2,182 thoughts on “Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman Evidence and Court Proceedings”

1. Thanks for the new blog. I’ll continue to follow.

   • And, thank you for visiting and commenting on the original posting!

   • 09/19/12 — Trayvon Martin’s DNA Not Found On George Zimmerman’s Gun
     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/trayvon-martins-dna-george-zimmerman-gun_n_1897356.html [In other words, TM was NOT grabbing the gun]

     09/07/12 — George Zimmerman Wants Trayvon Martin’s School Records
     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/07/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-school-records_n_1865409.html [This gem means that GZ’s team plans a “blame the victim” defense.]

     • It seems reasonable that if one needs to establish that a person was defending himself, that the other party had a history of violent behavior. As it has come out over and over again that TM’s history is less than spotless, establishing reasonable doubt on the notion that TM made no aggressive moves on GZ. Any reasonable defense lawyer would do the same. If he didn’t, he should be fired.

       • The prosecution is going to have a field day with this, a mention that the defense has gone over TM’s records and found only passive offenses they can’t use. As opposed to GZ, where there is much that is of use.

2. Thank you, NLME.

   The other was getting a bit hassle to load. It also makes sense to start a new chapter when we start to get this new evidence.

   The 7-11 one? should put paid to the nasty blogs that were taking a “he probably didn’t pay for the skittles so he was a thief so he was a thug therefore he attacked GZ for a fact” type of line.

   Video from the clubhouse should be VERRRY interesting (if it shows anything, in the damp dark). It should, minimally, tell us which direction TM arrived from, and possibly just maybe a glimpse of the truck.

   TM’s phone records from January can’t really see the relevance of, unless the seek to show he was visiting the estate on previous occasions.

   GZ’s from the hour or two before the shooting will be important.

   Unnamed witness?? useful if we also know where exactly they lived.

   Of course I don’t know how much they will actually show, as they’d not be able to include the phone numbers of innocent persons. Here we are eagerly waiting, and they’ll give us a piece of paper with a list of dates and everything else blacked out 😉

3. I think the SP has been collecting evidence and not doing much speculative work on paper, so they don’t have to hand over what they’re thinking.

   If we get the time TM left 711, then using the time of arrival to where GZ spotted him, we can calculate the distance TM should have traveled. The excess distance then, equals the time spent sheltering from the rain.

   If we get the time GZ started driving, then we can figure what time he should
   have arrived at the front gate, approximately. If these two times, do not coincide closely, then GZ should never have met TM at the gate without having laid in wait. You can get an idea by calculating GZ’s trip to the front gate, using an assumed time of 0:00 for a starting point. Then you can calculate TM’s travels, using 0:00 for leaving his house, 3 minutes in the store and 4 minutes sheltering. That should give a view of how closely or not, the times coincide, by making adjustment assumptions. The trick is, if you have to put in more time waiting places, to get TM’s path to coincide with GZ, Then you have to adjust the time GZ lays in waiting.

   Hopefully later we’ll get some actual times. But my feeling is, if GZ has to spend much time waiting for TM to arrive, he’s toast! He could not possibly know that anyone would be arriving in the rain, during his “trip to the store”, without some kind of notice from someone. Not a big thing in and of itself, but it shows that GZ was on patrol, not on his way to the store as he claims.

   • I said this on another blog and got jumped by Zimmerman followers. I said that he saw Trayvon before he made it into the neighborhood, Zimmerman followers want to say that Trayvon doubled back but Zimmerman himself said he was running toward the back entrance, this would mean he had to go all the way around in order to get the jump on Zimmerman. The Sanford police department has no idea where the truck was parked really because they admit they thought he was on foot so they never checked his vehicle and his wife moved his vehicle from the scene. I am like what? Anyway, Frank Taaffe told us in his many interviews that Zimmerman knew the neighborhood very well because he patrolled it. On the 911 he acted like he didn’t know where he was but yet told the 911 operator to have the police call him instead of him going and meeting them above the mailbox as he first said he would do.

     • Thats what gets me! How is it you know every resident that belongs in a 200 unit community but you need to get out of your vehicle to walk to street signs? He leaves Twin Trees to walk over to Retreat View….but he LIVES on Retreat View!

       • Someone mentioned that there’s a stop sign in the road with a street sign right on top of it. I guess GZ also forgot how to read? He’s spent 3 years driving past that stop sign.

       • GZ says he knew everyone. But most of the witnesses had never seen him. They learned what he looked like from the media reports like the rest of us did.

   • It will be interesting to see if the FBI or the SP got any videos of GZ actually at the store? That would mean he was on his way back. His wife moved his truck before the police could get to it, so the easy way is out; just have a look in there to see what was purchased.

     In any event, I definitely don’t have the feeling that GZ’s meet with TM was accidental. Because the “windows” in time are just too small to easily coincide without some sort of “massaging”.

4. the un named witness is probably deedee. Really looking forward to the videos too…and aussie….i don’t think a video of trayvon paying for his skittles will help, they will probably just say he must have used drug money or jumped a pregnant lady and stole her purse to purchase the goods, lol.

   • Right!!! Frank Taaffe was on last night Jane Valez Mitchell show last night on HLN and he had the audacity to say when they check Trayvons pockets he had 40.00 and a lighter, she said what does that have to do with it and he said that he doesn’t work so where did he get it from. That crap made me so made, as if he didn’t have parents to get it from. I watched it 5/18/12. Maybe you can find it.

     • Yes! Theresa, I was just going to mention this interview…what you left out is that “Laaffe” Taaffe was trying to imply that Trayvon some how managed to ‘rob’ someone for the $40 after leaving the store…His statement was that “well, we don’t know what happened from the time he left 7-11 and arrived in the complex, now do we?”

     • Frank Taaffe has a criminal record of his own. check orange county online domestic violence charges and 2 battery charges plus.

     • princss6

       Exactly. Frank has a sordid drug and criminal history in both Marion and Orange county. His sons, William and Vincent, also have a drug and criminal history.

       William was charged with a very similar crime as the confessed murderer. William was charged with aggravated assault of a LEO w/ a firearm, amongst other crimes he was charged with.

       And you probably guessed it, the charges were either dropped or adjudication withheld.

       Frank’s history is so bad, I just don’t understand why he keep inserting himself into the story. Interestingly, Judge Kenneth Lester was the presiding judge over one of his domestic violence cases.

       • I get the feeling that Taaffe wants to become Breitbart 2.0 (and not just because they look/talk sort of similar).

         The only way he does this is by talking to the media. A lot. And, of course, by defending conservative principles (such as gun rights).

         I think Taaffe knows he’s 100% in the clear (so, were there CB radios used to communicate Trayvon’s position?) regarding Trayvon’s shooting or else he would have shut up a long, long time ago.

         • Taaffe is arrogant and has proven to be a big idiot. They have made him think he is relevant by allowing him to go on tv and spew his bs everywhere. Zimmerman has a problem if he is his only friend. I think Taaffe played a big role in this murder even if he didn’t play a role exactly on that night. I see him influencing him to hate because it helped him feel powerful. Taaffe is an idiot to sit up and have such a criminal history and call Trayvon and other black males thugs. He solidifies the word thug. I bet he thinks he is gonna make out like a bandit with after this trial is over. Like I said before, I hope they interrogate him into bad health. I also believe that the defense wouldnt want him as their witness, I think the prosecution is the one who wants him as a witness and I imagine this is not gonba be pretty. If they wanted just a character witness why not use his brother who felt so strongly to go on media outlets and told his brothers story. Taaffe like I said is an idiot with an agenda. Typo alerts*** I am using my phone.

     • NLME,

       Are you referring to Andrew Breitbart who falsely accused Ms. Shirley Sherrod, USDA, of racist remarks? If so,then you know how that lie ended. His mouth and lies got him in some trouble.

       A white older couple immediately came to Ms. Sherrod’s defense. Ms. Sherrod filed a lawsuit against him. He died a few months ago.

       O’Mara probably cringes each time him and RZ, Sr. open their mouth.

       [ I think Taaffe knows he’s 100% in the clear ]

       In the clear about what? Please tell.

       • Meaning, there were no Zimmerman calls to/from him that night. If there were calls – let’s say around 7 pm – Taaffe definitely wouldn’t be talking.

         With Zimmerman’s vehicle supposedly never investigated, we’ll never know if the Neighborhood Watch used CB radios (unless somebody speaks up) and that’s a shame.

       • Yes, that Andew Breitbart. Watch Taaffe during any given sit-down interview – Nancy Grace cut him off awhile back – and then watch some of Breitbart’s old sit-down crap.

     • riisey,

       You hit it dead on the nail. I couldn’t agree more. Frank’s own son’s were thugs. Heck, Frank is a thug who knows all about thug life. Frank and his sons have all been arrested for drug use and all sorts of criminal activities.

       His son, William, bragged on his MySpace that he got a kick out of committing hate crimes, “They’re a blast”, he posted. William was also arrested for aggravated battery against a LEO, just like the confessed murderer. He also committed other crimes.

       I agree, I’m thinking he will most likely be a witness for the prosecution. Sure hope they bring up that voicemail message the confessed murderer left on his answering machine, and Frank’s daughter, Meredith’s message she posted on the internet.

     • Taaffe and anyone who believes him are jerks! Okay, let’s play his little game: How many people are out there walking that night, who TM could have robbed? The video at the store shows there wasn’t anyone in there the whole time TM was there. Worse yet, most people come and leave by car. So how well would a thief do on foot in such an area?

       Also, nobody seems to realize that one big reason that crime stats have dropped over the years is: (drum roll please) Nearly everyone has cell phones, with cameras to boot!!! Criminals aren’t so successful at escaping detection anymore, when their picture can be snapped, or the crime called in, right from the scene by anyone.

       I once saw a guy trying to rob someone at 41st street and 7th avenue. I found a payphone and called it in, the police took 1 minute and 45 seconds to respond, by car, the guy was caught! Today, in such areas we have beat cops, with feet on the ground. With plenty of cell phones around, they’d have gotten many more calls even faster. My guess is it took me at least 30 seconds to locate and get to the pay phone. I don’t know where the car came from, but they didn’t use sirens so they had to slow for intersections and lights, they were probably 7 or 8 blocks away when they got the call.

       Point is, where are these potential victims Taaffe is dreaming up? TM is alone on the streets walking, everyone zipping by in cars. But Taaffe doesn’t think, we can guess that he had a brain at birth, but there’s little evidence that it’s still around now. 😀

5. Yeh, thanks NLME. Free beer when you’re in Sacramento.

   I was hoping there were more security cams, but the club house cam should show when/where GZ drove in. With a little luck it may disprove the TM circling scenario.

   Frank Taaffe as a witness? So the initial call to GZ theory and Frank’s appearance at the scene of the crime theory are both alive and well.

   Finally, while it is likely TM ran past GZ’s truck to the T, both Frank Taaffe and Chief Bill Lee were relying in GZ’s story for their info. Unless GZ saw TM turn south at the T, GZ’s “he’s heading for the back gate” line would indicate a Twin Trees route.

   • I love free beer! And, I hear Sacramento is nice. I may take you up on that one of these years. Ha!

     At first, I thought it was interesting that Taaffe was named. But, so was Joe Oliver. I’m on a mobile device and can’t do much digging around but somebody please tell me Joe Oliver doesn’t reside in this gated community!!? The prosecutors may have just named everybody that’s already come out publicly regarding the shooting.

     “He’s running” is at the 2:08 mark of Zimmerman’s 911 call. So, that would mean Trayvon was about 10-20ish feet from the road if he took the sidewalk route instead of Twin Trees. If the sidewalk path was lit – which I only assume it was – Zimmerman would have been able to see Trayvon’s motions.

     • they could be witnesses just to clarify what zimmerman told them after the incident since they both went on tv claiming to have spoken to him.

       • Good call. Zimmeman’s brother didn’t get listed but he also admitted to Piers Morgan that he hadn’t spoken to his brother about the shooting.

   • Just wondering if you are Milo the mathematician.

6. It looks like the FBI will be proceeding with hate crimes charges:

   http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/

7. There’s a report out that Zimmerman is possibly going to be charged with a hate crime by the FBI at:

   http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/

   Things are percolating.

8. Did George Zimmerman commit reckless manslaughter and
   defend himself at the same time?

   I have been reading a lot about the Trayvon Martin shooting and have come up with a lot of thoughts about it so I have been documenting them for the last few weeks. This is all just theory but what the heck, everybody has one so why not me. We will know a lot more pretty soon but for now here is my theory………..I don’t write so good but I think pretty good….At least I think I do.

   Most people seem to focus on the 07:12 PM cell phone call from Trayvon Martin’s female friend (not girlfriend) but there were 2 other calls before that.

   Read the rest of Jim’s VERY well thought out analysis here:

   https://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-timing-comment-from-jim.pdf

   • Jim – thank you for the comment. This was a great breakdown of the event’s timing!

     I won’t speculate whether your analysis regarding the confrontation is accurate until more information is released but what you’ve described adds up quite well.

     There is one part I disagree with…

     “At this point I believe GZ did what he was told and did not follow TM.”

     If Zimmerman didn’t return to his car by heading due west when the 911 call ended, he continued following/harassing Trayvon even after being told to stop.

     

     A few questions…

     Do you have a link that mentions Zimmerman leaving his house at 7:09? It could have been earlier — 7/11 (Trayvon’s designation) is en route to Target (Zimmerman’s supposed destination) so they could have crossed paths earlier than 7:09. Unless, of course, there’s a source/link stating otherwise.

     Believe it or not, I’ve never seen Mary and her roommate’s account of the events. It may have been mentioned in the original posting’s comments but I missed it. Do you have link? I’m on a mobile device and unable to effectively search much.

     • Hi, N L M E
       I got my timeline from the link below.

       http://www.logarchism.com/2012/04/02/trayvon-martin-timeline-of-february-26/

       The 7:09 time is just speculative for a starting point, but GZ could of left a any time. It will be interasting to see when he really left his house.

       As far as GZ doing what he was told momentarily, it just seemed to me to be a good answer for lost time, but like I say it’s just a theory.

       The link for Mary and her roommate.

       Below is the teacher, listen to where she talks about the space between the time she first heard the voices and the next.

       • Cool — I saw the logarchism link before. I could be as right/wrong as that blog posting but I have a weird feeling they crossed paths as Zimmerman went to and/or came from Target. Now I’m trying to remember where I read he was running errands at Target. Things are blurring together…ha!

         As I understand it, there was a 3ish minute gap between Zimmerman’s 911 call ending and the shooting. It would have taken Zimmerman about a minute to walk back DUE WEST (so, not south of the T at all) to his vehicle:

         

         I wish he would have done that instead of continuing to stalk, harass, and prey upon an unarmed teenager. Or, did Zimmerman return to his vehicle and then head back to the scene of the eventual shooting? If so, why? This round trip would have taken about 2-3 minutes after the 911 call ended. I can’t wait until Zimmerman’s stories go public — they should be interesting.

         Thanks for the Anderson Cooper link regarding Mary and her roommate. I had read about – but not seen – this interview. I should start watching his show given the other interview you posted of the teacher’s account is also very interesting.

     • Hi, NLME

       ”
       “As I understand it, there was a 3ish minute gap between Zimmerman’s 911 call ending and the shooting. It would have taken Zimmerman about a minute to walk back DUE WEST (so, not south of the T at all) to his vehicle:”

       2 minutes and 41 seconds to be exact. NLME, if you look at the Taaffe video and stop it at 1:57 and look behind Taaffe you will see the down spout the water trickling sound was coming from and about 2 to 3 feet to the right you will see a path in the grass. It is on that corner I believe GZ stood and finished his call.

       7:13:39 PM-Dispatcher

       You’re welcome.

       NOTE: End of call. At this point I believe GZ did what he was told and did not follow TM. After all, he did not know where TM was and GZ seemed to be a little nerves about that. I think he just continued looking out in the dark trying to see some kind of movement with his cellphone in his hand waiting for the SPD to call.

       GZ would be able to see the SPD pull in from there (Lights) and still keep a eye out for TM, but it only lasted about 30 seconds or so and then he spotted TM by the teachers window and went after him. So give another 45 seconds or so to get to TM and exchange words and another near 90 seconds for the fight and that’s about got it.

       7:16:20 PM- Gun shot……………Again, just my theory.

       • Once Trayvon ran at the 2:08 mark, Zimmerman couldn’t have seen whether he went south at the T or continued east to Retreat View Circle since his parked vehicle was due west and there are houses to the south. So, it would make sense that he cleared the area. The slowing of wind interference, breath, pace, etc confirms this.

         

         Once Zimmerman cleared the area (this wasn’t even necessary as he was instructed to stop following the unarmed teen well before the T in the sidewalk) and while still on the phone with a 911 dispatcher, he should have returned to his parked vehicle due west and waited for police. Instead, he continued to stalk, harass, and prey upon Trayvon Martin leading up to the fatal shot. Therewithin lies the defense’s insurmountable hurdle.

     • Thank you Jim!
       This IS THE most compelling BELIEVABLE theory I’ve run across. I believe your theory is very near the truth. I hadn’t thought of GZ pulling the gun to apprehend TM till LE arrives. But when you add”You got me” it makes perfect sense to me. That utterance was out of place unless it happened as you described.
       I love this blog, I’ll be back.

       • Thank you for checking out the site and commenting!

         P.S. Just (briefly) checked out your blog as well…nice job examining the data dump. 🙂

   • I read it, if it were true, GZ would not be charged with 2nd degree homicide, it’d be 1st degree! It doesn’t matter what he intended to do, if he drew that gun, for any reason and pointed it at Trayvon, he was guilty of assault with a deadly weapon. He has no right to detain anyone, which is one of the reasons that the SPD tells NW’ers not to follow suspects!

     So, he draws his weapon, intending to hold TM for the police. But, under the law, he has no reason that justifies any such action. So, he’s also got kidnap, unlawful imprisonment to add to his assault with a deadly weapon! So, it’s into that mix, the commission of three felonies, that he pulls the trigger and now he gets 1st degree murder.

     GZ is a law student, he would know that if he drew his gun, without a good reason for doing so, he’d be committing a crime. So lose the gun threat and holding and try again. GZ has witnessed no crime, so he has no right to hold anyone. All he has is a hunch that TM doesn’t belong around there, because he doesn’t know him. Of course, there’s a lot of people in the community who GZ probably doesn’t know. Does he follow every stranger he sees walking around the estates? The record shows that he only follows the black ones, and even then, only if they’re way smaller and very much younger than himself.

     • Hi Lonnie,
       You’re exactly right about GZ knowing the law. Detaining someone is against the law which is probably why he won’t admit it happened.
       I’m feel like Jim. Fingerprints will tell the story..that’s IF GZ didn’t wipe them away.

     • GZ is not and never was a “law student”. He was an undergrad with a low gpa in sociology.

       • Yes KATE, but I never bothered to challenge or investigate this claim of his, because it does him more harm than good. But, now that you’ve posted the reality of it all, he was a “wannabee law student” as well as a “wannabee caped crusader”. The man is mentally ill.

9. There are reports now of Zimmerman’s injuries as assessed on the next day. The autopsy also indicates Martin’s knuckles were injured.

   • As I’ve said all along, I truly hope Trayvon kicked Zimmerman’s ass a little bit after being chased all over his neighborhood and before being fatally shot.

     • A quarter inch scratch just below the knuckle on the left ring finger. Could have been a grass cut when he fell with his hands under him.

       I like the way they dismiss, that a kid whose a very gentle soul. One who says please and thank you to store clerks, has lots of friends, none of whom are afraid of him, even in spite of his size. Gets painted as a thug boy when the need arises. That’s not real life for people his age. Everything I’ve been able to find, paints him as a very gentle person, not thuggish or dominant at all. Definitely not the type to throw punches at an adult. But, possibly developmentally delayed a bit, by, perhaps 3 or 4 years.

       So he played football. Like that means he’s some kind of linebacker? Com’on people, he’s a kid, kids play football for fun, not for stats for next years free agents bidding. He doesn’t have to have any skills to play football with other kids.

       As for the story about him slamming GZ’s head against the pavement, that would be more work than this kid has done in many a year. He just hasn’t the muscle to tangle with a 200 lb 28 yo male. It’s a sheer fantasy to think so.

       It’s more likely what NLME said, the kid was scared witless and didn’t know what to do. GZ had total control! The rest is a likely story made up to free GZ from blame. So when GZ cornered him, he “temporized” by asking the question “Why are you following me?” That’s not a challenge, it’s an attempt to make some sense of the situation, in the hopes that the follower isn’t really ill intended, has a good reason and will answer.

       GZ had no good reason and was ill intended! If the SPD had encountered him there, with this kid, and his gun in it’s holster. GZ would have been humiliated by having his Neighborhood Watch Command taken away from him.

       When TM’s parents came home and heard what happened, they’d be at the next Association meeting asking some serious questions. Why did GZ follow? Why was he armed? Why didn’t he heed the advice of the 911 operator? Why didn’t he identify himself? Is this the kid you were accusing of being a criminal? Why? GZ would have no good answers, all he could do would be to stutter and stammer and splutter. He’d be removed from NW as a loose cannon who would not follow orders. Therefore be likely to cast the entire program into doubt, if not attract a lawsuit.

       As it is the family now has a right to know how the SPD, who admitted to setting up this program, managed it! Who was responsible for supervision?
       Because Mr. Taaffe claims to have gone on patrols, in the area under GZ’s supervision as “Commander”, it begs the question, who told him he was qualified to go on patrols? Did anyone ask him? Did anyone tell him what the rules were? We know that GZ knew the rules, why did he break them all? Could it be that he did so, because he felt there was no one to answer to? There’s probably a good dollop of SPD responsibility here.

     • Lonnie,

       Thank you for pointing out that it was only 1/4 scratch, on his ring finger nonetheless. I get them at least 3x per week. He could have scratched himself on a household garbage can, playing sports, anything.

       You’re right about his character. His teacher said he got A’s and B’s and majored in cheerfulness. According to his mom, when he had to change schools to be closer to their new home, the teachers begged him to stay because he was such an agreeable and likable child.

       How many teenagers, especially boys, really like being kissed by their parents? The picture of his dad hugging and kissing him tells me they were both gentle and affectionate people.

       Although his uncle, who’s a paraplegic, disabled veteran, has nursing care, Trayvon enjoyed assisting in his care and bringing him meals according to the family. He was the inspiration for Trayvon wanting to study aviation, a career his uncle once had before he became disabled.

       According to the autopsy report Trayvon was 5’11” and weighed 158 lbs, A STRING BEAN. So there you have it, those of you still ignoring the facts and still looking for this 6’3″ 250lb. linebacker.

       The bottom line is, the confessed murderer should have stayed in his car or gone back to his home to wait for the police.

   • the report was from the next day. Why didn’t they insist on a report that night since someone was killed. What about forensics? If my ass was on the block because i killed someone i would make sure i was sporting injuries for the doctor the next day too.

     • Exactly! This Zimmerman story is just so, so ridiculous.

       • Most especially since the wounds GZ had, were a critical part of his self defense claims. As such they are not merely injuries to be poo-pooed at. But they are substantial evidence of claims being made in a homicide case. To refuse to have them documented, as if they were so inconsequential as to be of no probative value at all, is insane!

         Remember how ballistic the public went when they believed there was no evidence of any wounds? So, then, why is this guy who has taken law courses and passed, thinking that a critical part of the evidence — supporting his claims, that he was being so badly beaten that he feared for his life — being so casually treated by himself?

         The only answer I can come up with is, he did not believe that his injuries, if examined professionally, would support his story that they were the result, of an attack, sufficient to make him fear for his life. A view that is more substantially supported by his own lack of reciprocal defensive reactions.

         • It was said that Zimmerman turned down a trip to the Emergency Room while at the shooting scene. So, it was a voluntary trip. Meaning, the injuries weren’t remotely life threatening.

           Again, if the EMT responders thought Zimmerman had something as “small” as a concussion, the police questioning would have occurred at the ER.

     • Jo,

       Ofc. Smith makes sure he goes out of the way to CYA. I still have suspicions about him though.

       THE MIAMI HERALD MEDIA DUMP 183 PAGES (page 15 of 18, 15 of 183 pages)

       Click to access aOYtz.So.56.pdf

       REPORT DATE: 3/1/2012
       REPORTER: TIMOTHY SMITH

       After being treated on the scene by SFD for his injuries, the confessed murderer was given the opportunity by SFD to be transported to the hospital in order to have his injuries examined by doctor. HE DECLINED.

       While enroute to SPD he complained that his head hurt and he felt a little light headed. I asked him if he would like to go to the hospital. He stated he WASN’T SURE WHAT HE WANTED TO DO. I advised him that it was his choice, and I would drive him to the hospital. HE DECLINED ONCE AGAIN TO BE TAKEN TO CENTRAL FLORIDA REGIONAL.

       Once I arrived at SPD with him, he was placed in an interview room. He was provided with tissues and a bottle of water. He was asked once again, if he felt the need to go to the hospital, or if he wanted SFD to come back out to take another look at him. HE DECLINED, STATED, “I THINK I’LL BE OK.”

       I kept a constant watch on him through a 2 way mirrored glass. At no point did he exhibit any behaviors that warranted my concern for immediate medical attention.’

       I also made contact with him every 15-20 minutes (approximately) to check his status, or to see if he had any requests. During my contact with him, he only requested more tissues, more water, and to go to the bathroom. HE DID NOT MAKE ANY MORE COMPLAINTS ABOUT BEING LIGHT HEADED.

   • Broken skin on knuckles probably came from Trayvon Martin’s body being rolled over by Zimmerman after the shooting — hands under his body scraping up against the ground/rocks/whatever. Does one ordinarily break the skin of their knuckles when punching? I would expect bruising, but not necessarily broken skin.

     • I’ve definitely broken skin on my knuckles in the few fist fights I’ve been lured into. I’ve been fortunate to escape with only sore wrists and broken skin on my knuckles though.

     • @NLME –

       I just did a test punch and only got bruising, no broken skin. Guess I’m thick skinned or something. 😉

       • Punch somebody hard a few times above the shoulders – preferably a person that has some facial stubble and/or short hair – and they should open right up for you. 🙂

     • Seems to me that what we need to focus on next is, was TM’s body moved and why? We have witnesses saying that TM was on the bottom, the wound, being straight ahead and probably higher than where GZ would hit if they were both standing, probably means GZ was either standing over TM, when he shot him, or straddling him on the ground when he fired the shot.

       But, if GZ was straddling TM on the ground when he took the shot, GZ would have to be leaning forward, to make the barrel level and straight, perpendicular to TM’s chest. Otherwise the shot would be lower or have an upwards path.

       Try it: Sit in a chair holding a gun like article and point it downwards. Now you will see that your wrists don’t bend enough, so that the barrel points straight down easily. Now, as you lean forward you’ll see that the barrel begins to straighten out on a line perpendicular to the ground.

       So, is he leaning forward and saying “you’re gonna die tonight” to TM when he fires??? BUT WAIT!!!
       Hells bells… Witnesses see him on TM’s back?
       What the hell is going on here?

       Shot by a shorter man, high on his chest, in a straight through angle?
       The angle should be upwards, no?
       Then TM has to be on the ground with GZ either standing over him, or
       down and straddling him.

       So, who rolled the body over on his stomach with his hands under him?

       GZ, first pretends that he shot TM while TM and him were standing:
       “He turned around and fell down”.

       Next GZ says he took the shot while TM was straddling him on the ground.
       But then, TM could not turn around and fall down with his hands under him.
       If anything, from that position, he’d fall forward on top of GZ, and GZ would then have to roll out from under him, most likely leaving TM on his back. If so, then how does any witness see GZ on TM’s back pressing down?

       The only thing that’s clear is, the body has been moved! The only reason it could have been moved for, is to try to cover up what really happened.
       What really happened had to be covered up, because it’s incriminating.

       That’s what we can deduce from the evidence so far.

   • The report of Trayvon Martin having injured knuckles ended up being incorrect.

     • Well it appears now that Jon’s testimony has become *karate-style-chops* (“throwing mixed-martial-arts-style punches”) to Zimmerman now instead of the plain old one-two punches. Which came first, the hole in the evidence or the testimony. One can only wonder.

       • I think – but could be wrong – mixed martial arts is the cage sport thing where they get each other to submit.

10. MSNBC reports that GZ saw a doctor the day after the shooting, and the doc reported a broken nose and two black eyes, as well as 2 head wounds and a back injury.

    How quickly do black eyes develop after a broken nose?

    • I’m definitely looking forward to seeing more crime scene/police station photos of Zimmerman’s face/head since the ambulance coming to pick him up was called off and there was no blood or latex gloves seen in the previously released Sanford PD surveillance video.

    • exactly, surely the black eyes would have developed by the time he left the station? I wonder if they swabbed his head for debri and dna etc..

    • The 2 head wounds are of significance to me b/c I believe they were described as vertical in one article. and the pix taken 3 min afterwards were more horizontal-slant. blacks eyes can vary by individual.

      • Let me know if you can find a link stating Zimmerman’s head wounds were originally reported as being more vertical than horizontal.

        I’d search but I’m on a mobile device until later tonight. Such a link and the comment’s source would be super interesting.

11. (Excellent discussion, btw… I can’t believe I read the whooooooooole thing!)

    • I feel so bad for your eyes right now. 🙂

      Thanks for visiting and adding a comment!

12. Here comes the strategic release of evidence piecemeal. O’Mara’s strategy to benefit the defense. And let’s guess, he’ll block the release of any evidence that doesn’t support his clients defense. I too think TM had a right to stand his ground. Apparently, the only one who seemed to be fighting for his life was TM. If this was the life and death situation that GZ claims, he certainly never fought like it. In my mind that gun came out rather quickly, because he never uses his hands even in defense.

    • From what I’ve read/heard the witnesses say, it was more of a wrestling match than a fight. It’s a tough sport but I’ve never heard of a wrestler dying at the hands of his opponent.

    • Ooooo… just thought of something. That report said nothing about Zimmerman having lacerations on his knuckles or any kind of defensive wounds, even though it was detailed enough to include low-back pain.

      • Zimmerman definitely knew how self defense laws worked given the fact that he carried a concealed weapon, both of his parents worked in the judicial system, and he wanted to be a cop but couldn’t make the cut.

        That said, while it’s natural to think a person fighting for their life would definitely use their hands/knuckles like Trayvon apparently did, Zimmerman figured all he had to do was take a few punches (as applicable), feel vulnerable during a wrestling match, and fire a shot that made sure the “f_cking coon” wouldn’t get away this time.

        The problem: You can’t be doing something illegal like stalk, harass, prey upon, etc. a neighbor and have self defense cover your ass. Zimmerman had it about 90% figured out…all the way down to saying it was him screaming for help when that apparently wasn’t the case.

13. Well, , none of this is anything new to the SP, who decided that filing charges was in order. So, without knowing if, how and when this info, fits into the scheme of things, we can only suspect that O’Mara is selectively releasing info, to make the question of guilt more controversial, thereby giving hope to GZ’s supporters and causing them to give more. O’Mara should have stayed “pro bono”, not focused on raising money, and leave that matter to the court to decide. Now, his own credibility is called into question, by the selective release of the evidence. Obviously, now that he’s no longer pro bono, he has an interest in getting paid as much as he possibly can get.

    In any event, we still don’t know, for example, if “white tee shirt” wasn’t on top of GZ administering these injuries. We don’t know what the injuries to TM’s hands were, or how he came by them. All we have is the suggested!

    Even so, even if TM did attack GZ, this case will probably turn on the legality of his provocative actions. It’s a pretty high barrier for GZ to climb, since he, unlike an “ordinary citizen”, had a very specific set of rules that he should have followed. Rules that the SPD instructed him to follow, and that the 911 operator attempted to remind him of. Instead, GZ weaves a narrative, that attempts to build in reasons that his conduct that day, should be excused from those rules.

    To my mind, the only thing that could possibly excuse him from the rules he had been given, would be if he had actually witnessed a serious crime. If he knew, for example, that he was following someone, who had actually committed a rape, burglary, assault, was illegally in possession of a weapon and was intending to harm someone. But GZ can know none of these things.
    All he has, as a reason for assaulting TM (and it was an assault, to call the police on him, even if it might have been justified, it was even more of an assault to have followed TM). To think anything else, would be to give anyone the right to follow anyone, without any good reason, other than to make the claim that they thought that person was suspicious.

    The police need “probable cause” for a reason, otherwise we’d all be subject to whatever invasion of our privacy, the police wanted to visit on us, at any time and for any reason. We clearly don’t give the Police that kind of authority! GZ, as a “neighborhood watcher” clearly has even less authority than the police. Which is why his Police training materials restricts him.

    His problem will be to justify to a jury, why these restrictions placed on him, should not apply. I do not believe that him losing sight of TM, is reason enough for him to leave his car. Because that leaves him chasing a person, without any good and sufficient reason for doing so. The police, when they received GZ’s report, already knew that the suspect could run, they deal with such things all the time, yet they did not believe that it warranted, having GZ follow! GZ is therefore responsible for whatever occurred after that. Thus, his failure to attempt to end hostilities by identifying himself comes into play. The very same artifact he attempts to use against the police in an earlier encounter.

14. Yes, and I hope that the mortician took photos of TM to back up his claims that there were no injuries visible to him, that TM had engaged in any fighting.
    Because his word is now being called in to question.

    • Broken skin on the knuckles seems weird to me. No mention of bruising in the media. I hope the mortician testifies, too.

15. I note that he doesn’t release the “wound path” evidence from the gunshot. Which would be even more probative than any evidence regarding the wounds GZ may have suffered.

    The evidence of GZ’s wounds, is only useable in comparison to the GZ delivered narrative of the fight. It is not the “break point” evidence needed here, and it won’t be a break point at the trial. It will only go to witness credibility, since it wasn’t properly “collected”. There should have been an examination and photos made at the scene, by people, at least regularly assigned to such duties. SPD may not have a crime lab, but they certainly do have cameras and people who know how to use them. Why such a person was not dispatched immediately to a homicide scene is beyond my understanding.

    • In the ABC video report at http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/trayvon-martin-murder-trial-zimmermans-medical-report-shows-16357205, you can see in the vid at 1:20 that the report by Zimmerman’s family doctor says “NO SUTURES NEEDED” on the scalp lacerations and to “continue to clean with soap and water.”

      The family doctor also told Zimmerman to see his psychologist for evaluation. The family doctor also discussed with Zimmerman what would be the “red flag symptoms that would warrant imaging.”

      Regarding the “closed fracture” the media is hyping, the family doctor’s report actually says at 1:10 that “we discussed that it is LIKELY broken but does not appear to have septal deviation.” Also note that the family doc advised Zimmerman to see EMT and Zimmerman refused.

      • NLME’s past speculation appears to be confirmed, the shot was fired while both of them were standing. Meaning as NLME has said, the physical part of the altercation was over, GZ was no longer under attack. They had to have gotten up off the ground, if they had been down there before. But now, it seems to me, that GZ has made an effort to munge the evidence, by getting down on the ground in time to be witnessed there. I have a very bad feeling that GZ’s wounds didn’t come from any fight with TM.

        He had to have fired standing, where, at very close range, his elbows would need to move back past his body, or else he’d have to extend his arms, to get the gun close to TM’s body. You can’t extend your arms, and still aim a weapon, anywhere near the level, at a person straddling your body. Your wrists won’t bend enough to allow it. In fact the restrictions are such, you’re most likely to fire with a left to right, or right to left aim, or upwards. But not anywhere near straight head, with a wound path that goes only a very few degrees right or left and/or up or down. You only get the required range of motion if you and the victim are both standing.

        This may be what the SP is looking at and why the charges were filed.

        • I DEFINITELY don’t disagree with your comment but could the shot have been fired while Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon’s pinned down body? I imagine it could – I just wrestled some freaking pillows because my reluctant family member won’t be part of another test. Ha!

      • According to the CBS news report I just saw, the gun powder residue/stippling on Trayvon indicated that the gun was no more than 18 inches away when it went off.

      • Headline:

        “DOCTOR PRESCRIBES LIFE THREATENING GEORGE ZIMMERMAN INJURIES BE TREATED WITH SOAP AND WATER!”

        I must have missed this shocker!

        The NYT does a splendid job of trying to clean up the GZ bio, to bad nobody in their right mind believes in the MSM anymore! Remember
        how they tried to tell us that wmd’s could be mfg’d in the back of a tractor trailer? Or that you could make a fleet of UAV’s in a small desert bound shack?

        If I’m elected I’ll pass a law that requires the MSM reporters, commentators and their “experts” to wear face paint, red wigs and size 40 shoes! 😀

16. Murder mysteries, novels and tee vee shows are rife with depictions of how self made wounds can be made to bolster false claims of injury, needed to escape blame. You’d certainly think that police authorities would be aware of this sort of thing, and seek to build into their procedures, the means to quickly document the findings discovered at homicide crime scenes. But, apparently not, eh? What gives?

    • A quick 9 mm pistol whip to the back of the head and one to the face could probably cause those injuries. I hope the photographs on the scene are detailed.

      Again, I understand the defense is trying to win over public perception by leaking this info but I don’t get it. A broken nose, black eyes, and cut to the head don’t matter. It was well known Zimmerman and Martin had a fist fight/wrestling match.

      • Plus a total of 4 witnesses say the police gave a different account or tried to get them to modify their statements as to what they witnessed. Regarding the Selma and Mary, the police came out publicly against them attempting to discredit their version of what transpired.

      • Hmmm… Now that I think about it, GZ didn’t have a gun in his hand when witnesses saw him on TM’s back.

        Could he have passed the weapon to John to “touch him up a bit”?
        John wipes it and drops it on the ground, GZ picks it up and holsters it.
        Presto, no GZ fingerprints on the trigger.

        Still wondering where GZ’s wounds came from.

      • Actually, I don’t think anyone gave an account of seeing Zimmerman’s hands. The closest evidence regarding Zimmerman’s hand movements are given by Mary and Selma (the two witnesses the police came out publicly against as the police attempted to discredit them and what they witnessed). Mary repeatedly said in 3 interviews with the police and media that she thought Zimmerman was checking Trayvon Martin’s pulse. How do you check pulse without using a person’s arms (presumably hands are attached, so SOMETHING made Selma and Mary think pulse-check)? Mary and Selma go on to say that Trayvon Martin was the skinny kid and there was no fighting before the shot and Zimmerman altered the crime scene. I think listening to all the 9-1-1 calls confirms that there was no fighting at the time of the shot. The witnesses are all scared. Mary and Selma expressed that they, too, were scared to give testimony.

        All of the above testimony from Mary and Selma was prior to this case going national or international. Eventually, they went on TV news — possibly to make sure if anything mysteriously happened to them, at least their story would make it out there in the national news.

        Witness 13, the picture taker has more pictures we may not have yet seen. Witness 13, however, does confirm that Zimmerman had walked away from Trayvon Martin’s body all the way back to the sidewalk Tee (where the so-called evidence Zimmerman thinks supports his story was possibly *dropped* just before the police arrived). This all occurred before the police took pictures, labeled evidenced, etc. This all occurred *after* witness 6 (John) saw Trayvon Martin’s body lying dead on the ground in a sprawled out position and *after* Mary and Selma saw Zimmerman straddling Trayvon Martin’s body after shooting himi. Witness 13 also confirms that Zimmerman moved to a crouched down position near/on the sidewalk after confirming blood was adrip; I think that Zimmerman did this to finalize his crime scene tampering by dripping a little blood near the Tee.

      • I think the “not normal” events Selma and Mary saw answers the trigger wipe possibility. They say Zimmerman’s actions while on top of Trayvon Martin’s dead body led them to believe Zimmerman was checking Trayvon Martin’s pulse (checking/moving Trayvon Martin’s arms). This is probably how Trayvon Martin’s hands end up in the inexplicable position under Trayvon Martin’s own body by the time the police arrived. Mary and Selma also say Zimmerman was pressing into Trayvon Martin’s back (I think he was checking for an exit wound to know which way to alter evidence). Mary and Selma also say George Zimmerman snapped at them when they asked if everything was ok and after the 3rd time, he responded with “call the police”. Moments later, Witness 13 says George told him he just got off the phone with the police as Witness 13 asked if he should call the police when he saw George Zimmerman walking away from the crime scene and the body towards the Tee in the sidewalk. Witness 13 also asked about whether George Zimmerman used the 40 or the 9 after Zimmerman told Witness 13 that he had just killed Trayvon Martin in self-defense.

        Why had George Zimmerman left the crime scene and where would he have gone had Witness 13 not stopped him?

    • Those two women who witnessed George Zimmerman’s actions after the shot saw Zimmerman with his hands on his head. Selma Mora Lamilla and Mary Cutcher. The police came out publicly discrediting them. Wonder why the police would do something like that.

      • Unfortunately all I can offer is (hopefully) reasonable speculations to think about. I’d have to put odd protest down to guilty knowledge, thus, denial that GZ’s hands were on his head, would be an attempt to deflect the possibility that he could have injured himself at that time. Easy enough to conceal a small sharp piece of metal or razor blade, to be discarded and/or perhaps recovered unnoticed later by a cohort.

        Speculations aren’t truth, all they do is give one directions to look for more evidence. Did GZ actually create NW “trees”? I can’t say, there is some evidence/testimony that appears to be the result of such an effort. Like Taaffe saying that he has gone out on patrols. My guess is that, as NW Captain, GZ would certainly want phone notice from Taaffe of events in the “hood”, and, of course, there are almost always other wanabee’s around, so they too would likely add themselves to any tree, as a way to participate in some way.

        All too often, people with time on their hands, develop conspiracies about and around the projects that bring them together. So, I can easily imagine these people having confabs where, “If this happened then I’d do that, say this, swear in your defense… etc.”, holds sway. Taaffe’s actions after the shooting, seem to be the product of exactly that kind of discussion having taken place between the members in the past. Now, of course, the “order of the day”, would be to deny and cover up any kind of past discourse. Only community anecdote could reveal such a possibility. Phone records might indicate something as well.

17. I think the callS with DeeDee are going to sink Zimmerman. Even if she conflates what was said within each individual call, the totality of what she has said corroborates Zimmerman’s account that Trayvon Martin ran away from Zimmerman and confirms Trayvon Martin felt threatened at one point. DeeDee also speaks to Trayvon Martin’s mindset after Trayvon Martin felt he had escaped. DeeDee said Trayvon Martin told her he thought he had lost the guy.

    I think Trayvon Martin is just chilling near his back porch as he continues to chat up his girlfriend. Brandy Green said as much early on. She said that Trayvon Martin was just sitting on the back porch.

    In any event, this seems to establish two separate incidents in which Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin. I think that’s when the following became stalking — Zimmerman did this stalking with a loaded gun, mind you.

    Since Trayvon Martin thought he’d lost the guy and probably thought he had overreacted about the weirdo in the car, he’s now just chilling on the phone with his girlfriend until the weirdo is right behind him AGAIN!

    Look at the Taaffe video again. Notice what you see at 1:49 in the video. That’s a long way from the Tee and this is where Zimmerman supposedly turned around to head back to his car according to Taaffe.

    • Wow – INTERESTING OBSERVATION! Here’s the screenshot…

      https://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/way-south-of-the-t.jpg

      • Thanks for the screen grab from the vid. For perspective on the tree locations, see slide 6 of the NYT interactive map here: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

        As an aside, I also wonder if there is another poop station at the other end. That would change everything.

      • NYT has a new article with a very nice, clear picture of the back yards.

        Plus new info about the evidence collected.

    • How would Brandi know he was sitting on the back porch? I know she said that, but she wasn’t even home. I think she remembers the last time she saw him and is trying to tie that with his being dead. It couldn’t have anything to do with what happened during those critical minutes unless Chad actually was home and saw Trayvon on the porch. But why didn’t Chad tell Tracy and Brandi that Trayvon never returned from the store?.

      • Brandy Green may very well know Travon Martin’s habits while staying at her home. Brandy Green may have experienced not being able to get Chad to respond to the door bell or knocks also. Maybe Chad has a history of NOT hearing door bells. Maybe Chad plays drums in the house, uses earphones to watch NetFlix movies or his room is soundproofed. I don’t know. All I know is that Brandy Green said Trayvon Martin was sitting on the porch.

        I believe Trayvon Martin was chilling on the phone after he thought he had “lost the guy” and there’s evidence to back that up despite geographically challenged lawyers and newsers that give only half the story and demonstrate their lack of common sense by showing half a map.

        • This ended up being quite the call, eh?

18. Why did Brandy Green say Trayvon Martin was on his back porch when this thing was first reported?

    Notice the doggie can right beside the Tee near the crime scene in this vid:

    http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/05/only-on-7-what-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-might-have-seen-that-night-75899.html

    But in Taaffe’s vid (at the 1:49 mark), Taaffe is w-a-a-a-y down the path and you can tell because the doggie can is at least 5 houses down and you can see two trees on the left of Taffe (which is on the side where the body was found) and the doggy poop station on the right of Taffe.

    Looking at the google map, the first place two trees could be seen planted that close together on that side of the path is behind the second set of townhouses.

    • You’re absolutely right! He’s way down the interior path for about 6 seconds. Then they start filming again at the T. He’s showing that GZ was way down the interior pathway.

    • I’ve often wondered about that “porch” statement. The original story was very confused, quoting TM’s “mother Tracy Martin” when that is his father’s name and they were quoting Brandy Green.

      Anyway she said “on the porch” not on “our” porch.

      What I wondered was, how would she know where he was sitting? she wasn’t there. At the time it seemed to me almost a fabrication by the newspaper, considering how wrong they got the rest of it. Was she just taking a guess? did she really say that at all?

      Where was TM’s phone found? (I read somewhere his pockets contained some change, no receipt for the purchase and no keys).

      Where was the skittles and tea found?

      That’s the sort of thing the police would/should look at, if truly trying to ascertain how/where a fight started. Did they?

      Cancelling the ambulance I don’t think is a big issue. There was one at the scene already and it was not needed, as one victim was dead already. The other injured person was given first aid at the scene and didn’t require/ask for transport.

      I don’t know the situation in Sanford, or the USA generally, but here they send a special van for a dead body, they don’t take them in the emergency ambulance.

      • The canceling of the 2nd ambulance is absolutely huge. Nobody away from the scene knew Trayvon was dead. In fact, the EMT dispatchers were actively trying to get him help via a ground or air ambulance.

        Once the responding officers and/or EMTs found Zimmerman’s injuries to be minor, they canceled his ambulance and took him into the Police Department for questioning (rather than the Emergency Room). If there was absolutely any chance he suffered something as “small” as a concussion, he would have been questioned at the ER.

      • The receipt for purchase of the Skittles and tea were reported early on, were attested to at the bond hearing and now video evidence of the transaction has been given to O’mara.

      • Brandy Green’s words were “He walked to the store. He was on his way back home. I’m living down here (gestures). He was sitting out on the porch and this man killed him.”

        Of course she’s talking about her own porch. Otherwise she would have said my friend’s porch, or his porch or her porch, etc.

      • Very good point, where were the Iced Tea and Skittles found? They were mentioned very early on, that would leave us to believe that they were found at the location near where TM was found dead. Obviously the police nor GZ knew where TM was living back then. So, if they weren’t there, they’d not know to look for them, or if found some distance away, they’d not have known they were connected to these events.

        If TM, for instance, had made it to his back porch, the rational thing to do would be to put this stuff down, to free the hands, if he were planning to confront GZ.

        But, if you’re hiding from a follower and you plan to confront him, again you put things down to free up your hands while you have the opportunity.

        Where were the skittles and iced tea when Trayvon supposedly first struck GZ by surprise? He could probably put the skittles in the pocket of the hoodie, but I don’t think the iced tea can would fit.

        Anyway, I think public pressure is having an effect on O’Mara, whose plans to selectively release evidence/data is coming to an end, because it’s eroding his credibility.

      • @Lonnie –

        It appears Trayvon Martin’s belongings and the rest of the evidence was tampered with prior to the SPD’s arrival on scene. Check Selma’s, Mary’s and Witness 13’s statements (both taped and written) again.

        • Yes, I’ve read that… The alteration of the crime scene by GZ means
          that the blood evidence on TM’s sleeves is gone! It, and lots of other
          evidence, that might have been of use to the defense, is now questionable!

          However, the fact that the defendant altered the crime scene is incriminating.
          He cannot now point to any of the physical evidence, and offer any explanation of it that can be relied upon. Only the things that could not be altered can stand.

19. ( We’ve run out of reply space again).

    @ CommonSense,

    okay, he was killed a long way from their porch. Eight or 10 houses away.

    What made her think he was sitting on the porch?

    Were his purchases found there? was he seen there? by Chad perhaps? in which case wouldn’t Chad have seen more (eg a chase or a fight?) and told the adults when they returned home from their dinner?

    Or is she assuming, based perhaps on his going out there earlier, eg to have privacy for his girlfriend-phone calls? maybe he was out there when they left to go to that restaurant (7-ish is a reasonable time for that, it can’t have been very much earlier).

    Of course if he ran, then felt safe (“lost him”) and sat down to finish his conversation, and then GZ comes around the corner and sees the suspicious *** ***** ***hole on somebody’s PORCH…… well he’s clearly got to be planning to break in there, eh?

    So this “porch” business is either a mistaken assumption, or a very big issue. Strange it was never mentioned again after that one interview.

    • I think it’s going to be a big issue. It’s probably a habit of Trayvon to sit on Brandy Green’s porch and chat on the phone. It’s typical teenager behavior. I also read that Brandy Green works at a juvenile detention center or something along those lines. She’s probably very familiar with teen behavior if so.

    • Also.. I don’t think the confrontation started 8-10 houses away. I do think the killing took place at least 10 houses away, possibly 12 houses away.

    • Do we know for sure that Trayvon had a hoodie on when he was shot? If not – I cant remember everything the witnesses said – was the hoodie on the porch?

      I do remember – obviously – the white T-shirt witness statement. It gets awfully hot running from a creepy dude in 60ish degrees weather with a hoodie on.

      • Jon (I think) said he saw gunpowder on the hoodie, so Trayvon Martin still had it on him or with him.

        On a side note, the picture of Zimmerman with what appears to be a cell phone at his ear with a bloodied scalp shows a dark grayish something on the ground. I think that portion of the picture could very well be Travon Martin’s body in his “dark gray hoodie” not yet covered in tarp.

        • The dark grayish thing directly to the right of his phone in this picture?

          http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/2012/04/20/news/web_photos/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain082734–525×275.jpg

          Not in a snarky tone, but, I think that’s Zimmerman’s arm/sleeve.

      • High humidity plus exertion equals lots of sweat.

      • The dark gray thing on the right is not Zimmerman’s jacket since his sleeves on that particular jacket are red. Look at the police video shown by abc. In the video at the police station, Zimmerman’s jacket sleeves are red. I think Zimmerman was on the phone right after he killed Trayvon Martin and whoever took the picture may have captured Trayvon’s hoodie on the ground in the picture.

        • Black/Dark grey shoulders. Black/Dark grey sides. I can’t see with 100% certainty what color of fabric is near Zimmerman’s wrists but it looks like the sleeve is 100% red from elbow down.

          If that’s the case, there is definitely something black/grey in the picture – directly to the right of the phone and below the red patch that is seen – that should be red instead of dark grey/black. Interesting observation.

          I assume this was already pointed out. My bad. Worth the recap though.

      • I was plain ole wrong about the sleeves. The new, clearer, pics released with the evidence dump shows the jacket sleeves are two-toned with red on one part and grey on the other.

20. While watching Taaffe at the 1:47-1:49 mark on the above video, there is a further confirmation that Zimmerman went way down that dogpath. While explaining how George headed back to the truck, he is gesturing expansively up the path and off to the left. This is the way back to the truck, he says. The T and doggy-poo container in the far background have to be where Taaffe then goes on to claim the shooting happened, broadcast next in the video. Just how far up that dog path did GZ pursue TM?

21. @ Jim, I like your theory; except between 7:11 & 7:12p tray was hanging up with the 6:54 incoming. deedee’s 7:04 which lasted a min went to voice mail. so, then he accepted a 7:12 call from her which last approx 4 min. tray could not have lost connect with her at 7:11. check it.

    • @ Jim, tray could have called her and she him & both lines were tied up. normal biz during storm too. anyway plus or minus a minute is missing here, so we have to wait for more official records. a fight will ensue over the phone records getting in b4hd for both sides. just a thought.

      @ NLME, ty much. Keeping my eyeballs in.

22. I find this whole thing beyond belief. If Zimmerman was unarmed and the result of the conflict was only what we know… injuries to Martin’s hands and Zimmerman’s face and head, would we be seeking to forgive Martin or would we find Martin at fault? This is an important question because we are making the issue that a gun was used. This is an entire situaiton with causes and effects. A neighborhood watchman was within his rights to question why that person was out and about. Is that deniable? It’s the function of neighborhood watches.

    What is also undeniable is that the wounds suffered by Martin were self-inflicted and the obvious result of his assaulting another person. It is also undeniable that it occurred prior to Martin being shot. There has been no evidence that Zimmerman did anything outside of the duties of neighborhood watch to provoke any action from Martin. That Zimmerman may or may not have followed Martin is irrelevant because under circumstances where no gun was used it would have come down to the question of who threw the first punch. And in this case, who threw repeated blows which were unanswered by the victim of the initial attack.

    And in any and every situation where one-sided assaults of this sort occur, the blame is always place on the one doing the assault. That person is undeniably Martin.

    Laying aside the question of Zimmerman’s actions and whether or not they were justifiable, let’s first admit that Martin’s actions, under no reasonable circumstances would be considered acceptable or justifiable. And if you believe otherwise, I would be very interested to know why.

    It could be that Zimmerman thought he was in a superior position to Martin’s. Morally, Zimmerman must have felt superior. It was his job. Physically, it’s hard to guess one way or the other, but even if he did, it became very evident that Martin was more than capable of overwhelming Zimmerman having knocked him to the ground and was punching and beating his head against concrete.

    You can draw maps about routes and stuff like that all day long but it changes nothing of the actions of the people involved took. And the physical assaults, by the evidence, started with Martin as the aggressor.

    The news and many others are trying very, very hard to turn this into something it isn’t. Zimmerman is no racist. Zimmerman’s background and associations and even volunteer services paint a picture which opposes this view. The death was not racially motivated. If it were, Zimmerman wouldn’t have given Martin a chance to attack.

    Nothing else can explain why Zimmerman’s face and head were wounded while Martin’s hands displayed wounds consistant with being the attacker. And surely no one is suggesting that Zimmerman assaulted Martin with his face targeting his hands and then fell down repeatedly hitting his head on concrete.

    But let’s say that Martin was scared. That his reaction was one not unlike that of a cornered victim. Is it justifiable? I can’t imagine how. Even if Zimmerman was verbally assaulting Martin in the worst possible ways; even if Zimmerman was intimidating and threatening Martin, was physical violence by Martin against Zimmerman justifiable?

    Given the wound evidence we know about, even under the worst imaginable conditions where Zimmerman was the devil himself, can anyone justify what Martin had done? Is violent assault a reasonable response to verbal confrontation? The law and society says “no” every time.

    And for all that is “objective” stop saying “prey upon.” That’s a completely worthless word. And if you insist on using it, then it’s worth mentioning that Martin had a history of preying on others and that’s a matter of record.

    • “A neighborhood watchman was within his rights to question why that person was out and about. Is that deniable?”

      If only Zimmerman asked – “I am on neighborhood watch, what are you doing?”

      Trayvon’s presumed response: “I went to 7/11 and now I am going to my house to watch the NBA game.”

      Instead, Zimmerman stalked, harassed, and preyed upon an unarmed neighbor.

      • @ Daniel: First, Neighborhood Watch has no right to follow anyone. GZ, as a trained NW’er, knew that he was not to follow suspicious people.

        Second, GZ says that he was not engaged in NW activities when he first saw TM. He claims he was on his way to the store, obviously that would be, for an errand so pressing the rain was not an issue.

        GZ says that TM knew he was being followed at some early point. At that point in time, when TM was approaching GZ’s car, “to check me out”! That is exactly when, by all sane metrics, GZ should have rolled down his window and identified himself. After all, as “your friendly Neighborhood Watch Commander” you can’t simply presume that everyone you see out walking in the rain, is an armed and dangerous suspect! Any person who knows they’re being followed, is not only unlikely to commit any crime, but also has a reason to be concerned for their own safety.

        Thus, without a right to follow anyone, suspect or not, GZ should have immediately identified himself when TM drew near. If he had done that, because TM was no criminal, the matter would likely have ended there!

        Instead, GZ allowed hostilities to persist, and further moved to aggravate them by continuing to follow, and later by again refusing to identify himself.
        Thus, he presented a complete stranger with an oddly hostile and belligerent demeanor, which he made no effort to abate! Thus he allowed a hostile and dangerous situation he had created, to escalate!

        Please google Neighborhood Watch and see what the concerns are about how they are created and what they constitute. Then you’ll have a better understanding of what you’re talking about when you say that GZ was doing what a NW’er was supposed to be doing. He wasn’t, none of the materials you read will confirm that he was. He was doing the opposite, and making himself a vigilante unlawful, a stalker/predator, possibly dangerous criminally intended person.

        Even the understandings he GZ had gain during the 14 hour course, and his law studies, should have advised GZ that he alone was creating a dangerous situation and causing/allowing it to escalate. By withholding the identification of himself, he becomes and unlawful challenger, like a policeman who takes precipitous actions without identifying himself, he can cause others to respond with “excusable confusion”. “Excusable” because the courts recognize the rights of people to take reasonable defensive actions, when they feel their rights are being unlawfully transgressed upon.
        Even GZ claims that, when he saw an unidentified person assaulting his friend, he responded to that friends defense, because he did not know that the assaulting person was a police officer. A claim which turned out not to be true.

    • And, when’s the last time you’ve heard about an aggressor crying/pleading for help leading up to their death?

      The answer is “undeniably” (I’m stealing this phrase from you), never.

      • Regardless of the experts claiming the voice was not Zimmerman, I find it difficult to imagine a scenario where a bloody-fisted person would be crying or pleading. The only evidence of which of the two is the aggressor indicates that it was Martin.

        It is clear what you want to believe. But if someone wanted to point to “white on black hate crime” a worse candidate could not have been selected. This is a rather textbook example, in my opinion, of a black on white crime gone bad.

        You are making assumptions and presumptions. I’m going by what forensic evidence which has been presented to the public. We have the 9-1-1 call which does not help Zimmerman’s case much except to show that he is willing to allow the police to do their job and to help them do so. Keeping a suspect in visual range does not exceed this.

        The evidence showing that Zimmerman, a person who far outwighted Martin, was taken to the ground would seem to indicate he was overwhelmed and taken by surprise. If there was “preying” then it was done by Martin. In a situation where one’s face and head are being beaten, it doesn’t really fit that the person doing the act would cry for help.

        I am a father of three sons and one is currently of teen age just older than Treyvon. The other two older and younger. I don’t find it difficult to imagine a 17 year old acting stupid and full of himself because it’s something teenage boys are prone to do. However, as a parent, it would be my worst fear come to life for them to defy my teachings to dress and act as Treyvon has. My first has survived his teens and has gone on to defend our country (whatever that means to you) and my third will hear this and other examples of how and why not to behave in certain ways. (Notably, I can’t tell my middle son anything because he thinks he knows everything already.)

        And that’s the thing isn’t it. In a nation where we have guns permitted by constitutional law, people should be taught to be careful around strangers to say the least. Presuming Treyvon was completely innocent in everything else, the evidence shows he was not careful and that while he dominated the situation for a moment, did not guess that the person he was assaulting had a gun to defend himself.

        • “It is clear what you want to believe.”

          Really, coming from you? The same person that is suggesting somebody crying for help and fighting for his life shouldn’t have some sort of banged up hands? Come on.

          “You are making assumptions and presumptions.”

    • Here is a question. At what point does Mr. Zimmerman politely say that he is the neighborhood watchman? How was Martin know who had rights to follow him? I don’t think any stranger has the right to follow me in the dark. That in itself is threatening. We don’t know who started the physical confrontation, but clearly a man, woman or child fighting for their life will inflict wounds through finger nails biting etc. Seems pretty suspicious that Zim can aim a gun, but has no inclination to fight with his hands. Could it be that his hands were full?

    • Daniel,

      “Even if Zimmerman was verbally assaulting Martin in the worst possible ways; even if Zimmerman was intimidating and threatening Martin, was physical violence by Martin against Zimmerman justifiable? ”

      Are you suggesting a person does not have the right to walk away from verbal abuse and intimidation?

      They’re not allowed to push past an intimidator blocking their path, who has them cornered or backed up against a wall ? They should just stand there and put up with it?

      Next thing you’ll be telling us a woman should not fight against an abusive partner who’s trapped her in the bathroom, or an intending to rapist who corners her in a car-park. And we should all hand our wallets over to anyone who says “gimme your money or I’ll thump you”. Nor should a kid fight back if a stranger approaches him from a suddenly-stopped car.

      “The law and society says “no” every time” ??? no, they say “yes, go for it, save yourself”.

      Different? not at all. What if he DID try to walk away, and GZ made a grab for his arm to detain him? that would leave no physical evidence on either of them…but that is no proof it didn’t happen.

      You also seem to be saying it’s okay to shoot, to get out of being beaten with bare fists. Yet you don’t think it’s okay to shove someone, to get out of being subjected to further verbal abuse and threats? and punch them if they resist the shoving? Where is the physical evidence (or indeed just a statement) that GZ tried in any way to defend himself WITH HIS HANDS, before drawing and using the gun?

      If TM was being abused or threatened by someone who had OBVIOUSLY been following him – and who never once identified himself — he’d have every reason to fear for his safety, even without/before being grabbed in an attempt to detain him.

      Evidence of injuries on both parties proves nothing. It is already well known there was a fight. Plenty of people saw it.

      But they did not see HOW IT STARTED, therefore who started it. That is what is relevant here.

      All our map-drawing is aimed at working out, from the known times, what the likeliest/more possible scenarios could have been.

      It is obvious that GZ is not telling the whole truth; even the police quite early on found discrepancies in his various statements to them. What is he hiding?

      Some of his published statements make zero sense. Like, how come in over 2 minutes he still had not gotten back to a vehicle, from a spot it took him only 26 seconds to get to? Like how come he went the other way to look for a street sign (in a 3-street estate he’s patrolled for 2 years) when what the police wanted to know was where his truck is parked at? like how he got his nose broken when being jumped from behind (photographic evidence showing his nose is in the usual, frontal, position).

      Like how come he never mentions any argument with TM even though several witnesses could hear one? (but which would belie the story about being unexpectedly jumped and bashed to the ground). Like how he never once states he identified himself to TM to explain WHY he was entitled to be interested in his activities? (once again, maybe because a prior discussion would make a lie of the innocent-jumped-from-behind story?)

      You ask whose side we’d be taking if the gun hadn’t come into play. Just based on the other injuries.

      Well, you see, in that case Trayvon Martin would be alive and well, to tell HIS version of what happened and who started it.

      That is the crux of the whole issue.

      Dead men can’t talk. The survivor can tell a lot of stories the victim would and could deny, were he still alive to do so.

      The survivor also has compelling motivation to tell a story that will keep him out of jail, because whether he ends up there or not depends on what happened, and there is ONLY HIS VERSION available, because dead men can’t talk.

      So the forensics, the witnesses to little snatches of the events, the map-drawers, the plotters of what could be true and what could not be true, are the ones who have to speak on behalf of the dead man, to get a view of the events other than that provided by the survivor, who has clear self-interest in making it look good for him.

      It may yet be that, in court, these evidences add up in GZ’s favour. Well and good, if that happens. But until all the evidence is in, you can’t just accept his word for what happened, especially when it does not add up.

      I’ll just say it again: there is only one truth, a million lies.

      If someone tells more than one version of what happened, he is LYING. Even if one version is the truth, the other(s) cannot be. So using the fact that he said it as reason to believe him goes out the window. We need to seek other ways of determining which, if any, is the truth. That is what trials in court are all about.

      • You are extracting ridiculous meaning. According to the situation, Martin was not “cornered or trapped” so why are you even talking about whether he was? According to the 9-1-1 audio, Zimmerman actually LOST Martin meaning he got away. This means Martin returned or did not flee.

        If Zimmerman was attempting to hold Martin in place for police to come and question him, it is evident that he did not use physical force or violence to accomplish it. So once again, responding with violence against non-violence is unacceptable and this is true in official matters as well as civil ones. (Don’t we all get outraged when we see police break up peaceful demonstrations?)

        I fall back to the facts and I hope other people will as well.

        Zimmerman had wounds consistent with being assaulted. Martin did not. Now we hear that the shot which killed Martin was at “point blank range” but not from a distance from which Martin couldn’t see there was a gun. If Martin was “shot in the back” we would know so it’s 99% certain that it Martin was shot in the front and that Martin could likely see the gun.

        This leaves a question in my mind. Did Zimmerman fire because Martin was coming at him [again]? Or, as most people want to imagine, did Zimmerman fire because he was a racist hater of black people?

        And for anyone who says “neighborhood watch should not follow” I have to say that’s crap. Neighborhood watches are there to provide information to police to help them in their investigations. It is a role not unlike other security people. I have had the displeasure of being trained as a TSA screener while between career jobs and we were explicitly instructed to keep suspects in sight for as long as possible and to follow them from a safe distance so that we can report anything we observe to a LEO (law enforcement officer). There may be other instructions which might appear to conflict with the mandate of being observant but they are not. One needn’t be confrontational to be observant. And so far, it has not been proven that Zimmerman did anything other than that… it has, however, been assumed that he somehow instigated everything and that Martin is blameless for everything.

        • Being pinned to the ground by a grown man that has been stalking, harassing, and preying upon you is not peaceful or non violent. Especially if Trayvon was looking down the chamber of a gun (or even felt one on Zimmerman’s body during the wrestling match).

          And, no – Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin at intermediate range. Check your sources.

          http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/report-shot-fired-from-intermediate-range-killed-trayvon/1

          You can think you’re commenting on the facts only but you’re not. The only fact that matters is that Zimmerman should have been waiting in his parked vehicle for the Sanford Police Department to show up…as instructed during his 911 call. Neighborhood Watch is a voluntary program whereas you earned a paycheck with the TSA. See the difference?

          “Did Zimmerman fire because he was a racist hater of black people?”

          I don’t know but his lethal shot made sure this “asshole” wouldn’t get away. Too bad the “asshole” was an unarmed neighbor simply heading home with some snacks.

          • It has not been established as fact that Zimmerman had Martin pinned to the ground. There is evidence to the contrary, however.

            • But, you said this!!!!

              “If Zimmerman was attempting to hold Martin in place for police to come and question him.”

              Are you suggesting they weren’t wrestling on the ground when the shot rang out? Rather, Zimmerman was holding Trayvon in place while they were both standing up?

              A grown man standing up and grabbing onto a teenager that is also standing up but crying for help is creepy, right? On that note, why was Trayvon screaming for help during an event you labeled non violent or peaceful?

          • I don’t think “point blank” means what you think it means. In classical terms, it means “from a distance at which missing the target would be impossible.” It does not mean in close contact or even in close quarters. As ex-military, I know my way around guns.

            • Remember, you’re dealing with Layman civilians like me. Intermediate range probably would have been a smarter choice of words.

              Per a quick google search result, point-blank range means extremely close range but not close enough to be a contact shot.

              So, it sounds like point-blank range has the same meaning as intermediate? I wonder why the MSM settled on the term intermediate range rather than point-blank?

23. Interesting NYT article.

    It is not really flattering for Sanford PD. However, they apparently quickly caught inconsistencies in GZ’s statement and therefore tried to build a case against him as told by Cheryl Brown the mom of the 13yo Austin McLendon.

    • Forgot to put the summary of the failure from SPD:

      * Officers did not thoroughly canvass the Retreat at Twin Lakes gated community, failing to determine that Trayvon was a guest, not an intruder.

      * Some officers were skeptical about details of Zimmerman’s account, particularly the injuries he claimed he suffered and alleged threats made by Trayvon.

      * An officer took only one photo of Zimmerman’s injuries — a full-face portrait, using a cellphone camera, showing a bloodied nose. Paramedics then tended to him. The officer did not download the photo for several days.

      * Police did not secure Zimmerman’s SUV as part of the crime scene. Although he had called 911 from his vehicle and was instructed to stay inside until police arrive, officers said they thought Zimmerman was on foot.

      * The police did not cover the crime scene to shield evidence, including blood, from the rain.

      * Zimmerman was not tested for alcohol or drugs.

      * Police did not have a complete background check in hand until midmorning the day after the killing.

      * One witness said a police investigator twice declined her offer to show him “the close and unobstructed vantage point from a partly opened bedroom window where she had watched and heard the struggle.” The witness said the detective taped part of her account.

    • Well, now we know that the shot was not fired while TM was on top of GZ, while GZ was laying on the ground. Have someone sit on top of you while you’re laying on your back and using your finger as a gun, see what position you’re easily able to fire from. There just isn’t enough space to fire from even 3 to 4 inches away. With the gun in either hand the barrel is going to be most easily aimed either to the left or right, or up, but not down or straight head. This is because the length of your fore arms and bend in your wrists, will restrict the moves you can make while your elbows cannot go lower than the ground.

      To fire a straight ahead shot, you need to be standing so that your elbows can move backwards past your torso, if the victim is very close and/or being held.

      This means that the physical hostilities had ended when the shot was fired, if there was any fight at all. Trayvon had no means to answer while having a deadly weapon pointed at him. The efforts that GZ claims put him in fear of his life had ended and he had gotten up from the ground, both alive and able to draw his weapon. He did not need to fire it, since merely poking it in TM ribs would have been sufficiently intimidating to end all resistance.

      I also note that since he now has control of his weapon, he also has yet another opportunity to identify himself.

      If TM had lived to tell his side of the story, at the very least, without the killing, GZ would have lost his NW command, the SPD, after this performance, could no longer risk retaining GZ.

      • I just ran your experiment with a reluctant family member. If Zimmerman was on the bottom getting his head pounded into the grassy area, Trayvon’s autopsy would have undoubtedly shown a “near contact” gunshot wound. It would have also been very tough to fire a pinpoint lethal shot in this scenario.

        There’s no way this thing even goes to trial, right? I think that’s what other commenters were saying in the original blog posting. Meaning, O’Mara is trying to buy time/money and then settle for a plea.

        I’m not entirely sure Angela Corey is going to be willing to offer a plea deal though (and then Zimmerman and O’Mara still have to deal with the impending Federal Hate Crime).

        • Yes, just laying on a bed or flat surface, even without another person, one can see that it’s almost impossible to put any distance between the muzzle and the opponent. With the ground preventing the upper arms from moving backwards, the forearm has a very restricted range of motion. Trying to withdraw the hand, away from a person straddling you, then requires that your wrist bend more.

          So, no intermediate range shot is possible, unless you extend your arm out to the side and twist your wrist back to point the gun at the opponent. A very unlikely thing to attempt, with an opponent sitting on top of you who can easily pin an extended arm to the ground. That would make any chance of hitting him impossible. But, if you did get off such a “intermediate range shot” that way, the bullet would be traveling from left to right, or right to left and upwards.

          The shot taken goes almost straight through TM’s body, in the front and exits the back on an almost level trajectory. The sum total is, they both had to be standing up on their feet when the shot was fired, to get the range of 12 to 36 inches and a level flight path.

          Since TM could no longer fight after being shot, the statement “he turned and fell” seems to be the true one. That means that whatever had happened on the ground was not the reason for the shot! But, something did have to happen on the ground, because GZ has grass stains on his back! But no lawn debris on his head wound.

          This makes me think that GZ laid down on the grass and wiggled around, AFTER he shot TM. This is what was observed by a witness, who saw GZ laying on the ground some distance apart from TM. It may also be when “white t-shirt” came to administer GZ’s wounds, needed to make his claims.

          Of course, like I said earlier, GZ could very well have worn those wounds from his house! By the time he lays down in the grass, the blood is congealed and no longer sticky enough to pick up debris, just wet a bit, from the time he left his car.

          Also, it would be a very simple explanation as to why TM ran. After seeing the person following you, closer up and from behind as you passed, if you’d noticed they were also bleeding, you’d be very, very spooked indeed. Think Freddie Kruger Friday the 13th typed spooked. A bleeding man in a car following you in silence? You’d probably run, but run anywhere but home!
          You definitely wouldn’t want such a person to know where you lived. So your only option is to run and try to hide. If they found you, all you could do is ask them why they’re following you, of course, you don’t expect any answer in that case, you’d just be temporizing.

          If that person then started arguing with you, you’d play along and argue. Hell you’re scared witless, perhaps loud enough voices will attract more eyes and possibly help. When that doesn’t seem to be working, and your attacker gets a grip on you, you don’t plead with him, because you have no reason to think it will have any effect. He has to appear crazed! So you start screaming for others to come help you. Shows just what a ghoul GZ is, he’ll take a dying boy’s screams for his own.

          He coldly puts his own words in Trayvon Martins mouth “you’re going to die tonight”. Why would TM say anything like that? He’s not a criminal, he’s never even thought about killing anyone. But Zimmerman is a criminal mind, and I believe he has often thought of killing someone. Lot’s of people who get concealed carry permits have such thoughts, some more than others, but they do have to think about it, otherwise what’s the gun for?

          • “The shot taken goes almost straight through TM’s body, in the front and exits the back on an almost level trajectory.”

            Do you have a link? Again, this may have been covered/posted before but everything is starting to blur together…especially for 1st time readers.

            “Of course, like I said earlier, GZ could very well have worn those wounds from his house!”

            Can you explain further?

            “He coldly puts his own words in Trayvon Martins mouth “you’re going to die tonight”. Why would TM say anything like that? He’s not a criminal, he’s never even thought about killing anyone.”

            And, Trayvon’s supposed verbal threat doesn’t makes sense because he didn’t have a weapon capable of killing somebody. No, you can’t kill somebody in a fist fight/wrestling match. Ok, you can, but it takes some massive blows and fluke happenings. It would have made more sense if Zimmerman said: “This guy threatened me by saying, ‘I’m going to kick your ass tonight.'” But, that type of threat wouldn’t fit “nicely” into his Stand Your Ground defense.

            • Let’s see, it was in the last one posted about the records released here or on the other blog. I also posted a copy on my blog, but I’ve got so much to answer I can’t search right now. (inboxes full). They don’t say “straight through or level”, but give the location of the entrance and exit wounds and say that the left ventricle and lung are in the path. There aren’t many angles that will get the left ventricle and the left lung in the same path. So I surmise that the shot had to be pretty level. Especially since, when you factor in the closeness, that means that small angles mean small variations along the path because it take distance for small angles to cause much of a spread.

              But, because I have to read and figure, it takes longer to figure which document says what. But I remember it was an article posted yesterday about the records release, and I got the link here (somewhere above), or on the court list.

      • If GZ ended up on top, you then have to explain how TM ended up down on his belly. Either, GZ flipped him over for some reason or TM was on top but not bending over GZ but rather straddling him on his knees or even maybe standing or anything in between.

        • If they weren’t both standing when the gun was fired, the wound path would not have been straight through TM’s body. If GZ was standing and TM was down, the wound path would probably be slightly upwards from front to back and/or quite a bit more left to right or vice versa, depending on which hand GZ used. Since he’d probably have fired while standing beyond TM’s feet.

          If TM was up and GZ was down, the wound path would be clearly upwards.
          So, the most likely stance for a level front to back wound path that’s nearly straight, is for them both to be standing. Any bending over on TM’s part, lengthens the wound path, while twisting the body causes the wound path to appear curved or out of line.

          My guess is that some powder burning would be lessened by the cloth being damp, so I’d guess, after reading about it, the shot was most likely fired from somewhere between 15 to 25 inches away. Close enough that he could have been holding TM by his hoodie or arm. We shall see. I think the SP has quite enough to get a conviction. I also think that they may get even more, if they don’t already have it.

          My guess is the FBI will do a more thorough check into GZ’s background looking for evidence of his thinking on racial matters. I think his applications and forms won’t bear out that he has any pride at all in his Hispanic heritage, he concealed this proud legacy from the SPD, and I think he concealed it from everyone else besides.

      • Seems they’ve now changed “intermediate range” to be a “contact shot” according to USA Today. (Which came first, the evidence or the new “statements”?)

        This is getting uglier by the minute.

      • NLME “I just ran your experiment with a reluctant family member. ” I’m not sure if it sounds like fun being your family member or maybe kinda scary haha. I just have these visions of you putting all your relatives in position while you re-enact crime scenes, pinning people to beds, doing combat rolls on the ground and making shooting noises “pow pow pow”..haha

24. Another news report, this one from msnbc:

    http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/47453093/#47453093

    Apparently, TM was shot from intermediate range. I’m not sure what an intermediate range is supposed to be but I guess it means TM didn’t have the gun against his chest when the shot was fired.

    The other interesting info is that TM had only one additional wound; a 1/4″ cut at the left hand, under his ring finger’s knuckle. So, I better grab SPD’s statement that TM doesn’t seem to have been beating GZ hard for 1 min.

    The final point I take from that news report is that GZ’s wounds (a lie broken nose, black eyes, …) didn’t require stitches. We knew the ambulance was called off. Now we know the report shows GZ didn’t have it that bad.

    In other words, the report confirms that there was a scuffle between TM & GZ. Beside the gun shot wound, TM looks in better shape than GZ but none of them had it terribly bad contrary to GZ’s statement of having his head banged on the concrete for a minute.

    The whole report can easily fit with the hypothesis that GZ was trying to hold on TM until police arrives while TM was throwing punches to break free and run away.

    There is no wound of any sort reported on GZ’s harms/hands. So, he didn’t really tried to protect his face. There is no wound on TM’s suggesting his been punched. So, what was GZ doings with his hands if he wasn’t punching back or protecting his face? Was he grabbing TM by his hoodie? Did he have his gun drawn already or was he trying to draw it?

    The intermediate range shot wound may suggest the gun was fired at a moment TM was breaking free and just getting away. If the gun powder on TM’s hoodie is confirmed, it means that the sweater wasn’t against TM’s chest. So, where was it? In GZ’s hand?

    TM was found lying face down on the lawn. That looks feasible if he was standing or in the process of standing up when he was shot. He would then have collapsed on the side of GZ. This could be an indication that TM was indeed breaking free.

    • “In intermediate-range wounds, the muzzle is held away from the skin but close enough that it still produces powder tattooing. This type of wound is also characterized by numerous reddish-brown to orange-red lesions around the entrance to the wound.”

      Source: http://www.relentlessdefense.com/forensics/gunshot-wounds/

      Do we know for sure that Trayvon was shot from the front? I’m not suggesting Zimmerman shot him from behind (adds: unlikely given Zimmerman knew he had to be acting in “self defense” in order to pull the trigger), but, if so – we all know what that means.

      Update: It’s publicly known that Trayvon was shot from the front…

      http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/report-shot-fired-from-intermediate-range-killed-trayvon/1

      • Thanks for the information.
        I’m still not clear though, because Flashlight, the man who took a picture of GZ’s head, saw the powder mark on TM’s hoodie which suggest that the intermediate range was to the sweater and not the TM’s body. The article suggests it was to TM’s body. Moreover, how could Flashlight see the gun powder mark on TM’s body if he was lying on it. The only ways I can see is that the sweater was wide open or the body has been moved.

        • You’ve probably even emailed this to me – I’m sorry…I’m completely behind in nearly all aspects of my life right now…ha – but, do you have a link or source for Flashlight’s statement?

      • Intermediate range would be somewhere from 12 to maybe 36 inches, depending on the gun.

        http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distanceResults.htm

        explains it with illustrations of the residues (from which they determine the shot distance). The Intermediate description is right down near the bottom.

        Screaming for help, even if you WERE the original aggressor, ties in very nicely with finding yourself suddenly facing a gun. Even more so if you already knew about the gun, was fighting to stop the other getting at it, and he finally gets it out and pointed your way.

        YES the report says shot from the front, entry of shot into left ventricle of the heart.

        http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/report-shot-fired-from-intermediate-range-killed-trayvon/1

        • Thank you for the USA Today link!

      • Here is the link:

        http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-tells-trayvon-martins-parents/story?id=16177849&page=2#.T7UAGuiKnNU

        The part I’m referring to in the article is:

        “The person who took THE PHOTOGRAPH of a bloodied Zimmerman, asking not to be identified, told ABC News exclusively that THEY did not see the scuffle that night, but did hear it. The person recalled seeing Martin’s prostrate body on the wet grass and said the gunpowder burns on Martin’s gray hoodie were CLEARLY visible.”

        I have edited abcnews article by putting in uppercase what I believe are key words.

        • Thank you!

      • clearly visible gun powder residue, or perhaps wet patches from laying on wet grass?

      • Lee also said they think what zimmerman did was terrible and he should have stayed in his truck.

      • @tchoupi, you raised same questions I did when the bloody head photo first appeared and witness states they could clearly see gun powder residue. How was that even possible?! I look forward to John being called as a witness…he’s given misleading statements, first on 911 call, then next day to Fox.

        • I want the witness “John’s” phone records and relationship to Zimmerman reviewed and disclosed. You don’t randomly help a stranger cover up a murder — if covering up a murder is indeed what John has helped do.

    • Thanks for the link. They mentioned that the abrasion on Trayvon Martin’s hand is *below the knuckle on his ring finger on the left hand.

      • Was this the only injury to Trayvon Martin’s hand?!? Or, the knuckles plus this?

        If Trayvon’s only injury was this cut, why is the MSM reporting that Trayvon Martin had bloodied and injured knuckles?

        Since piling on the Mainstream Media is sooo Sarah Palin, I usually don’t. But, ABC News and CNN – specifically – are driving me crazy with their reporting.

        • If I’m correctly understanding the NBC News report I just posted in the update section, the 1/4 inch single abrasion on Trayvon Martin’s ring finger was the only other injury to his body. There were no injured knuckles.

      • I didn’t see a mention of whether it was old or fresh. Anyone?

        • That was my first thought as well! I’m guessing fresh since Trayvon was apparently crying for help in a failed struggle for his life. But, how good are 7/11’s cameras?

      • The way I understood the article is that there were only two injuries on TM’s body: one is the gun shot, the other is the cut below the knuckle on the the left hand finger.
        It would be interesting to know if TM was left handed.
        Per GZ’s statement, only one punch was thrown to the nose and that’s how TM would have started the fight that lead to his own death. The rest of the time was about banging GZ’s head, or suffocating him or fighting for his gun. So, it is not clear how the black eyes were made. Since black eye is a bruise, is it possible that the bleeding from the nose caused the black eyes by mean of blood flooding under the skin from the sinus
        area?
        Anyhow, if TM was throwing punches at GZ to break free as I’m supposing above, I guess he used both fits.

        One interesting input from the report is that no stitch was required confirming GZ’s wounds were superficial.

        • Not in a snarky tone but I thought Zimmerman was originally attacked from behind – so, not a hit to the face.

          My sister took a softball to the face when we were younger. She bled ALL OVER the place – IMMEDIATELY – and had two black eyes hours later.

      • I agree that it doesn’t take much to bleed from the nose. It happened to me at sport quite a few times after being hit on the nose. It may look impressive but is not necessarily an indication of something bad.

        • I mean, 5 year olds pick their nose too hard and seemingly gallons of blood come rushing out. Ha!

    • The entry would is deemed intermediate. Add whatever Zimmerman’s arm length is (or at a minimum 1/2 his arm length) to whatever measures they come up with for the intermediate wound.

      Any way you look at it, that means George Zimmerman is lying about when he shot Trayvon Martin. It’s physically impossible to accomplish.

      Other notes.. The can of Arizona Iced Tea does not appear to be dented, so it was not used as a weapon against Zimmerman. It was found inside Martin’s pockets before the officers attempting CPR removed it. (Evidence dump page 20: http://www.scribd.com/doc/93960335/Documents#fullscreen)

25. A New York Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-case-shadowed-by-police-missteps.html?_r=2) ends the mystery about Zimmerman’s clothes being collected for evidence. Apparently, what we saw in the photos and videos is exactly what Zimmerman was wearing because he didn’t change until his wife brought him some fresh clothes at the police station.

    The NYT article also mentions that the Sanford police department did NOT take a picture of the back of Zimmerman’s head — only the front showing the bloody nose. According to the article, SPD took the photo with a cell phone and then forgot to download the picture for several days. Yeah right!

    • Important – does anybody have a link or source stating the device the original bloodied head picture was taken with? I thought I read in the comments section of the original blog posting that the date/time stamp was verified. By who and how?

      If the date/time stamp was only verified by ABC News and not the investigators, this is the same mainstream media that first used the “most sophisticated equipment around” to report Zimmerman may have said “f_cking coons” only days later to say he may have said “f_cking cold.”

      Even though the statement “f_cking cold” makes no sense (“It’s f_cking cold” or “Man, I’m f_cking cold” makes sense), neither coons or cold are 100% clearly audible with CNN’s meh technology. Thus, enter the FBI stage left.

      • It was verified by the news organization. However, this is not a complex operation and this is not about bringing a signal above the noise level. With the proper tool, you can easily extract data embedded by your digital information into your picture.
        More generally, this is a privacy issue since by handing out a digital picture taken from a smart phone, you give away more than what you think and tat may include when, where and even information on the owner of the phone.
        There are tools to clean up a picture from that can of information.

        • Oh, I agree – it’s very simple. But, I don’t trust somebody trying to sell a story with a very simple task though…as we saw with the CNN “f_cking coons” enhancement. Any word if investigators have confirmed the picture’s authenticity?

          And, I should note – I’m not saying the picture was faked. At all. I’m just trying to confirm that the authorities have confirmed the picture’s authenticity.

      • I agree with tchoupi. My recollection is that ABC made a big deal about how the photo was vetted by ABC — not real techs capable of doing such.

26. What does it matter about the police unlocking the phone?

    At the scene, or not long after, they may ave been able to find an emergency number on it, from whom they could have found out who he was.

    But they can’t really go calling the last 5 people you called (Pizza Hut, your aunt, cab service etc) with “Hi, I’m from the XYZ police. Can you tell me whose phone I am ringing from? it’s just that we can’t ask him ‘cos he’s been shot dead?”

    Well of course they can’t. So next morning, when he’s identified, unlocking the phone loses any urgency it may have had. In fact with no evidence he was on a call at the time of death, no urgency at all.

    Meanwhile of course DeeDee doesn’t think it’s important, as the guy who did it was apprehended at the scene and admitted it, so he’s going to be charged, right? surely he is….

    TM’s phone only becomes important when she finally does state that he told her about being followed etc., after it becomes obvious the guy is not going to be charged.

    Everyone else’s phone records become important when there are doubts about GZ having come across TM by accident, and queries about who else did what in the aftermath.

    IF GZ got a call from some other resident (say Taaffe) about someone acting suspiciously, just before “going to Target”, that would put the entire story into a different light.

    For all we know GZ could have made another call/s between hanging up the 911 call and the confrontation starting. That, too, could be extremely relevant.

    Phone records from the immediate aftermath would go towards showing any possible coverups. Who was GZ talking to, in the photo of the back of his head?

    The police not getting into TM’s phone for days is not all that important.

    • It definitely explains why it could have taken awhile (ambiguous) for DeeDee to be contacted. Even though, the timing of Dee Dee coming publicly forward through attorneys doesn’t matter in this case. At all.

      I want to know if the Neighborhood Watch crew used CB radios for communication. Seeing that Zimmerman’s car wasn’t secured, we’ll likely never know unless somebody from the NW comes forward.

      Why do CBs matter? As Zimmerman pulled the trigger, he knew his phone records would be investigated. Just like he knew to say it was he – not Trayvon – crying for help in the event somebody overheard those cries. If Zimmerman had much to hide – like phone records showing calls to/from accomplices aiding in his stalking, harassing and preying – he doesn’t shoot Trayvon.

      • Some cell phones are two-ways. Unknown if people still use that, but good question. I still want to know how Zimmerman expected the witness Jon (I think) to know his wife’s phone number when he told him to caller her to let him know he’s shot someone.

        • Did Zimmerman tell John the number? This has probably been covered. I can’t remember. Link?

      • I don’t recall Witness 13 telling anyone how he knew Zimmerman’s wife’s telephone number. In the evidence dump, Witness 13 says he called Zimmerman’s wife at Zimmerman’s request. Nobody asked during the interviews how he would know the number to call her. Witness 13 does state the he does not know Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin. Witness 13 took 3 pics of Zimmerman and the crime scene, BUT after Zimmerman altered the crime scene.

        • Do you know if any of the witness statements are on YouTube yet? Well, other than “John’s” — the one I’ve already reviewed.

27. FYI…

    I did a little digging around and it looks like this WordPress theme let’s me reply to comments until I’m blue in the face if I’m using the WordPress app or the Admin panel to manage the blog.

    Otherwise, replies are capped at a certain number. So, I’m guessing that most of the longer comment chains end with a final reply from me. This is unintentional/inadvertent.

    • But, if you have an email subscription, you can comment on posts that are closed as many times as you like. Just go back into your trash folder and dig out a post and click reply.
      Hope this helps some.

      • NICE!!! 99% of the time I use the app and admin panel however this is great info for fellow commenters…thanks!

28. On another subject, George Zimmerman wrote to a man in Ohio longhand from jail on May 17 (3 days before bond hearing), that donations to his website would be used for his bail. Here’s the link: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/george-zimmerman-jail-letter-354759
    He says he believes he is going to make it through all this. GZ is a very delusional man.

    • I’m only going off memory but everybody on Zimmerman’s team acted dumb during the bond hearing about how much money was in the PayPal account, correct? Did they ever say and/or deny what the money would be going towards? It would be interesting to see the login history with IP addresses.

      When are they going to nail Zimmerman for lying under oath about Trayvon’s age during the bond hearing?

      • Trayvon Martin was killed by a penetrating gunshot wound to the chest, the entrance wound located on his left chest 17 inches below the head. The bullet entered the left side of his chest and shattered the ventricle of the heart, and the round did not leave his body. (http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/autopsy-trayvon-martin-killed-by-single-gunshot-fired-from-intermediate-range.php)

        Zimmerman claims that Trayvon didn’t die immediately, but said “You got me” or “It’s over”. A hollow-point 9mm to the heart is instant death. There are no B-movie last lines to be uttered. The hydrostatic shock would kill even before the thing chewed up the ventricle, so this is another one of his lies. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57435800/zimmerman-martins-last-words-were-its-over/)

        The medical examiner’s report says there was a soot ring abrasion and a two-inch by two-inch area of stippling. (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-family-lawyers-stop-leaks-release-records-152333240.html)

        We can make some VERY general deductions from this.

        The fact that the stippling is symmetrical (2 inches square) suggests that the bullet entered the chest straight on, not an an angle. When a bullet enters at an angle, the stippling is elliptical, and heavier nearer the gun, because the gunpowder and particulates leaving the gun barrel spray out in a cone-shaped pattern. (Warning, pictures of gunshot wounds: http://www.bevfitchett.com/gunshot-wounds/cm.html)

        It is impossible to actually give an exact distance fired, or even an estimated distance, until one takes the weapon (or a gun from the same manufacurer) and does sets of three test fires at 0, 3, 6, 12, 18, 24, and 30 inches. These results are then compared to the actual documented wound, soot, stippling etc. (http://www.firearmsid.com/A_diststandards.htm)

        Accordingly, pathologists at autopsy will describe a GSW as contact, close, intermediate, or distant. “Intermediate” is somewhere in the range of 1 to 3 feet (http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distanceResults.htm)

        The gunshot residue can penetrate clothing and mark the skin. The reports I was finding were not particularly precise about what exactly was marked with the soot ring and stippling. A T-shirt would almost certainly allow some of the residue through to the skin, but the report doesn’t say if the marks are on the body or the clothing.

        If we’re talking about marks on the clothes, we can make estimates based on the soot and stippling. Stippling marks are absent if the shot is fired from 4-15 feet away, depending on the gun and ammo. Visible soot has a maximum range of 6-10 inches, so that’s the maximum distance of the soot to the gun. (http://books.google.com/books?id=Y4Nvl1kan58C)

        However here, they’re saying that this is the medical examiner’s report, and that suggests that we’re talking about marks on the body of Trayvon Martin. The distance calibration in the prior paragraph becomes useless, because without specific test pattern data shooting Zimmerman’s gun through a T-shirt and possibly the hoodie, we don’t know how much of the gunshot residue would have penetrated the cloth. Ball powder will go through clothing, flake powder usually does not. One would need specific data on the ammunition in use to be more specific.

      • NLME, the guy’s up for Murder 2 already. No need to throw the whole book at him.

        Swearing to tell the truth, whole truth and nothing but is a formality. It is the defendant’s JOB to tell as many fibs as necessary to get off. Prosecution’s to catch him out on it.

        Besides, he didn’t outright lie. He just uses vague terms that are easy to misinterpret. What is “young” ? what is a “couple of years” ?

        “I didn’t know he was unarmed” translates to “I suspected that he was”.

        What time frame is covered by “and then……….” ? immediate? 2 minutes? 5 minutes? if the listener is silly enough to assume immediate, that is a lot of action he doesn’t have to explain.

        The PayPal issue is different. A lie by omission. Very technically not “his” money. They asked specific questions, do you own the house? what’s the equity? how much is the car worth? nobody asked do you have a PayPal and what’s in that, so “okay” to not mention it. Like “okay” to forget a loud argument before being “jumped”.

        • “what is a ‘couple of years?'”

          Definitely less than 9!

          28 (Zimmerman’s age) – 19 (last teenage year) = 9 years.

          I want anything/everything thrown at Zimmerman. And, then the Federal Hate Crime to top it off. We can’t live in a society where vigilantism and profiling is tolerated.

      • Gunnora,

        That makes it seem impossible for the shot to have been taken by someone being sat on.

        How can you get the gun a foot away and shoot straight at the heart?

        Seems either you’d be at a strange contortion that would make it relatively easy for the one on top to grab the gun away. Or you’d be shooting up at an angle.

      • @gunnora –

        Thanks for posting that the reports are that the gunshot did not exit the body. I had read that elsewhere, too. Based on other news I read, the bullet type was a hollow-point which is designed not to exit the body.

29. Trayvon Martin was killed by a penetrating gunshot wound to the chest, the entrance wound located on his left chest 17 inches below the head. The bullet entered the left side of his chest and shattered the ventricle of the heart, andthe round did not leave his body. (http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/autopsy-trayvon-martin-killed-by-single-gunshot-fired-from-intermediate-range.php)

    Zimmerman claims that Trayvon didn’t die immediately, but said “You got me” or “It’s over”. A hollow-point 9mm to the heart is instant death. There are no B-movie last lines to be uttered. The hydrostatic shock would kill even before the thing chewed up the ventricle, so this is another one of his lies. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57435800/zimmerman-martins-last-words-were-its-over/)

    The medical examiner’s report says there was a soot ring abrasion and a two-inch by two-inch area of stippling. (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-family-lawyers-stop-leaks-release-records-152333240.html)

    We can make some VERY general deductions from this.

    The fact that the stippling is symmetrical (2 inches square) suggests that the bullet entered the chest straight on, not an an angle. When a bullet enters at an angle, the stippling is elliptical, and heavier nearer the gun, because the gunpowder and particulates leaving the gun barrel spray out in a cone-shaped pattern. (Warning, pictures of gunshot wounds: http://www.bevfitchett.com/gunshot-wounds/cm.html)

    It is impossible to actually give an exact distance fired, or even an estimated distance, until one takes the weapon (or a gun from the same manufacurer) and does sets of three test fires at 0, 3, 6, 12, 18, 24, and 30 inches. These results are then compared to the actual documented wound, soot, stippling etc. (http://www.firearmsid.com/A_diststandards.htm)

    Accordingly, pathologists at autopsy will describe a GSW as contact, close, intermediate, or distant. “Intermediate” is somewhere in the range of 1 to 3 feet (http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distanceResults.htm)

    The gunshot residue can penetrate clothing and mark the skin. The reports I was finding were not particularly precise about what exactly was marked with the soot ring and stippling. A T-shirt would almost certainly allow some of the residue through to the skin, but the report doesn’t say if the marks are on the body or the clothing.

    If we’re talking about marks on the clothes, we can make estimates based on the soot and stippling. Stippling marks are absent if the shot is fired from 4-15 feet away, depending on the gun and ammo. Visible soot has a maximum range of 6-10 inches, so that’s the maximum distance of the soot to the gun. (http://books.google.com/books?id=Y4Nvl1kan58C)

    However here, they’re saying that this is the medical examiner’s report, and that suggests that we’re talking about marks on the body of Trayvon Martin. The distance calibration in the prior paragraph becomes useless, because without specific test pattern data shooting Zimmerman’s gun through a T-shirt and possibly the hoodie, we don’t know how much of the gunshot residue would have penetrated the cloth. Ball powder will go through clothing, flake powder usually does not. One would need specific data on the ammunition in use to be more specific.

30. I’m reading on other sites that traces of THC were found in Martin’s blood and urine. Does this have any relevance in the charges of 2nd degree murder?

    • So, Trayvon was super chill then? I wish Zimmerman would have been high on pot.

      • This certainly explains why GZ has no defensive wounds to go with his claimed offensive ones. It also is a good fit with TM’s gf’s claims that he said “Why are you following me?” That “push” or other physical reaction, in response to a question that should have drawn a verbal reply, is yet another piece of evidence that GZ escalated hostilities yet again. I’d say that GZ would look pretty darned frightening in the dark there, with his face screwed up in anger. My guess would be that TM tried to turn and run, but was prevented by GZ’s reaction of probably grabbing TM’s arm or clothes trying to hold him.

        The argument would probably have been TM crying let go of me, who are you? What are you doing? With GZ getting more and more antsy realizing, if the cops found him there, holding the suspect, with a fire arm on him, after he had said that he wasn’t following, he’d have a whole lot of explaining to do.
        He certainly doesn’t want to become a failed Neighborhood Watch Captain!
        Not to add to his life long history of other failures.

    • THC can stay in your system for weeks. Judging by when he was suspended from school for pot, its about right.

31. Police state the altercation was avoidable:

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/evidence-released-in-trayvon-martin-killing/1#.T7WW_EXwstE

    As if most of us didn’t know this already. I’m sure their opinion of the avoidability of this killing is going to weigh heavy against Zimmerman.

32. The things that interested me the most were in the witness interviews. In the very long one, it goes from the witnesses handwriting to another handwriting of a transcript of a Q and A. It describes the argument and says the loud voice was “demanding and angry”. I can’t be sure of the first word. Then the questioner asks “demanding and argumentative?” It makes me think is Zimmerman confronting Trayvon like he is attempting to detain or fake arrest him.

    The other big thing is one of the witness statements says she sees two men chasing each other towards the top of the T, about 10-12 inches apart. We know from the DD call that Trayvon wasn’t lying in wait to ambush Zimmerman, he was in fact surprised to see the stalker again. So I find it hard to imagine how TM would chase GZ towards the T. So it must have been GZ chasing TM. But towards the T? Then GZ came between the buildings? Or Maybe the confrontation was elsewhere, and DD heard an initial confrontation, then a longer chase ensued. Or maybe the chase was after TM knocked GZ to the ground where he bonked his head. Then maybe gz chased TM turned him around and shot him. But that doesn’t seem to fit the audio.

    We also have the one statement in the autopsy that GZ shot TM and TM fell to the ground.

    There were also some interesting partial notes on the bottom of one autopsy page that suggested a different characterization of the case when it was handed to the autopsy. “face down. Confronted by resident, fought, then shot to ground 911” then “called 911, confronted, then shot”.

33. 2 different DNA samples on gun grip but martin has been ruled out as being one of them. There was blood under trayvons nails but no dna foreign to him so it must have been his blood…ME2A AND ME2B are the clippings from his right and left fingernails.

    ME8 is trayvons shirt -Zimmermans blood was on trayvons clothes, there is a possibility of another dna contributor (??). On trayvons right cuff/sleeve there were no traces of dna foreign to trayvon. ME12 trayvons hoodie – no blood on his hoodie cuffs either left or right.

    • Jo,
      Thanks for that link to the pages and pages of released evidence!

      I’m very curious about the location they found Trayvon’s phone (marker#7) since that’s likely their point of encounter, but couldn’t find any kind of photo of the crime scene with markers on it.

      Anyone know of anything like this?

      • Thank you (again), jo! I’ve added this to the Update section of the blog posting.

      • I’ve been reading here:
        Sanford Police Department Offense Report

        It says that TM’s headset was found in his pocket?!? I thought he was wearing it and it fell off??? If so, how did it get in his pocket?

        The Skittles and Iced Tea were also found in the pocket of his hoodie.

        I noted that there were two witnesses who saw GZ on the ground, with nobody on top of him.

        Another anomaly is that one witness says that GZ was on the ground calling for help, with no one on top of him, and a neighbor who couldn’t be identified, was asking him if he needed help. And these accounts appear to have been from before the fatal shot was fired or heard.

        I also noted that GZ had on a grey shirt under his jacket! Hmmm?!? eh?

        As the story goes from GZ, he should never be on the ground, at any time alone, without TM either around or on top of him. But, it seems that he was seen on the ground with no one around but a neighbor asking him if he needed help.

        The only speculation I can come up with that fits this would be:

        GZ locates TM in hiding somehow, before TM sees him (phone rings?).
        He then rolls himself on the ground, bangs his head on the sidewalk front and back, then goes and drags TM from his hiding place, throws his jacket
        on TM on the ground and gets on top of him briefly, TM calls for help, GZ then gets up, puts his jacket back on, while TM gets up and then shoots him.

        Okay, I just cobbled that together in a “quick and dirty” attempt to account for the evidence. It is admittedly weird.

      • When a headset falls off (or is snatched off), you, as a listener on the other end, don’t know where it falls or where it lands. It could fall inside your jacket. It could fall to the ground. It could be snatched off of you and land in somebody else’s pocket. Your opinion of where a headset falls is most likely formed after the fall and what you can hear afterwards.

34. The Wall Street Journal posted an article regarding all of the evidence that has been reported over the last few days. There’s over 100 pages worth of witness statements and the autopsy report is included. The documents are in the second link below. I find it interesting some of the media is reporting all of these injuries to TM’s knuckles when it turns out there was a small abrasion 1/4 x 1/8″ to his ring finger BELOW the knuckle. I am not sure why it’s not posted on the 18th Circuit Court website yet.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/05/17/document-dump-george-zimmerman-discovery-file/

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/93960335/Documents#fullscreen

    • Thank you, bunny620 — I’ve added this to the Update section of the blog posting!

      • Uh oh, GZ is toast!!! The guy who says TM was on top of GZ, is obviously lying! Since GZ could not possibly shoot TM, with a nearly level shot that goes almost straight through his body. From GZ’s position on the bottom, the shot would have to go left or right and upwards through TM, because, being on the ground places severe limits on the range of motion for the hands, wrists and elbows.

        The left ventricle of the heart only covers a very small area of the lung. Thus a shot that goes through them both, has to be in a pretty straight line.

        Now, I’ve tried a few variations of position and learned it’s not entirely impossible to get a straight through level shot from a prone position. But it’s not only incredibly difficult, there’s another factor we have to remember.
        The person sitting on top of you, at this point, knows you have a gun.
        So, he’s not going to be just sitting their waiting for you to take your best aim. In fact he’s going to be in a superior position to prevent you from getting in a shot, from any difficult-to-reach angle. So, be sure to factor that in, when trying to figure what more than likely happened.

        Both people standing makes the most sense, because that allows for the shot to be easily achieved, even if taken at random. While the other way, you need some very special conditions indeed.

        • The witness “John” had a few chances to come clean already. I wonder if Angela Corey gives him a few more chances.

          Do we know the times for all the 911 calls yet? I’d like to know when “John” called. Did investigators fingerprint the area around the shooting scene to see if Trayvon was breaking into houses or anything suspicious?

          If so, maybe George’s fingerprints are around that same area? Maybe even on “John’s” door and/or door knocker?

          If Zimmerman’s fingerprints were around “John’s” property, why? Not to get his address — you’d never bother somebody for their address when you can go around the corner to the front of their house…which would also subsequently have brought Zimmerman closer to his parked vehicle — where he should have been waiting for Police.

          • There may be family videos of Trayvon that will show his demeanor and comportment. His teachers and others, like shopkeepers, store clerks, librarians and others in both neighborhoods who have come into contact
            with Trayvon who can testify as to the childs demeanor and comportment.
            It will not be that of a ruffian or delinquent, but of a very respectful and harmless, likeable child. Nowhere will be found anyone who is frightened
            by Trayvon’s comportment. Thus, I can safely conclude that GZ was in almost total control of events.

            This explains what GZ was doing on the ground, separated from TM’s body.
            Because, by this time, TM would already be dead and not capable of moving around. The witness who saw GZ on the ground, with TM’s body not visible, probably had a bad angle and just couldn’t see it. As if viewing from between buildings or from behind a window or door where the fixtures or frame obscured some of the view.

            Clearly from the narrative, GZ should never be on the ground alone!

      • NLME,
        I can’t remember where, but I saw the time on “John’s” call was 1 minute after the shot. His witness report says he heard the shot when he was going upstairs, then he looked outside before he called 911.

        His statements actually seem consistent to me. My guess is that his stating he would call the police got Trayvon to get up to run from the fight (where he was on top). Zimmerman took that moment to get up and shoot Martin.

        But the part I can’t merge is how that gets into the calls for help.
        Do the voices change? Could the first two cries be Zimmerman, and the last one Trayvon?

        Or does John tell the truth, but leave out the space of time, maybe a minute, between when he was outside, and when he heard the shot?

    • wow bunny in that first link notice the witness that saw 2 men running towards the T with a FLASHLIGHT BETWEEN THEM……so unless they were practising the baton change in the relay for the olympics that means george was chasing trayvon.

      • NLME and Sprout, I too listened to 911 call placed by John and it displayed the actual time of call…it only lasted for about 1 or 2 mins max. I believe it began at 7:17 and ended around 7:18. Remember, he’s also same person that took photo of GZ’s head so was back down stairs by 7:19 which is time stamp on cell phone.

      • Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! Chase with flashlight between. Only Zimmerman had a flashlight on him.

        In addition, witness Jon has changed his story to say he had only assumed it was Zimmerman crying for help and now he’s not sure if it .was Trayvon or not .

        Key witness in Trayvon Martin shooting: I’m no longer sure Zimmerman was crying for help

        http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-18/news/os-trayvon-martin-evidence-witness6-20120518_1_key-witness-ground-dog-fight

      • Says “fistfight”, not “flashlight”.

      • oh shit so it does…oh well if she witnessed the chasing and fist fight that is more than most have seen…thanks common sense

    • and what about the witness who said he saw a black guy on top of a white or hispanic..???? really, you could see that george may have been hispanic…i wouldn’t have picked him for hispanic even in the light of day. He couldn’t identify the men because of the lighting conditions, but could see that zimmerman may have been white or hispanic. It just seems to be a little bit too much information..this is also the guy that said martin was hitting zimmerman MMA style…sounds exaggerated. Wow and the witness (presumably the kid) who said a man in red was laying on the ground yelling for help like they couldn’t get up, like they had slipped, but DID NOT SEE ANYONE ELSE. Martin must have already been standing.

35. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/17/2804894_p2/cries-in-the-night-witnesses-conflict.html#disqus_thread

    Ther were details about the conversations of Zimmerman with his gun pal, right after the shooting. Sounds like it was Taaffe, and he knew exactly the guns Zimmerman owned, a 9 and 40

    Interesting that the argument was farther away then moved closer. Maybe Tm had run home and was on his back porch when confronted by GZ. Then GZ tries to detain TM and GZ chases TM toward the T.

    • “Maybe Tm had run home and was on his back porch when confronted by GZ. Then GZ tries to detain TM and GZ chases TM toward the T.”

      Very interesting. The timing matches as well.

    • Toneii,

      I am thinking the same thing. I think Trayvon made it to the back porch & thought he was safe. He sat on his back porch continued his conversation with DeeDee. George could hear Trayvon talking finds him on Brandy’s back porch and that’s when Trayvon tells DeeDee the guy is back. What are you following me for? What are you doing around here. Scuffle starts. Deedee hears Trayvon saying Get off get off then the phone dies. At this point I think Trayvon managed to get the lunatic off by kicking his butt and ran off after spotting the gun. George was probably furious from getting his butt handed to him and gave chase. George manages to catch Trayvon or Trayvon slips in the wet grass up near the T. Trayvon yells for help while George is on top of Trayvon. George shoots his weapon. I think George turned the body over searching for weapons or burglary equipment. Anything to justify the killing.

36. One more. In the 7-11 tape, I hear Trayvon say to the clerk, “can I have a bag please? Thank you.”

    Does that sound like a thug to you? Saying please and thank you to a 7-11 clerk?

    • Nope. Sounds perfectly innocent. But let me ask you this: Martin had gold teeth. He hand gang tattoos. Does that sound like a thug to you?

      • Nope – it sounds like a teenager. I had blue hair, plaid shirts, and an appetite for partying when I was in high school. I wasn’t in the band Nirvana. I wasn’t grunge. I was a teenager.

        I am also going to be super tired tomorrow morning. Ha!

        P.S. I don’t remember saying please or thank you – unless I was around my parents of course – until I was an adult.

      • Trayvon Martin didn’t have tats or gold teeth. The pictures that showed that were of another kid named Trayvon Martin in New York. I have that documented with links to sources at…

        http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/29/why-hasnt-george-zimmerman-been-arrested/

        …towards the bottom of the article.

        • Excellent, excellent blog/ezine.

          • http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer

            So to be clear, the pictures on this page are NOT Martin?

      • Daniel,
        He has tattoos for his mother and grandmother, a heart sticker on his cell phone, and likes a little weed.

        That’s a lover, not a hater.

      • Only if you admit that using your own criteria that George Zimmerman who was tattooed is a thug. If you say that George Zimmerman didn’t have removable prank rims and there he is not the thug, you’ll be telling on yourself (as being unaware, out of touch, and unforgiving of teenage antics). Both Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman were tatted. Trayvon had his mother’s name as a tatto and George Zimmerman had somebody named “Christina” tatted on his chest.

      • Additionally, the tattoos were of praying hands on his arm and his mom’s name was on his wrist. The only thug in this situation was George. We know of his domestic violence complaint, the assault on a cop, he disparaged Mexicans on his MySpace, and bullied his Middle Eastern co worker. Trayvon was by no means perfect but certainly doesn’t have a history of violence documented by the police like George.

37. “One witness in the case, a girlfriend of Trayvon’s, was nowhere near the scene. She was on the phone with him, calling from South Florida. The girlfriend told prosecutors the two were talking when Trayvon encountered Zimmerman.

    “He was telling me that there was a man watching him,” she said, according to the records. She said Trayvon told her he was walking away. The phone disconnected. She called back.”

    It look’s like the 6:54 PM- call lasted about 18 min. and the 7:12 about 4 Min. both TM’s female friend. This is huge!!!!

    • “This is huge!!!!”

      What’s your theory?

      • Huge? I think not. This was established long ago. What is interesting, however is the lengthy duration of time.

        Neighborhood watch exists because the neighborhood has a history of crime problems. Those crimes have been done by… no need to state the obvious, but since crimes of the sort they had been experiencing were not committed by women, then a woman wouldn’t be considered as suspicious… you get the idea? If the truth is offensive, that’s just too bad, the truth doesn’t get changed, only denied or ignored.

        Now then. Consider how long it would take someone to walk from the entrance the his father’s girlfriend’s place. Not 22+ minutes to be sure. Think on that hard. Was he really just walking around or was there something about his path and behavior which raised suspicion? If he were walking directly, he would have been safely at his father’s girlfriend’s place in about 5 minutes.

        This really makes it seem like something else was afoot.

        And let’s not forget that this is a gated community with an organized watch group. This means that everyone knows everyone else at least as far as who actually lives there. Martin did not and that naturally contributes to his being classified as suspicious.

        And since it turns out that the neighborhood is actually quite diverse, I think it’s reasonable to presume that Martin’s ethnic background had less to do with his being identified as suspicious. Once again, looking into Zimmerman’s activities and associations, he does not demonstrate any visible hatred or fear of black people. He’s just not a good candidate for a “hate criminal.” Too many black friends and neighbors for that to be the case.

        So why was Martin taking so much time going through such a small gated community? Weird right?

        So I agree… it’s huge in the sense that Martin was “not suspicious and definitely belonged there.”

        • “Neighborhood watch exists because the neighborhood has a history of crime problems.”

          “but since crimes of the sort they had been experiencing were not committed by women, then a woman wouldn’t be considered as suspicious.”

          How many people were arrested breaking into houses in this gated community? How many of them were black? How many people were arrested in Seminole county for breaking into houses? How many of them were black?

          Let’s do some real fact checking and see what happens.

          • Those facts would not be popular here, I promise you. And even if 100% were black males, people here would decry “profiling! you can’t do that! It’s wrong!” In a sense, that’s true. You shouldn’t rely on profiling. And that’s what I was getting at.

            It took a ridiculously long time for Martin to make the walk and he hadn’t even completed it when he felt he was being watched. Actions like these should be considered suspicious. It was raining. He should have been hurrying to his father’s girlfriend’s house. (Note that I do not say “home” or his father’s home… it was neither and therefore he was a stranger to this gated community with an organized neighborhood watch who should know everyone there.)

            It’s a gated community with a neighborhood watch program. “Suspicion” is built into the equation isn’t it?

            • Let’s get the facts! It will be fun. Make sure you get the average age of people arrested for breaking into houses in both the gated community and Seminole county. George seemed to think Trayvon was in his teens.

              You were in the military, right? You’re not going to blow up any federal buildings like McVeigh did in Oklahoma City, right?

              That question pissed you off — didn’t it? You think other people who get profiled are happy about it?

            • I am definitely not happy being profiled. I am a white, middle-aged, professional male with a background in military and security training. I get profiled because I’m white and because I’m male. I get denied opportunities afforded to “protected class” people. When crimes based on hatred of white males occur, hate crime laws do not apply to me because the laws were written only to defend a “protected class.” (Fact: no hate crime charges have ever been prosecuted where the victim was white.)

              Believe me, it bugs me. I’m a male. I can’t be trusted around women. Here’s a stupid story that surprised me. For more than a year, I used the gym and the shower facilities at my office building. The door was never locked. I just go in and shower and go right? It never occurred to me that the women’s shower was locked and women were issued keys to their shower room. I only found out because a woman who was leaving the company left her key with me and explained to me what the key was for. I was like “What? The door’s locked? Why? Mine’s not locked!” Turns out that women need protection from men, but not the other way around. Seems unfair somehow doesn’t it.

              I was actually offended to discover this. Some people think it’s perfectly reasonable. But it would never have occurred to me to enter the women’s rest room. They aren’t normally locked. The only difference between this restroom and others is that a shower is in there. Then it hit me that because I’m male, I cannot be trusted around women behind an unlocked door. What assumptions or presumptions are at play? Well, the woman who gave me the key didn’t think it was “bad” to profile men as potentially dangerous, but that was the explanation she offered…

            • Don’t go blowing up any federal buildings.

              See, it sucks — it really does.

              I am exactly like your description minus the military background. My character and background may have been judged from time to time but to the best of my knowledge, I have never been profiled.

        • This rural “neighborhood” in Michigan established a Neighborhood Watch so that the few surrounding houses could warn “suspicious” people that the area is being watched/protected…by any means necessary.

          http://twitpic.com/9mev9r

          Seems pretty intense, eh? Probably not to a gun owner.

      • I believe if the girl can give testimony as to TM’s demeanor from the time he first incountered GZ up until the fight and also GZ actions it would be huge. No guessing. Woundn’t you think?

        • Agreed. I can’t wait until everybody gets under oath. If/when Zimmerman takes the stand – I can’t imagine him not – it will be like Christmas as a kid for me…times 1,000.

          I don’t have an issue so far with doubting anything Martin’s team has suggested. Are there any true indiscrepancies? I’d love to post them.

          • The boy said “Please” and “Thank you” to the 711 store clerk. His parents were not around, so he was speaking from “compulsion”, it’s what you are taught that is reflected in the way that you act. For example I was taught as a kid to sit up straight. So for many, many years as an adult, I always sat up straight, I still do when I catch myself slumping down in a chair.

            We also used to call people Sir, Mrs and Miss when we were addressing older people, and please and thank you were drummed into our skulls. It became casual and reflexive. Meaning that TM was no thug! So, out goes Zimmerman’s attempt to attribute “smart-alerky” or gangsta talk to TM, he just wouldn’t do it, not if he says please and thank you to store clerks.

            To reach the level of civility where you speak like that to people, who are basically servants, who do not expect it, don’t ask for it and don’t require it, you can not be someone who is generally disrespecting. To get a child to act respectfully, even when a parent is not around, takes long term training and admonishment at every transgression of etiquette over a very long time.

            So now I can judge that TM’s demeanor was respectful and fearful of GZ!
            GZ has shot and killed a very mild mannered child, there is no possibility that he was attacked by such a kid, zero! Such children, raised to be civil and respectful of others, just can’t bring himself to hit an adult no matter what. His only other option is to try to get away, which I believe he did, but was prevented.

            So, in my opinion GZ’s injuries are fabricated somehow and are not obtained from Trayvon. An opinion that is backed up by the lack of evidence of any fight, on Trayvon’s body.

            Which means that GZ has had help! People he knew have come to his aid or otherwise attempted to act on his behalf. This killing by GZ, looks to me to be, something GZ was intent on, but hesitant to do. But he finally managed to get over his qualms and pull the trigger, then let the “chips” fall where they may!
            But, it seems to me, there has to have been somethings in past, in his relationships with police and certain others in the community, that gave him the confidence to go through with it. To do this thing, GZ had to believe that there would be people in position to help him substantially.

            He pulled his gun, without provocation and fired! He was in no danger of anything from this child and he knew it!

      • I’m part of Neighborhood Watch. We are trained: Observe and report. You don’t follow. You don’t confront. And you NEVER carry a gun.

        GZ broke all the tenets.

    • i wonder if zimmerman heard trayvons phone ring and that led him to wherever trayvon was.

38. “He again started walking. she told Trayvon to keep running, but “he said he ain’t gonna run. He said he’s right by his father’s house.”

    “And in a couple minutes, he said the man’s following him again, he’s behind him,” she said. “I say, ‘Run,'” but he replies he’s too tired, breathing “real hard.”

    “Then he tells me the guy is getting close,” she said. “Next I hear, ‘Why are you following me for?'”

    She said she then heard a man’s voice ask, “What are you doing around here?” She calls out, “Trayvon, what’s going on?” but he doesn’t answer. “I hear something like, ‘bawmp.’ … You could hear that somebody bumped Trayvon. Cuz I could hear the grass.”

    So Zimmerman knocked Martin or his phone down to the grass near his father’s house. Then we know the lady next to Taaffe saw a chase between two men, 10-12 in apart, go by her back door towards the top of the T….

    I think the map at the moment is based on GZ and gun buddy Taaffe’s cover story. It doesn’t account for the close chase.

    I think after they got to the top of the T, TM attempted to get away and punched his attacker in the face, knocking GZ to the pavement. TM straddled GZ and slapped him. TM gets up to go home. GZ gets up and pulls him again. TM turns around, sees the gun, lets out the anguished scream, and GZ shoots him in the chest. TM grabs his wound, getting his own blood in his fingernails and moves to run home again. He collapses from the hollow point bullet wound, right on his hands. The bullet has shattered and does not leave an exit wound, instead fragments tear up TMs insides.

    GZ then straddles TM and holds him down, as TM cries for someone to help him and gurgles, making the Taaffe’s neighbor think she might hear Taaffe (the old man next door) having a heart attack.

    As GZ is holding TM down, the blood drips from his head scratch onto the back of TMs hoodie. You can see Zimmerman had his head facing down by the way the blood ran down towards his ear.

    • That’s… uh…. very imaginative.

      That the phone was dropped to the ground is a reasonable assumption but even that detail is not known for certain. Hearing “grass” or the sound of a phone being put into a pocket can be remarkably similar.

      What would be more likely (and I am not purporting this as fact) is that Martin was preparing for a physical confrontation and as part of that, emptying one’s hands for the purposes of readiness would be quite logical.

      What is interesting about the statement by the girlfriend on the phone is that there was dialogue between the two parties. One asks “why are you following?” The other asks “why are you here?” This is a discussion and nothing about it indicates that it needed to go further than that and nothing in the testimony suggests that it did. That the phone was out of Martin’s hand is “likely” but everything after that is pure speculation and imagination.

      And what’s this “they”? “Gun buddy”? Really? Do you imagine people have gun friends?

      • “And what’s this “they”? “Gun buddy”? Really? Do you imagine people have gun friends?”

        This is true. I’ve been to gun events. People of varying backgrounds are brought together only because of their love for guns. The most recent one was awesome — we all got loaded, people talked about guns for a few hours, and I observed.

      • “They” = Taaffe and Zimmerman – the Neighborhhood Watch members.

        Taaffe went on TV to promote his buddy Zimmerman’s cover story, leaving out anything about the close chase witnessed by his next door neighbor.

        Immediately after the shooting, “Gun Buddy” Taaffe asks Zimmerman – “What gun did you use, the 9 mm or the .40?” as if they are casually discussing the shooting of a deer.

        Point is, Taaffe is intimately familiar with Zimmerman’s arsenal. He knew that there were two possible guns Zimmerman might have used. That demonstrates their camaraderie.

        Never mind that there is a dying boy on the ground, moaning, gurgling, and asking for help as he dies (as the next door neighbor said she heard)

        If Martin were preparing for a physical confrontation, why the big sound like blappp.. and why throw his precious phone in the grass? Why not put in his pocket with the skittles and can of tea?

        Also, why is the exchange of words “Far away at first then got louder as it moved closer”… This further confirms a close chase being part of the struggle.

    • The shot would have killed TM instantly (as someone indicated), so it would be unlikely that TM would have done or said anything after the shot.

39. Lots of crime scene photos here:
    http://www.wtsp.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=255685

    • Photo 51 shows markers #5, 6, & 7 close together.

      #5 is a small black flashlight.
      #7 is Trayvon’s phone (and photo 59 shows the phone is next to some square panel in the grass).
      I don’t see any indication of what the #6 marker is for.

    • #6 seems to be indicating the arrow pointing to something in the grass in photo #48. Is something there? Is it the crushed grass?

      The phone on the ground seems to corroborate Dee Dee’s story of hearing their verbal exchange, then the phone was dropped. (If Trayvon jumped Zimmerman, Trayvon would have has his phone in his pocket… not have it in his hand to drop it).

      But I can’t tell where the location of that dropped phone is. Anyone?

      • There is a comment in the police report that an officer was using a metal detector to look for the casing. He got a strong tone where he dropped a market. Another officer found the casing “just inches away” from that marker.

      • Yes. That’s the marker to show where the bullet casing was found in the grass.

    • Check out photos #41 and #44 (GZ’s feet). I don’t know for sure (I’m on my Nook tablet) but it looks like bits of grass are all over the toes, but the heels and cuffs of his jeans are clean. Seems to me there should be a LOT more debris on his heels and grass stains on the cuffs if he’d been on the bottom of a wrestling-type scuffle….

      • I am definitely looking forward to reviewing the crime scene photos this weekend. On a mobile device until Saturday.

    • something i noticed in your link to the crime scene photo’s. At the scene someone took photos of the head wounds as they bled. Zimmerman was cleaned up on the scene and was driven to the police station, we can see that the back of his head has small wounds but they had not bled on the trip to the station, nor did they bleed whilst on camera in the parking garage or as he walked through the corridors…..so why is it that there is blood running down his head in the later photos taken at the police station? hmmmm

      • Hmmmm…Jo, that’s a good question about his head bleeding again…but I do believe that the enhanced video of him arriving at the station did show signs of bleeding.

      • I think we are looking at dried blood on Zimmerman’s head. I have no way of knowing, but the pattern of the dried blood is evidence that the bleeding occurred while Zimmerman was standing/leaning over someone, not underneath someone.

      • yeah tina i did just see one enhanced image that showed some blood, i hadn’t seen it on any of the other stills i’d seen. thanks

      • I have a lot of questions about those bloody head pictures too. If they were cleaned up by the EMTs or cops,( I have heard both), at the scene. how did they get those bloody head photos at the station or were those taken at the scene? They must have been taken at the scene because the EMTs would not have let him leave with the possibility of that much bleeding still occurring. I keep seeing that those photos were taken at the station but this must be impossible. Like Jo say the video at the station shows no such bleeding. Did they have time to take those photos at the scene considering the time in between when the first cop arrived at the scene and the time they arrived at the station. Also the enhanced picture ABC showed of George with all the blood on his head, that was supposedly taken by the person at the scene that GZ asked to call his wife, did anyone else notice how enhanced the blood stains are? That picture was apparently photoshopped and quite different from the evidence photos released.

40. TM’s friends police interview

    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/5/18/i_know_he_was_scared_trayvon

    It’s odd, CNN said TM’s friend said she could hear TM say “Get Off”..”Get Off” befor the phone went dead but in the above video, I don’t hear that. Odd.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/18/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

41. Good day all,
    Im new here and I have read every comment. 🙂 So, with that said, I would just like to give some comments on what I observed from some of the evidence, in particular the 7-11 surveillance video, being that Trayvon is portrayed/assumed to be a “Kind”/”Good” boy in his younger age/years, then a young boy who progresses over the years into a teenage “Thug”.

    Well, I noticed in the video how Trayvon the “Thug” pants were not sagging at the initial approach to the 7-11 counter and his pants only went way below his behind/butt and sagged when he went to retrieve his money to pay for the items he wanted.

    Then, you will see that Trayvon pulls his pants back up before leaving the store and he pulls them “way up” and as he comes back to the other direction you see his pants are still up and not sagging.

    This is a positive action in my humble observation and opinion, as I am a mother who has two children, who are Males, 17 and 23 years of age.
    I have my own story that relates.

    It seems that Trayvon was trying. He was trying to change his ways, to pull his pants up says to me that he did not want to be seen as a “Thug” as his behavior had not been what it should have been,as I know no mother wants their child to behave in that manner, but things do happen, and can happen to any of our children.

    I always have wondered if Trayvons mother had a therapist, counselor, pastor or a mentor for Trayvon, as it is a fact he was in need of some guidance so desperately.

    • Whatever Trayvon’s mother and father were doing – especially as of late – seemed to be working per the descriptions of the 7/11 video that I have read though I haven’t watched it yet.

      Did a clubhouse video come out? Was there anything meaningful seen – I.e. Trayvon’s routes, George’s vehicle, the responding police timing, other activity, etc.?

      • HI, NLME
        This 7-11 video has no sound but you can’t hear much anyway but this one is the clearest and it has 2 angels.

        http://www.theroot.com/buzz/video-trayvon-7-eleven-his-death

        The clubhouse videos came up with nothing, nada. Disappointing

      • Can’t find it. Been looking for it. One thing that has crossed my mind during all of this is that so many people saw Trayvon Martin that night and didn’t find his demeanor to be anything that warranted a call to the police to report suspicious behavior. Only George Zimmerman. Why? Was it the uppers and downers Zimmerman was on that led him to hallucinate and behave aggressively in response to his med-induced hallucinations?

      • common sense that is a really good point. i think george is just looking for a reason to find someone suspicious so he can play cop. that poor kid never knew what was lurking in the dark.

42. Witness 6 (Jon?) has reassessed his hearing/story after applying what seems to be common sense!

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/70011087/News/Witness-6-Heard-yelling-saw-an-altercation-between-Zimmerman-and-Martin

    • Yeah, now he’s saying he assumed the calls for help were from the person on the bottom, because that’s who you’d expect to be calling for help.

      Heck, I can do assumptions from 12,000 miles away. What’s the use of being a witness on the spot if you assume instead of observing??

      At least he’s saved the lawyers the trouble of trying to cast the doubt on his initial statement.

      • i think it’s good he has had the balls to admit he was making assumptions, i suppose it’s an easy one to make. So many people in this case have picked a side and will stick to it no matter how many times they have to twist and turn to make the new evidence fit their agenda, so thankfully this guy realised he had mixed his assumptions with facts when he spoke earlier. Either that or he thinks people are onto him and he’s waving the white flag haha

      • Jo,

        I agree. It’s just so hard for some people to be objective. Maybe that little word “perjury” got “John’s” attention.

        As you know, each witnesses gives their statement under a sworn oath. I really don’t believe any of them want to spend 1 minute in jail for this sociopath.

        • Exactly. Angela Corey is doing a great job making sure everybody has an opportunity to tighten up the loose ends of their stories.

          I think “John” has a little bit more to remember between now and when he takes the stand. I’ve always thought something was a little off with “John” since 3/27 when I first heard his 911 call.

          Meaning, after “John” heard the shot – so, there was no longer a fight – he was a little too casual (ring a bell?) and adamant (I’d NEVER, EVER put myself in the position of being outside during the fight/shooting) about not going to help/see what was up.

          We’ll see.

          • The picture of a man, acting the way he says he did, when witnessing a fight, taking place on his back yard, just does not seem normal. A fight, usually get’s a mans juices flowing, especially when they’re not the target of either subject.
            So, the normal thing to do, absent any weapons being used, is to go over and poke, prod and issue warnings “okay guys break it up”. What guy can resist the chance to sound authoritative and be completely in the right at the same time? As a general rule, it’s these urges to get involved that is the male downfall, not running away, even when we sometimes know that we should.

            This is why John’s admonishments ring so false. The fight presented no apparent danger to him, so why should he be so cautious? Add that he knew GZ, and what do you get?

            Now that I think about it, since GZ was taking so much time shooting TM, I kinda couldn’t help but speculate what if? What if John were part of something sinister? What if his appearance was merely to signal “hurry up GZ, we’re running out of time”, Then, what if, GZ can’t do it? So John takes the gun, shoots, wipes and drops it on the ground, then goes back inside to hide out, and/or make a cya 911 call. Well, in that event, GZ would pick up the gun and put it back in his holster, never touching the trigger again, after it had been wiped.

            That would explain the oddity of GZ not having his fingerprints on the trigger of the gun he owned and used. Of course, theories and speculation are not evidence as we all well know. But, we all know that to formulate theories that may lead to discovery, we have to do the “what if” processes first. Only after doing that, can we then start finding the evidence needed to throw the “what ifs” out.

            “Going deep” will be left to the FBI, who is also re-interviewing witnesses, collecting electronic communications and doing deep background on all involved. As they have said, they will pass their findings along to the SP.
            But this means that the SP doesn’t even have it all. But the FBI isn’t covered by the discovery orders, so they can selectively release to the SP and everyone else. But it seems that “going deep” has uncovered enough to provoke witnesses to change their stories. I wonder what Taaffe’s story will change to? Stay tuned.

            • You never know but wouldn’t Zimmerman just say:

              I was (essentially) holding Trayvon hostage until the police showed up. This guy “John” got all anxious, took my gun, and shot Trayvon.

              I know I’d rather not risk spending 20+ years in jail than be known as the gun toting “hero” that shot a (unarmed) teen in “self defense.”

            • Yes, but that’s because you’re disjointing the timing.

              At the time GZ took the heat, he had the upper hand and the back up apparatus in place. So, if he believed that, then he wouldn’t think he’d
              have to worry much about consequences at that point in time.

              At that point in time he had, everyone who mattered, on his side.
              And it certainly did turn out to be a “cake walk”. At least for the
              first 46 days. So, for and during that time he would be a “superman”,
              and he was as long as things remained under local control.

              The only time that he needed a straight story, came 46 days later, when things heated up on the national scene. Something they never imagined would happen. If not for the national outrage, GZ would still be taking bows locally.

              Now he’s on the griddle, he realizes that he can’t change his story
              yet again. At least not now, or in this way, because that makes it
              a conspiracy to commit murder one. He’s found himself locked in by
              his own admissions.

43. Witness statements:

    – Some witness hears the altercation outside the window. Witness says he hears someone say “I’ve got a gun. I’ve got a gun. Take my gun”

    – Anonymous witness says: George Zimmerman has racist tendencies and that she “stays away from Zimmerman because he’s racist and because of things he’s done to her in the past, but she didn’t elaborate on what happened between them. ‘I don’t at all know who this kid was or anything else. But I know George, and I know that he does not like black people. He would start something. He’s very confrontational. It’s in his blood. We’ll just say that,’’. Supposedly this call is recorded.

    – A former co-worker at Zimmerman’s previous job who gave a statement that Zimmerman bullied him prior to Zimmerman’s firing said that Zimmerman wanted to “get in’’ with the clique at work so he exaggerated a Middle Eastern accent and when talking about him and repeatedly referred to him to other co-workers as a “fucking moron”. The employee told investigators that Zimmerman made reference to terrorists and bombings when talking about him, the man told investigators. The employee said Zimmerman was fired for his repeated calls to HR to complain about other managers and employees.
    —- http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2012/05/17/autopsy-evidence-marijuana-martin-blood/A3rLl2WfLoUBQtyjWFfoYJ/story.html

    —- http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/05/18/486523/audio-witness-says-george-zimmerman-repeatedly-bullied-him-at-work-targeted-him-with-racist-jokes/?mobile=nc

    The FBI is coming for ya, Zim!

    • There could be more voice recognition technology come out once O’Mara has a chance to review their options. The defense may not have many.

44. What is pic #34 at Orlando Sentinel’s pic dump of evidence for?

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-pictures-evidence-photos-released-in-the-shooting-death-of-trayvon-martin-20120517,0,6090406.photogallery

    Who are the two people here (pic #34 at Orlando Sentinel’s evidence release dump)?

    The picture seems to be of a black guy wearing a white thermal and a hat and someone else (possibly a female companion) in a hallway in an apartment community unrelated to the the townhouse community of Retreat where the Zimmerman slaying of Trayvon Martin occurred.

    • Tracy Martin leaving dinner?

    • Or Tracy Marin arriving to ID the body the next morning?

      • yeah it could be, but i think nlme is correct. Even though they weren’t near the crime scene the investigators have to cross off every detail. I think the time stamp at the bottom of the photo says it’s around 10.30 so that matches with what tracy martin told the police.

45. Clearly, if you only grazed over the evidence, you would miss the fact that John never saw the shooting. The two witnesses who do, claim there was no fighting before they heard the pop. I am trying to figure out if they were actually separated.

    • I think being separated at the time of the shot is consistent with:
      -No blood on Zimmerman’s clothes
      -The shot went straight into Martin’s chest (no angle), even though the gun was at least a couple of inches away.
      -Martin’s final position

      • yes and the young boys initial interview said a man was laying on his back yelling like he couldn’t get up, but there was NO ONE ELSE THERE. He turned to chase the dog and heard the shot. Martin must have got away from the struggle and been standing out of sight of this kid. GZ must have pulled the gun out after trayvon had pulled away from the fight, maybe he stood up pointing the gun and shot because he just lost a fight to a teenager and he was pissed off!!! maybe trayvon was shot when he tried to run. But two witnesses say at the time of the shot there was no fighting. Maybe thats murder 2 right there.

      • There’s a way the boy’s evidence could make sense.

        There’s a wrestle, GZ ends on top, pulls the gun, says “stay there and don’t move until the cops get here”. So TM stays on ground but keeps yelling for help. GZ a few steps away, in shadow.

        Then he tries to make a dash for it, GZ grabs his front, shoots. Forensics find shirt looks like contact shot, body looks like intermediate. Body falls face down, arms under (in front from trying to grab the gun or the gun arm).

46. Also adding this to the evidence that Zimmerman and Martin were separated when Z pulled the trigger:

    One witnesses on 3/1 “was adamant that there was no physical fighting at the time when the gunshot rang out”.

    (pg. 41 of the released documents http://www.scribd.com/doc/93960335/Documents#fullscreen).

    Just guessing this is where the prosecutions case will focus: Zimmerman was not in danger of his life at the time he shot Martin.

    • Right you are Sproutlette:
      Here’s the better Autopsy Report:
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/trayvon-martin-autopsy_n_1525763.html

      On Huffingtonpost, they’re having a bit of a field day with everything except the evidence. Seems they don’t realize the importance of NW or how it fits properly into the scheme of things, probably because they haven’t bother to read anything about NW, so they’re just speculating and guessing so wrong. I didn’t bother to wade into that fray, maybe later.

      In any event, I’ll have to track down some of the terms being used “5th intercostal space” for example. But there’s a diagram at the bottom that shows a left of center chest shot. It looks pretty high to have hit the left ventricle, which I believe is one of the two lower heart chambers. I guess the other report I’d read was some sites own reproduction or interpretation, made to seem like it was taken verbatim from the actual report. So much for placing too much faith in them.

      Working with the entrance wound location, it seems pretty darned high on Trayvon’s chest, to have been fired while he was straddling GZ on the ground. Also, (I could be wrong) but the wound path seems to be leftwards and downwards, internally. The hollow point bullet broke apart at some point and the fragments spread. But, there should still be enough evidence of it’s path, left behind before it broke apart, to tell which direction it was moving originally.

      Assuming the heart is below the entrance wound, it seems to me, most likely Trayvon was bending over and leaning forward when the shot was fired. As if GZ was holding onto Martin’s right arm with his left hand, when he brought the gun up to fire with his right. If I’m even close to right, the FBI’s experts will now have enough evidence to give the SP an iron clad case. Since this entrance wound, and a downwards wound path, could only mean that they were both standing, with Trayvon bent over towards GZ and turned slightly, as if trying to pull himself away.

      In any event, as you will easily see by the marked up image in the report, the entrance wound is much to high to be easily reached, with your back on the ground and the victim sitting on top of you. Worse yet, for any such theory, you’d have to overly extend your arm, giving the one on top, irresistible leverage against you getting a viable shot in that position.

      A clue that the other report wasn’t quite as “faithful” was that it mentioned an exit wound, which doesn’t occur because it’s a hollow point round. I’d guess GZ would know that a center chest shot with a hollow point is not a shot, that someone who just fell down, is likely to recover from. The bullet is designed to break apart, even without hitting bone. If the person gets lucky and the fragments don’t strike a vital organ, the person goes down but keeps moving because of the pains. In this case TM’s lungs had collapsed and his heart was torn open. The brain would realize quickly this was fatal and shut down instantly. Yeah, I’ve read about how the brain works to protect one from suffering in the event it detects a fatal wound.

      So, I may have been wrong in the details, but it seems I was right about GZ is toast!

      • Intercostal spaces are the spaces between the ribs.

        When considering bullet entry angles, have a look at the idea that GZ may be left-handed.

        The school yearbook pic showed him cutting a pizza with his left hand, when the photo, IMO, would be better balanced if he used his right (so I don’t think he was posed on purpose using the left hand, I think it’s his natural stronger one).

        IF someone’s on top of you, but not touching chest to chest, you can end up with a downward trajectory and a 9 inch + distance, if you hold a gun up close to your own face. (easy way to get hit with recoil, too). In this case the path would be shallow, more parallel to the front of the chest than at right angles to it. I don’t know to interpret the damage for that.

        That said, the entrance wound can’t be much above the heart, or it would have hit a top part of the heart (where it is wider) instead of the lower ventricle.

        Even shot to the heart, a person would not cease to move immediately. The brain still has some blood supply for a second or so, and signals have already gone out to nerves to perform certain actions. Time enough to stagger a step or two in the originally planned direction.

        Maybe time to grab at the chest from pure physical reaction. But NO TIME to mentally assess what happened and formulate and pronounce a verbal response to it.

        IF and it’s a big if, but IF TM said anything like “you got it”, that was not his last words after being shot. That would be his last words BEFORE being shot, when he lost the struggle for control of the gun. But really, I think his last words were “HELP”.

      • One problem with the above: If they were both standing, Martin was considerably taller than Zimmerman. I would expect a shot then to be upward, not downward.

      • The autopsy said TM was 71″ (5 feet, 11 inches). The wound was 17 inches down from the top of TM’s head so, if he’d been standing, it would be 54″ (4 feet 6 inches) from the ground. According to this police report: http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf Zimmerman was 5’9″. Shoulder height on a guy who’s 5’9″ is roughly 4’8″.

    • But Gilbreath also said Zimmerman’s claim that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager was “not consistent with the evidence we found.” He gave no details.

47. Is it possible to track the route of TM and GZ’s cellphones by GPS? Are the satellite readings tight enough to figure out where they walked? I’ve been looking for a mapped overview of the evidence photos, to find out where Treyvon’s cell phone was found with no luck so far.

    If we take Treyvon’s words to Deedee as his last testimony: he was out of breath and tired because he ran all the way home just prior to the 7:12 pm call from her. Now we suddenly have a completely different scenario than the one George has promulgated. This is the only way Treyvon has to tell his own story, through what he relayed to Deedee while it was happening.

    Treyvon said George was approaching him. This would mean George pursued Treyvon the entire length of the dogpath to confront him at his own doorstep. When challenged by his unknown pursuer, Treyvon would have suddenly become fearful and protective for the kid inside the house. He would have again tried to get away and taken off running with George pursuing him closely. I believe George’s (slight) injuries happened as they finally fell to the ground, perhaps with George grabbing for Treyvon but landing on his own nose. If there was any wrestling he easily could have scrapped his head. This explains the lack of physical evidence of any pummeling on either body, and especially on their hands. It is because the bulk of the elapsing time was spent running, not fighting. It also explains the moving argument, the quiet interlude between arguments, and the two running bodies, as reported by witnesses. Treyvon’s mom said that he was home on the back porch talking on the phone, and Taaffe even showed that George was heading “back to his truck” from far down that dogpath. This is becoming a logical explanation, accounting for far more witness statements than simply using witness #6 (Jon’s) view of events. His statement is no more accurate than other witnesses, yet it has predominated in most reports. And now that he has recanted part of his first statement about who might have been screaming for help, he is even less reliable.

    The gunshot evidence is damning. They had to be standing. The clothing could have “close” powder burns because George held him by his clothes as he shot him. The cringing, screaming boy would have been farther away, at the intermediate distance. It looks like George profiled, hunted, chased down and captured Treyvon. Then George executed him. As said above: he is toast.

48. Wonder if Zimmerman refused nose x-rays and EMT because his nose had been broken prior to this incident? His pics in the suit prior to this incident show his nose looking a little off — no different than it does post-murder.

    You can see the pre-murder pic at

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-23/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-job-20120323_1_robert-zimmerman-source-new-details

    You can see the post-murder pic taken at the police station at

    http://urbanchristiannews.com/ucn/2012/05/police-say-trayvon-martin-situation-could-have-been-avoided-if-zimmerman-had-stayed-in-car.html

    Looks the same to me.

    • It was reported on ABC that the only reason George went to the doctor at all was to get medical clearance to go back to work. George couldn’t have been very hurt. He just wanted everything to go back to normal.

      At the time, the doctor also recommended that George go see a psychologist.

      The pictures of George at the police station show minor injuries only. I can’t see any signs of a broken nose, or black eyes, or even a mussed demeanor.

49. “Path of projectile:
    Skin, left anterior 5th intercostal space,
    pericardial sac
    right ventricle of heart
    right lower lobe of lung”

    Now that I’ve attempted to decode the language, it appears that TM
    was shot, “from above”??? It appears the bullet entered between
    the 4th and fifth ribs and went downwards, breaking up as it went.

    If someone were straddling you on the ground, you’d have to pull them down and push them backwards before taking the shot, with them apparently in the process of lifting themselves from a flat position. Hardly a reasonable construct.

    The other, more likely way is, GZ has TM by the hoodie or arm and TM is bent over, while trying to pull away. Of course the SP has medical experts who will be able to give more precise descriptions of the actions around the wound. But this “ballpark” layman look, should not be too far from the mark.

    The thing we can count on is, the wound is too high on TM to have happened while GZ was on the ground. The direction of the bullet isn’t possible for someone shooting from below.

    I guess they needed to turn TM over, to get some grass debris on his back, to support the story of a fight on the ground. Or something like that, because it’s really weird that nobody can see who is who… yet… One witness can see that the man on the bottom was Hispanic. All of this in the poor light.

    It sounds to me like Taaffe is trying to fulfill some pre-agreed upon obligation, rather than actually trying to help GZ. He is trying to help, he just isn’t aware of the many things he needed to know, to make really helpful remarks. Him and GZ talk “at” each other over time, but not “with” each other. So Taaffe doesn’t know, for example, about the 14 hour course the SPD gave GZ on NW. GZ hasn’t told him about it either, but I’m certain he’d have said things differently if he’d known.

    • Lonnie, your 3rd paragraph is along the same thing I was thinking earlier when I replied to a post on MSNBC about w#6 changing their testimony… here’s what I wrote:

      The witness, isn’t changing the statement that Trayvon was on top…only about who he heard was yelling for help. John (W#6), is finally realizing that it’s not going to look good for him in the end to lie for GZ. Remember, this very same witness was quite ‘adamant’ in both written and recorded statements to the police about who was yelling for help. He gives the impression that he’s right outside his door, so even though it was dark, he had the best ‘hearing’ advantage of any of the other witness. He made it seem like he could clearly hear GZ’s voice calling out. Which if you think about it…if he was that close, unlike the rest hearing from ‘inside’, he couldn’t tell the difference between a grown man’s voice and the screams of a teenager.

      If Trayvon was still on top at time of shooting, it’s my guess that he was screaming for dear life because GZ had already pulled the gun, and he had a good enough grip on Trayvon’s hoodie that he was unable to free himself. Could also explain why GZ didn’t have any defensive wounds to his hands. Gun in one, and holding on to Trayvon with the other. If you think back to father and brother Zimmerman’s account, as given by GZ, he was being beaten so severly that he nearly lost consciousness and Trayvon had his hand covering GZ’s nose and mouth. So at what point was it that the witness, in his inital statement, heard GZ yelling?

    • GZ might not have even needed to have a grip on the hoodie, if he had the gun in his hand. TM may have just frozen at the sight of it.

      (I wrote the following as a reply a few comments up, but maybe I should have put it here instead):

      The autopsy said TM was 71″ (5 feet, 11 inches). The wound was 17 inches down from the top of TM’s head so, if he’d been standing, it would be 54″ (4 feet 6 inches) from the ground. According to this police report: http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf Zimmerman was 5’9″. Shoulder height on a guy who’s 5’9″ is roughly 4’8″.

50. Gee, I feel like Inspector Clouseau, I’m getting to all the right conclusions, with all the wrong evidence lol.

    That said, these odd witness statements, certainly seem contrived some how. I’m getting an impression that some of these witnesses may have been cowed, into giving testimony a certain way. If so, a few are going to be breaking ranks as the FBI begins grinding their way through it.

    I’m going to guess at a few assumptions that could possibly made to explain the confusing situation we have here.

    Is it possible that there are actually no black burglars?
    Is it possible that ill intended people are causing these reports to be filed, claiming that blacks are the culprits?
    Is it possible that a cell of white supremacists/racists, were intending to use this phony crime spree to terrorize the blacks in the community with racially driven “anti crime” work?
    If so, I would not be surprised.

    • Given that so many folk only consider the sensationalized evidence, the prosecution is likely playing on the press’s ability to deliver it and ignore the details. Unless they are specialist, they can’t know how to interpret evidence. All of this superficial interpretations fit his rather generic, superficial self defense plea. GZ is probably filling real comfortable now. I mean to most of us the shot through the heart means a hole was in the heart, but medical examiner can see so much more. The fact that it was straight through the right ventricle tells us the position of the gun wasn’t one where two people are locked together, because that would probably go in sideways under an armpit or through he side. He had to have enough room to point the gun to the chest. Like they say the devil is in the details.

      • The other scenario is that the gun was already out and positioned in between them as they fought. That may be why TM was fighting so hard in the dark.

    • One person was arrested with a stolen lap top in his possession. He was black. These reports were over a period of time. If this was part of a conspiracy, it certainly was subtle.

51. I can’t wait to see the emails that they referred to in the bond hearing. Some cases are solved by what people say after the incident. GZ thought that he’d gotten off, so he probably started firing off to his buddies. I suspect that this may be the racially damning evidence that the FBI is reviewing.

    • Good point. I thought the term email was introduced a little bit strangely during the bond hearing.

    • Wow! I missed that. How long was it? Almost 3 weeks maybe before eveything came down on him.That could be a lot of emails. Good observation! Thanx.

52. Nice conspiracy theory there, Lonnie 😉

    On overall crime statistics, quite likely there were burglaries., although I’d not say it’s a huge number, not exactly a “crime spree”. One a day, one a week, sure. A gated community is dangerous, a good place for a robbery if you can get in, as there is no constantly passing stream of traffic – there’s more privacy, fewer likely witnesses, and all with a false sense of security peole living on a main road don’t have.

    Also on statistics, the culprit is more likely to be black person. The crimes that were reported there were reported by various different people, including some black ones.

    There’s no evidence to say the non-white residents in the estate were being badly dealt with by anyone else living there. That’s not to say it was a big love-fest. Certainly some would have argued, some would have disliked others’ big dogs, noisy kids or loud music. A normal neighbourhood in other words. And a few didn’t like GZ, that’s normal too. (That number’s grown now, I guess).

    • And where are you statistics showing that most burglaries in gated communities are committed by black people? Blacks make up 13% of the U.S. population, so the idea that they commit most crimes in general, and most burglaries specifically, is absolutely preposterous. It is even more ridiculous to make the claim that most burglaries of primarily white suburban homes are black.

      You know, they had this show on called, “to catch a thief,” and if you saw it, you’d notice the real life thieves were most definitely white. My parents have been burglarized twice in their white suburban neighborhood, both times by twenty something white guys.

      Basically, your statement that thieves are more likely to be black is a complete work of fiction, absolutely racist, and built solely on incorrect stereotypes, not any factual evidence whatsoever.

      Beyond this, even if your insanely racist statement were true, it still would not justify calling the police on every young black person in the neighborhood. http://censuschannel.net/cc/news/neighborhood-demographics-of-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-1579 As you can see, there is a small but still significant number of black families in the neighborhood. Despite what you may believe, the majority of people, regardless of race, are not drug dealers, burglars, or car thieves. It would be vastly inappropriate and unconstitutional to follow and interrogate every person of any race because a small minority of said race was of a criminal element.

      Most crimes against white people are committed by white people. Most crimes against black people are committed by black people. People typically don’t wander into strange neighborhoods where they look out of place in order to commit crimes. Doing so would almost certainly get them caught. Criminals that don’t get caught on their first attempt typically commit crimes in neighborhoods they know well, typically their very own neighborhood. They also know to commit these crimes in areas where their presence does not raise suspicion and garner unwanted attention. A predominantly white neighborhood in a gated community with homes in close proximity (town homes) and wide open lawns without significant shrubbery and/or trees for cover would be an absolutely astonishingly terrible choice for a teenage black kid to attempt to rob. On the other hand, a white/Hispanic teenager that lives in the neighborhood, knows who is out for the night or on vacation, knows which neighbors are nosy, knows the patrol schedule of the security, and is recognized and does not raise suspicion of the local neighborhood watch…. well that sounds far more likely, and far less likely to get caught.

      • Taaffe claims the neighborhood was infested with black males breaking in their homes, he would most likely be the thief seeing how in 2000 he did 9 months for theft. Oh and HLN checked out the claim of the break ins. There were 8 burglaries to the neighborhood in 395 days as a result there are 4 complaints against blacks males, as for the other 4 these were crimes with no witness and did not identify suspects race. This came from Sanford police. Taaffe claimed there were 8 in 13 months. Wouldn’t it be something if Taaffe is the thief. He has a lot of nerves. But as I said before he is looking to make money off of George. Zimmerman also had never stopped a crime from happening nor is there a witness to Taaffe house ever being burglarized, when the police arrived after Zimmerman called about a suspicious black male, the police stated there was not a suspect when they arrived. Funny how Taaffe is really helping prosecution prove racism . This article can be found on headline news hlntv.com. I googled taaffe and burglarie, that is how I found this. Taaffee said in an interview back in March that George stopped the burglary of his home, the thief tried to go through a window he left open. Does anybody find that strange that he felts so unsafe he left windows open? Also go to mediaite.com and look for Soledad grillszimmermans neighbor.

      • riisey –

        I think you’re right. I hadn’t gotten around to asking about it yet, but it seems to me that the burglaries increased once Zimmerman and his side-kick Taaffe became neighborhood watchers. Also, George Zimmerman is the initiator of the Neighborhood Watch program for that community. Could have been a great cover for somebody wanting to do bad stuff. Zimmerman was totally in chum up to neighborhood police mode and also had snowed the HOA folks enough to have them make multiple mentions of him as the NW contact person even though the Neighborhood Watch program says the community’s program was never registered officially.

        • I think you might find this interesting:

          Click to access colorofcrime2005.pdf

          Despite the obviously smaller percentage of the population, the rates of specific crimes of violence and property are notably highest among blacks followed by hispanics. Amusingly interesting and most predictably, asians account for less than whites. It tends to follow a variety of stereotypes such as those associated with education and family strength.

          As preposterous as certain things may seem, they only seem preposterous because we want to believe what we are told about a variety of things about equality. We accept easily that in some respects, black people are superior to white people. We make jokes like “white men can’t jump” and like that. That’s not an area we are uncomfortable with. But when it comes to other aspects, we tend to quietly back away from conversations which deal with these frightening issues. And yet we know a lot about genetic predispositions to behavior such as in the case of the Kennedys were risky behaviors and addiction are commonly identified.

          If we are to understand ourselves as humans, ALL humans, we must acknowledge things about ourselves. Many of them fly against our most idealistic beliefs and values. It can only be by acknowledging our weaknesses, we will be able to overcome them. Conversely, by ignoring and denying our weaknesses, we are dooming ourselves to persist them.

          • Not in a snarky tone but what you’ve posted as been debated for decades. Yes, a higher percentage of some crimes are committed by African Americans. Then again, more African Americans live in poverty, have less access to pricey defense teams, and are targeted more frequently by law enforcement.

            More specifically, do you have any data regarding the crimes committed recently in the gated community? How about Seminole County?

            A commenter stated there were 8 crimes reported in the gated community over the last 13 months. 4 of those were said to be committed by African Americans and the race was unidentified in the other 4. I’m not sure of the above’s accuracy but it’s a starting point.

            • Even based on that small sampling, a trend is visible. A MINIMUM of 50% of a particular crime is identified as being committed by black people. The other 50% is undetermined… so let’s go with the other half is done by white people. Where the population is “black minority” it doesn’t fit that rates are equal in any sense.

              Providing all other things such as “living in poverty” and access to other resources an completely apologist. Other “disadvantaged” groups do not display similar trends. READ the PDF I linked above. The notion that law enforcement “targets” black people has been debunked by statistics and studies all over. (You may think you know what it says already, but the speed of your reply indicates that you didn’t read it or that you read amazingly fast. I’m inclined to believe the former, but I will accept it if you were to tell me you really did read that quickly.) Trends of behavior mostly match culture and cultural values rather than economic status. In fact, attempts to connect economic status tend to show the worst behaviors are exhibited by people with the most resources, not the least.

              http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney

              This article is rather enlightening and goes a long way to show our human tendencies to belief over fact. And the studies which consistently showed that people will discard their own knowledge in favor of social ideas, beliefs and fact. (My favorite is the often repeated experiment where a test subject is placed with actors who are instructed to answer questions incorrectly. The result has been consistently that the subject would answer and even believe along with the actors even when the answers are quite obviously incorrect.)

              http://news.yahoo.com/rich-people-more-likely-lie-cheat-study-suggests-200402203.html

              The study mentioned above even attempts to cover the causation/correlation issues by placing subjects into situations where they might feel relatively inferior and relatively superior in terms of social and financial ranking and showed behavioral shifts as the subjects shift positions.

              Discussion and studies linking genetics and behavior may be “old hat” and the tendency may be to criticize the validity of such ideas, but facts seem to support it and have done so for a very long time.

            • I read some of it. As mentioned, what you’ve posted has been debated for decades.

              I’d like to look at both the gated community’s and county’s crime rates. Along with race – and the following is important – we also need to look at the age of offenders since Zimmerman was targeting/profiling a black male in his teens.

              My intentions are to see if individuals fitting Trayvon’s description were more or less likely to commit crimes in the gated community as compared to data for the entire county. But, as you originally mentioned a few days back — not that this really matters since profiling is never justified in my opinion.

          • A little suspicious coming from you Daniel, in light of what you’ve previously been writing. Of course, we all know that the black population is harassed into taking low paying jobs. They are disciplined very much more harshly in school, discriminated in public and generally oppressed as a population. Hardly a wonder then, that police are constantly stopping and searching them, and arresting them on charges they’d let other people walk on, even if they did bother to stop and search them. We have that kind of problem here in NYC, where the stop and search program has resulted in 800,000 blacks being stopped and searched each year, filling the prisons with pot possession cases.

            But let’s put that aside. Let’s just look at the community in question! Do you really think this community presents opportunity to unskilled burglars? We had a “ninja burglar” on Staten Island here, an Asian who burgled dozens of houses over several years time and was only recently caught, because of the high levels of skill he employed. He is believed to have stolen quite a fortune, having hit very prosperous estates that were alarmed to boot.

            My lay assessment of this community is that it would rank very low down on the scale of “approachable” targets to un or low skilled burglars. Anyone of them who tried it, would have been moved out of sheer desperation to try it. They’d be caught before they “hit” more than one or two residences.

            That leaves me to believe that although the reports were going up, the number of actual arrests either stayed the same or went down. These “gated communities” to the more educated people, don’t represent bastions of wealth!
            The house values are too relatively low for the residents to have much of anything worthy of attracting your “Pink Panther” style burglar. You’re much more likely to lose a bike from your back porch, than jewels from your bedroom.
            Not that there are likely many jewels worth stealing in this community. I doubt sincerely you’d even find one Rolex watch in the entire estate hold.

        • Yes, and you can add to that, that both GZ and Taaffe are the source of at least two burglary reports. I can’t remember where I read that, but it was from some tally of the SPD crime reports about The Retreat. That’s what started me thinking that, perhaps it was some group at The Retreat who were pushing to get the NW program started.

          Looking at the lay of the land at that gated community, you wouldn’t think it’s such an ideal place for burglaries. The sight lines aren’t ideal for such activities.
          The layout isn’t exactly great for breaking and entering and carrying things away. Too many open spaces, to easy to see any house from many other windows, both front and back. Thus the ideal approach would probably be to enter by car, park in the driveway and load from as close to the house as possible, then drive away.

          Burglars like to know that people aren’t home, but there’s no easy way to figure that out here. The mailboxes are near the clubhouse, so no mail piling up at the door. There’s little opportunity to do any surveillance without being seen.
          The point being, burglarizing this community is going to take more skill than the average run-of-the-mill criminal has, of the kind you see wandering around the streets. So that makes me suspect of these crime reports, they just don’t figure quite so reflexively.

      • daniel you seem to hell bent on bring race into every discussion here. Please give it a rest. Trayvon Martin was not committing any crimes so your stats don’t matter and Zimmerman had no right to follow him based on what he might do….a man in a business suit MIGHT commit a crime, so MIGHT a mother of 3. But so far there is nothing to show martin was doing anything other than walking down the street.

      • @ Jo –

        I can’t add a thing to your analysis of how crime works except that I know. I know. I have seen children set up to be self-fulfilling prophesies of who they are supposed to be. It’s a problem because it renders our education system and the goals of civil rights to be a waste. Shouldn’t be that way, but that’s all we’re going to get until somebody has the balls to call a spade a spade and make the judicial system really equally accessible to all. Justice should be separate from capitalism in a truly just society.

    • There were complaints against Zimmerman:

      A volunteer community watch captain who shot an unarmed Florida teenager to death last month had been the subject of complaints by neighbors in his gated community for aggressive tactics, a homeowner said.

      George Zimmerman has not been charged in the Feb. 26 shooting of Trayvon Martin, 17, who was walking home from a convenience store in Sanford, Fla., near Orlando. Zimmerman, who patrolled the Retreat at Twin Lakes development in his own car, had been called aggressive in earlier complaints to the local police and the homeowner’s association, according to a homeowner who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

      At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics” in his neighborhood watch captain role.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

      and

      “He came by here and talked about carrying guns and getting my wife more involved with guns,” he said. “He said I should have a weapon and that his wife took classes to learn how to use one.

      “I do have a weapon, but I don’t walk around the neighborhood with mine!”

      Actually, he does not walk around the neighborhood at all.

      “I fit the stereotype he emailed around,” he said. “Listen, you even hear me say it: ‘A black guy did this. A black guy did that.’ So I thought, ‘Let me sit in the house. I don’t want anyone chasing me.’ ”

      For walks, he goes downtown. A pregnant Quianna listened to her husband’s rationale, dropped her head, and cried.

      “That’s so sad,” she said. “I hope our child doesn’t have to go through that.”

      Travis Williams, a black 16-year-old who wears dreadlocks, said last year a man came to his house and accused him of stealing a bicycle. The police even came and checked the serial numbers on the bike in his garage.

      Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html#storylink=cpy

      An email was sent to residents to be wary of young black men. IMO, Zimmerman and Taaffe ran around the neighborhood in an official capacity scaring the hell out of the residents over property crime. There seems to be a history of bitterness that blacks (great-grandfathers withstanding) lived in the neighborhood. This was due to the down turn in the economy. Racial resentment and profiling was definitely in the mix.

53. I posted this at the older page, but I should probably repost it here.

    These are text/searchable copies (ocr) of the recently released (as of this writing, May 20, 2012) court docs.

    Here’s where I got the links.

    And these are the versions available.
    pdf version (ocr — optical character recognition — is searchable).

    Click to access trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

    text (searchable) version.
    http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.txt

    Thanks for all your work on this, guys.

    -rs

    • Nice — thank you! I’ll be reviewing these soon.

    • Thank you! This is just what I’ve been looking for.

    • Something puzzling to me I’m noticing and wonder if someone else can shed some light…reading pg.20 of investigator Serino’s report. It says that can of iced tea had fallen out of victims sweatshirt pocket during CPR…also had skittles and lighter in pockets and headphones next to him…now if I recall correctly, he was given tan plastic bag and put items in it before leaving 7-11. Evidence photos also show tan plastic bag in the grass. If Trayvon was intending to put items in his pockets why ask for a bag? How did those very same items end up on his person but the bag laying in grass empty? Also how is it the can of tea managed to stay in his hoodie pocket during the vicious beating he was supposedly giving GZ?

      • OK, so I watch video in full screen mode and notice that he does put candy in pocket of hoodie…but tea is in the bag.

      • Initially he may not have wanted to put the tea in his pockets and get it warmed up. But if you’ve ever walked in rain carrying a shopping bag, you’d know the bag starts to collect water, and you have to have your had/arm exposed to the rain, too. So maybe when the rain got heavier he put the drink in a pocket and ditched the bag.

        Evidence dump (p 16/183) officer Raimondo says he asked for some plastic wrap and vaseline ( to seal the wound) and “An Asian male returned with a plastic grocery bag……”

        That is likely the bag found at the scene.

54. I’ve been off the case for a few days and came back yesterday night. I’m impressed by the amount of data that has been put out. I still have to digest it all. It’s going to take some time. Anyhow, I have a few comments to make.

    1) TM at the 7-11
    1a) He has a normal demeanor. There is nothing with him suspicious. He his polite. The 7-11 cashier and TM have a normal interaction.
    1b) It is 6:22 so he must have left for home by 6:30 and therefore could have been home by 6:50.
    1c) I noticed that he walks at a good pace. A very slow pace could have been seen has being on drug. It’s not the case. It also confirms that he could have been home before 7:00.
    1d) I finally could see TM’s hoodie. It really is dark, almost black. I really have a hard time believing that it could be confused with a white t-shirt. GZ wore a light-grey t-shirt under his red jacket. That one could more easily be confused with white.
    1e) TM’s hoodie has a large button on it as stated by GZ in his police call. I was wondering if GZ was referring to a buttoned hoodie. But in fact it might be a pullover hoodie. If that’s the case, it couldn’t be open and removed so easily during the fight. In any case, I couldn’t see if there is a white t-shirt under the sweater.

    2) DeeDee was on the phone with TM all the way from the 7-11 to the shooting. I made the hypothesis in an earlier post that she hasn’t witness anything before TM ran. I was wrong. He told her everything in life. I knew from TM’s phone log that he indeed had several calls during that day, but I couldn’t tell with whom. Now, we know.
    2a) She states that TM spent time sheltering from the rain at the mailboxes. Which may explain why he wasn’t yet home at 7:09. It also kills my hypothesis that TM was followed by GZ in the gated community prior to his call to police. So, the competing hypothesis that someone (F. Taaffe) tipped GZ becomes more likely else I have don’t understand why GZ would take the most complex way from home to the north entrance. That way goes through streets he even doesn’t know the name as he demonstrated by his inability to give proper directions to police.
    2b) She states that GZ stared at TM from his truck all the time before that chasing.
    2c) After running, TM lost GZ but then was out of breath. This is why he refused to run after GZ cornered him. This is consistent with a long time span between the running and the scuffle. This also confirms that TM lost GZ by taking a longer way between houses before walking south on the back path where GZ cornered him and forced him to walk back north.

    3) GZ’s police call is placed at 7:11 in the files bundle. This is a shock to me. I still have the 911 call history that clearly states:
    a) Connection: 19:09:34
    b) Created: 19:11:12
    c) 19:11:59 “Subj Now running Toward back entrance of complex”
    d) 19:13:12 “Compl will 1056 [meet] at mailboxes of complex”
    e) 19:13:41 “Compl now request LEO 1045 [call] before 1056 [meet]”
    Knowing that the call lasts 4min & 7sec. If the call was placed at 7:11:12, dispatcher would know TM was running before 7:13:19, and GZ would change his mind at 7:15:01 and only then ask for being called by LEO . I hate that kind of discrepancies and I keep. So, I stick to the 7:09:11 which is consistent with c, d & e.

    4) “John” retracted meaning he is not sure anymore whether the cries for help were from GZ. He admits that this was an assumption he made. All other witnesses believe the cries were from a younger man.

    5) Somewhere in the bundle it’s written that the gunshot was at 7:17. That confirms my evaluation as I wrote in previous post (I have at least a few things right).

    6) TM was killed by a gunshot to the heart. I’m not a specialist but it seems very unlikely that he could say “You got me” before collapsing. My best guess is that he went through an immediate shock stopping his screaming, passed out, collapsed and died in the following minute.

    It looks to me like GZ drew his gun at a very early stage of the fight triggering a fight for it. TM & GZ would have fall to the ground with TM on top. There is a cut to TM’s hand but no bruises that could indicating he was punching GZ repetitively for 1min. There is zero indication GZ was fighting back by punching TM. There is no bruises on GZ’s hands or harms suggesting he was protecting himself from punches. The only explanation I can give is that he had his hands busy grabbing something while being hit.

    • Trayvon Martin also had on a light grey nike sweatshirt under his grey fruit-of-the-loom dark gray hoodie. It doesn’t seem at all that his hoodie exposed what he was wearing underneath because both his shirt had a bullet hole through them. That info is found on page 122 of the evidence. (FDLE items 15 and 18, Agency exhibits 8 and 12).

      • nice input. Thanks

    • Yes, and then if HE was busy grabbing something, so would TM have been… therefore not punching. Well probably a bit of both, try to grab the hand/arm with the gun in it, then try to punch to distract him or keep him down.

      GZ never told anyone he was fighting back. Told the family his nose and mouth were covered and he feared for his life, but nothing about trying to struggle, break free, hit back or anything. Which you could do even if being muzzled. In fact the sensible thing would be to grab at the hand over your mouth and try to bend the fingers back.

      But nothing. He made no attempt to defend himself at all EXCEPT by immediately choosing the deadly force option. So, he already feared for his life when the first blow was just approaching his face?

      What if he drew the gun DOWN NEAR TM’s house? ordered him to go up the path to the truck (and expected police) ??? still without saying who he is? then TM decides to ask him one more time who the hell he is, and tries to grab for the gun? the cheek of the suspicious ***** to still argue when held at gunpoint?

      • Is it possible to even have a struggle and not have DNA somewhere on your hands etc? They didn’t find any on TM.

    • Anybody know what was on Trayvon’s large button seen in the 7/11 video?

      Note: I still haven’t reviewed the evidence dump (in the event the button’s description was mentioned there). 😦

      • It was a photo pin. Apparently these are pins people wear with pictures of someone who has died. It is considered a gang practice in Florida.

        • Photo pins are really popular. I’m not sure if they’re considered gangster though. Anybody know what was on the button? Not that it really matters — just curious.

      • I’m also curious about who Trayvon’s photo pin is in memory of, but haven’t found anything. He seems to want to keep people in his memory between the tattoos and the pin. Now he’s in many more people’s memories and on many more pins than he would ever have expected.

        And I’m curious how Will Taaffe died since he was 21 at the time, had the very strange quote on his MySpace page, and Zimmerman mentioned him all these years later.

      • I can’t remember exactly, but I think there was an interview with the Martin family that mentioned Trayvon Martin wearing a pin of his grandmother.

55. Cool As A Cucumber (from Frederick Leatherman Law Blog) – report of George’s remarkable coolness in a time of stress.

    When an EMT checked Zimmerman in the patrol vehicle at 7:41 pm his pulse, blood pressure, and all of his vital signs were normal. Here is his report:

    Assessment 1941 [7:41 pm]

    Patient Conscious
    Breathing Quality Adult Normal 12-20 [which is normal, not panting or out of breath]

    No External Hemorrhage noted; Mucuous Membrane Normal

    Central Body Color Normal

    Extremities Normal

    Within Normal Limits (Airway, Breathing Quality, Accessory Muscle Use, Chest Rise, Radial Pulse, Skin Temp, Skin Moisture [not sweating], Skin Turgor [not showing signs of dehydration], Cap Refill [blood circulation is normal], Pupil Size and Reaction.

    Cause of Injury [to Zimmerman]: Struck by blunt/thrown object. (9640) [Emphasis supplied]

    Mechanism of Injury: Blunt

    Patient says he was assaulted and his head was struck on the pavement.

    Pt’s GCS = 15 [Glascow Coma Scale, which is a level of consciousness scale and 15 is normal] and he is warm and dry with normal skin color. Pt has abrasions to his forehead + bleeding/tenderness to his nose and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding. Pt also denies LOC [loss of consciousness], neck/back pain, and he has + PMS [pulse motor sensory function] X 4 [in all extremeties] with – paresthesia [no tingling]

    [That means his pulse, motor, and sensory functions were all okay and functioning normally]

    • Psycho behavior? I can buy that.

56. I also thing that he direction of the projectile is actually going to be key in this particular case. If you do an analysis of entry from front to back, it is more consistent with George being left handed, but it is not consistent with them being locked into a fight. It is more consistent with George being over him somehow or them both standing as I think Marilyn and a few others have mentioned. I don’t think that they were standing, but I do think that George regained the upper hand, but his fear and anger toward this kid made him pull the trigger. Clearly, the prosecution doesn’t have to explain to them how they fit the pieces of evidence together.

    • As we’ve heard, the screams for help go right up until the shot. And, if they’re not Zimmerman’s, that means Trayvon probably wasn’t overly mobile when Zimmerman pulled the trigger.

      • I’ve got a graphic that shows the 5th intercostal space location LINK You’ll also find the autopsy report
        link there. You can compare the entrance wound to the path the bullet took.

      • Just to be clear, regarding the graphic: The autopsy report noted that the entrance wound was 1 inch to the left of anterior midline (‘anterior midline’ is an imaginary line that would divide the breast bone into 2 equal halves) so the wound was approximately in line with the dots marked ‘P’, ‘E’, and ‘T’.
        Also, the coroner noted that the entrance wound was round, and that the lead core of the bullet was recovered in the pericardial sac (which is a sac that surrounds the heart) behind the right ventricle. That means that the path of the bullet was straight front-to-back. (Plus, if the bullet had come in on any kind of oblique angle, the entrance wound have been more tongue shaped, and the stippling would have been concentrated on one side, and feathered out on the other, so the coroner should have described it as ‘elliptical’ or something.)

        Also, Trayvon standing when he was shot would still be consistent with why he ended up face-down. Either he fell forward, or the force of impact spun him around.

    • A funny thing occurred to me, maybe it’s just stuff running together, but:
      GZ is harrassing TM, and it seems to me he has good opportunities to take the shot, but he seems to be stalling. Then a witness appears and yells at them, that he’s calling the cops. The witness says he then went upstairs to call 911. But we have only his word for it that he does this.

      He supposedly hears the shot as he’s heading upstairs. Is he the same guy who comes back outside and takes the picture of GZ’s head? If so, it has to be before the Police get there, because the police took some time to question GZ before disarming him. After which he put GZ in handcuffs and took him to the car. But, someone here says it looks like GZ is on the phone when the picture is taken. If so then the police had not yet arrived.
      Then someone is showing no fear of the armed shooter.

      Is it me or does it seem strange that these witnesses, who are GZ’s neighbors, don’t seem to know that he’s the NW Captain? Hadn’t they seen him at the meetings?

      • Lonnie,

        These were questions I had when the ‘bloody head’ photo first surfaced and was said to have been taken by a neighbor. Initially, I thought it to be neighbor Jon (recanted wit#6), but reading through evidence dump, there’s another male neighbor who it seems lives few doors down that hears commotion, then comes out with flashlight (remember, several witness recall seeing someone with flashlight, including John).
        He also stated in his audio statement that GZ appeared winded as if he’d just gotten his but whooped. Now, what’s not clear to me is if this is possibly ‘Jeremy’, whose girlfriend was on with 911 when shots fired and hear her saying for him to come back up stairs. I believe page 87 and 103 of evidence dump are their statements.

        It was Frank Taffee that stated he knows the person that took photo and he’s a friends with GZ. It does look like there’s phone to his ear…and no the cops hadn’t gotten there at that time. Reports state they arrived approx 7:17, but that’s when they entered the complex and weren’t yet behind the row of houses. Photo time stamp is around 7:19, so they arrived shortly afterwards.

        Not sure how acquainted these particular neighbors were with him…reading emails about the NW program, only about 25 people showed up to the meeting.

57. Here is the latest TM 7-11 video with a Zimbo fan twist. The store clerk did seem to keep a eye on him but I say big deal.

    • Sure he does the same for any young black male…nothing new about that. Actually goes to show he had same preconceived and unwarranted suspicions as GZ.

      • I dont think he was that fearful he turned his back on him. I would be suspicious of everybody if I worked at a convenience store.

      • I didn’t see anything in the store clerk’s behavior to indicate he was suspicious about Trayvon Martin. The store clerk seemed at ease to do other stuff his job entails and isn’t following Trayvon or paying much attention accept to make sure he’s back at the check-out counter when Martin is finished gathering what he intends to purchase. Good customer service personell probably does that sort of thing.

        • A commenter (Lonnie Starr) previously mentioned the courtesy Travyon displayed during the 7/11 video. I’ve only seen clips without audio (but haven’t done much digging around). Was there lip reading done on the footage, did the clerk mention his politeness, and/or is there a version with audio that I haven’t watched yet?

          • I think that was me, I picked it up on another blog where they said the clerk had been interviewed later. Not much of a stretch there, since the clerk did work at the store where the videos were retrieved. He also could have been on the phone as well, so whoever he was talking to might have heard it. Though I haven’t seen it turn up in official reports yet. But I suspect they will, as will other evidence of TM’s demeanor.

      • Like clerks in most convenience stores, he will be held responsible for “inventory shrinkage”, so he’ll follow even white customers, who the legends say steal even more than blacks do. Probably because there’s less chance they’ll be subjected to much aggravation if caught, so they’ll be bolder about it.

        In total this video proves nothing. TM’s did not steal anything! He paid for his purchases and left. The clerk did just what he’d probably do for anyone in the store while he’s all alone. He’s got to watch because even good customers can help themselves if he doesn’t. Without sound, those jerky movements could just as easily have been comraderie as anything else.

58. Who brought the first aid kit to the crime scene and why is it marked as evidence and owner unknown? It’s on page 6 of the evidence dump.

    First aid was administered by SFD in the back of a SPD police car, right? Why was this first aid kit found in the grass where the murder occurred? What was in this kit? Could the kit’s contents have been used to inflict vertical cuts/wounds to the back of the Zimmerman’s own head?

    SPD took no picture of the back of Zimmerman’s head at the crime scene. That information appears in multiple places in the document dump, but page 18 of the evidence dump is the first place I found it. Officer Michael Wagner took the pictures of both Trayvon Martin’s face and George Zimmerman’s face, but didn’t take a picture of Zimmerman’s head injuries. Is this standard police procedure? Why would he not take a picture of the injuries he noted in his report, which incidentally was dated of 3/24/12 — almost a month AFTER the incident?

    • Actually, the photos were added to the report on 3/22/12 by Officer Serino as mentioned in page 64 of the evidence dump.

    • I reviewed the evidence dump last night — I’m guessing the kit was brought to the responding officer that asked a bystander for some Vaseline.

      • Could be, but I have never bought a first aid kit that came with vaseline in it. I saw some headline that mentioned twizzers were in the first aid kit. Didn’t read it, but will revisit.

        I just don’t understand why a first aid kit was marked as evidence. What comes in those kits? I can’t remember, but I think gauze and antibiotic ointment (maybe) and band-aids and alcohol/antiseptic swabs. Some come with scissors.

        I don’t understand vaseline and twizzers being there.

        • I’d personally just grab anything in my medicine cabinet that the responding officer could use. But, I know what you’re saying.

          Kit as it’s sold today…

          http://www.shoplet.com/Johnson-Johnson-All-Purpose-First-Aid-Kit/JOJ8123/spdv

          Similar to the one in the evidence dump…

          

      • It doesn’t say owner unknown. It says “owner not entered” (on the records) as it does for many items (including where the owner is clearly known, eg the money found in TM’s pocket). It rather looks like they only put “owner” when it’s an item that’s going to be tested for something?

        The first aid kit, blanket, even used gloves lying around, are entered in evidence only because they were found at the scene. This doesn’t mean they will be in any way vital. They just record everything they find and where it was, and sort out meanings later.

59. Who was the “white male standing inside the crime scene standing next to the log officer” who was asked to leave the crime scene by Officer Joseph Santiago. (Page 16 of the evidence dump.) Taaffe, Jon, Jeremy, unknown picture-taker?

60. O-M-G! Did Zimmerman turn over the body and start feeling Trayvon Marin up in order to see if the bullet went through Trayvon Martin’s body? Had the bullet exited the body, Zimmerman would have to find it -OR- formulate his alibi around it. If no exit wound, he would feel he had more leeway to claim anything he felt was reasonably believable.

    • I think that GZ was looking for a gun and realized he had to make up a story fast when there wasn’t one.

    • I believe when Mary Cutcher and her roommate Selma Mora Lamilla first got outside and saw GZ, what they saw was GZ frisking TM,disparately looking for a gun, a knife, any kind of weapon he could say TM threatened him with. In the video with Anderson Cooper You hear Mary say that when they first saw GZ he was on top of TM with one knee on each side straddling him and pressing on his back with his hands, but about 5 or 6 weeks ago I
      watched what I believe was the same video that had at about the very end, Cooper said something to Mary and Mary kind of snaped back in a excited way and asked “then why was he running his hands up and down TM’s body like that?” At the same time she put her hands up in the air and was moving them up and down. Then she said it was just really strange because he didn’t seem to be trying to help TM. Right then a bell went off in my head but Cooper didn’t ask Mary to elaborate on it and I don’t know why. I played it over and over about 6 or 7 times so I know what I saw and heard but where did it go? I wonder why it didn’t dawn her or Cooper what GZ (may) have been doing. It just seems logical to me.Again where did that part go? The media drives me crazy.

      • could also explain why he didn’t respond to them when they asked several times, “What’s going on over there…everything ok?”

      • Jim,

        Just realizing now after reading over Ms. Cutcher statement the following comment, “from the distance I could not tell the color of his skin. I also could not tell if he was trying to find something in his pockets”. When I initially read this I thought she meant GZ was looking for something in his own pocket. But now it makes perfect sense why, after he ‘frisked’ Trayvon’s body(which he certainly had no business doing!), he stepped back, put his hands to his head…then walks back over to look at the body, realizing in that very moment, “OH SH^T, I dun F’d UP NOW!”

        After looking at the body for few mins, he walks away toward the road but the cops showed up…I wonder, if for a split second he thought about fleeing, but then remembered he was one that initiated first 911 call. Delusions of grandeur out the window…no news headlines to read, “NW Captain, a Hero! Shoots armed criminial!”

      • Tina
        I think you hit the nail on the head. Mary said she got the impression that GZ just wanted her and her roomate to go away And I think he knew he got cought frisking TM so he was wondering what did they see? what did they hear?

        As far the wandering off goes, I heard a interview with a witness about 5 weeks ago and I can’t find it now and I can’t remember who but she said she found it really strange the way GZ was walking up and down the walkway. She said it just seemed odd the way he was doing it. What I believe he was doing was looking for his cellphone that he lost when the fight broke out. I believe he had it in his hand because he was expecting a call from the SPD at any second. And I still believe GZ went to pull his gun to detain TM until the SPD got there. Just a shot in the dark, I could be wrong.

        • Zimmerman’s reaction is consistent with anyone – especially with ADD – intently focused on whatever they’re doing and not wanting to be bothered by “noise” not pertaining to their “mission.”

          Source: Somebody with ADD. Ha!

          Moreover, it’s going to be really difficult for Zimmerman to let a jury of his peers determine his innocence or guilt. REALLY DIFFICULT. His testimony – he definitely won’t be taking the 5th – on the stand is going to be downright manic if the prosecution does their job. O’Mara better have Zimmerman hopped up on adderall (or equivalent).

      • Jim, This the interview you are referring to?

        http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anderson-cooper-interviews-witnesses-to-trayvon-martin-shooting/

        At the 1:30 mark, Cutcher does her hand wave thing. Hard to tell what she’s saying.

      • @Jim –

        After listening to the full audio of Selma and Mary, I heard them say they also thought Zimmerman was “checking his [Trayvon Martin’s] pulse”. That could be the reason the hands were found in an un-natural position.

        I think Zimmerman pushed Trayvon Martin’s hands under his body to conceal Zimmerman’s attempts to put Trayvon Martin’s prints/dna on Zimmerman’s gun.

        I think Zimmerman tampered with other evidence as well.

        Selma and Mary are witnesses 5 and 16 according to this link: http:// [redacted]. axiomamnesia. com/people/witnesses/

61. The witnesses saying Zimmerman was on top and/or Trayvon screaming for help seem to be of diverse ethnicities — perhaps White, Black, Hispanic and possibly others. The witnesses don’t seem to be a “black lynch mob” that’s being presented by the media.

62. Interesting article from WaPo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trayvon-martin-case-911-call-two-experts-reach-two-much-different-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html

    It places the gunshot time to the second: 7:16:56.

    It is more precisely an article about experts try to extract information from the back ground cries heard in Jennifer Lauer’s (Jeremy Weinberg’s girlfriend) 911 call.

    The two experts reach different conclusions but not opposite per say.

    The 1st expert (Alan Reich) a retired U of Washington professor could identify two voices: One older, assertive and in control, and the 2nd one younger, frightened and desperate. Pr. Reich could also extract words/sentences from the younger voice such as “I’m begging you” or “stop”. One interesting comment from his analysis is that sounds of a fight (punches, slapping, struggle, …) are absent. He suggest that whatever happened before Jennifer’s 911 call, GZ was in control during the call until the gunshot.

    The 2nd expert, James Ryan, a former FBI forensic audio, video and image expert, seems not to have done a detailed analysis of the tape. However, he dismisses the possibility that any reliable information can be extracted from the tape due to its poor quality. James knows nothing about Alan’s work, so he doesn’t criticize it. What he says is more of a general statement.

    I believe, that having worked in the FBI, James probably knows better what this audio evidence is worth in a trial. Alan, has been used as an expert in 100s of trials. However, because it was his job of audio expert, Alan may be too optimistic concerning what he can really do.

    That said, I found it interesting that Pr. Alan Reich could confirm some statements made by two of the witnesses (including the Teacher).
    1) There were two voices one more dominant and older & one younger and scared.
    2) There was no fight in the seconds prior to the gunshot. The Teacher and the other witness said there was not much movement on the grass. Pr. Reich says there sound of a fight are absent.

    • I got to think that sense this information(thanx for the link BTW) Pr. Reich has got a hold of the original 911 call with the missing 8 seconds.(clearer and full, not a copy) and hopefully have more info.

      Good observation on the witnesses BTW.

63. In a reply to my comments above, CommonSense referred to the the page 122 of the FDLE document. This page is about the lab analysis of TM’s shirts. I was surprised to see that the conclusion:
    “The sweatshirts each display a hole located in the UPPER left chest. The area around these holes were microscopically examined and chemically processed for presence of gunshot residues. Both holes display residues consistent with CONTACT shot”.

    I put in uppercase the words that caught my attention:
    1) The hole in the sweaters is at the upper left chest
    2) This was a contact shot.

    Both statement seem at odd with the report of autopsy (pg 126) that states that the bullet wound is 1/2 inch below nipple and is consistent with an intermediate range.

    Therefore, the chest wound is consistent with an intermediate range shot while the shirt holes are consistent with contact shot. I’m not sure what to think about that.

    In any case, it is clear that TM had his hoodie on him when the shot was fired. I wonder how flashlight man could see the shot residues on it if TM was belly down. It suggests flashlight man was still around the crime scene when police arrived. This is why the Teacher would see him leave. I’ll have to review again police reports but as far as I remember, T. Smith never mention the presence of a 2nd man on the scene.

    • Finally glanced at the police report.

      One thing that caught my attention but I have no idea the meaning: Not a lot of blood loss. On a chest shot?

      The attending officer didn’t seal Trayvon’s chest with Vaseline (provided by an Asian male as I recall) until well after the shot.

      Note: I know absolutely nothing about ammo, ballistics, etc.

      • My guess is, since the bullet was a hollow point round, it broke apart before it hit a major blood source. When it did hit the left ventricle and the lower lung lobe, it was near a chest cavity so that the bleeding proceeded internally.
        Without the heart pumping the blood pressure drops really quick, so not much blood would be released before the pressure reached zero and bleeding stopped.

        • Cool — I figured the blood from a pumping/dying heart would find the neighboring gunshot wound rather easily and there’d be more blood at the scene. The evidence dump doesn’t suggest this.

          • With a hollow point round gunshot wound, There will be a small amount of blow back blood from the entrance point, and it’s considered high velocity splatter. Hollow points are designed NOT to exit the body on the other side, and usually won’t unless there is some kind of unusual jacketing or a high propellant charge.

    • Also, is there anything to the 2 gunshots being heard by several (I think) witnesses? I’m sure the echoes are horrendous in that corridor but could an accidental (or warning) shot have been fired?

      The female caller and Jeremy (in the background) both say “gunshots” during their 911 call with cries for help in the background. I assume that was by habit though — Hollywood never uses a gunshot scene (unless depicting a suicide of course).

      My bad if the sound of two shots has already been addressed.

    • I think the clothing displayed contact shots because Zimmerman was holding on to them. This was what he was doing with one uninjured hand, while the other uninjured hand was holding the gun. This would bring the clothing much closer to the gun than Treyvon’s body which would have been cringing away as far as possible.
      If the shots went through higher on the clothing than the body shots, this is consistant with Treyvon bending over, trying to pull his body away by digging in his heels and “leading with his butt.” (sorry for the graphic word, but I want to make myself clear).
      If this is what happened, using the clothing contact shot to “prove” that they were still wrestling or fighting would be a travesty. The shot that killed Treyvon was from an intermediate distance, regardless of how close George was pulling the hoodie and t-shirt to himself.

      • Marilyn,

        I made same observation few days ago that I posted on blog page related to the maps, about GZ holding Trayvon by the hoodie with one hand and gun in the other. If that’s the case, that could explain the “MMA” style punching and screams for help. It defies all common sense, that the person with gun would be yelling/screaming in anguish for someone to help them.

        • Unless the shooter was getting pummeled. And, that doesn’t seem to be the case with Zimmerman’s mild – at best – injuries. He definitely wasn’t in imminent danger of losing his life.

      • That makes so much sense, it’s scary. There’s the depraved mind proof right there.

    • Chilling very chilling. When thi first started being talked about amongst me and my friends of all races( I think race is important because it shows tha not everyone jumps on a racial bandwagon but will come together for the truth as shown in the rallys of several different ethnicities) we would search and rad and watch, well I ran across a very chilling comment that said I belive young Martin was trapped by another person. Right then it made the hairs on my arm stand up. I pray that this didnt happen because I dont think his parents could handle that. This is why the prosecution wanted to know of Zimmermans phone calls. What if he called Taaffe and Taaffe is defending him to the end so that he will protect him. There is definately something a mist but please dont let it be that. I am a parent and this whole ordeal would kill me but to think he was trapped by 2 men would really drive me over the edge.

      • i hear you riisey, it has had an emotional effect on me too and many others here.

    • I read in a forensic article that a GSW will appear intermediate if the victim is wearing clothes. So it is possible that the gun was in contact with the clothes, but because of filtering, it will appear as an intermediate wound on the flesh. Also, some have suggested that “contact” in medical terms may not mean flush up against but just a very close distance.

    • Speaking of officer Smith, I saw a vid where Frank Taaffe mentions that George Zimmerman did not know the responding officer first on the scene of Trayvon Martin’s death. The police report clearly shows that officer Smith was there and was the one who recognized Zimmerman as part of the Neighborhood Watch for the community. Smith was also the officer that responded to the February 2, 2012 call by Zimmerman to report a black male outside a white male homeowner’s home who lived at 1460 Retreat View Circle — Taaffe’s home.

      Why would Taaffe lie about this minor detail? Maybe it’s not a minor detail?

      • Insurance fraud?

64. I find it interesting that the autopsy report doesn’t say whether the scratch on TM’s knuckle is from before death or after. It’s rather strange that a M.E. will just say that a wound is present, but not indicate before or after death if they can, or state they can’t determine it, if they can’t.

    If TM obtained the wound on his hand before death, I’d expect it was encrusted with blood, or, if it didn’t go deeply enough to draw blood, that should have been observed and reported too. Since in a homicide case, you’re going to be looking for evidence of a fight/defense/offense. None of which can happen, after death. So there’s that.

    GZ supporters have now lost their “bloody fists”, and they’ve lost their assault on GZ. GZ did not slobber and bleed on TM’s hands, when TM supposedly tried to smother him with hands over his mouth and bleeding nose.

    TM, handling GZ’s bleeding, wet and slippery head, should again leave trace on his hands, if only dna as dead skin sloughs off onto them. Instead there’s only TM’s blood and no GZ dna on TM’s hands. Meaning that TM never even got to touch GZ, which fits with the true story emerging from behind the curtain of GZ’s lies. GZ was the aggressor all the way.

    The entrance wound shows the gun is level when fired. The wound is high on TM’s chest to the left of center. The fifth intercostal space is below and a bit to the left of the entrance wound (as near as I can make out from the autopsy image).

    So there appears to be a somewhat left and downward movement of the projectile. To my untrained, layman’s view, it appears that TM was probably bending forward and turned a bit, as if being held by his right arm or sleeve and trying to pull away, when the shot hits him. We’ll have to wait for the professional opinions, but so far it doesn’t look at all good for GZ’s account of the matter.

    • Let me see if I can sum this up…

      After the brief verbal encounter, with GZ being the dominant/aggresive voice, TM turns to walk away. GZ grabs hold of TM (DeeDee states she hears sound of someone pushing/shoving him and then grass sounds). TM tries to break free, but they both fall to the ground and TM lands on top of GZ (he hits/scrapes head on something). GZ, determined not to let anymore of these “a$$ holes” get away, continues his grip on TMs hoodie. GZ draws gun, TM freaks out and starts throwing punches, screaming/yelling for help and possibly pleading for his life. Then the gun shot!

    • I’ve always wondered how you could slam someone’s head on the pavement and that person have no hair. Could you really have a good enough grip on the side of the head that wouldn’t be counterbalanced by the person’s head you are slamming? How does that work? Most people will resist the backward motion but with no leverage to get a good grip, how does it happen?

      • A good enough grip in the rain to boot. Excellent observation.

        • I have been wondering about the rain. GZ ran around that corner trying to catch TM, I wonder if he might have slipped and cracked the back of his head on the sidewalk.

          That would explain the back of the head injuries, and it would have pissed him off, which could easily (given GZ’s history of violent encounters) have made it more likely for Zimmerman to be really rough with TM.

          The nose looks no worse than injuries I got being catching an elbow playing basketball, or a normal outcome from a minor bout of fisticuffs.

          • Slipped on the sidewalk or grass just off the sidewalk and cracked his head on concrete — interesting take.

            The nose looks puffy at best with a few scratches that definitely did NOT come from Trayvon (per the DNA evidence).

65. Contact shot to UPPER part of shirt.

    Intermediate shot to LOWER part of chest.

    Easy.

    If you grab someone by the shirt, and they are pulling away, the shirt is CLOSE to you. The bullet, however, strikes their body where their body is, ie FURTHER away.

    I bet if they’d dressed the body again they’d have found the 2 sets of holes don’t line up. Not too late to do it on a dummy, in court……….

    Re BLOOD LOSS – you get a lot of blood loss only if the heart it still pumping. For example, a cut femoral artery (in the thigh) will SPURT out blood, leading to bleeding out in 2 or 3 minutes. I once saw a body at a crash with the leg torn off above the knee, and barely a tiny puddle under it (killed instantly by head injury… also barely bleeding). Dead = no pumping = only a small seepage of blood.

    • Thank you. I thought there was still a flicker of life left when first responders showed up.

      Looks like Zimmerman’s “You got me” or “It’s over” narrative is flawed.

      • By now it’s a given that the GZ narrative is flawed.

        Perhaps there was a flicker of life. Hard to say. Nobody even looked at Trayvon for the first 3 minutes. In layman’s assessment he was dead. The ambulance guys had to do the CPR thing for X amount of time before making it official. Even if they can see it’s not going to work, because it’s their job to try.

      • Okay, now I’ve got the image of the autopsy diagram, and a medical image depicting the location of the 5th intercostal space, which, as I understand is just below the left nipple.
        LINK TO IMAGES

        Soot travels only 8 to 10 inches from the muzzle. There’s no soot so they know the shot is from further away. They won’t know the more precise distance until they do comparison tests with the same weapon and ammo.

        But the burn “powder stippling” on the skin is even around the entrance wound, if not a straight on shot they say, it would be oval. So they say the shot was straight on.

        I guess the bullet deflects off the bone and moves to the 5th intercostal space to the left of the entrance wound and breaks up sending out three shards, two go into the lower lung lobe and the other chews up the left ventricle.

        In any event GZ can’t reach TM’s chest, above the nipples, while laying pinned on his back with TM on top of him. His arms will easily reach that high, but his wrist won’t let him turn the gun so that it’s level with TM’s chest. Most especially not if they’re also struggling for control of the weapon.

        But, here’s the kicker, there’s no GZ trace on TM, meaning that TM never touched GZ. So GZ’s story of being beaten to a bloody pulp is untrue!
        He did not get those wounds from any fight with TM, so he had to get them from somewhere else and/or at some other time, just like I speculated before. I speculated then, that the wounds were made somehow at some other time because I just didn’t believe that TM would have hit GZ at all.

        For a kid to attack an adult, he’d have to have a pretty nasty, tough and wild disposition that would easily be spotted in his interactions with other kids. They’d be frightened of him. TM had lots of friends who say that he was fun to be around. He says “please and thank you” in public places, that’s something no kid with nasty disposition would do at all. It’s the mark of a well trained and very respectful/gentle child.

        So, now I’m going to stand by my speculation that someone or some group put GZ up to this. It looks more like some kind of initiation than an accidental encounter gone horribly wrong.

        It seems to me, this is just my impression, during the time spent out there, GZ probably had a few chances to get in a good shot, instead he hesitated.
        A “witness” shows up and goes away, and that’s when GZ seems to make up his mind and takes the shot. So, what did that appearance mean to him? Was he being signaled that time was running out on him? Was it encouragement and a “hurry up”?

        I’ll bet that my speculation that the wounds were not examined because a medical professional would probably have put them down to more than just a few minutes earlier. Believe me, if that was even possibly the case, it would never do! GZ would also have to watch his mouth, he couldn’t identify himself, not with blood streaming out of his nose! He had to keep the appearance of escalating hostilities alive at all times, or his reason for shooting falls away.

    • Actually TM lost about 40% of his blood. The autopsy report states, in page 126, that there are 1.3L + 1L in the right & left pleural cavities respectively. Basically, the blood filled his chest.

      The projectile perforated the right ventricle of the heart. From what I’ve read, this causes something similar to a heart attack though the heart may beat erratically for a few seconds.

      The projectile perforated the lungs too. This reduces dramatically the ventilation. It is recommended to act very quickly to plug such hole. Without this, CPR would lack efficiency.

      Chances of survival from such trauma are extremely small. There are a few instances of survival reported. It is said that to get that chance you better have the human and equipment help within seconds.

      Oxygenation of the brain stops immediately. The brain as ~4min of oxygen stocked. The brain shuts down immediately meaning the individual passes out immediately.

      From what I’ve found concerning a gunshot to the heart, it is very unlikely for TM to have said and done what GZ claims he did right after the shot. He likely collapsed unconscious immediately, victim of a massive heart attack. The bleeding and the asphixiation made him die within minutes.

66. Orlando Sentinal has a down to the second police report out this morning of all of the timestamp information during the shooting. I can’t get it to open.

    • The SPD are using the 19:11:12 time as the start of the GZ call.

      IF that’s correct, it sure closes up the time line. The confrontation would begin very shortly after GZ hangs up.

      A confrontation just after TM turns south at the T makes sense.

      I’m a little confused why TM would be so out of breath after running from GZ’s car to the T. Maybe he was already winded from running back from the store. ???

      • There’s still a 1-2ish minute gap that Zimmerman should have spent heading back to his vehicle, correct? Walking down to Trayvon’s porch would take about a minute and running would obviously take less time.

      • He took a fairly long time, more than 40 minutes, to get back from the store. So wasn’t running then.

        What does out of breath sound like? sharp shallow breathing. Same as in a panic attack. Or just ordinary fear. “His voice changed” DD said. Adrenalin starting to build up.

        The SPD timeline is wrong. This was cleared up ages ago (and their report can’t be changed). Call connected at 7.09, not logged until 7.11.

      • I don’t think it changes much at all. Trayvon was still back behind the home where he was staying now and “near his father’s house” and simply chilling on the phone because he had “lost the guy”. George Zimmerman had time to walk all the way there to confront him and chase him back down the path towards the T (and still pretend he was walking back to his SUV).

        I think the prosecution will simply need to prove George Zimmerman had no reason to be on the back path unless he admits he was pursuing Trayvon Martin as a criminal “up to no good” (which Trayvon Martin wasn’t) and preventing him from being another criminal that will “always get away” without him stepping in vigilante-style. He had a flashlight and could have given the police his location or a neighbor’s address from his parked vehicle without EVER having to enter the back pathway.

        Case closed as far as reasonable doubt. No reasonable person would find it necessary to enter pathway behind homes (where home addresses are NOT posted) to get an address. George Zimmerman’s story is shown to be a complete fabrication.

        • And, Zimmerman will never admit he continued south down the path in stalking/harassing pursuit of Trayvon because that blows his entire self defense/stand your ground case.

    • That timeline is incorrect, and the Sentinal article is irresponsible. See:

      Orlando Sentinel bases story on faulty info in police report, refuses to make correction.

67. Think about it, If GZ did not fight with TM, where did the wounds come from?
    Better yet, if he had not shot TM, then look at what the result would be. He’d be standing there armed and covered with blood, with no good explanation as to why. TM meanwhile would be talking just like you’d expect a very frightened child to talk, giving away that he was no match for GZ and never even considered himself to be. Or, perhaps the police would have just sent everyone home, eh?

    I think we’re going to get an eyeful when those text messages come out.
    The defense has gone extremely quiet again. I don’t see any more blustering statements about how dangerous TM was supposed to be. Very telling!

    • I’d be more interested in seeing what Zimmerman texted and emailed 1+ week after the murder when he thinks he’s in the clear. Anything sent immediately or shortly after the shooting was sent to cover his ass.

      • I’ve been visiting lots of boards and I must say that GZ supporters exhibit a marked lack of analytical skills. Yet, even they have gone quite quiet, since this document dump has done nothing at all to help GZ’s cause. In fact, it’s hurt his case so badly, even a plea bargain should be incredibly difficult.
        Look for GZ to roll over on anyone he can in order to get a deal that keeps him from execution.

        Emails will only be “icing on the cake” or “more nails in the coffin” which ever you prefer.

        The wounds on TM’s body are out of line with the holes in TM’s clothes, can only mean that TM’s clothing was being pulled on, at the time the shot was taken. There is no way “on gods green earth” you can be pulling on the clothing of an unarmed person, while holding a firearm on them, and claim self defense.

      • I’m not sure if legal discovery can access those post-incident phone records or no. But dayum, I’d like to see them to. I would bet my left pinkie finger that if you’d had phone taps on the Zimmerman family, there would be mongo evidence of conspiracy and coverups. I hope they DO get emails/texts, they’ll be very interesting.

        • I just think Zimmerman is knowing enough of the legal process to not say anything incriminating over text/email. Well, until he thinks he’s in the clear. Question is, did he ever think that?

          Another question: Did investigators have access to all of his inboxes and computers or just his cellphone?

68. Hello all!
    I was wondering if anyone had read that Zimmerman’s DNA was found everywhere on the gun except the trigger. I believe that Trayvon’s DNA was not found on the gun. Was someone else there? How could GZ DNA not have been found on the trigger?

    • Thank you for the comment and welcome!

    • Wiped? Wiped with the back of Trayvon Martin’s hoodie while on his back inexplicably? Wiped with Zimmerman’s own clothes before realizing he can’t escape the justice he’s managed to escape so many times in the past?

      • I put this together…

        Click to access blood-evidence.pdf

        • Holy crap – that is awesome! Do you mind if I post it to the Update section? Note: I’ll use your link, give full credit and I don’t make a dime from the site (in fact my annual $100ish fee is up soon).

          What I really need to do: Put together a BccList.com evidence dump. There’s some incredible stuff from commenters (both in the comment sections and emails) that would make for an EXCELLENT blog posting.

          • There’s a good idea… Why not get a free web page and post the collections of documents there? Obviously we don’t need to post comments to them, so it would just be a case based library that we could link to the pages of.

            • I’ve been running (so, paying for) the blog as a hobby for a few years now. I’m not complaining but like to mention that I make no money from the blog – and actually pay a little money – when posting other people’s stuff.

              I will try to do this soon. Maybe a few pots of coffee, some ritalin, and an all-nighter will get the job done (until the next morning when I try to perform my “real” job). Ha!

      • That’s an excellent idea. I’m in if you need help to bundle documents.

        • Great idea – I can add contributors to the blog!

          So, maybe we can split up the comments on both postings, scrape them for anything we find pertinent, and add those links, comments, observations, etc. to a draft posting. I can put the final touches – including adding media files – and publish.

          Thoughts? Anybody else want to chip in?

          • I’m in! Oh for others, it’s not your tech savvy that needed, just more eyes, hands and heads. I’m pretty disorganized myself, but I can spot errors and/or passages that seem like such and/or need more explanation. You can help, if only to point out how things can be moved around, re-ordered, to make a picture that makes more/better sense.

            Oh and NLME, you should put the contributions button up anyway. I don’t go after donations, but I’ve got one on my blog (it’s hidden way down so no one ever seems to find it LOL) But, who knows what it might enable you to do?
            You can get a paypal donations button that is easy to place, (it’s just copy and paste code) you don’t need any special knowledge and it works great, it even issues receipts if you want it to. You get a control page where you simply select the options of the behavior you want it to follow and that’s it.

          • It may be your hobby, but there’s no reason you should have to carry the load, remember we’re enjoying it too, so maybe it’s our hobby also!

        • @tchoupi caillou: re: George Zimmerman’s Route Deduced from Clubhouse’s Videos
          It would be nice if you could put some kind of time points on this map. even mock or approximate times would be a big help at this point.
          I’ve got your stuff in my collection at : http://zimmerman-vs-martin.blogspot.com/
          which I use for reference (which is why it’s so disorganized) but it’s open to anyone who wants to use it as well. I’ve got comments moderated, to ensure that I see them all, otherwise I could miss suggestions etc., directed to me.
          Also Blogger has added a new permissions interface I didn’t have before. So, maybe now if someone signs on, I can give them permission to move things around and post etc., which I tried to do before but couldn’t.
          My other computer locked up, so I don’t have access to a lot of the old stuff yet.
          I’m still working from scratch. Bcclist seems to have gone quite, but there’s some 160 posts a day on Frederick Leatherman’s law blog. You’re getting great mentions over there. Warm regards.

      • i would love to help but i have absolutely no idea how to do any of the things you just said haha i am not tech savvy at all. I’m not sure how much all of this costs (monetarily, i know the cost in time must be great) but have you thought of setting up a place for small donations to help keep this site or the new one you are proposing up and running while this case continues as i’d be more than happy to help contribute. I’m sure others would too as this site is my favourite by far to discuss the facts of this case and i really appreciate all the work you do here. I’ve seen other sites request donations although im not sure how it all works or if it’s worth the trouble, depending on the costs. Anyway, the new idea sounds great and i really look forward to it’s progress..

        • Thanks for the kind words. And, no worries — sifting through everything may end up not being that “daunting” of a process. My eyes hurt thinking about it though. Hahaha!

          I’m (lower) middle class enough that I’d feel “dirty” soliciting donations for a hobby unless I, in turn, donated that money. The WordPress app is a major timesaver and I’m a consultant with an extremely flexible schedule. So, other than a sleepless day here and there when a project is due but something “major” breaks in the case, I haven’t had to make many accommodations.

      • NMLE,

        I can supply material such as the 911 call records, police reports.
        I also have tons of links more or less organized by topics.
        I have screen grabs and pictures.
        Finally, I can supply the result of my analysis work such as time lines and location of witnesses.

        I’m still not clear on how wan can organize this but I think it must be a list of references with links to sources, a list of pictures, a map and a time line. We should probably list the witnesses and what they states and what we know about them. I was about to forget a list of evidences from official reports.

        From there, all discussions in the blog can be referring to those items.

        • Cool – if you’d be willing to put together a comprehensive email of all the excellent info you have, that would be awesome!

          I definitely – no sarcasm – made this too difficult by mentioning site contributors. Ha!

          Maybe Lonnie, jo, and I can scrape the comment sections for additional stuff that we all reference on a regular basis.

          We can do a single “evidence” blog posting and list out said evidence. For example…

          911 caller 4: Audio and call transcribed.

          911 caller 6: Address.

          Frank Taaffe: Walk through.

          I will set-up a hyper link directing to an “external” website (like YouTube), “internal” .pdf/image file (like a map), etc. for the above example words of audio, call transcribed, address, and walk through.

          Thoughts?

          So…

          There are currently 379 comments on the original blog posting — the comment number can be seen to the left of the comment (as you likely know). Note: The replies to these comments are not part of this 379 number.

          Lonnie – maybe you take take the first 175 comments from the original posting, scrape them, and email me the stuff referenced frequently?

          Jo – maybe you can take comments 176-349?

          thelist@bcclist.com

          I’ll review the new posting’s comments.

          • I can set up another google blog, I haven’t checked to see how to set permissions, I will do so right away. Then we can work there and link back here. The good thing about the google blogger is, we can delete comments if we like. So we can take requests/suggestions/critiques and after we’ve made the adjustment, we can then simply delete the comments. Keeping the blog pristine. We can also play with the posting dates, as a way of keeping the docs in the order we choose. We can change dates to move the post back or forward in the chain.

            In fact we can set up as many blogs as we like over there, so we can even use one as workspace and not publish it. Then just copy and paste it all into the public blog. Whaddayathink?

            • I’m down for whatever but the easiest/least confusing route may be for each of us to create an email and then post the accumulated evidence dump from those emails (I can/will do this) into a brand new BccList posting.

              Adds: I’d definitely turn off comments for the evidence page in the benefit of brevity and page load times…great idea!

              If the above sounds good…

              Tchoupi – Feel free to email your info once it’s compiled.

              Lonnie – Would you be able to review comments #1 – #175 of the original posting for useful, interesting, frequently mentioned stuff, etc?

              jo – Would you be able to review comments #176 – #349 for the same?

              I’ll review the new posting’s comments tonight and/or tomorrow night.

              P.S. I think my disclaimer about not making a dime from the site (before asking to post content somebody else created) may have been confusing. Meaning, there’s no per posting, file, or storage fees. Just some annual fees that I gladly pay. 🙂

            • Will do, but it’ll have to wait till tomorrow, I’ll scrape 1 to 175 for links to data.
              I’ve had a rather long day and I’m beat, I’m struggling to finish up my mailbox now before I completely collapse.

            • Cool – and, no rush at all!

      • NLME i only just now saw this posting, sorry sometimes i just scroll down close to the bottom to check new posts and don’t go through all of them to see if anything has been added so i completely missed this, my apologies, but i’m more than happy to help. So i go through the comments mentioned and look for important links, important and frequently noted comments/ideas and forward them to you via email? Have i got that right? I will email you my email address so you can send me an example of what you are looking for and to make corresponding a bit easier because i sometimes miss new posts here. Thanks.

        • Excellent! Yes, what you mentioned is exactly right.

          For example, you’d review comments #176-349+ of the original posting for important links and send me an email like…

          Witness 7 changes their story: www. OrlandoNewsYadaYada. com/blablabla

          I’ll the post the phrase “Witness 7 – Change in Story” with the hyperlink you send.

          If you could put all (or most of the links) in a single email, that would be great since I struggle with monitoring the bcclist.com inbox — a lot of spam and email notifications are sent there.

    • I was indeed looking at the FDLE report focusing on the conclusions concerning DNA search (pp 104-114).

      Here is my summary:
      1) GUN GRIP
      GZ’s DNA is confirmed as major
      TM’s DNA is excluded
      The DNA of at least 1 more individual was found as minor
      2) GUN TRIGGER
      No reachable conclusion
      3) GUN SLIDE
      DNA of a male person found
      No conclusion regarding the owner of the DNA
      4) GUN HOLSTER
      GZ’s DNA is confirmed as major
      DNA of at least two other individuals found as minor
      TM’s contribution to minor can’t be determined.
      5) TM’s fingernails
      No DNA foreign to TM was found on right hand
      No DNA obtained on left hand
      6) TM’s shirt (ME-8)
      GZ’s DNA found (stain A)
      TM’s DNA found (stain B & E)
      Undetermined Mixed DNA (stain D) possibly GZ & TM
      No DNA foreign to TM on right cuff/lower sleeve
      Mixture DNA from 2 individuals on left cuff/lower sleeve
      Can’t determine if GZ’s is one of the 2.
      7) TM’s hoodie (ME-12)
      TM’s DNA found (stain A)
      No DNA on stain C
      No DNA foreign to TM on right & left cuff/lower sleeve
      8) GZ’s shirt (DMS-16)
      Only GZ’s DNA was found on 14 stains
      9) GZ’s jacket (DMS-19)
      GZ’s DNA found in 9 stains
      Mixed DNA profile of 2 individuals in stains E & BB
      GZ is major
      No determination concerning TM
      Mixed DNA profile from 2 individuals in stain I
      GZ is major
      TM is excluded
      Mixed DNA profile from 2 individuals in stain N
      GZ is major
      TM is minor
      Mixed DNA profile from 2 individuals in stain U
      GZ is undetermined
      TM is possible
      Male individual and/or non-Human DNA in stain Z

      My conclusions
      1) DNA isn’t the magical evidence.
      2) There is no evidence TM ever touched the gun.
      3) There is evidence GZ had the gun in hand.
      4) There is no trace of GZ’s DNA found in TM’s fingernail
      5) GZ’s DNA found on TM’s shirt but not on cuffs or lower sleeves.
      6) No trace of GZ’s DNA on TM’s hoodie.
      7) TM’s DNA found on GZ’s jacket

      I have no information concerning the location of the various stains.

      When reading, keep in mind that the absence of evidence isn’t the evidence of the absence. So, only keep positive results like GZ’s DNA found on TM’s shirt which was under the hoodie.

      • I don’t know a whole lot about forensics, DNA and all that, I leave that to people like you and others on this blog that seem to have a good grasp on how it works. I just try to understand it so if I’m wrong tell me. I’m more of a actions kind of guy. It’s fun to try to put the puzzle together : )

        The DNA on TM’s inner shirt under his hoodie. It seems to me that depending on where they found the DNA , low or high on the shirt may strengthen the theory that GZ frisked TM after the shot. With that said It seems to me if they found the DNA high and on the front that would strenghen the theory many on this blog have that TM was on his back after the shot and before anybody got out there to see, GZ flipped TM over face down. In other words Frisked the front then flipped and then frisked the back and then got cought and then quickly stood up.

    • a witness (I think John) said gz said the gun is on the ground, the gun is on the ground … the police, however, retrieved the holstered gun from gz’s person according to the document dump. so maybe there was some handling of the gun b4 the police arrived, hence a wiped trigger. gz’s story wasn’t completely formulated.

      Two people chasing tray is plausible. who would remain inside the crime scene and have to be asked to leave whilst LEO log guy is logging? maybe shot (s) were fired. Since all bullets for the tech 9 were accounted for … it possible the Flashlight could have been standing there watching throughout and it could have been taaffe. too much happened in that minute or so and gz peeps were there to snap a picture.

      it’s possible taaffe called gz and said it’s on man. maybe both taaffe and john are on the NW tree. the witness that saw a Hispanic man on the bottom and the MMA stuff knew exactly that it was gz. taaffe knew how far down that path gz went (see walkthrough). and more that likely, this is the person that remained inside the crime scene tape and is probably the picture taker. yes he is a friend of gz and could of chased tm back toward gz near the T.

      I hate composing when I’m tired.

69. Of course, of course. You can host here as well if it is easier. Just trying to get information out that national media is ignoring.

    • I’ve added it to the update section — thanks again!

70. Thanks!
    But I thought that DNA could still be present even if it were wiped off?

    • The following is a rather baseless comment but I think you can completely wipe off DNA. However, I can’t imagine Zimmerman purposely wiping the trigger off since he admitted to shooting the unarmed teen (but you never know).

      Unless, Zimmerman wiped the entire gun while he was weighing his options, realized he had none but to say he shot Trayvon, and never touched the trigger again because there was no need to. That sort of makes sense.

      • And accidentally also wiping off any traces of TM on the barrel?

        Maybe deliberately wiping traces of TM.

    • Yes and No. Yes. He probably thought he could wipe on Trayvon Martin’s DNA while he rubbed the gun on Trayvon Martin’s clothing. No, he didn’t probably give a care to whether wiping his own DNA off since he’s got documented proof to explain his own DNA as Zimmerman has a concealed carry permit. The goal would be to ADD Trayvon Martin’s DNA without worries regarding Zimmerman’s own DNA being absent or present.

71. HI guys! I’m really enjoying reading this blog because you all are actually taking the time to examine the discovery evidence instead of childish name calling. Thought you guys might want some interesting info on Frank Taaffe. It seems that the good ole’ boy Taaffe was arrested for Criminal Trespass and PETTY THEFT. I got the info from a comment on Huffington Post.

    Here is the link: http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/default.aspx

    Just click on Criminal and Traffic Case Records, then where it says Party Information enter Taaffe – Francis – Bruce, then click search. You’ll see all of his charges. Sorry if you already have this info. Frank is a criminal felon!! lol

    • I haven’t really read any other blog postings regarding the shooting but what you’ve mentioned has been said before — thank you for the comment! I’m pleased to continue hearing there’s at least one “civil” blog where visitors can review information on the shooting. As the comments are completely unedited, this was unintentional (but definitely desired).

    • Alas, it’s seemed to me that there was more than just GZ involved for a very long time.

      Think about a man coming outside, when others are running away from the sounds that are scaring them. This guy tells a story that coincides with GZ’s story, then later recants it, when it seems like his further hanging onto the original story, will make him seem like an associate.

      He sees GZ on the bottom and can see that GZ is hispanic. Another witness sees him standing outside talking to the man on the ground, but doesn’t see one of the people. She only sees two people not the three that have to be there.

      John goes back in the house and heads upstairs when he hears the shot.
      Trayvon’s clothing and body shows that he had the inferior position when he was shot. Meanwhile John, is pretending that GZ is a total stranger?!? He’s calling him “the white Hispanic male”??? Then GZ is asking him to call his wife? Why didn’t he simply say: “I saw George Zimmerman, Captain of the neighborhood watch on the bottom”? Why is he addressing his friend as “The white Hispanic male”? Things that make you go hmmm.

72. In the report of investigation (pg 49), there is an interesting witness statement. This is the witness that I positioned at 2821 RVC, the one that cared for an elderly person 4 doors north of hers.
    Her 911 call doesn’t bring much information. However, her statement is really interesting as it cross checks John’s.
    She was about to walk her dog going through her back door when she noticed two persons: One is her neighbor Johnathan Good, and the other one is a person laying on the ground, whom she identifies as “the kid”.

    The added information here is that she’s heard John saying “Okay, I’m going to call 911” about 60sec before the gunshot which was at 7:16:56. The 60sec comes from a re-enactment.

    We know she was too far south to see much and she admits it. Actually, she couldn’t even see the third person that was on top. So, when she says she saw the kid on the ground, it must be her interpretation. However, that interpretation must have been influenced by what she heard. She could clearly hear John’s words which means that once the back doors were open we could hear very well sounds, voices and words 3 houses south from the scuffle. In other words, she has heard who she thought was on the ground saying “Oh Oh, help me, help me.” and she identified it has being the voice of a kid. I believe, this is one more nail to the coffin of GZ’s claim that he was the one crying for help.

    The other interesting point her statement makes is that Johnathan Good isn’t lying. He really was at his porch demanding that the fight stops.

    The final interesting information is about timing. From the re-enactment, we now know that John was crying at TM & GZ before Jennifer’s (Jeremy’s girlfriend) 911 call (the one that caught the cryings for help). It also extends the scuffle to more than a minute.

    • Link to re-enactment? (did I miss it?)

      • There is only a mention of the re-enactment in the report of investigation. Nothing more.

    • I raised a question about this witness statement a few post back, and wondered about her timing of the events. Could it also mean that maybe, as others have stated that there was no sounds of a struggle when shots fired? Was TM somehow incapacitated enough to not be able to get up before being shot?. Even the statement given by the 13yr old coincides with what you point out and the female witness…that he heard someone on the ground moaning, but his dog ran in opposite direction before he could see what was happening. I’m not sure how that would factor in with what others here have posted about position both were in at time of shooting.

      I certainly hope Angela Corey and her team are giving as much thought into all the possibilities as I’m reading here!

      • “I certainly hope Angela Corey and her team are giving as much thought into all the possibilities as I’m reading here!”

        We can only hope.

      • tchoupi.caillou,

        I was reading over your post again and where you say the witness states, “She was about to walk her dog going through her back door when she noticed two persons: One is her neighbor Johnathan Good, and the other one is a person laying on the ground, whom she identifies as “the kid”.

        A thought popped in my mind and I went back to look at the statement as written by Inv. Serino. and this is what it states, “She noticed her neighbor talking to someone, and she noticed someone ‘else’, who she ID as the ‘kid’, laying on the ground making a groaning noise”. Now if I’m interpreting this correctly, it seems to me that there would be three persons outside: neighbor, GZ(this is who she sees neighbor talking to), and then TM laying on ground?! She then states that she hears the neighbor say, “Ok, I’m going to call 911”. She recalls all this having transpired prior to her heading upstairs for closer view out bathroom window before hearing gun shot. After re-enactment with Inv. Serino, the elapsed time was 60 secs.

        Now, the thought that pooped in my head, is according to John, this would be about the same time he states he’s witnessing TM on top of GZ giving him “MMAs” to the face, yelling for help(before his retraction), and he tells the two men, “Stop, I’m calling 911!” at which time he states he locked patio door, runs upstairs and he also hears gun shot. Only similarities in the two stories I’m seeing, is the statement “I’m calling 911”, and they both hear gun shot when heading upstairs.

        When I look at statement given by female witness, and given what most of us believe to be John’s involvement, it sounds as if John is agreeing to make call to 911 with his story that TM is on top of GZ pounding away and guy on bottom is yelling out to him to “help”. He doesn’t say that he was outside and witnessed this directly, just that he could ‘hear’…only in written statement does he mention he opened door and saw GZ getting hit.

        What still is unclear to me is if there was indeed this period of ‘separation’ what happened that TM was unable to get up before being shot?

        • Could be that GZ is holding a gun on him? That would certainly prevent him from getting up, without providing the examiner with any injuries to examine.
          John, it seems, is getting close to being an accessory after the fact.
          Perhaps he already is. That would explain him changing his story.
          Perhaps his phone, text or emails sunk him already and the SP is now working on roundup activities.

          The FBI Lab boys have way more IT resources than the state boys, so I expect Taaffe to go down next. Stay tuned.

      • “Was TM somehow incapacitated…”? That is beyond speculation. The evidence indicates clearly that Martin was dominating the situation. This is to say that regardless of opinions about who started what, Martin was seen by multiple witnesses on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him. There is no evidence that prior to being shot, was Martin harmed in any way at all. Read it again. NO EVIDENCE that Martin was being harmed in any way at all… prior to his being shot.

        I know most people here want to believe in the now “trademarked name and slogan” with the picture of a 13 year old boy… that he was kind, gentle and innocent, that he could not possibly have taken Zimmerman to the ground and brutally beating the man — the witnesses and the evidence are surely wrong. But get a grip. Don’t buy into the trademarked hype which is being pushed by clearly opportunistic people trying to turn this into something it simply is not.

        The very idea that Martin was incapacitated prior to being shot speaks volumes of the fantasy living in your head.

        • “Beating the crap out of him”

          ?!?

          There was no DNA from Zimmerman found underneath Trayvon’s nails. Which leads me to ask – was there even Zimmerman’s DNA found on Trayvon’s hands?!?

          Also, Zimmerman’s injuries were: likely a broken nose and abrasions/cuts that required soap/water and no medical attention.

          Note: There are also witness accounts that say Zimmerman and/or an unrecognizable person (could be either of them) were on top during the scuffle.

      • Tina, further down the report, it is written that the witness states that she saw nobody beside her neighbor and the person on the ground.

      • Daniel,

        It seems that you’ve already made up your mind about the evidence presented. Actually, there aren’t ‘multiple’ witness as you say, that saw Trayvon on top beating the crap out of GZ. Just one, John. Everyone else heard either, the verbal encounter, scuffle, or just the shot, and said it was too dark out to see who was who. NONE of those witness said they saw GZ getting a butt whooping, except for John! Several of them even state, they saw ONE person laying on the ground moaning/whining for help right before the shot is heard.
        So, if it is GZ, as you and others suggest, where’s Trayvon? If he was ‘clearly’ the agressor and dominating the situation as you state the evidence shows…and he incapacitated GZ. He what, waited around for GZ to recover from near unconsciousness and allowed GZ to shoot him?!

        For me, it’s not about being on any side/team. Just want the TRUTH to be known. So, perhaps you may want to get a ‘grip’ on reality and realize that GZ is not being TRUTHFUL!

        Thanks for stopping by and replying to my post.

      • Daniel,

        TM was probably not an angel.
        GZ was surely not one either. He had has problems of violence as soon as he left parental home. He is even not 30 that he has been fired from a job for violent handling of a female customer. He’s been charged for violence to a police officer. He violently dealt with his former girlfriend and finally he kills a boy.
        Actually, it would be interesting to get statistics on that topic, but before, I want to answer to some of your points.
        1) SYG law applies to TM too. He may have just used his right without gun in his pocket. So, to know who was really the aggressor you have to look to what happened prior to the scuffle. The scuffle in itself is meaningless. We all know there was one, we just don’t know who started it.
        2) There is at least one witness who seriously contradicts GZ’s statement. That witness is DeeDee. This is enough to justify a trial.
        3) I’m not claiming GZ’s intention was to beat TM up (even less to kill him). I believe that was a terrible accident caused by a man playing police. So, no GZ didn’t ran after TM to beat him up. He ran after him to get him arrested.
        4) TM did not beat the crap out of GZ! You can’t discard the evidence that GZ required no stiches and could be released immediately to SPD (that’s in the report). It is true he was blooded though. But, if his head was banged repetitively on the concrete for a minute he would have needed stiches at minimum. Bleeding nose? Sure, any shock to the nose would make it and it’s always impressive. So, sure TM threw some punches, but he was definitely not efficient at that. And after all, if he was standing his ground, it was then his right to punch GZ.
        5) No wound/bruise to TM? This is actually an issue to GZ. You’ll find no one in the world getting punch for a minute without defending himself one way or another. Typically, the aggressor would get his share of wounds. We also made the comment that a defensive GZ would protect his face with his harms/hands. That too should leave marks. None were found on the hands/harms.
        6) Finally, if you are the victim. You don’t have to lie. You really really don’t. You don’t have to take an oath and say before the exact person that will judge your case that you thought he was a bit younger than you when you’re on police records saying “late teen” or “I don’t know where this kid is”. You don’t have to state that your aggressor had time to say western-type things before loosing consciousness from a gunshot to the heart because humans just can’t. Don’t claim you are merely looking for an address and walking back to your car after you rushed out of your car to chase someone without forgetting your gun and flashlights.

        Side note concerning people trying to turn this into something it clearly isn’t. I can’t deny that the Martin’s Lawyer used pictures of a younger Trayvon to pressure the judicial system to do its job. However, pro-GZ media did not hesitate using pictures of thug-type black teenagers to make him look like he was one. BTW, the autopsy report clearly states that Trayvon’s teeth were natural and in good health.

      • tchoupi.caillou Says
        “Tina, further down the report, it is written that the witness states that she saw nobody beside her neighbor and the person on the ground.”

        Thanks for pointing that out. I wonder, though, if someone would pick up on that and question the discrepency. In any event, it still doesn’t explain why she and the young boy walking dog both state they saw just one person laying on the ground.

      • Tina, it was really dark that night on that back path. The former teacher couldn’t see any face from her house right across the path. John, who had it right at his porch is the only one identifying a black man on to of someone with a red jacket. One house down, the lady saw a guy with a white t-shirt. At this point, no other witness ever saw a white t-shirt. In front of her, Selena saw only shadows. One house down, Selma & Mary couldn’t see if the guy with a flash light was police or not. they just assumed he was and it happened he wasn’t. One more house down, the lady saw indeed only the shadows of two individuals one on the grass and one at his porch. So, I guess Austin McLendon, the 13yo boy, wouldn’t see much. If TM was with his dark hoodie on, they may have simply not see him.

        You can check the pictures of that night, it really was dark down there. In one of the pictures, you can see police officers grouped at the T because they were right in the beam of the police car’s headlights. A few feets to the right, if you pay attention, there is an officer tying the yellow tape to a tree to secure the crime scene. You really have to watch closely to catch that officer, because what you really see is the shadow of the officer.

    • Was TM kneed in the balls to incapacitate him? How would kneeing in the balls show up on an autopsy.

      I’m still not sure of John’s accuracy or credibility with respect to his account of what happened.

      • The autopsy mentioned Trayvon’s genitals. There were two sentences. One said something like there were no abnormalities seen. The other line didn’t say there were no abnormalities but I can’t remember what term/phrase was used. I’d search but you guessed it, I’m on a mobile device.

73. I really hope that there was not a third person invovled. The more I’m reviewing evidence the more it’s starting to look that way. So tragic 😦

74. From other post –

    P.S. Completely unrelated but I find it super awkward that with all the police/EMT presence literally feet from their home, Trayvon Martin’s family didn’t file a missing police report until the next day. No, I’m obviously not suggesting anything…at all…I just find it weird.

    I don’t find this odd. They may have entered from the back entrance and went into the front of the house completely missing all the police activity. Second, it would be unnatural for a parent to assume that their child in any way had something to do with what is going on. Literally, I think it would be the last thing they would think.

    • Yeah – this line was written on 3/27. So, the day of my original posting. So, well before I sort of understood what the heck happened that night.

      I originally thought Tracy and Brandy were home while there was a ton of police presence, Trayvon didn’t show up later that night, and they didn’t think anything out of the ordinary had occurred. This obviously wasn’t the case.

      I’ll strikethrough the text in the original posting…thanks!

      • I would like to know how long the police were actually even on the scene collecting evidence. The police already admit to not making an exhaustive search for information about the teen, which is odd, evidently they wanted to assume he couldnt possibly live in the neighborhod. He was only 70 feet away from his back yard and had they canvased longer the father would have actually came home and discovered this gruesome scene. It is just so weird that Sanford police dept was so easy to believe Zimmerman. I really find it hard to trust the Sanford police and their evidence.

        • The middle eastern coworker that was harassed by Zimmerman stated during his interview with investigators that George was very convincing.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/05/18/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-evidence_n_1528268.html

          At one point, the man says he started to wonder if he somehow misread Zimmerman’s verbal attacks because that’s how convincing and innocent sounding George was when talking to their supervisors about the harassment.

          But, this is different. The Sanford Police Department – so, individuals that should be highly skilled/trained with situations like this – should be embarrassed they were (originally) duped by a convincing man whose story didn’t even add up on the night of the shooting.

          • I just listened to the interview with the “middle eastern co-worker.” I’ve got the following observations:

            1. The interviewee had more problems “fitting in” than just Zimmerman. In fact, before his first interactions with Zimmerman he established that he was not completely comfortable.
            2. The interviewee was reluctant to characterize Zimmerman as racist, but more like “junior highschool” stuff where singling people people out was occurring.
            3. How did this ex-coworker get approached? I suspect it is more along the lines of this man coming forward after recognizing him in the news to assist in his lynching. I question his motivations, but I don’t doubt the truth of what he has said because the interviewer was asking some rather leading questions and he seemed to maintain his course.
            4. It was a very interesting interview and helped to paint a believable character impression of Zimmerman. The more I learn about him, the less I like him, but the more I understand him. I know the personality well. Always looking for a chance to assert himself, establish himself as a leader or a superior, invariably at the expense of others. What’s more is the character traits collected from other sources and from his dealings seem to fit together pretty nicely.

            He’s not a racist. He’s not uncomfortable with identifying people by race and he seems to feel he has license to do so because he’s “not white.” I see that in a lot of people… people often believing that only white people can be racist. He’s not really even a full on “bully” either. A bully goes out of his way to make people miserable and it is often planned out. Zimmerman doesn’t strike me that way. He performs best with an audience and in situations. It’s not fitting… he’s more of a performer trying to make himself look good at the expense of others, not someone who is specifically out to get anyone.

            I am not denying he clearly has personality issues. He certainly does. I met many like him in schools and in workplaces and especially during my short time with the TSA. (The cop-wannabe types are the worst.)

            What works for me at the moment, (and my impressions of things have evolved as information comes it as I hope everyone’s is) is that this guy was kind of self-important and wanted to prove how important he was by being an aggressive neighborhood watchman; asserting himself against anyone he might be able to characterize as suspicious. (Calling an unknown black person wearing clothes consistent with gangs or people trying to conceal their identity does NOT make a person racist. It just makes him observant to the fact that Martin was practically wearing a mask. We saw the 7-11 video. Could you see his face AT ALL?!) He went to confront Martin and he did. That’s not “murderous intent” it’s just bad personality.

            The problem is that Martin most assuredly went off on him and wasn’t about to put up with Zimmerman’s bullsh!t. Frankly, I don’t completely blame Martin for being upset with Zimmerman’s approach or manner. I would be too. But a line was crossed… okay two lines were crossed.

            The first line that was crossed was Zimmerman. He was acting like a wannabe-cop. And I can’t say what Zimmerman was expecting, but I am pretty sure he wasn’t expecting what he got from Martin.

            The second line that was crossed was Martin. A verbal confrontation became physical and as the interviewee said, Zimmerman was not physically confrontational — he didn’t put his hands on anyone. Zimmerman is a big talker… a good talker too I’m certain. But it doesn’t fit that he would initiate a physical encounter. Martin, with a history of fighting and physically aggressive behavior and defiance of authority, is the most likely candidate for escallating the encounter to a physical conflict. And once again, it’s pretty evident that Zimmerman was not prepared for it.

            Zimmerman was overwhelmed by Martin’s skill at fighting. Lighter, faster and stronger, Zimmerman didn’t stand a chance against Martin, the guy Zimmerman p!ssed off in the wrong way at the wrong time in the wrong place.

            And that’s the thing. As I understand it, just making someone angry can’t be more than a misdemeanor and often isn’t even that. And it’s not much more than a public disturbance to hold a verbal confrontation in public. And that’s all this encounter ever should have been. Martin crossed that line. He beat the crap out of Zimmerman. Zimmerman, under this condition which he was clearly unprepared and untrained for, pulled his gun when the opportunity came about. Martin wasn’t shot in the back. Martin was shot while facing Zimmerman or so the evidence suggests.

            [Pure Speculation] What granted Zimmerman the opportunity to pull his gun? Who knows? Maybe Martin “said what he had to say” and was turning to walk away ‘victorious’ when Zimmerman said “hold it right there!” causing Martin to turn around to see the gun pointed at him.[/Pure Speculation]

            We will never know what really happened. We’ve got lots of bits and pieces, lots of questions and no good answers. The evidence shows Martin as the aggressor in a very one-sided fight. How and why the trigger was pulled, I am less certain about. Did Martin charge Zimmerman a second time? Did Zimmerman simply get Martin to face him before shooting so that he didn’t shoot him in the back? We can’t know. But it’s most important that we REALIZE what we can’t know and what we don’t know. Filling in those blanks with what we want to believe is simply bad and wrong.

            Martin crossed a serious line by making the encounter physical. In a nation where concealed handguns are a reality, people are best advised to be cautious and to control one’s anger and reactions. By becoming the aggressor, he created a condition which potentially justifies a deadly defensive reaction. Martin was just too young to recognize the risk he took when crossing the line from verbal to physical. And this is not speculation, the evidence supports this view rather well.

            I see this incident is nearly the same light as aggressive drivers on the road. Sometimes road rage becomes deadly. And in those cases, punishment is warranted. I actually can’t believe I am arriving at this conclusion today because even a few hours ago, I believed that as stupid as Zimmerman was, he doesn’t deserve to be punished for this incident. But now I am having second thoughts on that.

            I am still not convinced that this was AT ALL racially motivated and does not fit as a hate crime. But the two created the situation but the more serious offender in that escallation and the one who made the most final and deadly choice was Martin. After Martin beat up Zimmerman, Zimmerman became les capable of thoughtful and rational behavior and he used the only tool he had to defend himself as he was clearly and demonstrably outmatched by Martin physically.

            • I can definitely agree with some of your thoughtful comment. There are obviously some things I disagree with.

              For example, how do we know Martin wasn’t attacked, tackled, pushed down, etc. during a chase? This is what DeeDee suggests. It sounds like there is at least one other witness suggesting a chase scene leading up to a wrestling match (Note: definitely not an ass kicking).

              Do you believe Zimmerman when he says he was attacked from behind while returning to his vehicle (even though his vehicle was due west of where the 911 call ended and not south of the T at all)?

              I’m suggesting literally everything that has come out of Zimmerman’s mouth has been a lie to cover his ass. I’ll continue assuming this until a) Something he says is proven truthful and/or b) The prosecution or the Martin family lawyers present even one piece of evidence that is remotely questionable.

              “He’s not really even a full on “bully” either. A bully goes out of his way to make people miserable and it is often planned out.”

              Per what the middle eastern coworker mentions, Zimmerman was a bully by definition. Interestingly enough, he was said to only bully when he felt in a position of power. Meaning, the witness says (not verbatim) that Zimmerman would never go after somebody he felt was superior, bigger, stronger, etc.

            • Or even his equal for that matter.

              He’s picking on a guy who is already beset by troubles fitting in.
              That’s a guy who actually needs a connection and a friend.
              GZ is making it harder for him to come by friends, because
              of GZ ridicule of him. What has the guy done to deserve this
              kind of treatment from GZ?

              It’s kinda like GZ has found a guy hanging around the basketball
              courts with a bum leg, and he’s constantly reminding him that
              he can’t play basketball. What’s the point?

          • Let me interject this piece of speculation:

            The police knew GZ was the NW Captain, my guess is, if I was a superior officer, I’d want to know, from the Community Relations Officer, who was in charge of NW, “what the hell happened here?” “What are you telling these NW’ers?” “I thought you were supposed to have admonished them very stringently not to patrol while armed and not to follow?”

            At: Frederick Leatherman Law Blog, the lawyer seems to be mistakenly under the belief that these rules are pretty much optional for NW’ers. Such that a jury may or may not, be convinced that enforcement of these rules, is unnecessary and/or arbitrary. Of course, his point is well taken, that an untutored jury, might very well be convinced that these rules are just guidelines, that can be dispensed with at the Watcher’s choice.

            It will fall to the prosecutor to teach the jury, that these are the rules, devised by LEO professionals, to separate the N-Watch program from vigilantism that is illegal, that nobody wants and the people should fear. Because, “following” cuts both ways, it is an activity that can be read as threatening, by an innocent person being followed. The law, then gives that innocent person, the right to respond reasonably, to that threat.

            Suppose, for example, the person being followed is a young child of 8 to 10 years. Now, a neighbor who knows this child, but does not know the follower, may very well assume that the child is in serious danger. At the least this can provoke a dangerous confrontation, we can all imagine where a number of such events might lead.

            So, these are “hard and fast” rules, needed to prevent NW from turning into an additional source of danger to the community where they work. So to re-cap, it’s not just that there’s a right way and a wrong way to provide a NW. It’s that the wrong way provides another danger to the community, just like the one we have here. These rules are fashioned by LEO professionals, both to eliminate the provision of a new danger to the community, and to keep the programs objectives within the bounds of the law.

            Whatever else a NW’er may do, if they break these rules they’re given, it is the opinion of LEO professionals, that they would then be operating illegally.
            This twin set of objectives, is what leave a jury no other choice but to enforce the NW rules. It is not “optional”, either you want a safe and sane NW in your community, or you want a group of ad hoc vigilantee’s, doing whatever they desire.

            Unless someone believes that it is alright for the NW program to supplant the police, then they must make it clear that NW rules are as enforceable as law.
            Because, NW’ers who step outside of these rules, are actually law breakers up to a point. There are only a very few situations where, a civilian is allowed to put themselves in harms way and not wait for LEO’s to respond. This, clearly was not one of them! Thus, if these rules are not enforced by a jury, at every opportunity, then Law Enforcement Officials, lose control of a program that can be very dangerous itself.

            Again, let me stress, if GZ was not a trained NW’er, and he was following a suspicious person, then he may have been out of line for doing so, but we cannot know what rules he should have observed, because we don’t know what rules he was aware of.

            While, on the other hand, we have a trained and informed NW’er who willfully sets aside the rules he has been given, and engages in the dangerous conduct the rules are designed to prevent. And that’s not to mention the several opportunities he had to unwind the hostilities by merely identifying himself and explaining his purposes!

            While I see no evidence that TM actually struck GZ, I have to say that, if he did, it was only because he felt his personal activities were being dangerously intruded upon without good reason, by a person who could not, or would not, explain himself.

            One thing no one can deny is, that Trayvon was due an answer when he asked “What are you following me for?” That question quite clearly demonstrates that Trayvon was being seriously put upon. GZ had no right to induce any such fears in anyone, not only because the law forbids it, but because his own rules should have forbade such conduct as well.

            Instead GZ operates like the burglar who believes he has a right to be in your house, and therefore has a right to defend himself against your actions to control him. People who are excusing GZ from NW rules, are, in effect, saying that the burglar is somehow right!

      • @rissey –

        I agree. I wonder if the police searched the grounds beyond the first grassy cut-through since they didn’t bother to do door-to-door searching for the whole block on either side of the cut throughs. What are we talking about — 12-15 houses on either side?

        I wish they had reached Brandy Green’s home on the Retreat View Circle side and maybe they’d know Trayvon Martin wasn’t “john doe”. I wish they’d investigated the Twin Trees side more thoroughly as well and then we’d know for certain where George Zimmerman parked his Honda SUV before his wife moved it.

        • Give or take 25 feet or so, Zimmerman is toast if he tries to say he parked his vehicle anywhere other than where indicated on my map.

          The clubhouse video from early the next morning could show the vehicle’s location. So could the dash cam from the responding police officers. And, I’ll be shocked if the investigators at the scene that night didn’t get at least a single picture of the parked vehicle. Why? Trayvon was doing something suspicious in the area per Zimmerman so they’d have a reason to comb his known path to the back corridor for stolen goods, weapons etc.

          • Yes… And drugs! Which they know that dealers will drop at the first sign of trouble, in hopes of retrieving them later. GZ does mention drugs eh?

      • NLME that was a very interesting interview with the past coworkers. GZ is a con artist… I wish the anonymous caller would come forward, because it would be important to know what this guy did to her to make her so anxious. What if this was a past girlfriend or his wife? If people are truly scared of him, it may include his family.

        • Anonymous caller? The neighbor that was interviewed in disguise saying Zimmerman was an aggressive person that frequently profiled people? There’s a darn YouTube video somewhere — I just have to track it down.

      • Daniel I guess you have forgotten the domestic assault and assault of the officer, which were expunged for GZ’s record. If you are going to defend him, at least use the real past signs and signals. Look, I’ll give you that GZ was young when some of this stuff happened, but most none violent people don’t have these types of issues at all… This guy is no victim and is VERY calculating and likely intelligent. When the FBI profiles a killer or crime, they look at things like past behaviors. It IS relevant.

      • I’m sorry about that…I’ve just started wading into the post from 3/27 and figured since the thread there was long, I’d bring it over here. Duly noted on the dates.

    • Princss6 –

      If Tracy Martin had looked out Brandy Green’s back window, what would he have seen? I don’t think the crime scene tape/markers were behind his home, but rather stopped further down the block (where they probably wouldn’t see in the darkness) because the police seem to have only blocked off section 1 and possibly section 2 of the townhouses. Brandy Green’s home would have been section 3 — out of viewable scope. IOW, nobody knew at the time of marking the crime scene that Zimmerman chased the child back down the path to where the slaying occurred.

      Also, Brandy Green’s home is near the back entrance and she and Tracy Martin probably entered there — not seeing a thing related to what transpired in the hours prior to their arrival.

      • Princss6 was quoting a paragraph in the original posting (which I forgot about until today but have since struckthrough).

    • “He performs best with an audience and in situations. It’s not fitting… he’s more of a performer trying to make himself look good at the expense of others, not someone who is specifically out to get anyone.”

      He *is out to get someone. He’s determined to not let his wrongfully perceived black young person get away. I *do agree that Zimmerman is skilled at performing in front of his audience and painting others as bad guys to make himself look like the good guy, like the hero.

      The evidence of previous co-workers having the experience of first-hand experience of bullying them (or others) and interpreting Zimmerman’s need to put down others to ingratiate himself with the “in crowd” of non-minorities is very, very telling.

    • Note that police will not usually accept a missing persons report until the person has been missing 24 hours.

      • Yeah, but if it’s from the same street where they just brought in a dead John Doe, they can put 2 and 2 together………

75. I have put some work on the witness that saw two people chasing each other. She is an interesting witness as her account also suggests a longer argument prior to the scuffle than what GZ states.

    I’ve started with trying to locate the witness by using the edited report (cf. pp 40 & 41) and the witness location I have already provided. From that work, it appears the witness probably is Bahadoor Selene S living in 2841 RVC, the house right south from the Teacher’s and right north from Selma & Mary.

    To find out the street name, I used a technique I’ve already used which is overlapping street names text (Retreat View Circle or Twin Trees Lane) with the text from the report to find out the edited address. The text from the report is a xeroxed from the original document, so there are distortions. However, I could get a very good match using bold-Arial font size 12 with minor resizing of the report. The only street name that would fit in the blacked out portion of the text is RVC.

    From my previous work, I had the names of all home owners in the area. I had already identified most of the witnesses that we knew about. I’ve excluded them. That allowed me to focus on a smaller number of houses.

    From the witness statements, we know she saw shadows of TM & GZ, she heard them arguing and she saw them fist fight all from her upstairs bedroom. Therefore, she had to be living near the spot of the scuffle.

    Only one house matches all criteria given above that is the one on 2841 Retreat View Cir owned and occupied (she has a business running in there) by Selene Bahadoor (39).

    Selene adds to DeeDee, the Teacher & Jonathan Manalo (not to be confused with Johnathan Good aka John) as witness of the seconds leading to the scuffle. In that sense, she is pretty key.

    She was upstairs when she heard a commotion, which I understand as a loud argument. She looked out and saw the chasing between the 2 men 10-12 ft apart going north toward the T. Then she saw a fistfight and heard the gunshot.

    From what I read the argument has started while they were still in a chase instead of having a chase followed by the argument.

    GZ never stated that TM chased him. He said that TM approached him from the rear. He never stated that TM ran after him and that he ran away during their exchange of words.

    Taken apart, none of the witness can give a good account of the events, but taken together, the story that is being drawn points to lies on GZ’s side.

    • Excellent, excellent observation and comment. Thank you (again).

    • We know that GZ’s lies often involve lies of omision based on leaving out his $200K revenue raise versus his indigent status, so I can agree with your synopsis that GZ lies — and he’s getting all caught up in his lies as more and more of the evidence is presented to the public. I understand from the news and from Zimmerman’s attorney, we’ve only gotten about half of the evidence. The State prosecution has much, much more.

    • Check out the Orlando Sentinal today. They have a video report on the front page of this witness recanting! She is now saying she only saw (heard?) feet running (and maybe only one person), but still attests to the fistfight.They are actually reporting that 2 witnesses are changing their stories.The lady who saw two people one atop the other is now sure the top person must have been Zimmerman because she now knows he was the far stockier person.
      The lead line mentioned something about 4 witnesses changing their stories. The 3rd must be John. Who is the fourth?

      • From tchoupi — mentions each of the 4 witnesses:

        http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent

        • Witness 6:

          “I truly can’t tell who, after thinking about it, was yelling for help just because it was so dark out on that sidewalk,” he said.

          My note——————————=============———————–
          Sounds like a comedy act: “I couldn’t see who was yelling because it was dark!”
          ——————————=============———————–

          Zimmerman told him that Trayvon “was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him,” the witness told Serino. The Neighborhood Watch captain then asked the witness to call his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, and tell her what happened.

          My note——————————=============———————–
          You don’t have to shoot someone whose only beating you with their
          hands. Especially not if you outweigh them by 60 or so lbs. All
          you have to do is fight back with your hands. Instead GZ reached
          for his gun.

          In any event, the autopsy report doesn’t bear out that TM was
          striking any blows, to what would have been GZ’s bloody face.
          Blood is a very sticky substance, you can’t hit a bloody face and
          not pick up dna! You can’t handle someone’s head and not pick
          up dead skin cells with your hands.

          He’ll probably change his story again, when the FBI interviews him.
          ——————————=============———————–

          In two subsequent interviews about a month later — one with an FDLE investigator and one with de la Rionda — the witness described Zimmerman’s demeanor in greater detail, adding that he spoke as if the shooting were no big deal.

          My note——————————=============———————–

          Very odd for a person whose never killed anyone before and
          who never intended to kill anyone then. I’ll leave that for the
          psychologist to work out.
          ——————————=============———————–

          Zimmerman’s tone, the witness said, was “not like ‘I can’t believe I just shot someone!’ — it was more like, ‘Just tell my wife I shot somebody …,’ like it was nothing.”

          My note——————————=============———————–
          That’s it??? Just tell my wife? Nothing in terms of personal
          regret for a young human life taken? Sounds to me like he
          came to this shooting psychologically prepared!

          Now we really need to know how he get’s these wounds, since TM
          never touched his head! Not every move out there was witnessed,
          and there were people there moving around, that no one can say
          what they were doing. Yet, the wounds seem to have congealed
          blood on them, they don’t change shape or show orange spreading
          from the rain. They have trails that seem to be already fixed in place.
          Like they’re more than just a few minutes old.

          Compare how they look in subsequent pictures, I don’t believe, if
          more pictures were taken, you’ll see the blood has spread or the
          trails extended. Hopefully more pictures than just that one were
          taken then. Were there police taking pictures with their cell phones?
          It seems there were. What say you all?

76. Daniel said: “Was TM somehow incapacitated…”? That is beyond speculation. The evidence indicates clearly that Martin was dominating the situation. This is to say that regardless of opinions about who started what, Martin was seen by multiple witnesses on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him.”

    @Daniel: Apparently, only half of the evidence has been released for public viewing. I am beginning to think GZ fell and hit his head or nose when chasing and holding on to this kid. Too many people have been calling the interaction “wrestling”! I do think that TM was on top at some point, but when two people are wrestling they may trade positions. So who was on top at what time may not be relevant. I also don’t think the gunshot wound is consistent with TM being on top. Look at the position of the wound. If you are wrestling, how do you get the gun straight —between reaching for a holstered gun and wrestling—- in order to give a straight entry wound into the right ventricle. It would make more sense if it entered into TM’s side. Also the projectory had to have a slightly downward slant to deflect or continue downward between the 5th intercostal space of the lung. People here are talking about evidence and many witnesses testimonies not just about the words of GZ or one witness, Jon who saw a slit in time. If you read you will understand that Jon left and never saw the point of the shot going off, so he will not be a good witness for that point in the fight. Capish?

    • Exactly. There is no way that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin from an on the ground position and achieved a straight in position. No possibility. None. I am not a forensic or crime scene expert and even I can see that just based on arm lengths and alternative scenarios.

    • Your description of wrestling is extremely speculative and interpretive. What you call wrestling seems to imply that the event is two-sided. I guarantee you there can be and have been very one-sided fights that could be described as wrestling. What’s more, the evidence supports the contention that it was one-sided as Martin didn’t exhibit any defensive wounding.

      Given the ballistic evidence we have so far, it is completely unrealistic to suggest that Zimmerman was on his back when he shot Martin. I doubt anyone is currently suggesting that was the case. It seems evident that the two managed to put distance between themselves after the initial exchange. But we know Martin was facing Zimmerman when the shot was fired. “Shot in the back” would have been repeated a million times a minute if that were the case. We don’t know what motivated the pulling of the trigger. But we know the fight was one-sided and we know that Zimmerman must have been pretty badly shaken and possibly in a state of fear for his life.

      • Basically every witness called it a wrestling match or scuffle. There’s one witness that called it MMA style fighting but he later recanted this statement.

        So that we’re on the same page: You know Zimmerman’s family doctor said he LIKELY had a broken nose (no X-rays needed?) and wounds that required soapy water (and didn’t even require a bandaid at the scene).

        That is not an ass kicking. An ass kicking puts the victim in the ER with an unrecognizably swollen face for a few days/weeks. Moreover, the aggressor would end up with more than a single small abrasion below the ring finger knuckle.

        • There seems to be a LOT of recanting going on. This only helps Zimmerman’s defense. Recanting only means that a witness is less certain and less reliable. The physical evidence, which most definitely favors Zimmerman, will be the only reliable evidence in the case.

          • Let’s wait until we hear all the versions of that fateful night that Zimmerman has given to police and investigators.

        • Not only that, but TM has no martial arts training. My guess
          is that throwing MMA style punches requires some kind of
          training. Did TM take martial arts courses? I didn’t see anyone
          say that he did. Although, I get the impression that this witness
          loves MMA programs. Will probably have CD’s to boot.

          But the basic problem with TM throwing blows is, his hands have to exhibit contact with GZ, who’s bleeding and sloughing off cells. It doesn’t take
          much in the way of contact with a person to pick up their dna. But there’s
          no trace, no fibers, no dna on TM’s hands. So we can safely say they
          did not come into contact with GZ in any manner, not just a violent manner.

          Given this, I can just as easily say that GZ may have pulled TM down
          on top of himself! If he did. But, it also seems more likely that the person
          on top of GZ, if that was the case, wasn’t TM at all. Who knows? Because even after the shot is taken, there’s still time for GZ to get a few things done, even more if he has some help. I’m not saying that was the case, but just that I’m still thinking.

          • Not that it really matters but MMA is the type of fighting where people get in a cage, roll around a bit, and then somebody submits.

            Yes, it has martial arts in the title but we’re not talking about something that requires specialized martial arts training. You basically need to be effective at pummeling somebody on the ground.

            Note: “John” has since recanted his story and said Trayvon was just holding Zimmerman down (at one point).

            • Hmmm… So here’s yet another opportunity for GZ to simply say: “I’m the Neighborhood Watch Captain, stop it! Instead GZ goes for his gun???
              Why is he so intent on keeping his identity and title secret from TM?

              At this point he has a clear idea that TM thinks he’s a hostile person!
              Why does he continue to act with hostility? Is he mad because he’s
              let this little teenager knock him down? Is his focus on getting even?
              Is that why he dispenses with the opportunity to try to end the hostilities?

              How come he never remembers how he got into trouble by assaulting a police officer who didn’t identify himself? The two ideas never seem to come together.
              Even though, I’m certain that, that was one of the possibilities that was discussed and/or covered in that 14 hour course! That following could be mistaken by an innocent person as stalking for an illegal and perhaps dangerous purpose. Because that’s yet another reason why it shouldn’t be done. Most especially not with a weapon, since that raises the level to which such a misunderstanding can rise.

      • Actually, several witnesses used the word “wrestling”. I am not saying that Martin didn’t hit him in the dark. But he may have thought that was the only way to get away. I think that GZ tried to detain him somehow. How simple it would have been for GZ to introduce himself in the dark. Who follows people in the dark? If this were a woman and GZ got into a struggle with her, would our perception be different? A woman could be a criminal…. I guess the profiling is an issue because he didn’t wait for the cops and he scared another person by approaching too close and then ended up killing him. There is no evidence that this person had any reason to jump GZ. He had cash in his pocket and he retreated even though the law says that he didn’t need to. This was documented during the phone call to the dispatcher.

        Also GZ says that he pulled the trigger while his head was being bashed into the ground. If it isn’t that, what is it? I think that he executed this kid by deliberately putting his weapon where he knew there was a heart.

    • If Trayvon is pinning his arms down as Zimmerman claims, wouldn’t the gun be behind Trayvon. So two questions – how does Trayvon go for the gun and more importantly how does Zimmerman get the gun. With all the verbiage spewed from the Zimmerman camp, they never once discuss how George gets his gun in position to shoot Trayvon.

77. This is a good article from OrlandoSentinel concerning 4 witnesses changing their accounts. It pretty much damages GZ’s defense. The last one from Flashlight draws a scary picture of GZ’s mind state that night.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent

    • Actually, four witnesses changing their accounts is not damaging to Zimmerman’s case. It is rather helpful to Zimmerman’s case. This is why the initial reports and interviews are the most important. Other people, discussion, speculation and even pressures have a way of changing our perceptions of what happened in the past. Any reasonably good defense attorney would make any story-changing witness look incredibly weak and unreliable. This is especially true of four accounts which were initially not similar became more consistent later… it speaks of collaboration.

      The most important evidence will come from initial reports and forensic study. Anything after that tends to be warped by politics, and other human factors.

      • The most damning change in stories will be courtesy of Zimmerman. It’s a shame we have to wait for this info to come out.

        • That the most damning testimony will likely be his own is true of most defense cases. Defense attorneys most often recommend the client not testify because this leaves them open to cross-examination. This is true in nearly all cases, not only in Zimmerman’s.

          • No, I was saying the several versions of that night which Zimmerman has already given to police and investigators will bury him. Those have yet to be released.

            • Your own belief that Zimmerman is essentially a sociopathic conman is in a bit of a conflict with the belief that he has told multiple, ostensibly conflicting stories of the events. To my experience those things are mutually exclusive. Conmen, and especially sociopathic conmen, are pretty good about keeping stories simple and believable. It allows them to be more consistent in the end and any deficiencies can be attributed to mental or emotional trauma of having just killed someone.

              @tchoupi

              1. No evidence? That eye witnesses saw one person beating another repeatedly about the face and that Zimmerman’s face and nose were consistent with those accounts? The “girlfriend witness” is always biased. Juries know this. Judges know this.
              2. The former co-worker never asserted that he was violent. In fact, he started to assert to the contrary. I have no direct knowledge of the other assertions you have made. Produce a police report. Without it, it’s hearsay.
              3. Good. We agree on that. The rest of the “revenge over truth” crowd doesn’t.
              4. You ever been in a fight? I’ve been on both sides… the winning and the losing. Regardless of actual injuries suffered, the most critical is the injury to the brain while it’s going on. Thought, reasoning, logic, rationality — all gone in the blink of a survival instinct. Martin being right or left handed is nearly irrelevant. But clearly you show yourself as someone inexperienced in that area. But even a casual glance at fighters of all sorts would show you that they use BOTH hands. Of course “negative on fingernails.” If it were positive for DNA on fingernails, it would prove the fight was two-sided. Only defenders use fingernails especially in “wrestling.”
              5. People can contradict each other and even themselves. That’s bad enough. But so far, I haven’t seen much in the way of Zimmerman’s actual testimony or statements. The real danger is when anything is said in contradiction of physical evidence. Has there been any?

            • There are reports of 5 different but occasionally similar stories from Zimmerman.

              Not in a snarky tone but did you see the bond hearing? The prosecution questioned Zimmerman on why he didn’t remember certain details of that night whenever convenient. As previously noted, if Zimmerman on the stand would be like my Christmas as a kid, his stories being released would be like my birthday party.

            • That’s the thing isn’t it? You’ve got him all convicted and wrapped up before you’ve heard anything. That’s American justice isn’t it? Ideals like “beyond a reasonable doubt” and “until proven guilty” seem to mean nothing to you or most people.

              And so far, there has been far more violence, destruction and hate as a result of this than the original incident. While this forum maintains its civility for the most part, it’s still one largely occupied by the “presumed guilty” side who seem as though they see this as a sport and they have placed all bets on the prosecution.

            • Zimmerman is definitely innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. This blog isn’t a court of law.

      • I think that it depends on how the story changes. It is clear that GZ contaminated witnesses by interacting with them on the scene. It is also clear from the report that the SPD’s investigation that they were partial to GZ and completely ignored victim’s right to have a proper investigation into his identity and homicide. I think that there is some pretty incriminating evidence that the defense is weighing on whether to release. I suspect that as people have been saying, GZ interacted with witnesses after the fact…

      • Daniel says: “Any reasonably good defense attorney would make any story-changing witness look incredibly weak and unreliable.”

        Unless that witness happens to be more on the defense side. Right?

        #####

        Daniel says: “This is especially true of four accounts which were initially not similar became more consistent later… it speaks of collaboration.”

        You can’t cry conspiracy every time you’re contradicted. I’ve put hypothesis in here that happened to be contradicted later on. I just had to swallow it and build from it. Briefly, it may simply speaks of reason after emotion.

        #####

        Daniel says” “The most important evidence will come from initial reports and forensic study. Anything after that tends to be warped by politics, and other human factors.”

        Please, keep politics out of it. This is not the place.

      • Good point. DeeDee hasn’t changed her story yet and she is the one who witnessed the stalking by car, the stalking by foot, the chase and the confrontation. Maybe she’ll be the state’s “star” witness.

78. It makes sense that the defense would only feel comfortable releasing less damning evidence first. It also keeps the cash flowing in for longer. I think that these folks donating like he is a hero will feel like idiots once they release his emails and texts from after the incident. Also didn’t we see him on the phone in the bloodied head photo? I would really like to know who he was calling.

    • San San B,

      Your bring up some good points, and for the most part, I agree. I wonder how his supporters would feel if they knew, in addition to lying by omission about the funds in the Pay-Pal account, and indigency, etc., the family also lied about receiving death threats which caused them to move and allegedly quit their jobs. Shellie admitted it during the bond hearing.

      Of course O’Mara would love nothing more than ride this out, if only for his own benefit.

      Now, I slightly disagree with you about this latest 183 page media dump. Quite frankly, I don’t think O’Mara wanted some of this evidence to come out and this point. IMHO, it is not favorable, or “less damaging” to his client.

      I’ve not seen anything that sheds a positive light on his client. At first it was just heresay about him having racist behavior, now there are witnesses who state that he does, and have been known to act in racist ways.

      Even Ofc. Timothy Smith states in his narrative, on least 4 different occasions he offered him a chance to be taken to the ER or have SPF come take another look at him and he refused each time.

      He stated he checked on him every 15-20 minutes while being interviewed at the station if he needed anything, and all he asked for was tissues, water, and to use the bathroom.

      I’m still looking for the bloody nose photo with the 2 black eyes, or anything that remotely resembles “The Shaking Baby Syndrome”.

      • …And he’s not in pain. Pain has to be the aftermath of any serious beating. After the shooting there should have been some post traumatic stress. My guess is, that is what the officer was looking for. That he didn’t find it is telling.

    • I breezed by an article yesterday that mentions that the donations seem to have dried up. He’s getting less than 1k a day now, in amounts of just 5 and 10 dollars. I think it was either a Wapo, Huffpo or some other news site. I was only looking at the biggs then, circulation near or over a million.
      Maybe it was an Orlando or Miami paper website. I can’t remember because I was looking for something else.

      • I saw it also. Since the bond hearing, the media was reporting daily that over $200K was raised and that some guy made money off of selling paper gun targets made out to be Trayvon Martin’s image.

      • I’d like to be getting “just 1k a day” for my website!! But Viking Age history ain’t nearly as interesting I guess.

      • Lonnie Starr,

        Ooooo! Ouch! That’s gotta be hurting. Hope it doesn’t cause O’Mara to fall back into his bad money management habits.

        O’Mara Fails To Pay Taxes and Rent
        http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1999-11-14/news/9911120354_1_o-mara-unpaid-bar

        T. G.

79. Daniel,

    From your reply to post 77, I can see that you’re getting the bug. So, welcome to this blog. Even if I have to admit that the blog is biased against GZ, it really is discussing facts. You won’t find much disparaging, insulting, political comments. No conspiracy theory is needed.

    Still, you have some way to go before you really get your facts straight:
    1) There is no evidence TM attacked GZ. None. Zip. There is one witness who says so and that witness happens to be the killer. Moreover, there is a counter witness who saw nothing bet heard it all. That is DeeDee. She was on the phone all the way from the 7-11. She has her story to tell and it can’t be dismissed because the killer says something different.
    2) In your reply to 77, you state that you can’t see GZ being violent. You’ll have to explain that to the lady threw by anger when he worked as a security guard (he was fired for that), or to the cop a fought with while being arrested, or to his ex-fiance. He had to take anger management training. The mister Hyde, as his former co-worker called him, may still be around after all.
    3) Racism… I never bought into it either. NMLE can confirm it. However, there is more and more report suggesting he had a problem of that nature. I’ll wait to see if I have to change my views on that.
    4) Beaten the crap out… Definitely not. Sure he had a bloody head after his introduction to TM but nothing serious. You can read the medical report from SFD. He was cleared to go with SPD right on the spot. He was certainly not massacred by TM. Even John, the only witness who saw TM punching GZ, now says that the MMA-style comment was wrong. There is zero evidence on TM’s body of a major fight, just on cut to a left-hand finger (you can see from the 7-11 video that he was right handed => no evidence he was punching for a minute). There is zero DNA evidence he grabbed GZ’s head to bang it on the pavement (Negative DNA test to finger-nails 7 cuffs/lower sleeves). Okay, not finding DNA doesn’t mean there was none. It only means it was below the detection level.
    5) Finally, beyond being contradicted by DeeDee, GZ’s stories are not consistent with many witnesses’ and even not self-consistent.

    • Wow! I hadn’t even read your post here yet and I posted something similar above regarding DeeDee. She did hear it all right up to the confrontation. The defense can’t seem to get around that and instead try to attack her character.

    • TO: tchoupi.caillou,

      Wow! As always, you are just so amazing! Thank you for calling that out, and with such accurate information.

      I’m just dumbfounded by the fact that there are some people who are willing to suspend all logic and common sense in order to have this travesty fit their narrative.

      I do feel a large majority of the people posting here are trying their best to be OBJECTIVE despite the overwhelming evidence that shows Detective Chris Serino had good reasons for wanting to arrest the confessed murderer, and attempted to do just that.

      And it goes without saying, if the SP did not have cause, there would not have been an arrest.

      Even O’Mara has to operate with a healthy dose of objectivity if he is to be of the greatest assistance to his client.

      What an excellent post. Keep up the great work!

    • Daniel, you replied to my post in an earlier one.
      I would again recommend that you to watch closely the details. you can find most of them in police reports without relying on medias.

      1) You state that there is a witness that was beating up GZ. That witness is Johnathan Good aka John, he lives in 1221 Twin Trees Lane. The scuffle happened right at his back porch. He indeed is the one having the best view on what happened. Nevertheless, what he saw is the scuffle, not what lead to it. This is a huge difference. We don’t need John’s statement to know there was a scuffle between the 2 men. The only information you can get out of John’s account is that TM was on top of GZ at some point about 1min before the gunshot. Finally, John is one of the 4 witnesses who came later saying that actually, TM was not beating GZ so hard, which we already knew from the fact that his ambulance was recalled and from the SFD’s report.
      2) Actually the co-worker called GZ Dr Jekyll & Hyde. GZ was fired for violently dealing with a drunk female customer. (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-30/news/os-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-coworker-20120330_1_security-guard-full-report-worker). For the rest, they aren’t hearsays. GZ went before justice for violence on a police officer (you must have seen the mugshot). He was actually ordered a anger management course. GZ also had a restraining order filed against him by his ex-fiance. So, it is pretty well documented.
      3) We agreed on that one
      4) I have to agree with you that I’m not an expert in street fighting. That said, I did/do enough martial arts over the course of my life to know that being left or right hand makes a difference. In any case, that was not my comment. Point #3 was about the fact that whatever beating GZ received, and in spite of the bloody pictures, his wounds were all superficial and required no medical treatment. This is also very well documented. And the fact that John now says TM was actually not MMA fighting just confirms what Emergency people said. Actually, at that time GZ agreed with it without realizing that by seeking no treatment and by looking for a doctor’s approval to go to work the next day, he was killing a line of defense.
      5) The documents concerning GZ’s testimony haven’t been released yet. However, the bond hearing shows that GZ’s self contradictions is the prosecution’s big line of attack. For example in one account GZ states that he pulled his gun and killed TM because he feared for his life while in another account he said TM saw the weapon, said something like “you’re going to die tonight”, a fight for the weapon followed and GZ won. This is just one example among many others. The message here is that GZ lies about the events on that night. he would have been the victim, he won’t need lies.

      • tchoupi.caillou,

        Another excellent post.

        I agree with you that it does make a difference which hand is one’s dominant hand contrary to what Daniel seems to think.

        The confessed murderer apparently thought it was important enough to mention to SPD during their investigation that Trayvon covered his mouth with his LEFT-HAND, preventing him from breathing or yelling for help, while repeatedly bashing his head into the concrete.

        I’m sure this, as well as his many versions of the incident will come up during the trial.

      • I have studied martial arts, and the only “safe” way to hit someone in the head is a ridge strike or a palm strike (safe for the martial artist so you don’t break your hands, I mean). (Okay, you can kick them in the head, too, but that’s harder in a street fight than you’d think.)

        For a ridge strike, make the stereotypical “karate chop hand” with the thumb ticked under: the striking surface is the top of the index finger back to the base of the thumb. This is a blow you’d use to strike someone (perhaps quite fatally) at the temple, where the bone is not so thick. A knife strike is the same hand position but uses the opposite side of the hand much like a karate chop, but isn’t real useful for a head strike, it’s more what you would use on the neck or a joint.

        For a palm strike, make your hand like you plan to claw something, fingers folded over but not obscuring the palm. Thumb is usually cocked back a little: the striking surface is the heel of the palm, what you are doing with your fingers and thumb is getting them out of the way so they don’t get broken.

        If you strike a person in the head with a closed fist, you risk cutting your hand on their teeth (think severely nasty bacteria in the mouth infecting that cut too); if you strike a cheekbone, chin, or the skull, it’s very much like hitting a wall or punching your refrigerator, and at the LEAST you will skin up your knuckles, they will swell and bruise, and if real force went into it, expect boxer’s fracture.

        As for bashing a skinhead into the ground in a light rain where it’s damp and he’s struggling, no hair for traction? No way, José! I’d think if you tried, you’d end up shoving your thumbs into the victim’s eyeballs. This is also not what a martial artist would do from this position, when there are many better ways to kill or disable.

        Zimmerman’s nicks and scrapes on his head and face simply do not match a palm or ridge strike. He’d have bruising or worse with a ridge strike. A palm strike would have shoved his nose back into his face (which if done hard enough is fatal), or snapped his head back, possibly knocking him down, and he’d have been complaining of a whiplash injury.

        Mary and her roommate observed Zimmerman putting his hands to his had in what they called “the universal gesture of OMG what have I done”. I think he was using that time to gouge small divots in the back of his head, personally. It’s not hard to do, and lots of people do it simply as a nervous habit. That would get those VERY small bleeding wounds.

80. NLME said:
    “The middle eastern coworker that was harassed by Zimmerman stated during his interview with investigators that George was very convincing.”

    Zimmerman thought this as well. His myspace page attests to this as well as his complete snow job on his family. One of the attorneys for the Martin family represented Sherman Ware, the homeless man assaulted by the SPD cop’s son. The Zimmerman family has put forth that he was out passing out flyers in support of Sherman Ware. One problem, the attorney, Natalie Jackson has never met Zimmerman and she was highly involved in the awareness campaign and protest as Ware’s lawyer.

    His belief in his ability to be convincing is also evidenced by his arrest. O’Mara likes to say now that Zimmerman turned himself in. He didn’t. He had been trying to contact the prosecutors office for a few days to talk to them sans lawyer. On the day he was arrested, he went into the Jacksonville prosecutors office to talk with them, unscheduled and unannounced. Coincidentally, the charges came down while he was in the office and he was detained and arrested. O’Mara stated this the day of Zimmerman’s arrest in an article. Zimmerman had no idea he was going to be arrested but figured he could smooth it over if he could just talk to them. I can provide links if anyone needs it and apologies if this has already been discussed.*

    * This may have come from the Orlando Sentinel article. If so, I won’t be able to get it because they’ve placed me behind a pay wall for accessing their website frequently. Hmmm…what a way to make a buck!

    • Interesting — I didn’t know that! Do you have any keywords or article title that I can google for a link?

      • Natalie Jackson has changed her blog to private. She did post an open letter about Sherman Ware there and posted the link on twitter. No doubt she has moved it to private due to the high profile nature of the case and other unsavory issues. Here is the link http://attorneynataliejackson.wordpress.com

        The lawyer has expressed fears for Zimmerman’s safety and he said Zimmerman went to the prosecutor’s office in Jacksonville Wednesday out of concern for his safety, unaware he would be arrested and charged with murder.

        http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-apologize-trayvon-martins-family-lawyer-tells/story?id=16123136#.T7xSNtxSRs4

        Aww so it was ABC.

        • Wow. I absolutely missed the fact that Zimmerman showed up to “talk it out” – rather than turn himself in – and was then arrested. Incredible.

          Did you read this in that same link?

          “Jail records show that he has several tattoos including theatrical masks on his left arm and a couple of crosses.”

          http://www.ehow.com/about_5033201_meaning-comedy-tragedy-masks.html

          Fitting that Zimmerman would be fond of acting from what we’ve seen so far.

          • Remember, if you google for something and get 404 or some such, there’s likely going to be a “cached” link below the excerpts some where. click that link to see the google saved document.

            • I don’t really know what I’m looking for but I see 2 postings on the cached version of the blog. Neither posting can be fully accessed.

              Some version of this letter (the url’s name suggest possible edits I guess) was posted to Ms. Jackson’s blog on April 26th…

              Click to access Response%20Letter%20to%20GZ%20Letters%20wEdits.pdf

              Here’s a snippet from her April 24th blog posting…

              http://topsy.com/attorneynataliejackson.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/open-reply-to-an-email-question-about-gzs-apology-2/

      • NLME,

        I’ve posted this on your blog about 1 1/2 month ago. I guess you didn’t see it. Don’t feel too bad, doesn’t seem as though anybody else saw it either. I can only imagine how busy you must be, trying to respond to each and every post. No problem, here it is again.

        Sgt. Anthony Raimondo was the first high ranking officer on the murder crime scene of Trayvon Martin. I’m still trying to figure out what in the he$$ was he still doing on active duty 6 weeks after he covered up the savage beating of Mr. Sherman Ware. And to think that this is the same officer who, according to SPD police report, administered CPR to Trayvon.

        In the video, you can actually hear the friends of Justin Collison, Lt. Collison’s son, telling him he’s wrong for what he is doing.

        Video 2010 Sanford Fl: Cop Son Caught On Camera Beating Black Homeless Man…Sergeant Anthony Raimondo Declined To Arrest Him; Same Sergeant That Didn’t Arrest Zimmerman

        http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/trayvon-martin-case-anthony-raimondo-first-officer-in-charge-of-scene-involved-in-previous-cover-up.php#46821243

        http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

        This is the letter purported to be written by “The Zimmerman Family”. It came out just days before Wolf, the SAO, blasted Mr. Crump regarding:

        “asking the U.S. Justice Department to review the investigation for possible interference by Wolfinger’s office on the night Martin was shot to death by Neighborhood Watch leader George Zimmerman.”

        http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/purported-zimmerman-family-letter-demands-naacp-call-off-the-dogs.php?page=2

        Something tells me the same person who wrote Wolf’s letter is the same person who wrote “The Zimmerman Family” letter. Both letters have the same, identical tone.

        What’s really interesting about “The Zimmerman Family” letter is that it literally tells the NAACP to “call off your dogs”. Now this is coming from people who claim to not have a racist bone in their body, but they or their proxy, sends out a letter spewed with race hate, to the point of calling black people dogs. Go figure.

        Wolf’s letter

        Click to access Norm_Wolfinger_Statement_on_Letter_to_DOJ.pdf

        T.G.

        • Not in a snarky tone but can you sum this up in a few sentences?

          Sherman Ware has come up a few times tonight and I’m clueless. I read stuff about a cop, cop’s son, beating, homeless man, Martin family lawyer, Zimmerman saying he passed out flyers but may not have, etc. and have given up until I get in front of a PC again and can do some research.

          And, again, I truly apologize for missing your comments. There was a stretch where I was basically just approving anything that wasn’t spam and/or leaving very brief responses to comments.

      • TO: NLME,

        No need for an apology, no “snarky tone” taken. I tried my best in the last post to summarize it. Unfortunately, there are no short narratives other than Wolf’s.

        We’re talking about, what 5 different links/stories?

        Like I said before, I know you’re busy, don’t worry about responding until you’ve had a chance to read the links. I can wait. And besides, the people who post here have one another to exchange information with until you have time to read some of the post.

        You’ve been kind of enough to allow us into your “living room” to share our insights about this needless murder of an unarmed teenager, the least I can do is allow you time to digest the information and re-group before you respond.

        To take a page out of the confessed murderer’s book,
        “Please accept my apologies” if I appeared to be pressing you for a response, and know that is never my intention.

        Now, inhale, really deep……and exhale……….aahhh!

        T. G.

      • Oh I forgot to mention the way back machine, google for waybackmachine.com It archives almost everything that was ever on the web.

    • @ No Longer Mass Emailing – No I didn’t read it in the same link. I based it on his prior two attorneys comments and the Prosecutors comments. He had been trying to talk to the prosecutors office for a few days and he finally came in from out of state against attorneys advice, really scared for his safety right, to talk to the prosecutors. I don’t believe he needed to speak to the prosecutors office about his safety. Connecting all the dots, IMO, he figured he could talk his way out of it as he had done so many times before, even bragging about doing just that on his myspace page.

      • Clarification:

        “Did you read this* in that same link?”

        *this = the tattoo part from the ABC News link you posted…

        “Jail records show that he has several tattoos including theatrical masks on his left arm and a couple of crosses.”

        http://www.ehow.com/about_5033201_meaning-comedy-tragedy-masks.html

        Fitting that Zimmerman would be fond of acting from what we’ve seen so far.

    • Very interesting detail. Thanks princss6.

81. David: I think his dominant hand will matter in determining where the bullet enters and where the victim is. I am envisioning GZ as being more toward the sidewalk and TM toward the houses when the shot went off. If he was right-handed the location of that shot would be impossible on the ground. He would have to be left-handed and above TM. If TM were on the ground and GZ were standing above him that would be almost execution style.

    • The Kel-Tec shown in the police info dump is clearly a right-handed gun, The clip release and slide release levers are on the left side, where you’d be able to get at them with your thumb. Lefties but left handed guns (they are available!) with a reversed configuration.

82. I was reading up on Zimmerman’s first night in jail and while it’s tough to draw many conclusions from a tattoo, it looks like Zimmerman has a fondness for acting:

    “Jail records show that he has several tattoos including theatrical masks on his left arm and a couple of crosses.”

    http://www.ehow.com/about_5033201_meaning-comedy-tragedy-masks.html

    Fitting from what we’ve seen so far.

    Source:

    http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=16123136

    • Oooohhhhh..

      GZ has tatoos?

      He must be a thug and gang member then, too.

      All this fuss and it just turns out to be an ordinary gangland war….. 😉

      • Question: What does it say about a 28 year old who has tattoos? I disapprove but he’s an adult and he can do what he wants.

        Question: What does it say about a 17 year old [minor] who has tattoos? It says lots more. It says his parents aren’t watching or caring. It says he defies his parents if they were watching or caring. It also says he travelled in circles and circumstances where a 17 can get a tattoo as most professionals wouldn’t touch a 17 year old.

        Like it or not, we have two standards. One for adults and one for minors. And for good reason.

        • I don’t think tattoos make a bad or misguided person. I was pointing out that Zimmerman apparently has a fondness for acting, performing, being on the stage, etc. This makes sense given what we’ve seen so far.

      • Minors can have tattoos if permission granted by parents. Tracy Martin has at least…who’s to say that maybe he was with Trayvon at the time or gave permission for them. Stop acting like he’s the first and only rebellious teen! Since when did ‘inking’ become a ‘Profession’?!

      • The tattoo story is just childish. Nothing in TM’s or GZ tatoos suggest they are gang members. TM tattoed his mom’s name. GZ seem to have some interest for acting, at least that’s what his tattoos show. There is no gang sign tattooed, no kind of reference to violence or whatever in either individual.
        So, that tattoo story is just a waste of time. I was being sarcastic when I referred to GZ’s tattoos because some tried to depict TM as a thug using his tattoos as evidence. The issue is that they often had to dig for pictures of young black males that were not of TM to make their point. That’s why I had a good laugh when I read the autopsy report stating that TM’s teeth were all natural and in good health.

        • Yeah, my bad. I was simply making the assertion that Zimmerman apparently likes to act/play out scenes.

        • They had already proven that a white supremist faked those pictures of Trayvon that are still circulating, he owned up to doing it and was proud of it. Now we have a fight video that claimed it ia Trayvon fighting but this too has been proven false. Only people who are ignorant and know nothing of the case take this crap ans run with it because it makes them feel good. It is disgusting, the child is dead, what more do they want!!! Zimmerman is not nearly portrayed in such a way as Trayvon, he is just getting a pass all the way around isnt he !! The truth is, they know in their heart of heart Zimmerman is guilty, they only support Zimmerman because he killed a black kid point blank. Why else would the likes of a white supremacist and the likes of Bill Oreilly support Zimmerman. I am so sick of hearing about Al Sharpton etc, all this is brought up so they can justify their hate. Trayvon never asked for Al Sharpton to come to town because he is dead. Why is it that none of the hate is placed on the Sanford police and Zimmetman himself but instead they keep attacking Trayvon and his family. Calling them niggers, dogs, welfare recipients etc. I hope Zimmerman is proud of himself, what would his mothers father say or all those so called African American kids he mentored. What a piece of crap he and his lieing family who has covered his track for years is. He is a psycho and his anger and rage is out of control. Why else would a doctor prescribe a last ditch effort drug like adderall, this medicine is still being studied in labs in Universities. They wont even give it to kids, they try to stick to ritilin with them. This is, if he actually has adhd. We all assumed adhd but being in the medical field myself, I know doctors will prescribe drugs that are used for certain diseases on a patient just because of a certain situation. He is seeing a psychiatrist as well. I have a question, are there xrays for Zimmermans nose and head, I would like to know what it says, but I feel like their arent any. Zimmerman only went to the doctor so he could go back to work, was this related to the shooting or did he call in sick for something? I am curious as to how someone could kill a person and be so calm, if I killed somebody I would be a nervous wreck. Sorry for any typos I am using my phone. Thanks

          • Unrelated to your comment but Adderall is legit (in my opinion). 🙂

            • Adderall is legal. Yes, I know this. I just said it was a last ditch drug. Both the Adderall and Temazepam are his prescrptions.

            • I meant legit as in good stuff. 🙂

            • I apologize, I totally misunderstood you. I have followed this case from day one and I may have become somewhat obsessed with details, evidence, etc. I love this site, having people who have the intellect to discuss this case and actually use facts is great. Thanks

            • I was definitely vague (on accident).

    • I’d be interested in seeing these crosses, many groups select certain types of crosses to symbolize their ideals. GZ doesn’t impress as a particularly religious person. So these crosses may just hint at an affiliation.

      Often tat artist will advise customers as to just what a certain image means.
      Especially if it has been adopted by a gang or groups, the customer might not want to be associated with, even if they just picked the image because they think it is cool.

      • GZ was a very devout Roman Catholic. He served as an altar boy and volunteered for his parish. I think that was probably a sincere tatoo.

        • It’s a shame he didn’t learn bullying wasn’t a Christian value.

          Note: Though I’d like to think of myself as a pretty decent person, I have absolutely NO business talking Christian values. 🙂

    • riisey i agree. Blaming the victim has come to an all new low in this case. I always wonder why some people are so hell bent on defending zimmerman and to the degree they go to vilify the victim of a shooting. Sometimes i just think it is because race got brought into it which pisses people off, but how is that enough to justify the outright hate filled rants by so called adults on an unarmed dead teen and his grieving family.

      Also your comment about zimmerman wanting work clearance is a good one. I remember Taaffe or someone saying that zim was devestated and kept crying because of his distress, but the doctor said he sought treatment to get clearance for work (was he working at the time? i thought he wasn’t but never mind), doesn’t sound like someone who was cut up over the loss of life and crying all the time if he was just concerned with going back to work.

      • The defense of Zimmerman that we’re seeing across the internet isn’t entirely race driven.

        Should Zimmerman be convicted, it’s a huge blow to the NRA and gun owners alike — regardless of their race (though the NRA is predominately made up and run by whites*).

        So, that’s who is defending Zimmerman the most adamantly right now. Without being said, The NRA has the money and power to drive the narrative (I’m talking to you ABC News, Fox News, etc). Well, until the trial that is.

        * http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/04/robert-farago/rick-ector-why-the-nra-doesnt-include-blacks/

      • Daddy probably told him to get a doctor’s note and stay out of sight. The clearance piece was probably just to cover his absence for work the next week or so because he knew he would need to be hiding from his friends, co-workers and neighbors — people that would ask more detailed questions about what’s under the bandage he had on the next day. He needed nobody to see him.

        His employer, Digital Risk, put out a statement almost a month after the murder to say that George Zimmerman hasn’t been at their office since the death of Trayvon Martin.

        http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-george-zimmerman-digital-risk-20120324_1_maitland-firm-chief-bill-lee-statement

      • of course the NRA,i should have connected the dots, a lot of people throw out the ‘thug’ and ‘gang’ references and try to justify the shooting and yes it probably is more likely NRA related than a dislike of the ‘race card’ being used (i hate that term). I come from a country where we thankfully don’t have to deal with groups like the NRA or much gun related crime (a shooting makes national headlines) so i kind of forget how huge they are and what an influence they have. But now that you have mentioned it i am pretty sure that most of the malicious crap written about Trayvon and his family is probably coming from gun owners/NRA members (not all of course)….i guess it doesn’t look so good for them that trayvon was just a normal teenager and makes the argument to carry guns stronger if they can make out the victim to be a thug, gang member, delinquent, theief, druggie from a neglectful, greedy, oportunist family.

83. @ NLME

    “Clarification:

    “Did you read this* in that same link?”

    Heh – the comment about tattoos seemed out of nowhere. I’ve not read the article in a long time. I think the Zimmerman camp has done a lot of projecting and while I didn’t know he had tattoos, it doesn’t surprise me.

    On another related vein, much is made of Trayvon’s THC levels but the only people that I’ve ever encountered that have refused medical care for wounds, cuts, etc. bleeding are those who do not want to have their blood tested. It boggles the mind that he refused care and then went to the family doctor. The reason they didn’t want their blood tested is because of some type of illicit drug use. Suggestive theorizing but in the face of the verbiage that the Zimmerman camp spewed the refusal of medical treatment is just such a salient point IMO.

    • And I’ll add, Zimmerman went to the family doctor the next day to get clearance to return to work. Under those circumstances, I can see a family doctor fudging some details. I don’t think the doctor had any indication that his report would end up central to high profile murder case. I would look at the report side-eye until that doctor testifies under oath. At the same time, the doctor also has a vested interested to stick with his story of the report, also something to keep in mind.

      • I haven’t reviewed the whole report — it’s not available to the public yet, correct? — but his doctor is vague at best. E.g. Likely broken nose.

        The doctor would know he/she has a pretty good chance of ending up in court — their patient did admit to shooting another human being.

    • good point princss6, perhaps he was wary of a blood test (he sounded on drugs to me) and that is why he refused treatment through fear they may test him.

    • The evidence listing shows 2 buccal swabs from GZ. These are swabs from inside the cheeks, as we can see being taken on CSI etc to be used for matching up DNA.

      But they still have those swabs.

      Perhaps they could still be tested for drugs? not all drugs will show up on a saliva swab, and quantities could not be calculated, but SOME do show up. It would be interesting……

      • They could potentially still test him for drugs. There is a 90 day window that drugs are detected in a hair sample. I’m hoping that TMs family attorneys or someone was smart enough to request that. The longer they wait the smaller that window gets. But there is still a possibility that they could find out exactly what zimmerman was on

        http://www.homehealthtesting.com/drug_test_detection_times.php

        See the chart on this link

    • princss6,

      You continue to bring up some very valid points and observations. I’ve not read any articles, or anything in the latest 183 page dump, that indicates the confessed murderer ever told his doctor he had been in a scuffle with, or just murdered an unarmed teenager the night before.

      ER doctors have a tendency to be more clinical in their assessments of injuries. They ask questions that you feel have absolutely nothing to do with your reported symptoms. If he in fact had a broken nose, ER’s are more likely to take x-rays, cat scans, urinalysis, blood work, etc.

      They are also required by law to ask very specific questions if you are a suspected or known victim of a crime, and would have been very inclined to question him thoroughly about the nature of his injuries, especially if he’s being escorted by LE. I’m sure the confessed murderer knew this, and that’s why he went out of his way to reject any serious medical evaluations that night.

      • Didn’t the medical report indicate the family doctor was concerned about Zimmerman’s mental well-being after the shooting and suggested he see his psychologist? I’m going off of memory only.

        I also agree regarding Zimmerman’s refusal to visit the ER. Worth noting: If the responding officers and/or EMTs thought Zimmerman had something as “small” as a concussion, he would have been heading to the ER without the option to visit the Police Dept instead.

      • NLME,

        (page 3 of 13, page 37 of 183) THE MEDIA DUMP

        Ofc. Ayala reported to Det. Serino that THE CONFESSED MURDERER STATED HE PRODUCED A 9mm semi-automatic pistol DURING THE CONFRONTATION.

        Ofc. Timothy Smith stated he arrested him at gunpoint which confirms some witnesses statements that said they saw the confessed murderer’s hands up just before a police officer appeared.

        I wonder how the confessed murderer felt having a gun pointed at him. I have some reservations about of Ofc. Timothy Smith. He goes all out his way to CYA.

        (page 8 of 13, page 42 of 183) THE MEDIA DUMP

        Altamonte Family Practice reported an open wound on the scalp w/o mention of complications, and so did EMS who also only reported 1 scalp wound .

        So why does it appear to be dried blood coming from 2 different areas of the back of his head when the reports from the doctor and EMS both state there was only 1 open wound?

        ARTICLE S ABOUT GZ’S DOCTOR VISIT
        http://www.newser.com/story/146093/doc-zimmerman-had-black-eyes-busted-nose.html

        http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532

        T. G.

84. Another interesting factoid – Officer Mead was on the scene that night. He indicates in his report that he knew Zimmerman was Neighborhood watch. I also believe Off Mead did the initial canvass. Want to figure out how the witness tampering, IMO, it starts with Mead.

    • Mead did not interview ‘John.’ Ricardo Ayala did. In fact, John was the only witness Ayala took a statement from. Doing the canvas was not part of his job. So, why is the only witness who talked to the officer that WASN’T on the canvas assignment, the one on whom the whole self-defense thing hinges? Could be coincidence — maybe John came out of his unit to look at the dead body in his backyard, and Ayala was right there, having just turned over his futile attempts to revive Martin to another officer. But the weird thing is Ayala does not mention talking to witnesses or anything like that in his written section of the police report. Strange.

      • Interesting. Who is Mead?

85. TM & GZ, both had tatoos, and both may have had drug in their systems.
    In the case of TM, this is already known that he had pot.
    Now I find that GZ is on prescription drug and that these drugs may have side effects causing paranoia.

    Check it out:
    http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/05/23/242630/zimmerman-drug-paranoia/

86. Quoting from above: “But, this is different. The Sanford Police Department – so, individuals that should be highly skilled/trained with situations like this – should be embarrassed they were (originally) duped by a convincing man whose story didn’t even add up on the night of the shooting.”

    In regards to that, every LEO assumes that everyone is lying about something, which is a good assumption because it’s really true a lot of the time. Cops also get a good sense for when something is “hinky”, when the story doesn’t add up right.

    I think a lot of this “hinky radar” comes from experience. People who are lying are literally “shifty”, they shift their eyes away from yours, often in short darting glances.

    A person who is completely pulling a lie out of their ass will tend to look up and to their right. Note that the direction may depend on the person’s handedness, and is due to left brain vs. right brain processing.

    Add into the general hinky meter an increasing feeling of hinkiness when evidence and witness statements don’t line up.

    The fact that the investigators wanted to file charges and were over-ridden says to me that their hinky meters were telling them that there was a bunch of deep bullshit laying around in evidence.

    • I think their hinky meter could have gone off that night because Zimmerman seemed to come off, “cool as a cucumber.”

    • didn’t he pass a voice stress test at the station (basically a lie detector). But yeah he is cool as a cucumber and if he believes he was in the right then he would have no trouble passing.

      • I don’t understand what a voice stress test is but won’t prescription drugs have an effect on results?

    • Some people fall to pieces right away from any shock. Some don’t for days, weeks or months later. Look at the difference in the witnesses, a few were matter-of-fact about it even while it was going on, one fell to pieces and had to be comforted, on the phone, for 14 minutes.

      Once he had a few minutes to physically recover (eg regain his breath, adrenalin to go back to normal) he’d not have to be visibly shaken.

      But the blank look in the eyes could be a sign of being affected. (Also a good pose to adopt on purpose, to reduce “tells” like looking shifty when lying).

87. I’d like to see a map of the crime scene with positioning of the witness, abstracts of their statements, and the timing of what they witnessed. That would give us a clearer picture.

    The whole “wrestling” characterization paints a picture of GZ trying to detain TM, while TM is trying to escape from his attacker.

    We know from the glasses of lady that someone was running. We know another witness says the argument started farther away and got louder as it got closer. None of this fits “he cold cocked me at the T and beat me nearly to death”…

    I think maybe TM was by his house, GZ came up and pushed him attempting to tackle (as Dee Dee heard) and hold TM until police arrived. Here the initial shouting occurs. “Stop!” “Let me go! Get off me!” TM got up or pulled away, and ran towards the T. Zimmerman follows, and again grabs TM’s clothes. Perhaps he pulls TM down, and this is the wrestling people see.

    The whole time there is an argument that people hear. Has to be Zimmerman saying don’t move and Trayvon saying leave me alone. If anyone wants to imagine a different sentiment to the argument, go ahead and propose one – nothing else fits.

    Zimmerman’s face injury could also be an elbow to the face; that would be very likely if GZ is grabbing TMs hoodie, while TM Is trying to run away. TM might easily spin around with his elbow and catch GZ in the face.

    GZ might have been knocked to the pavement, scratching his head. Then GZ draws his gun. Grabs TM’s hoodie again, spins him around and the gun goes off. TM falls to the ground.

    If you just look at what the physical evidence of the calls, we know GZ saw and convicted a criminal. He called police who are on their way. He follows TM. An Argument occurs, then a struggle. Clear motive on the part o GZ the whole time – he wants to capture this kid for the cops!

    TM on the other hand, is freaked out, scared, and running away. No motive to attack a crazy, creepy stalker, until the stalker physically attacks him.

    • This should be coming within the relatively near future. More soon (yes, this is overly ambiguous)…

    • Yes, Toneli, this fits in neatly with the idea they both went down Twin Trees, NOT the inside path. TM loses GZ near the end cut-through, feels it’s safe to sit on his own porch talking to DD. GZ comes up the path from near the southern gate. TM challenges “why are you following me” and the argument/grabbing/chasing ensues back UP the internal path to quite near the T.

      Certainly just making a grab for the hoodie is enough of a physical assault, on top of the earlier following, to entitle TM to hit GZ in self defence. If the gun then becomes visible in any way, he is totally entitled to fight, trying to prevent it being used. GZ said he’d “forgotten” he had the gun until he noticed that TM had noticed it (not saying how, exactly) so GZ himself is saying there was a fight over the gun.

      Only he’s claiming it was after TM had knocked him down without provocation, because if he pulled the gun first, TM is entitled to Stand His Ground and that blows GZ’s use of it out of the water.

      Don’t forget somewhere between drawing the gun and the shot, he’s got full control of it and TM is begging for his life.

      • If they both originally ran down Twin Trees and not the inside path, Zimmerman’s vehicle would have to be parked closer/further to/from the clubhouse (“Shit, he’s running” at the 2:08 mark). This would also mean Zimmerman could have clearly seen house addresses to his south or directly behind him since he wouldn’t be directly by the cut through. And, then the timing of Trayvon starting AT the clubhouse and then walking towards his parked vehicle (:55-1:00+) is all whacked out as well.

        • Nevermind – we may have a new map coming!!! “Shit – he’s running” at 2:08 could still happen given where I’ve placed Zimmerman’s vehicle.

          But, instead of looking in his rear view mirror – there’s a change in his tone of an extending neck/face – Zimmerman would be looking over his left shoulder or mirrors at Trayvon walking/starting to run down Twin Trees. This also coordinates well with Zimmerman saying Trayvon is running towards to back entrance. But, again, I’m giving Zimmerman absolutely ZERO credibility with offering directions since he failed throughout the entire call.

          So, Trayvon starts running south on Twin Trees around 2:08 of Zimmerman’s 911 call. Zimmerman leaves his vehicle around 2:15, starts chasing Trayvon south on Twin Trees around 2:17, mentions that “He ran” just past the first gap between the buildings around 2:39 (Trayvon is just about to turn east on Twin Trees at that same time), and Zimmerman no longer has the unarmed teen in sight. Zimmerman slows his pace around 2:47 – well after being told to stop following Trayvon – and either continues walking or stands. You can clearly hear audible clicking, tapping, knocking, etc. noises starting around the 2:49 mark and Zimmerman’s 911 call which ends around 4:12.

          In the meantime, Trayvon is on his back porch catching his breath and talking to Dee Dee. Note: I assume he let Chad know he was home and that some creepy dude was chasing him but maybe not. As – or shortly after the 911 call ends – Zimmerman continues stalking, harassing, and preying upon his unarmed neighbor by proceeding east on Twin Trees instead of returning to his vehicle as instructed.

          While walking east on Twin Trees, Zimmerman spots Trayvon on his porch talking to Dee Dee and heads north towards the teen. In an attempt to protect Chad and/or not allow a stranger to somehow enter his house, Trayvon runs away from the porch towards the T to the north and the scuffle, wrestling match, etc. begins south of it.

          An armed Zimmerman doesn’t want to be seen by Police getting pinned down by an unarmed teen when he’s supposed to be playing the role of hero and pulls the trigger as police sirens can presumably be heard approaching the gated community.

          OMG – this is obviously worse for Zimmerman’s defense than my original final map. If y’all have been suggesting this chase route, my bad for not concentrating enough.

      • NLME: I think that this is an interesting assessment. I have been wondering if there is evidence somehow that he tried to make it home. That would be big, perhaps a key in the grass, the button being on the porch, etc. They never list the button in the victims belongings. I believe someone mentioned this before. Perhaps the other kid saw him talking outside and thought he was on his way in and thought no more of it. If talking on the porch was his usual habit, you wouldn’t think twice about it. It also exposed a deep prejudice regarding the SPD assertion that TM should have simply gone into the house, while GZ hunted him down. Why should he? TM had every right to be in that pathway.

      • Was Chad home waiting for TM?
        I looked thru the list of items belonging to TM found on the crime scene and I could not find any (house) key. I was wondering how he planned to go back home and whether he lost his keys.

        • Good call. If Chad wasn’t home, Trayvon could have been locked out (assuming there were no keys found at the scene). If Chad was home, Trayvon intelligently ran away so that there weren’t two potential victims of whatever the unidentified guy was doing.

          I wonder if a neighbor of Brandy Green’s heard anything. Thus, Brandy Green was able to say Trayvon was on her porch and then somebody chased him north to the T where he was shot. Hmmmmm

      • maybe chad saw that trayvon had returned home and was outside finishing his phone call to his girlie. Maybe he wasn’t too worried because he knew trayvon had made it home from the shop and was safe, so when he didn’t come in later assumed he’d gone off to meet who he was chatting to.

        • Good point — if Chad knew of any distress, he would have mentioned this to Tracy and Brandy and they would have questioned why Trayvon did not return home that night.

      • New map here…

        

      • San San B,

        Your comment: “They never list the button in the victims belongings. I believe someone mentioned this before.”

        If you go to (page 4 of 7, 82 or 183) THE MEDIA DUMP, you’ll see the photo button listed amongst the victims items included in the SPD’s “Evidence-Property” report as follows:

        (typed it exactly as it is worded in the dump)
        “One (1) red “711” brand name lighter, photo button, bag of skittles, and headphones.
        and collected from with in the victim’s pockets.
        DMS-11 (1) CARTRIDGE CASE

        The confessed murderer even mentions “the button” to the dispatcher in his “just too impeccable of a description” during the Non-emergency call.

        This gives me the strong impression the confessed murderer saw Trayvon earlier while it was still daylight.

        His description of Trayvon’s clothing, color of clothing and shoes, etc. is just too exact when you consider it’s dark and raining. It all gives the impression his actions were pre-meditated.

        T. G.

      • He had the gun in an inside pants holder. The Kel-Tec is tiny! (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_9x5cYKd3A#!)

        Here’s what the Kel-Tec looks like in an inner pants holster when worn: http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/CTone03/Gun%2520Things/104_6035.jpg

        Zimmerman was wearing both an untucked shirt AND that coat. So:

        (1) There is no freaking way Trayvon would have seen this gun unless Zimmerman had drawn the gun.

        (2) There is no freaking way that Zimmerman could have drawn this gun with another man sitting astride him. When you are sitting on someone whaling on them, you do not sit on their knees, you sit astride their waist. I do not know many males in a fight would would allow their opponent to go on a crotch fishing expedition, as Zimmerman would have had to do to get at his gun. If the guy under you appears to be going for your nuts, I’m pretty sure most guys will go for that hand to stop that motion.

      • I wanted to show two more concealed carry options for the Kel-Tec so people really understand how tiny this gun really is:

        http://journal.drfaulken.com/smartcarry-concealed-holster-review/

        

        Unless Zimmerman had the gun drawn and in his hand, I am not believing that Trayvon would have spotted it.

    • Thank you, Toneii, for inspiring this “final” map version 2 update from earlier today…

      

    • I’ve been an avid reader on this blog (so much so that it is flagged as a fave so i can jump right to it) and one thing I havent seen is the evidence mapped out. In looking at the pictures that were leaked and the evidence dump a few things stood out.

      http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-pictures-evidence-photos-released-in-the-shooting-death-of-trayvon-martin-20120517,0,6090406.photogallery

      Using these pictures

      1. TM didn’t have house keys so he could have very well kept moving if he wasnt able to get in the house and saw GZ coming towards him on his porch. If from a distance maybe he kept moving or took off. Which would have given GZ the idea that maybe he was trying to break in, and completely dismissing the fact that TM lived/was staying there.

      2. As mentioned by a previous poster the FRONT of GZs clothes were wet and soiled. Mainly his lower pant legs and boots, as well as his back. So maybe TM did get him on his back at some point, but the lower pant legs and boots being wet/grassy would indicate he was on top.

      3. the dried blood in the pictures showing the wounds on the back of GZs head (picture 14, picture 19, picture 23 which has been wiped away but you can still see the traces of blood along his jaw line leading to his beard) all of these running at an angle and NOT straight down would indicate that GZ was on top and looking down. If he was at the bottom for too long after these wounds occured or even standing straight up and looking forward then the blood would be running in an entirely different path.

      4. ANOTHER THING THAT SHOULD BE ADDED TO THE MAP – EVIDENCE!!!!! Keep in mind that I do believe that GZ followed him, and as someone who has had a couple people follow me (maybe I was just a paranoid young girl at the time afraid of being kidnapped) but you do take different paths when trying to get away or even avoid leading them to your home when you know you will be there alone). But if you look at the pictures and consider DeeDees statement that the phone just dropped they would have to have started at the T. I’ll attempt to break it down a bit for you and forgive me if its rushed since I am at work.

      Trayvons body was a distance from where he dropped his cell phone which would indicate that something happened to make him try to get away and just say forget the cell phone… In picture number 3 we can place his body somewhere between the two white fences in the middle of the grass/closer to the witnesses back door… And the cell phone near the walkway in front of the black covering on the first porch…. look at the picture number 7 is in daylight. Pay attention to that plastic covering in the grass… Picture 7 is similar to the night picture which shows trayvons body in picture 13. Flip through the pictures to number 55. Trayvons cell phone is near that same plastic covering in the grass also indicated as marker 7. This tells me that either he tried to get away and zimmerman grabbed him which started the fight, or the scuffle started where he dropped his phone and they wrestled a bit….

      I would like to know a definite distance of where the cell phone was from the body. But I guess we wont get those measurements until we get the full evidence…I would also like to know, as I’ve seen it mentioned before whether gz called Taeffe or another NWer to help him trap TM. That 2nd person showing up right after the shot is sort of strange especially if someone was RIGHT there and they aren’t even a witness to it. Seems suspicious. I think they were trying to corner him… And I also heard TWO shots when I listened to 911 tapes. Seems kind of strange that they assume he’d be the only NWer with a gun if they seem to be peas in a pod it that was Taeffe that showed up. Maybe he fired a warning shot and GZ did the fatal shot. That being said we wont know since in the reports the officer says they went over once with the metal detector, found nothing, changed the settings and found something and stopped searching… Their detectives and police officers SUCK!

      I do have a lot more to add (like i said i’ve been following this blog so i have a lot of ideas, opinions, and conclusions i’ve reached and just not decided to voice them) but being at work I have a couple things to take care of so I will be back later. But the pictures of the evidence do tell us a bit more if we can get that added in, that may narrow down our possible paths.

      • This was a great comment — thank you. I’ll review again and add to it when I get in front of a PC.

      • “4. ANOTHER THING THAT SHOULD BE ADDED TO THE MAP – EVIDENCE!!!!! Keep in mind that I do believe that GZ followed him, and as someone who has had a couple people follow me (maybe I was just a paranoid young girl at the time afraid of being kidnapped) but you do take different paths when trying to get away or even avoid leading them to your home when you know you will be there alone). ”

        Sometimes you take an alternate path just to confirm you are being followed and that you’re not just crazy/paranoid. Trayvon Martin did that and concluded prematurely that he’d “lost the guy” so he probably drew the conclusion that his first conclusion about what was occurring (instinct) was baseless. On the second round, his instinctual fear was confirmed, but too late.

    • 4-5 lb trigger pull pretty much excludes the gun firing by accident.

88. This!

    @Lonnie Star

    “GZ had no right to induce any such fears in anyone, not only because the law forbids it, but because his own rules should have forbade such conduct as well.”

    In a nutshell, this is the point. In a civil society, those who appoint themselves to “protect” a community have no right whatsoever to do so in a manner that is threatening. And this is lost I believe by the focus on other sensational story lines.

    If he was on NW, he was wrong. If he was on an errand, he was still wrong. His hostility towards Trayvon that night had no basis or foundation. His intent to harm and/or intimidate and infringe is clear throughout his 911 call and finally with his refusal to deescalate the situation by being forthcoming with a teenager that he had trailed and scared for several minutes. I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve trained my child to be wary of threats like Zimmerman presented that night. To not understand how hostile and threatening Zimmerman was that not, is to be in willful denial in my opinion.

    Imagine if he exhibited the same behavior towards a teen aged girl. No one! NO ONE would question her correct assessment that she should fear the person following her. Especially given the person following her was seen in a car! Are you serious?

    And at nighttime, Trayvon in unfamiliar area (layout and neighbors prolly unfamiliar to him), being followed by person in a car, tell me grave danger wouldn’t go through anyone’s head. And I think especially since I’m pretty sure, Zimmerman sat and watched Trayvon as he took cover from the rain under the awning. And if Trayvon noticed him at night in the heavy downpour, he was intrusive enough IMO. I’m rambling but it really incenses me that people want to discount Trayvon’s perceptions that night under those circumstances and pretend he should have just cozied up with a “creepy guy” who was relentless in pursuing him from car and foot!

    Zimmerman thought he was The Retreat’s private police force. He crossed the line and whatever the outcome of this case, folks had better start looking long and hard at issues. He was wrong and so fixed that nothing that night would dissuade him from paraphrasing not letting this asshole get away. A picture of Trayvon post-mortem with a tear running down his face, suggests what? He was in mortal fear of his life and was crying why he died. Now no one but the confessed killer and the first witness suggest that Trayvon was the aggressor. We’ve know for some time that the SPD tampered with witnesses that did not support their rush to judgement that night.

    Let’s say Trayvon did have the upper hand at one point. That one tear is proof to me that he lost that upper hand before he died. I don’t think he ever had the upper hand as wrestling to me connotes no one being dominant.

    Sorry to unload.

    • Go right ahead an unload. I’ve known for a long time that LEA’s like the FBI and sometimes even the local police, have people assigned to watch blogs and other net sites “of interest”, certainly prosecutors offices do, and we all know that political outfits of every stripe, monitor the blogisphere for ideas, clues and other errata. So, it can’t hurt to remind them all that there is an emotional/human side to all this. After all, these are the people they’re supposed to be keeping safe. If they want to keep their jobs, they’d better get a better handle on the “subversives” within their own ranks, who are ruining their credibility.

      The National Sheriff’s Association, already knew that Neighborhood Watch was a potent source of potential danger to the very communities they intended to serve. Yet, they failed to recognize that they needed to emphasize one more rule: If and when spotted to be “interested in a subject/suspect”, the NW’er should then immediately be required to identify themselves, and that failure to do so, will make everything else that follows a criminal act by the NW’er(s).

    • “Imagine if he exhibited the same behavior towards a teen aged girl. No one! NO ONE would question her correct assessment that she should fear the person following her. Especially given the person following her was seen in a car! Are you serious?”

      Excellent point.

      • I remember a program where a police dept. used extremely young looking police officers disguised as kids to ferret out criminals. It occurred to me that had this been one of those cases, we’d be witnessing something very much different than what we’re seeing now. eh?

89. @Lonnie Star

    “It seems there were. What say you all?”

    Why would the police only take one picture of his bloody nose and not the back of his head. You mean the “helpful” neighbor was more astute in what was important than the SPD officer?

    • Well, so far it certainly seems so, eh?

    • i’m not sure if anyone caught the fact that the pictures of his bloody head (i believe at the police station) the blood is running at an angle and not straight down. Some of which is running from the back of his head towards his face. That picture alone would indicate that zimmerman WAS on top since in order to get the blood in that angle you would have to be looking down! That’s one of the first things i noticed when I saw the pictures of the wounds on his head, well besides the fact that they weren’t gaping life threatening wounds.

      • Exactly! His shoes also point to the same looking down position Zimmerman had to be in.

90. Well lookie here:

    Zimmerman rode with cops – ripped police

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/22/2813681/zimmerman-rode-with-cops-ripped.html

    • See Update section – thank you!

      • Notice bandage on back of his head…but nothing covering the nose as the dad mentioned he was wearing some sort of mask? Wonder who his buddy is that’s lagging behind…they may want to find out what GZ said to him about that night. Looking forward to seeing additional evidence. I think those emails and texts will be very telling!

    • Wow! I had been avoiding that link because I’d seen another article about Zimmerman riding with the police. I had no idea there was a video on that page showing Zimmerman’s butterfly bandage 3 days after the murder as he walked freely through the police station. Wonder why he was there. Maybe another recorded statement? Maybe the next set of document dumps from the State will give us the recorded statement of 2/29/12, the date of the video. The “information flyers” were distributed within the community on 2/29/12 according to the current evidence dump.

      • I would guess he was going in for questioning. He didn’t seem phased at all. Now, neighbors said he had a bandage on his nose 2/27. Two days after that, no bandage on the nose? Why, when it would be easy to re-injure a broken nose? Further, why did he disregard the family docs order to see an ENT specialist? Wouldn’t you want to make sure your “likely closed nose fracture” was setting properly and not risk possible disfigurement square in the center of your face?

        My theory – Zimmerman knows a broken nose can be feigned without bandages, so why bother? Secondly, I believe the bandages on the back of his head are there to cover up just how minor the damage was three days later. His own family doctor only prescribed soap and water and no stitches. I hope the SPD had the wherewithal to take a look under the bandages and possibly snap a few pics.

        Finally, he bounded up those steps, like there was no problem. Signs of a life or death struggle three days ago – NON-EXISTENT other than the bandage. Where are the black eyes?

      • Anybody know the person Zimmerman’s bossing around in the police department / obnoxiously sized bandage video?

        So, the bald guy that quickly follows when Zimmerman waves his hand and presumably yells, “Come on,” “Hurry up,” “Let’s go,” etc.

        Please say that’s not a cop/investigator. Regardless, it sure does look like Zimmerman’s running the show around the Sanforfd PD. I wonder how different his stay was in April.

      • and back pain?

      • There were no stitches?? Didn’t Joe Oliver say he had something like eleven stitches??

    • Speaking of walking freely through the police station, how do police collect evidence from the apprehended person? I had been meaning to ask why was Zimmerman’s underwear not listed in evidence? It could be that he didn’t wear any, but I wonder if he was allowed to change without an officer present the same room and kept them on either hiding evidence or simply taking it home with him undiscovered.

      If he was merely escorted to a bathroom or something and the escorting officer was outside the door, that also gave Zimmerman an opportunity to get rid of something — maybe whatever he was searching for on the ground right after the murder.

    • Interesting.

      Not necessarily true, the topic of the meeting being how terrible the police were being, Mr Hero would have to have some “inside info”.

      I am sure some sloppy and lazy police exist. I can see them initiating a recruit into the secret hiding locations, but less likely they’d boast of them to a ride-along. The long-gun statement I’d believe, every sensible person tries to avoid additional paperwork.

      This meeting was just after the case where he “handed out” flyers The beaten-up man’s lawyer says in this article ““They wanted to use Sherman to get Justin. Nobody really cared about Sherman. They cared about a little rich boy getting everything he wants..” (rich boy being the son of an officer).

      This incident is what led to the resignation of the then police chief, opening the way for the promotion of Lee who was chief at the time of the TM shooting.

      ………….

      We all know people like this. No matter what comes up, they are experts because of some job, family connection or the same thing happened to them, NOT PREVIOUSLY REVEALED. Bring up something else, they’ve worked in that, too. A third thing, they’re experts on because their Dad did it etc .

      In other words, they believe personal experience is more accurate than any amount of expert knowledge, and will CLAIM personal experience (unprovable) to be “right”.

      This attitude probably contributes to his feeling that he’ll be judged on what he says, rather than on external evidence. “External” to some extent doesn’t exist for him.

      • I’m laughing at work because you have described that type to a “T”. He is an opportunist, know-it-all that thought he knew more about everything than everyone else. The boy who cried Wolf essentially.

        I would bet that his beef wasn’t even with Collison but with the fact that the SPD had not hired him as a cop. There is always something weird about tagger-ons and most trained LEO know to be wary of those who want to do their jobs and take the law in their own hands.

        Short version of Zimm’s comments – Nothing happened like on “Cops” when I went on ride-along!!! Almost like a kid.

        But his involvement with the NW program restored his faith in the SPD as per his emails. Probably because they enabled his nosy-body quasi-police state at The Retreats.

      • he seems to think he is pretty important. Could this new faith in the SPD be because he was in a position to be sort of calling the shots. He does the ground work then calls in his backup so to speak, he probably felt very important having the cops come running every time he picked up the phone, almost like they were working for him or something. Of course this is all speculation but he is a strange character and judging his demeanor and tone of voice, and attempts to contact the prosecutor, his vocalising his grievences about the police, ride alongs, history of bullying and assault etc i take him to be an entitled self important snot faced prat who thinks he is above the rest of us

91. @riisey said

    “hope Zimmerman is proud of himself”

    He could care less. He did feature graffiti painted on the Ohio State black cultural center on his website. That graffiti said “Long live Zimmerman.” But goodness forbid you say he has some real questionable issues around race. How does someone take racist graffiti targeting the small AA community at Ohio State, post it on their website, but then scream…but I’m not a racist.

    • Ugh – another thing I hadn’t seen yet. Thank you, again!

      http://gawker.com/5900505/

92. I just want to say thank you, NLME so much for this blog!!! This incident was so tragic and it has affected me deeply. Just knowing that other people care about this and justice, restores my faith in community.

    • I truly appreciate this comment. Thank you — it means a lot.

93. I am a long time reader of your George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin blog postings but a 1st time commenter. These postings are fantastic and should be nominated for a webby!

    • I’ve heard/paid attention to Webby Awards in the past but I’m not sure how they work or what qualifies for one. Regardless, thank you!

    • I second that. This is the best and most civil blog on this matter that I have come across.

      • DITTO!

        • Thank you, thank you!

      • +1

        • +1! I almost forgot about google+ until that comment. Hahah

94. I’ve been thinking a little more about the last words Zimmerman claims Trayvon Martin said. “Okay, you got it.” (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/19/new-account-zimmerman-told-cops-trayvon-s-last-words-were-okay-you-got-it.html),

    If this is true, wouldn’t it make more sense that it was said BEFORE the shot, not afterwards?

    @ NLME – nice new map showing Zimmerman’s alternate path. It’s definitely better than the one I sent. My map was only showing the entry points/route that George Zimmerman could have taken w/o details of calls. I think Trayvon Martin used the back pathway to escape the stalker in the car, but George Zimmerman knew where it would lead — the back entrance, so he followed along Twin Trees (or Retreat View). In any event, your new map made me revisit some of the old news reports again. Here’s a piece from April 19, but a reread takes on new meaning now that we have more details.

    “As has been reported, Zimmerman told police officials that he lost sight of Martin and went around a townhouse to see where he was. Then he claimed Martin confronted him and punched him, knocking him down.”

    • Crap – you sent a map? Did I respond? If not, I apologize — I either missed it or the email got caught up in spam.

      If I never responded, do you want to send it again? I’ll pay attention to my inbox – including spam – for the next few hours.

      If I did respond, it’s definitely like me to forget doing so.

      • Yours is better and indicates all the timing info. Mine was just a plain ole map indicating the cut-through points if Zimmerman had walked straight down Twin Trees (could have just as easily been Retreat View Circle). I only sent it because its often difficult to describe in words what a picture can do so easily.

        We’ve all managed to figure out what each other has been saying now, so no worries. Totally understand. Blogging is a whole lotta, lotta work!

        Keep it up. I can’t stress enough how I found your blog a godsend of good info!

    • “As has been reported, Zimmerman told police officials that he lost sight of Martin and went around a townhouse to see where he was. Then he claimed Martin confronted him and punched him, knocking him down.”

      This comment aligns well with Toneii’s scenario. GZ just omits he was the one who initiated the confrontation. Partial truths.

      • I need to find Toneii’s comment ASAP…it’s what aussie mentioned this morning as well.

95. Nice new map, NLME.

    The Twin Trees route is the most obvious to support GZ’s comment “He’s heading for the back gate.”

    The timing works out well. There’s a continuous flow to “the chase.” With the previous scenario, it required both GZ and TM to jog/run for a bit, then inexplicably loiter in place for a over a minute.

    • Thank you…

      I didn’t mind ignoring Zimmerman’s back entrance comment – he was an idiot the entire call – but the more I thought about Brandy Green saying Trayvon was just sitting on her porch and then he was chased/killed up the path by someone, the more I wondered how she could think/say this.

      I originally thought maybe Trayvon dropped his hoodie or something else off at home (?) and went back up the path to see if Zimmerman was still stalking him. I suspected when Zimmerman continued down the path instead of returning to his vehicle, the confrontation ensued and the deadly shot was fired.

      But, the evidence dump came and Trayvon was indeed wearing his hoodie at the time of the shooting while most of his items – there’s no mention of the pin? – were found near the shooting scene.

      Once “John” started coming clean by saying two voices were coming up the path towards him (and Trayvon wasn’t doing MMA moves on Zimmerman), I really started wondering how a chase heading north towards his house/the shooting scene could have happened.

      It took aussie saying “NOT (all caps) the inside path” for my mind to start racing this morning.

      Again, my bad if this map and chase route has been previously suggested. It sounds like they have. And, I do remember saying in the past that Zimmerman’s back gate description didn’t mean much since he was so inconsistent/worked up during the entire call.

      Well, that back entrance observation will likely cost him 20.5+ years behind bars (even though he blew his Stand Your Ground and/or self defense case in the original “final” map as well).

      • Actually the button is mentioned as being collected from Martin’s pockets on p. 58:
        “One (1) red “711” brand name lighter, photo button, bag of skittles, and headphones. and collected from with in the victim’s pockets.”

        Why would the can of iced tea be in the front pocket of his hoodie (removed during CPR), and the skittles be in his pocket, when he had been given them in a plastic bag @ 7-11?

        I think it was a plastic bag… if paper in the rain, maybe it makes more sense. Or maybe he was using the plastic bag to protect his cell phone from the rain?

        • WTF?!? Missed that (thank you!) but how’d that button end up in his pocket from being worn on his chest 30ish minutes earlier. Man there is something weird going on, right?

          • Yeah, and his headphones wind up in his pocket too! Was it a headphone he was using with the cell? I thought it was a bluetooth?

      • Button is weird… not sure if there is an interesting explanation for the button, or if it was misclassification.

        But I’m going to focus on the bag for a moment. It looks like a small plastic bag, maybe broken, is at marker #2 in photo #15.

        At photo # 68, you can see the position relative to the back porches. Can anyone tell how far down the path this is from the bench or other items?

        If marker #2 is the 7-11 bag (it looks like it based on the 7-11 video), how did it break (during the initial scuffle?), then was there a pause in their altercation (maybe it seemed to end for a bit?) for Trayvon to put the contents of the broken bag into his pockets?

        I can’t get this to add up…

      • … Did Martin swing the bag at Zimmerman, and the iced tea can did the damage to Zimmerman’s nose?

      • In any case, if the bag of 7-11 items were with him up near the ‘T’, I’m less certain Martin actually stopped on his back porch. Seems he would have left the bag there if he stopped off there, then felt he had to get away from Zimmerman.

        I think your map is correct that Martin went down Twin Trees, but then I think he may have turned into the cut through between the houses just before the last set of town houses — the quickest route back home.

        But then he had to decide whether to go to his porch, or hide, or turn back up the center lane to go away from his house with only had Chad there.

        I think Martin almost made it to his porch, but didn’t actually pass or stop there.

        • There’s something that caused Brandy Green to say Trayvon was just sitting on the back porch and then someone shot him up by the T.

          • Could be that TM always does something, that she has to later undo, like moving a chair or something on the porch, maybe that’s where he kept the key? If so, then he had to reach the back porch if he later had the key on him.
            So she could be addressing some detail like that.

            If he did get to the back porch, then the question is, why did he go back down away from the house? If GZ showed up there, he wouldn’t have time to put the key in the lock, he’d be scared witless and would run.

            Remember, GZ says that he lied to TM about following him, way back by the gate, when TM walked past him in his car.

            At first glance, since the sign at the gate says “neighborhood watch program”, you would think, if being followed, that perhaps this was NW. It could also be an undercover policeman, I’m sure TM is aware of that possibility. So, he goes over and GZ rolls the window down. TM asks “why are you following me?” Now, if it was undercover, you’d expect the answer to be “police”. If it’s NW, you’d expect them to say so as well. But, if it’s some ill intended, potentially dangerous person, you’d expect them to either give no answer or lie!

            TM got a lie, so that excludes undercover police, and it excludes NW, so what’s left? GZ purposely incited TM’s fear levels to rise extraordinarily! So, TM decides not to let on that he’s fearful, he acts nonchalant as long as his racing mind will let him, then he runs!

            Where does he run? Does he run all the way home? Get met by, or see some stranger lurking about and turn back? Does he get on the porch and retrieve the house key, then hear or see someone coming or nearby and get scared away? These are things that I’m looking for answers to.

            Perhaps, if we list all the activities witnessed in order, we might see that some witnesses are seeing the same thing, but from a different angle. Then we can look at the time gaps and try to figure out what could have been accomplished in those gaps, from the last known positions of the actors.

        • “Seems he would have left the bag there if he stopped off there.”

          Missed this. Unless he was spooked by the creep following him again – this time coming from the south – and instinctively took off running as efficiently as possible with items/bag still in hand.

          • I think somewhere they say that he had the skittles in his pocket and the iced tea in the bag. Then later he put the iced tea in his hoodie pocket. You can do that if the pocket is large enough, but usually the can has a precarious perch there, likely to fall out if you get vigorous, like running, falling or wrestling.
            But in the end, the report says it was in his hoodie pocket. I don’t yet know what to make of it.

      • If the button was in his pocket, maybe Zimmerman pulled/knocked it off Martin’s sweatshirt during their initial pushing/altercation. TM hits him in the nose with the bag/iced tea can. There is yelling at each other during all of this. Zimmerman is dazed momentarily, and TM figures it’s over, putting everything back in his pockets (iced tea can, skittles, and button).

        But it wasn’t over. Zimmerman is mad about the hit,and goes to take down TM. TM flips him and tries to pin Zimmerman down. Zimmerman now has taken a hit to the nose, and is being mostly pinned in this wrestling match. And he’s getting madder.

        Maybe that’s how the fighting starts and escalates, and leads into the cries for help and the moment “John” sees them.

      • NLME said:
        “There’s something that caused Brandy Green to say he was just sitting on the back porch and then someone shot him up by the T.”

        I could be wrong of course… but are there any witnesses on the list that are unaccounted for? That would have seen him there? They would definitely want a witness of that, and I would have thought the family would have let that be definitively known early on, because it would be one of the biggest blows to Zimmerman’s case.

        It’s possible it’s just her sense or guess, no?

        • My guess is the family,
          their lawyers, and the prosecution are going to let the Zimmerman crew do as much talking as they want and then drop a bombshell.

          You’re correct — only 50% of the evidence has been released. The other 50% – including witness statements from those that didn’t make 911 calls? – is to eventually come.

      • About the bag……

        I thought he might have ditched that on the earlier walk, so he could put his hands in his pockets and out of the rain. There was a plastic shopping bag brought by an Asian male resident, when ambulance asked for some plastic wrap. I thought that might be the one in the evidence.

        BUT WOW it makes so much more sense that he TOOK A SWING with it.

        So okay now it goes like this…

        a) at or near porch: “Why are you following me”…. bit of “discussion”
        b) TM walks away (north), GZ follows, says something threatening and/or makes a grab.
        c) TM swings around and takes a swing with the BAG.
        d) GZ gets hit on nose (no injury on TMs hands, right?) slips over backwards in damp grass
        e) TM picks up his shopping which fell from the bag… after all he’s suffered for that snack there’s no way he’s leaving it behind….decides to go north and back around to the FRONT of the house
        f) GZ gets up MAD and chases again, may or may not grab again, but exposes or reaches for the gun
        g) TM sees the gun, starts to fight for his life (but he’s pocketed his only weapon, the tea-in-bag cosh) and starts screaming HELP
        h) GZ gets control of the gun, TM starts pleading, help, don’t, please……

        All that shouting is going to bring an audience.

        They mustn’t see GZ being a fool and a failure..

        Dead men don’t talk.

        Fade to black.

        • I didn’t find anything remarkable with the bag at first glance – I was on my phone – but, I’ll bite and take another look. The odds of my plastic shopping bag making it home from a local convenience store without being roughed up a little bit – especially if I stuff it in my pockets so that my hands are free to mess around on my phone – are slim.

        • The plastic bag is south of the T near the shooting scene. I don’t see anything abnormal other than a weathered bag. Crime scene pic #68 shows its location with a marker that night and #77 shows the location without a marker during the day.

          http://www.wtsp.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=255685

          Bench on the left porch – Bush in between the porches – Mini grill on the right porch.

          I need to stop reviewing things on my phone — did anybody else notice what could definitely be Zimmerman’s parked vehicle in crime scene pic #91?

          

      • Ok, Ok, see this is getting good! With our collective ‘logical’ thinking we’ll get this case solved before it goes to court! Lol! Few posts back I bought up the fact that the can of tea was in his pocket but had only come out during CPR, and that the tan bag that he was given at 7-11 was included in evidence dump. After I reviewed full screen of 7-11 video it was shown that he placed the candy in his hoodie pocket…but tea was in the bag.

        Someone else responded that the bag found at scene could very well have been one that the neighbor brought out when the officer requested one to cover the wound, and someone else offered that perhaps Trayvon ditched bag on his walk back and then placed the tea in his pocket. My gut feeling is that didn’t happen, and he still had the tea with him in the bag. Inv. Serino states in his report that when he ‘inquired’ about the tea laying on the ground, he was told it came out during CPR.

      • How/when did the button end up in his pocket? Remember, GZ tells dispatch that he’s wearing one and it’s clearly visible in 7-11 video. Did it come off during initial scuffle Sproutlette has described, and he placed it in his pocket after picking them up?

        • Yeah – I don’t get why the button wasn’t still attached to the hoodie. I’m not sure if this is significant at all and the pin definitely could have come off during any scuffle that Zimmerman and Martin had that night but…

          After apparently falling from the hoodie, why wasn’t its location submitted as evidence?

          Who stuffed the pin in Trayvon’s pocket?

          Why?

      • All of the evidence had been tampered with by GZ. It goes back to what a previous poster said from the two female roommates statement.

        Jim Says:

        May 21, 2012 at 6:55 am
        I believe when Mary Cutcher and her roommate Selma Mora Lamilla first got outside and saw GZ, what they saw was GZ frisking TM,disparately looking for a gun, a knife, any kind of weapon he could say TM threatened him with.

        Maybe TM adjusted the tea in his pocket and GZ thought he was armed so he pulled his gun, leading to altercation, and the screams for help before the shot(s – I’m adding an s because i hear 2)… Maybe he thought TM had stolen something and emptied his pockets to find the stolen goods and only found the skittles, thought something significant was in the bag and after realizing it was nothing, placed the tea in back in his pocket and tossed the bag in a rush to search for something more meaningful. In frisking him he could have popped the button right off and stuffed it in his pocket thinking nobody would ever know the difference. He very well could have been searching for the weapon that in his mind the “suspected criminal” should have had on him and that’s why Mary and Selma saw that scene, and why the bag was out of his pocket and the button was inside his pocket.

96. I honestly don’t think Brandy meant anything by that comment. How could she have known that Trayvon was on his back porch? Wouldn’t DeeDee have said Tray was on the back porch? How would GZ know that Trayvon was on his way back home and on the back porch?

    • Because Zimmerman could see Trayvon – assuming the streets were somewhat lit – head south and then east on Twin Trees towards the back entrance.

      As he followed Trayvon’s path, Zimmerman spotted the unarmed teenager on his own back porch and the rest – a confrontation, chase, wrestling match, and then fatal shot – is history.

      I’m pretty sure Brandy wouldn’t have mistakingly said Trayvon was on the back porch before he was chased up the corridor and then shot by someone. The next evidence dump – if the remaining stuff even gets released to the media/public – could be further damning to Zimmerman’s case.

    • Could she also be commenting that prior to them leaving for dinner that he’d been sitting on the back porch before heading to the store?

      • Could be something he always does when he leaves and again when he comes back. Like for example a key to the back door. He’s been admonished to be sure not to carry it with him, because his father or Brandy or family may need it.

        So, he’d go out the door, get the key and lock it, put the key back.
        Go to the store, come back, get the key, open the door then put
        the key back and go inside.

        So, if the key is with him when he’s found dead, then he made it to the back porch. Something like that, that she would know but we wouldn’t.

        • Exactly!

          I just have a feeling there’s something that Brandy knew given everything else she said in a frantic 14 seconds has been confirmed (or all but confirmed).

          • A long time ago I had a few friends who had keys to my place. I could tell which one of them had been there, by what had been done. ex: Orange juice low it was Bill, Tea pot warm it was Gina, tv on it was John. Everyone brings their habits with them wherever they go.

            • Hahaha

97. Was GZ following/watching Tray since he had left Brandy’s house? I read somewhere that he was.I’m having trouble finding the article because I am on a mobile device.

    • Zimmerman supposedly had errands to run at Target – don’t take that as a fact since I can’t find a link now either – and could have spotted Trayvon going to/coming back from 7/11 since the stores share the same route.

    • “He may have been about to go on an errand to Target, as he later told his family, but his commitment to vigilance kicked in.”

      Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us/trayvon-martin-shooting-prompts-a-review-of-ideals.html?pagewanted=all

    • If he’d seen him leaving the house, he’d not have waited an hour to go chasing him, surely?

      I didn’t see the Brandy Green video originally, just read the text. The way they had so many things wrong in that story, I ignored the bit about her saying he was on the porch.

      This does not have to be a statement of fact based on evidence, and the “sitting on porch” does not have to mean “1 minute before the shot”.

      Maybe some of us have heard of the sudden death of someone we’d spoken to on their last day. The feeling is “he looked fine, one minute I’m talking to him, next thing he’s dead? I don’t believe it….” type of feeling. She may have meant it that way, one minute he’s on the porch (when she leaves to go out for dinner) next thing he’s shot dead (as in NEXT THING SHE HEARS OF) not as in 1 min 56 secs later.

      I don’t think TM told Chad anything; he was planning to finish the call and then go in, in time for the game. IF he heard voices at all, that may have led him to think oh he’s gone off with one of the cousins/friends around here. He’d have been asleep by the time the parents got back in.

      • Brandy seems emotional and distraught but very straight to the point and matter of fact…

        “He didn’t know anybody here…he just came out here.” (confirmed)
        “He was bored.”
        “So he walked to the store.” (confirmed)
        “He was on his way back home.” (confirmed)
        “I live down here.” (confirmed)
        “He was sitting out on the porch.”
        “This man had killed him” while she’s standing near the shooting scene. (confirmed)

        So, in 14 seconds, Brandy fires off 7 statements and 5 of those have been confirmed so far. Statement #6 – “He was sitting on the porch” – is the proverbial nail in Zimmerman’s coffin. I’m guessing we’ll know more soon.

    • HAS ANYONE COME ACROSS THE VIDEO FROM THE TWIN LAKES SECURITY CAMERAS?!?!?! This may be what GZs attorneys are trying to keep sealed. Why release the 7-11 tapes but not the survailance tapes that MEAN SOMETHING? Why say you want them sealed because it may create more tension and uproar in the community? Because maybe the front entrance security cameras show GZ following TM, maybe they also show GZ with his gun already out which would definately cause TM to run…. Maybe the back entrance cameras caught TM circle around the first row of townhomes and turn between the townhomes to go home to the back porch (which would go along with your new map)!!! I think those tapes would be very beneficial. I know several gated communities that have NUMEROUS survailance cameras throughout the community not just at the entry ways. I wonder if this may be the case here too.

      • I had asked about clubhouse security tapes and a commenter mentioned nothing of value was shown. I’m not sure if that’s the case or if the evidence hasn’t been released yet.

        At the least, I’d like to see the time responding officers – with their flashing lights – arrived at the scene and the tape should show this.

        • Could be the FBI grabbed the tapes to work with them? If so, then they wouldn’t be part of the evidence dump yet, since the SP doesn’t have them, they could not yet be part of the discovery.

      • I am hoping so. Why haven’t they been released by the media? They haven’t figured out how to spin in Zimmerman’s favor to push some new funding into the O’mara/Zimmerman fundraising site.

98. We don’t know how that story was edited.

    But in any case witnesses (no, people in general) tend to interrupt themselves, hop back and forth between lines of thought, especially if talking while walking then having to show spots.

    The first 4 statements are consecutive in time-line.
    ” I live down here” is a diversion from time-line ( waving towards her home)

    “He was sitting out on the porch.” (unspoken “when I last saw him”, no evidence it follows in the time-line from the ” on his way home”)… actually on the TAPE it says “livin’ down there… AND…he was sitting…..”

    “This man had killed him” (pointing at the area). Strange using the past perfect tense. I tell you “this man killed him right about here”. You go tell someone else, “Aussie told me this man HAD killed him right here”

    YEP darn it! the transcript I read left out a LOT. She says “and my man shows up I says are you serious?” before saying he said this man had killed him…..

    So no conspiracy here. No Chad secretly saw him on the porch and didn’t tell anyone. No Chad in white shirt helping chas poor GZ up the path.

    Brandy Green is saying he was on the porch when she went out.

    Now it is only US saying he MAY have been on or near the porch when GZ saw him again (fits neatly with DeeDee, too). All the more reason for GZ to be SUSPICIOUS, what’s he doing on that porch? we all know burglars finish off a chat before breaking in.

    • Was it edited? I see 14 straight seconds of unedited footage. In sequential order, Brandy says…

      “He didn’t know anybody here…he just came out here.” (confirmed)
      “He was bored.” (who knows but I’m sure Trayvon expressed being bored…it was a rainy Sunday and the NBA All-Star Game hadn’t started yet)
      “So he walked to the store.” (confirmed)
      “He was on his way back home.” (confirmed)
      “I live down here.” (confirmed)
      “He was sitting out on the porch.” (The next 20.5+ years of George’s life hinge on this statement and I assume there’s some evidence to back up her claim)
      “This man had killed him” while she’s standing near the shooting scene. (confirmed)

    • Aussie’s pretty much right, NLME. Brandy Green’s statements are NOT in chronological order. “I’m pretty sure Brandy wouldn’t have mistakingly said Trayvon was on the back porch before he was chased up the corridor and then shot by someone.” You’re right. She didn’t say that AT ALL. Listen to the 911 calls and you hear exactly the same thing as the witnesses tell the operators what happened just before they called. They use present tense instead of past tense. They jump around in chronology. I’ve never really thought about this before, but the phenomenon is so consistent in this case I’m realizing that this is just how people talk when they are under stress.

      Ms. Green is not giving testimony as to what happened when. She is expressing her incredulity at Trayvon’s death as a whole: “ARE YOU SERIOUS?”

      “He was sitting on the porch,” most likely has the same temporal reference as “I live down here,” which it immediately follows. That is, it probably doesn’t even mean ‘Trayvon was sitting on the porch when I went out,’ but more like, ‘He was just here and now he’s DEAD.” An expression of the awful contrast, the shock. As far as what I take Green’s meaning to be, it doesn’t matter whether Martin was on the porch when she left to go out, or whether he was on the porch earlier that afternoon, or whether he was on the porch the day before. Her words establish a general condition, not a time specific one. ‘I live here. I belong here. I should be safe here. Trayvon was with me. He belonged here. He thought he was safe here. He could just chill on my porch. And now you tell me somebody shot him to death on the other end of that sidewalk? It doesn’t make any sense!”

      Besides, if Chad Green had actually seen Trayvon on the porch circa 7:13 and later reported that to his mother, I’m pretty sure there would be more than that one ambiguous Fox interview clip supporting it. I think that would have yielded multiple statements from Benjamin Crump, Natalie Jackson, et al., and been a point of emphasis.

      That said, I still think the general premise of your reconstruction is correct: • GZ pursued TM to the South
      • After TM eluded GZ, Z continued looking around in a manner that took him further South
      • Thus when GZ re-encountered TM, Martin was to Zimmerman’s North
      • Martin moved AWAY from Zimmerman, taking him closer to the “T” and Zimmerman followed.

99. NOTICE TO PROSECUTORS READING THIS BLOG (we know you are)

    please get GZ’s buccal swabs tested for DRUGS

    please get the tan plastic bag tested for TM’s fingerprints AND GZ’s DNA

    If GZ’s vehicle is NOT a Honda, get the Honda keys and flashlight (a) tested for prints and DNA and (b) identified by Honda so you can find the vehicle it belongs to, then interview that person.

    • I don’t think those would be GZ’s keys. In the recording of his call, there was a dinging sound when he opened the car door. Probably this indicated he left the key in the ignition.

      • at the bond hearing i think they mentioned he had two flashlights, a larger one and a small one on the key chain so i think it must be his

    • If they aren’t…they should be! it’s some really good thoughts here!

      • Jo
        “..i think they mentioned he had two flashlights,..”

        I think they may have just assumed so.. Like the police statement referring to “frantic screams” for help by “Zimmerman” — just an assumption stated as bald fact (based on his story).

        They find 2 flashlights and assume they’re both his. One was attached to a CAR KEY while they didn’t look for a car, assuming he was on foot. Some people carry all their keys on one big bunch (house, office, car, mailbox etc). Those who carry the car keys separate only take them if they are using the car.

        Even on foot he’d not have needed that small flashlight – he had the big one. That’s why I’m thinking it’s more likely someone else’s. Someone who grabbed his closest/only flashlight which just happened to be attached to a key. Then dropped it to use a phone camera, or before the cops asked about it…….

100. Yep, NLME, there are TWO vehicles in

     http://www.wtsp.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=255685

     at image 91.

     Bit far to see clearly, magnified x2 is ok, bigger than gets too pixillated.

     At left, peeking out from behind the corner house, is the front of a white truck. I think this is the one we’ve seen on one of the TV news clips from the scene, on the day.

     Then straight ahead, to the right of the central doggie-doo bin, a few houses up, is the rear of another white car, looks too boxy to be a sedan. This may be roughly the position Taaffe is indicating as where TM “circled his car”.

     • The white truck right at the curve of TTL isn’t GZ’s. It’s virtually on all pictures taken there. That pick up truck is so constantly on that spot that even googlemap caught it. It must belong to either Jeremy Weinberg at 1211 TTL or Johnathan Good at 1221 TTL (the two nearest houses)

     • It was not wet in Sanford on 2/27. The daylight pictures of the crime scene in the evidence dump could not have been taken until several days later. Besides, Shellie Zimmerman retrieved the truck after learning that GZ was going to be down at the SPD for awhile, so even by the time daylight came on the next day, it was gone.

101. While scraping the other board for links, I came up with this DOOZY of a clip:

     BOMBSHELL LINK [STILL WORKING PLEASE READ]

     For example, he says the screams were his, however we now know they were not. He accuses

     Trayvon of starring at him, coming towards him, hands in waist, etc. which are the very

     things the confessed murderer was doing.

     http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

     Note (summary): At this link the Father Tracy explains what the Police told him, about what Zimmerman said. Zimmerman then claimed that TM had approached his car, he rolled down the window. TM then asked why GZ was following him, GZ DENIED HE WAS FOLLOWING TM, then rolls up the window. When TM walks on, GZ then gets out of the car and continues to follow TM.

     They’d better hope that this police officer can’t back up this claim he makes.
     GZ has to hope that this statement was never made by him, or that it wasn’t recorded.

     What it says is that GZ not only refused to identify himself and/or explain his actions when confronted and asked pointedly to explain, George Zimmerman lied to the person he was soon to victimize with his gun!

     • Lonnie Starr,

       I even posted that theory to this very blog back in April 2012. Everything the confessed murderer accuses Trayvon of doing, he actually does. He knows the possibility exist that witnesses heard screams and yells, so he claims them as his own. He is the one who tries to muzzle Trayvon’s screams and yells for help, although he states it as being the other way around.

       And Ofc. Timothy Smith seems to write that in, as well as the bloody nose stuff, as an afterthought in his narrative. This was Ofc. Smith’s third encounter with the confessed murderer. Ofc. Smith had responded to two previous calls to Retreat, made by the confessed murderer.

       And besides, his call to the NON-EMERGENCY police line, does not sound as though he’s concerned about his safety. He sounds rather casual until the dispatcher starts asking for his address and asking if he lived in the area. He actually sounds as though he’s telling the dispatcher someone is flirting with him, i.e. starring at me, coming towards me, etc. to which the dispatcher responds in a very non-chalant manner.

       Realizing this, the confessed murderer decided to do what he knows without a doubt will get the dispatcher’s attention. He ups the ante by saying, “Now he’s got his hands in in waistband”. We all know those are code words to imply someone has a gun. Unbeknowst to the dispatcher, he was the somebody who had a gun.

       If you go back and listen to the tape of the confessed murderer’s call, you will notice the sounds of him loading his gun. You can clearly hear what appears to be the sounds of him sliding the clip into the chamber.

       He’s already shown in the bond hearing that he’ll lie and say he can’t remember anything he told the police. Just like he lied about not having any idea about Trayvon’s age, being indigent, or not being able to remember if he told Sonner and Uhrig, or the police, to apologize to Trayvon’s family.

       Oh well, I guess O’Mara is preparing to play the crazy card on this one, although it still won’t keep him out of prison.

       T.G.

     • GZ was on the phone when TM walked past. We didn’t hear anything about the window being rolled down with some conversation. I don’t think that happened. How many hands away is that report when we have the recording of Z’s call?

     • Lonnie Starr,

       I’ve read that story you posted a link for over and over again since it was first reported. I still can’t help but wonder why no one is questioning the physical state this child was found in besides being shot and found faced down with his hands beneath him.

       Something else that’s not been discussed much is the crime scene photo of Trayvon’s body that was shown to his father. His father described it as follows:

       It was Trayvon, dead at the scene – his eyes rolled back, a tear on his cheek, saliva coming from his mouth. “From that point, our nightmare,” Martin said.

       Now what could possibly leave a child in such state? What could be the causes?

       The only conclusions I could come to based on the evidence available is smothering or being in a state of high anxiety or panic at the time of death.

       http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

       T.G.

102. This site has a lot of discussion on various factors in this case. One thing that may explain why TM didn’t consume the watermelon drink and the skittles during his long walk home is that he had the ingredients for lean. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/24/update-26-part-2-trayvon-martin-shooting-a-year-of-drug-use-culminates-in-predictable-violence/

     • [As politely as possible but] You’re ridiculous.

       Even if Trayvon was hopped up on [insert whatever drug name you want], this didn’t make Zimmerman stalk, harass, prey upon, and shoot his unarmed neighbor.

       • It may, however, explain a little more about TM and why he went to the store. It also might explain TM’s behavior and how he was able to pummel GZ. I’m sorry I am ridiculous. No one has called me that before.

         • Pummel? Some abrasions that required soapy water and a likely broken nose (that didn’t get fully diagnosed or treated) aren’t the result of a pummeling.

           As mentioned, insert whatever drug you want — even go all the way racist and say Trayvon was on crack — and it doesn’t change the fact that Zimmerman stalked, harassed, preyed upon, and eventually killed his unarmed neighbor walking home from the store with some snacks.

           • Pummeling may not be descriptive, but one of the witnesses indicated this. Also it gave Zimmerman enough fear to call out for help. (We may never know who was yelling, so we don’t know who was so frightened.)

             • Two experts have concluded the voice crying for help wasn’t Zimmerman’s.

               http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

               Yes, one witness saw Trayvon on top. And, this one witness – the highly suspect, “John” – is finally coming clean.

               For example, “John” now says the two weren’t engaged in MMA style fighting. Rather, Trayvon was holding Zimmerman down. And, the two voices were coming up the path before the scuffle broke out near his backdoor.

               Trayvon may have been on top of Zimmerman at some point during the scuffle. But, per the lack of even remotely serious injury to either (other than the gunshot wound), Trayvon definitely wasn’t pummeling the crazed shooter.

               Don’t forget – another witness says the body on top stood up after the shooting and the body on the bottom never did.

             • There is some doubt about the “experts”‘ analysis of the voice on the phone. We may have to wait for the trial to hear what the FBI figured out. I wonder about the lack of Z’s DNA on TM’s hands. Someone explained this as being washed off in the wet grass. I think there are some things we may never know.

             • There are no doubts about the experts findings.

               There are doubts that Trayvon can ever be identified – even with the FBI’s most recent/current technologies – as being the person crying out for help with 100% certainty.

           • It’s funny how she came over here with her garbage but didnt try to read all of this evidence highlight in red and black, this makes her a lost cause. How do you attack a dead teenager? You would have to be heartless.

             • Comments and blogs such as: “Trayvon was going to make sizzurp with his snacks” truly suck. But, keep in mind, stuff like this is intended solely to work people up and deflect attention from the real issue/case at hand.

     • HAHAHAHA

       I’ve seen that site before.

       Great experts at taking nothing and exaggerating it.

       They also call GZ “Jorge” when he himself calls himself “George”. But no, this site knows better.

       They also use the images of the gold-toothed New York Trayvon Martin that was discredited months ago.

       A site like that, I wouldn’t believe them if they said the sky is blue.

     • You are as disgusting as the site you are directing people to. I read your Passion of the saint skittles crap. What kind of people are you? why are you so hell bent on damaging and demeaning a dead human being, yes a dead human being. Who do you think you are to associate this young man who has not even been linked to this kind of activity nor in the blood evidence had anything of a sort in his system. You couldn’t stand the fact that we were here in this blog, discussing the case like intelligent people, we actually look at the evidence and piece things together. Where in the evidence has he been linked to this popular drink that killed so called Pimp C? you all are grasping at straws to make this kid look like the devil. You are a sad case. You think you are correct in what you are doing because you find yourself offended due to race coming into play. You people don’t have a clue of what you are doing, but it feels good and feels right to you so you go for it. What in this blog made you think this is a room for garbage like this? Do you think all young black males or black males period are on drugs, like to drink, and act foolish. You can’t seem to gather enough thought that perhaps Zimmerman is lieing. I just read a poll by a University that said fox viewers were the least informed of all media outlet viewers and I believe it. Do you ever while watching fox news think maybe they are only feeding you what you want to hear or see. Next time go read some evidence, better yet go read the autopsy report. By the way your friendly white supremacist, doctored up Trayvons facebook page and myspace account so good luck with that.

       • Theresa, I started out on this blog and explored other options. I was not aware that the facebook and myspace accounts were altered. If so, that would explain why Trayvon was shown being interested in drugs. I am not one of those who watches Fox. I abhor that network. They distort so much. The article I cited gave the information from the autopsy report on the fatty liver.

     • what watermelon drink, what did i miss? i thought it was iced tea. And why do so many people seem to have so much knowledge about how to make drugs, the thought would never cross my mind, it seems the people calling Martin a druggie thug seem to have a hell of a lot of knowledge about these things themselves.

       • [img]http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Not-a-Saint.png[/img]

     • Or his brother ordered the skittles as was first reported… Even if he wanted to make something… last I remember, the death penalty is only appropriate for murder. So wishing our kids dead over drugs opens a new can of worms about who kids are worthy of saving. If this were a young Paris Hilton or your own son, would you automatically create a connection that rationalize their wrongful death even though they were doing nothing wrong? Ask yourself how many kids, white, black and hispanic do drugs right now and yet deserve to live. It could be your child or a child you love smoking marijuana.

     • “eclecticsandra” is the handle of a regular commentor at Wagist.com, where she swims bravely against the flow of Trayvon-hate and Jorge-worship that dominates that forum. For this, she is routinely called ridiculous and much, much worse. It seems she is trying to look at all opinions and facts, reach sensible conclusions, or ask pertinent questions.

       Anyone can sign up on a webblog using any unclaimed handle. The post above may be a case of virtual-identity-theft. But I note it’s worded more carefully than a typical GZ-fan utterance, which would come out more like “TM didn’t consume the watermelon drink and the skittles during his long walk home because the thug was going to make some lean, idiot.”

       Another mystery on top of a mystery.

       • I havent seen that over here.Why the negative info over here and positive over there. Anyway, I dont care for information posted that has not been carefully read and a little research into the material done. I have read entirely too much bad info on a dead child to stomach any brought into this one blog I am comfortable in.

103. ANOTHER RAM IN THE BUSH!

     For all intents and purposes IT’S OVER. O’Mara and his client are in some deep caca. Or to take a page from Tina’s book, “RICKY AND LUCY GOTS SOME SPLAININ TO DO!”

     So there was no struggle for the gun. Just like many of us suspected. Those paltry scratches on his face, and the bad pimple marks were probably caused by some hedges, bushes or grass. They were definitely not caused by Trayvon. Maybe Shellie scratched him up in a fight over their food stamp card.

     Zimmerman claimed that Martin had attacked him, hitting him in the nose and knocking him back into the pavement. Tests, the results of which were made public Thursday, would show evidence of Zimmerman’s hands on the firearm, but not Martin’s.

     An analysis of scrapings from underneath the teenager’s fingernails did not contain any of Zimmerman’s DNA, as might rub off in the case of a prolonged struggle.

     http://www.wect.com/story/18547004/last-video-of-trayvon-martin-revealed

     T.G.

     • “Tests, the results of which were made public Thursday, would show evidence of Zimmerman’s hands on the firearm, but not Martin’s.”

       As you mentioned, we’ve been discussing this for a bit — awesome!

       Is the lack of Trayvon’s DNA on the gun now making news? How about the lack of Zimmerman’s DNA on Trayvon’s hands? Link(s)?

       The link above is regarding the footage from 7/11.

       • NLME,

         “How about the lack of Zimmerman’s DNA on Trayvon’s hands? Link(s)? ”

         Excellent question. So far I’ve not come across that information, but am still searching. If I find any, I’ll definitely post them with the links.

         I don’t think any of us will be surprised to find his DNA on Trayvon’s hands or any other part of his body, or even his clothing, afterall, he was seen by at least 3 witnesses standing/straddling Trayvon while pressing down on his back and neck, as Trayvon was laid face down with his hands beneath him.

         I do recall the ME’s report mentioning a scar on Trayvon’s right shoulder (I think) but it didn’t state the cause. Could very well be a childhood scar of some sort.

         I don’t believe the ME’s office has released it’s full report, and probably won’t for a while.

         Yes, that link did include footage from 7/11.

         T. G.

       • Was no discernible DNA of anybody on the trigger though. Let’s not forget the gun may have been partially wiped.

         Best catch so far is who noticed about the button being in the POCKET.

         That clearly indicates there was a scuffle from which TM WALKED AWAY with time to pick up his dropped items and pocket them.

         You don’t pick up your stuff unless the fight’s over as far as you’re concerned. Nobody walks away then turns around and attacks again 10 seconds later.

     • Yes, I found it strange that the trigger did not have zimmermans prints, do you think he wiped the trigger off because you know he probably got all his criminal knowledge from his criminal justice classes and his dad. He admits to shooting Trayvon so he can’t take that back but one would think he got scared right after he shot and wiped the trigger off. Anyway I was glad to read that Trayvons hands were not on the gun, this is another lie blown wide open. This man and his family are liars. I wonder if his ex fiance will testify as wll because she can give us a glimpse of his past with her. I also read up about Taaffe son who died and I was wondering why he brought up his sons death which occurred a few years ago.

       • The “story” that Trayvon Martin was reaching for his gun doesn’t hold any weight unless George Zimmerman could get Trayvon Martin’s fingerprints or DNA on the gun/trigger. George Zimmerman may have been trying to obtain such fingerprints/DNA after the shooting before witnesses Mary and Selma saw him atop the body doing pulse readings and before Witness 13 confronted George Zimmerman leaving the crime scene (possibly dropping his car keys and flashlights while Zimmerman further tried to taint the evidence). Witness 6 saw the body sprawled out on the grass prior to Mary and Selma and Witness 13 saw what they saw.

       • Oh yeah. Forgot to mention that the police saw the crime scene only AFTER Witness 6, Mary and Selma and Witness 13. In short, the police saw the crime scene after George Zimmerman tampered with it.

     • Who among us would fall back on a sidewalk and not put our hands out behind us to break the fall? Pictures of the confessed killer’s hands that night show NO abrasions? It is possible that he just fell back and didn’t try to break his fall but highly unlikely IMO.

       Where is a single defensive wound on the confessed killer? You are getting pummeled and not only do you not land a punch but you don’t have any damage from blocking a blow or two? Again, possible but highly unlikey.

104. Lean? I am so tired of people bringing up irrelevant things in this case.There isn’t any evidence that would support the notion that Tray was on lean. If he was on lean, why was the can of tea not already opened? Maybe he planned on mixing it at Brandy’s home but obviously he did not get the chance.

     • Kandigurly, that site will twist everything to suit themselves. Even calls GZ “Jorge” when he calls himself “George”. And uses pictures of that gold-tooth Trayvon that was proven to be someone else months ago.

       They illustrate Arizona Watermelon as the lean ingredient, TMs was TEA not watermelon. I am not convinced the quotes off the website are real, either. Someone else would have picked up on it ages ago if it were.

       And SO WHAT? The “relevance” is, they’re trying to make out this hypothetical lean usage made TM into a psychotic monster who attacked innocent Jorge for no reason. Funny that, looked like a peaceful and polite teenager in the 7-11.

       When it came out DeeDee was taken to hospital n shock, they also speculated what if she if maybe pregnant? in which case TM is a (statutory) rapist (ummm no, not if the kid isn’t his) …therefore he IS a rapist therefore he IS a violent thug, therefore he also attacks innocent NM guys…..

       Facts mean nothing to these guys. They’ll twist and invent anything, and are stupid enough to believe themselves.

       • FYI – Natalie Jackson tweeted that some of Trayvon’s friends were receiving offers of big money to dish dirt on Trayvon. Incentive to make up something, probably. I hope the kids at his school close ranks and do not fall for this cynical ploy to muddy the water.

         Can't believe low lives are stalking high school kids offering BIG money for any NEGATIVE info or videos of #trayvon. He's the VICTIM!!

         — Natalie Jackson, Esq. (@NatJackTweets) May 18, 2012

     • Kandigurly, she can’t explain that! she said first this is why it wasn’t touched then she says this is why he had super human strength to pummel Zimmerman. Talk about someone who is just a closed minded bigot. she came to this site and decided to taint it with non truths. A person with real interest in getting the truth out would look and read for themselves then they will have facts to present and not non sense. Perhaps if she would have paid attention the store clerk says he was polite and he never thought he was on drugs or anything but that doesn’t matter because it puts Martin in a good light,we must not have that because we don’t want people thinking that black people are decent human beings so we!! Zimmerman has a bruised nose with no xrays to back up a broken nose, he has 2 perfect cuts on the back of his head with no xrays, he also has 3 versions of his story, he has an eyewitness who decided not to commit perjury now, he has a father who spoke out of turns and can’t go back, he has a friend Frank Taaffe who is a criminal who has done time. I would love to know what she thinks makes Zimmermans word the gospel?

       • Theresa, I brought what I thought was a good article. I’m sorry you don’t want to consider any other viewpoint. I thought people on here wanted to exchange ideas. Sorry.

         • Please continue exchanging ideas (for as long as you’d like of course)! Your ideas may not be popular on the site – and thus up for much ridicule – but that shouldn’t silence your opinion. Thanks again for your comments over the past few months.

         • You really are gonna come in here and play innocent!! No one wants to read the drivel in those articles, did you even read it? The passion of saint skittles? Am I suppose to read this racist garbage and unjustified lies then all of a sudden feel sorry for Zimmerman. How can you read anything on that site and come to a fact based conclusion. You say you came over here thinking we would be interested in, what you think would clear Zimmerman but in fact you came over here for your public smear campaign against a dead teen. If you love Zimmerman that is your own fault, seek counseling, but as you can see over here we have analyzed the evidence and we have did the work neccesary to draw an educated conclusion based on facts. You have made up your mind based on how you feel in your heart about a particular race, why else would you bring your race baiting site over here.

       • yeah i agree that this watermelon drug article is a real stretch and pretty crappy, but i’ve noticed that eclecticsandra has made comments for/against both sides and seems pretty neutral. This article made me roll my eyes too but for the most part i have enjoyed sandra’s contributions and hope she continues to post, it’s good to have someone on the fence here and while this example is probably one we could all do without (so far fetched and typical propaganda of zimmerman die hards) i appreciate sandra putting forth arguments that others might be discussing.

105. Thank you, NLME. I don’t do this to be popular, but I don’t like being called things I am not. I’ll be back.

106. Thank goodness I found this site!Thanks for responding to my comment.Every thread I read has racist/hateful comments! Ugh!

107. Did the prosecutors get any statements from the 7/11 clerk about Tray’s behavior? I would really hope so.

108. Now this:

     One man interviewed by a local Fox news station, who asked to be identified only as John, said he saw the man wearing a red jacket — Zimmerman — on the ground, being beaten by someone on top of him — Trayvon.

     “The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me ‘Help, help,’ and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” he said.

     But last week another unidentified man told CNN that he saw a larger man on top and a boy underneath. There wasn’t much movement, he said.

     Zimmerman’s father told the Orlando TV station that as his son was being beaten he tried to move from the concrete onto the grass. In doing so, he said, the gun his son kept in a holster on his waist was exposed.

     “Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of ‘You’re going to die now’ or ‘You’re gonna die tonight’ — something to that effect,” Robert Zimmerman said. “He continued to beat George. At some point, George pulled his pistol and did what he did.”

     Seven calls came in to 911.

     “They’re wrestling right in the back of my porch,” one caller said. “A guy is yelling, ‘Help.’…. I’m pretty sure the guy is dead.”

     “I saw a man lying on the ground and he needed help, screaming,” one 13-year-old boy told 911. “I heard a loud sound, and the screaming stopped.”

     Selma Mora Lamilla heard no fighting, only what she says was the wail of a child and the distinct crack of gunfire that silenced it. She ran outside her back porch, where she said she saw Zimmerman standing above Trayvon, apparently holding him down.

     “I asked him, “What’s happening here? What’s going on?” Mora said. “The third time, I was indignant, and he said, ‘Just call the police.’ Then I saw him with his hands over his head in the universal sign of: ‘Oh man, I messed up.’ ”

     The police arrived at 7:17. Trayvon was dead

     http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2017887566.html
     ==========================================================
     ==========================================================

     If you sit, straddling someone, trying to bash their head on the ground, you have to sit pretty high on the torso, to get better leverage. You certainly need very good leverage, if the man you’re attacking is heavier than yourself. I’ll leave it to the musco-skeletal experts to say what is or isn’t possible, I’m sure the FBI has the medical experts, who can say just how hard TM was able to maneuver GZ’s head. But that aside.

     The story goes that GZ is working his way onto the grass when his gun is exposed! What??? Are we now to believe that TM had x-ray vision? Even if the gun were exposed, it would be completely behind him. Obviously, to be able to put one of his hands over GZ’s nose, and the other one over GZ’s mouth, he still needs to be sitting quite high on GZ’s torso.

     So, now GZ knows his gun is exposed, but he’s the only one who knows he has a gun, because TM can’t see it from his vantage point. But how does GZ retrieve the gun? His arms won’t reach around TM, so that’s impossible.
     The only way to reach the gun in his waistband, is to push his hand under TM, between his legs, get a good grip on the gun and somehow release the safety strap, then draw it up and out.

     Only thing is, from this position, the only thing he can do is, if he’s lucky, take a wild shot. He can’t raise his hands much, because that will expose the gun to TM’s sight, and TM would force it away. TM, in this position, would have the advantage and superior leverage against GZ doing much of anything with his arms, if GZ tried to extend them at all.

     So the shot should go either to the left or the right and/or upwards. Not straight ahead and high on TM’s chest. But low down at and/or below the rib cage.

     It goes without saying that if this version is true, TM must have GZ’s trace on his hands, blood, saliva, dna, and probably fibers as well.

109. Okay NLME, I’ve finished scraping posts 1 through 175, now what email add do I send it?

     • thelist@bcclist.com Thank you!

110. i am really bursting to get the information about all the messages and calls zimmerman made in the hours and days after the shooting..i get the feeling a lot will be revealed…….i must admit i haven’t had the time to go through the evidence dump yet except for a few quick looks and rely on you guys here to report the information (thank you all by the way, this is a wonderful community thanks to NLME) but i think they are saving the best for last. George seems like a smug prick and i can imagine some bragging going on.

111. This is the timeline I developed. It really is long. I should find another way for publishing it. However, it has been a nice tool for me to work. I hope it will help the folks around here in their quest.

     ~6:23 TM pays for the skittles and ice tea. At some point, with his right hand, he touches his mobile phone headset unit that was hanging off his hoodie. He puts the skittles in his waistband and got the ice tea in a brown plastic bag that he keeps in his hands.

     ~6:24 TM leaves the cashier and exits the 7-11 after some hesitations. He has his hood on, his pin (button) on his sweater on the left side of his chest, and the brown bag in his left hand. Note that TM was on the phone all the time according to T-mobile phone log and DeeDee’s statements.

     ~6:39 [time eval from googlemap] TM finds shelter from the rain at the complex’s mailboxes right by the club house (According to DeeDee). He is still on the phone with her.

     ~6:53 [time from t-mobile call log] The phone hangs up.

     ~6:54 [time from t-mobile call log] DeeDee calls back and has a 18min talk with TM. During that time, TM tells her about someone watching him from his car. He also tells her that the man is on the phone and that he (TM) is going to walk again.

     ~7:04 [time from t-mobile call log] TM receives a call from a non-t-mobile phone. TM puts DeeDee on hold for less than a minute. Who is the caller? What did he learn from TM?

     7:09:34 GZ connects with Sanford Police Dept. He says TM is at the club house. DeeDee states that TM found shed at the mailboxes because of the rain. The mailboxes are right by the club house.

     7:10:16 TM stares at GZ per GZ statement.

     7:10:37 TM walks on Twin Trees Ln, toward GZ’s truck with his hands in his waist band. TM still has his pin on his sweater [GZ=” He’s got button on his shirt.”]. GZ sees TM is in his late teens.

     7:10:54 TM still has his 7-11 plastic bag in his hands [GZ=” He’s got something in his hands.”]

     7:11:08 TM passes by GZ’s truck [per GZ].

     7:11:41 TM starts running toward the back entrance [per GZ]. Within seconds, GZ exits his truck and chases TM [par background noise @ 2’19].

     ~7:12 [time from t-mobile call log] DeeDee’s call is interrupted. As she immediately calls back TM, he tells her that the man is still following him behind the car [GZ is still watching TM after he passed his truck]. TM tells DeeDee that he is going to run. As he starts running, she can hear the wind interference in the phone. TM finally tells DeeDee he lost the man. She can also tell TM is out of breath and is scared as he lowered his voice. Finallt, TM decides to walk as he tells DeeDee he lost GZ and that he is right by his house. [This is of obviously lasting more than a minute]

     7:12:00 GZ is asked not to chase TM by dispatcher. GZ verbally agrees.

     7:12:11 GZ states that he lost view of TM [GZ=”He ran”] and stops running.

     7:12:21 Tapping noise in the background [GZ’s call]

     7:12:38 Tapping noise in the background [GZ’s call]

     7:12:43 Tapping noise in the background [GZ’s call]

     7:12:59 GZ admits not knowing the address he is parked at. He positions his truck at a cut through.

     7:13:14 GZ gives 1950 has his home address [Retreat View Cir] and suddenly fears to be heard by TM as he calls him “kid”. He agrees to meet Police at mail boxes.

     7:13:23 GZ suddenly changes his mind and now wants to be called as he doesn’t know where he will be in the following minutes.

     7:13:41 GZ hangs up.

     ~7:14 [time eval from DeeDee’s statement = “So, and in a couple minutes, he said the man’s following him again, he’s behind him.”] GZ is back again behind TM. DeeDee begs TM to run but he refuses as he is out of breath. TM tells DeeDee that GZ is catching up on him. The she hears TM says “Why are you following me for?”. She then hears the GZ say “What are you doing around here?”. She hears like a bump and the grass [something falls on the grass?].

     <7:15:56 Selene Bahadoor @ 2841 RVC hears, from her bedroom upstairs, commotions behind her house. She then sees the shadow of individuals running north on the back path. She sees a fist fight and what follows but cannot tell who’s who. She won’t call 911.

     <7:15:56 A former teacher @ 2851 RVC hears two loud men arguing behind her house. She can identify two voices: A younger one that sounds scared & a older and dominant one. She can identify a gap of time without loud arguing. Then she hears cries for help and sees two men on the ground. She states that there was not much movement on the ground before the gunshot.

     <7:15:56 Jonathan Manalo @ 2861 RVC (of Philippine’s origins) hears two loud men arguing behind his house. His statement is very similar than the one made by his neighbor at 2851 RVC.

     <7:15:56 Johnathan Good aka John @ 1221 TTL hears yelling in the grass area behind his house. He is not sure at first but at second yell for helps he opens the blinds, sees nothing, moves on with opening the door and sees a GZ on the ground getting hit by TM.

     <7:15:56 Witness @ 2821 RVC walks out through her back porch to walk her dog and sees her neighbor [Johnathan Good @ 1221 TTL] talking to someone groaning “help me” while on the ground. She couldn’t see who’s who but identifies the person on the ground as being the kid [probably by the voice of the crying person].

     <7:15:56 witness @ 1231 TTL hears loud voices coming from the back path area behind her house. One of the voices was really dominant. The voices stopped. She laid on her bed to read and then heard the loud voices again. She got up, opened her window shut off the light and saw 2 peoples on the ground the one on top had a white t-shirt. As she calls 911, she hears the cries for help and those cries aren’t from the dominant voice she heard earlier.

     ~7:15:56 [eval from re-enactment of witness @ 2821 RVC] John [Johnathan Good @ 1221 TTL] Yells at GZ & TM to demand that they stop fighting and tell them that he is calling 911. Witness @ 2821 RVC pulls inside her house and rush upstairs for hiding.

     <7:16 [time from t-mobile call log] End of DeeDee’s call to TM.

     7:16:11 [1st witness’s 911 call] Jennifer Lauer together with Jeremy Weinberg connect with 911. Cries for help can be heard in the back ground.

     <7:16:56 [witness @ 2831 RVC] Selma Mora Lamilla & Mary Cutcher are in the kitchen when they hear crying or moaning of desperation coming from the back path.

     7:16:56 [from 1st 911 call] Witness @ 2821 RVS calls 911. She is worried about something bad happening to an elderly person 4 doors north of hers.

     >7:16:56 Selma & Mary rush outside and see GZ straddling TM who is laying on the grass face down. GZ has both hands on his back. Selma asks GZ 3x “everthing Okay? What’s going on?” after what GZ answers with “just call police.”. As Mary calls 911, GZ starts walking/pacing while touching his head.

     >7:16:56 Austin McLendon rushes home to tell his older sister sierra McLendon to call 911.

     7:17:11 Officer T. Smith arrives at the mailboxes and learns about the gunshot. He is redirected to 1231 TTL & then to 2821 RVC.

     ~7:17:56 A man walks to GZ with a flashlight [many witness see someone out with a flashlight 1min after the shot].

     7:19:07 The man with a flashlight takes a picture of GZ’s bleeding head.

     ~7:19:18 Officer T. Smith arrives to the crime scene and arrests GZ. [Former teacher @ 2’22 = “Oh, my God! I think there is another gentleman with a flashlight. … I don’t know if that’s police or not. Oh, my God! He shot, he shot the person. He just said he shot the person” ]

     ~7:30 TM is pronounced dead by SFD.

     ~9:30 Investigator Tara Clark arrives at the crime scene.
     The initial inspection gives no identification of TM.
     TM’s body was lying in the grass; 3-4ft west from back path, the face down, the head toward north. The location is between 1221 TTL & 2851 RVC.
     TM had no significant trauma besides the gunshot at the chest left of the midline.
     TM was in possession of a bag of skittles, a can of Arizona ice tea & $40.15 in his waist band.
     TM also had a 7-11 lighter, a photo button (the chest pin) and headphones in his pocket.
     TM’s cell phone was found in the grass near his body.
     TM’s 7-11 plastic bag was found empty near his body on the back path.
     GZ also had items found at the crime scene. His Honda car keys, a small grey flashlight attached with the key and another flashlight (bigger and black) were found in the grass. GZ had his 9mm gun on the ground, the magazine was retrieved and the holster was in his waist band.

     • Excellent breakdown of the timing. My only question: Trayvon was at/near the clubhouse for 30 minutes waiting out the storm? I don’t doubt this – to be honest, I haven’t reviewed the timing of his calls much – but it’s definitely more patience than I’d have as a teenager (or even adult).

       • At this point I have no other explanation.
         DeeDee says she was on the phone with him all the way from the 7-11.
         She says that as TM started to walk again bothered by this guy watching him, the phone hang up. She called back immediately TM just passed by GZ’s truck and runs.
         I had to line that up with the TM’s call logs. There are 7:12/4min, 6:54/18min overlapped with a 7:04/1min (non-t-mobile caller). So, the 18min call must be the one during which TM tells her that he is at the mailboxes to hide from the rain. It must also be the one where he tells her about GZ watching him from the rain.
         Finally, it takes 15min to walk from the 7-11 to the club house. So, TM can potentially be there from 6:39 on.

         It may also explain how GZ ended up crossing path with TM. The odds were very slim for GZ to notice TM if both were just moving to there destinations. But, with TM staying at the mailboxes near the north entrance, GZ could have taken the shortest way (RVC) from home to the north entrance, noticed TM at the mailboxes and decided to make a right on TTL and park there to keep an eye on him. He may have done this for many minutes prior to calling police. He may have called other persons. Worst, he may have had the time to plan something against TM. That last one would be Machiavellian but after reading the testimony of Flashlight man stating GZ spoke like killing TM was nothing, I start wondering about GZ’s mental state.

         Any competing view is welcomed. That’s what your blog is for.

         BTW. It might be another witness of the early phase when TM was at the mailboxes. I’m thinking about the 7:04 caller. He/She may reinforce DeeDee’s testimony.

       • Take the times he’s at the a and the b location.
         Then using the time and speed, figure out how long it
         took to get from a to b. The excess time is spent doing
         other things.

     • Great timeline.

       Just to clarify the : “~6:23 TM pays for the skittles and ice tea. At some point, with his right hand, he touches his mobile phone headset unit that was hanging off his hoodie.”

       I think he actually has headphones connected to his cell phone, not a bluetooth headset. Just before he says ‘hello’ in the 7-11 video, he appears to be playing with something at the front of his chest, where a button may be from the headphones.

       The only reason I’m being picky about this is because I figured from the ending of DeeDee’s call, that if they could find the location the bluetooth headset fell, then they would know the location that the first fight started. But it seems to be headphones, and those were found as part of the contents of his pockets. So, unfortunately, it looks like we won’t have a headset breadcrumb to tell us exactly where they first met.

       But the headphones in his pockets also makes things interesting.

       He had time to put his headphones in his pockets, (along with the iced tea and button), but it’s the CELL PHONE that is founds on the ground… which had previously been clipped to him or in a pocket? So, the cellphone fell to the ground as part of the second altercation, not the first.

       During their break in fighting, did he put everything in his pockets, then attempt to call 911, and then Zimmerman went after him as he tried to dial? Did he think it was over and try to call DeeDee back? Or did it just fall out as part of their second fight?

       • “During their break in fighting, did he put everything in his pockets, then attempt to call 911, and then Zimmerman went after him as he tried to dial?”

         Robert Zimmerman said he son was reaching for his cellphone before the shooting, correct? Or, am I getting things confused? Regardless, somebody said that (as I recall). If we continue with the assumption that Zimmerman’s account was basically everything Trayvon did so that any eyewitness account could be skewed/uncertain, this makes sense.

         W.T.F?!?

         • Nevermind – the cell phone part was from Zimmerman’s (leaked) account of that night’s happenings:

           http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/police-leak-details-of-george-zimmermans-account-of-trayvon-martin-shooting/1222087

       • My guess on that is that TM was not done collecting his items when GZ came back to him. The last item TM didn’t got back was the phone. Maybe he took it but then it fell again.
         Anyhow, DeeDee is very clear about the fact that the phone fell in the grass. She’s clear that she could hear grass.

         DeeDee: Yeah. I hear something like bump. You could hear that Trayvon—somebody bumped Trayvon. I could hear the grass.

         • (I would check if I wasn’t on my phone but) How far was the phone found from Trayvon’s body? His phone records aren’t public yet, correct?

           Completely hypothetical:

           A scuffle ends. Trayvon picks up belongings. He starts to dial somebody — 911? Phone gets knocked away/thrown. More scuffle. Shooting incurs.

       • The cell phone was on the grass next to the utility block on the ground. It was basically next to TM’s body.

     • The witness who brings her dog back inside after hearing “John” say “911” isn’t at 2821 RVC. She’s Suzanna Bahadoor, Selene’s older sister. 2821 RVC is the most likely source of the 911 call expressing concern about “an older gentleman” who lives several doors to the North.

     • I’ve reposted it here:
       Time line posts collected from blogs
       http://zimmerman-vs-martin.blogspot.com/2012/09/time-line-posts-collected-from-blogs.html

       I’m scraping a number of blogs for the most credible timeline posters I can find. and posting a collection for readers to peruse.

       BTW, google has finally added a new feature that gives me good control of permissions now. So I can promote anyone signed up to my blog to author articles and such. Unlike the trouble we had before, where I could only promote someone who had a google account.

       But now back to the fray:

       I’m thinking that if GZ took RVC west to the front gate, he probably would not have seen TM sheltering at the mailboxes? I guess we’d have to look at a street view to tell. But my hunch is that TM would be sheltering from heavy rain. That would give GZ a poor view of the area, through a windshield and side window speckled with heavy rain in the darkness. With his focus on making a left turn to go out the gate, it would probably take some dramatic TM movement, to divert his attention from the road.

       Add that your later cctv analysis doesn’t seem to support such an approach.
       More likely GZ left home, went east to check the back gate, then turned north on TTL to survey the mailbox/clubhouse area. Meaning that he was looking for someone. How would he know someone was there if he had not been told?

       I appreciate the hard work you and NMLE and others have been putting into this matter. My site/blog is just a collection of evidence/article/blog posts for reference. I post there without discussion, as I mean it to be sort of a library for me, and for anyone who chooses to read it. The number of readers is growing slowly day by day. But I sure could use some help getting things in a better order. Anyway keep up the good work guys/gals.

       • Geeze, I munged that, I’m not reposting the articles, just the links to them, in an article I’ve moved to the very bottom of the blog post list.

112. in the updated map where zim is parked south of the pathway towards the back entrance i have a question, sorry if it’s been discussed. In the US you drive on the right hand side so i get a bit confused since we have left side driving where i am from. I am confused as to how zim ended up south of the path. Did zim follow martin (driving on the right) from the sport centre, all the way south? i thought when he said trayvon was running toward the back entrance he got out of his car to follow, this would indicate to me that he couldn’t follow by car any longer so it must have been north of the path if martin was running south. When did zim drive his car to the south part of the path? couldn’t have been when martin started running because he got out of his car and followed. Did he return to his car after the phone call and drive to the south end? Sorry i think i’m missing something here, thanks.

     • The pursuit was entirely on foot. So, the vehicle remained parked where indicated for the entire duration of the chase.

       • oh yes i can see it now, sorry i thought that shot was from the top of the t looking all the way down south, i don’t know why i thought that though because on closer inspection it is obvious it is a view from the east across the top of the T. Sorry about that.

113. I’ve been out for a day and when I come back I see you guys had a breakthrough! Come on! Next time, wait for me.
     The finding about the photo button that is found in TM’s waist band rather than being pinned on the chest is quite interesting.
     The empty 7-11 plastic bag together with the ice tea being found in the waist band too ads on to it.
     So, I have inserted this information to my timeline posted above. It helped me realize that the 2 or 3 witnesses who told us about a gap of time between the 1st loud argument and the 2nd were talking about a significant time gap.
     I knew that that time gap in itself blows away GZ’s claim that there was a brief encounter before being beaten. But now I realize that the gap actually splits two violent encounters. One of the witness heard the argument, went to bed to read and then heard the argument again. That puts easily 10s of seconds as time gap. I easily picture TM picking up his stuff that fell to the ground after a first encounter.

     • Man, it’s truly harrowing to think about the last minutes of Trayvon’s life.

       • I agree. It’s awful to think what must have been going through his mind during those final moments. Just thinking of the screams heard on 911 call and the photo of him shown to his father is truly heartbreaking!

       • Turns my stomach.

114. Apparently, what we don’t know is even worse for GZ. Read on…
     http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shootingbre84o000-20120524,0,7659623.story

     • This is not going to end well for Zimmerman. I hope he realizes this by now. Per O’Mara’s statement in the Tribune’s link, I’m starting to think he does.

       • All of what you are seeing, according to that new story, is standard procedure for both sides.

         For starters, when making statements to police, slight changes in word use, even emotional word use, is considered “contradictory” or “inconsistent.” The standard for what is contradictoryor inconsistent is pretty low when it helps to make your case. Ultimately, these are determinations for judges and juries to make. Remember, “the prosecution” is still lawyers.

         And consider this. What would people say if every time someone said something, it was precisely the same every time? That it was rehearsed? Planned? Unnatural? It’s pretty much a case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. In fact do yourself a favor and watch this:

         http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=97484157416073610

         This gives inside information about police and how things work.

         As for O’Mara’s statement. Once again — standard.

         Have you never followed a criminal case before? There’s really nothing in that news story that is new or helpful in any way. Nothing specific mentioned. Posturing.

         • We’ll see Daniel, we’ll see.

           Did you watch the bond hearing? Did you see the prosecutors go after Zimmerman regarding his statements to police and investigators? De la Rionda was chomping at the bit but got called off by the judge.

           • They *always* do that. It’s standard. Believe me… no, don’t believe me. Just watch that two-part video. The first guy is an experienced defense attorney, they other is a professional policeman who backs up everything the lawyer said. Their job is getting convictions and they will use every angle to get them. They get promoted based on their successes as police and as prosecuting attorneys. It is what they do.

             What’s more, conflicting stories is extra normal. It is extremely rare for testimony and forensics to match up 100%. Human factors are always at play. And we see those very same factors right here. When one person hears “wrestling” they think one thing. When another who said it means something entirely different. We tend to use imprecise language without ever realizing it. “MMA style fighting” is a lot more precise than wrestling though it could be said they are the same thing without being terribly wrong. It’s just that MMA is more brutal and involves punching… usually in the face and head.

             I have seen bond hearings. I have seen grand juries. I have seen the inside of criminal proceedings in courtrooms. If you have not, then perhaps you should. Otherwise, you are pretty much parroting what the news says and you’re more or less talking about things you seriously don’t understand.

             You know what you believe, but the facts are quite different.

             So please, take about half an hour and watch the lawyer and policeman speak about why even the most innocent of people should not talk to police. It’s serious. Because the next time you walk through a WalMart and some enterprising mother with a child needs another victim, you could find yourself being questions about why you touched her child’s bottom when you did nothing at all. The truth does NOT set you free. It convicts you more often than not.

             • Naw – I was asking if you watched Zimmerman’s bond hearing. The judge quickly calling De la Rionda off regarding Zimmerman’s several stories from that night was telling.

               In your example, if I ever got accused of molesting a child in Walmart, I’d have them pull the tapes. If I ever got accused of molesting a child and there were no tapes, it would have to be proven in a court of law. If that was the case, I wouldn’t have to lie. I’d just precisely tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

               Instead, here’s Zimmerman’s route so far under oath…

               “I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am.”

               Note: “John’s” MMA style fighting witness account has been “cleaned up.”

               “He also said he was no longer sure Trayvon was throwing punches. The teenager may have simply been keeping Zimmerman pinned to the ground, he said.”

               http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent

     • in the affidavit i think it said zimmerman confronted martin. Maybe this came from zimmerman himself in one of his statements. It might be the statement the prosecution say implicates him that they want to keep sealed.

       • I was thinking Zimmerman may have said he was angry.

       • Sleuth pointed out the word “confront” in the evidence dump. Comment (from the original blog posting)…

         bcclist.com/2012/03/27/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map/#comment-15975

         BccList.com evidence dump coming soon! 🙂

       • What I read yesterday about the request to seal evidence specifically mentioned CONFESSIONS.

     • Oh oh, his pants are aflame! This shouldn’t be news to anyone reading here. Looking at just the publicly available data from the case, there are MANY inconsistencies and things GZ has said that simply do not add up or flat contradict one another.

       However, as frustrating as a gag order on these statements might be to us armchair detectives, I reluctantly admit that by this point they have to try and slow down the public discussion in order to be able to even get a jury.

       This info being constantly in the news makes it much harder to find potential jurors who (a) either know nothing about the case, or (b) know something about the case but have not made up their minds.

       • Agreed. But, as long as the public doesn’t continue hearing/seeing obviously false one-sided “evidence” like…

         Zimmerman was attacked from behind while he was just simply following the 911 dispatcher’s request to return to his vehicle.

         Zimmerman was pummeled badly during the MMA style fight and these are pictures of his GRAPHIC injuries.

         Trayvon Martin had bloodied knuckleS.

         • “Zimmerman was pummeled badly during the MMA style fight and these are pictures of his graphic injuries. Trayvon Martin had bloodied knuckleS.”

           I’d like to urge folks to take a few moments to read “Using bare hands on the punching bag? Bad Idea!” (http://heavyfists.com/bare-hands-punching-bag). Particularly note the photo of a guy who HAD been hitting a heavy bag bare-fisted (http://heavyfists.com/wp-content/uploads/damaged-knuckles.jpg).

           The heavy bag is meant to condition you for the resistance encountered during the delivery of body blows. Hitting someone in the head is more like hitting a wall or a refrigerator, because there is little padding and the brain is well-armored with a thick layer of skull bone. The technical term for what happens after you hit someone’s skull forcefully with your bare fist is “boxer’s fracture”.

           Some examples from photos taken shortly after such fights:

           http://meded.ucsd.edu/clinicalimg/upper_boxer%27s_fracture.htm

           

           http://www.myspace.com/mrjohny/photos/46906191#%22ImageId%22%3A46906191

           In all of these the fracture is identified by the puffy swelling across the back of the hand over the last two fingers. Nota bene: all these guys have scuffed up hands as well.

           Trayvon’s hands prove that he was not pummeling Zimmerman, period.

           • FWIW: I can – not proudly at all – concur.

             I’m not sure if ligament/muscle damage is checked during autopsies but there would likely be some damage to the wrists as well if Trayvon was “pummeling” Zimmerman “MMA style.”

       • Thanks gunnora. It ads well to the fact that GZ’s wound were superficial and required no form of treatment.

115. Daniel, that is a lovely and funny video – but it is from a law school lecture, and deliberately exaggerated.

     If one time you say ” I was terrified” and next time you say ” I was scared” that is not a discrepancy. It is not identical but it is essentially the same. If the second time you say “nah, wasn’t scared at all” then that IS inconsistent.

     First time you say went left, second time say went right…….ahem, which was it actually?

     First time say got jumped from behind, second time say you argued first…..

     First time say you saw 4 people, next time say only saw one…….

     The investigators will not get suspicious of you for not looking as shaken 5 hours later as you did immediately. They will get suspicious if you claim you walked from A to B, if earlier you said you were never at A.

     WHY did GZ talk to the police?
     1: lawyering up instantly makes you look guilty
     2: by talking openly he was trying to create the impression he’s “one of them” which in the past has led to people avoiding charges
     3: talking, he had a chance to persuade them ( and NEARLY GOT AWAY WITH IT)
     4: not talking, they’d be forced to investigate really thoroughly (which this way they didn’t).

     In other words, if he didn’t talk they’d not get HIS SIDE of the story, and miss the (to him) crucial point, that he was afraid for his life.

     Just on the other evidence, it’s murder 1. (He’s found with gun in hand standing over shot body, screams for help all assumed to be victim’s as he’s not stated he was afraid). This way it’s murder 2 after a fair chance of not being charged at all.

     • I would think he thought he had done his duty as NW. But how would this fit with being handcuffed? And, apparently he had already talked to his father. I would expect his father to know enough about law to immediately procure a lawyer for GZ. His demeanor in the garage seems strange, as if nothing unusual was happening.

116. In the evidence photos, the pictures of Zimmerman’s boot show debris, grass and a some serious soaking on the FRONT, but the back of the boots looks pretty clean. Wouldn’t that mean he was the one on top?

     • wtf?? that’s a great observation, his toes were in the turf, his heels were not, could only mean one thing. GREAT observation.

       • Hey jo — any interest?

         https://bcclist.com/2012/05/14/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-court-proceedings-and-trial/#comment-16335

         I (obviously) completely understand if not!

     • Wow – excellent observation! Added to the Update section. Thank you!

     • We know GZ was on top when he straddled TM after the gunshot. However this doesn’t mean he wasn’t on the bottom at some point.

       • I agree.

       • @Toneii –

         But no grass, debris or wet stains indicate that he was NOT on the bottom. That means all his positions were from on top.

       • Also, don’t forget, all pics of Zimmerman’s “injuries” show blood from his head rolling sideways down his head indicating that he was on top. No evidence has been presented whatsoever that Zimmerman’s blood flowed any other way except in a manner that could only come from one looking down as if they were on top, leaning over someone.

       • can anyone remember if trayvons clothes were wet or had grass stains on them? George’s back didn’t look wet and grassy in the police video but the front of his boots are, surely one of them had to have a grassy back at least.

     • CommonSenseForChange,

       Great catch! I noticed that also. I agree, definitely on top.

       • But the officer’s report states his jacket ‘appeared’ to be wet with grass and officer even looked at back of jacket on video in police garage.

     • I just looked at the photo. I don’t see any debris, grass or “serious soaking.”

       

       What I see are scuffs and scratches that would be typical of utility boots. The marks on the boots are white. The grass at the retreat was a nice lush green. I have some boots kind of like that. The toes are all scratched up, and the heels are fine.

       The photos were taken long enough after the struggle that the boots would have dried enough not to show wetness in a photo, and any debris would have likely fallen away. (Or is GZ so dumb that as he works on his story during the ride to the SPD station he doesn’t think to rub the front of each boots against the back of the opposite pant leg?)

117. There is an illustration posted of Austin’s location the night of the shooting. He’s the 13 year old who was walking his dog.
     

     • I definitely want to know more about Austin’s account, stat! Do you know if this map is factually correct? Confirmed from the evidence dump? Things are blurring together again.

       • NLME,

         Based on the 911 call, we know Austin never said he saw anybody wearing a red sweater.

         If you go back and listen to the 911 call placed by Austin’s sister, you’ll notice the dispatcher NEVER even asked Austin what color anything, anybody was wearing.

         Austin tells the dispatcher it was too dark for him to see much. He does say he saw someone on the ground, and was going to help them, but “his dog got lose”, he went to get his dog, then heard a shot, or something along those lines.

         To me, when I hear that statement, it gives me the impression, Austin was heading along the route towards “the doggie poop basket” at the T. It also gives the impression he was right up in the midst of what was happening. In other words, Austin might have seen more than what’s been told, and perhaps, more than some of the other witnesses.

         Three other things that caught my attention:

         1. If I recall correctly, Austin is the only witness to admit he was outside.

         2. Former school teacher mentions that initially when she heard voices outside, she said to herself, “Oh, that’s strange, somebody must be walking their dog, it’s raining”, or something similar to that.

         Did she perhaps see Austin?

         3. Austin is the only 911 caller (of the 7 witness calls that were released) to be asked by the dispatcher if he knew the person laying on the ground. I don’t recall any of the dispatcher’s asking any of the other callers that question.

         Something else I noticed about the dispatchers. By the 3rd call (I think), they started asking callers if they saw or heard a vehicle in the area. And of course, they say no. In fact, one caller stated that would be unusual because it’s nothing but yards in the area where they witnessed whatever they saw.

         This line of questioning seems to start AFTER they inform callers “a police officer” was already on the scene. Perhaps the questions were just a matter of protocol, but then again, the dispatchers could have been being prompted by a police officer as more information on the scene was being heard/seen.

         Maybe as the officer heard the confessed murderer making statements such as “he was circling my car and punched me”, (put whatever statement you like) and realizing Trayvon was a teenager. I don’t know, it’s just odd that Austin would be the only one asked if he knew the person laying on the ground.

         Even more alarming, is to think that Austin could have very well ended up being a victim that night simply because he was walking his dog. His mom even said he looks a lot like Trayvon, and likes to wear hoodies.

         The bottom line is, the confessed murderer had no daggone business running around, chasing anybody with a loaded gun, especially in an area where children lived and played on a regular basis.

         T. G.

       • NLME,

         Oooops! I did it again. Having some type of typo day. (smiles)

         I meant to say:

         “Three other things that caught my attention:”, not Two.

         • Cool – I’ll edit. I didn’t see an edit needed in the earlier comment. Meaning, the edit was the same as what was in the original. Just a FYI if it still needs to be updated.

     • That suspiciously too close to the scuffle. I don’t believe it. I believe that nearly all other witnesses would have noticed him. I also believe that he would have been able to see much more than he did.

       • Tchoupi – You’re all over the witness accounts (!) — do you remember Austin’s? Isn’t he the witness that didn’t see much because his dog got away? But, isn’t he the same kid whose mother hired a lawyer because the Police weren’t accurately noting her son’s account?

       • He is indeed. But his account doesn’t bring much except that it confirms that there was a man on the ground. He saw less than any other witness that night.

         • Thank you! So, a brief statement from Austin with no further account(s) is what’s currently known. I wonder if there’s something else. Just seems like there has to be if Austin’s mother sought legal counsel and was upset by how the Sanford PD was noting her son’s account.

       • I understood that her complaint is more about how investigators pushed Austin’s testimony in the way they wanted that is that GZ was the guy at the bottom.
         Apparently, Austin later went to his mom to tell her that he couldn’t see anything but the shadow of a person on the ground and that the color red he testified was induced by the officer. He also said that he never saw a fight since he saw just one person on the ground. He actually thought that man fell down on the floor and was crying for help because he hurt himself.
         It is a bit similar to the witness that I locate at 2821 RVC. She says she couldn’t see anything but one person on the ground plus John telling him that he was going to call 911. She even states that at some point she thought the person on the ground was the elderly man leaving 4 doors north from her that had a heart attack.
         It makes two witnesses saying that they could only see the person on the ground and not the person on top. This is why I don’t believe Austin was so close to the scuffle as shown in the link posted by Marilyn.

       • I agree that Austin’s location is not all that relevant since he’s an ear-witness. He ran away when his dog got away from him. Dogs are weird like that. The dog probably saved Austin’s life.

     • Interesting photo set. If those are GZ’s keys with the flashlight, makes you wonder what they’re doing up by the T.

       It might suggest the first encounter was at the T.

       • We don’t know whose keys those are. I suggested before that GZ probably left his keys in his car because we heard the dinging when he was getting out of the car.

         • I wondered about the dinging as well. But, if Zimmerman was worried about the “kid” hearing his address – ??? – then he would probably be worried about his vehicle (with keys in the ignition) getting stolen.

           2 sets of keys?

           • Nawh, this is Florida not New York, people leave their keys all the time. In NYC you can’t even leave your keys while going to the window to pay for gas.

             I don’t get it; if it was “f–ken Cold” why would he turn off the engine?
             But hey, G’s as in “goons” doesn’t sound like C’s as in “Coons” nor
             does “cold” have an N in the ending. My guess is he was saying Coons.
             Not that you have to be racist to say coons, but it says that he’s very
             upset over nothing!

             He’s spotted someone he thinks is suspicious, so what? You can’t conclude that someone who merely looks out of place, is involved in criminal activity.
             All you can say is something doesn’t seem right. That’s not enough to dream it into an emergency situation like GZ did. My god, it’s a wonder he hadn’t shot up half the neighborhood.

             This is why I get the impression that there’s a lot more to it, going on behind the scene.

             If you separate out the parts, it begins to look like GZ has pushed past several “points of no return”, where he can de escalate hostilities. Each time he does this in the narratives, he makes it seem that he’s actually seeking this conclusion.

             • And, in a gated community. But, I’d think it had to at least cross Zimmerman’s paranoid mind that the teen would somehow get back to his car and take off in it.

             • I’d certainly think so, if he wasn’t the superman, armed “stalker/defender of the weak against the young, black and powerful.”

               I’m looking more closely to see if I can get a handle on where his wounds came from, now that we (and the SP and FBI) know that they didn’t come from fighting with TM. TM simply isn’t a combative kid! It takes a special kind of combativeness to go up against and older, larger and more impressive opponent on a dark rainy night. Most especially since you have to fear that your parents will hear about it. My guess is that TM would be deathly afraid that his parents would hear that he’d been in a fight of any sort! Most teens are, unless they’re from very bad nabes and raised by careless parents.

       • Car chime may just be because he left with the headlights on.
         The keys and the attached flashlights are identified in the list as owned by GZ. I think he would have told police if they weren’t his.

       • @milo –

         I read that one of the witnesses states they saw George Zimmerman with his hands in the air like “oh my go, what have I done” and a witness (possibly the same person) said Zimmerman was walking towards the tee after he killed Trayvon Martin just as the police arrived. Also, another witness mentioned that she got a better look of Zimmerman as he approached where she was peering out the window which was just before the police arrived also — towards the tee if it was the teacher. I’m going from memory, here.

       • @milo –

         All that and I neglected to mention the point is, Zimmerman may have dropped his keys when the police arrived or he could have done so deliberately knowing that most people will look for where the keys were dropped to indicate where a fight started. If that’s what he did, he royally f*d himself because maybe he hadn’t gotten that far along in his law studies to measure what begin-end distances of altercations imply. North-to-South indicates Trayvon Martin was fleeing towards home at the time of the shot.

     • I think they only mapped his address and someone did a photo shoot of that. Austin says he was out walking his dog. That could be anywhere along the path.

     • Marilyn, I neglected to thank you for the link. The picks of the scene there are awesome! They have spacial grids and also some close-ups of what looks like they came from local news on the ground videos.

       Thank you!

     • Marilyn,

       Wonderful illustration! Thank you. This is what I call a map w/grids for the spacially disadvantage such as myself (smile).

       Just from Austin’s statement to the dispatcher, this is the distance I visualized, but a little closer.

       Although we don’t know with any certainty now, but based on Austin’s call, I got the impression he had to be heading towards “the doggie poop basket”, which would have allowed him see more than what’s been reported.

       Did you create the map? If not, do you know who did? Thanks.

       T. G.

       • Is Austin’s call public? For the life of me, I can’t remember it. Or, was his call made by his sister? I remember a younger female voice that basically just pleaded for somebody to show up quickly.

       • Austin never called 911. His sister did but then the dispatcher asked to talk with him which he did. Most of the information from Austin comes from after the murder when police canvassed the area in search for witnesses.

       • Marilyn’s link is phenomenal.

         Heaps of images, carefully measured out with camera angles. Clearly someone interested in facts, they have similar series for the GUlf oil spill and the Fukushima nuclear plant.

         I’ve taken the liberty of inviting the owner to come and share with us.

         

       • NLME,

         Yes, Austin/sister’s call is still public. I just checked the link. It includes all of the originally released 911 witness calls.

         If Austin has given any other statements since the one with mom and attorney being present, the SP and O’Mara may even try to keep his statement sealed as long as possible. Remember, he is a minor.

         Just find it interesting that Austin’s sister places the 911 call and tells the dispatcher, “My brother saw someone who got shot behind our house”. The dispatcher asks her, “Did you see it?” She says, “No, my brother saw it”.

         YOUR COMMENT:

         “I remember a younger female voice that basically just pleaded for somebody to show up quickly.”

         I think that’s the 30yo female caller who saw “a guy who was on top with a white t-shirt”.

         http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-grio/46771333/#46771333

118. Had anyone heard of the Latasha Harlins case? It’s very similiar to this case. A korean store clerk falsely accused a 15 year old girl of stealing orange juice. The store clerk grabbed Latsha and as a result they got into a scuffle. Latasha ends up putting the oj on the counter an turns to leave. The store clerk shoots her in the back of the head.Latasha died with $2 in her hand and the store clerk tried to say that Latasha tried to take $ out her register and she shot her in self defense. The store clerk was sentenced to five yrs probation I believe. Mind you, this whole incident was caught on tape! Imagine how hard its going to be to convict GZ.

     • I don’t think it will be too tough but you never know.

       Why? You can’t stalk, harass, prey upon, etc your unarmed neighbor – so, the moment Zimmerman went south of his parked vehicle – and have Stand Your Ground or self defense cover your ass.

       • Sorry I have to disagree with you here. TM and GZ both knew before TM even reached the car, that they were both involved in something. TM thought it was strange and frightening, GZ thought he was trailing a criminal. But they both knew that they had engaged.

         But “the color” of the actions being undertaken that day, were already in place!
         As NW GZ already knew not to carry and arm and to follow! He knew that he was carrying an arm, and he already knew he was following.

         Under the situation presented, where he was still in his car and the suspect simply appeared in view unexpectedly, these transgressions of the NW rules are minor and can be excused. However, once he get’s out of his car, not knowing where his suspect is, or what his suspect might be planning to do in defense against actions that have clearly upset him. That is when GZ goes totally wrong! Since, according to NW rules, his responsibilities ended with the call to the police who said they’d send someone to investigate. There was nothing further for him to do, within the rules and laws, but to wait for the police to arrive.

         Immediately when he stepped out of his car, he exposed both himself and the suspect to a potentially deadly situation. Since, if the stranger were to have been waiting for him to assume a more venerable posture, he does and he’s armed when he does it.

         The police told Tracy that GZ told them, that when TM walked over to his car and knocked on his window. He rolled the window down and, when asked why he was following TM, he LIED about his own conduct and did not identify or even explain his own actions. Something even he believes, gives an innocent person the right to take defensive actions. Of course GZ has a deadly firearm, so he has nothing to fear. TM, on the other hand has 40 dollars in his pocket, is young and of fragile build, and so has plenty to fear!

         Consider what you’d be thinking if you had caught GZ following TM at that point, and discovered that GZ was armed. Without knowing that GZ was NW, you’d be going crazy with some very fearful thoughts about GZ.

         If TM had originally thought that GZ was perhaps just a police under cover, or a NW as the sign at the entrance warns, that idea was dispelled by GZ himself, when he decided to lie about his actions. He knew he was causing TM deep concerns, something a citizen has no right to do to anyone, even if they think that person is suspicious. I don’t see where the police have the right to lie about their identities, except as required by their special operations. NW’ers have no right to lie, as they have no right to engage “special operations”, which seems to be exactly what GZ thought he was doing that night! Which is exactly why his “special operations” should get him at least 20 years in jail!

     • Well GZ’s lawyer will not be able to say he has a clean record and has never been in trouble… I’m just saying that sometimes that works to decrease sentences.

119. I think the keys might be someone else’s.

     Look at 347 in the other blog, the map one. .

     Why are we using two blog pages now?

     • If you click the date/time of the comment, you’ll get its direct link.

       The first blog posting was taking forever to load and there was a ton of content so posting 2 was added. It was intended for – and currently being used as – evidence analysis and court proceedings. If this case goes to trial, I’ll probably introduce a 3rd posting.

120. NLME,

     Your comment:

     May 23, 2012 at 9:21 pm

     “Meaning, there were no Zimmerman calls to/from him that night. If there were calls – let’s say around 7 pm – Taaffe definitely wouldn’t be talking. With Zimmerman’s vehicle supposedly never investigated, we’ll never know if the Neighborhood Watch used CB radios (unless somebody speaks up) and that’s a shame.”

     Sorry, I’m not aware of any official call records being released other than 911, police call logs, and Trayvon’s girlfriend testimony. I guess I’ve got to get caught up with the latest.

     If you have a link to the confessed murderer’s personal calls/text please post. Thanks. I do remember the DA questioning him during the bond hearing about calls/texts, etc. but the judge kept overruling him.

     Wendy Dorival can probably shed some light on whether or not CB radios were even supposed to be used. She has publicly stated CB radio’s are issued to members of SPD and Volusia County Sheriff’s program called “Citizens On Patrol” but the volunteers ride 2 to a car with an officer.

     “In Sanford,” she said, “watch groups are not even supposed to make the rounds. That is the job of another kind of volunteer organization, Citizens on Patrol, whose members are selected and trained by the police and who drive the streets in a specially marked vehicle. Members of that group,” Ms. Dorival said, “are armed only with a radio.” ….

     “Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority.”

     http://www.news-record.com/blog/2012/03/23/entry/not_in_the_spirit_of_a_community_watch

     I have not be able to locate any information that proves the confessed murderer was ever appointed to C.O.P.. I do know the Sheriff’s department states it does background and drivers checks on perspective volunteers.

     He had just been chosen the NHW Captain by the HOA at Retreat around 9/2011, about 5 months before he murdered Trayvon. If he had a CB radio(s) maybe like his pistol, he purchased it (them) himself, or maybe he stole one, or two.

     “…the Seminole County sheriffs’ office stated that it had no record of any 911 or nonemergency calls made by Taaffe.”

     http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html

     Remember, this is the same Frank Taaffe who had no problem telling the world, on more than one occasion, his bff SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD a gun while on watch duty, and whom he has referred to as someone having “anger issues”.

     Frank even stated that he would never carry, nor did he ever carry a gun when he was NHW Captain. He said if he carried anything it would have been mace or a taser, but never a gun (all 3 are in violation of NHW policies).

     It just seems as though he’s trying to throw his bff under the bus, despite the impression he gives that he’s defending his bff. Maybe Frank’s trying to be indicted for conspiracy to commit murder?

     http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/03/24/zimmerman-was-not-following-neighborhood-watch-rules
     http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html

     http://www.examiner.com/article/george-zimmerman-violated-the-rules-of-neighborhood-watch-by-concealing-a-weapon

     T. G.

     • Correct — no call records have been released. My assumption is that if Taaffe had any sort of documented contact with Zimmerman shortly before/after the shooting, he’d not be seen as much in the media.

       • I agree. I just have this sneaky suspicion that it’s a case of “Let me get you, before you get me”.

         There is definitely “a method to his madness”. Then again, maybe it’s just a matter of him having a severe case of narcissism. Heck, even Joe Oliver went back under his rock rather quickly.

         Yeah, I know we all like to have our 15 minutes of fame from time to time, but I just don’t think he’s running his mouth for that purpose only.

         I have noticed that we’ve not heard much from him since his name made the witness list. He’ll probably be called to testify for the prosecution. Whoa boy! I can just smell an indictment coming.

         I hope the prosecution tracks his daughter down and get her to testify.

       • I wouldn’t be so sure, he is not a genius, have you ever listened to him? he seems to be just speaking out of anger all the time. I wondered how close him and Zimmerman are because Zimmerman calls him Mr. Taaffe, how many of us call or friends Mr or Mrs, Ms? when he released the recording George left he calls him Mr Taaffe as though they were casual acquaintances but if so why is Frank vouching so for him? Zimmerman also mentions his son as though he just died but I researched it and he died about 4 years ago, Taaffe even mentions this in interviews by saying he even offerred his condolences about his son, well yeah about 4 years too late! what did he bring that up for? I researched it because I wanted to know if the son was murdered but no he died at his own hands. This is a odd couple. Taaffe is as racist as they come and we know this by statements on television, so why would he make friends with a man of black and spanish heritage? Like I said Taaffe is a criminal and has a criminal mind, he sees himself making out like a bandit and that is why he is running his big trap. I think he could care less if Zimmerman fries for this crime. zimmerman and Taaffe were bound together under this neighborhood watch thing, it seems to me e would call his mentor when he saw Trayvon Martin walking, I dont think he had time to call after the 911 was placed but I can see him calling when he spotted him on the property. I can tell you one thing, I would have to know my friend and know them well before I went running my mouth to try and clear them of murder.

         • Exactly – that Zimmerman voicemail to Taaffe was so weird given they were neighbors and friends. Glad I accidentally stumbled upon Taaffe’s address last month.

           • But let me remind you why it was so weird. I had just finished posting speculation that maybe someone had called GZ to alert him that TM was on his way back from the store. There was a little discussion, some thought it unlikely, and we were mostly still musing about TM entering the front gate and whether or not it was closed at 7pm like the promotional materials say.

             So that made your discovery that Taaffe was right along the shortcut a real eye opener.

       • Unless he feels that GZ is getting all of the attention and that he deserves part of it!

       • Theresa (riisey),

         Oh, I definitely agree. Genius, he’s definitely not. I have listened to him, and you’re right. He starts out trying to play it cool and professional until the interviewers like Nancy and Soledad start pushing his buttons. Then he starts getting loud, aggressive, rude and overtalking other guests, all while turning beet red in the face. Just a nasty, arrogant, ignorant, son of gun.

         Well, even now that I’m a grandparent, I still refer to my elders as “Mr. & Mrs.”, and consider them older friends. But then again, none of them have the serious character defects and flaws of Taaffe.

         I think the “Mr. Taaffe” thing may be due to the confessed murderer’s relationship with Taaffe’s children. And that voicemail game, I agree with our fellow commentor, Jo, who said it was obviously orchestrated.

         I posted a link on this blog about the message Taaffe’s daughter posted on a blog about the voicemail. She was not pleased with the actions of her father or the confessed murderer. Like you, Meredith even says her dad had no business vouching for the confessed murderer, or bringing her deceased brother into this.

         Some people, regardless of their ethnicity, are in total denial about their heritage, and will do just about anything to fit in with what’s considered to be the dominate, elitist white class in order to be accepted. Unfortunately, amongst these sorts are die-hard racists and hate groups.

         I definitely agree with you about Taaffe being “a criminal with a criminal mind and could care less if the confessed murderer fries”. That’s basically what I just finished posting. His goal, by seeking his 15 minutes of fame, is to throw the confessed murderer under the bus, before the confessed murderer throws him under. I strongly believe the confessed murderer knows some very incriminating information about Taaffe and his gang.

         I’ve posted several links on this blog about Frank Taaffe’s drug and criminal history, as well as his son, Victor’s criminal record, son William’s drug and criminal history, including Joe Oliver’s which isn’t nearly as bad by comparison.

         I’ve even posted William’s MySpace Page where he states, “He likes committing hate crimes, they’re a blast”. And the nerve of Frank Taaffe to refer to an innocent, unarmed child, Trayvon Martin, as a thug. Now we all know who the real thug(s) is/are.

         There are some eerie similarities in the crimes William committed and the confessed murderer. Both were arrested for assaulting ATF LEO’s. In both of their cases adjudication was withheld. Even Robert Zimmerman, Jr. served time for a violent crime. Wonder why daddy judge didn’t fix his case?

         One of the reasons I posted that information is because I strongly believe this murder investigation is bigger than just the confessed murder, and includes other players.

         I don’t think any of us commenting here would actually go on national tv and play a private “orchestrated” voice message, tell the world our friend has anger management issues and should not have been carrying a gun while on watch duty. Maybe we’d go to the police once our conscious got the best of us, but would certainly wouldn’t rat our friend out publicly while pretending to be a friend coming to his defense.

         As I’ve mentioned before, according to Wendy Dorival, SPD, NHW and Seminole Sheriff’s Office, they never received a 911 or Non-emergency call from Frank Taaffe when he was watch captain. It’s almost as though “suspicious black males” weren’t a concern, or didn’t start showing up until the confessed murderer was appointed watch captain/coordinator. It’s almost as though Frank now had somebody to do all his bidding.

         T. G.

     • @Sleuth –

       Exactly. To get in with the “in” crowd, gotta do their bidding. I’ve seen this type of behavior more than I care to remember. The middle-eastern co-worker put the nail in the coffin of Zimmerman’s character and how Zimmerman’s willing to bully someone he thinks he’ll get a high five for among the “in crowd” Zimmerman hopes to join. He got fired. This time, he’s charged with murder 2.

       Also agree that he’s not a genius.

121. Hi bcc:

     The still pic on your 5/23 update can’t show GZ’s truck. I’m pretty sure his wife moved it during the wee small of the 27th. Moreover, these pics were not taken on the 27th, which was dry. The next days with measurable precip in Sanford after the 26th, were 3/4, 3/6, and 3/10. So these pics could have been taken no earlier than 3/4, and may even have been taken later.

     • Thank you for the comment!

       Interesting. And, I don’t doubt what you’ve mentioned at all but do you have a link that states the crime scene pics weren’t taken the morning of the 27th (when it could have still been wet)?

       Maybe the pics came from the reenactment? So, Zimmerman parked his vehicle where it was that night? And investigators did the reenactment on the next rainy day?

       • No I don’t know when the pics were taken, but if you look at the precip records for the Ravena Weather Station in Sanford, it’s clear that it could not have been as wet as it is in those pictures on 2/27. And hasn’t it been reliably reported that they did do the ‘re-enactment’ on the 27th?

     • Mrs Z may have moved the car, we don’t know when.

       She had her own car (her father in law, GZ’s dad, said so at the bail hearing) which she used for delivering a change of clothes for GZ at the police station.

       There is no evidence from the police about her being allowed, or not, to speak with GZ. So she may or may not have known where it was (tho not hard to find in a 3-street estate). She’d have to walk from her place to get it, so unlikely she’d do it in the dark and rain (UNLESS he had a chance to tell her to move it in a hurry).

       If they were allowed to talk and the police were listening, he’d probably not want to alert them he had the car there, if up to then they were assuming he was on foot the whole time.

       Did she have a spare key? did he leave the key in the ignition? was it only moved next day when he was home?

       IS IT A HONDA????

       • It looks like a Honda Pilot if picture 2 is Zimmerman’s. Although that is only what’s been speculated over at another blog (talkleft.com).

         Picture from talkleft here: http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/1211trucks.jpg

         I found this to show what a Honda Pilot looks like from the rear:
         

122. In regard to the point where you surmise Trayvon entered The Retreat on your maps. Google street view shows this gap between the building has been blocked with trellises, perhaps to discourage people from walking through there. In the pic, they appear to be easily passable. However, a person walking East on Oregon could just as readily make for the gap on the other side of that diagonal building, which has no obstructions. It isn’t much farther if the pedestrian begins cutting that way across the parking lot of the apartments to the West of the retreat.

     And if Trayvon Martin DID enter the retreat via that route, from the next gap south and west of the path you show, he would have walked right past the unit belonging to — yup, you guessed it — Francis B Taaffe, He lives on the end unit on the Southwest end of that building… Sure would like to see GZ’s phone records….

     • Indeed! Check out the update from 4/26 here:

       Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman Crime Scene Map Analyzed

       Accidentally stumbling upon Taaffe’s address was EERIE.

     • BINGO!! JACKPOT!! I am interested in the phone records as well because I have said all alone that Taaffe gives me the creeps, there is something about him that stinks.

123. I am curious to know if this neighborhood called and asked for the police to make rounds or more rounds to their neighborhood since they were being burglarized so much? My guess is probably not seeing how Sanford police had 8 burglaries documented in 196 days for this neighborhood. Taaffe being the liar he is said that the burglaries were perpetrated by all black males when the Sanford police department could not even validate this seeing how they stated that 8 burglaries were committed, 4 resulted in arrests and the other 4 did not and they did not have a clue of the race of the perpetrators of those 4 crimes. It is interesting how they claim to know so much about the crime in the area. Taaffe even tells a story of Zimmerman saving his house from being burglarized by calling 911 when he saw a black male go into a window that Taaffe himself says he left open. Taaffe forgot to mention in the interviews that when the police arrived they did not find a disturbance at his home nor did they find the individual that so called broke in. The unusual thing about this is that it seems that Taaffe and Zimmerman had a plan to secure their neighborhood by setting the background for killings. I would think someone that is a thief like Taaffe would be slow to call someone a thief, thug etc, but he is an idiot. He doesn’t think about the things he says. He has some real issues. I am sure drawing Zimmerman into his world was the icing on the cake for him, he could get George to commit the crimes in which he himself was to chicken to do. He has a history of violence, he was facing foreclosure, he was a dead beat dad, his wife issued restraining orders on him. he also did 9 months for theft, and for violating the restraining order placed on him. How many people in the neighborhood saw criminal activity, I wonnder? Taaffe himself told Soledad Obrien that they never mentioned the thefts in their community meetings and race was never brought up either, so if this was so, how concerned were the neighbors with crime in their neighborhood. I live in a low crime area but we still have neighborhood watch, but ours is different it is just neighbors watching out for neighbors, if you see something suspicious call the police, who specialize in this type of activity. The problem with people supporting Zimmerman is that they act as though you have to have a bachelors degree to be a neighborhood watchman. They keep saying it like it gave him GOD like privileges. I have figured out that they have nothing else to say so they keep talking about that. It is unfair to say that a neighborhood watchman or anyone can just start following people. I wonder how people would like to be followed in the dark, I told one zimmerman supporter that he would turn into a Ninja to protect himself and he said he would have just answered Zimmermans questions, we know that is a blatant lie because we as humans in a crisis situation either fight or flight, you would not allow someone to chase you down without running or fighting it is inbred in your genetics. I took enough A&P classes to know this. How many of us when startled by a can falling or a cat jumping out , RUNS!! some freeze and get ready to FIGHT!! I can tell you I would fight for my life if I have exhausted my ability to run and I believe that is what Trayvon Martin did, the evidence points more and more to this as a fact. Omara has become a one note wonder with his answering of every question by saying, I havent looked at the evidence yet or I have read over it yet, bla bla bla. A blind man can see that Omara went from pro bono to I can charge in the millions for a reason. I remember when he had his first television appearance and spoke out for Zimmerman, a reporter asked about fees and he said he was pro bono due to Zimmerman being of meager means and he also said the state of Florida would be paying as well. The reporter asked about the money from Zimmermans website and he said he knew nothing about it. O mara has to pull stunts like leaking info to help his client, how pitiful.

     • wow can’t believe i just read this, i must have missed it before. It’s really interesting what you say about the crime in the neighbourhood, i’d be interested in any links about the break in at taffes that supposedly happened but where the police found nothing, and of the meetings where no crime or suspicious people were mentioned. I remember reading somewhere that crime seemed to actually increase since zimmerman started his neighbourhood watch, or perhaps it was just before. I wish i remember where i read this. It would also be interesting to know if it was only Zimmerman and Taffe that happened to be seeing all this suspicious stuff all of a sudden happening. I also read an article somewhere (i should save these things) where someone had a break in, spoke to the police, and the next day George Zimmerman was knocking at her door talking to her about security and giving her his number. I kind of wondered how he knew. I might try and find that link.

       • i found the link http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425 while zimmermans actions were very kind and it was nice of him to help this woman…this part stuck out for me.

         “After police left Bertalan, George Zimmerman arrived at the front door in a shirt and tie, she said. He gave her his contact numbers on an index card and invited her to visit his wife if she ever felt unsafe. He returned later and gave her a stronger lock to bolster the sliding door that had been forced open.”

         It was very nice of him to show support but how did he know? Do the police make a habit of contacting him to let him know? Did he hear sirens and look for the police car (there are only about 6 streets so wouldn’t be hard)? or did he have a CB radio and hear about it that way? It might be completely innocent but the way the article describes it, it sounds a bit odd.

       • Jo,
         Sorry it took me so long to reply. I agree the entire situation with this person just seems strange.To others he seems like a do gooder and wants to help, but to me he is too eager to play the role of a cop. Remember he rode along with the police and had the audacity to call them lazy, etc. He is so caught up in his ficticious world where he is the super hero that I doubt there is any reality of how things really work in his narrow mind. I am sorry but to me they need to see about his psych history. The courts should at least ask for a psych evaluation because he has the characteristics and mannerisms of a bipolar/ schizophrenic personality. I wonder which side of him shot young mr Martin. The mother of Zimmerman is rarely brought up and I wonder why she has not really spoken out. The judge seems as though he has gotten really good at training his son on how to avoid being caught when you have committed a crime or being accused of it. I think dad should have stopped intervening a long time ago,then we most likely wouldnt be having these conversations. Weall know he wanted to be branded top cop but what I dont understand is why is it Zimmerman being 28 years of age and so determined had not met his goal as of yet? It is not that hard to join the military, his family had an article online that said he was in rotc for a few years and wanted to join but I see he didnt, he tried to be relevant by becoming a security guard but that didnt work so what and why has this seemingly normal man not accomplished his goal of being a police officer or a marine, etc? I know he finally started taking classes in criminal justice but it just seems odd that he is so obsessed with justice and so goal oriented but has not managed to do much with this intensity but target certain people, organize neighborhood watch and make friends with likes of Taaffe. There is something seriously wrong with Zimmerman and I hope the prosecution can figure it out. Bottom line they portray him as the neighborhood good guy, he mentors children, helps his neighbors and is a good son and brother. I am clueless!!

124. Sleuth,

     I have to make a few corrections to your post as reply to 117.

     1. Austin is not exactly the only witness out that night. He is indeed the only one that was not at his porch when he witness the scuffle. However, there were at least two other witnesses out at 7:16 during the scuffle. 1) John (1221 TTL) was at his porch and actually yelled at TM & GZ about calling police, and 2) the lady that I position at 2821 RVC (the one who cared about an elderly person) went out to walk her dog and she was at her back porch we she saw John and a person on the ground. None of the two saw Austin and his boxer. At 7:17, right after the shooting, there were more people going out. First Selma & Mary (2831 RVC) were out early enough to see GZ on top of TM. A minute later (~7:18), the photographer with a flash light was noticed by many 911 including Mary Cutcher. Again, no mention of Austin and his dog. For that reason, I believe Austin never been that close to the scuffle. I personally position him south of 2821 RVC near the cut through to RVC. From there, no one would have noticed him.

     2. Your quote of the teacher’s statement is close indeed. She exactly says:
     “No, I was just watching my TV. And this is my back window. And then, you know, I heard people talking out there. And I was kind of like ‘Oh gosh! Who they?’ you know it was pouring rain. Why would they be outside? Like people walking their dog or something? And then I… And then I heard more talking voices and I… I did[n’t] open my window. And then I guess… It looks like I saw ‘Oh there’s two men talking to each other or it was like wrestling each other’ and then I, then I heard the man saying ‘Help! Help!’. You know, I would have helped but I couldn’t! […] He’s walking the police Officer [???] the person … away that [???]. ” [6’07”]. My understanding is that she heard the 1st loud argument and thought about people walking dogs. However, she didn’t watch before she heard more voices. At that point she just saw 2 men on the grass. Again no Austin. You can read her written statement too @ http://www.scribd.com/doc/93960335/Documents#fullscreen on pages 88-92. Again no statement of Austin and his dog.

     Police interview of Austin is in the same document on pg 41. It really shows he saw very little and was to far to make sense of what he saw. I mean, his interpretation was really off topic. However, images from the various news report often show Austin walking the path from the south or Austin / Cheryl / Sierra at one of the cut path between house blocks. This is why I position Austin south to the crime scene. In one image, you can see the end of a house block across the street the unpaved way leads to. From googlemap, the only possible cut way with such view is the one leading to RVC. Finally, Austin states the scuffle was 20-25 ft from his home. That would be 2811 RVC. However there is no Cheryl Brown (austin’s mom) owner in the whole complex. So, she must be renting.

     Below are my refs:

     http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/68844192/News/Video:-Teen-witnessed-part-of-Trayvon-Zimmerman-confrontation

     • Hi tchoupi,

       Thanks for responding.

       I know that was a really long thread. If you go back and check post #117, you’ll notice I was responding specifically to NLME’s inquiry (at least I thought I was) regarding the public call made by Austin’s sister, and I mentioned the former teacher’s public call to 911, that were originally released back in March.

       If you click on the link I provided in that post, it will take you to “The Grio” blog to the 8 original calls. I was not at all referring to anything having to do with statements from the latest media dump released this month.

       I have gone over the media dump over and over again, reviewing the various updates of police narratives, witness statements, forensics, evidence, etc.and will probably be doing that for a while (just so much information to digest.)

       Here’s what actually transpired in my communication with NLME.

       NLME’s Inquiry:

       “”No Longer Mass Emailing” Says:

       May 25, 2012 at 8:08 pm
       Is Austin’s call public? For the life of me, I can’t remember it. Or, was his call made by his sister? I remember a younger female voice that basically just pleaded for somebody to show up quickly.”

       MY RESPONSE TO NLME:

       “Sleuth Says:

       May 26, 2012 at 4:52 pm
       NLME,

       Yes, Austin/sister’s call is still public. I just checked the link. It includes all of the originally released 911 witness calls.

       If Austin has given any other statements since the one with mom and attorney being present, the SP and O’Mara may even try to keep his statement sealed as long as possible. Remember, he is a minor.

       Just find it interesting that Austin’s sister places the 911 call and tells the dispatcher, “My brother saw someone who got shot behind our house”. The dispatcher asks her, “Did you see it?” She says, “No, my brother saw it”.

       YOUR COMMENT: (NLME’s comment)

       “I remember a younger female voice that basically just pleaded for somebody to show up quickly.”

       MY RESPONSE TO NLME:

       “I think that’s the 30yo female caller who saw “a guy who was on top with a white t-shirt”.

       http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-grio/46771333/#46771333

       T. G.

       • Not to overcomplicate it but Austin’s sister is, indeed, the one I was talking about.

         My brother, yada yada, send somebody soon, I’m not providing any worthwhile info but we need help, and then the call ends.

         This is obviously 100% paraphrased but it’s what I remember from the first (and subsequently last) time I listened to the witness calls. I really should listen to them all again though. Soon enough…

       • NLME’S COMMENTS TO ME:

         “No Longer Mass Emailing” Says:

         May 26, 2012 at 11:13 pm
         Not to overcomplicate it but Austin’s sister is, indeed, the one I was talking about.

         My brother, yada yada, send somebody soon, I’m not providing any worthwhile info but we need help, and then the call ends.

         This is obviously 100% paraphrased but it’s what I remember from the first (and subsequently last) time I listened to the witness calls. I really should listen to them all again though. Soon enough…

         ====================================================

         NLME,

         Ok, that’s what I thought. You were requesting information about the “old”, “original” 911 calls released of Austin’s sister’s call, and not the latest media dump.

         MY RESPONSE: (not in a snarky tone, taking your line)

         IMHO, Austin’s sister does provides very worthwhile information, and so does Austin. The call does not end when his sister requests “help”, that’s actually where the call begins.

         The dispatcher actually asks her specific questions before he asks to speak with her brother. And there is definitely a reason the dispatcher ask Austin if he knew the victim.

         I think we sometimes have a tendency to confuse short conversation or responses as being insignificant. so we ignore or dismiss them. Sort of like the confessed murderer ignoring and dismissing the dispatcher’s order “We don’t need you to do that” i.e. “not to follow” Trayvon. A very short, but very significant request. To be quite frank, elaborately drawn out statements are sometimes suspect, at least to me.

         Keep in mind, these ARE children, it is not unusual for their responses to be short, and to the point. And from what Mom reported, her daughter (don’t know which one) called her on the phone, crying and scared, as she (Mom) was returning from Walmart.

         If you still think Austin and his sister’s information “isn’t worthwhile” after going back and actually listsening to the tape, you’re definitely entitled to your perceptions.

         However, I really don’t think State investigators will see it that way. In matters of due process, every witness statement counts, regardless whether we, or even the witnesses, see it as significant or not. Again, just MHO.

         http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-grio/46771333/#46771333

         http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1221799.ece

         http://www.rxmuscle.com/articles/the-ruthless-report/5465-the-ruthless-report-cheryl-brown-calm-in-the-eye-of-a-storm.html

         T. G.

         • Yeah – I definitely need to listen to all the calls again.

       • White T-shirt is Zim in my mind, because his jacket is open and all witnesses can see is a white shirt in the dark…

         • Keep in mind: Per “John’s” audio recording, the neighbors did talk to each other immediately following the shooting.

           One says white tshirt and then everybody thinks/says maybe there was a person in a white tshirt? That, or there was a person with a white tshirt out in about during the shooting.

       • NMLE, I understand, but on some of the 911 calls, people said they saw a”white t-shirt”(the elderly lady, I think). Clearly, they were speaking of GZ. I agree that GZ contaminated statements and the talking together further did so. Clearly, in the last seconds GZ was on top or standing and I am beginning to think that the first flashlight is GZ’s.

         • Don’t get me wrong, I fully agree.

           The white tshirt comment on the 911 tapes – as I also recall, it was the elderly lady – has confused me for months. It definitely could have just been Zimmerman’s undershirt (assuming his jacket came partially/fully off during the scuffle).

       • NLME,

         It’s the 30 year old female caller from the original 8 released 911 calls that states near the end of her conversation with the dispatcher, the man on top wore a white t-shirt.

         Although she sounds like a kid, she told the dispatcher she was 30yo.

         http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-grio/46771333/#46771333

         T. G.

         • That’s right — all I had to do was look at Tchoupi’s map. Ugh!

           

           Looks like she’s next door neighbors with “John.” Does anybody know what “John” was wearing that night?

           Correct me if I’m wrong but the 30 year old was the only one that said she saw somebody wearing a white tshirt until “John’s” witness recording, correct?

       • NLME,

         “No Longer Mass Emailing” Says:

         May 27, 2012 at 6:19 pm
         “Does anybody know what “John” was wearing that night?

         Correct me if I’m wrong but the 30 year old was the only one that said she saw somebody wearing a white tshirt….”

         =================================

         My response:

         According to one female witness audio statement from the media dump, John was wearing a black or dark colored shirt.

         Remember, John said his patio/porch light was on, so there’s a good chance the female witness was able to see him standing out on his porch under the light.

         T. G.

       • NLME, (RE: AUSTIN’S STATEMET)

         Ooops, I forgot to add, The City of Sanford requested that the DOJ conduct a parallel investigation into the SPD. Amongst the areas they’re investigating is witness tampering, so that may also be a reason Austin’s mom may have retained an attorney.

         She believes the detective asked her son leading questions, and SPD reported that Austin said he saw a person in a red shirt. However, Austin NEVER told the dispatcher that.

         Remember, in Austin’s statement to the 911 dispatcher he DID say he saw a person on the ground who was yelling for help (2x) while he was out walking his dog. He heard a shot and ran back in his house.

         http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/trayvon-martin-case-department-of-justice-to-investigate-2266580.html

         T. G.

       • “No Longer Mass Emailing” Says:

         May 27, 2012 at 6:19 pm
         That’s right — all I had to do was look at Tchoupi’s map. Ugh!

         

         Looks like she’s next door neighbors with “John.” Does anybody know what “John” was wearing that night?

         Correct me if I’m wrong but the 30 year old was the only one that said she saw somebody wearing a white tshirt until “John’s” witness recording, correct?
         =================================================

         MY REPLY:

         Yes, you’re correct. Once FDLE and Florida’s SAO interviewed him, he placed emphasis on a LIGHTER color shirt. I’ve extracted their statements specific to the color of clothing and posted them below.

         FEBRUARY 26, 2012, Witness #3

         A 30yo w/m female (witness #3) told the 911 dispatcher “the man on top was wearing a WHITE T-SHIRT”. I don’t think she was ever interviewd by a detective on the night of the murder.

         MARCH 19, 2012. 3:19 pm

         On 3/19/12, she told John Batchelor, Special Agent, FDLE and Jim Post, SAO 18th judicial, she was confused about the color of the shirt, and states to the 2 gentlemen, “There was no guy in a white shirt, was there? (seeking confirmation or denial).

         This may be due to media coverage, information on the internet, etc. that showed pictures of what the confessed murderer was wearing (red jacket w/some black, with light colored shirt underneath) and public descriptions of what Trayvon was wearing.

         Despite the admission she might be confused, she adamantly states to the gentlemen , “…cause it was obvious, it’s the only thing that poped, there was no other color”(referring to the white t-shirt).

         To the best of my recollection, she stated she was too afraid to go outside, but instead, she called her family, her mom. To me, this is an indication that she never went outside to see what anybody was wearing, hence, not having any influence or preconceived notions to confuse her observations.

         *Note: It’s been reported the confessed murderer’s jacket was wet, and had grass/grass stains on it. Some of us don’t see grass/grass stains on it on any of the media dump photos (maybe somebody washed them off with Gain detergent? LOL!!!)

         Perhaps witness #3 says it was a WHITE t-shirt because the confessed murderer removed his jacket and threw or placed it on the wet ground before the alleged scuffle?

         FEBRUARY 26, 2012, Witness #6, 911 Call

         Now Mr. OMG! Holy Smoke! w/m, (witness #6), never told the 911 dispatcher what the person on the top or bottom was wearing or what color they were wearing.

         FEBRUARY 26, 2012, 9:09 pm, Witness #6, Interview w/SPD

         Witness #6 told SPD lead detective, Chris Serino:

         1. Hispanic guy with a red sweat shirt on the ground yelling for help.
         2. Yes, that was the one getting beat up, and he was the one with the red sweater on.*

         *Witness #6 says this in response to Det. Serino asking, “The person calling for help, could that have been the person underneath, you think?

         FEBRUARY 27, 2012

         The day after the murder, witness #6 hid behind his front door while speaking with a reporter using only the name “John”. He told the reporter the person on the bottom wore a RED SWEATER. Witness #6 might have spoken with the news reporter who is said to have been on the crime scene shortly after police arrived.

         The description of the red shirt/sweater starts to morph after the interview with Det. Serino and news reporter, or actually AFTER the State agents and FDLE investigators start asking the right questions.
         Perhaps he was influenced by Det. Serino.

         MARCH 20, 2012, 6:10 pm

         “John”, witness #6, interview with John Batchelor, Special Agent, FDLE and Jim Post, SAO 18th judicial.

         These are some of the statements made by witness #6 regarding what color the person on the bottom was wearing.

         1. The man on the bottom had on a LIGHT COLOR SHIRT or sweatshirt with some red in it.

         2. I could see a man in a LIGHTER color shirt on the bottom.

         3. Then I noticed a guy in a LIGHTER color shirt or sweat shirt, whatever he was wearing. I think it was a red color or white color.

         4. A lighter color shirt with some red on it, but it was white, a red or white shirt.

         5. I could see a man in a LIGHTER color shirt on the bottom straddling…

         MARCH 3/26/12

         Witness #6 tells Bernie de la Rionda, he’s nervous, the interviews have been stressful.

         Tina Taylor, one of our fellow commenters, is so right. Witness #6, John, is just too exhausting. I’ll sure be glad when he gets a story and sticks with it

         T. G.

       • “No Longer Mass Emailing” Says:

         May 27, 2012 at 6:19 pm
         That’s right — all I had to do was look at Tchoupi’s map. Ugh!

         

         Looks like she’s next door neighbors with “John.” Does anybody know what “John” was wearing that night?

         Correct me if I’m wrong but the 30 year old was the only one that said she saw somebody wearing a white tshirt until “John’s” witness recording, correct?
         ========================================================

         YOU STATED: “Looks like she’s next door neighbors with “John.” Does anybody know what “John” was wearing that night?”

         MY REPLY: During her interview with FDLE Special Agent, John Batchelor and Jim Post of the 18th judicial on 3/20/12, witness #1 was asked:

         “Do you know what he was wearing?” (referring to witness #6, “John”)

         She stated:

         “If I recall, it was something dark on the top, and it looked like sweat pants on the bottom, if I remember correctly.”

         The question was a result of them ascertaining which house was witness #6 house.

         She referred to witness #6 as her neighbor who lived across the street from her. She said his house was the one with the back porch screened in, and said his house was the 2nd house over, across from her.

         She also states she saw him when he came out and said, “Hey, what’s going on? I’m going to call 911?”

         So, I think she verifies at least that part of witness #6 story, and that he was not likely wearing a white t-shirt. BTW, she told them she doesn’t know him personally, but sees him coming and going from that house.

         T. G.

         • As always, Sleuth — you’re nailing it. I think somebody mentioned a witness saying “John” was wearing a dark shirt but you included some incredibly important details from the witness’ testimony. Thank you (again)!

     • Gee… Where would GZ have been standing, for Austin not to see him?

       Obviously, there’s no time for the person on the ground to get up, fire a shot and get back down.

       So, if it was GZ on the ground, and he needed two hands to fire the gun, then it follows that he’d be firing at a standing TM and from some distance.
       This can only mean that it was TM on the ground yelling, getting shot and staying there.

       From the narratives we’ve read and heard, we know that the body was moved. But, the question is, if the shot was from so close as near contact, why wouldn’t Austin have seen two people?

       • Are we referencing the audio version of Austin’s witness statement? I still haven’t listened to any of the witness statements other than “John’s” (via iPhone friendly YouTube).

         • It’s a composite of witness statements. I keep trying to bring things together to see if… Well, as we know, witnesses are seeing the same thing from different angles, and they are seeing different slices of the timeline.

           Note how the GZ story doesn’t include John or anyone else for that matter. So, read the witness statement and, assuming that events flowed from one event to another, try to figure out which portion of the timeline they are viewing.

           In this case, just before the shot is fired until a few seconds afterwards, we know that the scene of the shooting doesn’t change very much. So, anyone who sees it, very close to the shot fired, should be seeing both people, GZ and TM very close together. But that seems not to be the case.

           We know that for GZ’s story to work, they both have to be very close together until the shot is fired and perhaps until very shortly afterwards, because it takes a few seconds at least, to get up off the ground, especially if someone is on top of you. You don’t just magically get up on your feet.

           So, if John left them with GZ on the bottom, but the shot can’t be taken from that position, then either one or both of them got up. But Austin saw only one person on the ground. It could not have been GZ, because GZ would have had to have fired from that position, the shot comes before this person on the ground has time to get up. So, does that mean that TM got up off GZ? If so, then GZ could not have hit him with a shot fired from this position.

           So, it had to be GZ who got up and left TM on the ground. Because, that’s the only way GZ could get into a position, where he could take the shot as recorded.

           Of course this means that GZ wasn’t being threatened but took the shot “at will”.
           Notice that the last person to view the scene, before the shot was fired, sees only one person on the ground. That, according to GZ’s story should never have occurred until after the shot.

       • Lonnie,

         Austin is not the only witness to see just one person on the ground. the witness who cared for an elderly person also noticed just one person on the ground. More than that, she noticed only one person on the ground right at the time when John was warning TM & GZ that he will call 911, meaning that we know TM was on top.

         It was really dark down there that night. Austin and the other witness were too far from the crime scene for a clear view. That’s the only conclusion we can make, and I believe it is the right one.

125. Yes I understand that not having a previous criminal record can reduce a sentence but not when u murder an unarmed child! The same way that GZ did not have a right to follow/shoot Tray the store clerk did not have a right to shoot Latasha! That whole incident was caught on video and unfortunately this was not. And the fact that witnesses have changed their statements creates more reasonable doubt.I really hpe GZ gets a strong conviction but I am seriously doubting it.

     • It’s very hard to believe a gated community such as that doesn’t have camera’s

126. And not to mention the judge woudlnt even increase his bond after hearing he lied about his funds.

     • Yes, I still wonder about that and why have rules and take oaths at all… Apparently, this guy is going to run a loose court. Either that or he is already showing some bias toward the defense. I think that it shows that GZ has little respect for laws.

127. Witness6, John, says after the shot, he saw Trayvon Martin’s dead body lying the ground in a “sprawl” and goes on to describe the sprawl in detail — one arm up above his head, one arm spread out elsewhere. If so, it means Zimmerman not only jumped on top of Trayvon Martin after he shot him, it means he moved/tamped with the body before the police arrived since the police found the body with Trayvon Martin’s hands underneath him.

     The interview video is here:

     @10:20, John says mentions the “sprawl”. He furthers his description of Trayvon Martin’s sprawled out body beginnin at the 34:07 mark.

     • Same video of Witness 6 (John) confirms that he heard no punching noises or banging head in the ground noises at 52:20.

       MMA style described at 40:47 — he clarifieds that he doesn’t mean punching, but instead means the person is in a straddling position on top and in control

     • Wow, thank you! That was by far one of the most revealing pieces of evidence that I have heard… Clearly, John is not a good witness for the defense anymore. So no banging of the head onto the concrete at all? Clearly they weren’t even on the concrete but for a few seconds. Also the smoking gun…. from what I see Zimmerman would never give up the chance to play the victim here. If he wasn’t harassing this kid why would he leave out the fact that this fight started in another spot from where they ended up on the ground, because it went toward Martins house and clearly, GZ was the aggressor. Also I see where murder 2 comes in. He started the incident and gets this kid to start having to defend himself and then pulls out his gun. He treated this kid like less than an animal, as if he had no rights. Well planned on his part for his self defense plea. So my question is, were the first flashlights the cops or neighbors? I suspect that GZ went through TM pockets looking for a gun. I also think that he held onto the kid tearing his button off then stuck it into his pocket later. If they find his finger prints on items in TM pockets, he will not be able to explain it away.

       • Looks like audio of the witness accounts has hit YouTube, eh?

         [Didn’t watch the above video yet.]

     • “John’s” statement around the 9:45 mark of the YouTube clip posted here interests me:

       bcclist.com/2012/05/14/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-court-proceedings-and-trial/#comment-16635

       “John” said he locked the door, dialed 911, and as soon as he “picked up on 911…a couple seconds later as we were about to make our way upstairs…it sounded like a rock hit a window. I’ve never heard a gunshot before but now knowing that was the gunshot that I heard…” as his fiancée and he were running upstairs.

       I didn’t hear a shot or rock hit a window during his 911 call. I didn’t hear any sound of exertion from running up the stairs during his 911 call.

       Did he misspeak regarding either?

       • I believe his 911 call started 1 full minute after the shot – so that timing isn’t right.

         • So, it sounds like “John” is GROSSLY off regarding the timing of when the shot occurred vs. when he was connected with 911? Meaning, not just a little tad bit off like 10-20 seconds. That is, if this one minute after the shot timing is correct. Do you have a link or way to confirm it?

           Recap: “John” is brave enough to be near his patio door when telling Zimmerman and Trayvon to break it up. Seconds later, he’s back inside, locking the door, calling the cops, running upstairs, and then hears a shot. What spooked him? Nothing spooky is ever mentioned in his witness account other than the shot.

           “John” actually sounded more convincing to me this time around when I listened to his 911 call (below) for the second time — the first time being two months ago.

           But, the shot’s timing compared to when he was connected to 911 from each of his witness statements (apparently) does not add up and he was still way too weird about saying he’d NEVER, EVER be outside helping during his 911 call (though he admits that he tried to break up the scuffle by yelling during each of his witness accounts).

           Another weird part about his audio witness statement (YouTube link in a comment above)…

           “John” says, “No lie, at least 20 seconds later the cops were there.” Why is he so adamant about something like this? He wasn’t able to give specific timing during the whole witness account – he said everything just flew by which is understandable – but he SWEARS the cops showed up 20 seconds after the shot.

           Hmmmmmm

           If only “John” a) Did anything but (supposedly) yell at Zimmerman and Martin to stop or B) Stayed inside like his fiancée suggested (again, see: his audio witness statement clip above).

       • I’m coming at the butt end of the conversation…there is a youtube clip of his call to 911 that gives actual start and end time…if I recall correctly, his call didn’t start until about 7:17 and only lasted for about a min and end before 7:19. Now, my initial thoughts were that it was John that took photo and one who GZ asked to call his wife…but after reading over witness accounts, I beleive it is in fact Jeremy(wit#12?), who’s flashlight guy, photo taker, and wife caller. Although, he’s never identified as either of these people, because when the photo of GZ bloody head was released, it said the witness wished to remain anonymous.

       • His statement is soooo EXHAUSTING…He’s all over the place with this statement…and can hear frustration in investigator’s tone. He just can’t seem to be able to answer directly. One minute he’s saying he was out there…another time he’s not…if you listen, they ask him what color was the person on top? he says, “when I first ‘walked out’ there I could see he was black”, then they ask, “And this was the time you were looking out the window?” He replies, “Yes, yelling at them to stop”…ok, so was this the investigator trying to find inconsistencies in John’s story? So, which is it, were you outside on the patio at time of wrestling/MMA, oops, not MMA fighting, or were you looking out the window?

         • “John” said his fiancée told him to NOT go OUTSIDE (as I recall).

         • At the 14:40, 16:50, 26:26, and 28:34 marks, “John” says he went back inside. At 19:09 he says, “When I first walked out there.” At 28:11, he caught himself saying, “I ran back inside.” At 29:15, “John” makes sure the interviewers know how long he wants investigators to believe he was outside. “It was 1, 2, I’m calling 911, inside.”

           Before the 14:40 mark and also at the 24:28 mark, “John” said he only opened his patio door to see what was going on and yelled at the two for wrestling around.

           As mentioned in a previous comment and during his recorded witness statement, “John’s” fiancée told him to not open the door when the voices came closer. That’s not true. Somebody would never say “Don’t open the patio door” in an attempt to listen to whatever the unidentified commotion was outside. The fiancée may have said, “Don’t go outside” — just like the female caller that was scolding Jeremy during her call.

           “John” is not going to have a good day on the stand. At all.

       • I wonder, if the witness who states they saw somone on top in ‘white’ T-shirt, if that could’ve been GZ with his jacket off? Don’t believe that witness specified if it was long or short sleeved. Given all that GZ managed to accomplish following the shooting, frisking TM, repositioning body, it’s possible his jacket could’ve been off at some point.

       • NMLE:
         Someone put together the 911 calls’ audio on youtube with timestamps
         

         The text under the youtube video states that the shot was at 7:16:58.

         “John” seems to be caller #6 after the shot, and the starting time is indicated as 7:18:00 (although the video author states it may be mixed up with caller #5, with start time of 7:17:54). In either case, it’s about a minute after the shot.

         • Thank you, Sproutlette!

       • There is a yell for help audible in the background of John’s call, at the beginning. Maybe we can line it up with the other call that recorded the screams. My guess is that John has already gone in and locked the door, and is describing things he has heard prior to the call being connected. We don’t hear the groan or the shot. Maybe he is in the stairwell between floors at that moment, because he is clearly shocked by the time he looks out from upstairs.

         I think the 20 seconds thing is his emphasis that he can’t believe how quickly police were there on the scene after the in incident. Paraphrase as “I know it’s hard to believe, but they were there in like, 20 seconds”.

         I had mistakenly thought John was GZ’s security buddy Taaffe. If Taaffe was not on the scene, then who asks GZ “what did you use, the 9mm or the .40?” as heard by one of the ear witnesses? Which witness heard that? Who is this gun pal nonchalantly chatting with GZ, as if he had just shot a deer? Someone on the scene is friends with GZ’s arsenal.

         Here is another big q… Could Austin chasing the dog be what contacts-off lady sees/hears go by her window?

         There is an incredibly eloquent moment the way Austin explains it as stereotyping, in the second video interview in the follow ups pushed by YouTube. I can’t do it justice.

         • Is anybody knowledgeable of Austin’s witness statement on YouTube? Are there any other witness statements on YouTube yet? I’ve heard John’s located here…

           bcclist.com/2012/05/14/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-court-proceedings-and-trial/#comment-16635

           …but, would like to hear more.

         • I don’t hear a scream here — is there another version of “John’s” call?

       • Sproutlette,

         I believe John called right at the time of the gunshot. First, he says so, and there is no reason for him to lie. Second, he sees flashlight man 1min into his call. This is also the same time it took the Teacher to noticed flashlight man. She, too states that she was calling 911 when the shot went off.

         • No reason to lie unless “John” was outside during the scuffle and/or shot. I don’t think he wanted to be known as somebody that was outside when things went down. Why not, though?

           Didn’t John’s call come 1+ minute after the shot is heard on a different witness 911 call or is that timing wrong?

       • Did John misspeak? Yes. Virtually all the witnesses mix tenses, and use the present tense to describe things that have already happened, as John does is describing the wrestling and hearing the shot. His call is clearly placed well after the shot goes off.

         But the cops were not there 20 seconds after the shot went off, which does shed doubts on John’s veracity or accuracy. A neighbor carrying a flashlight arrived on the scene fairly quickly, but Ofc. Smith, whose car entered The Retreat about 40 seconds after the shot went off, did not know exactly where to go. He wandered around a bit and didn’t arrive at the actual location of the shooting until about 2 minutes after the shot went off.

         • John misspoke several times. Including the 32:54 mark of the YouTube witness statement when the investigator directly asked…

           “Was it during that call that you heard the rock hit the window?”

           “Yes.”

       • A witness heard “what did you use, the 9mm or the .40?”!!!
         Where can I find this statement?
         In the evidence dump, one witness states that she knows GZ. She also says that she can envision GZ confronting someone he sees as a criminal. Is there any evidence the voice was that of a female?
         I’ll have to read again her statement as I may be missing some points she made

       • As the creator of the time-stamped YouTube Video that places John’s call as starting at (adjusted) 7:17:54, given the discussion here, perhaps I should say how I arrived at that conclusion.

         WKMG-TV reported the 911 calls were received at, “7:16:11, 7:16:41, 7:17:06, 7:17:15, 7:17:54, 7:18:00 and 7:19:04”. These times have not been corroborated by official documents, but they have not been refuted, and they seem to be internally consistent.

         The first two times are easy to match to the call recordings, as the gunshot occurs during both.

         The last call (7:19:04) is clearly the one placed by Austin Brown’s sister, after Austin returned home. I eventually concluded the second to last call (7:18:00) is from Mary Cutcher because Mary and Selma were at their door for some time after the gunshot trying to speak to George Zimmerman. Of course, the difference between 7:17:54 and 7:18:00 isn’t really significant.

         Anyway, that leaves the middle three calls to place. These are “The Teacher” John, and the other older woman worried that an elderly neighbor may have had a heart attack. How I ordered them is based not just on when they mention the appearance of flashlights, but HOW. The Teacher is the easiest to place, since she is clearly describing things to the 911 operator as she see’s them occur. The other woman first mentions the flashlight with a quickening of speech that interrupts her previous train of thought, strongly indicating that she has just seen the flashlight when she speaks of it. These spontaneous references to the flashlight line up more or less exactly when placed with the 7:17:06 and 7:17:15 start times.

         The outlier (surprise, surprise) is John. I place him at 7:17:54 in part because that’s the only option left. This does, however, place his first reference to the flashlight well after all the others. In fact, if you line up the first references to the flashlights in the three ‘middle’ calls. They all occur at about the same duration into the call. Which would suggest they were all placed around the same time. But if the WKMG report is correct, that’s just not possible. One of those calls had to have come in at 7:17:54.

         If you listen to the way John speaks about the flashlight, it is not with any surprise. It also follows a 22 second long redacted section which seems to result from the 911 operator’s difficulty in understanding John’s name and address and entering it into the computer correctly. So he can’t be describing events-as-they-happen if he’s trying to get the operator to understand that he is saying “Twin Trees Lane” and “Twin Trees” is two words. So, by the time he is able to return to discussing the scene, he’s talking about things that have already happened.

         Furthermore, we know know that a neighbor arrived on the scene with a flashlight well before Ofc.Smith got there. And indeed in most of the 911 calls there is a gap of several minutes between the time they first report a flashlight, and the time when they are able to verify that a policeman has arrived. The first mentions of POLICE also line up well, again except for John’s. John identifies a policeman as being on scene about 20 seconds after he first mentions a flashlight. Thus, with John’s call starting at either 7:17:54 or 7:18:00, he is the FIRST 911 caller to spot the police.

         And, lo, (TA-DA!) if John’s call began at 7:17:54, then his first mention of the police (~7:19:04) corresponds quite closely to what we know about when Ofc. Smith actually got to the spot of the shooting. Placing the start time of John’s call any earlier than 7:17:54 would have him seeing police before police could possibly have arrived, as well as making one of the other callers sudden recognition of the flashlight delayed until well after the flashlight bearing neighbor arrived.

128. Is it possible that Trayvon runs and turns into the path behind the townhomes and hides. He sees Zimmerman run by past the back path to go onto the last street heading directly to the back entrance. Trayvon comes out to continue home. Zimmerman doesn’t see Trayvon, realizes he has run too far and doubles back or cuts through between the townhomes and starts following Trayvon again in the back of the houses.

     • Not really. Then the fight could not have happened where it did.

129. some inconsistancies i have noticed since reading over some older posts. When did the gun come in to play according to Zimmermans father. First it was that george reached for his phone, trayvon saw the gun and punched him. Then it was that George forgot he had the gun until Trayvon saw it while they were on the ground and zimmerman was able to grab it and shoot martin. Another thing was that the father again (i think it was the father) said george walked all the way down the path (south) to find the street name. But this street was the same street he was parked on, that runs through the middle of the community that only has about 6 streets anyway…and besides there would be no street sign at the end of the path, street signs are at the ends of streets, so did he walk to the end of the street to view the street sign? I’m guessing no because we all know that is not the real reason he walked all that way.

     Towards the end of the article, it also says Zimmerman Sr was there when the police made george re-enact the incident.

     • EXCELLENT comment throughout but you saved the best for last…

       “Towards the end of the article, it also says Zimmerman Sr was there when the police made george re-enact the incident.”

       It sent goosebumps down my arm when Robert Zimmerman mentioned he was essentially broke and a veteran but not a retired judge during the bond hearing.

       I wonder why he’d want to be there for George’s reenactment? All George had to do was tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Well, unless there was something to hide like the fact that Zimmerman stalked, harassed, and preyed upon his teenage neighbor before murdering him.

       • Yeah, first TM sees the gun when GZ is reaching for his cell phone, no matter that he’s supposed to be headed back to his truck and getting jumped from behind, eh?

         Okay so that ends version one right? GZ is turned around facing TM, when the gun is “discovered”.

         Now version Two; while they were on the ground with GZ fighting for his life, he wriggles over onto the grass (with TM still straddling him) and his gun is exposed and TM sees it!?! If you’re straddling someone and something is exposed at your waist line, it’s behind you, so how do you get to see it?
         So that ends version two and both versions are false.

         Then he draws the gun, by somehow reaching under TM’s crotch and pulling his hand back, bringing the gun in front of TM. Nice trick! If TM already has seen the gun and/or knows that’s what you’re pushing your hand under him for. He’s not going to just sit there and let you push your hand under him.
         He’s going to simply reach back there and take the gun away, then he can go home because you can’t follow him now that he’s armed and you’re not.

         Obviously GZ could not let that happen, he’d be the laughingstock of the world.

         The SP is going to let him continue to spin his stories, I’ve notice they’ve all gone very quiet. O’Mara can’t figure a way to cast anymore doubt on the matter and the internet chatter on the matter isn’t going GZ’s way. All the boards I’ve visited show that GZ’s supporters are taking it on the chin with their various theories. Donations have dropped to less than 1k per week, as reported last week, they could be down to less than 100 dollars a week by now.

         The key piece of witness testimony for me is, that shortly before the shot, only one person is seen laying on the ground. GZ’s story depends on the fight being continuous up until the shot is fired. That means they had to be continuously in close contact until the shot. If that wasn’t the case GZ is toast!

       • It could be that he was there to give emotional support to his son. Reenacting a traumatic event is very difficult. He was probably also curious. He may have wanted to indicate that he couldn’t provide much help with the bond.

         • How close did Robert live from George? Doesn’t he live in Virginia or is that just where he retired from?

           If he lives in Virginia, that’s an expensive hike for somebody with such limited funds to show support to his 28 year old son as you suggest. If he lives closer than Virginia, I’m sure George could have told the truth by himself without support…he is 28.

           Are lawyers normally present during their clients reenactments? This is a real question not in a “gotcha” type of way — I don’t know the answer.

           • I understood that Robert retired to Florida. It is not unusual to provide support to another adult. We see supportive families at trials. They realize reenacting a traumatic event is very stressful. This was probably the first time GZ had killed anyone. I would expect it to be a very difficult time for him.

             • To confirm, family members and/or individuals offering legal advice commonly attend reenactments performed by loved ones and/or clients? Any links or sources? Seems very off to me.

       • Makes sense on several levels to have the father there. Moral support, for one. And to let him see “what happened” without having to explain it in so much detail. This came in handy when the fuss started, as father could tell everyone GZ’s version as if he’d actually been there when it happened. Also he’d be in a better position to give further “legal” advice seeing it first-hand.

         Whether it’s going to go to court or not, family might want a good understanding of what happened. I’ve known people insisting on seeing the spot and the wreck relatives have died in. They need to understand it. Nothing nefarious about it, it’s part of getting closure. For Z snr. he’d need to see how GZ managed to get himself into doo-doo this time.

         @NLME, we already know “the fact that Zimmerman stalked, harassed, and preyed upon his teenage neighbor before murdering him”, please go easy on it. Repetition won’t prove it; the detective work you are hosting here very easily might.

         • Zimmerman is 28. Moral support isn’t needed. On the other hand, if your story needs to line up, legal support is probably worthwhile. I contend that legal support isn’t needed if you intend to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

       • Lonnie Starr,

         “The key piece of witness testimony for me is, that shortly before the shot, only one person is seen laying on the ground. GZ’s story depends on the fight being continuous up until the shot is fired. That means they had to be continuously in close contact until the shot. If that wasn’t the case GZ is toast!”

         I totally agree.

       • I am pretty sure his father was there to help him keep his lie straight, as we see over the years he has supported him in all his criminal mischief. It looks like to me, the police should not have had any outside interference. My investigator friend says it is not necessary and is unusual for anyone but the witness and any law enforcement to be at a reenactment. Mr. Zimmerman was not being charged with any crime, he was interrogated or talk with for only 2 hours and in that time they decided stand your ground was sufficient, so why else would daddy be there! This Sanford police department has been incompetent in every way in their handling of this case. Mr Zimmermans presence just shows you how lax they are in their department, heck didn’t George tell us they are lazy!! Why not invite the entire family so that if any evidence that linked anything to their son/family member they could just pick it up and put it in their pockets. Zimmerman has been treated like a king by that police department and it is a shame that so many can look at him as a hero and not even try to find out who Trayvon was. I am here to inform all that want to know, Trayvon Martin was concerned about his SAT scores and what he needed in order to get into colleges, the same email the white supremicist broke into had emails from several admissions counselor from different colleges, he also has not a failing student. He wanted to have a career in aviation, he was a skier, he rode horses, he saved his dad from a fire and in turn he became his dads hero( can you imagine losing your hero, I lost mine 12 years ago to a heart attack). No he was not perfect but neither is Zimmerman but he continues to live to keep making the same mistakes and getting plea deals, program counseling, etc. When will Zimmerman stop if he gets away with this? if he keeps getting to plea or go to programs to have his records cleared then what do you think will make him stop?, Trayvon Martin will never get to realize his dreams because someone thought he didn’t deserve to live, he may have done some things but he had time to change them, he was a teenager and teenagers make mistakes. He was not committing a crime. The same people say that it is not a crime to follow someone well is it a crime to look at someone’s home? he said he was looking about at houses, not in windows but at houses! Personally I believe that Zimmerman lucked up with the THC found in Trayvons system , it was the luck of the draw for him because he just said that due to him wanting to make it seem like something was wrong with young Martin. BELOW is from an article after Trayvon Martins emails were hacked.>>>>>>>>

         A screenshot of Trayvon’s Gmail inbox our source provided us is heartbreaking. Martin apparently used his Gmail account for his college search, and it’s filled with emails about upcoming SAT tests and scholarship applications. (“Trayvon, now is the best time to take the SATs!”) One email included the results of a career aptitude test, our source said. It “talked about his interest in aeronautics and stuff.”

         • “My investigator friend says it is not necessary and is unusual for anyone but the witness and any law enforcement to be at a reenactment.”

           This is what I presumed. I’m shocked it’s even allowed EVER unless the person giving the reenactment is a minor.

       • NLME,

         “No Longer Mass Emailing” Says:

         May 27, 2012 at 12:53 pm
         “How close did Robert live from George? Doesn’t he live in Virginia or is that just where he retired from?”

         ===================================

         My response:

         His parents live in Lake Mary, Florida which is located in Seminole County, same county as Sanford. I believe they moved there around 2004, give a take a year or 2.

         T.G.

         • Thank you, Sleuth!

       • I think the discussion here has missed the elephant in the room. If “Zimmerman Sr was there when the police made george re-enact the incident,” then his account, as given to Fox and other ‘news’ sources, is likely to be closest to what GZ actually told the police. Thus, documenting the ways in which RZ pere’s story is at odds with the physical evidence and other witness testimony may be more fruitful than interrogating the slightly different versions offered by other GZ surrogates.

         [A humorous thought for Martin case obsessives of a certain age: If Robert Zimmerman was present as George Zimmerman ‘re-enacted’ Trayvon Martin’s shooting for the police, I hope he was singing “The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carrol.”]

     • I agree it is very strange to have daddy present. The re-enactment was part of the investigation into a shooting death, i would have thought the only other person allowed would be perhaps a lawyer. Also, because daddy witnessed the re-enactment, he confirmed that george walked allllll the way down the path. So he went all the way to Trayvons house. Now if trayvon did approach zimmerman and punch him in his face (i don’t think it happened that way but if it did….) then he had every damn right to …this unidentified guy followed him in his car, and then on foot to his HOME. I would go bat-shit crazy myself if this freak showed up in my back yard too.

       • Yes, indeed.

       • It was NOT Trayvon’s house. It was NOT Trayvon’s father’s house. It was not the neighborhood of either of those two. Exactly what right did he have?

         The majority of the people here are caught up in a media feeding frenzy. There are cases far more tragic and crappy than this one. Usually, the media covers crimes against young white women committed by racially unidentified males. (But we know what failure to disclose race always means.)

         But back to the media feeding frenzy thing. You’re all sucking at the teet of some seriously sour nipples. Nothing you are doing here is aiding in anything. You are, however, putting countless hours of thought and energy into your imaginary world of crime and punishment and you’re doing it all “Scooby Doo” and “Hardy Boys” style.

         The news media never gets it quite right. Their job is to get people to look at their media which is interlaced with advertisements. Whatever engages people makes them lots of money. That makes you all cattle as they feed you with crap that keeps you coming back for more and more without end.

         As we have seen in cases like these in the past, the REAL tragedies which occur are the ones that occur because of media hype and hysteria surrounding the initial stories. It is especially true in the cases where race is game. No matter what the outcome, there is, has already been and will be black people doing crime and citing “Trayvon” as the cause. This was true in the Rodney King case. This was true in the O.J. Simpson case.

         This discussion series and ones like it are seriously contributing to the problem. You’re feeding it without making any positive contribution in the slightest. It’s an interest or a curiosity at best, but the results are that Google and other search engines find this, record this, classify this and quantify this and people out there are, in fact, exploiting this. And you’re all feeding it.

         If you people are genuinely interested in the criminal justice system, I urge you all to spend some time in the court rooms in your areas. You don’t need tickets or anything. See it all first hand. Watch a trial. Watch some bond hearings. Learn about Grand Juries and the rest of the process. If you’re really interested in the truth, it’s there for you to see. But it’s not like this and not the way you’re imagining it.

         You didn’t start the fire, but you’re all fanning the flames.

         • Don’t be so bitter, Daniel — it’s getting weird.

           And, Trayvon and Tracy Martin were indeed staying at 2631 Retreat View Circle. Or, are you saying they were just guests of Brandy Green’s (for weeks+ at a time)? The narrative doesn’t change either way.

           • According to GZ, he had several chances to talk reasonably to TM. At one point, as the story goes, GZ says that TM walked over and knocked on his car window, at which point GZ rolled the window down. TM asked him “why are you following me?” To which GZ answered: “I’m not following you”.

             Now, at the front gate, where I’m sure everyone has seen it, there’s a rather large sign, indicating that there is a neighborhood watch program in effect. So, GZ’s lie, heightens tensions, by removing himself as a possible NW in TM’s mind. Imaging someone is following you, you think it might be either an undercover cop or a NW. But that person tells you no, he’s not either of those things, by way of telling that he’s not following you when he clearly is.

             Now, is TM supposed to think that by identifying himself and explaining what he’s doing there, is going to make any difference to GZ? Or, has GZ precluded any further means of defusing the situation with talk?

             Remember, GZ is the one who says that he didn’t know if Tm was armed. So then, is neighborhood watch a good and sufficient reason to put yourself in harms way? The police say no it isn’t! The police say that GZ should not have let any suspicious person get anywhere near him. He could have accomplished that easily by just staying in his car. Then his mistaken ideas would not have resulted in an innocent persons death.

       • daniel. It is where he was staying. It is where he was suppose to be safe. He was with his family which IS home. It most certainly was not George Zimmermans home but you don’t seem to have a problem with him being there.

         Why are you here then exactly? What are you trying to change? What do other tragedies have to do with the case we are discussing? There will always be other tragedies, i guess it depends on everyones individual situation and interests as to what draws us to a particular incident. You are here so presumably you bought into the same thing that the rest of us cattle did. You seem a bit frantic. There is very good discussion here, a lot of facts, a lot of guessing and throwing ideas around, just as you have done. You think it’s ugly here, then i suggest you don’t go and visit some of the blatently pro-zimmerman sites, but i’m sure you already have.

       • Daniel,
         How is it you feel that your assessmant of Trayvon Martin being the aggressor therefore causing his own death is correct? You sit on your high horse looking down on us and acting as though we are sheep when you yourself are biased and most definately lean in Zimmermans favor. The problem with you is that you find fault in others but find yourself to be all knowing and the messiah of the truth. What do you know that we sheep do not know? Absolutely nothing. All you did was grasp on to the racial aspect and after that it was all about supporting Zimmerman because the big bad black people brought Al Sharpton to town. I read all your comments and they all focus on black people. You could care less about justice, you just dont want anyone to focus on anything but how you feel that you were somehow wronged when race came into play. If you had any sense,you would be mad at Zimmerman, he was the one who profiled black males in the neighborhood, he even profiled black home owners in the neighborhood. Why is it ok to profile someone? Who cares about all the cases you want to bring up from the past, you spew the same garbage every other Zimmerman supporter has spewed on all the other blogs.Since you are such a saint what are you doing to improve race relations? How active are you in this world? Noone belittled you we let you rant and rave but you want to poke fun at us and accuse us of being followers all the while not even delving into the evidence. Zimmerman said young Martin attacked him, what did you expect him to say? Oh I know, you expected a person who has evaded doing time for his past crimes, to say: I followed Trayvon Martin he got scared because after he ran from me as I stated in my 911 call, I appeared again and a fight ensued, I kept my hands in the air so that I would not have any types of defensive wounds on my hands or any sign of protecting myself and although I have a low shaven head MrMartin was able to keep slamming my head on the ground all the while I lay there and never put my hands on him but once I got tired of it I reached for my gun and shot him for no reason. Yeah I can see that happening. The problem with your statement is that you don’t see how Trayvon Martin could have been defending himself because I see in a prior comment that you say that having boys around Trayvons age, that even if Trayvon was defending himself he had no right to go so far, ok I see. So you are either a blatant racist or you are just a loud mouth egotist who thinks that everything goes one way and one way only. Zimmerman having a cut on his head and a bruised nose goes along with his story and why shouldnt it, he is the author of it ya know!!! Crime is committed by all races please get over yourself because you are not doing anything on this blog to promote harmony yourself. Typo alerts I am on my phone again.

130. I just had a thought – are the time estimates for the speed and distance Trayvon and Zimmerman too fast? It was raining that night. Are the speeds and distances based on normal conditions? Wouldn’t you account for a slower speed, shorter distance because of the wet ground? I certainly wouldn’t run full speed on wet surfaces. Just a thought.

     • The timing used for the maps is based on my somewhat athletic (though 30 pounds overweight) 3/4 sprint. So, not a fast walk or casual jog but definitely NOT an all out sprint.

131. Zimmerman’s Myspace rants:( oh and his lawyer Omara says these are his so they were not doctored up, they just weren’t made a big deal out of like everyone did when the fake gold toothed Trayvon Martin appeared)>>>>>>>>

     The page was first made public by the Miami Herald. Zimmerman’s lawyer, Mark O’Mara, confirmed that the page is George Zimmerman’s MySpace, but has been unused for years.

     Photos on Zimmerman’s MySpace page show Zimmerman, who calls himself “Joe G.,” with groups of friends. In his biographical blurb, he discusses things he doesn’t miss about his former home in Manassas, Virginia:

     I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book. Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”

     In an August 24, 2005 blog post, he boasts about his relief about the proceedings in a criminal case.

     Im still free! The ex hoe tried her hardest, but the judge saw through it! Big Mike, reppin the Dverse security makin me look a million bucks, broke her down! Thanks to everyone for checkin up on me! Stay tuned for the A.T.F. charges……

     A few days later, he expresses happiness that the other charges against him were reduced to misdemeanors.

     2 felonies dropped to 1 misdemeanor!!!!!!!!!!! The man knows he was wrong but still got this hump, Thanks to everyone friends and fam, G baby you know your my rock!

     When you allow someone to get away with things over and over again they will feel invincible and the next thing you know, they go and kill someone’s child and gets away with it for a short period of time but then America spoke up and said NO!! not this time!! some are having a hard time with black, white, asian, hispanics etc. saying NO but it doesn’t matter, we got an arrest and with each passing day we see more and more how his wall of lies are being revealed. I look forward to papa Zimmerman trying to repeat his lies on a witness stand. My bet is with Mark O’mara dipping and dodging out of the line of questioning every chance he gets, he will try to get his client to plea but Zimmerman won’t go for it. He thinks he has enough support and enough charisma to stand trial. He also doesn’t want to do a day of jail time.Does anybody think he will testify on his on behalf?

     • Links/Sources?

       • yeah i remember reading about his myspace page too theresa, here is one link and i’m sure there are more http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/zimmerman-myspace-page_n_1471818.html

       • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/05/02/zimmerman-myspace-page_n_1471818.html

         Sorry NLME, I just read your comment, this is from Huffington post.

         • Cool — thanks!

132. Does anyone know who witness #7 is? Thee was no audio released on this witness’s statements. Is this the one who supposedly put her phone up to the window?

133. NLME i sent you that email of 176 onwards..cheers 🙂

134. @ Daniel
     “It was NOT Trayvon’s house. It was NOT Trayvon’s father’s house. It was not the neighborhood of either of those two. Exactly what right did he have?”

     If I say I dropped off my out of town visitor “at his hotel”, does that mean he owns that hotel? of course not. Does his not owning mean he has no right to walk up to it and enter? of course not.

     It is not about ownership. It is about where he was staying AS AN INVITED GUEST. Or are you saying people who just rent have no right to go home either?

     Give us a break.

     “If you people are genuinely interested in the criminal justice system, ….” you don’t know what any of us knows or has seen. Let’s not start a pissing contest about it.

     Yes there are plenty of very one-sided media reports about this case, and even worse totally one-eyed websites making up and faking “facts” wholesale.

     In case you have not noticed, THIS blog is trying to concentrate on REAL FACTS, taken entirely from published evidence, trying to fit the pieces together.

     Sure the media has to make a living, and sure they get more viewers/readers with sensational stuff than bland and boring.

     But is YOU were concerned about the criminal justice system, you would see that THAT is where this whole media frenzy problem started.

     The “justice” system puts the public’s “right to know” ahead of the defendant’s right to a fair trial, by allowing the publication of evidence that should, in most countries, only come out at the trial.

     This leaves it wide open for evidence and witnesses to be interfered with, and witnesses to cross-contaminate each other (even by accident). In countries where publishing the evidence is forbidden, witnesses often don’t even know who the other witnesses are.

     So that is the justice system for you, not what goes on in the court room.

     Anyway, if the system does publish everything, that makes us ALL jurors. So there is nothing wrong with us pulling that evidence to pieces and seeing if those pieces add up to Truth or Lie. We might be better at it then a real jury, as we’ve not been subjected to attorney’s tricks and manipulations, as a real jury would be.

     • In my opinion John, witness #6 was seen as a witness that could help the defense’s “self-defense” plea. He is also a witness that has changed his story… If the defense decides to discredit witnesses based on changes, they will have to deal with any inconsistencies in GZ and W6’s statements. I don’t happen to agree that W6 is a good witness for the defense. From his perspective they were only on the concrete for a few seconds and GZ is the one who moved his head from the grass to the concrete.

       • And, if you check out the update section of the blog posting, “John” (apparently) flat out lies about his call’s timing as related to the shot.

135. SMH – McClatchy article about witnesses “changing” story

     http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/05/27/150296/witnesses-contradict-each-other.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

     No time to even pick through the outright untruths in this starting with the premise. I read halfway down and decided I had more important things to do on a holiday.

     • Frustrating for sure. Thankfully the questioning of witness accounts has nothing to do with Zimmerman’s Murder 2 charge.

       • Yes, good article in the sense that it certainly parrots what I have already stated here. Witnesses changing their testimony can only help Zimmerman as their accounts become pretty much worthless.

         I haven’t heard much on the topic of “hate crime” lately, but I still don’t see anything solid to support that notion either.

         As for getting murder 2 conviction? The pistol was licensed and legal to carry. The fact that he was carrying it at the time he was investigating a lone black male who was not a part of the neighborhood wearing clothing that would conceal his identity (how is that not suspicious? and if you claim it isn’t, then please describe a situation that WOULD seem suspicious.) To leave his weapon some place less secure would be irresponsible.

         So without good testimony to the contrary (and seriously, the only good testimony has been from the ex-coworker indicating that Zimmerman is an asshole… and don’t get me wrong, I think Zimmerman’s an asshole.) he fits within the classic definition of self-defense. If this happened in Texas, it wouldn’t even have been in the news.

         Lots of room for reasonable doubt. Forensic evidence shows Zimmerman was beaten while Martin was not. Zimmerman should walk based on all of this.

         I am not saying Zimmerman didn’t have more sinister motives or ideas. I’m saying that can’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And as I have stated before, I have some experience in these matters — real live experience.

         • Witnesses cleaned up their stories for sure. But, I don’t think these changes in stories so far have either hurt or helped Zimmerman’s case.

           I’m confused…below is 2nd degree murder spelled out. This is perfectly fitting of Zimmerman’s actions that night.

           Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as…

           1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable “heat of passion” or

           2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender’s obvious lack of concern for human life.

           Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

           • What does it matter if witnesses are changing their stories, if the supposed dangerous fight has now been turned into a simple wrestling match or a tussle?

             Does anyone think that witnesses changing their stories is going to sway a jury, more than the fact that GZ is trying to claim that a wrestling match caused him to fear for his life? Oh, yeah, I forgot to add “tussling”! I’d count the article as pro TM more than pro GZ.

           • 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable “heat of passion” or

             This doesn’t fit because the circumstancial evidence indicates Zimmerman was being attacked or at the very least losing a fight badly. Heat of passion certainly describes what was happening.

             The only possible argument which might be made would be derrived from the ballistic evidence. But even that leaves lots of room for reasonable doubt as claims based on the notion that there was “safe distance” between the two at the time the gun fired doesn’t fit the law enforcement definition and it doesn’t account for bodies in motion (meaning charging, backing away or any of that).

             2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender’s obvious lack of concern for human life.

             Only in someone’s wildest imagination could #2 fit. For any of the straws of character profile against Zimmerman, there’s mountains of information to the contrary. He was a community participant in the truest sense of the word.

             • “Only in someone’s wildest imagination could #2 fit.”

               Then I have a very, very, VERY wild imagination based on the evidence examined in both of these blog postings.

               I’m not letting Zimmerman off on #1 yet either given his superficial wounds and what we’ve heard so far regarding the ballistic evidence.

               Lastly, “These assholes always get away” shows premeditation of sorts since Trayvon didn’t get away with his snacks. I’m shocked the prosecutors didn’t take a look at 1st degree murder…yet.

       • In response to your question in the other blog post – I don’t think the McClatchy article attacks DeeDee. My comment was based on what I picked up in the threads before I responded where people here were attacking her and her credibility in the other post. I didn’t read the McClatchy article in full because I noticed about 4 untruths in the beginning. I suppose it is easy to say that these witnesses changed their stories and McClatchy asserts that several changed their story because of TV coverage. That is a bald-faced lie as only one person stated that the TV was the guide for them based on Zimmerman’s size. One!

         Further, as I stated the premise is leaning towards untruths. Several of the witnesses only gave about two minute interviews initially with SPD and wrote tiny blurbs. They then later were questioned longer by FDLE. To state that more details came out later under a more investigative and longer interview is to play fast and loose with the framing of what actually occurred.

         Finally, many witnesses have asserted that SPD were suggestive and leading in their questioning. To undergo questioning without a leading interrogator and to make different statements is NOT changing the story. Throw in that many of the supposed witnesses’ statements are based not on what was directly said but what police said the witness said and you begin to get to the bottom of the so-called “changed” stories.

         But nonetheless, the biggest “changer” of stories is the confessed killer. His contradictory and inconsistent statements go alot farther in proving the prosecutor’s case than any other witness.

         The McClatchy article is pure spin and factually incorrect.

         • Biggest issue with the WordPress app? You can’t see what chain of comments you’re responding to. 🙂

       • Daniel,
         You say you have experience, real life experience, have you murdered someone? Seriously, I am not talking about military wise I mean as a civilian. I am just curious. You are back peddling around now and saying things like sinister etc. Dont you think and I am sure you wont agree that since this adult male killed a teenager who had a pair of jeans on, red and white sneakers, a hoodie in which the hood was up due to it raining and all inwhich you deem suspicious clothing deserve to be investigated? Why do you think that Martin looked strange because he had his hood up? You do realize raincoats have hoods and we put these on small children. Are the children at the kindergarten suspects as wel? Everybody has a hoodie or jacket that mimicks a hoodie, it protects your head. What other suspicious article of clothing would you be speaking of ? Are you really saying what Zimmerman was thinking and saying, a black male was wearing one and that is the difference, hence your racial profiling. It all matters who is wearing the hoodie not the fact that everybody wears them because now hoodies are suspicious clothing, since when? I remember waiting on the bus to take us from Disney, it was raining andI remember people of all races wearing hoodies, they were of all ages as well. Hoodies are not what was deemed suspicious, young Martin was but if Zimmerman had been the adult you wanted young Martin to be, then this did not have to be the topic of discussion. You also say Zimmerman saw a black male who didnt belong in the neighborhood, how would Zimmerman know he didnt belong in the neighborhood? did he know everyone in the neighborhood? Black people do live there in the neighborhood some rented and some own their homes, I know it seems like seeing black people in the neighborhood was like spotting big foot because the way Zimmerman and Taaffe spoke, but sorry they live in the community. I am glad th.t the law has to take in account situations on a case by case situation because every crime is not self defense just like everybody is not a criminal. Too bad Martin will always be thought of as a thug and nothing else. It is bad when you are pre judged because people never get to know who you are.

136. Thought I was losing my mind, but I found it, in a link I posted before, but unfortunately it was a link to page two, so it was buried.

     Anyway, is clears up the seconds after the gunshot. It is neighbors who are the first flashlight guys.

     Here we see it is most likely John. The article seems to be written based on an interview with him as we can identify his details that are provided, like the rock sound. But how can he say “I’ve never heard a gunshot before” to ask “9mm or .40?”

     Now why would someone think to ask someone about a 9mm or .40? I would not know what those numbers would mean. Isn’t that like asking “what lure did you use to catch that fish?”

     And why would John know that Zimmerman might have used a 9mm or a .40?

     http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/17/2804894/cries-in-the-night-witnesses-conflict.html

     “It sounded like a rock hit a window,” the witness said. “I’ve never heard a gunshot before.”

     He looked outside.

     “The person that was actually on top at that point was laying in my grass, kind of in a sprawled position — not moving,” he said. “And then I saw another person with his hands in the air.”

     That was Zimmerman.

     Flashlights from neighbors began to illuminate bits of the night. Police were en route. Zimmerman stood over Trayvon.

     “The gun’s on the ground,” Zimmerman said, according to the witness. “I shot this guy in self-defense.”

     They appear to be his first words after the shooting.

     Another neighbor whose wife had been peering intermittently at the squabble soon came outside. He shined his flashlight on Zimmerman.

     “Man, I got blood on my face?” Zimmerman asked, the witness told police on the night of the shooting.

     “Yeah, you got blood all over, man,” the witness said he responded. “I looked over and he’s got blood on the back of his head. You all right man?”

     Zimmerman: “Ah, man this guy he was beating up on me so I had to shoot him.” The witness asked what kind of gun Zimmerman shot.

     “Did you use a 9 [mm] or a .40?” he asked.

     Zimmerman: “I used a 9.” Witness: “Did you call 911 yet?”

     Zimmerman squatted down and, the witness said, he could see “blood on the back of his head, grass stains. And by that time I flashed my light down. And there was this kid face down in the grass.”

     “Can you please call my wife,” Zimmerman reportedly asked him, the witness said in a follow-up interview a month later. “Let her know what happened.”

     The witness complied, called Mrs. Zimmerman and told her that her husband was handcuffed and being held in a shooting.

     • It is strange that someone would ask about the kind of gun rather than the well being of the participants. Priorities, I guess.

     • Sounds like Zimmerman knew to cry self defense. The last thing Zimmerman should have had access to was Criminal justice classes. How do you kill someone and immediately especially after knowing he was a teenager, let that be the first thing you say. It is so sad that they held a conversation about the gun and shooting but neither of them tried to do cpr on young Martin, truly sad!!

       • I got that feeling too.. He offers a defense without anyone asking, and then to the second witness, he offers his defense in answer to the question, are you alright?

         His defense is already the only thing on his mind, right after the shooting.

       • Why would you deny classes to anyone?

         • “The last thing Zimmerman should have had access to was Criminal justice classes.”

           I’m confident riisey’s comment was made in a moment of frustration. Although, it is a shame Zimmerman knew so much about killing a person in supposed self defense (though he definitely didn’t know enough like the fact that you can’t stalk, harass, and prey upon somebody before murdering them).

         • Perhaps you need to read my comment again! How about this, he learned just what he needed through his criminal justice courses to be very aware of what is needed in order to claim self defense. Where though did I try to deny him the rightto take classes anywhere? We do see how it benefited him really well though. You seem to over look his past where he has shown violent tendencies and through these fits, have lost jobs and been arrested, so yes!! Criminal justice classes would be the last major he should have been introduced to. Do you really think they never went over cases, or studied any criminal cases? That is what I mean!!!

       • @riisey –

         Pay no attention to people that take your opinion literally while they vehemently argue that police personell only said “we don’t need you to do that” regarding their direct question to Zimmerman as to whether or not he was following an unarmed black teenager who had committed no crime. Personally, I don’t bite their bullshT everything you say as a subhuman is literal while everything we say is philosophical way of thinking.

         For example, the nutjobs take [black teenaged girl] DeeDee’s 2-minute remark as evidence against her credibility while they take [white middleaged man] John’s stated 5-minutes account as credible.

     • If the flashlights appeared right away and were neighbors, when did the body move from a sprawl to the arms beneath as the cops found? Why didn’t John see the change in positions. The timings have to be so off in John’s account. We know that the two women talk to GZ first and they see the flashlight guys that they think are cops. SO likely the movement happened before flashlight guys got there in a time frame of seconds.

137. Ah, it is the other neighbor who asks about the 9mm, not John.

     • You’re saying “John” didn’t ask about the gun type? If so, was it Jeremy or some other unidentified male asking about it?

       • Yes, the gun asker is indicated as a different neighbor than John.

         [Another neighbor whose wife had been peering intermittently at the squabble soon came outside. He shined his flashlight on Zimmerman.]

         Also, if he was just having his head based on the sidewalk, why would he be surprised that there was blood on his face?

         [“Man, I got blood on my face?” Zimmerman asked, the witness told police on the night of the shooting.]

       • YAY good one, Toneii.

         “Man, I got blood on my face?” makes a LOT of sense if he knows his nose hurts like hell…………. from the recoil.

         If he was being repeatedly bashed, smothered etc he’d KNOW. And say the little azzhole broke his nose.

         Sounds like he wasn’t going to say that until he confirmed there was some visible damage.

138. From what I gathered from Wiki, 9mm and .40 are both nearly interchangeable bullets that are designed to have enough power without a heavy recoil.

     I believe the second witness referred to after John is Jeremy, the gun asker, flashlight guy, photo taker and wife caller.

     • From googling, “9mm vs .40 caliber” is a common question for hand gun buyers to discuss. A .40 is reputed to have more kickback, therefore most buyers go with a 9mm to allow faster recovery. A .40 makes a bigger hole, so some prefer it. Seems to be uncomfortable small talk between two guys who know hand guns.

       Jeremy and George Zimmerman call each other “man”. That doesn’t suggest a first name basis to me. Maybe some familiarity at best.

       At what point is Zimmerman shown with the cell phone up to his head? Is that before he is hand cuffed? Is that Jeremy’s photo? If Jeremy is calling Zimmerman’s wife, who is Zimmerman calling? His dad?

       • Dunno about that calling each other “man”. Here in Australia guys call each other “mate” all through normal conversations. They use the name only to call the other’s attention (“John, we’re over here”) or to specify which “mate” they mean (“John, your shout for the next round”).

         In this case, using “man” might be a way of covering, in public, how well they do know each other.

         The GZ-with-cell phone pic is the bloody head one taken with another cellphone. It would be before the cops got there. It will be VERY interesting to find out who he was calling, if/when the phone logs get published.

139. Let’s say all the witnesses are useless.

     Let’s say the only things in their testimony not “tampered” with are
     * the times recorded for their 911 calls, which tells us exactly when the shooting occurred
     * that they all stated something about an argument or a fight
     * the screaming for help, by someone, that was recorded on one of these calls

     Let’s leave in DeeDee. The only one not changed. The only one which, even if she’s been coached, states that TM was being followed. Now, nobody is going to invent such a story. It would not be enough to counteract a claim of SYG by GZ. But it fits with the known truth, from GZ’s own recorded police call.

     OK so let’s say the witnesses are more or less out.

     That still leaves us with the TIMINGS on GZ’s call, and how there’s a gap of nearly 2 minutes in which his whereabouts are not accounted for. At the end of that there is an argument, a fight and a shooting, in a location he is NOT AT by his own accountS.

     So it all comes back down to who started it.

     Who had motive? Someone trying to get home without being followed all the way? or someone already self-admittedly following a suspicious person?

     In a gun-toting society, would someone being followed by a creepy guy take the risk of attacking him, knowing there’s a good chance he is armed? would a guy who’s packing, chambered, hollow-point, feel less afraid to start a confrontation?

     ============
     Hey Prosecutors

     we also need
     * DNA off the photo button
     * check for BLOOD on the Honda keys

     DNA off the phone would have been nice, but they’d only get half a dozen cops’ now.

     • Aussie,
       Good points, I was expecting witnesses to shift a little, because after all they were unsuspecting witnesses. Witness no# 6 is bringing too much attention to himself almost like he would like to take everything back and not say anything at all. First he says young Martin was fighting MMA style, who says stuff like that? then he says I didnt mean it like that. I went and looked at mma style fighting on youtube and there was no way he could have mistaken this type of fighting. Witness#6 got very over zealous on that one. Nothing about young Martin from the autopsy report showed any rough abrasions, torn skin, beat up knuckles or anything, just a small cut above the knuckles. How do you fight and not leave bruising of your fists. Witness #6 just should have been straight forward from the begining. Now, that he come out and said this peopleare saying that Martin was taking martial arts classes etc. This is why if you are gonna speak up especially in a murder case you should know what you are talking about because there is no excuse for someone needing to over dramatize a murder. The other witnessess could possibly be stressed but that #6 urks me because he painted a very untrue picture. I find that if the person within a few minutes from their vehicle and actually by the end of the phone call with 911 would have actually been in that vehicle, ends up killing someone who was only 3 minutes or less from their place of residence then it seems like to me more than likely the person almost at their destination would be the one avoiding trouble. Zimmerman tells us he ran, he also tells us he pursued. If you pursue someone you aim to get them and he caught up with him.The witnesses wont hold much weight except for the friend on the phone in which Zimmerman validates her story and so does T mobile with the phone records. Zimmerman willfully took it upon himself to go after Martin because he had a gun. How many people who are scared of someone, chases them? He was perfectly safe in his truck. He chose to remove himself from his vehicle. Someone who loves to talk like he does must have run his mouth like crazy when he thought he was in the clear. Too bad we dont have xrays of that head and that nose from the emergency room.It is strange to me Zimmerman just went to the doctor for a return to work excuse, he evidently wasnt traumatized enough to stay out of work.

       • Agreed, Riisey.

         But the story is he gave up the chase and was innocently returning to his vehicle when he got jumped. He is not claiming he was scared when he left the car, only when he was being “beaten to death”, so the getting out part is okay.

         This is where his missing whereabouts become relevant. His supposed path to the vehicle was NOT along where everyone heard arguments and saw fights. So either he was still chasing at that point, OR TM with super-human strength jumped him and dragged him 30 yards down the path.

         The 911 calls are garbled, panicky, disjointed — but uncontaminated.

         Statements made to the police at the scene are almost uncontaminated. I say almost, as the police had already made up their minds about some things, eg the witness upset at not being able to help the dead kid was consoled with “it wasn’t him screaming for help, it was the other guy”.

         Statements made to the police in the following few days? certainly not influenced by TV coverage as there wasn’t any, at that time. Possibly influenced by the police, as some witnesses have already claimed. I think we’ll find people were interviewed or spoken with for half an hour to an hour, at the end of which a few minutes were recorded.

         (I know from before-recording days, there’d be the chat about what happened, then the story would be written up putting it all into time order. One year I was witness in 13 separate cases. I quit that job – I kept seeing too much).

         So if today the witnesses are unsure of who they saw, fact remains they did hear arguments before hearing/seeing fighting. So that blows the “jumped” argument out of the water.

         BUT… big but … GZ only has to prove his side IF he goes for the SYG defence pretrial. I don’t think he will. Then he can claim ordinary self-defence in a trial, in which the prosecution has to do the proving. The prosecution goes first. So it’s not enough to just “blow out of the water” a defence claim which officially, in the court, has not yet been made.

       • with the missing 2 minutes, zimmermans father said in the reenactment george walked all the way to the end of the path and back again where he was jumped by martin so that would be his explanation of the 2 minutes….however i think it is probably a safer bet that he walked all the way south and spotted trayvon near his house and the chase/arguing began. Can you imagine being followed by a crazy guy in a car and running away only to have him turn up on foot near your house? If zimmerman is correct and trayvon was the aggressor (i doubt it but IF..)then id say that zimmermans admission he went all the way south is enough to show that Martin was only standing his ground…Martin either led this guy away from his house or chased him away. If he didn’t have his keys on him i cant imagine he would knock on his back door and bring Chad out with this crazy guy there….oooooh i just had a creepy thought…trayvon ran and stood outside finishing his phone conversation..george walks all the way down the path, see’s martin at the back of the house and stops and watches in the dark, martin sees this guy watching him and then it begins. Of course that is just a made up scenario but it is possible, and lets face it, no matter what scenario or guess we come up with, Zimmermans actions are flat out creepy…..if anybody was there watching the whole thing unfold they would be concerned with zimmermans actions not Trayvons.

         • Yowser – even Zimmerman’s father admitted he continued stalking, harassing, and preying upon his unarmed neighbor walking home with snacks even after being told not to? That’s not good for his Stand Your Ground and/or self defense case.

       • well aparently he was “looking for a street sign”, although i don’t know why he would walk away from the street and down a path in the middle of a block of houses to find a street sign…especially in an area he patrols that only has 6 streets.

         • Right, George and Robert, a street sign. When, as instructed, Zimmerman should have been waiting in his parked vehicle for the responding officers.

140. Just in case anyone missed Caroline’s post on the other thread, since the meaning of NW keeps coming up:

     The manual warns that watch members should “not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity.” It should be emphasized to members of patrols, the materials state, that “they do not possess police power and they shall not carry weapons.” The consequences of not following the guidelines are severe, the manual states: “Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority.”

     So, according to official authorities GZ was engaged in criminal behavior!

     • I think you’re misinterpreting the rules. I agree that Zimmerman was way outside of bounds in stalhkiing and murdering Trayvon Martin after he profiled him. But the rules, imo, are simply saying that the NW program does not have your back if you choose to be a vigilante.a hey don’t seen to be saying that you are a criminal for merely not following their rules. They are just saying that you better not do it and expect us to back your dumbarse (no not you, Zimmerman or any other idjit vigilante).

       • That’s a point that lawyers try to make, since it seems like a reasonable one. However, if you read the supporting history of the NW program, you realize there’s much, much more to these “guidelines” than them just “not having your back”. What they are actually advising the NW’er is that: If no actionable event results from your breaking these rules, you’ll probably get away with it. But, as far as “we” (the NSA) are concerned, if you break these rules your legal status is then “vigilante”.

         The history of NW which forced the NSA to promulgate these rules, is that they were forced to address and separate their program from any and all traces of vigilantism, because no community would sanction turning dangerous vigilante’s loose on their streets. Of course the law prohibits it as well. So, the “guidelines” are designed to separate the lawful NW, from the unlawful vigilante. They do this by drawing a bright line between the acts a NW may engage in and those that they must not, if they want to keep their activities within the boundaries of the law.

         Like any large, national organization, they can’t be responsible for everything everyone does in their name. But they can disavow actions that are outside of their “guidelines”. But, the history of NW makes it clear that the NSA has determined what is legally permissible action, from what is unlawful activity. Thus, when you cross their “guidelines” you become the “other”, the lawless, the outlaw, the vigilante. GZ willfully chose to be a vigilante that night! He did so when he stepped out of his car!

         Once GZ’s actions became the acts of an unlawful vigilante, with all that entails, he becomes responsible for everything that occurs while he is acting illegally.

         So, let’s look at the legal positions GZ took upon himself:

         1. Why did GZ cause TM to become concerned about being followed?
         Answer: Because he followed TM.

         2. Why did GZ not identify himself, when he knew he was causing his “suspect” to become concerned for his own safety?
         Answer: Because GZ was only interested in performing some kind of detective work!

         3. Why did GZ get out of his car?
         Answer: Because he wanted to conduct his own investigation!

         4. Why did GZ carry his firearm with him?
         Answer: Because he believed he might be faced with a dangerous situation.

         5. Why did GZ believe that he should know where TM was?
         Answer: Because he didn’t want this suspect to get away!

         6. What right did GZ have to not let the suspect get away?
         Answer: None!

         7. What right did GZ have to refuse to identify himself when discovered outside his car and challenged by the suspect?
         Answer: None!

       • ABC News reported (http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watchman-killed-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-guidelines/story?id=15955985) that George Zimmerman blatantly violated major principles of the National Neighborhood Watch Program, whose manual states:

         “It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous.”

         Chris Tutko, director of the National Sheriffs’ Association’s neighborhood-watch program, said the NSA discourages the carrying of weapons “to the point of saying you just can’t do it.” (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html)

         Miami Police Major Delrish Moss (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/v-fullstory/2712299/george-zimmerman-self-appointed.html) tells city-organized citizen’s patrols to leave the police aspirations and guns at home and focus on simply observing and reporting potential crime. Moss said, “In law enforcement, you always run into people who speak to you in cop jargon, in a way that you can tell they are some kind of frustrated cop. For the most part, they are harmless and just love police officers, but sometimes, these conversations can be alarming.”

         The Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/v-fullstory/2712299/george-zimmerman-self-appointed.html) quotes Dr. Laurence Miller, a Palm Beach County clinical psychologist who works with local police agencies. Dr. Miller said that he believes Zimmerman likely was acting out the “whole TV cop role in his head” when he confronted Trayvon. “A lot of people like the power and control that law enforcement officers have but with that comes a tremendous amount of responsibility,” Miller said, pointing out that a police officer is the only profession that can use “coercive physical force” or lethal force to subdue a suspected criminal. “People act like cowboys and like the power, but not the responsibility.”

         Despite all guidelines to the contrary, Zimmerman elected to chase down a terrified teenager, even after the 911 emergency dispatcher instructed Zimmerman not to do so. And the result? Zimmerman took Trayvon Martin’s life.

141. In,out,in,out,in,out,in,out light shirt, white shirt, red shirt, light, white, red, guy on top was punching, no holding, punching, holding, he had him pinned. The guy on top was vertical. then talks like the guy on top is horizontal .If I was standing up stright Bla Bla Bla one leg over the other leg, the guy on top was facing down. Lets see how can I explain It ??????????????????………………..???????????????????…… I was nerves. I ran up stairs my fiancee was behind me HA!!! My fiancee. Was anybody in the house with you? NO

     What is wrong with this guy? And whats up with his fiancee? Is she deaf dumb and blind? Man John gives me a headache.

     • “Was anybody in the house with you? NO.”

       Did “John” previously say nobody was with him when the shot rang out? Link/Source?

       If so, oh my god — he needs to come completely clean now. The truth will set you (well, at least your conscience) free.

     • Guys, you have to be serious and stop looking for bugs on John’s head. He was just a witness.

       John’s fiance was with him. She testified too.

       John fiance’s name is Amanda Selja. She owns the townhouse (1221 TTL) from where they both witness the incident.
       That evening, she was sitting on the floor working with IT on her work laptop next to Johnathan Good (they’re now husband and wife) who was watching tv. They heard the scuffle. He opened his door to have a look and saw TM on top of GZ. He warned them about calling 911.
       Even if he sounds confused concerning details of the events, there are 3 witnesses to confirm that he opened his door and shout at TM & GZ that he is about to call 911:
       1) his fiance [witness #17],
       2) the lady who cared about an elderly person [witness #19], &
       3) another female who was in her kitchen when everything happened [witness #1].

       Witness #1, who I believe is Jeannie Pilch, the wife of Jonathan Manalo (2861 RVC), specifically says “At the same time I was looking out, then the neighbor came out and he was like ‘what’s going on out there’…”

       • Why does “John” say he didn’t go outside, but then he admitted to being outside, and then the shot went off at 7:18:00 (when it went off 1+ minute earlier)?

         It’s impossible to mess up a detail like…”I was calling 911 when the shot was fired.” If you messed up (under oath), you’d say: “The shot went off and then I called 911 a few seconds, one minute, etc. later.”

       • NMLE,

         That was total panic overthere that evening. All witness messed up to some degree. All, without exception, have hard time making sense of what was going on. They have all been caught by surprise and none had enough vision or audition to get a clear sense of what was going on.

         I’m going to give as example the people at 1211, 1221 & 1231 TTL + 2841 RVC.

         1231 TTL is white t-shirt. To date no body make sense of the what t-shirt. She is certain about that although herself makes no sense of it. She was panicked and went hiding into her front bedroom (office as she calls it) from where she saw T. Smith arriving.

         1221 TTL. Amanda Selja (John’s fiance) was working on here laptop when it all started. She heard the commotion. She could say it was coming toward them but was unable to say from where (partial information). She couldn’t walk so she crawled to the stairways to hide upstairs and rather than calling 911, she (or John) called their neighbor (I guess Jeremy). This is erratic behavior. They finally called 911.

         1211 TTL. Jennifer & Jeremy. They heard the commotion moving toward them but they couldn’t see anything (partial information). While she was calling 911, he went to the kitchen looking for a knife planning to go out for checking (sign of fear). He dropped his plan at the gunshot and went upstairs for hiding.

         2841 RVC. Selene Bahadoor was just going out to walk her dog when she saw John talking to one person on the floor (partial information). As soon as she heard John say 911, she rushed back inside, closed her door and turned on the alarm (fear).

         • I definitely get it. When my wife passed out in the shower a few years ago, I called her friend first instead of 911. I’m not sure why but I’ll never make that type of mistake again.

           In fact, she made fun of me for calling her friend first instead of 911 until our car was broken into recently. As she saw it happening, I put on my shoes, asked her to call 911, went bolting out the door towards the dude, and came back but 911 hadn’t been called yet…she was just standing there in silence with a blank stare of disbelief.

           But, not to beat a dead horse, you would know when a shot was fired. It was either fired and then you called 911 seconds/minutes later. Or, it was fired as you were connecting with 911.

           “John” says – several times under oath – option 2 is the case. And, that’s obviously not true. And, he says he wasn’t outside before saying he was. And, he says cops (not just flashlights) showed up – “no lie” – 20 seconds after the shot when it was more like 1:30+ after.

           This all points to somebody that was outside as the scuffle was occurring and/or when the shot was fired. But, “John” doesn’t want to admit it for some reason. That reason could be as simple as — he’s paranoid, has watched way too many cop/court dramas, and doesn’t want to be even remotely associated with the scene of Trayvon’s murder.

           Well, then, say that, “John.” Since he’s presumably consulted with a lawyer, I think his concern is much greater than this though.

           I’m guessing there’s still a small/remote chance such an admission (Yes, I was outside during the scuffle/shot and here’s what happened…) would be acceptable. We’ll see what happens with “John” — he won’t have fun on the stand…at all.

     • I thought maybe they bleeped out her name…

     • Yeah. I caught and was kind of like hmmm, you left your fiancee in the dust as you ran. How manly, noble, whatever. Fact of the matter, though, he modified his story to remove the MMA bull he fantasized about. He claims to see Zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk one minute, then in the grass the next. In any event, he sees Martin restraining the armed gunman and hears no punches or head smashing.

     • @tchoupi –

       I hear what you’re saying. John’s statement (as reported by the media) prior to the evidence dump was something that raised eyebrows since it didn’t fit with everything else we knew. The evidence dump only confirmed that our flags were no raised for no good reason.

       A lot of people are drama queens and a lot of folks are impressioned by silly shows like cops, etc.

     • LOL! Jim, you summed it up! I said in my previous post that it was EXHAUSTING!!!

     • Lol…Jim, you summed it up! I said in an earlier post that his statement was EXHAUSTING!!!

       • Yup, I read your comment before I listened to the video, I said Tina was right EXHAUSTING!!! It made me dizzy…… LOL!!!!

142. “Did “John” previously say nobody was with him when the shot rang out? Link/Source?”

     No, I don’t think so. I was just referring to the 55 min. interview when the guy asked him if anybody was with him in the house and he said no. One would think he would of said, just my fiancee or something like that. It’s like to him and anybody interviewing him she don’t exist. That marriage is going to last a long time. HA!!!! I would think she must know something, wouldn’t you think?

     I’m just ranting, John drives me nuts ; )

     • Wasn’t she on crutches, too, so she had to crawl up the stairs.

       • “Wasn’t she on crutches”

         Oh man, the image I got in my head,…. Only the strong survive! HA!!

         Kidding aside, maybe that’s where John lost a minute or 2, helping his fiance and didn’t realize it, who knows?

         @Tchoupi, Thanx for the info on the fiance, I was beginning to think she was a ghost or something. ; )

         • “John” may have lost a minute or two doing anything but the shot – no matter what – wouldn’t have been fired as he was connecting to 911.

           It would have been fired as he was doing XYZ right before calling 911.

           (Not in a confrontational tone but) Put yourself in “John’s” shoes and replay the events in your mind. It is impossible to say the shot was fired when you were connecting to 911 as you were running up the stairs unless that was the truth. Given the timing of the shot/his call, that wasn’t true.

       • @NLME, Yea, I just listened to the Orlando Sentinel video compliments of Tchoupi, Johns fiance said they both held up about half way up the stairs for some time hiding. John said he ran all the way up the stairs, like immediately, but she said no.

         • She keeps (rightfully) talking and they’ll be Exes soon enough, eh? Did she say anything else interesting?

           On that note, are her and/or any other witness accounts on YouTube yet? Haven’t been on a PC in days and YouTube’s search is horrible.

           • I don’t know why, but I somehow got the impression he was only after her house.

       • @NLME,….”Did she say anything else interesting?”

         Yes, She confirmed the fight started away and came closer and closer to them, but could not tell from what direction, just like John said.

         As far as new videos go the only new one I have seen is the one Tchoupi linked to Orlando Sentinel .com and it’s a good one. I really liked the one with DeeDee, When she said TM said “get off” the guy said, we want the truth and she said it was the truth with some conviction or at least coming from DeeDee it sounded like conviction. DeeDee sounds kind of weak most of the time if you know what I mean.

       • I don’t know about being exes but I know their plan was be married within weeks of the killing:

         http://registry.weddingchannel.com/coupledir/20123/G/R322092284/JOHNATHAN_GOOD_AND_AMANDA_SELJAN.htm

         Amanda & John, If you’re reading, I want you to know that I wish you a long and happy marriage.

       • NLME,

         “She keeps (rightfully) talking and they’ll be Exes soon enough, eh?”

         ==========================================

         I wouldn’t be so sure. According to public records, seems like old Johnny boy hooked him a bride (his fiance’) on 3/31/12, approximately 1 month after Trayvon’s murder.

         T. G.

143. The OrlandoSentinel has a nice collection of recorder witness statements. I’m not sure if I already shared that with you guys. Sorry if I didn’t. Here is the link: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/

     ######

     Witness #13 is flashlight aka photographer. From his statement he clearly says that he was talking with GZ while Officer T. Smith was there. So, they were all together and T. Smith missed reporting on that 2nd man. When the pix of GZ’s head came out, I posted about that and said that I would hate it if the conclusion ends up being that we can’t trust police report. Now, I’m sure I can’t trust it.

     Wit #13: “After a short period of time, he just asked me calling his wife as he was being handcuffed”.

     Who is wit #13?
     It’s not Johnathan Good aka John aka wit #6 (1221 TTL). I confirm it’s not his voice.
     It’s not Jeremy (1211 TTL – wit #20) either. I made that hypothesis some times ago and I was wrong. Jeremy has a different voice too.

     Since he has to be coming from nearby the crime scene and since Selma (2831 RVC – wit #16) & the Lady who care about an elderly (2821 RVC – wit #) saw nobody coming from the south side of the path, there is not many possibilities: 2861 RVC => Jonathan Manalo the Philippians.

     That all makes sense to me now. He is the Asian man who also helped police when they were trying to save TM. His wife/fiance (Jeannie Pilch – wit #1) is also the one who said she knows GZ and who stated that she can picture him confronting someone he sees as a threat to the neighborhood. I believe he is the guy who went on AC360 (cf. video below) and claimed a resident went out with a flashlight.

     So, Manalo would have been out less than a minute after the gunshot. He took pictures of GZ’s head and helped him calling his wife. Finally, he would have helped police supplying a plastic bag and other stuff to CPR TM. My problem is that police let him go with GZ;s cellphone.

     Trayvon Martin shooting witness breaks silence

     #####
     Witness #20. Jeremy (1211 TTL) as what may be a key information that is that they heard the scuffle to the left of their backyard. That would mean, coming from the north.
     To that statement, you have to add that of Amanda’s. She said that she could hear the scuffle moving toward them.
     You can also add the fact that the Honda keys were found near the T.
     You can add that TM had his ice tea, photo button & headphone in his pocket while they weren’t moments before.
     Finally, you can add that the lady @ 2821 RVC saw people running north before the fistfight, that the teacher identifies a significant gap of time between the first argument and the cries for help.

     So, after you added all this, you can better picture the longer scenario that we’ve already started to sketch that his:
     1) TM walks north toward the T chased by GZ,
     2) Somewhere near 2851 RVC they start arguing while still moving north.
     3) Seconds later, near the T, GZ caches up with TM.
     4) A first physical encounter occurs. GZ is temporary neutralized giving time to TM to collect and stuff in his waistband his items that fell to the ground.
     5) TM heads back south probably his cell phone in hand when GZ jumps back on him moving the scuffle back near 1221 TTL.
     6) TM pins GZ to the ground and is finally shot.

     All indices/statements point toward a longer scenario that also occurred on a larger area than what GZ stated (I mean for what has leaked so far). I wish his statements were not sealed.

     • As always, wonderful observation/comment. Especially…

       “Witness #13 is flashlight aka photographer. From his statement he clearly says that he was talking with GZ while Officer T. Smith was there. So, they were all together and T. Smith missed reporting on that 2nd man. When the pix of GZ’s head came out, I posted about that and said that I would hate it if the conclusion ends up being that we can’t trust police report. Now, I’m sure I can’t trust it.”

     • yep great stuff on the witnesses, #13 sounds interesting and i remember your comment about how dissapointed you’d be if the SPD didn’t mention this witness. Sad indeed. Its always interesting reading your posts.

     • Yes, we have to remember that some of these police were already on the side of their friend GZ from the start. Now that we know that the crime scene they documented had already been altered by GZ, there’s not much left of value, that GZ can point to, in support of his defense claims.

       How, would you as a juror, look at a defendant who had taken pains to alter the crime scene, then subsequently claim to have been so upset and confused by these events and the terribly life threatening beating he had received, that he scarcely knew what he was doing?

       Too bad we don’t have all of GZ’s statements, the ones about what evidence proves what would be very interesting indeed.

     • Thanks guys.

     • @Tchoupi, Great info thanx. I’m wondering about the AC360 video link above, I’m kind of confused, I believe that is witness #18, the teacher and the link below is also #18 about a week later. As you may remember she’s the one with the long 911 call that said she was a teacher and she is also the one that put her phone to the screen. Am I wrong?

       Eyewitness to the Trayvon Martin shooting speaks out

       • Jim,

         There are 2 ac360 interviews of 2 different witnesses.
         I assume the 2nd one, aired on Apr 7th, is of the teacher.
         Until I listened the 1st one (Mar 29th) again, I was assuming the 1st one is of Jonathan Manalo. Now, I wonder who it is. Any help on that is welcomed.

         CNN introduces the witness at the 2nd interview as being a new one. Moreover, the person talking at the first ac360 interview is more assertive than the one shown in Apr. The 1st witness hides his/her voice and his/her face while the 2nd allows her profile to be shown. Therefore, I’m fairly confident that these are 2 peoples.

         The 2 accounts are very similar but different enough to make me believe that the 2nd ac360 witness is the Teacher. Do you agree? I’m really interested in being challenged.

         What the 1st witness says he/she saw/heard indicates he/she was in one of the 6 houses nearest to the crime scene (1211, 1221 & 1231 TTL or 2861, 2851 & 2841 RVC).
         Personally, I would exclude all TTL witnesses. These are Jennifer/Jeremy, Amanda/Johnathan & white-t-shirt. They all hid upstairs. We know there stories and known claimed seeing/hearing anything before the scuffle really started.
         I would exclude 2851 RVC as this is the teacher and we know she was alone in her house.
         So, remains 2861 & 2841 RVC.
         At 2861 RVC lives Jonathan Manalo, his wife Jeannie Manalo/Pilch, his step sister Juvie Pilch (all 3 are co-owners of the house). There are also Jeannie’s niece (per her account). She would be Sahlee Pilch. There is also an elderly man (Frederick Pilch) and his wife (Sally Pilch). Finally, there is another man in there (Matthew Pilch). I have no idea on how so 7 people live in a 3BR/1400sq.ft, but by the facts, they all have the address 2861 Retreat View Cir, Sanford FL. From that address, we know the accounts of 2 people that have been interviewed by police: Jonathan aka flashlight/photographer, & the cook (probably Jeannie). Jonathan said police he saw nothing prior to the gunshot. The cook says she saw/heard a lot thanks to her partially opened window. The person on ac360 says the window was closed.
         At 2841 RVC lives and works Selene Bahadoor. She is the one I believe saw the shadows of persons running north. She could be the person interviewed on Mar 29th.

     • @Tchoupe, This is text from below the 4/7 video.

       “She spoke to us last week on the air, on condition we preserve her anonymity. Tonight she came in person to our bureau for an interview, and she had a lot more to say. She spoke with Ashleigh Banfield about what she saw and heard the night of February 26. To conceal her identity, we are showing her only in shadow.”

       I agree, the 4/7 video is definitely the teacher. If the 3/29 video is not the teacher then I can’t find the interview she did the week before. I agree, the 3/29 witness sounds a little more assertive then the 4/7 one but that maybe because the second interview was in person, more formal. For example, take DeeDee, when she did a press interview on the phone back in march she was very assertive, very out spoken, but you put her in a strange room with somebody with some authority she sounds like a mouse.I’m leaning towards the 3/29 video being the teacher but still agree it’s questionable.

       • I’m late to the party but the AC 360 guest that was disguised in a deeper/male sounding voice – below – was definitely the person with the emotional 911 call aka the teacher. They used the same phrases/responses but I don’t have any specific examples to site (though I can re-listen to both the 911 call and interview while taking notes applicable).

         AC 360 interview…

         Note: My portion of the BccList.com data dump is all but completed. I’ve received info from 2 other volunteers and will post something within the next few days. This being said, all the “evidence” will thankfully be in one sport SOON enough!

       • Thanks guys. For some reason I missed the connection they made between the 2 interviews one week apart.
         Conclusion, both interviews are from the teacher.

       • Both CNN interviews are the Teacher. As NLME says, her speech rhythms and word choices match from interview to interview to 911 call. I know what her name is and where she lives, but I do not want to divulge it here. I can say that I believe the profile visible in her interview with Banfield is heavily disguised, and I don’t think she looks anything like that.

         There is one significant inconsistency in her interviews: she tells both Cooper and Banfield that she was on the phone with the 911 operator when the gunshot went off, but she clearly was not.

         Other than that, her accounts are more consistent from interview to interview and from the interviews to the 911 call. She has been derided on TalkLeft and other pro-Zimmerman sites as being too ‘confused’ to be credible, because she is clearly emotionally distraught during her 911 call. However, she is the only 911 caller who stayed at her window throughout the incident, instead of retreating into the interior of her townhome, relating events to the 911 operator AS THEY OCCURED, and moreover she was being honest and careful by stating at the time what she could clearly and what she could not see clearly. She doesn’t say “I don’t know what’s happening” because she’s ditzy, but because with the darkness and distance she couldn’t see the exact details.

         It’s also important to note that she felt manipulated by Chris Serino to the point that she hired an attorney, who acted as her go-between with CNN. The attorney also commisioned a private investigator named John Wright to take a full statement from her, which is what you will find on pp. 89-101 of the document dump .pdf.

         Knowing who she is, and with a bit of Google, I’m guessing she might be a more persuasive witness than then the pro-Zimmerman folks think. This is what she looked like in 1980:
         
         And. yes, that’s a legitimate “Team USA” t-shirt.

         • The teacher called 15 ish seconds after the shot and used past tense verbs during her 911 call — she’ll be ok on the witness stand even if she doesn’t adjust the story she gave Cooper and Banfield by a few seconds.

       • To Whonoze,

         What an excellent breakdown! I totally agree with your assessments and observations of the former school teacher, and pretty much came to the same conclusions. For a lack of a better choice of words, I’ll just call her Mrs. Kravitz, from “Bewitch”, the nosey neighbor who never misses anything.

         I remember when I first heard her 911 (tapes on the City of Sanford’s website), first thing came to mind was that she will make a good witness once she calms down, especially after I heard her say what I think was , “Oh that young boy”, “I never thought I’d see someone get shot”, or words to that effect.

         On the most recent release of her statement, she sounds much younger than her 911 call, or more assured. She’s definitely a keeper.

         T. G.

144. NMLE,

     This is a clearer picture of the truck on TTL. We can see that there are in fact 2 trucks.

     

     • Nice zoom pic! What’s up with the 2nd (or furthest) truck? It’s HUGE!

     • great shot. So George was parked on the right hand side…how he saw what was going on around the corner puzzles me…was he on the move, had he driven past several times before calling the police etc. Another question, what side of the road was trayvon walking on? There is no path on the right side, and i can’t see the left. Looking at that photo i just can’t picture what was happening, i always imagined he was walking on the right (the right of this photo) to get to the cut off. Another question, everyone in the neighbourhood seems to have a really big dog (zimm included) but no one seems to have an enclosed back yard, how does that work?

145. This may have been discussed earlier.
     In the evidence dump (http://www.scribd.com/doc/93960335/Documents#fullscreen) pg 20, Investigator Serino states TM’s headphone was next to his body and the photopin was on his sweatshirt. In other words, they weren’t in his pocket. Therefore, only the ice-tea can magically moved from the tan plastic bag to his waistband.

     • tchoupi

       what do you make of this?

       In that same statement you refer to, p20 or just below. (marked 2/7) .. there is Serino’s statement. He describes walking through the scene. Then he mentions (on a different date) determining what type/make of firearm had been found.

       Below that and dated 3/19/12 is a portion of a statement that is clearly NOT Serino’s, as it refers to Serino in the third person. It is not signed. It’s about the “scream” tape being played to Tracy Martin.

       Does that look like something Serino may have written up for someone else to “state”?

       Does that show up anywhere else in the dump with a name attached? I can’t see it.

       • The 3/19/ portion seems to be from Leon H Ciesla who typed the report. (see the previous page, 19) He puts in the official case notes for Smith and Serino, it looks like. So I attribute the statement reading “I heard” this or that to be directly from him.

       • Aussie,

         Apparently, Serino just pasted someone else’s report to his. I believe I’ve read that account before, but I can’t recall where. It may not be in the evidence dump.

         Thanks

     • I agree it is a clerical error – only the lighter was in his pocket. The headphones suggests that TM was pushed to the extent that it pulled the headphone jack from the phone.

146. I think I saw this elsewhere in the evidence dump, too, but this version is easier to read

     http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-21/news/os-trayvon-sanford-police-timeline-20120521_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-timeline-investigator-chris-serino

     the SP “timeline” for what happened, baldly stating the screaming was from Zimmerman.

     What kind of cops are these? haven’t they ever heard the word “allegedly”????

     • This timeline is grossly erroneous, and the Sentinal knows it…

       Orlando Sentinel bases story on faulty info in police report, refuses to make correction.

147. Homeowners Association Could Be Liable in Trayvon Martin’s Death

     One big question at stake in the trial of George Zimmerman for the killing of Trayvon Martin is whether Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” self-defense laws will shield Zimmerman from conviction, as well as subsequent civil action by Martin’s family. However, regardless of Zimmerman’s fate, the homeowners association in the gated community where Martin was killed could be liable for the teenager’s death.

     Zimmerman was the official watch captain for the neighborhood
     Questions abound about training and guidelines put forth by association
     Homeowners associations liable for incidents in their communities

     Captain of the Guard

     When George Zimmerman prowled through the neighborhood looking for suspicious people in The Retreat at Twin Lakes in central Florida, he wasn’t acting totally out of the blue. Zimmerman was officially identified as the captain of the neighborhood watch in a newsletter distributed by the community’s homeowners association. Homeowners with concerns were encouraged to contact Zimmerman “so he can be aware and help address the issue with other residents.” READ MORE

     • Listen to the HOA board member’s responses to questions about Zimmerman representing the community as the neighborhood watch captain. I hope Trayvon Martin’s family does sue them.

148. Re: The truck pic. That’s a Nissan Titan.

     • First truck is a Nissan for sure. What’s the 2nd – or furthest – truck? It’s west/directly in front of the Nissan and huge.

       • Some kind of a commercial, heavy duty truck. Maintenance of some kind, most likely.

       • I think it’s a Honda Pilot, but I’m not sure. See #121 above for a pick of the Honda Pilot. Some are saying it looks like the Honda Element, but I don’t see that.

     • Agree, it’s a Nissan Titan.

       It seems to me that the 2nd one is facing the 1st one (facing east).
       I guess the conclusion is that we don’t have GZ’s truck on picture.

       The truck + the cell phone are at least to items owned by GZ that we don’t find in the list of evidences.

       • oh no, did they let him take his cellphone home??

         Well, no matter, forensics can recover deleted messages. And then the fact that they were deleted is suspicious in itself.

         Then if it turns out he’s “lost” that phone and has a new one……….

149. I am curious to know what the witnesses heard in the argument. Like what words were exchanged.

     • From what I’ve listened to thus far, they couldn’t make out the words to the arguments. One witness says she may have heard “yo, yo” or it could have been “no, no” after someone ran by her window.

150. The defense lawyer blog TalkLeft.com has a problem using the word allegedly also. Zimmerman is the one screaming in their scenarios too, with no qualifiers offered to even suggest it may have been Treyvon.

     I believe some people are finding it too painful to speculate that George might have actually been stalking prey that night. They cannot accept the idea that George may have grabbed Treyvon by his clothes in a fit of pique after being subdued briefly by this boy. Then that George held on to the hysterically screaming child while he lined up a perfect kill shot. These are the words folks have trouble mouthing out loud. It’s just too evil.

     Absence of any real GZ injury, i.e. no medical proof of injuries other than a scraped nose and a couple of shallow scratches on the back of his head; no GZ DNA on Treyvon’s hands; straight-in shot to the body at intermediate distance; bullet holes in the clothing at chest level whereas the heart shot was below the nipple; Treyvon screaming for help for almost a minute; GZ’s unruffled clothing and demeanor at the police station; GZ vitals at normal 40 min. after the shot; clear gun cocking sound on GZ’s 911 call; George running in pursui on 911 call; I’m sure many of you could offer more . . . We have enough information already. It’s just that the crime is too heinous.

     I saw somewhere there is another evidence dump tomorrow. True?

     • “We have enough information already. It’s just that the crime is too heinous.”

       100% Agreed

       • Most especially when you put together the facts that say TM was a “mild child”. A merry soul, cheerful, respectful without a mean bone in his body.
         We’ve all known people like that. This was one of your “Mr. Rogers Neighborhood” children. Part of his cheerfulness would be, because his size at 5’11” would keep bullies at bay automatically, thus no travesty to darken his persona. Other kids would like his easy going, non threatening style, and his size would likely be a protector of them as well. I sincerely doubt TM would throw any blows at anyone, the personality traits for that, even among his peers, is nowhere in evidence. Which is only reinforced by the autopsy report.

         GZ on the other hand has a well developed dark side! You see it several times on display in his bio. He is prone to fits and compulsions. He’s not carrying a weapon for nothing, he’s doing so because he expects that at some time, he will have to kill some one for some reason, and he’s prepared to do it!

     • I don’t care too much for the talkleft.com blog. The owner of the blog repeatedly disallows evidence in favor of Trayvon’s innocence and accepts unchallenged the non-sense Zimmerman supporters throw out there. She doesn’t accept DeeDee’s statements about Trayvon possibly being pushed, for example, but she posted a “most likely scenario” that makes excuses for Zimmerman. The author of the blog also relies heavily on witness 11, the HOA board member who captures the shot while she’s on the 9-1-1 calls.

       Witness 11 is the caller who was yelling at Jeremy to “get in here” on the 9-1-1 call. Witness 11 says she knows George Zimmerman through the HOA. She said she believes George Zimmerman would confront someone while on neighborhood watch duty. She sounded like she thinks that would be all fine and dandy. She said she wasn’t present the day the Neighborhood Watch meeting on Thursday, September 22, 2011.

       Here’s the kicker.. Witness 11 described George Zimmerman’s face as so badly beaten that he was unrecognizable at the crime scene. Problem is, that’s a lie and everyone knows it since the video of George Zimmerman being escorted through the police station that same night showed only minor scratches. Her taped statements were given to police before the video evidence was released, so maybe she didn’t know the world would know she was lying.

       Here are her recorded statements: http:// [redacted]. axiomamnesia . com/people/witnesses/witness-11-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/

       • Ugh — This is super interesting and I will do my best to make sure I immediately post an update whenever the witness recordings are released to the public but for the time being I need to redact portions of the Axiom Amnesia link in your comment. Yes, the part redacted is super easy to figure out. Ha!

         I don’t (necessarily) mind posting YouTube links of said interviews but – as mentioned – I have an issue (call me crazy) with posting Axiom Amnesia links.

       • @NLME –

         Sorry to link to a non-mainstream “news” source. They just happened to have all the links I was looking for. What’s your reluctance? I haven’t see the vids/tapes on you-tube yet. I think axiomamnesia got the ealvidence upon requesting it. There’s a link on talkleft (I think) that goes to the city/state officials that will provide you with the publicly released evidence. I don’t have a way to vet info on the web given Florida releases info to the press-only and we know that *everybody and their mother is a “news” org just like Fox claims.

         • Cease and desist letters scare me. 🙂 The info on Axiom Amnesia was leaked and not obtained legally, correct?

       • I have no way of knowing if AxiomAmnesia’s website comprises legally obtained information or leaked info. I assumed that since it is still up and accessible (and available for commerce), it is a valid site posting information and media obtained legally.

         I’d check to see if the cease and desist were a real letter or a fake. Stranger things have happened than folks sending faked letters written on legal stationary to scare people. I find it hard to understand why a website hoping to drive traffic to their own site would discourage links to the site. In any event, it probably doesn’t hurt to redact links just in case.

         • To clarify: I haven’t received a cease and desist letter and I’m doing everything possible to make sure that remains the case. 🙂

     • Bullies need no provocation, they work themselves up to fits. All they need is a target who is weaker and incapable of self defense. TM would not need to attack GZ to make him angry, just refuse to answer his “what are you doing here?” Of course, since he has not identified himself, TM has no reason to trust him, given his behavior is not of a “friendly neighborhood watcher”. But that of an assailant of some kind, seeking more information.
       If you watch crime shows you’ve no doubt noted that people who are surprised to find someone around, who might have witnessed the crime they committed, also ask this question “what are you doing here?” Since it’s important for them to know if you witnessed what they’ve done.

       Of course, this thinking probably wasn’t in the front of TM’s mind, but clearly he felt threatened. Without a reason for this, he could only guess that GZ had committed a crime and may have been trying to get rid of a possible witness. GZ certainly acts in exactly that manner.

151. So I have read through both blogs and the only conclusion I have reached is: there is no conclusion. All of the speculation about what George was thinking and how to fill the gaps of missing information amount to very little. More evidence is clearly necessary to adequately reconstruct the events of that night. I commend NMLE for the efforts to create an objective compilation of the facts and evidence to complement his original goal of mapping the area. All of the comments trying to imagine what may or may not have happened or which players had nefarious motives is senseless and crowding this blog. GZ admitted he killed Trayvon, now let’s allow the prosecutor to do her job and use the evidence to convict him. We should be focused on ways to prevent scenarios such as this from happening again in our own communities, not on playing “lawyer” with the limited evidence presented to the public. We can’t save Trayvon, but we can save our own children from falling prey to the same fate. GZ may or may not feel the wrath of justice, but we owe it to Trayvon’s memory to do our part. Do not make a martyr out of Trayvon; his tragic death should be a catalyst for change, not as a poster child whose image is exploited but instead as a reminder of those who suffer similar fates at the hands of ambiguous laws designed to appease the NRA and other blind gun rights advocates. In Arizona they have Daniel Adkins, in Florida it’s Trayvon, and in other states there are cases that don’t receive the deserved widespread media exposure. Though the discussion of race is clearly a hotly contested issue, we should not forget that it begins with unjust laws.
     “It is the law of love that rules mankind. Had violence, i.e. hate, ruled us we should have become extinct long ago. And yet, the tragedy of it is that the so-called civilized men and nations conduct themselves as if the basis of society was violence.” – Gandhi

     • Good post.

     • That said (and well said I may add), I think what we’re trying to do is familiarize ourselves with the info we do have, and understand what theories it could represent. In that way, when the trial happens and new info is released, we’ll have sufficient context and understanding, to see what the implications are, without having to rely on the media to tell us what to think.

       The NSA, does not have the power to issue legislation, so they can only issue NW rules and guidelines. But those rules and guidelines follow, very closely, the questions at law, that would be the undoing of the NW programs. So, while they can’t say that it will be illegal to follow a suspect in every case, they can say that it should not be done, in your average: “No crime witnessed, suspect spotting and reporting” events.

       I’m sure they don’t want to stop people from responding to others in need of immediate assistance, nor quash the “hero” who might follow a person who has committed an actual crime. But, even for those situations they expect the NW’er to use discretion, and avoid putting themselves in danger as much as possible. Of course the number of events where a NW will actually witness a crime of such severity that the suspect should not be allowed to get away, will be much rarer than simple spot and report events.

       This was a simple “spot and report” event, that turned horribly wrong, because the NW took pains to make it happen that way! At several points along the way to this tragedy, as I’ve indicated, GZ chooses to escalate and cause a hostile situation to escalate, instead of trying to defuse it. There is no excuse for such behavior, NW’er or not!

     • Thank you for checking out the blog and commenting.

       You’re right — there are a lot of unknowns right now. Especially regarding the confrontation.

       The only thing we do know is that Zimmerman stalked, harassed, preyed upon and eventually murdered an unarmed teenage neighbor returning from the convenience store with some snacks. And, that’s what he’s being charged with. It’s up to a jury to eventually convict Zimmerman accordingly.

       As you mentioned, there are a lot of underlying issues that incidents like this have shed some light on. If the proceedings turn into a Casey Anthony and/or OJ Simpson shiat show, Trayvon’s murder could be entirely for naught.

152. Evidence dump page 42 – Who told Serino that George Zimmerman observed Trayvon Martin entering the community and walking between houses from the “northwest”? None of the witnesses on the scene would have known that. If it was George Zimmerman who said that’s how he noticed Trayvon, then he definitely had opportunity to follow Trayvon Martin down Retreat View Circle first before calling the police.

     This also gave Trayvon Martin an opportunity to describe Zimmerman to DeeDee as the creepy man following him. Trayvon Martin stops off at the mail shed/clubhouse, then plans how to get past the nut that followed him. The nutjob then makes a right onto Twin Trees, then a U-turn to continue “watching” the teen.

     This is why I think DeeDee said what she said. Some of it was from her earlier conversation with Trayvon Martin — the 18-minute call.

     • That’s a big finding CSFC. Thanks

       The issue is that TM should have entered the complex long before GZ’s none-emergency call. TM left the 7-11 around 6:24. It takes about 15min to walk from there to the mailboxes.

       DeeDee’s testimony also suggests he was pretty early at the mailboxes:
       POLICE OFFICER: OK, yeah, tell me what happened as he’s talking to you when he’s leaving the store on his way back home.
       GIRLFRIEND: It started raining.
       POLICE OFFICER: It started raining, and did he go somewhere?
       GIRLFRIEND: Yeah, HE RAN to the, um, mail thing.
       POLICE OFFICER: Like, I’m sorry, what?
       GIRLFRIEND: Like a mail, like a shed.
       POLICE OFFICER: Like a mail—like a shed, like a mail area?
       GIRLFRIEND: Yeah, yeah.
       POLICE OFFICER: Like a covered area, because it was raining?
       GIRLFRIEND: Yeah.
       POLICE OFFICER: So did he tell you he was already inside, like, the gated place?
       GIRLFRIEND: Yeah. He ran in there.
       POLICE OFFICER: OK, and what—
       GIRLFRIEND: That’s when the phone HANG UP.
       POLICE OFFICER: OK. I’m sorry.
       GIRLFRIEND: The phone hung up, and I CALLED him back again.
       POLICE OFFICER: And what else did Trayvon tell you?
       GIRLFRIEND: And like—
       POLICE OFFICER: And I know this is difficult for you, but just take your time and tell us what you remember happened.
       GIRLFRIEND: A COUPLE MINUTES LATER, like, he comes and tell me this man is watching him.
       …

       TM’s call log can be used to line-up with her testimony:
       6:30 call to North Dade, FL (13min). This must be TM calling DeeDee on his way from the 7-11.
       6:41 incoming call (4min). TM puts DeeDee on hold, but she/he finally hangs up around 6:43. TM must be arriving in the gated community around that time.
       6:45 call to North Dade, FL (5min). TM calls back DeeDee.
       6:46 call to none-t-mobile North Dade, FL (2min). TM puts DeeDee on hold. The call hangs up at before 6:50.
       6:49 Incoming call (4min).
       6:53 call to North Dade, FL (1min). TM calls DeeDee. It seems he gets the voicemail, leaves a message and hangs up.
       6:54 call to North Dade, FL (1min). TM calls DeeDee. Same as the minute before.
       6:54 Incoming call (18min). DeeDee calls back seconds after TM 2nds attempt. They talk for 18min.
       7:04 incoming call from a none-t-mobile phone (1min). TM puts DeeDee on hold and goes back to her around 7:05. This call will last until 7:12. This is the period when GZ places his call to SPD. it is also the period when TM starts walking toward GZ’s truck, passes by it and starts running.
       7:12 Incoming call (4min). DeeDee calls back immediately. This is the period when TM is running away, looses GZ, is chased again to finally be killed.

       As I understand it, TM tells DeeDee about GZ soon (a couple of minutes) after she calls back. She calls back at 6:54, 15min before GZ’s call to SPD!!!

       TM call history shows one thing: GZ kept an eye on TM for a significant time before calling SPD. We’re talking of about 15min. More significantly, DeeDee’s testimony doesn’t suggest TM noticed GZ at the time he entered the gated community around 6:39. If ever GZ testified on seeing TM entering the community, it would mean that he followed and observed him for a good 30min before calling SPD.

       This is a really long time. Since I’ve read Manalo’s testimony about GZ talking of the killing as if it was not a big deal, I’ve started to challenge my views (the whole stuff being an accident) and started to think that he may have planned it. Obviously, it’s just an hypothesis I entertain and it happens that the long observation period GZ spent allowed him to plan it.

       • If it started raining, he could have sat down at the store, or in some shelter at another nearby store (?) to wait it out, then decided to run home as it wasn’t going to let up.

         The entry from north-west corner is what we’ve been thinking for a long time. It’s the only way GZ would have time to observe TM enough to match his phone description. It also fits with GZ being tipped off by someone living on that corner.

         On this timeline from DeeDee, they need to look at incoming calls to GZ a good 30-35 minutes before his 911 call. Including from Taaffe, who lives there and is the likeliest tip-off.

         Does GZ’s vehicle have GPS? does his phone? Find out what time he LEFT HIS HOUSE.

         If he did leave as the result of a tip-off, why go armed? when NW is not supposed to be? this would kill the “only going to Target where allowed to be armed” line.

         So, if it turns out he watched TM for 15 mins before calling the police, what made him decide to call them? surely that’s enough time to see it’s just a kid sheltering from the rain and talking on the phone?

         @ tchoupi, I still don’t think “planned” is the word. It’s just be anger building up and building up….and made by worse by having to wait in the cold and the rain and just wait, and the little azzhole doesn’t even DO anything to make the wait worthwhile, and heck it’s going to make him miss the big game to keep waiting…….and it’s all the little azzhole’s fault (everything in poor GZ’s life has always been someone else’s fault, if you really look at it).

         • Given how much Taaffe was talking to the media, I can’t imagine a Zimmerman call to/from him between — let’s say — 6:30 pm – 7:30 pm. CB radio transmission or equivalent is another story.

       • re Taaffe not talking if he’d called GZ???

         why not, considering the chutzpah of both these guys?

         On their timelines, don’t forget, this whole thing “started” only after GZ hung up with the police. No reason for them to imagine things would be looked at as far back as 6.30. If it was talk, not text message, it can always be covered by being about something else.

         Too much coincidence for GZ to come across TM on that corner just by accident, on his way to Target (half an hour earlier than he says he went).

         • He’d be the stupidest criminal ever. But, I guess you’re right — nothing would shock me with either of these 2 guys. Taaffe has – to the best of my knowledge – STFU since being named by Angela Corey as a witness. I think this was noted by another commenter — correct me/us if wrong.

           • Remember, whatever ideas or views they had of how the SPD would work this case, they were right… At least for the first 46 days.

             Before charges were filed, and after the public clamor began growing, my guess is they figured that the SPD would be successful in defending the position it took, and therefore run interference for them. Thus, they figured that the police could handle the public outrage and they’d come out ahead anyway in the end. After all, by their guesstimates the most critical pieces of
             evidence were uncollected, and there just weren’t that many eyewitnesses who had a clear view of anything much at all.

             Taaffe and GZ probably figured that after the hoopla died down, the officials would admit that the case had been botched so badly, that there was nothing that could be salvaged. Thus, under that view, this time in the media spotlight was something to be taken advantage of for posterity.

       • im starting to wonder about a few things myself. Some of it far fetched but it’s got me scratching my head. I think we started to wonder if GZ had seen martin enter from between the houses at the NW corner because he HAD to have been watching martin for a while before calling SPD or he would have no knowledge of this suspicious behaviour he apparently saw. But if this was a common route used by local teenagers then that in itself could not be deemed unusual or suspicious behaviour…that’s where all the local kids enter i’m sure. I’m starting to think that although Zimmerman likely didn’t plan this,i think he must have been itching for a confrontation. To find suspicion in Trayvon Martin walking home like he did, he must have been wanting Trayvon Martin to be suspicious. Maybe he was out on patrol because he had an argument/fight at home, maybe he was seething already. In the phone call it sounds like this kid was really up to no good (we now know that isn’t true), Zim was really exaggerating every little movement, but in the light of day it seems he was just playing out his own fantasies of taking down the bad guy. I can imagine that during the minutes before Martin was shot and killed George Zimmerman must have really felt alive with adrenalin and a sense of purpose, more so than ever….I don’t know if anyone else gets the feeling that he has a superiority complex but in my eyes it’s obvious. He wants to be a cop, he studies crime, he goes on ride alongs and then stands up and publically chastises these same authority figures who he very much wants to be a part of. I just don’t think it would take much to set him off on some power trip if he had a bit of wounded pride or something. His wife yelling at him, his boss questioning him, something like that. So he was out looking for someone to dominate, maybe didn’t plan on shooting anyone but i think it was his anger issues/superiority issues that meant someone was going to cop his wrath that night, unfortunately for Trayvon Martin it ended very badly.

       • Yes, yes, yes… I got the impression that there was some kind of planning going on long ago. It’s just too much of a coincidence that GZ would just happen to be going to the store, in the rain, and just luck up on meeting TM who has been moving at variable speeds because of the rain.

         Remember I said that GZ, if really on an errand to shop, on a rainy night to boot, he’d have been out the gate in about 1 minute or less. In the area where TM would be available for being viewed, GZ would have spent a grand total of 5 seconds or less. That five seconds would have to coincide with the 20 to 30 seconds that TM would be where he could be seen easily.

         So that was my first impression. Now it’s appearing to be firming up.

         • “Remember I said that GZ, if really on an errand to shop, on a rainy night to boot, he’d have been out the gate in about 1 minute or less”

           I bet Zimmerman was headed to Target, but being Mr. Big Vigilante, he drove his neighborhood looking for vile desperados first.

       • Yep @ tchoupi –

         Zimmerman watched/followed for about 15 minutes. On that note, where’s Zimmerman’s wallet reported in the evidence dump? I saw this question raised on another blog and thought, hmm, good question. If Zimmerman was on his way shopping at Target (or using code for going out to “target” prey), where’s his wallet presumably to pull his cash/credit card out to pay for purchases?

         Did he leave it in the SUV which the SPD didn’t confiscate? Did his wife retrieve the wallet and other vehicle evidence before the police got a chance to check it out since the police didn’t know at the time that Zimmerman had stalked Trayvon Martin by car before he stalked Trayvon Martin on foot? Did Zimmerman’s IDs and credit cards bear his own name and addresses? What else may have been in the SUV before Zimmerman’s wife moved it?

     • Taaffe? Could he have been out there? Could he be the reason TM had to turn back north with GZ merely waiting for him to arrive near the T?

       • I previously wondered why Zimmerman would leave his vehicle with the keys in the ignition.

         Given what we know about Zimmerman’s paranoia and anxiety, this isn’t behavior you’d expect. Well, unless he carried an extra set of keys and could lock one set in the car.

         Who does that though? You’d think he’d just pull the keys out of the ignition, lock the door, and go about his hunt.

         Light bulb goes off…

         Unless there was somebody waiting in the truck. Without being said, Zimmerman’s phone records could be interesting. Unless, as previously mentioned, the Neighborhood Watch gang used CB radios to communicate.

         As also previously mentioned, I don’t imagine there are any calls to/from Taaffe between 6:30 pm – 7:30 pm given the fact he’s been REALLY talkative post murder.

         • Probably not a call twixt then… But… Remember, these guys text!
           Just like most email users don’t know that their messages are stored for a very long time (because they’re spooled on very large servers that don’t get around to overwriting them for months), they may have thought these were “one off” messages, recorded nowhere. If so, then believing they had a secure channel, and for about 46 days to believe they’d gotten away entirely. Those messages, as well as those between any of the other NW followers, will prove especially interesting. But then, I’m sure the FBI already has them.
           Note that GZ has gone extremely quiet? Even O’Mara doesn’t have much explaining to do. His work, so far, seems to be concentrating on how much of the record gets released and trying to prevent it. As if he sees obstacles that cannot be overcome.

           I expect he’ll soon be reminding us of how high profile this case became, hampered his ability to focus on the defense, that and the added burden of GZ being uncontrollable.

           • O’mara had a weak concussion (or similar) defense until Zimmerman’s medical reports were released stating his injuries didn’t result in brain damage. It’s going to be interesting to see what route the defense takes…if any at all.

             Worth noting: My mom doesn’t follow the case. (Actually, I don’t even think she knows I blog for a hobby). She’s definitely not into details either. But, she does watch the nightly news regularly. I asked for her take… “Well, the kid did beat him up — look at the injuries. If Zimmerman felt in danger of dying, I can see why he shot.” She didn’t support his decision to kill the unarmed kid though… “Couldn’t he have fired a warning or non lethal shot and waited for cops to show up?”

             The flaw with this defense (which is the only defense we’ve heard) of Zimmerman: The confrontation/fight leading to the fatal shot has nothing to do with the fact that an armed man stalked, harassed, preyed upon, and then murdered his unarmed teenage neighbor returning from the store with some snacks.

         • Disregard my door chime/keys in the ignition comment…I posted without doing some research first.

           So, the picture from the evidence dump is that of a Nissan Titan…

           

           Via YouTube, I’ve listened to the chimes of each Titan model going back to 2004 (yes, this was super annoying) and none of them make the sound heard in Zimmerman’s 911 call.

           What vehicle does make the chime sound heard in Zimmerman’s 911 call? The Honda Ridgeline. It looks similar to the Titan but IS NOT the vehicle pictured in the evidence dump. Moreover, the Ridgeline makes a chime when the door is opened — the key doesn’t necessarily need to be in the ignition as seen at the :45 mark here:

           Not that this uncovers much since a Honda key was found near the scene but I (PURELY) speculate Zimmerman drives a Ridgeline.

       • NLME said:

         “The flaw with this defense (which is the only defense we’ve heard) of Zimmerman: The confrontation/fight leading to the fatal shot has nothing to do with the fact that an armed man stalked, harassed, preyed upon, and then murdered his unarmed teenage neighbor returning from the store with some snacks.”

         Agreed. It’s like forget everything that happened 10-15 minutes before the fight and focus on the injuries the confessed killer received in his relentless pursuit to detain a citizen who did nothing wrong. At some point, we have to agree that his behavior is unacceptable and I’m sure many would agree but the media is downplaying the confessed killer’s menacing and threatening behavior prior to receiving his non-life threatening injuries.

         I’ve also noticed a shift in the framing from the confessed killer receiving life threatening injuries and thus being justified to the confessed killer receiving injuries and feared he would die and thus being justified. Do we really want a society where scaring someone is cause for capital punishment? Scaring someone that you have pursued? A kid? With SYG in place?

         The confessed killer thought Trayvon had a gun. This was implicit in his 911 call and his behavior after he shot Trayvon. He was looking for a gun when he was touching his body as two witnesses stated. I don’t believe he could get that shot off on the ground. But again, the confessed killer wants us to believe that everything that happened that night that defies logic, physics and the space-time continuum is true because he said so.

         • “At some point, we have to agree that his behavior is unacceptable…”

           And, HIGHLY illegal!

           • Yep, no community would ever sign on for a NW program that allowed or encouraged such behavior. The LEA’s have labeled this kind of conduct illegal vigilantism, which is outlawed. Because this kind of conduct is illegal, the NSA has published “guidelines” designed to keep members within the law and therefore legal.

             Make no mistake, just because the NSA calls them “guidelines”, that doesn’t mean that what is done when stepping outside them is legal, if it were, then the NSA would so advise of these exceptions. They don’t because there are none! Of course, that is not to say that you, as a NW would be forbidden to come to the aid of a victim, or even observe from a safe distance, in the event that you had actually witnessed the commission of a crime! There’s no vigilantism in responding to an actual crime, already committed and evident, as any citizen would. The vigilante comes in, when one attempts to follow and corner the suspect and detain him/her on his or her own, using the threat of a deadly force that should not be available under the rules.

             What GZ did was react to a vision that he alone held in his own mind, with nothing at all to confirm that it existed in reality! And he did so while armed with deadly force, a firearm. When he was challenged “Why are you following me?” he refused to even attempt to defuse the situation with identification of him self. Instead of identifying himself, he continued to escalate the hostilities by acting in an inflammatory manner! That question that TM asked, should alone be enough to make GZ the criminal in this matter, for not giving the response that would have ended the hostilities! After all, a criminal or criminally intended person, already knows why they’re being followed. Only an innocent person has to ask.

         • The thing we can do with what we learn here is, fan out to the MSM comments boards and knock down the mis info there.

           On the ABA board some guy was talking about the mma beating as justification for the shooting. Of course, I could easily see that he didn’t know what he was talking about, so I upped the ante. I replied that he was attempting to use the failed original testimony of witness #6 (he probably didn’t even know who that was), then I asked why was he bothering to use that information, when witness #6 had changed that testimony days ago. The effect I was shooting for was, other readers would realize this guy was using outdated information to support his views. Something that most lawyers would find biased and offensive, most people would also be turned off by the bias revealed.

           So, that way there’s a good chance a few minds will be changed. So, fan out there and use this knowledge to point out the holes and the biases, be gentle, respectful and clear. Who knows who else you’ll empower. I’ve seen entire boards change after the ringleaders took a few knockdowns of their favorite points.

       • That strange statement to the parents at the bond hearing

         “I didn’t know he was unarmed”

         actually translates to “I thought he was armed”.

         So in his mind he is terribly brave to go looking for him. But once TM fights back, no telling when he’s going to draw HIS weapon. Big disappointment, upon frisking him afterwards, to find nothing. If he HAD found a gun, just need to put it in TM’s hand and the self-defence case is watertight.

         • Does he think that SYG allows him to shoot people he thinks are threatening?

       • aussie thats a good point, maybe he was looking for a weapon (gun/knife) to put in martins hand to justify the shooting. But it also makes it clear that zimmerman could not have thought martin was going to kill him and this means george must have been the original aggressor. If Martin wanted to confront zim and he was armed, he would have used the weapon, not ‘wrestling’. If George thought this kid was armed it wasn’t because Trayvon was the aggressor or his weapon would have been produced. George was the aggressor, he tried to stop/hold/detain this kid, the kid fought back, he got his ass kicked, lost his temper and shot only to find out that this armed criminal he just saved the neighbourhood from was no risk or threat to anyone.

       • @Jo –

         I have a hard time believing George Zimmerman thought for real that Trayvon Martin had a weapon. Why would Zimmerman go after the child if he thought he was armed? George Zimmerman probably thought just the opposite. Bullies like George always go after who they perceive as weaker than them (like unarmed teens) although they tend to paint the weakling they go after as 600-lb heavy-weights to boost their heroism. That’s probably why George Zimmerman described Trayvon to the police as someone who “had his hand in his wasteband” although Trayvon Martin had NO WEAPON OR DRUGS and carried only Skittles and an Arizona Iced Tea juice drink.

       • i was just saying if trayvon jumped zimmerman first then it is obvious he wasn’t armed, if he intended on causing harm to george or kill him he would have produced his weapon, you dont try and smother someone if you have a gun in your pocket…therefore george must have known he wasn’t armed if it happened the way he said it did. So my conclusion is that either george knew he wasn’t armed or if he didn’t know (as he said at the hearing) then he must have been the aggressor, maybe gun drawn or something,not giving martin the opportunity to get his weapon out if he suspected that he had one. I was just using his words against him

       • @Jo –

         Ok, I get it. I think I was agreeing with you and adding my own take. 🙂

         (There’s also a good possibility that I was responding to the wrong comment.)

     • Aussie: “If it started raining, he could have sat down at the store, or in some shelter at another nearby store (?) to wait it out, then decided to run home as it wasn’t going to let up.”

       It’s a possibility indeed. However, it is not in DeeDee’s account. Her answer to the investigator’s question is straight, that is: On TM’s way back from 7-11, it started raining and therefore he ran to find shed at the mailboxes.

       ####

       Aussie: “The entry from north-west corner is what we’ve been thinking for a long time.”

       I fully agree.

       ####

       Aussie about GZ being tipped off by F. Taafee. It’s a possibility I entertain. To that point, I’ve seen no reported evidence for or against it. But, I can buy into it.

       ###

       About GZ planning. This is only a working hypothesis. I agree it probably excessive. However, I base that hypothesis mostly on what appears to be GZ’s mindset before and after the shooting.
       1) GZ showed interest in being cop and him volunteering for NW is just part of it. He may have dreamed of being the hero saving his community. What he claims TM said during the scuffle sounds like coming straight out of western movies.
       2) GZ mindset sounds different on Feb 26th. If you listen to the 3 prior 911 calls GZ placed (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/), you’ll notice that his ton is different. He his more natural, sometimes casual in his previous calls. On Feb 26th, he sounds at first more neutral. Then, when TM walks toward him, it sounds like he is getting scared. All of a sudden, when TM passes by him, he turns assertive and says “These assholes…”.
       3) He is caught by surprise when TM starts running (“Shit! He’s running”). He is so assertive at this point that that he chases him on foot.
       4) He is pissed by the fact that he lost him. He sounds absent, like trying to hold the conversation with the dispatcher while focusing on something else.
       5) He sinks more and more in a kind of resignation mood (he eventually agrees on meeting LEO at mailboxes), until he again changes suddenly to a more assertive ton (he interrupts dispatcher) and basically demand that they call him because he won’t be at the mailboxes and he has no idea where he will be.

       It could indeed be that he could not hold some sort of anger, and that’s my first belief.
       Nevertheless, if he spotted TM early, why didn’t he call 911 right away? Why would you stay observing a suspicious person for 15min or possibly 30min before you decide to call a non-emergency police # on a Sunday evening? And, you can’t say that it’s was 1st time for GZ to call 911. He did it more often in a few years than all of us posting here combined in our lifetime.
       He may have have some sort of plan, maybe not involving a killing, but still some story where in the end he would be a hero. That could explain changing tons: Neutral at start (try to sound natural, GZ), holding some fear (shit, is it turning bad for me?), relief (that’s just a kid, I can handle him), pissed off (shit, I’m loosing him), distracted (that dispatcher is an idiot, I’ve got more important things to do), giving up and finally assertive (Hum, it seems like I may have my chance in the end.).

       It would explain why he rushed out of his truck fully equipped.

       And finally, it might be what Flashlight sensed when he was talking with him after the shooting.

       • @tchoupi

         I’m glad you raised the point about the confessed killer being distracted during the call. It would also suggest to me that he was still pursuing Trayvon. And if he is headed away from where Trayvon ran, back to his car, when he says he lost him, why state he was nervous about giving out his address? Again, this is twice the confessed killer states he is hiding his identity 1) when he claims Trayvon knocked on his window and he lied to Trayvon 2) to the 911 operator when he states he doesn’t want the kid to have his address (maybe didn’t want enraged parents knocking on his door) and then we have DeeDee tell us that he refused to identify himself when Trayvon asked.

         Why would he need to repeatedly concealed who he was unless the confessed killer was “up to no good?”

       • Right, tchoupi

         and it started out being angry, after he was tipped off and went out on a nasty night, to find the kid just hanging about, on the phone, not doing anything interesting, wasting his time for nothing. Okay, let’s get the cops here at least, if the kid’s hanging around maybe with luck he won’t move until they get here…………..

         And then the kid has the cheek to check him out and then run away. And nobody for the cops to take away when they get here.

         I don’t think it was as long as 15 minutes. DeeDee saying “he was on his way back from 7-11” does not have mean immediately directly back. Where are you? in 7-11 getting some snacks. (He’s on the phone in 7-11, in one scene he adjusts the headset, another he looks a bit distracted before putting his attention back on his shopping). Where are you? on my way back. I’m puffed. It started raining, I had to run. It’s okay now, I’m under cover at the mailboxes.

         Doesn’t mean he didn’t sit down elsewhere, to talk in more comfort, BEFORE the rain got heavy.

         But Serino’s statement says GZ followed “from the northwest corner”. If it was raining hard at that time, I can’t see GZ choosing that instant to go to Target and accidentally come across him.

         If he was seen (by somebody, not necessarily Taaffe but he’s the only connection we know of who lives on that corner) running INTO the open shortcut corner, GZ would have time to jump in his truck and catch up with him just a few doors down from where he emerges onto Retreat View. This lets GZ observe him the whole length of RVC to the mailboxes. THEN he sat and watched for a while.

         Whether TM is running hard, or just jogging, he’d be aware of a vehicle barely crawling behind him. Strange, if not scary yet. He stops at the mailboxes and so does the vehicle. But lights on, engine running. Starts to get scary. Maybe he waits, hoping it will go away. GZ waits, half hoping the kid makes a wrong move, half hoping he’s still there when the cops arrive.

         I am very sad about the DeeDee call.

         On one hand it gives us TM’s version of his last minutes.

         On the other hand, without the distraction of the call, he may have made a better assessment of the situation, perhaps gone into the house sooner.

       • @tchoupi

         I like where you went with this…below is my response to a post on msnbc recently.

         2 separate posts read, “actually if you listen to the 911 call, he does appear to obey the dispatcher”

         “Also he did NOT disregard the instructions. Why is this so hard for everyone to believe. He stops following and then TALKS on the phone for almost 2 minutes.”

         I replied…bob & dan – repeating that same tired line…still doesn’t make it true. Hmmm, why is this so hard for everyone to believe?! “Your Honor, may I present into evidence, Exhibit A”: transcripts of jail house recordings of GZ and Mrs. GZ speaking in ‘code’ (Lol, I’m sorry. I can’t help but laugh remembering what I read), in a deliberate attempt to lie, mislead, and deceive, the court about their finances.

         Lastly, saying “OK”, is not an acknowledgement that you have any intentions to comply! In GZs MIND, it’s more like, “Yeah, whatever!”…”Didn’t I mention at the start of this call that we’ve had a rash of break-ins lately and there’s this suspicious guy lurking around?!”…”If you think for one minute I’m gonna listen to you (a non police officer, according to GZ supporters), and let this a**hole get away, ‘you did hear me say that they always get away, didn’t you?!’, you’ve got another thing coming!” Matter of fact, just have their lazy a** call me when they get here!”

         Do you honestly believe that GZ actually stopped for those 2 mins standing idly by? Considering, while on the phone with 911, he attemped to sound fearful…in his own words, “He didn’t know what this kids deal is”, or “Oh, I don’t want to say that too loud, I don’t know where this kid is”, if he were that uncertain about the motive/actions of Trayvon…he should have hurried his butt back to the truck.

153. I am thinking that anonymous witness #9 is a relative or ex. Too bad they couldn’t disguise her voice better. She sounds frightened of GZ. I hope that they can get her to testify.

     I am sure that someone has presented this pathway before… but I think the evidence and witnesses clearly confirm the following.

     1)According to Zimmerman (witness) himself, he chased Trayvon toward the south gate and lost him: The only option from the mailboxes that he could make such a judgement was if TM ran down Twin Trees then turned east either at the street or between houses.

     2)Next the witnesses say the arguing started at the top of the pathway North by the T.

     3)The arguing continues and a physical scuffle occurs on the ground further south on the pathway where TM’s body was found.

     So clearly the extra time that passed was used for ZImmerman to follow and locate this kid in between houses, where he shouldn’t have been. Otherwise he would have been sitting in his truck by the mailboxes.

154. I’m interested in seeing/hearing witness statements that haven’t been released yet. I believe I read somewhere there are some from people that didn’t call 911. You have to wonder how many ‘silent’ observers there may have been…for instance, during SPD limited canvas of the area, did they get statement from people where the back of their homes faced the ‘T’ and looked straight down the walkway? Just can’t shake the feeling that the most damning evidence is something none of us here has even considered.

     • Well, Tina, both sides have to agree on what gets released.

       So far apart from the autopsy, there’s not been a lot released that wasn’t out there already, in one form or another. Just the photos with the numbered markers and the autopsy. Police conversations with GZ were totally blacked out.

       So they have not released any other witnesses that were not already known to the world, from 911 calls or media appearances.

       These are the more important ones, and the ones they’re arguing about releasing.

155. @NLME

     “And, HIGHLY illegal!”

     Yes! If my kid came home reporting everything that happened until I lost him, I would have called the police. Did the confessed killer recognized he had gone so far over the line that night? I think yes he did. Was an incentive to murder that night? Possibly.

     • Update to the blog posting coming soon but why hasn’t the prosecution gone after Murder 1 yet?

       “These assholes always get away.”

       Zimmerman intended – from the moment he started running – to make sure this asshole (and/or fcking coon…pick your poison) didn’t get away. He succeeded via murder and will now face the consequences.

       • Ohhhh – Zimmerman probably only said, “These glass holes always get away.”

         My bad, Zimmerman defense team.

       • That’s an easy question to answer, just look at “the landscape” back then. The SPD had all but botched the investigation, critical pieces were missing. To go for Murder 1, as I understand it, the SP would have needed the GJ. While she could see enough to make a strong case, it still wasn’t enough to satisfy a GJ, more still had to be developed. And finally, even if M1 isn’t charged, the jury can still find for it. With the media/public clamor growing, something had to be done and quick, which is why the Governor moved and even the President spoke. Can you imagine the pressure? It wouldn’t do to have a GJ return lesser charges or perhaps even refuse to charge because of SYG.

     • I agree the confessed killer went too far as you and NLME have speculated in the past. I’m having a hard time thinking that type of error would cause a person to feel so bad about his actions that he’d only then begin to want to cover his error by committing murder. I think George’s upbringing and new-found friends with possibly indoctrinated hate towards race coupled with George Zimmerman’s desire to fit in (with Frank Taaffe types) may have been what led him to believe he was justified in the killing.

156. “He’d be the stupidest criminal ever.”

     Heh – plenty of stupid criminals. Many return to the scene of the crime and start asking the police questions, insert themselves in the investigation with a tip or two here and there. The easiest way to remove suspicion about yourself is to insert yourself into the story because people will think, nah, he would hide. These two clowns believe they are smarter than everyone and better at law enforcement that the SPD.

     As per twitter, Taaffe is running around reconstructing the “scene.” Umm, hello, highly inappropriate for a witness in this case.

     I really need the FBI to come down on charges. Was it for show or are they working this case?

     • I think the FBI and Angela Corey are simply allowing Zimmerman’s team plenty of time to keep saying stupid stuff (and/or come clean) before they drop the hammer.

       For example, I wouldn’t be shocked if we eventually see a headline like this…

       “FBI deploys revolutionary new technology and confirms Zimmerman called Trayvon Martin a fcking coon. Hate crime charges to be filed.”

       What’s my grounds for this speculation?

       In the above example, the probable-cause affidavit mentioned Zimmerman muttered “Fcking punks” during his 911 call. This obviously wasn’t what Zimmerman said – and absolutely nobody heard “Fcking punks” – but the FBI and prosecution can always make a case for something even more damning than originally “thought.”

       So, basically, the FBI and Corey want Zimmerman’s team to dig their own proverbial grave (or fess up to the fact that Zimmerman hunted and then killed the unarmed teenager). Though frustrating to observers of the case, this is a very skilled technique in my opinion.

157. Am wondering how saturated with rain Trayvon’s clothes were? The last thing someone would want to do soaking wet is start a fight, unless they had to do so. In a rain-soaked sweatshirt? I hate when my clothing is wet. The only thing I want to do is get home. The feeling is yucky…wet jeans? Wet sneakers? Forget about it. He may have avoided the rain and was not terribly soaked and his clothes do not appear soaked in the 7-11 video. Just food for thought.

     • Apparently it was raining on and off that night. It was probably “off” when he decided to go to the store.

       He tells DeeDee he ran on his way back from the 7-11 because of the rain. Maybe he dried off some at the mailboxes. The hoodie looks like one of those fleecy type ones, they’re not terribly waterproof, but wouldn’t get saturated in a short downpour.

       Odd though, one police officer at the scene said GZ’s back was wet and covered with grass……..strange, wasn’t all of him meant to be wet? seeing he’d been out in the rain, too?

       But it wasn’t raining at the time of the fight.

       • In the police videos and photos, I don’t see the wetness on the back of his jacket or anywhere on his upper body. Maybe it’s more trick photography like the head wounds or something. Can’t wait for the trial which undoubtedly will have close-ups of everything.

       • Something I always found strange about the “wet/grass” laden jacket…if he were laying in the wet grass for the significant amount of time Trayvon allegedly had him pinned down, wouldn’t the back of his jeans still been wet and had grass on them? He even admits to squirming trying to move his head away from sidewalk. There isn’t any disturbance to the grass in evidence photos that I’ve seen to indicate a life and death struggle took place. I would expect to see some indication that GZ had at least dug his heels into the grass in effort to gain an advantage over Trayvon. Someone pointed out in earlier post that front of his boots appeared wet and had debris, but back of boots were clean. If he’d been own on his back in wet grass, those jeans should’ve been filthy if he’d been putting up a struggle.

       • To speak nothing of grass stains…a struggle in the grass…someone is getting grass stains.

       • In response to someone else’s question I checked the evidence dump. The good clear colour photos taken at the precinct were FOUR HOURS AFTER the shooting. Serino was called back to the precinct at 23.15 hours to take the pix.

         So clothes would have dried by then. So did blood trickles. Grass and mud would have come off clothes and shoes, accidentally or otherwise. (Yep destroy some evidence, just to not mess up the nice clean seats in the interrogation room).

         The big blood trickle from the top down behind the left ear looks right for someone leaning forward in a car, as he would be if handcuffed behind. Any earlier blood was cleaned up by the paramedics. The ONLY pre-cleanup image is the cell phone one.

         But four hours is long enough for black eyes to develop, if they’re going to. I don’t see any.

       • @Aussie –

         I kind of alluded to the blood drippage angle before although that may have been on the mapping blog before this one. The blood was cleaned up at the scene in the police car, but I highly doubt EMT would remove evidence. I’m thinking direction of blood flow would have been considered evidence and EMT may be trained to NOT remove/cleanup of such while “cleaning up”. Also, the iphone pic taken by Jon has a very similar indication of blood flow.

158. Witness #11 is very interesting and exciting. She may be the strongest witness yet. At first she states that GZ isn’t the type to confront though she doesn’t know him very well… only from HOA meeting. But when she is asked more directly about the arguing she confirms that an exchange more like what Dee Dee is saying occurred.

     The investigator asked her if the exchange was more simple like, “yo, yo, yo”. She said “No. It was more like… ‘what ya, what ya, ya, ya?'” then,”what ya, what ya, ya, ya?” back and forth.

     Clearly, Dee Dee’s statement of “What are you following me for?” and “What are you dong around here?” is closer to what this witness (11) heard.

     So I read somewhere that some blogs are running away with witness #11’s statements, but clearly George lied about being jumped from behind and not being in an initial confrontation. None of the witness statements really align with GZ, once you get beyond his superficial assertions.

     • Interesting indeed. Thanks San San.

       Could you post a link to witness 11’s interview?

       • NLME said that he felt uncomfortable posting axiom amnesia links, but I saw it posted up above at some point.

         @NLME: Do you have another link to multiple witness interview recordings?

         • (I think) I redacted the first portion of all the Axiom Amnesia links. It’s not tough to figure out the URL though. 🙂

       • Tchoupi,

         Axiom Amnesia’s website has both of witness 11’s interviews. Along with everyone else except witness 7 whose statements remain sealed. My guess is it’s GZ (#7). Just google Axiom Amnesia on your computer. I found the website to not be iPad or iPhone friendly. But the site works fine on the PC. I won’t post the link because NLME doesn’t want it posted in this forum.

         @San San #11 account is indeed one of the most compelling.

       • Actually, I have downloaded them all now.
         I’ll prepare a new witness map.
         Are you interested in posting it NMLE?

     • “Witness #11 is very interesting and exciting. She may be the strongest witness yet. At first she states that GZ isn’t the type to confront though she doesn’t know him very well… only from HOA meeting.”

       I disagree.

       3/2/12 –

       @4:04 onward in the taped interview of 3/2/12, Witness 11 talks about how she knows Zimmerman through the HOA. She goes on to become a character witness of him. @4:57, Witness 11 describes George Zimmerman as someone who is “confrontational in the fact that he was trying to do the Neighborhood Watch thing”.. “If he saw something going on in the neighborhood, he would confront the person”.

       @3:08 in the tape, she confirms that she’s discussed the events with witness 6 (“MMA John” who later recanted the MMA portion of his statement). She says “MMA John” was the only one of the neighbors that “saw” anything. The evidence hadn’t been released yet, so how else would she *think* that John was the only one who saw unless she spoke to him personally? She goes on to say that George Zimmerman was the one screaming for help although she didn’t see anything (probably tainted by “John’s” telling of the story before he recanted his statement) and then she says she saw the picture taken by the officer on the scene which showed an unrecognizable George Zimmerman (@3:33) with bloodied lip, broken nose, etc.

       3/19/12 –
       @5:00 of the FDLE re-interview of Witness 11 and asks if she’s a member of the HOA. She says she’s a board member and *knows* that George Zimmerman was nominated, but was conveniently “absent” when the Neighborhood Watch program was discussed. She also confirms that she’s heard George Zimmerman was the “captain” and that George is the “contact” for the community.

       Again, the video of what George Zimmerman looked liked the same night he murdered Trayvon Martin wasn’t released until AFTER her dishonest statement to officer Serino about George Zimmerman being so badly beaten that he was unrecognizable. Her account is a LIE. Her account is tainted by John’s original MMA lie, so perhaps her account proves the old adage that one lie leads to another is in fact how stuff works. All she is a precise witness for at this point is that she called 9-1-1 and the gun went off and there were cries for help in the background of her call. She saw nothing.

       I hope this is not misconstrued as bashing Witness 11. I believe she’s simply impressionable and easily influenced.

       • @CommonSense

         I haven’t listened to this witness testimony but look forward to doing so…I think you gave an honest opinion based on what you’ve heard.

       • Here’s a link to a pic of someone beaten badly and unrecognizable….http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/gallery?section=news/local&id=8682112&ad=true&photo=8

         This is a suspect in a drug bust in Philly…this is what one would’ve expected to see of GZ, according to the beating that father and brother Zimmerman claimed he got.

       • is this the photo you are talking about http://media2.wcpo.com//photo/2012/05/17/zimmermanpic_20120517172219_640_480.JPG

         i guess they just released a copy because this photo is black and white and not clear at all or is there a better image that i haven’t seen.

         • Can’t wait to see (any applicable) video of Zimmerman from inside the cop car.

       • I’m even noticing small discrepencies in EMT statements. Particularly, O’Rourke and the Livingston. Assuming they(Rescue 38) all arrived on scene at the same time…you have O’Rourke saying that the shirt was already rolled up and Livingston saying that she went to lift the shirt to do CPR when she felt something in his pocket and saw it was the tea and removed it. I wonder though, why didn’t the officer who first started CPR notice the can of tea? We know from witness Jonathan M, that he asked for plastic bag/vaseline to place on the wound so he had to have lifted the hoodie and shirt.

         There was previous discussion about how during the initial altercation that the tea could’ve fallen from the bag and TM may’ve had a few seconds to gather up the items. I imagine they would’ve checked the can for finger prints to see if the majority of them were his(eliminating any that would’ve been the store clerk, or smudge prints from gloves EMT wore). If GZ had been one to place in his pocket after shooting, then definitely will find his, unless he thought to wipe can first. Even that would prove odd if there happened to be NO fingerprints on the can?!

         Ok, I admit that may be a bit of a stretch in my theroy, Lol! But waiting around for new info to be released, only have old stuff to rehash…

       • @Tina –

         I appreciate that. 🙂

         I think some of what may be causing different takes on what we’re hearing is probably because we’re listening to different versions of the same statements — some edited.

       • More @Tina –

         I agree wrt the EMT personnel. I heard one of the EMTs being interviewed not too long ago (can’t recall where) and he said George Zimmerman had about a 1-inch wide gash in the back of his head. I thought he was exaggerating since I’d already seen the close-up pics released by the State.

       • @Jo and NMLE –

         That’s definitely the pic Witness #11 had to be referring to. The officer said he only took one and that’s the only one released. Zimmerman’s nose looks in the officer’s cell phone pic EXACTLY like it did in the pic splashed about in the news BEFORE this incident with Trayvon Martin. Not the orange jailsuit pic, but the one Zimmerman took when he worked for the mortgage industry at Digital Risk, LLC. There are numerous copies of the pic, but you can see it here: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-23/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-job-20120323_1_robert-zimmerman-source-new-details

         Zimmerman has the EXACT same hump on his nose as he does in the police photo and the police photo was taken from an abnormal angle which tends to exaggerate George’s probable *previous* injury to his nose.

       • yep his nose looks the same to me….wonder if the blood on his stache flowed from his nose or was dabbed on to make it look that way….oh gee look at me being all cynical again. He reminds me a bit of Zoolander, one look for every occasion….this is my mug shot expression, this is my court appearance expression, this is my “i was just nearly killed (honest) and then took the life of an unarmed teenager” expression. Blue steel if ya like.

     • @San

       ”
       The investigator asked her if the exchange was more simple like, “yo, yo, yo”. She said “No. It was more like… ‘what ya, what ya, ya, ya?’” then,”what ya, what ya, ya, ya?” (BACK AND FORTH)”.

       Clearly, Dee Dee’s statement of “What are you following me for?” and “What are you dong around here?” is closer to what this witness (11) heard”

       For those that may of read my theory they would have read where I had GZ and TM ask the questions twice. That was not speculation, Benjamin Crump said DeeDee told him she heard the questions twice on his very first interview with her. What I find strange is she never says it in any formal interview.I thought this was common knowledge but now not so much.

       I believe you are right San, #11 supports DeeDee’s statements, Thanx!!

       • Do you have a link for Mr. Crump’s statement regarding DeeDee’s statement?

       • No I don’t I’m sorry to say, but I remember Mr Crump saying on MSNBC and then reading it the next day on the net. IT’s one of the things that bothered me when the whole DeeDee thing came out. It stuck in my head. Why wouldn’t they answer each others question. It’s like they had a stand off and nither one would give in. Personally I think it was GZ’s responsibility to answer the question, he’s the adult in this tragedy.

         I looked for the March what ever article but could not find it and I did not save it but he did say it. I just don’t know why DeeDee has not said it since. And like I said when I wrote my theory I just assumed most people knew that but now I’m thinking no. Sorry

         • Cool – thanks!

           • It seems to me that TM wouldn’t answer, because he thought GZ’s question was a ruse to learn more about him, to use in nefarious ways. On the other hand GZ is NW, and has no reason not to identify himself, since that was what the hostility was being created by, his own unexplained acts.

             So, there he is, carrying a gun bought months ago to defend against a dog, that hasn’t bothered him since??? Now he’s carrying it regularly on patrols???
             He knows and has been told better than to do that!

             His worst nightmare is that innocent appearance he wore at the bond hearing, when he lied about having no money. The video of him telling that baldfaced lie, with a straight face and false sincerity, will be all that’s needed to counter any “my word against the evidence/witnesses” balance that may present.

       • I heard DeeDee state that same question twice, too. Don’t remember Crump’s question, but I definitely recall DeeDee saying it twice like Zimmerman’s questioning was rhetorical and he didn’t expect an answer to it. It was more like an accusation than a question, iow.

       • @Lonnie –

         “His worst nightmare is that innocent appearance he wore at the bond hearing, when he lied about having no money. The video of him telling that baldfaced lie, with a straight face and false sincerity, will be all that’s needed to counter any “my word against the evidence/witnesses” balance that may present.”

         I was in my car when the radio broadcasted the bond was revoke for Zimmerman because of the lies he and his wife told at the bond hearing about then being indigent while they had already spent $50K (which shows they had full access to the money).

         Needless to say, any nearby cars probably thought I was probably nuts since I was gleefully shouting “Y-E-S-S-S!”.

         It was so obvious that Zimmerman was making a mockery of our justice system and I feel like just a little bit of the justice system is being restored with Justice Lester’s ruling today.

       • @NLME

         I found it! Click the link and then scroll down for the video, Mr Crump says it at the 10;45 mark,

         http://www.mediaite.com/tv/trayvon-martin-attorney-press-conference-phone-logs-completely-connect-the-dots/

     • @CommonSense: I agree about the perception of her being a great witness for the defense, but the defense would be crazy to use her testimony, which would lend automatic credibility to Dee Dee’s account and that GZ was confrontational.

       They will need to be very careful which witness’s account they chooses to accentuate. GZ the proven liar talked to every witness that he could and then they all talked together. The only thing they confirm is that GZ followed this kid, argued with this kid in the DARK and got his butt kicked a bit for not introducing himself. Could he have shot the kid in the leg once it got out of hand given his previous error in judgement? Yes. I truly feel that his statements, text and phone calls will be the nails in his own coffin. For now the lying under oath with his wife as an accomplice implies that he has no respect for the law and has little remorse for taking another human beings life. It was all about the money when they saw the cash rolling in. I personally suspect that she may be afraid of him or she is a crook too. Why would she do this after this? I would never lie under oath because husband ask me to. He would get an earful for asking.

       If you listen closely, witness #11 barely knows this guy, couldn’t recognize him or his voice outside of her house doing the job they gave him either. Also she says that he was NOT appointed the Captain of NW that she knew of, but he is the contact for questions regarding NW.

       • Ah.. Now I’m with you. IANAL, and probably have been reading too much about this case. I think I was buying into the “he looked beat up, so he must’ve been justified in shooting” theories floating about the internet.

         I see what you’re saying and totally agree. She’d definitely be a good witness for the state.

       • San San,, good of you not to lie for your husband….. would the prospect of that lie helping you salt away $100,000+++ change your mind? The lie was to help them hang on to the cash (in a joint account).

159. @ aussie:

     “If he HAD found a gun, just need to put it in TM’s hand and the self-defence case is watertight.”

     Makes you wonder who was the source of the neighborhood rumor that there were two shots. Hmmm…

     • Wow — Excellent observations/comments, aussie and princss6.

160. Witness 1 and 2 were in the same home, they are sisters. Number 2’s account to FDLE describes a chase from south to north. Although she indicates she heard the chase more than seeing the chase.

     Witness 1’s description of TM’s clothing after the shot really got my attention. The body looked like legs were in a running position. She saw the body of TM wearing a jacket that was reddish in color. That further indicates GZ was on top of the body possibly frisking searching for a weapon immediately after the shooting. Witness 1 then runs upstairs to tell sis she think someone got shot. I think GZ may have rolled TM over face up searching everywhere for the weapon than turned him back face down quickly before witness 5, 16, &13 got the chance to interact with him. The guy moves quickly.

     • Indeed, wit #1 is flashlight’s (wit #13) wife. That’s what she explains to SPD on March 1st. Basically, she says she was in the kitchen, she heard the voices, saw the shadows, heard the gunshot, called her husband who went out and she saw him talking with GZ.
       Wit #1 is Jeannie Manalo & wit #13 is Jonathan Manalo. wit #2 would then be Juvie Pilch, the sister of Jeannie. The 3 of them own the townhouse at 2861 RVC (the top corner house to the east of the crime scene).

       • You can discard my post above. I mixed up the Manalo & Bahadoor families. I’ll issue the witness map soon.

         • I’d love to see it. Sorry I didn’t respond to your comment yesterday (or was it a few days ago?). You may have emailed me — haven’t checked my bcclist inbox in a bit. Yes, even though it’s tied to my phone. Ha!

       • I, too, get the Johns/Jons confused. I think the picture taker is the one that lives in the corner house across from the HOA lady who lives at the T. I could be wrong.

161. The prosecutor and defense have united today to go to court to seal some of the evidence. Among them is a 911 recording of the incident. As far as we know, these have already been released. Could it be one of the two witnesses listed with no statement attached? OR could it be that the police really did call Geroge back when they arrived (as the operator said they would) and this was who he was on the phone with in the bloody head picture? This scenario would explain why George said he had already called 911 when asked by the witness. Is this when he specifically said something that is glaringly at odds with the evidence?

     There was supposed to be an evidence drop yesterday. I just didn’t happen.

     • The judge’s ruling was even better than an evidence dump, imho. As a matter of fact, the judge’s ruling is probably new evidence! 🙂

       • As Mr. Crump stated:

         “Only Zimmerman’s testimony says Trayvon Martin attacked him…that’s why this is such an important ruling.”

162. http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/25/nation/la-na-zimmerman-witnesses-20120526

     Witness 2 has changed her story considerably. Now she claims “hearing more than seeing” one person running up the walk.

     And we have all this debris up by the T. Keys with flashlight. 7-11 bag. TM’s phone.

     This is confusing. It may be tough to construct a clear picture for a juror.

     • And that could even potentially be Austin or his dog. We don’t know.

163. The witnesses seem so unreliable! When you change your story, you create reasonable doubt.

     • “Change their story” is a mis-characterization in my opinion. They are clarifying statements that they made. If there is a change, I believe that they were briefly quoted at the scene of a crime and responded through a lens of assumptions, based on whatever impression they were able to quickly glean from the scene. The more detail testimony contains explanations and qualifications of why they said what they said.

       So, as John thought he saw a fist fight, on further reflection he has to admit that the original characterization was based on an invalid assumption he made, not necessarily what he directly witnessed.

     • I think you’re confusing reasonable doubt about what witnesses claim to have seen versus what reasonable doubt the State will present about what George Zimmerman said happened. Remember, the State says Zimmerman’s account of what happened is the only contradictory evidence they have. Additionally, O’Mara, Zimmerman’s atty is now looking into whether George Zimmerman’s contradictory claims were illegally elicited. He said so according to Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE84O00020120525

164. Talking in code sounds incriminating.

     “The prosecution in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder trial filed a motion today seeking to revoke his bond and accusing him of “deceiving” the court about his finances and his possession of a second passport, which he apparently acquired two weeks after the shooting.

     In recordings of conversations released today during a court hearing, Zimmerman and his wife cryptically talk about his second passport in a safety deposit box they shared.

     Although one of his passports was due to expire in May, Zimmerman applied for a second passport, saying that the original was lost or stolen. In the conversations Zimmerman and his wife speak in code. Zimmerman is accused of tracking down and killing teenager Trayvon Martin, who caught the attention of the neighborhood watch captain in his gated Florida community.

     The new documents show that Zimmerman had $135,000 in his bank account the day before his bail hearing — in which he declared himself financially indigent.”

     http://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecution-requests-george-zimmermans-bond-revoked/story?id=16476183#.T8kJTrA198E

     • Indeed. Added (previously) to the Update section.

       Seeing that a defense case hasn’t been established yet – and it seems impossible to dream one up given what’s currently known – I wonder if Zimmerman makes it back to jail (as applicable) alive.

       Meaning, if Zimmerman was being painted as a gun totting hero (instead of goat), I can see how he would possibly be interested in serving time. But, as a goat, I can’t imagine somebody of his nature wanting to be told what to do for the next 20+ years.

       • I hope he makes it back to jail. I hope his wife is charged with perjury for lying under oath about what she knew regarding the money raised at George Zimmerman’s website.

         One of the witnesses made a statement that George Zimmerman does not like black people and the whole Zimmerman family is mean. I think this case is deeper than we can comprehend or are willing to. It’s beginning to sound like a bust of new age free-loaders with klan backing to promote NRA business interests.

         • Shellie could always say…

           “George was controlling and intimidated/forced me into lying during the bond hearing. Now that he’s restrained behind bars, here’s what really went down that night…”

165. Well looky here! George Zimmerman had $135,000 in his bank account on the day of the bond hearing . The prosecution is finally seeking to revoke his bond! Plus, he had a second passport which he applied for 2 weeks after shooting Trayvon. The article implies Shellie Zimmerman knew of the passport and spoke of it in code being in a safety deposit box. They have recording of the 2 speaking!

     During the bond hearing O’Mara turned in GZ’s first passport which would expire in May. I know O’Mara has to hate having GZ as a client. There is abolutely no integrity with GZ whatsoever.

     http://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecution-requests-george-zimmermans-bond-revoked/story?id=16476183

     • O’Mara is claiming that he knew about 2nd passport and had it in his possession the whole time but forgot to turn it in.

       • (I am going off memory only but) I specifically remember O’mara saying during the bond hearing that Zimmerman had only one passport and it expired within days/weeks.

         • Even worse… The passport he turned in, is exactly the passport he’d reported as stolen!

           So now, here we are before trial still, and already GZ’s credibility is shot all to hell and back. He’s already caught in TWO (2) very big lies, and there’s a third one pending:

           If you recall GZ stated to someone, that he didn’t remember that he had his gun!

           Well at the link above to the story about the bail revocation, there’s a line about how GZ carried his gun on patrols for two years. If so, what are the chances that he could forget he had it with him this time?

           He originally purchased the weapon to protect himself and his wife from a menacing dog, that seems to have promptly disappeared, never to be heard from again. However, shortly after making this purchase, he becomes the Captain of the NW!

           Did the dog ever have an owner? Was GZ ever able to determine who owned the dog? Did GZ ever call Animal Control on the dog? Wouldn’t that have been cheaper and more effective than buying a gun?

           These are serious questions now that we know GZ is an accomplished liar!

       • I don’t believe O’Mara didn’t know about the passport and I don’t believe he had it in his possession the whole time. I think he also knew about the money and lied before the court. I think the State is giving O’Mara a pass as part of the “good ole boys ‘network'” and the State will bump heads again over these issues. I think O’Mara is in way over his head.

       • Yep he may be thinking so, too.

         He’s just called in reinforcements.

         “The Orlando Sentinel (http://thesent.nl/Jy1HKb ) reports lead defense attorney Mark O’Mara plans to announce Friday that veteran Orlando attorney Donald R. West will join his team.

         West, who specializes in murder cases, has handled some of the most high-profile cases in central Florida over the past two decades.”

       • @Common/Aussie

         I agree that O’Mara is feeling a bit overwhelmed considering the amount of evidence that’s already been released and yet to be looked over. I wonder how GZ feels about having new attorney on board…it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if GZ suddenly does to this team what he did with first lawyers, and stops listening to advice, and ultimately stops communicating with them.

166. George Zimmerman’s bond revoked! He has 48 hours to go right to jail!

     http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/os-george-zimmerman-media-evidence-hearing-20120601,0,2607350.story

     • Thank you! Adding to the Update section.

       Now that Shellie Zimmerman could face charges for lying under oath during the bond hearing, I wonder if she comes clean if/when Zimmerman makes it back to his jail cell.

       • NLME,

         I was thinking the same thing. I am hopeful that the prosecution seeks to press charges against Shellie too. What else did she lie about during her testimony? The whole Zimmerman family comes off as so smug. They all probably knew about the money. Robert Jr. Was supposedly the web master of that realGZ website that’s why he was conveniently unavailable during the bond hearing.

       • @bunny620:

         What else did Shellie lie about you ask? Well she claims she has never seen her husband angry. Bloody unlikely! And why lie about that? She was a hostile witness. Now we know why.

       • When Shellie Zimmerman testified i got the distinct impression she was indignant and pissed off and would rather be watching the Bold and the Beautiful or anything other than answer questions. I get that she is probably pissed that George is in the position he is but your husband is in a butt load of trouble lady, at least sound interested and cooperative and not as though it is such a huge imposition to be asked to speak of your husbands character. Would like to hear how the other Zimmermen men will defend George on this one.

       • Every reason for her to be pissed off. Four weeks to her graduation. Go into hiding, move house, don’t graduate. No career to survive on alone, after hubby goes to jail. Messed up her life well and proper, as well as his own. And the earlier charges he’d got out of? bet she never even knew he’d had a fiancee before, he’s not the kind to tell any story that doesn’t make him look good……

167. Here is a story about why George and Shellie bought a pair of handguns.

     http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/25/11396690-george-zimmerman-prelude-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin?lite

     Here is a picture of Shellie

     http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/11/zimmermans-myspace-nickname-included-datniggy-family-insists-on-innocent-explanation/

168. Great Resource about Florida’s Stand Your Groud Laws. Table of every case. http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_139

     • Awesome – thank you, Toneii! I plan to review the link this weekend but any cases where the shooter did something unlawful leading up to the shot(s) and still got off?

       • Yep, NMLE, several cases of shootings in drug deals gone wrong, where they got off or didn’t get charged, on grounds of fearing for their lives. Including one where the shooter chased the victim…. both in cars.

         http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_51
         was offered a plea deal as police feared he’d win the SYG

         Apparently some jurisdictions are interpreting it as “if this person ever made you fear, you can go after him”.

         Some other very weird cases
         http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133

         This law is a joke. A very bad one.

         • Nothing like (aggravated) stalking, harassing, or preying upon an unarmed neighbor, correct?

           I agree. In my opinion, the interpretation seems to be what’s an utter joke. Meaning, as drafted and intended, I think if somebody breaks into your house or car and you feel in grave danger, something like SYG should exist.

           • Stand your ground is legalize killing, plain and simple!! Anyone can claim self defense and have a convenient witness to vouch for them. So what we have learned is, you can get in a high speed chase to run the person down to envoke SYG, you can stalk the person and perhaps make them be forced to defend themselves and envoke SYG. Yep!!! Legalized killing. There is a difference when you are minding your own business and all of a sudden you and yourself in a SYG position, by all means protect yourself. But, when you go out of your way because you know that you have this law and the police hands are tied, then how is this right? I am scared for the future of man. The Nra is ensuring that these people have guns so that they can keep theirs. How many lives have to be lost before people wake up. Why would anyone want to kill like this.

           • Everyone knew the opponents were armed because they were exchanging fire.
             Normally that would be already covered under “self defense”, except that now there’s on additional wrinkle, that a person acting unlawfully might be covered, if they were reasonable in assuming that a serious threat to their own life was occurring.

             Unfortunately, and I hope the SP points this out to a jury: A homeowner should not have to worry, that by pulling his gun on an invader, he might be giving the invader the right to defend him or her self. Possibly making them eligible for a life sentence, if they fired a warning shot, instead of shooting to kill! Even if you are unsure that the invader is actually a criminally intended person, if you carry your gun to confront them, and you still can’t be sure of their identity, you cannot fire a warning shot, you must shoot to kill!

             Which is why people of means are warned not to visit their heirs in Florida for the time being.

             Oh yes! Before I forget… Zimmerman fooled himself, he has waived his right to a speedy trial! That means the court can take it’s sweet time with the case!

       • @riisey Says: IMO these people may be able to file civil rights suits in a Federal court particularly due to the vague and inconsistent application of the law. This law may actually be unconstitutional and particularly for children is contrary to federal law. I am not sure how this law could have survived this long. The federal implications are likely why they are scrambling to fix things and tighten interpretations. If I were some of these families of pass gone interpretations, I’d be seeing a civil rights lawyer, just on the basis that some of these victims were innocently minding their own business. This includes Trayvon Martin.

169. Can anyone tell me what the evidence item marked #6 is?
     The pictures I have seen suggest to me that it is the cartridge case.
     However, in the evidence dump, the case is said to be marked #8.
     I looked again to the pictures and there is indeed an item marked #8 although I really can’t see any item in the grass next to the marker.

     • t.c, There has been much discussion about these markers. Apparently markers 6 & 8 are Trayvon’s body and the shell casing. Not sure which is which.

       The casing was found underneath Trayvon’s body.

       http://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2012/05/photos-travon-martin-george-zimmerman-case-evidence/35975/#10

     • tchoupi,

       Marker 8 is the cartridge case.(p 22 of document dump http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-documents.html)

       Further up on same page, the other Marker items are listed in order, but it jumps from #5 (cellphone) to #7 (Tea Can). There is no #6 listed on the evidence sheet.

       So Milo is right, #6 must have been the body (as the sheet lists evidence held in the locker, not what the markers stood for).

     • @tchoupi –

       I had read previously that the shell casings weren’t found until Trayvon Martin’s body was removed. Other items in the evidence (like the markers) indicate that may not be true. We’ll only know for sure once the trial ensues.

       • Serino, p80 of the evidence dump:

         “After the victim was transported, Sgt. CIesla and I looked for a cartridge case while It was stili raining. Sgt. Ciesla uttlized a metal detector as I searched In the areas the detector would detect.”

         The other items, contents of pockets etc had already been numbered, counted, logged etc by this time.

170. Breaking NEWS: ZIMMERMAN ORDERED BACK TO JAIL!!!
     Just heard it on the radio 1010 WINS NY

171. State’s Motion to Revoke Bond

     Click to access Zimmerman-Motion-to-Revoke-Bond.pdf

     • princss6 i see you have already posted the prosecutors motion, i posted it further down, i apologise i didn’t see you had already done it….gee you’re fast haha.

       • Hi jo: No need to apologize. Tweetdeck is a nosey body like myself best friend as I can monitor multiple streams of tweets at one time. That motion is something else! I’m so impressed with the prosecution right now. IMO, they are playing this just right: didn’t divulge information until ready and thoroughly, meticulously proved their case about the bond revocation. I’m cautiously optimistic. And also, I’m more confident that SYG won’t work as Judge Lester will have to decide the merits. Zimmerman just egregiously and brazenly lied to Judge Lester. His word is no longer bond (pun intended). This goes to a jury.

       • i agree,i think the prosecution know exactly what they’re doing and they’ve worked out how george operates already, i bet they high fived each other back at the office haha…and yes judges do not like to be lied to, especially when it is obviously not just a lie they made up on the spot, they planned to deceive the court because they think they are a bit smarter than they really are. He sat there in court and lied lied lied, so i guess the judge knows his word doesn’t mean much. His goose is cooked. I don’t know how the judge believed the passport story though…actually it would be good to read a transcript of the court proceedings if anyone knows where i can find it..

172. Holy shit, i just woke up to this news. GOLD. I don’t hate Zimmerman by any means but throughout this case he has come across as smug and somehow superior in his own mind to the law and everything else so i must admit i smiled when i saw the headline BOND REVOKED. And to think he applied for a new passport claiming the old one was stolen…and handing in the old one….and the talking in code shows that they were well aware of the situation and were actively deceitful to the court. Not sure about the money, didn’t they already bring that up last time and the judge was cool with it? The judge will not be happy. Omara must want to punch George in his big fat lying face right about now.

     • Don’t forget… O’Mara has waived GZ’s right to a speedy trial! Serves him right, eh?

       • haha that’s right, and now omara is saying george probably wont get another bail hearing before the trial…bet he wishes he had both his passports right about now.

173. I’ve been waiting all day to get the answer to the original reason they were in court today, the potential sealing of evidence. Here is from the Miami Herald tonight, I’ve supplied selected paragraphs here:

     Also on Friday, Judge Lester said he would grant in large part the requests of The Miami Herald and other media organizations to make public more of the evidence gathered in the case and now kept under seal . . . .

     Prosecutors argued that Zimmerman’s statements to police amounted to confessions, which are exempt from public-records law. But the judge said Zimmerman’s statements would likely bolster Zimmerman’s defense.
     Lester said he would spend the next 30 days reviewing the material before deciding what should be released and what, if anything, must be withheld to ensure a fair trial for Zimmerman. . .

     De la Rionda and O’Mara argued that witness names should be withheld to protect them from potential threats in the high-profile case, and that the release of other information could fuel the hothouse atmosphere of the case and prevent Zimmerman from getting a fair trial.
     But the judge said he expected about 90 percent of the information requested by the media would be released — though he’s not pleased about it.
     “The law basically favors full, complete and open disclosures,” the judge said. “It’s the law that we’re stuck with, unfortunately.”

     Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/01/2827932_p2/judge-orders-zimmerman-back-to.html#storylink=cpy

174. @CommonSenseForChange:

     “Did his wife retrieve the wallet and other vehicle evidence before the police got a chance to check it out since the police didn’t know at the time that Zimmerman had stalked Trayvon Martin by car before he stalked Trayvon Martin on foot?”

     Good question about the wife. An accessory after the fact? One has to ask given her behavior as presented by the State today.

175. so i wonder what they were going to do with all that money they were transferring..at that stage O’Mara was pro bono. It’s obvious they were trying to get a lower bond by appearing not to have money…but were they just going to spend it? They obviously didn’t think they had to be accountable for it if they tried to hide it.

     • Put the money together with the second passport they concealed and you get “flight risk”. O’Mara says he had the second passport? Does that mean he knew that the one he was handing in was about to expire? He “forgot” about the live passport? Maybe he was just going to leave it on his desk, where GZ could see it, while he was called away to another office for a moment? Only to return a few moments later, “surprised” to find both gone? (No need to discuss the packet of cash he found in the drawer).

       Anyway, the upshot of all these activities shows that GZ has no faith at all in his own defense. I can see why, because now he can’t even take the stand in his own defense! And it’s his own fault that this came to be that way.

       • i think you may be right lonnie….this is how i see it…

         2004 passport lost

         April 17, 2012…George and Shellie Zimmerman are recorded talking about both passports..TWO…1..2..passports…3 days before the bond hearing

         April 20, 2012…bond hearing, my passport expires in May 2012 Your Honour…here take it, i’m not a flight risk…i have no money, ask my wife if you don’t believe me.

         April 26, 2012…Defence attorney O’Mara can prove he received the passport on the 26th and just forgot to hand it in……why does that matter, your client was recorded speaking about the passport on the 17th, 3 days before the bond hearing. Why does it matter when he handed it over to you.

         I am not sure but i think i read that although Zim lost his passport in 2004, he only applied for a new one a couple of weeks after the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin. I’m sure that detail is somewhere but i can’t remember where at this time.

         Oh George, a little too smug for your own good me thinks!!

       • here is the prosecutors motion, not sure if you already have it NLME

         • Nice — thank you! I’ve added it to the Update section.

           P.S. All that’s left with the bcclist evidence dump is me putting the links Lonnie, you, and I scraped together into a posting. Meaning, all the links have been collected now (thanks to Lonnie Starr/you) and something should be live this weekend. Thank you (again) for your help with this.

       • acually i was wrong, he’s had the 2nd passport for years…bad move george, even the faithful are doubting you now.

       • They talk about $9k because they think $10,000 is a number which will trip some sort of auto suspicion.

       • no problem NLME, we all appreciate the work you do here and i am happy to have helped a little.

       • Reading over the motion…it’s unbelievable the amont of common sense these two geniuses lack!

         @Toneii, financial transactions (deposit/withdrawal) more than $10k must be reported to IRS.

       • Yes, Toneii. $10,000 cash transactions are considered “too big” and the bank makes you fill a form saying what it’s for, or some other way flags it up. Supposed to be to stop terrorists and drug dealers accessing lots of cash at once but mostly it makes no sense.

       • During the bond/bail hearing was something said about that one submitted passport as expiring in May? I will have to find that tidbit of info on the original transcripts to verify. If this is true, then how does one’s attorney, without looking like a fool, manage to overlook another more recent passport that was not handed over to the judge.

       • Jo,
         You were not mistaken, the passport was aquired two weeks after he shot Martin. You read correctly and it is reported as such on Abcnews.go.com/us/george-zimmermans-bond-revoked. I am not happy with the judge taking the passport lightly, Zimmerman knew what he was doing when he only gave one passport. He knew he should have turned it over and why not? How convenient that you give the one that was about to expire. One of the major things is how Omara has turned into a puppet for Zimmerman. Zimmerman and his family have shown they could careless about the law. Omara claimed when he first turned Zimmerman in that Zimmerman came to him and said what do I do with this money, he said that Zimmerman told him that his brother was monitoring the accounts. Omara only came forth because his investigators found that money and he figured it was only a matter of time before prosecution would know. They spent 56,000 in one week and made over 200,000 that they put in their personal credit union account. Omara was pro bono and the State of Florida was picking up the tab as well. Him and his wife could care less that he killed this young man, all they were concerned with was getting him off scott free just like all of his other criminal activity. Omara is all tangled up and is looking like a fool. He is so turned around he has brought in a criminal attorney to help him. Zimmerman has mucked this case up with his blatant disrespect of the law and could very well screw up Omara’s reputation as an attorney with having to lie so much to protect him and Zimmerman. I personally would like to see a statement of where the 56,000 went, I want to know id Taaffee got hush money. Zimmerman and his wife are really stupid, this is nothing similar to the other crimes he has been able to slide by, daddy cant help him and he better pay attention. Zimmerman on the video of him at the police station showed how confident and happy he was just strolling up those stairs all happy. I would never have guessed this man just killed someone days prior. P.s. when you go to the Abc site be forewarned of incoming nausea because those comments are rediculous.

       • @ riisey

         when the news first came out about this, a few days after the bond hearing, it was explained the $50,000+ plus went on paying out credit cards and other bills, and moving out of where they were living. And I guess paying for somewhere to live now, in “hiding”. That is over now, of course, with him back in jail tomorrow. If he turns up.

       • riisey i completely agree, the passport lies have just been overlooked even though it is flat out suspicious behaviour. When people argue that omara had it on the 26th i just want to scream because the bond hearing was on the 20th and zimmerman already had his passport then. I think after the bond hearing o’mara would have requested info on the bank accounts and when he saw what they had been up to sat george down and said TELL ME EVERYTHING and that’s when zim coughed up the passport. O’mara is pretty smart, he knows the world is watching and waiting for anything that will sink zimmerman, so he would have demanded NO MORE SECRETS. George would be a nightmare client and a prosecutors dream if you ask me.

176. I love this site.Lost it for a while but just spent hours reading it. Here is something from our JFTM FB page. O’Mara said that he had the second passport since April 26th and that he “forgot” to turn it over to the court before Friday June 2nd. Alright fine let’s give them that. He claims he has proof that he had it since April 26th, but how exactly does he have proof of that? When UPS/ USPS deliver documents, do they note that they are delivering “one passport from George Zimmerman”?? I mean anything could have been delivered in an envelope. Alright fine, let’s pretend we believe him. What about the bond hearing on April 20th when O’Mara told the judge that this was GZ’s passport and that it was the only passport his client had and that he was turning it in? Why didn’t the potted plant (as the judge described GZ on Friday) tell his lawyer at that time that he had another passport (even if he was claiming that he didn’t know where it was)? From what I can ascertain, this second passport was the valid passport that expires in 2014 and it is the one GZ conveniently forgot he had.

     It was NOT the passport he claimed, he lost back in 2004. The one he claimed was lost in 2004 (and subsequently found) was the passport he decided to turn in to the court. THAT passport was not only EXPIRED in 2012, it had very likely been CANCELED by the US Passport Agency because that is what they normally do when you lose your passport. George Zimmerman must have known that, but of course, he turned in the expired/canceled passport (apparently without even telling his lawyer the tiny little fact that it was expired and canceled)! Now, how many of you have TWO VALID US passports?? Please raise your hand!! Don’t be shy now!

     Now, GZ and his wife also knew prior to the bond hearing on April 20th, that at the very least he had two existing passports even if they didn’t know exactly where they both were. We know this because they discussed both passports in the call recorded at the jail on April 17th, three days before the bond hearing. I don’t understand why the judge dismissed the matter of the passport out of hand. A lot of things seem very wrong with that in my opinion!!

     Too tires right now to say anything else. Very confused as to why the judge is so dismissive of the second passport.

     • Deborah,

       I too am curious as to how the judge thought so lightly of the second passport, do you think he was giving O mara the benefit of the doubt? I am crious about this judge. I like his decision to revoke but I feel as though he seems a little sympathetic toward Zimmerman and with that sympathy Zimmerman took advantage and now judge is upset. I got a feeling it won’t last long and zimmerman will be released again. I hope not but I just dont really care for this judge.

       • I hope you are wrong about him possibly being released at the new bond hearing Riisey. Not a fan of this judge at all either. I am hoping he is pissed of enough at being made to look like a fool that George will be remanded to custody until trial but I have my doubts too. Everyone has been bending over backwards to give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt.

         • Zimmerman’s own lawyer is saying bail will likely not be granted this time around. Maybe O’mara is just setting low expectations?

     • It is obvious to me also that they were all lying and that O’Mara is trying to take the fall at least on that part. He doesn’t want this guy to lose all credibility. It is O’Mara’s reputation that is on the line now. I think the other lawyers quit because they realized that this guy has no rsepect for rules and would damage their careers and reputations in the long run. I think O’Mara is risking his license now, just my opinion. Clearly, he knows that this guy is a loose canon. For now we will sit back and watch it (his case) self destruct. How anyone case send this creep a dime, beats me. I wish him nothing but a fair trial, but these folks taking every chance to make excuses for him are getting a little taxing. They never give TM the benefit of the doubt, ever.

     • Hey Deborah…I know u from J4TM page. This passport thing is so important and I’m getting a stupid feeling that the judge is somehow lacking in some areas. Does he have some kinda agenda????

177. @Milo, your above comment is brief, to the point, and spot on.

     >. I’m part of Neighborhood Watch. We are trained: Observe and report. You don’t follow. You don’t confront. And you NEVER carry a gun. GZ broke all the tenets.<

     The GZ defenders continue to make up any and all excuses for his outrageous behavior. There was nothing organized about this Neighborhood Watch. Zimmerman did indeed break all the rules as outlined in the NSA. In his own mind he saw himself as the big hero. He profiled Martin as suspicious, then took the law into his own hands by leaving his vehicle with his fire arm and proceeded to stalk his assumed suspect with the intent to hold him until the police arrived. That was illegal whether someone is a NW or not.

178. He’s back in jail:
     http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-03/news/os-george-zimmerman-jail-20120603_1_jail-today-bond-jailhouse-phone
     Of course O’Mara would use this as a reason to trust George’s word.
     Looky everybody, He didn’t run!

     • If I was George I wouldnt run either until I finished collecting all my money from the fools who are giving it to me. What a coincidence that he got a new passport 2 weeks after he killed Martin. He and his family including that wife are a piece of work.

       • I was just reading that George Zimmerman has arrived back to jail. Omara is already stating he is gonna ask for another bail hearing. I am so sick of this, I guess letting him sit for a little while to simmer and pay for lieing is out of the question. Omara is bending over backwards to make Zimmerman the victim, while the real victim lay dead at 17. Zimmerman has had way too much compassion shown on him.

       • Riisey Zimmerman has actually had the new passport since 2004. The abcnews report was incorrect. I believe the new bond hearing is scheduled for tomorrow actually. If not most definitely sometime this week. I don’t understand it, If it were any one of us in this position, would we be getting treated so respectfully? WTH is going on?? Is it usually this easy to get court dates?

       • @Deborah,
         Thanks for correcting me, I dont want to run with lies like Zimmerman supporters.

179. NMLE, I have emailed you my new map of witnesses. Please have a look.

     I’ll send my summary of witness’ accounts asap.

     • Thank you — email received! BccList.com evidence dump coming tonight or tomorrow.

     • NMLE,
       I’ve emailed you an summary of witness’s statements which I believe should be posted together with the map.
       I have completed the work for witnesses # 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 11, 12 & 13.
       Remains witnesses # 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 & 20.
       I would really appreciate help for completing that work. Any volunteer around? If you (NMLE) agree, the summary can be forwarded to be completed.

       • Would anybody be interested in recapping what Witnesses 15-20 told investigators/police? If so, shoot me an email (thelist@bcclist.com) and I’ll forward you what Tchoupi has already put together. What he’s done is awesome and very simple to follow.

       • Okay, I’m up for it, NLME has my e!

         • Thank you (again), Lonnie. Email coming soon.

       • Thank you Lonnie.

       • NMLE,

         I have sent an email with my updates.
         Please have a look and keep Lonnie in the loop.

         Tchoupi

180. I have enjoyed reading your blog. I’ve followed it for some time now and decided to finally respond. There is one burning question that I have that hasn’t been discussed in the media or in any of the blogs I have followed: How does Zimmerman’s head become bloody like it is in the pictures that were taken February 27 when there was no blood dripping from his wounds the night of February 26? Are those photos credible? Could something else have caused additional injuries after Zimmerman was released? The timing is off. No flowing blood the night of the killing, but credible pics of bloody wounds the morning after? Please explain.

     • Thank you for the comment and checking out the blog!

       The only pictures I have seen were from the 26th (I believe). Do you know where pictures from the 27th can be found?

181. I have enjoyed reading your blog. I’ve followed it for some time now and decided to finally respond. There is one burning question that I have that hasn’t been discussed in the media or in any of the blogs I have followed: How does Zimmerman’s head become bloody like it is in the pictures that were taken February 27 when there was no blood dripping from his wounds the night of February 26? Are those photos credible? Could something else have caused additional injuries after Zimmerman was released? The timing is off. No flowing blood the night of the killing, but credible pics of bloody wounds the morning after? Please explain

     • Thank you (again) for the comment and checking out the blog!

       The only pictures I have seen were from the 26th (I believe). Do you know where pictures from the 27th can be found?

182. I am referring to the shots of him in his jacket from several angles. Were those taken the night of the incident? If so, when? I thought that the video of his arrival was when he first went to the station. I am confused about the timing of the photos. The police video shows Z less than an hour after the killing with no blood dripping from his head. Was he taken somewhere else first, photographed, and then cleaned up before going to the station?

     http://www.theblaze.com/stories/new-bloody-photos-details-more-of-george-zimmermans-injuries/

     • I believe the surveillance cameras – even though recently purchased/installed – weren’t high def enough to capture the blood/”injuries” (but this could be wrong).

       Hey, it took the car he was in about 30 minutes to get to a station that was less than 15 minutes away. For various reasons, I’ve said for awhile that I want to see video from inside the cop car.

     • welcome on board, diaryof…….

       Those photos are from the first big evidence dump.

       They were taken at the police station not long after they took him in, with a quality camera by a trained photographer. It even looks like some attempt at floodlighting. He is still in the clothes he wore during the fight. (His wife later brought him a change of clothes so these could be taken for evidence).

       The “no-blood” photos are the cheap CCTV shots from the walk in to the station. As well as being grainy and low res, they are very poorly lit, creating both shadows and strong highlights, which quite distort the image. Those things are not designed to identify details. They’re just enough to recognise who’s coming in (with a time stamp) and maybe to show behaviour, ie was the accused co-operative, were the cops being rough with him etc.

       Paramedics HAD cleaned GZ up a bit, sitting in the police car at the scene. Their description tallies quite well with the photos. The only earlier photo is the one taken with the cell phone before the cops even got there (by a neighbour, probably Jeremy) also showing similar injuries.

       The blood in the station pix (the ones you linked) seems mostly dried or drying, about what you’d expect as further seepage from recent, but cleaned up, cuts.

       I think on the whole we here are satisfied with the pictures. It’s the how he says he got those injuries we’re not happy with.

183. http://www.thespec.com/print/article/727192

     Here is a caption saying that this picture was a February 27 photo.

     • Maybe early in the morning of the 27th? That’s definitely the same jacket.

     • Yep. The photos were taken by officer Serino. He took the crime scene pi with the numbered markers, then used a metal detector to try and find the shell casing. About 11.15 pm he was called to the police station, where he took the pictures you refer to; then was there when Mrs Z brought the change of clothing.

       He then returned to the crime scene next day a bit after noon too take daylight photos.

       So the station shots could be recorded as February 27, if it had gone midnight by the time they were logged.

       This timing tells us they were taken FOUR HOURS after the shooting.

184. Very interesting! This whole case is interesting and very, very sad. I have a son who is 6’4″ and only 16. The talks we have had recently breaks my heart! I won’t even let him stay out on the walk path past dark. He could easily get bated into a situation that could get him killed. We also have SYG here in Georgia. So tragic and frightening!

     • I understand how you feel, I am scared for mine as well. My son is 15 years old, he is a Duke Tip scholar, A-B student, football player, and wrestler. I almost had a nervous break down when he told me he walked to his friends home while I was at work, because he wanted to trade a video game. When I got finished fussing at him he had a tear in his eye. I felt bad and told him I didn’t want anything to happen to him or I would just die. It is sad but you really find out how people feel about you when a case like this comes along. The comments I have read makes me never want to let him leave home. I truly would not wish death on any ones child, I do’t care what race they are. I am a medical professional and I have held babies of all races in my arms, it doesn’t matter who you are pain is pain and we all feel it. I can’t help but be brought to tears knowing this young man died alone and scared.

185. Guys, I don’t think he’s going to go for SYG.

     He’s going to take a plea bargain. If he doesn’t get bail, it’s only 2 years on top of time served.

     That way the “facts” are just lightly skimmed over. That way he’s the injured innocent who can’t afford to fight the case, and is afraid he’s bound to lose. Because of all the infair publicity. The publicity, not for being guilty.

     Plenty of folks out there that would keep believing that. Maybe even help him get back on his feet at the end of it.

     • I’m not sure Angela Corey is going to be interested in offering a plea bargain.

186. It will be really interesting to see what excuses O’Mara has to offer, for turning in a reported-as-stolen passport, that was about to expire, while making no mention of the live passport replacement. Most especially when that is added to the concealed money, that GZ spoke about, in code, to his wife, before the court needed that information, to make a fair decision on the bail.

     Now the Judge is made to look like a fool, or rather, like the defense and the defendant are playing him for one, by showing the court no respect! All we need to learn now is that GZ had brochures of Israel, eh?

     It’s the “respect for the court” that has to have a very large impact on this case. If GZ has so little respect for the court, how much could he have had for LE in general? Obviously little to none at all, judging by what he has had to say about the SPD. My guess, after hearing all this is, I’m forced to conclude that GZ thought the SPD and the courts were all “a bunch of simpleminded jerks” who he could easily fool by the simple expedient of manipulating the evidence after he took the fatal shot. That and manipulating the police department he knew so much about! Hope the SP, makes sure the jury knows about how well GZ knew the police department he needed to fool, to cover the evidence and get away with this crime.

     I have never heard such foolishness… He buys two guns, one for himself and the other for his wife, to defend against a dog?!? Why not call animal control? Instead, the dog problem simply disappears without a trace for some mysterious reason, and next we find that he carries his gun on patrols, after being appointed NW Captain. Judging by his conduct in court, I’d say that he really brought the guns for his NW role, but lies about it to conceal his real purpose, since he doesn’t want to appear to be a homicide intended gun nut.

     I wonder about that white kid that met TM at the store. Did he ever have reason to wander through the gated community? Do other white kids, who do not know GZ, and who GZ does not know, ever wander through or walk home using the short cut? See? There’s the problem, GZ could, if he didn’t have a clue, have actually been meeting some white kid at the gate that night, then what would he have done? Would he have simply left him alone? Or would he have identified himself? My guess is, he certainly would not have described him as one of those “goons who always get away”!

     Even while the narrative shows no reason for his anger, since “those goons” never seem to get stopped by him, but only innocent black kids, who of course “get away” because they haven’t done anything.

     • Why would Zimmerman have brochures of Israel? Is there no extradition? The white kid he met at the store? The one who bought a blunt for him? I don’t think he was involved in the gated community.

       • Confused. Link?

       • The last time I linked to the site, there were all sorts of insults hurled at me. There was an examination of the video from the 7/11 after TM left the store. Three young men wearing hoodies came into the store after talking to TM outside the store. One of these men was white. There was a purchase of 3 blunts.

         When the men went out there was another face to face with TM, and then TM continued back to the direction he came.

         The silouette of TM outside the store matched the one before TM came in to buy his snacks. The pin on his hoodie reflected the light from inside the store.

         This could have been a very good photoshop, but it looked authentic to me. In Florida the minimum age for buying tobacco is 18, and blunts are considered to be tobacco.

         I will understand if you don’t want to post this, but please look at the video yourself. Thanks.

         • The blunt thing is a non-issue to me. I’m more interested in the Israeli brochure comment.

       • Do you have the links to the stories about the white kid and the brochures?

     • I have watched this video over and over, not one time is Martin seen speaking with any of those young men. These young men came in the store several minutes later just as the other customers who came in to purchase goods and leave. Not one time did Martin be seen with these young men. On the free republic site and conservative tree. They are attempting to try and keep these stupid antics up so that people would stop supporting mr Martin. The videos are only shown on youtube and on the conservative sites. Please go over and take a look. I watched that long boring video of the 7-11 footage, they did not include all this crap in evidence because it is not evidence of anything. Martin was never seen with a blunt. His toxicology report is evidence of what was in his system. These people have no morals and are complete idiots.

187. I can’t pull up the entire comment, but here is where you can find this on treehouse. It is such an ugly site, I hope this will save you from some scrolling.
     The Updated Trayvon Martin 7-11 Raw Feed Video from DiwataMan (Non-Media Version)
     Posted on May 30, 2012 by sundancecracker

     • I got it Thanks Electricsandra.

       I agree, this conservative website has a horrible agenda. They use images of a Trayvon that is still alive to make their point. The autopsy has already shown that TM has natural and healthy teeth. TM had pot in his system but at a very low level suggesting he smoked no pot for days. In spite of their attempt to make TM a junky / drug dealer, all they have against him is unfortunately pretty common in today’s youth in America, and more importantly, it is not hard drug.

       That said, I thought that TM went out for smoking to explain why he wouldn’t walk home faster from the 7-11. I actually thought he went smoking pot but the autopsy report contradicts my thought. The lighter found in his pocket supports the fact that he went out for smoking. The new video is a more direct evidence. At the end of the day, all we know shows TM was not walking on drug that night GZ shot him.

       The way I see TM’s character is that of a teenager in need for attention from people around him. All description of classmates, friends & family I’ve seen so far describe him as someone funny. I really mean, the word “funny” is the recurring one. The few examples I have read of things TM would do at school, shows reveals more of a clown type of character.

       • Actually, after reviewing the vids again, there is no clear interaction between TM and the 3 young adults.
         The only thing clear is that TM took the road at 6:30pm which is when call ended and the next one started. Both of the calls (the ending and the starting) are to North Dade. From DeeDee’s account, it sounds like they were both to her.
         If TM left at 6:30, so he should have reached the mailboxes at around 6:45. This is about when he got a series of incoming and outgoing calls. Before starting his 18min call with DeeDee. It is during those 18min that TM would have told DeeDee about GZ.

       • Two little things here.

         As a very-recent former smoker, I STILL have cigarette lighters in several handbags, and no doubt in overcoat pockets. They are useful to have. Having one on you proves nothing about current intentions. In my day it was ordinary tobacco we kept in pockets and went outside to smoke, so our (also smoking) parents wouldn’t disapprove.

         One thing those longer 7-11 videos might be good for.

         Tchoupi: Do they show RAIN?? It would be great if they did. Then we could put a closer time on DeeDee’s statement that he ran from the store because the rain started to come down heavy. So give us a closer time he might have arrived at the north-west shortcut.

         • Aussie,

           Interesting that you mention this. I quit smoking 3 weeks ago — probably around the same time you did — and recently found a lighter in my golf bag and another one in a light jacket I wear every once in awhile.

           But, not that any of this matters. It’s not illegal to have a lighter. And, even if Trayvon was using tobacco, it doesn’t justify a chase by an armed adult.

         • We do know it was raining due to young Martin and the 3 guys that came after him wearing either a hoodie or cap. The 3 boys most likely were walking as young Martin was as well, not together as diwataman has spread to ever conservative site there is. I say they were walking because they didnt take their hoodie cover/ hat off, but as you notice as well, just like Trayvon they paid for their goods and left peacefully. Notice after them a young lady with her hoodie but her hoodie was down because she drove to the store, I noticed her pull up, I also saw her back out of the parking lot. Must have been a hoodie convention that night because the way Zimmerman acted, hoodies were rare. Anyway, I ferl as though it must have started sprinkling a little on the way for all of them to have their hoodies up, and one with cap on. It did not seem suspicious to the clerk nor to the woman in the red who pulled up and entered while they exited. This video that was put out and stated did Trayvon have friends in the neighborhood, is trying to say Trayvon was smoking a blunt on the way home bought by these young men. Wouldnt they think that those guys if they were with him be with him when ge walked home. Also why would Martin go in first, the clerk doesnt know him. This has gotten rediculous but at least we know it did rain and most likely started sprinkling right as he got to the store.

       • Congrats @ Aussie and NMLE on quitting smoking.

         I wondered about the lighter, too, but found it insignificant but couldn’t figure out why I dismissed it. One thing for sure, if a previous smoker forgot about a lighter in a pocket, it wouldn’t cause damage to laundry like a matchbook. We don’t even know if the lighter found was operable.

     • Electricsandra,

       You posted another link without looking at it for yourself or did you believe what you posted first about the video looking authentic to you? I looked at this video, I looked at several and did not see Trayvon nor his shadow in either videos, but I did manage to end up reading the most hateful comments I have ever read. May I ask what you saw ?

188. Does anyone question deedee,s testimony? I just got finished listening to it and she doesn’t sound sure of her answers and I also feel that the investigator was leading her testimony. At one point she almosts sounds like she was gonna say “trayvon bumped someone”.

189. Watching HLN with Jane Velez…couldn’t believe the transformation in Franke Taaffe…calm and rational and answered question directly. Is it just me, or does GZ in new mug shot look as if he’s trying to change his appearance? He’s growing his hair in, put on a few ‘lbs’.

     • Yes, I notice that too. The shaved head is more of the rebellious tough boy look. Now the lawyers are going to try to fool us by creating an illusion of a clean cut man.

190. NLME – Great work. I have a question I hope you will answer for me. What about the evidence makes you believe that Trayvon went down the frontside of the townhomes on Twin Trees rather than down the middle between the backside of the townhomes? I have always believed that GZ went down the frontside of the townhomes and cut through between the townhomes to cut off Trayvon, and I am trying to reconcile that with your theory. Thank you in advance.

     • Thank you for the comment!

       I originally assumed Trayvon went down the center path. It seemed to make the most sense…

       

       But, there were a few things that bothered me with this scenario.

       1) Zimmerman said Trayvon was running towards the back entrance. Given his truck’s location, that would (likely) mean Trayvon was running down Twin Trees. (If Trayvon was running on the sidewalk towards the T, it would be hard to say he was running towards the back entrance.) But, given Zimmerman’s absolutely horrible explanation of directions the entire call, you can’t have too much confidence that he nailed the “Back Entrance” part.

       2) Brandy Green says Trayvon was on her back porch before being chased/shot. The only way Trayvon gets to her back porch, then gets confronted again and chased North is if Zimmerman comes up from the South. DeeDee’s testimony also fits quite well with this scenario.

       

       Which map above is correct? I’m not sure. Both make his Stand Your Ground and/or Self Defense case nearly impossible but version #2 — the Twin Trees version — is overly damning.

       • GZ and possibly someone else had a hand in altering the crime scene. Hoodies have pretty shallow pockets, try running, less twisting and turning, in one, with a large Arizona iced tea can and other things in the pockets of one. You’ll see that they fall out pretty fast if you don’t keep hands on them.

         I was also looking for change, coins, could it be he left some on the back porch when he sat or started running? Or did I just miss it in the evidence reports?

       • The money was in the pants pocket. Those are quite deep, you can see him hunting, in the 7-11 video.

         The button……….the button turned out to be ON the hoodie (police evidence somewhere in the dump) but is listed as content of pockets on the evidence list. The skittles were found at the scene in a pocket, but were tested for possible blood evidence, which is odd.

         Yes, how the can got to be in the shirt is very strange. They do say “shirt” not “hoodie” so did he have a shirt with a pocket?

       • @aussie –

         The fact that the seven-eleven bag was marked as evidence and found in the crime scene are going to become significant. You CAN stash your Arizona Iced Tea product in your pouch pocket (which is the type of pocket in the hoodie I think Trayvon Martin was wearing) — perhaps when tired of carrying it. I’ve done that sort of thing myself and find nothing peculiar about doing so.

         What’s weird is that the seven-eleven bag is on the ground, but the can of Arizona Iced Tea remained in the pocket. That is, until removed for administering life-saving actions.

         If Trayvon Martin had used the bag with the Arizona in it to whack GZ, why would the bag be out of the pocket, but the Arizona can be makes its way into the Trayvon Martin’s pocket?

         Someone deliberately caused the Arizona product to be disconnected from the bag. If both were in the pocket at the time of the altercation, this disconnect of the bag from the Arizona can is impossible without tampering. If both were not in the pocket, the disconnection of where the items were found is also impossible since if both were outside the pocket at the altercation, how did the bag (holding the Arizona can) remain outside the pocket while the Arizona product made its way into the pocket without tampering?

         If there was no tampering, the only logical explanation I can come up with is that both items fell during the altercation and Trayvon Martin was retrieving his fallen things AFTER the altercation ended in order to continue on his path home. If Trayvon Martin had already started picking up his things and stuffing them in his pockets, George Zimmerman did NOT shoot in self-defense and he was also not SYG.

         If the altercation had already ended, there is no self-defense ground for shooting someone. To me, that looks like anger and revenge on Zimmerman’s part.

     • Hi Cherokee
       we’ve been thinking down the street (Twin Trees) for a good while. As NLME says, that’s the route he’d be able to SEE which way he’s running. He says “towards the back” before he gets out of the car, while from any probable parking spot he’d not see the T junction on the inner path, so him turning towards the back. But he’d see down Twin Trees.

       So of course if he’s running after him, that would also be down Twin Trees. TM may have gone all the way down, or through one of the unpaved cut-throughs, at the “I’ve lost him” remark.

       This would put both of them at or near the southern end of the path. A chase with arguments going back up north (and seen/heard by witnesses) is how the shooting ended up being only 3 houses off the northern end.

       This fits neatly with the known times. Had TM gone on the inner path, and GZ followed him there, they’d have BOTH had to spend a minute and a half hanging about doing nothing. Otherwise neither would be at that scene at that time for the shooting to happen.

       GZ says he spent the time “looking for a street sign”. TM can’t say. His lady friend says he was near the south end (“at his father’s house”). His detractors say he did hang about, waiting to attack GZ as went from the “street sign hunt” towards his truck.

       GZ had no reason to look for a street sign
       * the estate has 3 streets
       * he’s been there 2 years and patrolling it
       * he had no need of an address… the police had asked him where his truck was parked (which was not in the street he supposedly went to look at)
       * he told the police he’d tell them where he is when they arrive…..instead of agreeing to meet them at his truck .. so clearly he was not directly headed back there

       TM had no reason to hang around the NORTH end hoping to attack GZ. Even if he HAD wanted to attack him
       * last TM saw, he was running down Twin Trees
       * GZ was running after him going SOUTH
       * When GZ says “lost him” he can’t see TM so TM can’t see him, either, to know if he changed direction

       So the last place he’d expect to be able to attack him would be at the other end.

       • Excellent analysis. As aussie mentioned, I forgot to include my biggest hang up with map 1 is that it means both of them would have just been chilling 40 feet south of the T for 1-2 minutes (while George should have been returning to his truck).

       • The more I thought about this scenario the more it now makes sense. GZ was sitting in his parked SUV at the top of Twin Trees road checking him out for some time. After leaving the clubhouse awning Trayvon walked east, however he did not cross the road and take that top route as he’d already seen GZ eyeing him, so there was no need to cross over close by GZ’s vehicle and go that way home. This is the first time Zimmerman projects his own psychological suspicions when he tells the dispatcher there’s a real suspicious guy, etc. After Trayvon left the shelter from the rain he turned south on Twin Trees road in the direction toward the back gate entrance and was then GZ got out of his vehicle followingTrayvon on foot. This was confirmation to Trayvon he was for sure being stalked by a creep or crazy man, so he ran to the next nearest cut through into the row of houses between Twin Trees road and Retreat View Circle. At this point Zimmerman told the dispatcher “He ran” and then quickened his own pace. The dispatcher suspected GZ left the vehicle when he heard the sound of the door chimes and GZ puffing in the wind which prompted him to ask Zimmerman, “Are you following him?” WhenTrayvon entered into the row of houses he felt safer as he approached his house thinking he had lost the creep so he stopped running and slowed his pace to talk on the phone while still walking in the direction to his house. I don’t think he made it to the porch before Zimmerman confronted him. It was mentioned earlier about the knocking sound heard in the background after Zimmerman stopped running. I would not dismiss this as his handgun being prepped and ready for defense. Shortly thereafter Trayvon saw his pursuer coming toward him and asked “Why are you following me? ”
         When Zimmerman exited his vehicle he was on a mission and not about to let his suspect get away and why he followed and tried to detain Trayvon until the police arrived. This was enough to put fear into Trayvon. After Trayvon’s last words heard by Dee Dee there was only a sixty second timeline for this altercation to take place, the better part of it Trayvon crying for help. George Zimmerman is a pathological liar if he says he was attacked from behind and then beaten into almost unconsciousness, managing to,unholster the gun and then struggled for it in this short period of time, not to mention no evidence of knuckle wounds on Trayvon’s hands other than a very small cut to his left hand ring finger, which poses the question how Zimmerman did receive his head and facial wounds. There are too many contradictions in his story for it to be factual.
         I think this will come down to timelines, the DNA evidence and the intent of GZ’s actions and not so much the witnesses who heard the arguing and struggle. Given George Zimmerman’s depraved state of mind that night I can understand why he’s been charged with second degree murder.

191. Someone on this blog had mentioned “who would give gz money for his site?” I had actually received an email sometime ago that stated that Koch paper products were donating money to him.since then I haven’t purchased any of their products.I figured someone with a lot of money had to be donating to him because there’s no way that in these hard economic times the average joe would give gz money.

     • FALSE says snopes.com:

       http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/koch.asp

       In fact, Koch has rebutted NRA attempts to allow employees to bring weapons to work.

192. O’mara is going to delay filing a bond motion for several weeks. George will be cooling his heels in jail for a while. O’mara probably stuck his finger into the wind and got it blown away:
     http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-05/news/os-george-zimmerman-bond-delay-20120605_1_delay-filing-new-bond-motion

     • An addendum. The judge has demanded that GZ and SZ will have to explain themselves. This would require that George actually testify at a new bond hearing, and with surprises the norm in this case, who knows what George may say (or be asked)? O’Mara must be terrified of this by now. Easier to leave George cooling his heels in solitary than allow him to speak in court again.
       Because after all, donations have again spiked at the website.

193. Oh My Goodness! Are those the confessed murderer’s meds in that big plastic bag the female Seminole Sheriff is carrying?

     Is that really the confessed murderer who got picked up and re-arrested again? Looks so much like the Mexicans he seem to despise so much. In fact, none of his mugshots look like the same person, and none resemble the picture of him in the dark business suit with the blue shirt and tie.

     Is that a fresh shave he’s sporting? Did Shellie dye his eyelashes blond or did he have her pluck them out in attempt to disguise his identity?

     The $500 placed in his commissary account might be an indication the confessed murderer won’t being going anywhere for a while.

     O’Mara is starting to show just as much contempt for the courts as his client by even considering the thought of asking for a new bond hearing this soon.

     Prediction: Within the next 2 weeks all sheets and cords will be removed…..

     http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

     T. G.

     • Hi Sleuth

       I posted comment (189) earlier that GZ seems to altering his appearance. Put on weight and allowing his hair to fill in…he does look more of Mexican descent…guessing in an attempt to blend in. Hey, I wonder if they will be confiscating his computer to see what he’s up to online?

     • Holy Moly, Batman! That does look like a lot of meds…

     • Despite all the pharmaceuticals he brought with him, check out what he purchased from the commissary. I think he will be in the hospital soon for withdrawal as he will have to take those drugs as directed while in prison.

194. A MUST READ.

     A very interesting article on the findings of audio forensics specialist Alan R. Reich. He actually hears Trayvon saying, “I’m begging you”.

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trayvon-martin-case-911-call-two-experts-reach-two-much-different-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html

     T. G.

     • If true, it’s REALLY disturbing.

       Thanks for sharing, Sleuth.

195. Trayvon’s female friend’s interview with the State Prosecutor, Bernie de la Rionda and investigator, T. C. Olsteen.

     She heard Trayvon say, “Get off, get off”.

     http://www. redacted . com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=PfVTM8sqz4k&NR=1

     T. G.

     • Do we really think it is wise to have a picture up of what is presumed to be DeeDee? She is a teenaged girl frightened and with Frank Taaffe blasting her on cable TV, I don’t think it is appropriate. I know we want the information out but what is happening with posting her ID info is wrong. At this point is against a court order as the judge is keeping this anonymous. I don’t know if that his her or not. If it is, it is inappropriate. If it is not her, then it puts someone else not involved in danger.

       • I’m on a mobile device and can’t see the chain of comments that I’m responding to. When I get in front of a PC again, I will remove any (non MSM) link picturing DeeDee.

       • Hi princss6,

         YOU STATED: princss6 Says:

         June 6, 2012 at 6:54 am
         Do we really think it is wise to have a picture up of what is presumed to be DeeDee? She is a teenaged girl frightened and with Frank Taaffe blasting her on cable TV, I don’t think it is appropriate. I know we want the information out but what is happening with posting her ID info is wrong. At this point is against a court order as the judge is keeping this anonymous. I don’t know if that his her or not. If it is, it is inappropriate. If it is not her, then it puts someone else not involved in danger.

         ========================================================

         YOU STATED: “At this point is against a court order as the judge is keeping this anonymous.”

         Can you please explain what’s against a court order? I’m not sure what you mean. Can you please provide me with a link to the source for the judge’s order to which you make reference? Thanks.

         YOU STATED: “If it is, it is inappropriate. If it is not her, then it puts someone else not involved in danger.”

         It is clear that you’re quite upset about the Youtube video, and the program that featured Frank Taaffe. Have you considered directing your concerns towards the person(s) who actually created the Youtube video, or the producers of the show in which Taaffe was a guest?

         Do you by chance have any links to credible sources about this child being threatened harm by anyone? Do you have any evidence or proof of these threats, especially any made by Frank Taaffe? Do you have any evidence or proof that “DD’s” mom or attorney reported threats made against her to LE? If you can, please provide links to credible sources. Thanks.

         I can certainly understand any of us here becoming upset about anybody being truly being threatened, especially child, but I’ve not heard any such thing.

         Please don’t take this the wrong way, and I’m truly trying my best to hear you out. However, I think it crosses the line, especially when you accuse people of putting a child in danger, threatening harm to a child (or anyone for that matter), saying a child is “frightened of Frank Taaffe” without providing any proof or evidence, of “DD”, her mom or attorney making statements about receiving threats that they may have not made. I respect your opinion, but I certainly don’t agree with it. It’s definitely time to move on from this topic.

         T. G.

     • Damn — nice find. I wish DeeDee’s pic wasn’t displayed. I’ve redacted a portion of the link (but I’d love to watch/hear a clip with just her audio and no picture).

     • Sleuth,
       We know you dont mean any harm. This entire case has us all super sensitive, it is amazing how this young mans death has touched so many. I was in discussion with a Canadian male yesterday about the case, seems he is following very close as well. I have been very shocked from the beginning the lack of any type of concern for young Martin being a youth, the Sanford police dept seemed to not care that they are protected under the law. It seems the same for Dee Dee and Austin. I know why you posted it, I also know these young people are under scrutiny but there is not a whole lot anyone can do about it. Unlike most cases involving the youth, all discretion has been thrown out the window. I read a tweet from Martins family attorney saying that people have been to Martins friends or anyone from his school. They are approaching them wirh money in exchange for dirt on Martin. It is really sad. America has gone crazy!!! Thanks Sleuth.

       • Hi risey,

         Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful words, and giving me the benefit of the doubt. I never posted a Youtube video link before, and usually avoid them unless something really catches my attention. I thought only the link would appear so that commenters could click on it then go to the video.

         As I mentioned NLME, I only posted it for the contents of her statement, nothing more. I’m not all that interested in what the witnesses look like. For all we know, the picture could be of the person who actually created the video.

         YOU STATED: “ This entire case has us all super sensitive, it is amazing how this young mans death has touched so many”.

         I totally agree with you 100%!!! All I could do was cry when I heard “DD’s” statement. Poor thing sounded like she was crying during the interview. Just wish the DA, Bernie de la Rionda had given her a chance to finish her sentences before he started this rapid line of firing one question after another. Perhaps he was simply preparing her for what it will be like during the trial.

         Hopefully people can get past their emotional and personal bias, and do something truly constructive of a broader scope for all children by considering making a one time, or on-going donations to the “Justice For Trayvon Martin” website, if they really want to make a difference in the lives of children.

         It just seems as though many people are losing sight of the the real issue. This case is not about me, you, witness #8, #13, #11 or the SP, defense attorneys (although I suspect O’Mara would love nothing more than to make it all about him), the DA, it is about seeking truth and justice for Trayvon and due process for the confessed murderer.

         YOU STATED: “I have been very shocked from the beginning the lack of any type of concern for young Martin being a youth, the Sanford police dept seemed to not care that they are protected under the law.”

         I heard about the school children being bribed. Definitely a sad state of affairs, when for any reason, yet alone for the purposes of trying to assassinate the character of an innoncent, unarmed child who was needlessly murdered, children are being bribed. I sure hope the principal reported this type of illegal activity and immediately informed the parents of the children who were approached.

         Yes, I agree, some Americans have gone crazy, and are experiencing a mass psychosis that I don’t think Dr. Phil can heal. It’s going to take a lot of prayer to get us through this very rough patch.

         Unfortunately LEO’s are given a certain amount of leeway to play fast and loose with facts and interviewing techniques. I know it will be a long time coming, but I can’t wait for the results of the parallel investigation being conducted by the DOJ regarding the SPD.

         I don’t know if you’ve seen this video with audio of Trayvon in the 7-11, but you can actually hear him having an interesting short conversation with the store clerk, and saying, “Hello”, to someone on his cell phone, whom I suspect is witness #8, his female friend. Three guys (“The Three Amigos”), dressed in the scariest gear, and a lady in red come in after Trayvon leaves the store.

         I intended to post it right after I posted the Youtube video about witness #8’s statement, but thought I’d wait to see NLME’s position about it first. I have no way of knowing the ages of any of these guys, but suspect at least to of them are at least 18yo. because the clerk requests I.D. for the purchase of black and milds.

         Again, thank you for your encouraging words. It’s appreciated more than you know (big smile)!!!

         7-11 video
         

         You might also want to take a look at this article about how Judge Lester seems to be leaning towards governing himself according to the laws of Florida as it pertains to information being released about witnesses in this case. It’s very enlightening, especially for those who are not familiar with Florida laws.

         http://www.theskanner.com/article/Trayvon-Martin-Update-Judge-Revokes-Zimmermans-Bond-2012-06-02

         T. G.

       • Sleuth,
         Thanks and you are welcome. I have taken a vacation and I am trying to play catch up on what all I have missed. The video is just too sad for me, I keep thinking about the fact that he is real in this video. He is living and breathing, I never saw him alive, only his pictures. It is quite sad to view. It is horrifying to think of his last moments. I am with you on everything you mentioned in your comment to me. We have to really watch our youth, we have to continue to pray for them. I have a 15 year old son and I have to constantly speak with him and encourage him. I worry about him and his future as well as the future of all man. I am presently in Cancun and I have been looking at the news. I was just reading about the Texas man who claimed SYG in Texas, he killed his neighbor and wounded 2 others. I have been telling my family and friends that if Zimmerman gets away with this self defense case, it will cause a big stink and the SYG law will get worser and worser. It will be horrible. People will be dying at a higher rate, and their murderer will be claiming SYG!!

196. Guys I am still not sure about the whole Flashlight business.

     It was claimed from the start GZ had two flashlights.

     Two were found at the scene. There is NO evidence who they belonged to.

     The big flashlight was never fingerprinted or swabbed, that I can see in the lab reports. GZ makes no mention of using one, in any statements we have from him, first or 2nd or 3rd hand.

     The small one was attached to the Honda keys. I am not satisfied these are actually GZ’s keys, as we don’t know what kind of car he had.

     Even if they are his……….how does he get to drop them? if you get out of a car to chase someone, and you have a gun and a cell phone and maybe a torch to handle, you don’t HOLD your keys. Not in your hand and not between your teeth. You put them IN A POCKET or clip them on a belt-clip. Unless it was his only flashlight.

     So, he’s going to say it must have fallen out during the fight. In fact it would make a good marker for where the fight supposedly started. So even if he took them out again, in preparation of getting back to his truck 50 – 60 yards away…..

     So WHY WAS THE KEY FLASHLIGHT ON?????

     Serino says (p 80 of the dump)
     “I walked through the scene with the officer’s and they pointed out Items of evidence that were already located………….There were a set of keys containing a small flash light that was on, a cell phone, larger flashlight, two plastic bags,…………..”

     …a small flash light THAT WAS ON.

     The first flashlight people could see, almost INSTANTLY after the shot…… could well have been GZ’s little key-flashlight. He was seen walking up and down including in that direction. They only saw lights at first, not who was holding it/them. He may have dropped the big one (if that is really his). What was he looking for?

     Or if the small one was his only one, then whose is the big one? Mystery Mr.Flashlight? who had to put it down to do… what? to not look like he has one, when the cops arrive?

     Too many flashlights in this story, same as too many shirt colours.

     But neither have been proven to be GZ’s, it’s just being assumed.

     • Indeed. “What was he looking for”? I also want to know WHY he was witnessed walking towards the Tee AFTER the gunshot as reported by at least one of the witnesses. Was it to drop the keys and the flashlight. If so, this would be classic crime scene tampering, imo.

       • The keys and flashlight look staged to me. From memory, they look like they are exactly next to each other. How does that happen if keys are in pocket and flashlight in his hands? While watching the reenactment videos, my blood was boiling. This guy is lying through his teeth. Daddy Z was able to speak about what he said happened because he was sitting in the car during the reenactment with the police. Based on what was released in the Orlando Sent. article and what was said by Daddy Z – I see some huge changes.

         Further, it makes no sense for Trayvon to be able to sneak up on the confessed killer at the T. The confessed killer would have had a line of sight encompassing that area where Trayvon came from until he got to the other building on the other side closer to his car. You mean to tell me, Trayvon comes from where your line of sight is and from behind without you seeing him. Damn near impossible! Remember Trayvon had on khaki pants – not close to be camouflage.

         And as I keep saying, the confessed killer wants us to believe that all these damn near impossible things happened (multiple statistically improbable things) over and over in order to align with his story. If someone told you that the sun set in the east and pigs fly and Bigfoot existed and he was the only person to ever see it, would you believe him? The confessed killer’s story is similar to this with a few more improbable things thrown in. It just does not fit the evidence, logic, physics, common sense!

         • It probably would have taken several noiseless seconds for TM to reach him from the nearest possible hiding place. Very unlikely!

           We can only hope that TM left some evidence, that Ms Green knows about, that shows TM reached the house. And, of course, we’re waiting for those text messages, from both before and after the event, to come out. RZ is injecting himself, inappropriately into the police investigation. My guess is the Police have been told by the SP to humor him, since by what they have, he can only dig himself into a deeper and deeper hole.

           • Zimmerman shouldn’t have been more than a foot or two south of the T — max. Otherwise, he was (aggravated) stalking, harassing, and preying upon an unarmed neighbor returning home with some snacks after a 911 dispatcher had already told him to return to his vehicle.

             I *hear* there are going to be some bombshells with the text messages and emails. I don’t have a reference-able source but if what I’ve heard is true, holy shiat. This case is over.

             Yes, I hate comments like the above. I could be entirely wrong but I’ll take a date/time screenshot from my source and post it once Zimmerman’s communications are released.

       • I thought for a brief moment he thought of running away….. but dropping evidence fits a lot better. I’d also like to see the keys examined for blood. Specifically for “back of scalp” blood.

         I can’t think of a scenario where he’d need the keys in his hand, with the light on, unless that was his ONLY flashlight. Or good to turn a little torch on, to make totally sure its location gets noticed by the cops.

       • nlme,

         I can imagine there will be a bombshell, we all see that Zimmerman thought he was home free, there is no telling what was in his messages and emails. He is an arrogant man, he and his wife were gonna try and live high off the hog with the money given to him for killing young Martin. His father is a big part of the blame, had he done something other than cover for him then perhaps he would have straightened up but on the other hand, I wonder if George Zimmermans father covers for him because he feels things are not George’s fault. The more I replay videos of him and watch his mannerisms, I cant help but keep wondering what his deal is mentally. I said before I felt him to be schizophrenic or bipolar. We shall see because I am sure with him having such a big bag of medicine, there is something wrong. I can see Omara going for some type of mental defense. Thanks for that little info, I like to read your posts daily.

     • Aussi,

       Mr. Flashlight aka Wit #13 aka Jonathan Manalo has the first account of the small flash light. Listen to his interviews, he clearly states that he noticed the flash light near the poop station (per his own words). Mr. manalo walked from his house’s front door on 2861 RVC to the crime scene by the north sidewalk and the T. This is when he noticed it I guess because it was on.

       Concerning the ownership of the flashlights; I remember it was mentioned during he bond hearing that they were GZ’s. I kind of believe that this is something Police can easily verify. That said, it is right that I haven’t found in the evidence dump any statement of ownership concerning those items.

       • Tchoupi, I am taking with a huge grain of salt, anything in the police statements. There are a lot of assumptions in them, from day one. Like the balk statement that it was GZ screaming for help (which they also said to a witness at the scene already).

         I see no interviews where he says ‘yes they are mine”. Well okay the interviews with him were not released. But nothing from anyone to state whose they are.

         Begs the question, if he’s not following, if he’s innocently going back to his truck, why is he running around with two flashlights? They are not needed for checking house numbers, either, there’s porch lights over the numbers.

         And if they didn’t ask who’s lights they are, they didn’t ask why those lights were at the scene, either.

     • Aussie,

       It was dark, and several witnesses have stated it’s not unusual for people to be coming out with flashlights due to the poor lightening in some areas of the complex.

       Several of the witnesses even mention getting theirs. LEO’s as well as “wanna be cops” carry flashlights. Nothing unusual there.

       As far as the keyflashlight, perhaps it fell out of his pocket and got triggered on before or after it fell out, sort of like “pocket cellphone calls”.

       Maybe he realized he dropped it, and was going back to retrieve it. Perhaps they were dropped during the brief struggle?

       YOU STATED: “But neither have been proven to be GZ’s, it’s just being assumed.”

       MY REPLY: You’re right. We don’t have all the facts. Actually nothing has really been proven beyond somebody was murdered by somebody who claimed SYG/self defense, and whose plea is Not Guilty.

       I know it’s only speculation, but I’ll venture they’re both his flashlights. Just a hunch (but definitely NOT a Joe Oliver hunch, lol, ha, ha,!)

       T. G.

       • Do we know for sure where Zimmerman was apprehended? If near the T, this explains the flashlight being found there since Zimmerman was said to walk north after the shooting (for no good reason at all).

         Responding Officer (likely): “Freeze and put your hands up!”

         Zimmerman (possible): Drops anything in his hand including flashlight keys & hands go up.

       • @NLME

         Your “freeze” comment is the only other possibility I can think of, except.. Jon took a picture of all this before the police arrived. Zimmerman had time to “fix” the scene before the police said hands up or wha tever. At least that’s my opinion of the possibles.

       • Also note that the person claiming SYG, has no fear or aversion to lying in a court of law and while under his own oath not to do so! If so, we can guess that he also has absolutely no aversion to lying to anyone else at any time. Nor has he any concern that the conflicts in his various versions, will have any impact at all. He tells the police one thing, then tells his friends another, then tells his wife another version, then tells his father yet another version. Yet, he’s not the least concerned that, these people’s reliance on his separate versions, will cast them as dupes or fools or biased reporters.

         At what point does GZ so confound his own supporters, such that they feel they must either abandon him or take credibility hits themselves?

197. @Kandigurly – Oh, I believe all types of people are donating to GZ’s fund; I was bored last weekend and decided to take an internet stroll through the various pro-Zimmerman blogs, and most of them were rallying their commentors to donate, even if a $1, and people were responding, “I donated $20” “I donated $100”, etc.

198. Good reenactment videos:
     How? Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMZJOEYKc10&feature=relmfu
     How? Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IuFE5zd_2s&feature=relmfu
     How? Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujn7_mvdq00&feature=relmfu
     When? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFlo3Y12iPY&feature=relmfu
     Where? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoJAuH3A8T0&feature=relmfu
     Questions about Trayvon Martin Shooting Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh0ng55lWNE&feature=relmfu

     • Thanks princss6. One image is worth a thousand words…

       The image of two soldiers, 1 on top beating the other 1 at the bottom illustrates well a point we discussed already that is if someone is beating you up, you’ll spontaneously protect yourself with your harms/hands and therefore be hit on your harms & hands. GZ had no bruises/wounds to the harms and hands. What was he doing with them?

       Concerning the location, we know from the distribution on the ground of the evidences and the duration of the commotion heard by wit 6, 11, 17 & 20 that the confrontation was more dynamic than what GZ said happened. I mean, it had to be some chasing involved covering at least the between the “T” (location of the Honda keys) and the top 2 townhouses.

       • @tchoupi.caillou:

         Agreed – I think one reenactment actually shows the length of a minute that supposedly Trayvon was bashing his head. It takes a real sick puppy to kill a kid and then try to fashion it in a way such that he “had” to do it. The confessed killer is a real sick puppy. You see it in abusive personalities all the time. It is never their fault. It is always the fault of the victim. As the one video did show – based on the timeline – Trayvon would have had to attack Zimmerman while he was still on the phone with 911. Bloody unlikely!

199. @cherokee
     Omg! Wtf is wrong with people?!

     • Over at Huffington Post a lot of them are encouraging donations — on the grounds that there’ll be more for the Martin family to collect in a later civil case.

       Sadly it will all go on legal fees. Tho O’Mara did say $1000 a week was being put aside for living expenses. GZ’s I assume not O”mara’s 😉

       Looking at the newest photos. Almost impossible to put on that much weight in the CHEEKS in 4 weeks. Look at the profile pix. GZ looks like he’s turning moon-faced, as if on high doses of cortisone.

       • One of the reasons I can’t stand Huffington Post is that the original owner is a poser, similar to that gawd-awful Talk-Left website where the owner makes sure to post only right-wing, bigoteed views. They pose as left-leaning (democrats) while completely pushing a right agenda and mindset. Personally, I find them to be Fox-light (HP) and Rush Limbaugh-wannabe (Talk-Left). I have come to like the ViewFromLL2 website administered by a lawyer although the regulars are right-wing nitwits, Susan isn’t power tripping like the folks running HP and Talk-Left and allows freedom of speech/speculation.

         What disturbs me most about Talk-Left and HP is that they are successful at misleading the right by confirming the ir rights’ belief and fears that anything left politically means one must submit to a totally ridiculous set of rules. The rules are applied selectively to anybody they feel like applying them to — evidence be damned. Their totalitarian style of keeping order actually provides credence to the right-wing nutjobs that find education, logic and reason to be a character flaw and instead inlist imbeciles to moderate/enforce their totalitarian, bigot-slanted rules as long as they use big words.

         So sad.

         I am still convinced that this blog here run by NLME is the best blog I have found to view the evidence of this matter of Trayvon Martin, the evidence and the speculation.

         Someone characterized this blog as NLME’s living room. I agree. The atmosphere is a cozy conversation with respectful challenging twists and turns presented as food for thought.

         Thank you NLME, again!

200. Same questions as ours, only clearer in video format. I’ve tried to invite the guy over here………..

     • I had the same thought as well. One glaring issue, he places Trayvon’s body on the sidewalk when it was in the grass. I guess that it not too big of a deal since if the confessed killer’s story is true as he tells it, Trayvon’s body would have to be on the sidewalk. Uh oh! Oh damn, another lie!

201. Hi NLME, Princss6,

     I totally agree, and it is a concern of mine. However, there seems to have already been a pattern established early on here on this blog of posting an overabundance of personal identifying information about ALL of the witnesses. It didn’t just start with my post about Dee Dee’s statement yesterday. I have no idea if that’s really her, no more than I know if it’s really Austin in his video. I simply posted the video for the content of her statement, particularly, the statement she made about her hearing Trayvon say, “Get off, get off”.

     Whoever she is, either she, or someone with access to a picture of her, posted it in the public domain. Both the special prosecutor, the defense, including the judge on this case, have expressed concern for ALL of the witnesses identities for safety reasons, not just minor children.

     I’m sure you’ve noticed the full names and addresses of all the witnesses have been posted on this blog. Some have even posted the employment of some of the witnesses. Although I already had that information before I joined this blog, I have chosen not to post it.

     IMHO, it’s no different than what Spike Lee was accused of doing to the elderly couple. He was highly criticized by quite a few people, and rightly so, yet some commenting on this blog continue to do exactly the same thing, taking no thought whatsoever, about the potential harm to ALL witnesses.

     Should we be posting the names, addresses, and type of employment of the adult witnesses, including those who have not made their identities known, but whose personal identifying information is also being posted all over this blog? So far, to my knowledge, the SP has not released anybody’s identity, address, or type of employment, so why is it being posted if we’re truly concerned about the safety of ALL of the witnesses? Quite frankly, I see no need for it.

     NLME, Princess, while you both bring up a valid point, please forgive me if I think it’s very disengenous of you to say you’re concerned about Dee Dee’s safety, and not Austin’s or the other witnesses. It just seems as though a rather ambiguous message is being sent when there is already quite a bit of information posted on this blog about another minor child, i.e. address, statements and video of Austin.

     Do we really know for sure that it’s actually him in the video? Was his video released by the SP? Was his name and address released by the SP? Are we not just as concerned about his safety? Both Austin and Dee Dee’s statement’s were released in the media dump. I’m sure there’s a reasonable explanation.

     NLME, it really is up to you to set the guidelines, standards and the tone for your blog, for which everybody should be held accountable. I look forward to your reply, and very clear and specific instructions regarding what can and cannot be posted on your blog. Thanks a bunch.

     T. G.

     • I’m rather liberal with the content and comments on my blog.

       Things I don’t approve of: Anything that will have a cease and desist letter sent to my house. Ha!

       So, I’d rather not have content that includes photos of witnesses that are minors. If there’s a picture of Austin somewhere, please let me know.

       General guideline: If the MSM has reported something, I feel comfortable covering it. If it’s on YouTube (and doesn’t include a picture of a witness that’s a minor), I also feel comfortable approving the link.

       • NLME,

         “Things I don’t approve of: Anything that will have a cease and desist letter sent to my house. Ha!”

         *My sentiments exactly! ROTFLOL!!! That Adderall must be some really good stuff? (smile)
         ==========================================

         If you feel it’s best to remove the video I think you should. Actually, I’ve never posted a video before. I was thinking only the link would show up like the other links I’ve posted. In the meantime, I’ll keep searching for that exact statement without the video, if I come across one, I’ll definitely post. Maybe somebody here knows how to post just the link without showing the actual picture.

         I can hear someone screaming, “Get off, get off” on the 911 tape that has all those heart wrenching screams and yells on it (it’s the 3rd call in the 1st link below). I came across the alleged DD Youtube video statement AFTER I read the article about Alan Reich.

         So I decided to go back and listen to the 911 call to see if I could, in fact, hear “Get off, get off”, the words DD said she heard Trayvon say after he was knocked/pushed.

         Sure enough, I heard those frightening words. I also listened to Alan Reich’s assessment of the same call. I could clearly hear “I’m begging you” and “stop” on this same tape. There are other words I hear as well, and the FBI should be able to hear them too. I guess it’s a matter of determining who’s voice is screaming.

         Witness 911 Calls

         http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-grio/46771333/#46771333

         The Washington Post article on Alan Reich

         http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trayvon-martin-case-911-call-two-experts-reach-two-much-different-conclusions/2012/05/19/gIQAtuapbU_story.html

         T. G.

     • Hi Sleuth,

       I hold Austin in a separate category since he and his mother came forward of their own volition. In terms of the other witnesses, other than Austin they are adults. And none of them are being attacked as vehemently as DeeDee is in the media. Her parents are concerned for her safety.

       I’m not trying to change the patterns of those who post here but for reasons I can’t speak about, sadly, I have to limit my exposure here. Sigh. I really love all of the intelligent discussion and please do not take this personal at all. It will really pain, me, too! Keep up the good work all!

       • For what it’s worth, the link has been redacted. Point taken though — I’ll make sure to click through links before approving them going forward.

         Note: If not for the picture of DeeDee, I would have definitely approved the link.

       • I agree. The law says child witnesses are afforded different protections than adults. Unfortunately, the DeeDee posts seem to embed a picture of DeeDee when one merely posts a link. I know in my case, that’s what happened and I did not post the picture of a minor. Seems like someone created a technology “feature” that didn’t fully embrace the laws of the U.S. concerning minors.

     • Sleuth, on one level I agree. Though the cat is out of the bag on most of them, as they’ve been on TV etc.

       On another level, we need some way of identifying which statement came from which house, which later or TV witness was which original 911 call, what the relationships (and therefore possible contaminations) are between witnesses. etc. We could, I guess, give them code names. But the addresses are relevant to the investigation.

       If Austin went on TV, it’s fair to leave him in (there’s no address for him, either). If DeeDee had a Facebook, that’s her choice, but was not associated with this case, so we should leave her face out of it, especially as even the official evidence dump doesn’t name her.

       • @Theresa(riisey) –

         i didn’t see any indication of Trayvon Martin in the vids after he left the 7-11 either. The problem is, people see different things. Sometines it’s influenced by seeing what one wants to see and sometimes ish

         I agree with you wholeheartedly, btw. I don’t know why someone who is not a racist would frequent here, though, unless they are looking for answers. I could be wrong.

         I try my best not to put any ignorant bigots on defense — unless they piss me off on the wrong day (Ha)! This sometimes helps them realize their revered leaders and their sources present information to them to capitalize on the writer’s own bias by inflaming them instead of informing them .

         I frequent multiple sites about this matter for reasons similar to yours and others who care about children’s rights. One thing that crosses my mind (and keeps me from getting inflamed) whenever people try to paint Trayvon Martin as a hoodlum or an animal and point to his parents’ quest for justice as a money making “scheme” is the knowledge that MADD was formed because a woman lost her child to a repeat law-breaker.

         I believe the founder of MADD was a white woman who lost her white child (daughter) to someone the criminal justice system let go over and over again — very similar to George Zimmerman’s repeated ‘let-go’ type events as his crimes grew more and more egregious until they escalated into murder.

         IOW, I try not to sweat the small stuff (opinions of bigots and under-informed or uninformed researchers).

       • Hi Aussie,

         You make some excellent suggestions for alternative identifiers. I’m all about constructive solutions . Way to go! You and NLME seem to have at least that much in common (smile).

         YOU STATED: “On another level, we need some way of identifying which statement came from which house”.

         How about letters for the house location, i.e. A, B, C, D, etc.? Or create made up addresses? Or people can continue posting personal identfying information about the witnesses addresses.

         YOU STATED: “ We could, I guess, give them code names”.

         Well, how about the identifying numbers the SP already gave them. But code names sound mighty fine to me.

         Or people can continue posting personal identfying information about the witnesses full names.

         YOU STATED: “If Austin went on TV, it’s fair to leave him in (there’s no address for him, either)

         Well actually, Austin’s alleged picture, home address is posted several times on this blog, But more mind boggling, are the inaccurate, and blatant mis-representations of what he and his sister actually stated to the dispatcher, and his subsequent statements to the police detective that commenters posting.

         YOU STATED: “If DeeDee had a Facebook, that’s her choice, but was not associated with this case, so we should leave her face out of it, especially as even the official evidence dump doesn’t name her”.

         But how do you really just “keep her face out of it” when the alleged photo of “DD” is floating all across the web? I agree, “DD’s” face was not included in the official evidence dump, nor was Austin’s name, address or picture included in it.

         I won’t pretend to know anything about “DD’s” Facebook account, or whether or not she has one; or in the event she does, whether or not she chose to post anything about her participation as a witness in this case on it.

         There are some sources that say she does have a FB account under her real name, and has/was posting about Trayvon’s murder and the case. If that is true, anything she placed on FB becomes public domain, although I do acknowledge and accept NLME’s position on this topic. Afterall, it is his blog, and he does have the right to determine what gets posted on it. Definitely won’t begrudge him that, and certainly no skin off my back.

         Mark Zuckerberg, creator and owner of FB, has done a wonderful job being up front and honest about the risk involved in joining FB, and placing pictures and personal information on those pages. According to Zuckerberg, FB doesn’t allow minors to join FB until they reach the age of 18, or 17 ½.

         Well, I know for a fact children or their parents have ways of working around that. A couple of my grandchildren have FB pages, and they are under 18, and are no ways near meeting the age requirements for joining FB (smh).

         Keep in mind, “DD” is not her real name, it was simply a “code name” assigned to her when she first gave her public statement to ABC. Once she became an official witness, and for the purposes of the investigation, she is now being identified as witness #8.

         I just want to be clear, my point was I felt Austin’s safety, as well as the safety of adult witnesses was just as important as “DD’s”. Early on in the investigation, there were adult witnesses who expressed concern for their safety.

         YOU STATED: “Though the cat is out of the bag on most of them, as they’ve been on TV etc. “

         Yes, you’re absolutely right, some have. I just don’t recall any of them giving out their addresses or current place of employment. Yes, I’m quite aware of the “FORMER teacher”(smile). Well, as things are looking, the witnesses names will eventually made public, based on Florida law.

         On a final note, in addition to the safety concerns for ALL of the witnesses, adult and children, there are also legal ramifications to be considered as well. The confessed murderer is not the only person who has to deal with the consequences of his actions. We all do. With rights come responsibility, and sometimes consequences, jmho.

         Aussie, thank you for the mature and respectful manner in which you responded to my very innocent oversight (the Youtube video).

         T. G.

         • Austin can be seen via a link on BccList? Are they MSM related links? If not, I’ll yank the links showing his image.

       • Hi Aussie,

         Ooops! I forgot to add.

         Regardless of what we decide to do in terms of using alternative identifiers, I think we both know Judge Lester as the final word on what will eventually get released in terms of the witnesses.

         “This week, Ponce filed responses to the prosecution and defense positions, addressing them point by point.

         “The broad secrecy the state seeks … is not supported by statute, constitution or case law, and it certainly cannot be justified in this prosecution,” he said.

         Ponce argued that civilian witnesses’ names and addresses cannot be sealed under Florida’s public records law, because they would not be “defamatory” or “jeopardize the safety” of a witness. He said the state hasn’t proven anyone is in jeopardy. The contested cell phone records may be reviewed and, if need be, have parts redacted, but they shouldn’t be withheld entirely, he said.

         Ponce said Zimmerman’s statements to police should not be treated as “confessions,” which would not be made public before trial.

         The judge expressed sympathy for the prosecution and defense attorneys but said, “The law is against us.” He noted that the law in Florida “favors full, complete, open disclosure.”

         Lester said he would review the discovery request and release material “in a redacted fashion.”

         http://www.theskanner.com/article/Trayvon-Martin-Update-Judge-Revokes-Zimmermans-Bond-2012-06-02

         T. G.

       • @Sleuth –

         ” He said the state hasn’t proven anyone is in jeopardy.”

         This is why I have a problem with Zimmerman getting special treatment while in jail and while on bond.

       • NLME,

         “No Longer Mass Emailing” Says:

         June 7, 2012 at 4:09 pm
         Austin can be seen via a link on BccList? Are they MSM related links? If not, I’ll yank the links showing his image.
         =========================================

         MY REPLY:

         Yes, witness #14 can be seen, at least twice. One is post #124.

         Again, let me just be clear. My post to you, princss6, and aussie had absolutely nothing to do with removing pictures, videos, names, addresses, places of employment, etc.

         I was simply pointing out to princss6 that I thought Austin’s safety and mental well being was just as important as “DD’s”. Especially since I had not read or seen anything to indicate “DD” had been threatened by anybody.

         Please keep in mind, these are 2 children whom the State of Florida will need to rely on to prove their case. Only those directly invovled with the case can determine just how important (or unimportant) their testimony is. What a heavy burden for any child to have to carry.

         They certainly aren’t enemies of the state. I just hope and pray that nothing jeopardizes their testimonies or safety. I also expect, hope and pray all measures are taken to reduce any unnecessary exposure of these children.

         On the otherhand, (paraphrasing here) I did read a story where witness #14’s mother stated he was traumatized by the events of the murder. His mother stated he was dealing with a lot of guilt, and her children were afraid to come outside to play as a result.

         She also stated his teacher informed her he had started misbehaving in school, getting into fights, and his grades started falling. Witness #14 even agreed with his teacher’s assessment.

         He also stated he was scared of being profiled, and also feeling a lot of guilt for not going back to help the person who was yelling for help whom he stated he believed was Trayvon.

         NLME, as I’ve said before, it’s your responsibility, and up to you to decide what get’s posted, and what gets deleted to/from your blog. I have no problem with that.

         I’m only morally and legally responsible for what I post, and not what you or others post to your blog. I have no desire to be where the confessed murderer is currently residing, ever. I’ve still got a whole lot of good living to do, children and grandbabies to love and enjoy, and will do so as a free person.

         Thanks for having my back with that photo with the video. You probably saved me from some very needless trouble. I simply thought only the link would show.

         I’m not obssessed with pictures of folks I don’t know, unless there’s something remarkable or exceptional about them. You know, like a man with 7 heads, a woman with 10 arms, dog with a head like a man/woman. Oh, and the confessed murderer’s ever changing photos and mugshots (lol! ha! ha!).

         T. G.

         • Thank you! No, seriously — this was probably annoying to find. So, thank you!

           But, it was a news interview and in the public domain so I’ll leave the link as is. In fact, now that Austin’s image has been put out in the public domain, I’ll probably leave other links showing him in tact.

           If an image of DD (DeeDee, Dee Dee, etc.) and/or interview was put in the public domain, I’ll “fix” the link you posted as well.

       • CommonSenseForChange Says:

         June 7, 2012 at 7:03 pm
         @Sleuth –

         ” He said the state hasn’t proven anyone is in jeopardy.”

         This is why I have a problem with Zimmerman getting special treatment while in jail and while on bond.
         ====================================

         MY REPLY:

         Hi CommonSenseForChange,

         I’ve been meaning to tell you I just love your user name. Based on your intelligent, common sense approach reflected in your posts, it fits you well.

         I think Ponce was referring to the witnesses and other evidence, though I might have misunderstood what he was saying. I’ve not read or heard anything about any witnesses being threatened.

         To be frank, I’m having a hard time knowing what to believe in terms of comments and news reports about witnesses, and people not related to the case being threatened.

         O’Mara and the Zimmerman clan are the only ones going around perpetuating a lie about them, and now him, being threatened. O’Mara claims someone called his office on 5/14/2012, from a blocked number and threated him. This was around the time the media dump was getting ready to be released, how convenient.

         Shellie even admitted during the bond hearing that although they received mail, they never received any threats, nor did they call the police to report any. Probably the only truthful statement they made in court. Even Gladys and Robert, Sr. lied. I hope the State calls out all of the lies they told during the bond hearing.

         I agree with you about the confessed murderer. It must be literally killing him not to have access to the internet and tv so he can continue following blogs and news stories to see what others are saying about him. But I’m sure his family and friends are all over these blogs posting and stirring up strife.

         He’s already made 151 calls between April 12 and April 22. Who in the world could he possibly be talking to, besides his lawyer? Seems like he still haven’t learned his lesson.

         Just can’t believe O’Mara would continue to show such contempt for the courts/the judge by even thinking his client deserves another bond hearing. He filed a motion for another bond hearing which is set for June 29th.

         O’Mara claims he receved threats-video

         http://www.wesh.com/Zimmerman-s-Attorney-Threatened-OPD-Says/-/11788876/14349768/-/sakwsgz/-/index.html

         A Man Assigned The Confessed Murderer’s Old Cellphone Number Receives Threatening Calls

         http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/18735592/orlando-man-given-george-zimmermans-old-cell-phone-number-bombarded-with-death-threats

         151 Jail Calls Made

         http://www.localnews8.com/news/Attorney-Zimmerman-s-bail-request-delayed/-/308662/14586454/-/13powp1z/-/index.html

         T. G.

     • Hello Princss6,

       As I mentioned to NLME, I thought ONLY the link would appear. My intent was to post a link that would lead to the contents of her statement, nothing more. I am well aware of videos and interviews regarding both of the minors in this case. I’ve been following this case very, very closely from day one, (if you only knew just how close, smile).

       “DD’s” original statement that her mother apparently allowed Mr. Crump to record and play to the public was eventually placed it into the public domain. Actually, “DD” is simply a name assigned to her, she is now referred to as witness #8. To my knowledge her real name has not been made public.

       I respect your opinion, however my position regarding Austin will remain the same regardless of what his mother decides for him. It is strictly the parents decision to make for their children, and all that goes with the territory of becoming a witness.

       I don’t hold Austin or any of the other witnesses in “separate categories”, they’re ALL witnesses. Not intending to sound cold or uncaring, because nothing could be further from the truth, however, ALL witnesses put themselves in potential jeopardy when they come forward. And I hope and pray that nothing bad happens to any of them.

       BOTH of the parents of these minor children allowed their statements to be heard by the public. Both parents retained attorneys. If that’s not Trayvon’s female friend’s picture, then it is the responsibility of her mother and attorney to take steps to correct it, pretty much like Trayvon’s parents and family attorney’s did when fake pictures of him starting floating around on the internet.

       T. G.

       • Hi Princss6,

         I’m all too familiar with the harmful affects of being a witness can bring. I’ve been called as a juror and witness several times in my lifetime, and served as a juror in several civil cases, 2 murder trials, one in which a high ranking LEO was the defendant, and on a GJ. Several members of my family have done the same.

         My family was nearly devastated when information such as addresses, telephone numbers, jobs, school, church, etc. regarding my family (extended family included) was plastered all over newspapers (one of the largest cities in the U.S.). And this was long before any of us ever heard of something called the internet, Youtube, Facebook, etc.

         As a result of my family’s personal information being reported in the print media (without our knowledge or permission), non-stop telephone calls, media outside on the lawn, my father suffered a massive heart attack, and died 3 weeks later. I won’t get into all of the details, but believe me when I say, posting private information about private citizens just because you can, is not something to take lightly. It can have a lasting, devastating impact on families.

         Whether you want to accept it or not, what affects the adults, definitely affects the children. Some of the adult witnesses have children, and if they are worried and scared you can count on their children being affected. Some adult witnesses have expressed concerns for their personal safety. One of these adult witnesses stated their child was playing in the same area just moments earlier where Trayvon was murdered. The safety of the adult witnesses is just as important, at least the SP, defense, and Judge Lester seem to think so, and have expressed concern.

         So, I’ve made a personal committment NOT to post ANYTHING personal about ANY of the witnesses, child or adult, such as full names, addresses, place of employment, school, etc. The SP has identified ALL of the witnesses, children and adults, by a number, and for good reasons, and those are the identifiers I will be using for now on.

         Princss6, you’ve added meaningful and insightful discussion to this tragic loss of an innocent, unarmed child. This case has affected many of us in ways we never imagined, and I wanted you to know I hear you, I just happen to disagree with you when you say Austin’s safety and welfare IS NOT as important as “DD’s”. They are equally as important, again, jmho.

         T. G.

       • I’ll definitely use the witness statements (including audio) of minors! I draw a line at pics though (until they’re in the public domain).

     • CommonSenseForChange Says:

       June 6, 2012 at 5:36 pm
       I agree. The law says child witnesses are afforded different protections than adults. Unfortunately, the DeeDee posts seem to embed a picture of DeeDee when one merely posts a link. I know in my case, that’s what happened and I did not post the picture of a minor. Seems like someone created a technology “feature” that didn’t fully embrace the laws of the U.S. concerning minors.
       =====================================

       MY REPLY:

       CommonSenseForChange,

       You hit that dead on the nail! But is anybody really acknowledging and enforcing those laws? I’m so fed up with politicians pretending they give a rats butt about our children.

       And how is it we have repeat offenders doing unspeakable things to our Nation’s children? How many times do they get to do these reprehensible before they’re finally stopped? Child Predator Laws don’t seem to be working.

       Former Florida State Representative Dennis Baxley, the author of the SYG law, and the co-author, claim the intent of the SYG law was to give women and children in particular, more protection of this law. Bullcrap!!! What protection? So far, it hasn’t worked in the case of Trayvon Martin. I’m certainly hoping and praying it will though.

       Numerous innocent children are caught up in the crossfire of gun shoot outs have been killed by defendants claiming and winning their claims of SYG.

       IMHO, no defendant should have the right to claim SYG, and should be denied bond anytime a child/children, or innocent bystanders are killed simply because they were on “their ground”, whether laying in their yard, sitting in a car, or coming from 7-11 after buying Skittles and Ice Tea. And we all know about Marissa Alexander’s very sad and unfortunate ruling.

       This freaking law needs to been repealed.

       http://video.msnbc.msn.com/newsnation/46811800/#46811800

       T. G.

202. I’m sure you’ll all be shocked, SHOCKED!, but it seems the discovery documents have caught Frank Taaffe in a fib:

     Where’s the blood? — It looks like Frank Taffe fibbed

203. Assumption: Trayvon Martin made it to his back yard area/back porch and was just chilling on the phone with DeeDee since he had “lost the guy”.

     Wild Speculation below:

     Suppose Zimmerman went past the T-spot over to Retreat View Circle and walked towards the back gate. Once he reached the intersection near the back gate, he could take the doggie path sidewalk back to his car instead of walking over to Twin Trees heading back towards his car, right? This would force an unexpected encounter upon Trayvon Martin hanging out in the back part of his own residence (albeit, temporary residence). If so, George would come have confronted Trayvon Martin at or near his back porch and would have forced Trayvon Martin to get away from him (again!) by causing Trayvon Martin to head down the path (south to north) towards the T-spot where he ended up being murdered?

     Zimmerman would probably have overheard Trayvon Martin on the phone with DeeDee if Zimmerman approached from around the corner of the houses facing the street near the back gate.

     OR, Zimmerman could have done exactly the same thing heading down Twin Trees towards the back gate. The streets run parallel to each other with the Tee-spot down the middle and access to the T-spot from either street would put Trayvon Martin in a cornered position forcing him to run/walk back down the path north.

     • Indeed:

       

       • It’s raining, you know where you live, you know the route you are taking is going to take you past the house and you’re going to have to back track a few steps. Why do you take that kind of route? You take the longer route because it offers a viewing advantage over the other route. It is also better lit than the back walkway. There are more chances that traffic will intervene, making the route feel more public, which is preferable in a time of stress.

         Again, it’s raining, GZ has a clear view down a long distance. Why does he not follow in his truck? But wait, he’s waited up until TM has left his view, that means he has to act quick, if he’s to catch him anywhere. Since, he’d have to theorize that by the time he even ran back to the end of TTL, TM could either enter a house, hide somewhere, or even go out the back gate.
         Since, it would appear that TM has too many options, GZ has no other choice but to put his car in gear and race south on TTL. He gets out of his car and runs the last several yards, so he’s out of breath. GZ impresses as having a sedentary lifestyle, so no 100 yard dash for him. The call to his wife, seems to me, to be a signal for his wife to come look for his car and pick it up really quick.

         I note his truck isn’t picked up by the cameras, hardly surprising for the NW Captain, he’d have seen the monitors already, and known where the blind spots were. His car could have been picked up by his wife from any position.
         The only thing that may trip him up is, if his phone has geo tagging of sorts.
         The cell service has to know where the phone is and how it’s moving to provide continuous service, I don’t know if that information, location between towers is saved or discarded. But, if it’s saved, the FBI has it, then GZ is toast! That would explain them letting RZ inside, to watch him more closely.
         If he has tried to influence anyone, I’m sure the FBI has already gotten them to talk.

         Did his wife say when and where she picked up the car from, BEFORE she got to talk to GZ?

         GZ seems to catch up to TM, before TM can recover from his run. GZ is breathless as well. That, alone, is pretty much enough evidence of a chase, that was not supposed to have occurred at all in GZ’s story. Since, two people walking are not out of breath by anyone’s stretch of imagination.

         But TM has less than 30 yards to cover, when GZ has 100 yards to cover. Only the vehicle can make the match come together.

         Also, now I’m more sure that TM did something while at the house, that Ms Green knows about, that means to her he was there. Like, maybe she doesn’t allow him to wear that button inside the house? He’d take it off at the back door and put it in his pocket. Something like that.

     • I’ve favoured the Twin Trees route from very early on. But this way might work just as well. GZ might actually go down the inner path to the first unpaved cut-through towards RVC, go out there to check TM didn’t run through to there. The continue down RVC and turn back towards Twin Trees. And suddenly spot TM near his own porch.

       Either way. They did not meet up AT THE T junction and then somehow end up going south to have the fight 4 houses down. The shadow and the arguments were heard to be moving south to north. Meeting at the T would involve GZ hanging around the corner of RVC and the top path for nearly 2 minutes (while the tape indicates he was still moving, though not running).

       It would also involve TM hanging about waiting to attack him, despite not having any idea where he may have gone. And of course people lying in wait to do an attack DO keep chatting away to their girlfriends. They’d never say I’m busy I’ll call you later.

       Actually, the single one fact that TM was ON THE PHONE proves he didn’t attack GZ. Never mind what DeeDee heard. Never mind what she says she heard. Never mind if it’s all coached and untrue. The phone company records show he was ON THE CALL. Nobody stands around yapping on the phone when a fight they are premeditating is about to start any moment.

       • I’ve quite enjoyed reading everyone’s perspective as it relates to the path either may have taken. My question though, If the encounter happened at/near Ms Green’s home, wouldn’t others closer to that end have heard something? I can’t imagine either of them walking silently back towards the T and no words between the two until they end up right where the ‘ear witnesses’ could hear the verbal, physical, confrontation and then the shooting.

         • If there are witnesses near Brandy Green’s house, we haven’t heard from them yet. I expect we will – as applicable – but haven’t yet since witnesses at the southern end of the path wouldn’t have called 911 or been near the scene after the shooting.

           Meaning, all the witnesses we’ve heard from so far reside at the northern part of the path, correct?

       • I don’t know what it is…something about the scenario of them meeting up at the end closest to Green residence or Trayvon was at the house…but somehow end up back toward the ‘T’?!

         I’m still trying picture it in my head…because Dee Dee doesn’t give any indication of Trayvon running away from GZ when they speak, just hears shoving sound and phone falls to grass. We know that by then, they’re near where witnesses hear verbal/physical confrontation. We also can conclude that he didn’t have the gun out at that moment either, as it’s highly unlikely Travyon wouldn’t have said so. So, even if they both run south toward back entrance, via TT or RVC route, each claiming to have lost sight of the either, yet, end up meeting face to face somewhere in the middle?!

         Ok, so let’s say we have GZ catching up to, or cutting Trayvon off at the path before he reaches home…they’re now face to face, Trayvon ask GZ why he’s following, but continues walking few paces back toward the T(Dee Dee says GZ sounds winded). She hears GZ angrily ask, what he’s doing around here (think this may be about the time others start to hear commotion)…GZ then shoves or grabs hold of Trayvon, phone falls to grass…Dee Dee hears Trayvon saying, “Get off, Get off”, phone cuts off. I think this is where he first starts to scream for help. Remember, John’s wife says she could hear what sounded like someone yelling help but it was further away. Verbal back and forth continues, then a lull…Is it likely that, Trayvon, in an attempt to free himself from GZ, swings the bag with tea in it and strikes GZ on the nose?…the scuffle on the ground begins, and desperate cries for help are heard. Did GZ pull the gun before they fell on the ground, and that’s why Trayvon was pinning him? Based on autopsy, it’s believed that he still could have been holding on to him when he shot him.

         My apologies if this has already been discussed and discounted as not being plausible. 😉

       • @Tina –

         Maybe, maybe not. If the exchange of words were after the chase, few would hear it. I’m hopeful somebody heard or saw something near Brandy Green’s house. I don’t think the police asked that far up the streets, though, since they seemed to have relied on Zimmerman’s story at first.

       • @Tina –

         Wonder if there is evidence of the back gate showing exits from the community? If exits are show, I really wouldn’t be surprised to see George walking near it.

204. Aussie asks: “Tchoupi: Do they show RAIN??”

     Answer: we can’t really see what going on outside from the videos.
     What we know is that TM comes in and leaves with his hoodie on.
     We also know that the 3 guys come in with their heads well covered. Actually, one of the guys has his head fully wrapped which made me laugh given that some in the media implied that the hoodie made TM suspicious.

     It looks like the 3 guys know they are going to be filmed and they don’t want to be identified. It had credence to the idea that they were buying for TM. However, the video shows nothing from outside except for TM’s shadow coming in and leaving right at the moment the 3 guys exit the 7-11.

     To make it short, I have no clue if it was raining at 6:30pm. However, there is no clear indication that the 3 guys were wet coming in.

     • Correct me if I’m wrong but the 7-11 clerk asks the 3 guys about the weather and they said it was horrible outside.

       Has everyone seen the 7-11 footage with audio? If not, I’ll try to find the clip on YouTube. You can’t hear much but you can hear small talk about the crappy weather.

       • The video I saw had no sound. If you get one with sound, just post it.
         I’m impressed that 7-11 not only films you but also records you.

         • Weather is discussed around the 6:26 mark here…

           I just rewatched this video for the first time in awhile. Not that it gives Zimmerman an excuse to murder Trayvon but those kids may have bought him a cigar.

           Thanks to the description and comment section of the YouTube video, it looks like Trayvon tries to buy a “Black” around the 3:02 mark (but gets denied) and then you see him heading east at the 9:14 mark as the kids are leaving the store.

           I wonder if Brandy found Trayvon’s partially smoked cigar on the porch. Hmmmmm

       • Thanks NMLE.
         The 3x guys may have bought TM a cigar, indeed. That would explain, at least partially, why he spent time at the mailboxes.
         If TM really took off at 6:30, he must have been there by 6:45, and GZ called at 7:09. That makes 24min staying at the mailboxes.
         As TM stayed at the mailboxes, he increased significantly the odds of being seen by GZ. I mean, the odds that TM & GZ passed each other in the complex are slim, if both were moving toward there respective destinations. With TM staying near the entrance for 24min, he made it very likely that GZ noticed him on his way to the store and decided to park on TTL to keep an eye on his activities.
         DeeDee says that a couple of minutes after she called back (6:54) TM noticed GZ in his truck. That would mean that GZ may have been parked watching TM for about 10min before calling SPD.
         Guys you’ve been warned: Smoking kills.

       • its the first time i have seen this…but if that was martin walking past the window then it must have been a very quick transaction since he was walking past the window before they had even left the store. Doesn’t matter much though because a cigar is not justification to be shot.

       • @nmle

         even if they did purchase for him…weed wasn’t found on him, not to mention the walk home from store would be most opportune time to light up, and the amount in his system didn’t indicate he’d smoked recently. He could’ve been wanting it for later – remember, they assumed he’d gone to the movies with a cousin…it’s reasonable to believe he might have wanted to smoke then.

         • Agreed.

           EVEN if Trayvon was high as a kite — he wasn’t per the autopsy — there’s no reason for Zimmerman to stalk, harass, and prey upon his unarmed neighbor.

           • Do we really learn that much from the video? At nabe stores, we often see people we know or are acquainted with. Some times we speak, sometimes we just nod an acknowledgement. Sometimes they’re in a hurry, they may make a mention of a topic of mutual interest, ask you to wait a second while they complete their quick errand. It’s just unimportant small talk, but you wait anyway because it’s the friendly thing to do. So they come out, ask if you’ve got any smoke? No! Wanna come over? Can’t! Brag: “I’ve got 20 on…”

             In any event TM is at that age when he wants to be cool with other people his age. So, him waiting for them to come out, exchange some words, doesn’t even have to mean that he knows them. Even adults don’t have to know each other to talk sports impromptu with strangers. Teens have much more in common to talk about, music, sports, schools, etc., so there’s just no way to know what was up there.

           • Now that I think about it, what if they brought a cigar for TM at the store? It didn’t show up in his possessions Maybe it fell out of his pocket on the porch? Of maybe he hid it there while he had time, so as not to bring it into the house? If Ms Green then knew of TM’s little hiding place, then pow, zip, zam, zowie! GZ is toast!

             • That’s what I was thinking. Meaning, for example, there’s no way Brandy and Tracy would allow Trayvon to smoke a Black and Mild on the back porch but maybe a cigar was left behind. Hmmmmm.

             • I’m thinking, if he had one, he’d have had to try to hide it, before he went into the house. That might explain the delay GZ needed to catch up with him before he could get inside. They need to ask the clerk what those other guys purchased.

             • How about this? Those 3 wired kids dealt Trayvon some pot before going into 7/11. He walked home while smoking a cigar, gets chased, dropped bag of weed off on porch, and ran away from Zimmerman to the North. Hmmmm.

             • I think it was raining so he was moving too fast to avoid it, no time to smoke anything. Besides, a recent smoke would have shown up in his blood. Nothing smoked in the last few weeks. But yes, he could have brought some for later on, he’d probably have hidden it outside the house, after all, it wasn’t his house so he could not know what might go on there.

               What I used to do was pull down a branch of a tall hedge or a high tree branch, tied a few dollars in green cloth or wrap cloth in dried leaves, tie to branch and let go. It could stay there for months without being discovered. Lol.

     • Weather records for the station closest to The Retreat (http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KFLSANFO10&month=2&day=26&year=2012) show that it began to drizzle at 6:37 (.02in) gradually increasing in intensity until 7:18 (.09in) holding there until 7:33, and gradually decreasing to zero by 8:19. What little wind there was, was coming from the East, so the 7-11 would not have been likely to receive precipitation before the Ravena Park station. So, it’s very likely the 7-11 was dry at 6:30, but starting to get wet around 6:45.

       • Good link whonoze. It is one more correlation of DeeDee’s account.
         Apparently, TM went to 7-11 after the rain stopped and got caught in it while he was walking back.

     • We see someones shadow exiting to the right. If it was Trayvon he could have very well been talking to someone outside, I just don’t see the exchange that other people see that made it look like those young men bought Martin a cigar? If that in fact was Martin and they bought the cigar for him, it would equate to the same as a teen smoking cigarettes. This was only released to show his character because they keep wanting to prove that Martin was a thug, therefore he smoked, sold drugs, etc, it definitely wasn’t released to prove Martins anything else, and certainly to help prove Zimmermans case. Never mind the toxicology report and the experts who said he most likely smoked marijuana several days to weeks prior, if he had took the tobacco out and filled it with weed then he would have had high thc levels. I know plenty of people who would actually smoke the cigar and not put weed in it, every one with a black and mild is not a pot smoker, some do enjoy a cigar. People are saying that he sold the 3 boys some weed. everybody that we seen coming in and out of that store had something to protect their heads on. The woman had he hoodie down because she was driving. The boys including Martin were on foot. I don’t believe any of their hoodies would have been up had it been a bright sunny day or humid hot night without rain.

       • I don’t think the toxicology report has been released. That would give the concentrations in the blood stream. The blood results that were accessed so quickly were on the blood in TM’s chest from the injury.

         • Even if the toxicology reports show weed, sizzrup, and sprinkle in some crack for the racially motivated trifecta, it doesn’t change the fact that Zimmerman shouldn’t have stalked, harassed, and preyed upon his unarmed neighbor.

       • “The boys including Martin were on foot.”

         I believe the three boys had a car. You can see them pull in just as TM left the store. TM may have talked to one of the boys because you can see him leave the store a little before the other two and then shortly after you see what may be TM walk past the window. After the other two boys walked out you can see the car leave in the same direction as TM walked.It wouldn’t surprise me if the three boys pulled over somewhere between the store and the complex to talk with TM about something or just shoot the $### for a bit like kids do and that could be why TM hung up on DeeDee.( if I remember right he hung up about that time, not sure) It also wouldn’t surprise me if GZ saw TM standing outside the car having a conversation with the three boys.GZ would think, must be up to no good. It couldn’t be that he was just making new friends.Naa.

         Just a guess.

205. Concerning the flashlights…

     princss6 wrote that the keys and flashlight at the same spot suggested a setup. I just want to clarify on the fact that the smaller grey flashlight is actually chained to the Honda keys.

     It makes sense to me that GZ left his truck with his car keys. There is no other car keys listed in the evidence dump. So, I can safely suppose that those found on the ground are his.

     Moreover, I’m pretty sure that at the bond hearing, the prosecution pointed to GZ’s 2 flashlights as an evidence that GZ wanted to chase TM in the dark when he left his truck. I will have to review the bond hearing again. if anyone has an active link to it that may help.

     The smaller flashlight was on and on the ground ~40ft away from TM’s body. The bigger flashlight was off and on the ground next to TM’s body. This suggests GZ used the smaller flashlight rather than the bigger one. I believe that GZ, like most people, don’t go shopping with a big flashlight in his jacket. So, I guess, he grabbed it when exiting his truck. If, in the end, he used the smaller flashlight, it might be that the bigger one was not turning on properly (out of battery? poor contact?). That could explain the tapping noise we can hear in the 911 call. I mean GZ just tried to turn it on by tapping on it.

     This is a simpler theory than having GZ setting up the crime scene. Did he have the time to think about a scenario where the keys dropped at the T would help him in his self-defense claim and to execute that plan? I don’t think so. Think about it; the teacher (wit #18) is just feets away from him watching everything from her bedroom upstairs. Selma & Mary were out within seconds and could see him straddling TM’s body. They even interacted with him while he was still on top of TM. Then, GZ had just started pacing to/from TM’s body that comes Manalo (Wit #13). And Manalo noticed the small flashlight at the T already.

     GZ was for sure thinking hard on how he would get away from that mess. I’m sure about that. But, the fact that he couldn’t give 5 self-consistent statements to his interrogators shows that days after the events, he was still thinking about it. So, tempering with evidences beyond maybe moving TM’s body looks hard to believe.

     Finally, how does the keys at the T could really help GZ? From what we know GZ claimed, either he was in his truck and TM came to him, or he was ambushed while walking back to his truck. The keys at the T doesn’t help explaining how both of them ended up 40ft from the T down the sidewalk in either case.

     • Per the door chime (comment below), Zimmerman was definitely driving a Honda (& I’m guessing it was a Ridgeline):

       Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman Evidence and Court Proceedings

     • The key at the T looks like that is where the fight started maybe. Walking back along the top path, ambushed from “behind left” ie off the long path. Not knocked down immediately of course, he can’t claim that now, with where they ended up.

       So okay, how does the key at the T help anybody? what is the key doing there anyway?

       • Aussie,

         the way I see it is that the keys being 40ft apart from the rest shows that the area of struggle is at least 40ft long.
         It helps TM’s case because it shows GZ lies as his statements can’t explain this spread in space.
         We also know from witnesses such as the teacher (w18) that the struggle as a significant spread in time that is not taken into account by GZ.
         So, the crime scene shows that the interaction between the 2 men was way more dynamic than what GZ stated.

       • @aussie –

         That’s exactly what I’m reading/seeing/hearing. At one time, we were all speculating that if we could find the spot where the headphones fell, we could surmise the location the altercation likely started.

         I adopted that particular theory presented on this blog a long time ago and I still think that is what happened. I think after Zimmerman first chased Trayvon Martin from near his back yard, the actual physical part broke out where those headphones fell. I also think the keys thing was staged/evidence tampering and I can think of at least TWO witnesses that seem to confirm that Zimmerman walked down to that spot where the keys attached to the small flashlight were found.

         1) Teacher was able to see George Zimmerman more clearly as he walked towards her home (which I think is near the T) I think she may live on the north part of RVC with her house perhaps facing the front of the entry wall for the community. This would put her rear windows looking directly at the T, but from a different angle than Jon’s.

         2) Jon (picture taker) who took 2 other pics besides the bloody head. One of those pics taken by Jon which he deleted from his phone, but saved on his computer before turning over to the state shows the flashlight on the ground after he saw Zimmerman walk towards the T. This all recorded in his second interview.

         Not sure where Selma and her roommate saw Zimmerman pacing up and down the area, but it could also mean they saw Zimmerman pacing towards the T and back down to the body.

       • @tchoupi –

         I hear what you’re saying.

         “the way I see it is that the keys being 40ft apart from the rest shows that the area of struggle is at least 40ft long. It helps TM’s case because it shows GZ lies as his statements can’t explain this spread in space.”

         I think Zimmerman and O’Mara will figure out something to “explain away” George Zimmerman getting up from his “sucker punch from the back left” which incredibly hit him straight in the nose before he miraculously “scooted himself away from the concrete” and moving towards John’s grassy backyard. The jury pool may be find “reasonable doubt” if their selection pool is from an area that just doesn’t get that it’s wrong to profile.

         OTOH, if Jon and the teacher and who knows who else saw Zimmerman walking towards where the flashlight was found, that’s yet another piece of his story he needs to explain.

         In other words, if the physical part of the confrontation took place behind John’s house first and migrated towards the T, George Zimmerman’s story is exposed as a complete and total LIE. He would in that case, have every motivation to alter the span of the crime scene evidence towards the story he began telling to potential witnesses mere seconds after the crime.

         Perhaps its a matter of “thinking on one’s feet” without “thinking it through”.

       • @Aussie –

         It’s supposed to indicate that the fight started there. I doubt that, though.

     • I don’t know if i told you NMLE but your investigation of car chime really really impressed me.

       • Thank you! I’m not trying to be overdrammatic but it was exhaustive. I watched probably 100 (mostly REALLY bad) clips of all sorts of vehicles and this one was found near the end of my search.

         You need a perfect storm to get a chime matching the one heard in Zimmerman’s 911 call. Door open, key not in the ignition yet, and something else.

         The Ridgeline in this video appears to have the lights off and windows rolled up. I wish I could figure out what else was needed to make the matching chime – the owner’s manual and Honda forums don’t really help – but I digress.

         • Unless, of course, the Ridgeline makes that noise whenever a door is ajar. But…

           A) That seems like it would be SUPER annoying to owners and

           B) I don’t remember hearing door ajar noises with other Ridgeline clips.

       • That IS impressive.

         GZ refers to his vehicle as a truck. There has been some reference to his “SUV.” So it might be a Honda Pilot. Same chime and key.

         FWIW.

206. I believe the prosecution has a good shot at winning this case in big part thanks to DeeDee.

     I agree that most of what she had said is hearsays (TM telling her what GZ does) and therefore won’t be accepted in court.

     However, the end of her story isn’t hearsay. It’s the most direct witnessing of GZ aggressively pursuing TM.

     When she states that TM yelled “What are you following me for?”. This is not TM telling her, “I asked that man …”, she witnesses the start of the argument between the 2 men. She identifies TM’s voice, she understands the words out of TM’s mouth and those words depict someone deeply puzzled by what is happening to him.

     When she states that she heard a deeper voice yelling “What are you doing around here?”, again, she identifies the voice of an unknown person, she understands the words that person is saying, and amazingly those words depicts a person deeply suspicious of Trayvon Martin. We all know that GZ, on the phone with the dispatcher, was deeply suspicious of TM just 3 minutes before the scuffle. I mean, it could not be better match. It is like Cinderella’s foot and the glass shoe: no one else can fit in it in the whole kingdom.

     When she states that that deeper voice sounded tired (exhausted, out of breath), she identifies someone who has been running or walking really fast. TM told her that the man was running after him. That’s hearsay. But, stating that she could tell the man was exhausted that’s direct witnessing and it could not be further away from GZ’s claim that he was just walking back to his truck. I mean, it is a direct contradiction to his statement.

     When she states she could hear the grass. This is straight in line with the fact that the phone was found in the grass next to TM, meaning she is a very valuable witness even if she was “only” a ear-witness.

     When she states that she heard TM shouting “get off, get off”. This is not TM telling her what he yelled. She is again a direct witness of the beginning of the violent altercation between the 2 and what she tells us is that the unknown man with a deeper voice did put his hands on TM first. I really mean “first”.

     DeeDee witnessed only the very beginning of the confrontation. The beginning of the confrontation is what the witnesses at 2851 RVC (wit 18 = teacher), 1221 TTL (wit #6 = “john” & #17=”John’s” fiancee) and 1211 TTL (wit #20 = Jeremy & wit #11 Jeremy’s fiancee) have heard without paying too much attention. The teacher heard it, but because it stopped for a while, she went to her bed to read. She really paid attention and went to her window only after hearing it again. The other 4 witnesses were watching TV downstairs. Their TV was loud but they could hear it anyhow. They paid attention and muted their TV only after the voices got loud again. Then they could hear it moving toward them [from the north, the T].

     My point is that DeeDee is THE witness of the very beginning of the confrontation that the prosecution needed. She could hear the noises and voices, identify the voices and understand the words they were saying, and picture an exhausted older man, and picture the grass. At that exact same moment, 5 witnesses could barely hear an argument between 2 men and would even not pay too much attention to it; not before it really turned into a disaster.
     Those 5 witnesses are all valuable to the prosecution. Don’t get me wrong on that. But, their statements can only reinforce what DeeDee says and/or contradict GZ’s claims.

     • Totally agree. I think that’s why the Zimmerman supporters are trying so hard to tear her up. They KNOW she’s going to slaughter their articulate, stuck up, better than thou arses.

       The best irony here is that they can throw darts all day long at her, but her account is backed by a cell phone records.

     • i didn’t realise dee dee heard trayvon say get off, did she say that in her earlier interview with the lawyer? i thought she heard trayvon speak and then george speak and then the sounds of a scuffle before the phone went dead.

       • Jo, she talked about TM saying “get off” right before she says the line goes dead.

207. i am so sorry to be a pest, i have final essays and exams at the mo and feel like i keep missing things, but is there a video of zimmermans reenactment with the police from the evidence dump (something princss6 said above i think) or is there only independent youtube reenactments?

     • Independent/Animated

       • ahhh ok thankyou

208. i have had a couple of drinks so that is my disclaimer right there, haha, but i have to say that the death of this young man has affected me so deeply. I can’t listen to that nelly song without crying like a baby, i take all the crap written about this normal teenager personally, i think of his parents and wonder how they can continue with such dignity. Thanks to the kind hearts and smart heads here at bcclist. It’s comforting to discuss what happened amongst others who respect this young man and his family. Thanks NLME for giving us a place of discussion without the abuse you find everywhere else.

     • I’ve lost a few night’s sleep – no exaggeration – over Trayvon’s murder. I’m looking forward to an eventual closure (for me at least) when he’s convicted.

       • I’m with you. Last night I kept imagining GZ getting the idea to dump his gear at the T. One of the witnesses did see him walking back from or towards the T. Was there time? I can’t imagine what investigators go through knowing that they have clues that someone did wrong, but not having the evidence to finish the picture. GZ made a huge effort to push his account at the scene onto witnesses and investigators, so it isn’t clear to me whether we will ever really know what this kid went through in the final moments of his life. The fact that GZ is charged and going through this process helps me a lot, but to have the rest of us to demand greater accountability by sponsors and users when it comes to these SYG laws will be an even greater triumph.

     • I see I am not the only one, I was seriously crying my eyes out when I looked at the video of him at 7-11, right before he was killed. It just seemed so real. Before all I saw was him in pictures but I never saw him walking,living and breathing. I keep thinking about him in the dark and alone, crying for help. I know he had to be scared out of his mind.

209. Round 2 bond hearing for GZ set for June 29th

     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/07/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1577242.html?ref=black-voices#comments

210. I think the sound of the door chime comes from the headlights being left on. I have a Honda Accord and if I forget to turn off my lights I will hear a chiming noise letting me know my lights are still on. This is after the keys are out of the ignition and my door is open.

     • I was thinking that too but the Ridgeline’s lights were off (I believe) before/at the :45 mark.

211. How do you know any of the vehicles in the picture from the evidence dump belonged to Zimmerman? That picture was taken in the daylight, and he would have been able to move his car before that. There is a white pickup that is consistently parked in that vicinity from google images.

     • In the blog posting I asked if the vehicle shown was Zimmerman’s truck but I clearly never said the vehicle pictured (Nissan Titan) WAS his truck.

       Fast forward to a few weeks later and I’ve determined Zimmerman drove a Honda (keychain 30+ feet north of the scuffle and door chimes) Ridgeline, Pilot, or equivalent.

       I assume/guess investigators would use a similar vehicle (like the shown Nissan Titan) for the crime scene pics.

       The most important part of this case…

       Where did Zimmerman say his truck was parked?

       If Zimmerman said the vehicle was parked in the location shown in either of my maps (or where Frank Taaffe said it was parked), he is toast.

       • @NLME
         I just did a search, the Daily Beast has it black if that is any help.

         11. Oct. 14, 2007 – 4:10 p.m.

         Type: TEL
         Subject: Suspicious activity
         Report: Possible criminal mischief to the tire of Zimmerman’s black Dodge Durango

     • @NLME

       This is probably old news and I missed it, but I was just reading a article that said GZ drove a Dodge Durango in October 2007 and was deep in debt. Maybe still has the same one? I don’t know, I just thought I would pass it on just in case.

       • Oh no — now I have to listen to a bunch of Dodge Durango clips? Ha!

         I definitely will (tomorrow morning when I FINALLY tie up some loose ends on the evidence dump) but my understanding is the chime heard in Zimmerman’s 911 call and the one I finally found for the Ridgeline are “exclusive” to Hondas.

       • Forget about listening to Dodge chimes.

         Come on, 2007 was a long time ago. And he was in debt. It was probably repossessed and he has something else since then. Didn’t the parents say something about helping them with payments on a vehicle?

     • @NLME

       I know, I’m really sorry about that. Thanx for all the work you do.You do a great job!!! I really like this blog.

       • Thank you for the compliment and always insightful comments. More to come this weekend…I’ve been buried as of late.

212. Dershowitz vs Angela Corey:
     http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Zimmerman-Trayvon-Angela-Corey/2012/06/05/id/441305

     To which I emailed them:

     ” No “serious injuries” were documented. Professional diagnosis was “treat with soap and water”.”

     LoL, “Serious life threatening injuries”??? Dershowitz needs to read more!

     • This “serious life threatening injury” narrative is playing out well so far for Zimmerman.

       It’s what my mom thought too until I showed her that his head “injury” resulted in no concussion and a treatment of warm, soapy water. I can’t wait for the jury to review (all of?) Zimmerman’s medical records.

       • May be you should put up a linkable image file, so that our less techie friends could easily copy and paste the link whenever they find such a reference.

213. Not sure if you have these already, but the of the cameras from the clubhouse are on youtube now. I don’t see anything of value in them, but I admit I did not watch them from beginning to end. I’ve never watched paint dry either! 🙂

     Front Door
     

     Game Room
     

     Kitchen
     

     Lounge
     

     Pool 1
     

     Pool 2
     

     Pool Hall 1
     

     Pool Hall 2
     

     Rear Door
     

     • Thanks for posting this. I agree that there is probably nothing on here but evidence that he didn’t commit any crime at the clubhouse. If there is any evidence that is worth seeing, they have probably held it back. And likely won’t put it out until after the jury is chosen, if one is needed.

       • Well, San San. I think the police may be using these vids as evidence of possible times Zimmerman drove by based on the lighting.

         For example, at the 31:09 mark of the Rear Doors video, the light on the doors clearly changes as a car/suv/truck apparently drives by with headlights on.

         Also, in the Game Room video @.28, same thing. Light reflection changes and seems like a vehicle with headlights on passed by.

         The other videos probably have similar indications. I found these points by clicking through the video focusing on one particular light source at a time and revisiting anything that seemed different.

         The problem is we don’t have a floorplan of the clubouse and I don’t see datestamps/timestamps on the videous to know the relation to the crime scene. Would be nice if we had both.

     • I could have sworn that I thanked you for posting these videos (even though I’m guessing they’ll kill this posting’s page load time…as if that hasn’t been accomplished yet…ha!). So, since my reply apparently wasn’t posted, thank you!

       It looks like you reviewed a few of the videos in detail/full. I reviewed the game room and back door videos at the times you indicated. To confirm — so that I don’t have to watch paint dry too — was Trayvon or his shadow ever seen?

       I wish they were time stamped — I want to see exactly when the police car lights went flashing by. In any event, I assume this is part of the 50% of evidence that was released. There has to be some outside footage that was recorded and not released yet, correct?!?

       • LOL! Uh, nope. I didn’t watch all the way the through. Tried and I cannot.

         I used the slider bar to jump from point to point and noticed the differences from image to image. There used to be software (freeware) out there that allowed you to load a vid and slice it up into screen grabs. That might be worth looking into to see why the police deemed these vids evidence.

         I can only guess that they used them to show Zimmerman’s possible driving direction to the clubhouse and where he parked based on the light flashes shown in the videos.

         The pool vid, for example, shows the twin trees light reflections of cars. I don’t know what the others show.

       • Also.. There’s a blogger or “net presence” who has done a bunch of work on analyzing the angles and views of various web media that I have found helpful in explaining what we’re seeing in the pics/vids. He/she posts the resulting images at flicker.

         • Do you have their flickr handle?

214. I agree tchoupi, DeeDee is the prosecutions best ear witness and I do believe there is a smoking gun somewhere – has anyone viewed the video taken from the mail box area? I vaguely recall hearing about it. If it shows that Trayvon did not circle GZ’s car as GZ claims occurred, or if it shows GZ exiting his vehicle with his gun in hand, this will be a slam dunk case. I just can’t believe that the prosecution would charge Murder2 with simply what we have seen to date for evidence. Of course, we haven’t seen GZ’s statements and there may lie the evidence they need. The fact that GZ has been caught scheming with his wife to be deceitful to the court has helped the prosecution in so many ways. The last thing I want to add is I hope that the prosecution works with DeeDee on testifying – I understand she is just a kid – but MOM is going to try his best through deposition to trip her up.

     • There seems to be a security camera at the actual estate gate, covering the street. THAT is what they should be looking at.

       The clubhouse one only shows the insides, which is useless to us.

       • Taaffe on his twitter said that the camera @ the gate was not working that nite, so I don’t know 😦

215. Aussie says: “The key at the T looks like that is where the fight started maybe. ”

     ######

     I don’t think that the Honda key at the T indicate where the confrontation started.

     DeeDee is pretty clear about hearing the cell phone falling in the grass before going dead. If you had the the 7-11 plastic bag is right next to it on the sidewalk. I believe that this is where GZ initially put his hands on TM (this is right between the teacher’s and john’s house (2nd down from the T).

     What I have in mind is TM breaking free and rushing north leaving his items on the ground. To do so, he may have hit GZ with the ice teat in the plastic bag. So, TM rushed toward the T, but he needs to recover his stuff so he may hesitate there. This would be the period when all witnesses hear no arguing.
     GZ comes back on TM and the scuffle starts again near the T. This is where the keys are lost. The 4 witness at 1211TTL (Jeremy & Jennifer) & 1221TTL (Johnathan & Amanda) notice the noise and lower the volume of their TV. They then realize this is serious whiloe the hear the thing moving toward them from the north (this is per their statement). In other words, their is a chasing from the back to the 2nd houses down from the T.
     Running south, TM probably was collecting his items on the ground when GZ caught up with him for the last time.

     This is what I can picture when reading the witness map (I hope it will be posted soon). It’s a very dynamic confrontation, that involved chasing from John’s house to the T back down to john’s. It explains the spread of items on the ground and the gap of time between the initial argument and the crying.

     • tchoupi: The teacher does not live on either the West or East side of the sidewalk — not in John’s building, and not in Mary and Selma’s. Rather her town home is in the building just North of the T.

       • That would be an interesting information and I would get any information you get about that.

         She definitely lives on RVC: 1) The evidence dump shows her address ends with “[…]Circle”, adn 2) the audio of the interview shows it ends with “[…]ty One Retreat View Circle”

         Locating the teacher was not easy. However, she herself gave many indications in her 911 call and in her testimony. I used those indications to conclude that she lives at 2851 RVC right across the side walk from John (1221 TTL).

         ####

         I first concluded that she had to be living in one of the houses really close to the scuffle. Why? Because she is one of the witnesses that saw and heard the most. Moreover, she could listen to what GZ was saying to Officer T. Smith and report it life to the dispatcher during her 911 call.

         ####

         I processed by elimination too…
         Many of the witness can be located easily as they own their house and/or do business in their house.

         In the end, only 2851 RVC would match. That house is actually a rental. So, there is no way to know for sure who lives in unless you have a name.

         ####

         I used the information she gave in her 911 call .

         These are pieces of her 911 call that suggests she lives right across the back path from John’s…
         “Yes, and I’m looking out at my window, that’s my backyard, and someone is yelling and screaming ‘Help’, ”
         “Oh my god! There’s something other [???] It started at my window. I mean, I heard those voices, right here at my window.” [4’47”]
         “No, I was just watching my TV. And this is my back window. And then, you know, I heard people talking out there. […] And then I heard more talking voices and I… I did[n’t] open my window. And then I guess… It looks like I saw ‘Oh there’s two men talking to each other or it was like wrestling each other’ and then I, then I heard the man saying ‘Help! Help!’.” [6’07”]

         This shows she could hear talks from GZ and police.
         “He just said he shot the person [2’28”].”
         “I can hear [???] I mean the Officers, they are right on the person and he killed someone.” [5’07”]

         This shows she could see details from inside her bedroom upstairs.
         “I’m just scared. [inaudible] I can’t… I can’t even breathe. […] the other person. Oh, my god, a young boy, I can’t imagine, I haven’t seen anyone killed.”

         ####
         Conclusion, judging from the details of her account the only possible address I see is 2851 RVC.
         I can be wrong, so, if you have information that I miss, I would appreciate greatly.

216. Okay, I see a problem… the phone falls to the grass BEFORE there’s running and chasing and shouting, which Dee Dee doesn’t hear. Also, the phone may not have cut off immediately but a few seconds later as they usually do. Or when it gets wet. Okay, either way, there’s time when they’re moving north and they should be leaving the phone behind in the grass, right?

     So, if they’re moving north after the phone falls to the grass, how does the phone wind up to the north next to where the shooting occurs? We know that “all eyes” are on GZ, and he goes north after the shooting. So, who went south and brought the phone back north? We know that TM could not do it, we know that there wasn’t time for GZ to do it. We also know that evidence was being moved around by GZ and very likely there was someone there to help him. Or, correct me if I’m wrong, shouldn’t the phone have fallen to the grass before they started moving north towards the T?

     So, who moved the phone?

     • Note that I’m working with the new assumption that TM actually reached his house. There’s time for him to get there, there’s only GZ as a reason for him to leave home again.

       So let’s try it that way for a while. TM gets home, GZ confronts him there!
       The phone falls there, and the running chasing begins.

       There’s enough that’s suspicious that happens to surmise that someone was, at least trying to help GZ along. Things being overlooked, words being put in other people’s mouth, by supposedly impartial others. The “call my wife tell her I shot someone”, instead of “come to the station”, “something has happened I’ll explain later”.

       The only reason we assume the fight happened at the down there, is because that’s where the body is found. So, from there, we assumed that TM was pushed there, and the phone fell to the ground there. But, he’s headed home and “he’s lost him”, and since he never attacked GZ, he obviously didn’t lay in wait for him, nor did he hide. Otherwise, he’d have told Dee Dee something different than “he’s behind me”.

       So, until he sights GZ again, he has nothing to do but continue making his way home. This thing gets weirder and weirder, like Taaffe making things up to support GZ. If Taaffe was involved he’d be incriminating himself. Same with John, if he was involved in some way, his statement about the “MMA” blows, that he had to recant, would look terribly incriminating. Impartial witnesses just don’t do things like that! They may be mistaken and corrected, but they don’t make up things they’ll have to recant, when confronted with contrary evidence. Well, back to reading.

       • What we know at this point is that GZ is still pursuing TM. What would be the most likely thing GZ is going to do once he comes upon TM? Of course, he’s going to attempt to detain TM, until the cops arrive. This is where the struggle begins and the earphones get pulled out of the handset, so the grass that DD hears is really coming from the phone brushing on the inside of TM’s pocket. Then maybe the battery died, and that’s why the call ended. This would leave the phone in the hoodie pocket to be pulled out and set to the side by GZ, who is trying to remove any weapons he finds.

     • @Lonnie

       See my post further back(#152)…last comment of that thread. I was getting confused about the likelihood of them meeting up at the north end T. Feel free to read it over. I just needed to work it out in my own mind. But still uncertain. Why doesn’t GZ just fess up already and save the state, and tax payers money of having to prosecute this case. Because, it’s my gut feeling that when emails, texts, phone records, get released it’s gonna be a wrap!

       Also, I read that he made 151 calls during the less than 2wks time he was in jail…is it me, or does that seem like an awful lot of calls? I would imagine some were his attorney, but good grief! He’s a very anxious man, and just listening to O’Mara say how he was ‘frustrated’ over the fact of having to return to prison, and didn’t understand why his life is being interrupted…UH, HELLO!!! What about the permanent interruption to Trayvon’s life that you caused?! You really start to get sense of his mental state of mind. It’s like, he still hasn’t grasped the enormity of what he’s done. In his mind, it’s like what’s the problem…Look, I already explained to the cops, what happened? They believed me, and let me go…so why are me and my family being harrassed and inconvenienced?

       I can only imagine the state of mind he’s gonna be in after having been locked up for nearly a month! Hopefully, he’ll continue with his meds as prescribed.

     • TM was talking to DD through the headphones that were plugged into the phone. When she ‘hears grass’ it’s probably the earphones getting pulled out and either hitting TM, or dangling toward the grass. (These end up in TM’s pockets.)

       The phone itself may still be attached to TM. GZ said something about reaching for his phone to call 911… and I’m guessing it was really TM that did that.

       • Sproulette, they didn’t bother to examine the phone for fingerprints. (Evidence dump p119). The lab was told by “Special Agent Supervisor David Lee” not to fingerprint it. But they still have the phone.

         HEY PROSECUTORS reading this
         we need prints off the phone please.

     • First of all, if he’s at or close to the house, and GZ comes up from the southern end, TM starts walking again. Just tells DeeDee he’s behind me again. So he is not AT the house when he gets sick of it (and/or hears GZ getting closer) and asks, Why??

       By the time DeeDee hears the push, the get off and the phone falling, they’ve gone another house or two further north; more than halfway p the path by this. This might be where he swings the bag containing the tea.

       Could this be the time someone saw ONE person lying on the ground? or was that later? sorry, I can’t keep track. If so, that would be GZ slipped over from being “tea’d” on the nose.

       Time for TM to start moving fast towards the north. Time to scoop up the can and put it into his pouch, too. But at the T he may realise his phone’s gone, and slow down thinking to go back for it.

       By this time GZ is on his feet and catching up with him. Maybe making threats, the cops are on the way, I’ll have you for assault etc….. some pushing and shoving occurs, heading south again. The key/flashlight gets dropped. (not necessarily straight down, it might get knocked through the air and land 5 to 10 ft further north than the people are).

       Near John’s house GZ makes a move for the gun. TM tackles him to the ground and tries to pin his arms down so he can’t use the gun. Screaming for help.

       Dunno. We need a map with the exact locations of all the dropped items marked. I can’t work out the camera angles to know what was where exactly.

     • DeeDee said Trayvon told her that the man was following him again — behind him and “this guy was getting close to him”. She said Trayvon said he thought “this man was about to do something to him”. So whenever/wherever Trayvon Martin saw Zimmerman again, Trayvon got to stepping if he wasn’t already moving.

       The spot where the phone was found was near the body.
       The location of the headphones is disputable.

       Trayvon Martin probably had the cell phone in his pants pocket. DeeDee specifically says it was the *headphones* she heard that got knocked off — not the cell phone. She could still hear a “little bit” of what was going on after the headphones fell. I think the headphones may have fallen inside of Trayvon Martin’s clothes either from a push or a pull on Trayvon’s clothes. The cell phone could have died due to battery outage, getting knocked out during the on the ground scuffle or simply had the end call button being activated/emergency call button activation. I don’t know really.

       Here’s my transcription of DeeDee’s interview beginning @11:24-14:20

       DeeDee: You could hear like ‘bump’. You could hear that somebody bumped Trayvon, ’cause I could hear the grass.

       Interviewer: Okay. So you could hear there was something going on like something hitting something.

       DeeDee: Yeah.

       Interviewer: Okay.

       DeeDee: You could hear the grass there.

       Interviewer: I don’t know. [inaudible… in the street] And then what happened?

       DeeDee: Then I was still screaming. I was saying Trayvon, Trayvon.

       Interviewer: So there was no response?

       DeeDee: Yeah. And then the next thing I hear, the phone shut off.

       Interviewer: The phone shut off?

       DeeDee: It phone shut off.

       Interviewer: Did you hear any kind of screams like help me or anything like that?

       DeeDee: No.

       Interviewer: Okay. Did you hear any kind of shot?

       DeeDee: No.

       Interviewer: Okay. When the phone shuts off, did you try calling back?

       DeeDee: I call him back three or two times.

       Interviewer: Okay. Did you ever get any response?

       DeeDee: No. And texted him.

       Interviewer: Okay. So the last thing you heard was some kind of noise like something hitting somebody?

       DeeDee: Yeah

       Interviewer: Okay. And, um, when you heard that noise — something hitting somebody — did you hear the man say anything or did you hear Trayvon say anything?

       DeeDee: I could hear little bit.

       Investigator: Okay, what could you hear?

       DeeDee: I could just hear.. like, like, the headphones, cause the headphones, he might have got off, But I could still hear a little bit like..

       Interviewer: Okay, what could you hear?

       DeeDee: Like a little “get off” or some stuff.

       Interviewer: You heard “get off”?

       DeeDee: Like little “get off”. Now I’m calling Trayvon [interrupted by interviewer]

       Interviewer: Let me make sure.. Could you tell who was saying that?

       DeeDee: I could hear it was Trayvon.

       Interviewer: I’m sorry.

       DeeDee: I could hear it was Trayvon.

       Interviewer: Let me make sure I understand. You could hear it was Trayvon saying that?

       DeeDee: Yeah. That’s why I was calling his name.

       Interviewer: And he was saying what now?

       DeeDee: Look like “get off”.

       Interviewer: Is that clear that you were hearing that or you THINK you heard that?

       DeeDee: Yeah I could hear it just a little bit saying “get off, get off”. Then the phone just hung up.

       Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Now before all this started, when earlier in the day when Trayvon had been talking to you, right, so recognize his voice, right?

       DeeDee: Yeah.

       Interviewer: And this you had heard him on prior occasions so this was crystal clear that this was Trayvon talking to you, right?

       DeeDee: Yeah.

       Interviewer: So the voice, the other voice of the person you heard you had never heard before?

       DeeDee: [inaudible, presumed confirmation]

       Interviewer: Okay. Can you tell me if the voice was a man, person or a woman?

       […]

       DeeDee goes on to say that she clearly heard a man and his voice was angry.

     • I don’t think the phone was moved or tampered with. The headphones were what got knocked off causing DeeDee to hear a soft landingn of them perhaps. Something happened to them to cause her to hear something different from what she normally hears when talking with Trayvon Martin.

       Also note, the prosecutors have two solid witnesses that know Trayvon Martin’s voice — his mother and DeeDee. The father, too, but the police story and Tracy Martin’s story vary, so no need to bother with a pointless battle when two other people can verify Trayvon Martin’s voice.

       • Did he have headphones or a bluetooth? If it’s a bluetooth, will the phone disconnect or drop a call if it goes out of range?

       • headphones. They were found at the scene, disconnected from the phone. They are in evidence. They don’t seem to have been marked with a number, but there are photos of it on the ground.

217. NMLE, could you add DD’s call to the map? And the show another symbol of how much time in which there is no known contact with witnesses? Let’s assume the simplest possibility is Trayvon ran down he dog path to his back porch. From the time of DD’s call ending, how much time until we pick up on the “scream and shot” 911 call?

     So far, we only have even two suggestions of where TM was when the event began, on his back porch, or behind some other person’s back porch, near the T. The likelihood that Trayvon is going to stand right behind someone else’s house in the dark, and have a conversation on his phone, instead of going to his own back porch, is very low. The idea really only lives in GZ’s cover tale.

     And calling the whole struggle a “fight” is a bad characterization. It seems more like the long, protracted attempt of TM to get away from a creepy guy who had stalked him, chased him twice, and is now attempting to physically detain him, coming from the south, driving TM to the north.

     The time continuum is from GZ’s call, to Dee Dee’s call, to the 911 caller’s call, including any gaps of contiguity. How can we visualize those other like you did with GZ’S call on the map?

     • That’s an outstanding idea! Is there an accurate timeline of their calls (with phone record timestamps)?

       I’m sure I will find one when completing the evidence dump today but if you have a link, that would be great.

218. ANOTHER WANNA BE COP MURDERS unarmed patrons of a club, Kijuan Byrd, shooting him 11 times, AND SHOOTS Byrd’s friend, Michael Smathers 4 times. At least 15 daggone bullets. WTH!

     Another vigilante who decided to hunt him down 2 coons and claim SYG. His biggest mistake was not knocking off all the witnesses and destroying the security cameras.

     Club Lex is supposedly a predominately African American strip club. Why in the he$$ would this wanna be cop be working at that club if all it took was for 2 AA’s rolling some joints to put him in such fear of his life?

     He claims he heard Michael Smathers say, “I’m going to kill that n—er.” And just why would he think Smathers was referring to him? I know, soon we’ll be hearing about all his black friends, mixed race kinfolks, and all the little colored children he mentored and tutored. (smh).

     That female Seminole Sheriff must have given him all of O’Mara’s clients meds; or maybe it was some of that bath salt or cloud stuff they’ve been talking about recently. His story makes absolutely no sense. What reasonable explanation can he have for putting 15 rounds in unarmed folks?

     According to some of his released statements, it’s almost as though he took a page right out of the Trayvon Martin murder case. He accused the victims of,

     “….looking at him, and later when he passed by their vehicle in the parking lot he saw both their doors open at the same time and heard someone say “I going to kill him,” according to a police offense incident report released Friday.”

     According to reports, the wanna be cop’s shift did not start until 11:00 p.m., indicating he was not on duty when he started shooting. He shot Kijuan Byrd 11 times, even after Byrd crawled under the truck. This nut needs to be charged with Murder 1. Ain’t no SYG happening here. Can’t he read?

     Kudos to Miami-Dade Police Department for not taking 45 days to make an arrest!

     http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21007686911421/family-speaks-out-after-loved-one-fatally-shot/

     http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Family-of-Victim-Demands-Arrest-in-Club-Lexx-Shooting–158116605.html

     http://www.local10.com/news/Slain-man-s-family-demands-security-guard-s-arrest/-/1717324/14746534/-/view/print/-/lnwvhmz/-/index.html

     http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/06/08/security-guard-arrested-charged-with-murder-in-club-lexx-shooting/

     T. G.

     • We desperately need to start seeing some convictions in high profile “Stand Your Ground” cases before shiat gets completely out of control. Why is everybody trying to be a vigilante? What’s wrong — I know, it’s cliche to ask — with our society? Is it the 8 years of aggressive/dominating wars where we play the world’s vigilante?

       Note: My intention isn’t to get overly political in this posting and I fully support(ed) the Afghanistan War (only wishing that we had a competent administration kill OBL before 2011 and that the mission concluded shortly thereafter).

       https://bcclist.com/2009/04/03/why-people-hate-the-far-left/

       But, having entered adulthood for 15+ years now, I’ve never seen our society act so anxiously and irresponsibly than over the last 10 years — especially, the last 5 years. There has to be a reason for this madness. It hasn’t been a full moon for the last 5-10 years.

219. O’MARA CLAIMS TO HAVE RECEIVED DEATH THREATS

     Why do I sense O’Mara is trying to make this case all about him? He accused Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig, his clients previous lawyers, of being media hounds.

     He claims he doesn’t want to try his client’s case in the courtroom of public opinion, yet he sets up a website, Facebook, and Twitter accounts for his client. He never seems to miss and opportunity to get in front of a camera or microphone. I think we all know who the media hound really is.

     He keeps repeating lies about the Zimmerman family and his client receiving threats. I guess he thought we forgot about Shellie’s testimony during the bond hearing.

     She admitted to Bernie de la Rionda that although the family received mail, none of it contained threats. She even admitted they never called the police and reporrted any threats because they never received any. That’s probably the only truthful statement they made during the hearing. Still waiting to hear when she turns the mail over to the State ordered.

     He conveniently receives threats around the time of the release of the media dump. O’Mara’s character and integrity, or the lack thereof, is questionable.

     http://www.wesh.com/Zimmerman-s-Attorney-Threatened-OPD-Says/-/11788876/14349768/-/sakwsgz/-/index.html

     http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/zimmerman-s-attorney-threatened-opd-says/1d0lrm2oh?from=

     T. G.

     • I, for one, am so glad somebody else is noticing O’Mara’s duplicitous behavior. Now O’Mara is claiming he mistakenly didn’t turn over Zimmerman’s passport because he mistakenly didn’t file it although he claims to have received it in a Fedex package containing other items (including the money raised by the Zimmerman paypal account).

       TalkLeft’s jeralyn is doing contortions explaining away how O’Mara may not have known about the money (although the whole world already knew about it) and how it is excusable that a “highly respected” attorney can forget to turn over their client’s second passport.

       Someone should start a website/blog listing all the things O’Mara claims he did not know as well as a list of things his client(s) the Zimmerman(s) claimed he didn’t know.

       Zimmerman
       —————

       – I did not know my pre-trial diversion was considered a pre-trial diversion which meant my record was not squeaky clean and needed to be disclosed on my pre-trial intake sheet signed on 4/11/12 by me and my wife”***

       – I did not know at the time whether he [Trayvon Martin] was armed or not

       – I did not know how old he was before I followed him and shot him dead

       – I did not know the dispatcher wanted me to stop following him [Trayvon Martin] when they told me they did not need me to do that

       – I did not know I wasn’t suppose to follow people as a NW captain

       – I did not know I needed to disclose my $204K cash in the pay-pal bank account to the court at the bond hearing where my attorney said I was indigent when the court was considering my ability to pay

       – I did not know that my attorney should be made aware of the amount in the pay-pal account before allowing him to declare before the courts that I had no money or assets

       – I did not know I had access to the $204K raised for my personal living expenses and legal expenses and that those funds could be used for posting bond, although I discussed transferring funds and using the same money raised at the pay-pal website for bond with my wife on a recorded jail telephone line a few days before my trial; as well, I used about $50K of the money to pay off my bills and buy other stuff

       – I did not know that my brother would be needed in court to testify about his handling of monetary affairs surrounding my pay-pal account raise

       – I did not know that if I transferred control of my pay-pal account to the only member of my immediate family that was not scheduled to be in court, that it would look deceitful for my wife and me to claim we didn’t know how much money we had and defer to the one family member we hadn’t spoken to in years who was also not in court to give an accounting

       – I did not know my wife shouldn’t have moved my vehicle from the crime scene

       – I did not know I should have told officer Serino and all other officers at the crime scene that I was on my way to Target by motor vehicle (Honda) instead of leading them to believe I was following Trayvon Martin by foot, sullying their investigation

       – I did not know I should have identified myself as neighborhood watch when asked by a guest why I was following him even though he expressed fear when “he ran”

       Zimmerman’s attorney, O’mara
       —————————————
       – I did not know George Zimmerman had raised $204K via paypal at the time I represented to the court that he was indigent; I don’t read the news and didn’t see the worldwide publications of the money raised on Zimmerman’s self-directed pay-pal website displaying graffiti/cultural center defacement – “long live Zimmerman”

       – I did not know I turned over to the court as evidence my client would not flee the one INVALID/unusable passport my client gave me; this invalid passport was one of the TWO passports my client possessed

       – I did not know after being made aware of the second passport (the valid one) that I had not sent this valid passport to the court after being made aware of it (although I thought I had done so weeks ago)

       – I did not know it was unethical of me to present to the court my client’s financial status without requesting bank statements of my client

       • Now, I do agree that his failure to disclose the passport (and Zimmerman’s financials) is disturbing. Do you have link where O’Mara states he received the 2nd passport but decided to do nothing with it?

       • Re the passports, see the State’s motion and the video/transcripts of same. Will post a link should I find again.

         Re the money, it’s posted at Zimmerman’s lawyer set up website and I refuse to post a link to it. This is a quote from that page:

         “The audio recordings of Mr. Zimmerman’s phone conversations while in jail make it clear that Mr. Zimmerman knew a significant sum had been raised by his original fundraising website. We feel the failure to disclose these funds was caused by fear, mistrust, and confusion. The gravity of this mistake has been distinctly illustrated, and Mr. Zimmerman understands that this mistake has undermined his credibility, which he will have to work to repair.”

         • Wow — that website statement regarding the failure of Zimmerman to disclose his funds contrasts starkly from the appearance I saw O’Mara make after Zimmerman was ordered back to jail. I can try to find a link (if you’d like) but to paraphrase…

           “Zimmerman screwed up big time. I don’t expect bail to be set again and I completely understand that he’s lost his credibility now.”

       • @NMLE –

         Here’s the link to June 1, 2012 hearing audio: http://soundcloud.com/producermatthew/june-1-george-zimmerman

         O’Mara begins at 33:45.

     • I may take some heat for this but…

       I actually like how O’Mara has handled things — at least publicly — to date. Meaning, in the few interviews I’ve seen of his, he seems sane. Yes, there’s a website, twitter account, and facebook page that his firm has launched for Zimmerman. But, I assume he told Zimmerman that if he wanted his legal defense, he was going to have to yank his crazy arce site and be represented by something more sane.

       I also liked how O’Mara told (paraphrased) the media, “My client lied during the original bond hearing. I don’t expect bail to be set again. And, yes, this hurt his credibility.”

       That’s a refreshing statement. You won’t hear something like this out of most defense attorneys.

       Keep in mind — many/most of us will not like O’Mara because his defense is nearly impossible and will fully contradict what’s rational. He’s got one of the most challenging jobs on the planet right now and I don’t pity him at all (other than the eventual payday).

       • O’Mara has a very good reputation. He was recommended to the Zimmerman family by Mark Nejame. I think that, like most criminal defense attorneys, these guys are basically liberal Democrats. It’s a badge of honor for these folks to defend the unpopular, as a check on the power of the State. Given that Angela Corey made her name by prosecuting a 12 year old as an adult, I think I’d rather hang out with O”Mara. And his new co-council is a public defender forcrissakes. In the larger scheme of things, these are the good guys.

         My take on O’Mara is that he is very smart, and he’s playing to the jury pool. You won’t hear most defense attorneys say “My client lied during the original bond hearing. I don’t expect bail to be set again. And, yes, this hurt his credibility,” because most defense attorneys are bright enough to have learned the lesson of “The Gambler.” You gotta know when to hold, know when to fold ’em. O’Mara knows that nobody from Conservative Treehouse is going to be seated on the jury. He can’t present Zimmerman as a saint. He has to come up with a BELIEVABLE way of presenting GZ is a sympathetic light. And as Zimmerman’s advocate, O’Mara knows his own credibility is crucial. So now the line is, “Well, yeah, he’s a @#$%-up, but he’s not a murderer.” The wing-nuts were outraged when the first thing O’Mara did after taking the case was extend his sympathies to the Martin family for the loss of their son. He’s not going to go for the ‘Trayvon was a thug’ narrative because a jury’s not going to like somebody who’s trashing a dead kid who can’t defend himself. And he’s probably going to have GZ admitting to a certain degree of responsibility or at least error that stops short of the criminal charges. This will also enrage the Treehouse.

         My hypothesis is that right now Mark O’Mara is the only person actually looking out for George Zimmerman as a human being, as opposed to some kind of cause or symbol, and he’s probably doing that because it’s his job, and just who he is.

         It may seem odd to say this on this forum, but I believe GZ is a pawn and his prosecution is a sideshow, designed to take attention away from the insane SYG law, and the institutional racism, corruption and incompetence in the SPD and the Florida States Attorney office that originally let GZ go scot free, (or should I say Scott free). Keep in mind that Angela Corey, as was Norm Wilfinger before her, is a political crony of Tea-Bagging governor Rick Scott, who is currently defying the US Justice Department with a series of schemes to implement racist voter repression measures, the likes of which haven’t been seen since the Jim Crow era.

         • “Given that Angela Corey made her name by prosecuting a 12 year old as an adult, I think I’d rather hang out with O”Mara.”

           Agree!

           From the original blog posting…

           http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2012/03/31/prosecutor_in_trayvon_martin_case_known_as_tough/?page=full

           http://www.change.org/petitions/reverse-decision-to-try-12-yo-cristian-fernandez-as-an-adult

           “My hypothesis is that right now Mark O’Mara is the only person actually looking out for George Zimmerman as a human being, as opposed to some kind of cause or symbol, and he’s probably doing that because it’s his job, and just who he is.”

           Agree!!

           “Keep in mind that Angela Corey, as was Norm Wilfinger before her, is a political crony of Tea-Bagging governor Rick Scott, who is currently defying the US Justice Department with a series of schemes to implement racist voter repression measures, the likes of which haven’t been seen since the Jim Crow era.”

           Agree!!!

         • Very much on point. Kudos Whonoze!

           I’m not trying to excuse O’Mara or even denigrate him, either way. Just to show that assumptions can lead to serious mistakes being made.
           People who were born before the internet became so pervasive, probably still continue to discount it and/or omit it from their thinking. O’Mara very easily could, thus have little reason to disbelieve that a person who says they’re broke, while showing all the signs of never having had money, probably is broke.

           He’s a public defender, so he’s seen plenty of people who were broke or at least claimed to be. He probably knows that some of them had secret stashes of cash, but he had no reason to believe that such a stash was really consequential. Like the guy claiming he’s broke, but he really has 500 to 1,000 dollars hidden some where. Public Defenders don’t engage such trivialities, just hope that their defendant can manage his bails somehow.
           The usual story is that a “friend” or family member comes forward to post it.
           Since you don’t get the lowest bail by telling the court that you’ve got scads of cash.

           It’s just that this time it went over the line, for reasons O’Mara just isn’t used to seeing.

       • Omara is the best thing zimmerman has going for him. He has handled Georges disrespect of the law and court and judge and every one else admirably even taking some of the heat (hello passport) himself. He has been as honest as he can while still protecting his client. He is not going to deny the undeniable although he has tried to explain them away (not buying it but i guess it’s his job). I think he has also been a victim of zimmermans arrogance. George did not even fully disclose everything to his lawyer making Omara look like a tool in front of the judge and the world. I’m sure Omara ripped him a new one when he found out about the money (he would have asked for details after the bond hearing i bet, statements and all, he would never let his client lie so blatently to the judge because his ass is on the line too so i’m betting omara didn’t know about the money) and that is why george coughed up the passport, not because of his concience but because Omara would have read him the riot act once he heard the truth about the money and then they had to try and explain what happened. Omara is awsome. I really like him and i respect that he seems to be pretty much straight down the line, probably to earn brownie points yes, but zimmerman is such an unlikeable character (unless you like shooting kids) that omara will make up for that with his no bullshit kind of persona…smartest thing george did was to hire him. I don’t like that he is on the wrong side but he seems good at what he does and if george has any chance it will be because of Omara cleaning up his mess. Actually he reminds me of Tom Mesereau if anyone knows him. mild mannered and trust worthy.

       • O’Mara is legally required to provide the best defense possible, otherwise GZ will have “ineffective counsel” to fall back on at the appeal.

         Of course he has to admit the hit to GZ’s credibility and that GZ lied at the bond hearing, since, to do anything else against this widely disseminated and documented evidence would disable his own ability to proceed with any defense. GZ has already made fools of many of those who attempted to support him. Dershowitz tried to rely on GZ’s wounds, only to discover that TM’s hands could not possibly have been the cause of them. My guess is that in legal circles Dershowitz has taken a very big hit on this, since the autopsy report was already available when he spoke!

         Even “kneejerk me” didn’t make that mistake, even though, if you read through the first blog you’ll see that I didn’t believe that GZ’s wounds came from TM almost from the first! That was because I just can’t see the demeanor of a well comporting child, suddenly turning to such gross disrespect of an elder. Every violation of the rules TM’s makes is a passive one. Where you’d expect there to be gross disrespect claimed. We’ve all been to class, we know that troublemakers are troublemakers, and you can spot them a mile away, by the demeanor and disrespect for others they display. They wear it like a badge in every encounter! Teachers put them down as “disruptive”, when they are so clever as to stay “this side of the line”, and still ply their trade.

         A thug would have gone to the store, without any concern for “little brother” and his skittles, and never say “Please or Thank You”, since that kind of talk is for “sissies”! You’ll never come across a kid who is half thug and half gentle child, they just don’t exist because the skills aren’t yet there and the social implications are not understood by the child.

       • NLME,

         “I also liked how O’Mara told (paraphrased) the media, “My client lied during the original bond hearing. I don’t expect bail to be set again. And, yes, this hurt his credibility.”
         =================================================

         Nah, I’m not going to give you any heat for expressing your POV, although I somewhat disagree with it. The guy just gives me the “heebeejeebees”.

         Come on now, what did you really expect him to say? Now you know that’s a bunch of old school reverse psychology; him playing to the sympathies of the judge, potential jurors and his client’s supporters. To say otherwise, would be like calling the Prosecution and the judge liars; the quickest way to commit professional suicide.

         O’Mara just seems to be so sneaky, so pretentious. It’s very subtle, yet so noticeable. Don’t know if you’ve spent a lot of time with or around legal beagles, especially defense lawyers, but for anyone who has, it’s easy to spot the deceit, and the pre-planned announcements of “Plausible Deniability”. Don’t let the press statements fool you, it’s all well orchestrated, simply all part of the game. It’s what they do.

         T. G.

     • @NLME –

       I look at it like this. If McDonald’s can be held liable and sued for serving a too hot $1 coffee beverage, I see no need to excuse a multi-million dollar commanding lawyer for accidentally NOT filing pertinent documents with the courts like whatever doc he was required to file when he would turn over the valid passport — which he failed to do. He was real showy in his presentation to the court when turning over the invalid passport.

       In addition, he had an obligation, at a minimum an ethical obligation, to get bank statements (including statements for the pay-pal website account asked about at the bond hearing) BEFORE telling the court (the taxpayers) that Zimmerman was too poor to pay a reasonable bond. The defense wanted $1mil which 10% of would have been $100k. Zimmerman had $204K and could have afforded it. Zimmerman chose to lie about it through his attorney. A good attorney would not permit this as it makes the attorney look inept and gullible.

       • “In addition, he had an obligation, at a minimum an ethical obligation, to get bank statements (including statements for the pay-pal website account asked about at the bond hearing) BEFORE telling the court (the taxpayers) that Zimmerman was too poor to pay a reasonable bond. The defense wanted $1mil which 10% of would have been $100k. Zimmerman had $204K and could have afforded it. Zimmerman chose to lie about it through his attorney. A good attorney would not permit this as it makes the attorney look inept and gullible.”

         Oh, I agree full-heartedly. In fact, O’Mara should have not only presented the paypal/bank statements but also the IP address login information for each and every attempt to access the accounts.

         • Although it may have seemed reasonable to ask for bank statements etc., this is only from the perspective of the “new age” we’re living in. I don’t think any attorney has encountered a situation, where a client who appeared to be broke, acted like he was broke, whose family said he was broke and had a lot of unpaid bills, owe money, poor job etc., was not in fact broke.

           This money was raised very quickly using the web. O’Mara was probably astounded to learn how much had been raised so quickly. He’d never have guessed it could be done until then, so he merely took GZ at his word. He just couldn’t visualize where any money of consequence would come from in such a short time. GZ’s shabby clothes and simple manners would have presented a pretty here-to-fore convincing picture.

           Of course, now they know better, that large sums can appear almost overnight using the web. O’Mara probably never dreamed of it before, not being web savvy himself. So, I’d have to say he was caught by surprise on this count. Where as before, if you had raised such an amount of money, there would have been some real activity to show it, phone ringing off the hook, people contacting you, making phone calls, busy, busy, busy.
           Today, you don’t even have to answer the phone or leave the house for the money to come quietly rolling in.

       • Stepping out of lurkdom:

         I’m with you CSFC, O’Mara is a snake and he is playing the media. Now, he says, the confessed killer disclosed the money the first opportunity he had five days after the bond hearing, willingly and freely. Who here believes that there was no discussion of funds PRIOR to the bond hearing? Seriously? So O’Mara is parsing…they discussed funds and yes he should have asked for verification. But he is trying to basically say that since he didn’t specifically ask the confessed killer about the paypal accounts, he wasn’t lying when they discussed funds prior to the bail hearing and he said he had no money. But five days later, when he specifically asked about the paypal accts, then the confessed killer disclosed the information. Yeah, ok!

         He went on the Last Word and feigned a tear. He has intimated that Trayvon’s reputation will also be a part of the trial, so do not believe he won’t go after Trayvon. He conveniently discloses the money, after the bond hearing and once the money is no longer in his client’s control so that when they do disclose, his client can still feign indigence. That first bond hearing was well orchestrated.

         And while he is pulling on your heartstrings – do NOT forget that O’Mara knew that Trayvon’s family was not ready for an apology from the confessed killer. He had been in talks with the Martin family attorneys. But what does he do? He allows the confessed killer to get on the stand and offer a non-apology apology to that family when they had said they did not want it! He has been front and center in the leaks in this case and I don’t buy his put-upon spin. He is trying to paint the confessed killer as some hapless kid – and I’m sorry – the only kid involved here is Trayvon Martin, the CHILD that died at the hands of his confessed killer client.

         O’Mara was brought on to get just this type of reaction from even people sympathetic to Trayvon Martin. And further, I know he has lied so I’m not falling for his media persona. He has willfully turned a blind eye in several instances and I’m not buying it!

       • I read somewhere that O’Mara had some kind of tax problems, like he hadn’t paid or something. So, it seems he’s probably not a “multi-million dollar” attorney. I think the first team left because they realized they couldn’t bring GZ to take the case, or their advice, seriously. In a high profile case that’s got to be incredibly risky to the reputations of the lawyer’s themselves.

         I can’t fault O’Mara for not asking for bank statements though, he doesn’t have an automatic right to question the veracity of his client. If the client tells him something, he can assume it to be true, at least until he learns otherwise. Also, the courts are well aware that attorney’s “work” the facts a wee bit, in defense of their client, the court tries to weigh what facts are being “massaged” as trivial or not. They will give a pass on the trivial that has no impact on the case. I’m really sure that O’Mara gave GZ a good warning about what the results could be, if he lied. Most attorney’s do!

         That GZ took O’Mara for a fool and “hung him out to dry” in front of the court, means he’s not going to be eligible for bail ever again in this case. O’Mara, on the other hand is smarting under the weltering weight of having been played! Now the entire world thinks little of his lawyering skills, so this is likely his last big case ever, He’ll probably be doing divorce and “slip and fall” work for the rest of his life. So here’s his one last chance to really run up the billable hours.

       • @Lonnie –

         I don’t think the tax issue relates to O’Mara personally or his business. What I read was old info from like 2000 or 2004 that had him making a statement about the affairs of an organization he represented. I think it was the Florida Bar Association or some Florida legal defense org. Can’t remember.

         But $400/hr (O’Mara’s rate) is just shy of a $1M/year salary based on a 40/hr workweek. Keep in mind, attorneys claim they work/bill more than 40/hrs per week.

220. Did anyone notice on DD’s interview at 7:27, she says TM says he is going to take the back way to his father’s house because it’s more easier.

     It sounded like he came around the corner of the T, GZ got closer, he walked down the dog path, GZ got on his ass again, the” two minutes” go by, (figurative time?)

     Then GZ approaches TM for the takedown. TM finally asks for the explanation from GZ, and GZ says “what are you doing around here.” Those are fighting words.

     GZ bounces TM, and the the headphones are either pulled off TM’S head, or out of the phone jack. She says she could hear “Get off’ get off!”, as this armed bouncer nicknamed “Tug Boat” attempts to detain him, until the police arrive

     I think if he were at his back door, Trayvon ran back north up the dog path area to yell to the neighbors for help. suddenly that’s the safest place when you are trying to fend off an attacker.
     .

     • Interesting take. I REALLY need to listen to the witness accounts ASAP. I do a lot of video watching regarding this case on my phone & I assume the AxiomAmnesia site isn’t iPhone friendly. Do you have a link to DeeDee’s witness statement on YouTube (and, one that doesn’t include a picture of her)?

       • no, this is from the one with her picture.

221. Wouldn’t gps on zimmerman and trayvons phone tell us their location on that night? I think the prosecution should get the gps on it

     • Some phones/services continually use location based tracking but it’s done by cellphone tower and isn’t street number specific. Well, to be honest, I know this to be a fact as of a couple of years ago…maybe something’s changed.

     • I googled Sanford FL cell phone towers, and they show only one in Orange City and one in Altamonte Springs. Seems a bit distant to me.

       Actual GPS signals in phones are not so much for the cell towers. They’re more for the “locate services” type of apps in the phones. I don’t know if it’s stored in the phone or in the provider’s database. These are accurate down to about 10 or 15 feet.

       • Good point. Apps (and Google Maps) definitely use specific location based GPS data. And, some phones have cameras that grab this GPS data automatically and frequently (if originally allowed by the user).

         I keep forgetting smartphones are super trackable now — thank you. Getting access to this data won’t be as easy (or maybe possible) as obtaining access to information provided by carriers but it’s definitely not impossible…at all.

     • If there is such data available, you can bet the FBI has it. I don’t think the SP has the IT resources to ferret it out. But, we do know that the person who took the picture of GZ’s head had a GEO tagged phone.

       I like the idea of TM using TTL to go to the back door. I would imagine that a scared teen would want to stay on the brightest lit street, and TTL seems to be more public, since it has the possibility of vehicle traffic/witnesses, which could presumably keep a stalker at bay. It seems the least likely place an intruder would want to start a confrontation.

       TM’s idea that he’s lost GZ, would come from him knowing that GZ was left so far behind at his car when TM started running. Then, not thinking he was being pursued anymore, he takes his time to unwind.

       I also think the earbuds were pulled out by GZ grabbing the wire and tugging.
       That would have dislodged the phone as well and it would loosen from the jack and fall to the ground. GZ could have picked it up and looked at it. Maybe they dusted it for prints?

222. I lost my phone acouple of weeks ago and sprint has something called the family locator. I logged into my sprint account and used it and I found my phone. So maybe gz or Trayvon Martin had some sort of locator on their phones. Its definetly something the prosecution should look into. I’m not sure if sprint family locator uses towers or not.

     • Towers can only triangulate between 3 towers. Only accurate enough for them to decide when to switch you to another tower. I live right on a junction. I can watch my phone on a table changing the display between 3 towers every few minutes.

       To get an accurate enough location to find your phone (1 house or 2 from the address where you left it) they would have to be using geo-location, which is by GPS.

       @Lonnie, no, they did not fingerprint TM’s phone, according to the lab report a agent Lee told them not to. Of course they may have since the evidence dump came out.

223. princss6 Says: “Stepping out of lurkdom:
     I’m with you CSFC, O’Mara is a snake and he is playing the media. Now, he says, the confessed killer disclosed the money the first opportunity he had five days after the bond hearing, willingly and freely. Who here believes that there was no discussion of funds PRIOR to the bond hearing? Seriously?”

     I agree with your assessment. Obvious O’Mara is doing what criminal lawyers do well, creating whatever facade that gets the most apathy and sympathy for his client. Look at Casey Anthony. Her lawyer made her look like a sexually abused, forlorn and naive kid. Forget the fact a small child was missing—nay, dead and she lied about it and did not report it. O’Mara will be doing many Houdini tricks, so get ready. It makes me sick.

     These people who love Zimmerman are a part of the new dog eat dog attitude that has become the norm in the US. “Hey, he shouldn’t have been looking gangster or wearing a hoodie up and black” they say…. They really mean is that “it is better to be safe than sorry”. And I am sorry to mention this, because I am sure their are some who harbor guilt, but count how many people closed their doors, locked them and didn’t even watch when someone was crying “help”. Only one woman actually confronted this killer immediately. Nobody is really worried about this. That is why nobody knows what happened. For people who wanted to watch their neighborhood, they couldn’t be bothered to actually really care. That is probably why their neighborhood is going to heck.

     • Being afraid to get involved is not new. Can’t find the details now, but back in the 70s there was a notorious case where 46 people heard a woman screaming for help, while she was being raped in an apartment complex courtyard, and none of them did anything to help.

       There have also been studies done that the more witnesses there are, the less likely each is to help. They all assume one of the others will, or feel one of the others may be more qualified so “should” be the one.

       In this case it makes sense nobody wanted to go out AFTER hearing the shot. Everyone knows guns have more than 1 bullet. They only had half a minute before the shot. But they spent that running upstairs, instead of WITNESSING.

       • Somebody earlier mentioned the perfect storm of non-witnessing that happened that night, right in their backyards. I’ve read somewhere that there was only one small light on (at John’s), Even though a lot of people heard the first exchange before the shot, no one turned their back lights on. It was only a little after 7 o’clock in the evening, hardly a witching hour.

         Imagine how this could have been so different if everyone living there had cared enough to turn their lights on so they could see what was happening. This would be my definition of an effective neighborhood watch program.

       • I know that I shouldn’t be angry at the neighbors, especially since it was dark outside. I just think that good neighborhoods start with neighbors having a very low tolerance for stuff like this. Fighting randomly in other people’s yards almost always mean that it is an assault or attack. Especially if the fight is moving.

         • We are a numb society. For example, in the call that the shot was heard, the witness sounded annoyed that she even had to call 911. And, of course, she barks out orders to her significant other as if he’s a 12 year old.

           Only “The Teacher” gives an account as if somebody got shot and eventually lost their life. Subsequently, she’s the only witness that carefully watches/reports the events play out (after the shot).

           Everybody else is numb, worried about their own safety, and/or “amazed”/shocked at the happenings.

           A 17 year old kid walking home from 7/11 will never take another breath and that’s a damn shame.

       • On the flip-side, I’m impressed that as many people called 911 as they did. I’m also impressed that anyone went outside, or spoke to Zimmerman, right after hearing a gunshot.

         As a female with a kid, I’m not stepping outside to check on a fight between males. I’m not going to attract attention to my home by turning on a light, nor attention to myself by appearing to be watching by turning off an inside light.

         It’s such a short period of time… no one expected someone to get shot to death during what initially seemed to be an argument in such a public space.

       • “Can’t find the details now, but back in the 70s there was a notorious case where 46 people heard a woman screaming for help, while she was being raped in an apartment complex courtyard, and none of them did anything to help.”

         Unless you’re thinking of a different case, you’re off by about a decade and the number of witnesses changes everytime the case gets mentioned, but I think you’re referring to this:

         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

         unitron

224. CommonSenseForChange,

     Wow! Sherlock, you’re definitely on the right track. Just more confirmation, that’s all. I’ve felt that way since the first day he announced he was taking the case. Maybe it had something to do with him bad mouthing Sonner and Uhrig.

     Or maybe it was the wild, confused, crazy and angry look in his eyes when he first appeared, which continues to show, especially when speaking to the media. And I certainly didn’t see anything that was so remarkable about his performance during the bond hearing, other than him proving he’s a liar, con artist and teaser.

     Now bear in mind, the Prosecutor’s office did not find out until the last minute their participation would be required until the last minute, for what is considered a very routine matter, a bond hearing.

     Here’s the confessed murderer’s Passport information.

     5/22/2002:

     He applied for Passport #30183125 at the Charleston, VA Passport Center for a trip to Mexico, 6/7/2002.

     Defendant’s Address: Ivey Glenn Avenue, Orlando, FL 32826
     Occupation: Insurance Sales Agent
     Bus. Tel. No.: (407) 599-0939

     ***3/26/2004: Passport #01735579 is the one he deliberately withheld from the Courts

     *He applied for Passport #017355779 at the Washington D.C. Passport Center for a trip to Bahamas scheduled for 4/20/2004.

     *There a picture floating around the internet of him posing with a woman with the White House in the background. Could be ex-girlfriend, Veronica, or one of his sisters. This could have been around the time when he applied for this passport.

     Defendant’s Address: 1874 Valley Wood Way, Lake Mary, FL 32746
     Occupation: Customer Service Sales Rep., Nationwide Insurance, Lake Mary, FL

     The explanation he gave for lost Passport #017355779:

     Q: Where were you when the passport was stolen?
     Defendant: Unknown
     Q: How was your passport stolen?
     Defendant: While I was in transit visiting my parents in Virginia.
     Q: If your passport was stolen, did you notify the police? If yer, explain when and where you informed the police:
     Defendant: N/A
     Q: Have you had any other U. S. Passports lost or stolen?
     Defendant: No

     Signed: George M. Zimmerman, 3/8/2004

     On 3/26/2004, Defendant obtained another United States passport #017355779. This passport is currently valid until 2014.

     Taken from the transcript of the jailhouse conversations, page 2.

     3 DAYS BEFORE HIS 4/20/2012 BOND HEARING

     On 4/17/2012 @11:27am (call #18587153), while Defendant was in custody in the Seminole County Jail on this charge, Defendant called his wife and spoke with her about his passport. The call was recorded. At approximately seven minutes into the call the following conversation took place regarding the passport:

     Defendant: Do you know what? I think my passport is in that bag.
     Shellie: I have one for you in safety deposit box…..
     Defendant: Ok, you hold onto that.***
     Shellie: For you……***

     NOTE: Once the State got proof/evidence, they stated to the Courts, “The State had notified the appropriate authorities regarding Defendant having AN ADDITIONAL (my emphasis) U. S. passport and they are on alert in case Defendant attempts to use the passport to leave the country. The State also requests that Defendant at minimum be required to immediately turn over his U.S. Passport to Law Enforcement if the Court needs additional time to rule in this motion.”

     ***Now, this is when he should have been saying, “Ok, turn that one in to my lawyer, Mr. O’Mara, because the judge told me to surrender all my passports. He had at least 2 opportunities to tell Shellie to turn it over to O’Mara.

     Keep in mind, O’Mara was given a copy of all this, yet he tells another lie AFTER the fact to cover for his client. The confessed murderer makes no mention of giving O’Mara the passport. O’Mara is just making up stories as he goes along. Another indication of “Plausible Deniability”.

     Just can’t believe the judge said he accepts O’Mara’s explanation for what appears to be another blatant lie. Unless he’s giving them more rope for the Feds to prosecute him on this. It’s against Federal Law to hold 2 current passports and the same time.

     At the time of his first arrest, the confessed murderer was in possession of 2 current passports. Actually, prior to his encounter with Trayvon Martin, he was in violation of federal law. His father, a former magistrate, should have known this was illegal. I get the strong impression there’s some family friction going on, especially about the money.

     Judge Lester is a former prosecutor, whose wife is currently a prosecutor. He has a reputation of being really tough, but fair. We’ll see.

     NOTE: Passport information was certified and verified by Ann R. Murchison, Chief, Records Services Division, Office of Technical Operations, Passport Services Directorate, United States Department of State. Authenticated, signed and sealed by Hillary Rodham Clinton, Secretary of State on 5/30/2012.

     T. G.

225. Is this Trayvon Martin?

     http:// www. youtube. com/watch?v= [redacted] check this out at 23 seconds especially. Doesn’t that sound like the same guy on the 911 tape?

     His stance and walk also looks like the same guy in the video.

     • I redact smut. Send this link to Fox News/Drudge Report — they’ll probably run with it.

       Was Trayvon the referee at a “fight” in broad daylight where two kids are lamely going at it while a bunch of kids watch? Maybe. But, this video – especially in it’s extremely grainy form – is worthless.

       Note: At least the kid assumed to be Trayvon stepped between the two “fighters” in an attempt to break it up.

       • NLME,

         Kudos to you for SYG! Hats off to you! I didn’t even bother to click on the link, and take your word that it’s smut. And besides, it won’t change the fact that the confessed murderer killed an unarmed child, and is now facing charges of 2nd degree murder.

         T. G.

         • The link is redacted, correct? Please say yes — I’m on a mobile device or would check myself.

       • I assume the link redacted here is to a video of “Anthony vs. Curtis” the after-school boxing match in which Trayvon can be seen in the audience. This was posted on Wagist as “Did Trayvon Martin Referee School Fights?”. The answer, FWIW, is ‘no’. At the beginning of the tape, the person holding the camera, who is standing back from the action, curses Trayvon for bumping into him. Then you can see Trayvon, hands in pockets, slowly moving up through the crowd to get a better view. Eventually he gets to the front of the audience, and makes a reaction of excitement as one of the fighters scores a blow on the other. Moments later, one of the boys staggers back from taking a blow, “going to his corner” you might say, and the other boy makes a move to follow after. This occurs, by chance, right next to where Trayvon is standing. He holds out his arms, as if to say, “whoa, that’s not fair” and the aggressor at this point stops to let his opponent recover.

         Trayvon is in no way the ‘referee’ of the fight. He’s not even there at the beginning, and the moment noted above is the only time on the tape he communicates with the combatants. The fight is also clearly one of sport, a ‘fight club’ event, not a street fight. There is a fair number of students observing, all looking like normal school kids, not a bunch of gang bangers. All this tape proves is that Trayvon came upon a boxing match between two fellow students, found it interesting and compelling, but didn’t want anyone to get seriously injured. I wonder how many people would condemn him for this, would also condemn everyone who has ever attended a prize fight in person. I wonder how may people who would condemn him for this have themselves watched a prizefight on pay-per-view, or are regular viewers of the seemingly endless flow of MMA bouts on Spike and other cable networks.

         Trayvon watch a fight. Trayvon smoked dope sometimes. He flipped the bird to a camera. He affected ‘gangsta’ lingo when exchanging social media messages with friends. (Oh, and he may have had someone purchase tobacoo for him illegally, or maybe not)…. That’s all they’ve got. And that’s bupkis. I used to teach at a ‘highly selective’ liberal arts college in the NE. The student body is overwhelmingly white and well to do. If these things we now know about Trayvon were marks of criminality, over 2/3 of my male students would be in jail.

         • That’s the video. Nice description of the happenings. While cliche to say it, I’m glad video cameras weren’t popular when I was younger.

       • yeah i’ve seen it and wagist gave it its own blog posting as you said, claiming he was referee. All it showed me was that he seems to be a sweet kid, just watching and stepping in when someone has had enough, and he wasn’t aggressive then either. You are right in your description whonoze and of the crimes he is suppose to be guilty of so zimmermans supporters can call him a thug. Funny that george talks like a wannbe gangsta himself DATNIGGYTB, has been in real fights himself, and probably did a lot worse himself as a teenager. And all the controversy over trayvons photo’s at 14 is pure rubbish also…. in fact the first picture we saw of george was also taken about 3 years ago, difference is he is and was a grown up, trayvon is a kid and 3 years ago he was just a younger kid. And i cant see much difference anyway, he may be a bit taller now but his face has not changed much at all from 14 to 17, he still has a sweet face and you can see kindness in his eyes.

226. CommonSenseForChange,

     Here’s more from the jailhouse conversations transcript, page 5.

     5 DAYS BEFORE DEFENDANT’S 4/20/2012 BOND HEARING

     4/15/2012 @ 10:34am (call #18568099): At approximately 10 minutes into the call, the following conversation took place regarding Defendant’s financial circumstances:

     Defendant: You’re going to take out $10 and keep it with you in cash, less than 10.
     Shellie: Like $9.
     Defendant: Say about 10. I’m wondering if you have more than $10 right?
     Shellie: Not with me.
     Defendant: You don’t have access to more than $10 in your account?
     Shellie: I do.
     Defendant: I have access to.
     Defendant: In your account.
     Shellie: Yeah.

     All of the calls appear to be damaging, however, this is one of the most incriminating ones of all. This particular call, at least to me, was a real eye opener. It shows the depths of their deceit. Okay, I know you all know that “9” means $9,000, and 10, $10, means $10,000. And I’m guessing that “less than 10” is code for $9,999. And I’ll tell you why.

     Cash transactions (withdrawals and deposits) of $10,000 or more during a 24 hour period trigger a report to the U. S. Department of Treasury (unless federal banking laws have changed recently). Transactions under $10,000 usually don’t trigger a report, but could in some instances.

     This can also happen if a series of smaller transactions are made over the course of a few days if the Feds feel it’s being done for the purposes of getting around the $10,000 rule. The purpose of this is to catch and prevent money laundering, tax invasion, or any type of criminal activity. It’s part of “The Bank Security Act of 1970”. I guess they don’t teach this in “I WANNBE A COP SCHOOL”.

     People are ignoring, perhaps forgetting or just aren’t aware of the fact, that according to the laws that govern the state of Florida, a person cannot solicit funds for profit or non-profit without first submitting an application/request through Florida Division of Consumer Services. The confessed murderer had not done this, and this is another reason O’Mara was so frazzled as he stood before Judge Lester and promised to register the account with FDCS.

     I’ve posted the following several times to this blog, that after Ms. Corey filed the “Probable Cause Affidavit” she stated, “….AND MORE CHARGES MAY BE FORTHCOMING”. When she finishes adding more charges against the confessed murderer, it will be the equivalent of First Degree Murder. I know too much about how she operates to have ever doubted her. She never needed the GJ, and I’m so glad she decided not to go that route.

     T. G.

227. CommonSenseForChange,

     Here’s some more to add to your list of O’Mara and his client’s lies. O’Mara lied after the bond hearing when he told the press he didn’t know the Fulton’s/Martin’s thought it was the wrong time for his client to give a BS apology. According to the Fulton/Martin family, they didn’t want nor did they ask for an apology.

     And somebody needs to hold Gladys and Robert, Sr. accountable for the lies they told under oath. During the bond hearing she stated her son volunteered at a social service organization the worked with African-American children.

     She said due to economic problems, the organization closed a few months after her son started. She went on to say, even after they closed down, her son continued to volunteer there for almost 2 years. I’m just trying to figure out how does a person continue to volunteer at an organization that’s been closed down for more than 2 years.

     Here’s some excerpts from news article about the fake arse apology, along with the confessed murderer’s and Gladys’ lies.

     ==========================================================

     He declined to address Zimmerman’s apology, which O’Mara said after the hearing that his client had tried to make in private but was rebuffed.

     Natalie Jackson told CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin on Thursday that O’Mara called to set up a private meeting between Zimmerman and the Martin family. The family declined, Jackson said, indicating they want Zimmerman instead to give a deposition on what happened the night Martin was shot.

     The decision to grant Zimmerman bond followed a hearing in which his wife and parents testified that he was a caring, nonviolent man who organized a campaign on behalf of a homeless man who had been beaten and mentored an African-American boy for two years.

     “I know that he is very protective of people, very protective of homeless people and also of children,” Gladys Zimmerman testified by telephone.

     He also ventured into a dangerous Orlando neighborhood twice a week to mentor a 14-year-old African-American boy, his mother said. She testified that she begged him not to go because of the danger.

     “He said, ‘Mom, if I don’t go, they don’t have nobody,’ ” she said.

     Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/george-zimmerman-asked-for-private-meeting-before-bond-hearing-today-in-trayvon-martin-case#ixzz1xQM0RSOY

     O’MARA ADMITS HIS CLIENT KNOWS HE WAS INVOLVED IN SOME WAY IN THE DEATH OF ANOTHER YOUNG MAN

     Zimmerman appears to be remorseful for the shooting, according to his new lawyer Mark O’Mara, who told ABC News (video below): “Understand that George fully well realizes that he was involved in some way in the death of another young man.”

     “He does not take the result of that altercation lightly at all. That weighed on him, I would imagine, more than the isolation, more than the last six weeks, more probably than the threat of what is to come in the system.”

     http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/video-george-zimmerman-spends-7984-jail-store-cries-through-night

     Did Sanford police know George Zimmerman?

     T. G.

     • O’MARA ADMITS HIS CLIENT KNOWS HE WAS INVOLVED IN SOME WAY IN THE DEATH OF ANOTHER YOUNG MAN

       Not another as well as TM. “GZ is a young man and was involved in death of another….” is how that reads.

       Yes, well. HE said he shot him, right away. Of course he knows he was involved. It is the “some way” that is in dispute.

       The cried-all-night bit? for himself, perhaps. A bit late to be crying for TM, whose welfare he cared about only to make sure he’s really dead…

       • Hi aussie,

         Yes, I agree. It’s just that I believe O’Mara was being sly and deliberate when he used the phrase “another young man” in referrence to his client who is a grown arse, married man. He isn’t Trayvon’s equal as O’Mara attempts to portray him.

         He could have easily said, “….. he was involved in some way in the death of Trayvon Martin”. O’Mara knows Trayvon was a child. He was setting the stage for his client’s fake apology that he knew beforehand would not be accepted by Trayvon’s family. Neither he, nor his client ever acknowledged Trayvon was a child during the bond hearing.

         When the story first came out, a friend of mine called to tell me the confessed murderer killed “another person”, other than Trayvon Martin. They even told other people the confessed murderer had killed someone else. Looks like O’Mara’s orchestrated press release backfired on him.

         I just believe O’Mara was deliberately feeding into the hate mongering being spewed out by supporters of his client who have disseminated lies about Trayvon being a 6’3”, 250 lb linebacker, when they know full well Trayvon was about 6’1”, 150 lb child.

         O’Mara played a dangerous and foolish game in his failed attempt at a play on words in order to get potential jurors to see Trayvon as a man, as opposed to seeing him as the child he was. Millions of people, including him and his client, know Trayvon was a child. It’s sure to come back and bite him.

         T. G.

     • So the framing is that they were both young men. Feh! Trayvon was a child and Zimmerman was not a young man. You hit 25 and you are no longer a young man. You are just a man!

       There was a more than 11 year difference between the two and admittedly the confessed killer knew Trayvon was in his teens! He got one thing right that night, Trayvon’s age. Everything else was dead wrong!

       Let’s not forget O’Mara’s dog whistling press release the day after his client was returned to custody. Yes, it is his job to look out for his client but he is playing with some unsavory memes, mainly this thing about fear for safety because of Trayvon supporters. O’Mara is a double-talker and I believe he knows more than he is letting on regarding the finances.

       To points others have made, yes it is his job to get his client as low as bail as possible. However, recognize that there is the possibility that all of this was disclosed prior to the bond hearing. And recognize that if he was told when he claims he was told, he did not disclose immediately. He set up the fund first then disclosed. He is being weasely.

       • Exactly! The “I did not know how old he was” lie has been well publicized. A grown man hunted down and shot a boy for no good reason. Remember, even the Zimmerman supporters use 7-11 evidence of how “thuggish” Trayvon Martin was, yet the 7-11 clerk, according to Zimmerman supporters, didn’t let Trayvon Martin buy tobacco because he didn’t look old enough to do so. The legal age to buy tobacco in Florida is 18 (I think).

         • 18 is correct.

       • Hi princss6,

         So glad to see you back!

         You nailed it on every point, and I totally agree. I could not have said it better. Seems as though O’Mara is just begging to be charged with contempt.

         T. G.

       • Hi Sleuth! Thanks! It is good to be back and read yours and others comments!

228. NLME,

     “Keep in mind — many/most of us will not like O’Mara because his defense is nearly impossible and will fully contradict what’s rational. He’s got one of the most challenging jobs on the planet right now and I don’t pity him at all (other than the eventual payday).”
     ================================================

     There’s not a whole lot that’s so unique about this case, other than the media deeming it “A High Profile Case”. Had it not been for Reverends Sharpton and Jackson, nobody would have even cared besides those who knew Trayvon.

     Why didn’t the Nation, the world hear about Sherman Ware? Most likely because the reverends were not made aware of that SPD cover-up, therefore, not involved. And perhaps those who were involved, such as Natalie Jackson, did not feel the reverends assistance was needed.

     The state of Florida has a long string of cases of unarmed folks, particularly African American males, who were shot or murdered by non-African Americans, LEO’s, and now “wannabe cops”, and the Feds are still hot on the state of Florida’s back. That’s why I keep saying it will be a long time coming before the DOJ shares any results regarding SPD. Of course, it sure would nice if they could share some information sooner.

     Any of us would expect a defense lawyer to provide the best defense possible for us or our loved ones. I just don’t think O’Mara’s providing the best defense possible for his client. He volunteered to take the case for free, nobody forced him. His client’s name was already well known before he took the case, so I guess he took the case to make a name for himself, and perhaps a “Big Pay Day”.

     We’ve spent a lot of time digging up dirt on his client, and people connected to his client, but nobody’s talking about O’Mara’s past failure of financial responsibility. Maybe he’s turned a new leaf in that regard.

     While many may not like the fact that he has a Pay-Pal account, I agree with Ms. Corey, it’s still the confessed murderer’s money, and O’Mara can’t take any credit for the money raised. In fact, it seems as though the donations are coming in more slowly since his involvement in the case. Perhaps his decision to bring Don West aboard will change that.

     Jose Baez thought the CA trial was going to bring him a “Big Pay Day”, he’s still waiting. The chances of striking a “Big Pay Day” for defending a confessed murderer are slimmer than winning the Florida Lottery. In cases such as the OJ trial, most of the members of the legal teams were already financially set, and would have been so regardless of the outcome of the trial.

     T. G.

229. NLME,

     “I actually like how O’Mara has handled things — at least publicly — to date. Meaning, in the few interviews I’ve seen of his, he seems sane.”

     ==============================================
     During an interview on AC360, O’Mara stated, ‘I’m the only one with the skillset to address this case better than most people I know”, “That sounds really egotistical,” he said. Ya think? (LOL!!! Big Time!). Maybe he just doesn’t know many people.

     He also admitted, “there will be benefits, including having a very big national audience for his courtroom performance.” He went on to say, “I can’t deny the fact that everyone out there seems to think this is going to have future benefits for me”, “I’m a businessman,” O’Mara said. (translation, I’m not in this for my client’s benefit, it’s all about me.)

     He was actuallly dumb enough to do this interview on AC 360 the day or night BEFORE he told the judge about the large sums of money in his clients Pay-Pal account. I’m thinking the judge would’ve been the first person he told before going public with any acknowledgments. But that’s just me, and you think he’s sane, okay, he might be. This is the same guy who wanted a $15,000 bond i.e. $1,500 for his client who’s charged with 2nd degree murder of an unarmed child.

     O’Mara didn’t inform the judge of the Pay-Pal account funds because he was so honest and sane. His goal was to CYA, and make sure he got paid, AFTER offering to defend his client for free (definitely not a person who honors his word, jmho). I couldn’t believe he told the judge, btw, I charge $400 per hour, under the pretense of coming forward about the Pay-Pal account, but didn’t have the decency to call the judge the second he found out.

     Four hundred dollars per hour may be the going rate for someone with O’Mara’s “skillset”, but it’s below the going rate for a good defense trial lawyer handling a 2nd degree murder case. I think the smartest decision O’Mara has made to date was to bring on co-counsel, Donald West who’s well known as a very sharp and skillful trial lawyer.

     When folks say “sharp”, “top notch”, “skillful”, Roy Black comes to my mind. He is one of Florida’s most popular lawyers. He handled the rape trial of William Kennedy, yes, that Kennedy family. He is currently handling the case of Polo Mogul, John Goodman. He charges around $1,800 per hr., give or take a grand or 2, and even he loses some cases.

     T. G.

230. NLME.

     Oooops! I apologize. Instead of saying “During an interview on AC360”, in the first line of my last post to you, I meant to say, During an interview with By Rene Stutzman of The Orlando Sentinel staff.

     NLME, I’ve been remiss in thanking you for fixing my typos. Just want to say, THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! YOU’RE THE BEST!

     http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/05/09/profile-zimmermans-attorney-rising

     The judge most likely already knew about the Pay-Pal account and was simply giving them enough rope to hang themselves. We still haven’t heard the last of the Pay-Pal account. There still needs to be some type of forensic accounting to make sure the account is not being used as a vehicle for laundering money. Why do you think Judge Lester lashed out at O’Mara so harshly? Maybe he was just pretending to be po’d.

     Yet, I still don’t understand why Judge Lester didn’t postpone the hearing after the issue of the Pay-Pal account came up. At that point, I thought for sure he was going to re-schedule the bond hearing; order O’Mara, and the Zimmerman family to submit financial proof of the current amount held in the account before deciding on the bond.

     I thought he would have at least supoenaed Robert, Jr., or whichever “brother-in-law” Shellie was referring to that was overseeing the account. Also, seems like O’Mara would have done the same if he was truly trying to maintain the integrity and transparency of the process. I’m sure there’s a reasonable explanation why neither of them didn’t adjourn the bond hearing and re-schedule it.

     And never mind the fact that these accounts were never approved by the State of Florida prior to them soliciting donations. In other words, they were illegally soliciting. Again, perhaps he was just giving the defense enough rope to hang themselves.

     I must say, it’s going to be rather intersting to watch this trial as the judge gets re-introduced to some of his former defendants. I just think the writing is already on the wall, jmho.

     O’Mara on AC360
     http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/26/acd.01.html

     T. G.

     • Why would Florida have to approve solicitation on the internet? Were Martin’s funds approved?

       • what Martin funds are you talking about? I am confused because I have yet to see how dead teen Trayvon Martin could have funds that need to be disclosed. Is Trayvon on trial for murder?

231. Something just dawned on me after watching the young Austin’s testimony. Some of the news reports say that he supported Zimmerman’s story about Trayvon being on top just before the shots were heard, but this is not the case.

     The boy was a distance away and could only hear screaming. He said he only saw one person on the ground. If two people are wrestling and one is on top, a person at the distance would only be able to see the one on top, not the one on the bottom. He said he saw red. He would not have been able to see anyone wearing red on the bottom if he thought he saw “only one person on the ground.”

     I don’t know if anyone else has come to this conclusion.

     • That’s correct. Actually, it took John (wit 6) seconds to realize that someone was under TM. Per his testimony, he 1st saw someone wearing black, and then saw someone under wearing white or red.
       Wit 19 too saw just one person from outside her back porch at 2821 RVC.
       So, it is very likely that Austin saw Trayvon rather than George.

     • good point…perhaps there were two people he saw but he didn’t realise it at the time

     • T. G.

       Hi diaryofasuccessfulloser,

       Yes, and I agree. I never watched the video of witness #14 which is located on this blog, (Post #124) however, I did notice the heading on the top left hand side it which reads:

       “SECOND WITNESS CONFIRMS TRAYVON WAS THE ATTACKER”.

       The title alone, gave me the impression I was following an anti-Trayvon Martin blog, however I now know that’s not the case.

       It’s been awhile since I read the story, but I remember the shock when read:

       “.. he only saw one person, A MAN IN A RED SHIRT who was on the ground.

       Witness #14 never told the interviewer he thought the person “screaming and crying for help ”was the confessed murder. The deliberate mis-representation in the Orlando Sentinel about Zimmerman being attacked by the victim is clearly a lie and conjecture on the part of the OS reporter, Rene Sultzman. Witness #14 stated he believes it was Trayvon crying and screaming for help.

       Witness #14 never told the dispatcher what color anybody was wearing, and the never dispatcher asked him what color anybody was wearing. One thing that did catch my attention was the dispatcher asked him if he knew the victim. I noticed the dispatchers never asked the other callers that question.

       I just can’t shake this thought that witness #14 might have been carrying a flashlight with him as he walked his dog. I’m also thinking one of the flashlights placed into evidence could be his. If true, he might have seen more than we realize, and is just too afraid and traumatized to share more of what he might know.

       I read an article where his mother said he was receiving counseling as a result of the murder. Think about it, this is a child, yet he’s shown more courage than some of the adult witnesses have shown. I’m just thankful to God he made it back inside his home safely. I don’t even want to think about what could have happened to him if his dog hadn’t got off the leash.

       I understand Det. Serino wanted to arrest the confessed murderer the same night, and applaud his efforts. The $64 question is why was Det. Serino so determined to make sure witnesses believed the person screaming and crying for help wore red and was the confessed murder? I’ll post my theory in a separate post.

       911 Calls
       http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-grio/46771333/#46771333

       http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117219/Trayvon-Martin-shooting-Mother-claims-George-Zimmerman-killed-son-skin-colour.html

       T. G.

232. …actually his statement, not testimony. The young witness.

233. The craziest thing happened to me tonight as I was walking home from work. I get out of work around 11ish at night. As I was on my way home, I observed a car light flashing behind me. The car seemed to be driving slow so I stopped. This man popped his head out of the window and began talking. I could not hear what it was that he was saying because I had my music on but I intially felt that it was some dude trying to flirt with me. I gave him a WTF look and he still kept running his mouth. The look on his face was menacing. At that point, I could feel that I was not in a situation where a man was just flirting (not that it is acceptable at 11 pm when I am walking by myself!). I moved onto the sidewalk to get away from the car and although I could not hear what this bitch and his friend was saying I could hear that they were laughing. I got so angry that I yelled, “What the fuck do you want?! Drive off bitch!” They slowly drove off laughing. I had walked home in the dark plenty of times and have experienced some scary things. I can definetly understand how Trayvon must have felt in the last moments of his precious life. I wasn’t in fear but I was confused (which is why I didn’t call 911). Once I arrived home, I started to feel afraid because I realized that things could have gotten ugly. I started crying because I felt so overwhelmed that I was alone and defenseless against two (possibly more) grown ass men.I thank God that I made it home safe.

234. Folks,

     I need help concerning Wit 18. She is the one who went on AC360 and who stayed 14min with dispatcher on the night of TM’s killing.

     Based on her 911 call alone. I have assumed that she lives right across the back path from John’s (wit 6). But, last week, whonoze told me that she actually leaves in the building north of the T. So, I have decided to challenge my initial assumption by digging a bit.

     I had some email exchange with Jeralyn from talkleft. She told me that wit #18 leaves at 3021 RVC. She told me that that information was given out with an unedited version of her 911 call.
     So, I did my home work and could find who that person is. Her profile (age, gender, profession) matches perfectly with what we know of Wit #18. So, I’m ready to accept 3021 RVC as the location of wit #18.

     However, I still need to understand how on hearth, she could see and hear with such high details the crime scene. The detailed information she’s been able to tell dispatcher i her 911 call is what made me think she lived in 2851 RVC. That address is owned by a business and could have been rented to the Teacher. Here are key words taken out of her 911 call:

     “I don’t know what is happening. Someone is lying on the ground.” [1:20]

     “I see out my back window, sidewalk, grass, something is really bad. ” [1:55]

     “Oh, my God! He shot, he shot the person. He just said he shot the person [2:28].”

     “I’m just scared. [inaudible] I can’t… I can’t even breathe. […] the other person. Oh, my god, a young boy” [4:00]

     “Oh my god! There comes another… I think it’s another police officer. It started at my window. I mean, it’s like 12 feet away. I mean it’s like 10 feet of my window.” [4:50]

     ####

     OKay, I can understand that the Teacher has a poor notion of time and space. That’s possible right! So, the 10 feet she talks about can actually be 20 yards.
     But, how could she hear GZ telling Officer Timothy Smith that he shot someone? And, how could she see that the body in the grass was that of a young boy?

     In comparison 3021 RVC is as remote from the crime scene than 2821 RVC (wit #19) and is further way from the crimes scene than 2831 RVC. I don’t think that any witness besides John noticed TM was a young boy. I don’t think that any witness besides #12 & 13 heard GZ saying that he shot someone.

     Finally, if someone could see and hear such details from 3021 RVC, what about the people in 3031 RVC & 3041 RVC. They should have a better view.

     ###
     Comment and ideas are welcome.

     • I noticed the same thing and guessed she’d have to be upstairs and/or using binoculars?

       Do we know where Zimmerman was apprehended? If near the T/keychain flashlight feet from her house, was she repeating what was overheard by witnesses, responding officers, Zimmerman, etc.?

       I meant to listen to the call again but got sidetracked — Do you have a link to her call?

       • 9@NLME
         I think the teacher will make a good witness but I too would like to know exactly where she lives. When she was talking about 10 feet I got the impression that she was talking about GZ and the SPD walking in front of her window doing something, but I got the impression the shooting was more like about 50 to 60 feet away but it’s hard to tell

         911 calls below

         .

         http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained

       • I have my own copies of the calls. I can email them to you.
         She is upstairs in her bedroom according to her testimony. However, wit #19 also went hiding upstairs to her bedroom. She definitely can’t see and hear as much as the Teacher. Same for Selma & Mary who ended up hiding upstairs.
         I know Wit #12 could see her husband (wit #13) talking with zimmerman. That may place GZ between 2861 RVC & 1211 TTL or near the T. This is also consistent with Wit #13’s statement that he saw GZ coming toward him.
         At what point in her 911 call she seems to be repeating what GZ said to officer T. Smith that is that he shot the kid. So, she definitely is capable of hearing what is going on.
         Binoculars would indeed help though we will never know for sure unless she tells it for sure.
         Finally, if she could witness the events in such good detail, we have to expect more witnesses from nearby townhouses

       • I recall maybe reading that GZ was trying to leave the scene of the crime to the north when apprehended by the officer.

       • I think that she may provide the confirmation that he moved things around at the crime scene. Remember she says that he got up and walked up closer to her and she was able to identify that he was hispanic? Interesting. I need to listen again to her statements.

       • I did float the idea he may have fleeting thought to run. Obviously that idea wouldn’t have lasted long, with everyone coming outside right away.

         The one witness who hears him saying he shot the kid, hears him saying “The gun is on the ground, the gun is on the ground”.

         So somewhere along the line he picked up and holstered that gun, because the police got it out of his waistband.

         Wit#18 says “Oh, my god, a young boy” a minute and a half after saying “he just said he shot the person”.. So the young boy bit would be when the police got there and turned Trayvon over. She could have seen then. Or heard someone else saying it’s just a kid for god’s sake.

         GZ said several times he shot someone, both to witnesses and the police. So she may have heard one of those statements.

         The most significant I think is her saying “It started at my window. I mean, it’s like 12 feet away….”. This fits with our idea now that the second argument happened up near the T, before TM tried to run away back down the centre path.

         But I did see on a pro-GZ blog, don’t have it now, using this witness to “show” the argument first started halfway from the T to GZ’s vehicle along the top path.

         I wish the interrogators wouldn’t keep interrupting DeeDee to double check details, and let her just say everything that was said, “relevant” or not. That’s the only way we’d get some sort of timeline on how much time elapsed between the various supposedly relevant things TM said. That’s the only way to pace out how far up the path he could have been when he first challenged GZ about following him.

     • @Tchoupi

       If I’m right others say the teacher lives somewhere around G29 on the map below but the thing that bothers me is she said that the SPD and the EMT’s were parked right in front of her house. The original witness map just makes more sense to me, that would have them parked at about J33 and the teacher at K31 on the map below but she could have meant the left of her and not in front I suppose.

       

       • I’m pretty sure I mentioned that I agreed with your original analysis that the teacher lives on the east retreat view circle side based on the fact that in her statement she said she saw the police from her FRONT window. I can’t find my own comment now, but I think jeralyn’s info is wrong and your initial analysis and conclusions are correct. I erroneously relied on jeralyn’s info before, but revisited the recorded calls and statements. The only way for jeralyn’s info is correct (and I have found NOTHING to back up his/her claims of w-18’s addressed being released to the public) is if w-18 mistakenly said in her statement that she saw the police cars out her FRONT window when she meant to say her BACK window. Otherwise, the police had to be parked from I-34 to D-31 in order for w-18 to see the cars from her FRONT window.

         If W-18 is where you first indicated she is — across from John (W-6), she could see the police cars from her front window at I-34 very easily and still see what she gave statement to regarding Zimmerman and the “young boy” that got shot from her back window.

     • tchoupi:
       As it was after dark, what any of the witnesses could see has much less to do with distance than with lighting. I believe W1 (2841 RVC) says her porch light was on, because it’s always on, but she wasn’t aware of any others besides that. And when you listen closely to several of the 911 calls, it appears that the callers respond to things they see AFTER the persons with flashlights arrive. The Teacher, for example, could only identify who was on top by shape, silhouette and movement. She says the guy who got up had to be the one on top, because there wasn’t enough movement to indicate a reversal of position after the gunshot. This is something a person could make out in dim lighting. She doesn’t see GZ until he stands up and turns away, which would put his face more in her direction and more illuminated by the porch light. Also, Mr. Manolo may have been pointing his flashlight at GZ at that time, and moments later Ofc. Smith probably had his light directed at GZ, as GZ surrendered. Now doubt, either Manolo or Smith also pointed their lights at the body. It was not long after Smith took GZ into custody that Ofc. Ricardo Ayala arrived and began attempting to revive TM. To do so, he would have turned the body over, and he or someone assisting would have pointed a light at TM, revealing his apparent youthfulness to onlookers.

       Her window is just less than 30 yards from where the body was found, which is about the distance between the sideline to the far hashmark on a football field, or the distance between backboards on a college basketball court.

       As far as what someone is able to hear, that depends on several factors, including whether or not they are a line of sight or around a corner, how much background noise is present at the listening position (e.g. is their TV on), and the acoustics created by the environment. The buildings in The Retreat are set pretty close together, so they could help channel sound, or create distracting echoes. There’s really no way to know without going there and doing tests. Distance can matter, but its not determinitive by any means. Again, since the Teacher is describing things as they occur, and is being careful not to state assumptions as truth (e.g. “There’s another gentleman with a flashlight, i don’t know if it’s a policeman though”), I would assume that if she said reported something being said, she was hearing well enough to understand it clearly, whatever the physics.

       • And the teacher reported what she heard and saw prior to news reports.

       • Whonoze,

         Don’t get me wrong. I’m now convinced the Teacher leaves at 3021 RVC. As I said, the person living there has the right profession and her profile matches the one given in the initial police report. I even have found a picture of her that she posted on a website and it matches the initial report description as well as the shadow of her profile she showed on AC360.

         Now, I can buy into the fact that she didn’t actually saw that the body was that of a boy but rather heard it from LEO or other witnesses gathering around the crime scene.

         I have always considered the teacher as the main witness after DeeDee. Now, I see cracks in what she can really bring as a witness. She is probably not a good eyewitness but seems to be still a good ear-witness with a poor sense of time and space (no one is perfect).

         In any case, positioning her to 3021 RVC may change my understanding of the events.

235. 5 “Stand Your Ground” Cases You Should Know About

236. See How Quickly “Stand Your Ground” Spread Nationwide

     2011 New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin join the list. Nationwide, between 2005 and 2010, justifiable homicides by civilians using firearms doubled in states with the laws, while falling or remaining about the same in states lacking them. READ MORE

     • Here in PA, they frame it as an “Extended Castle Doctrine.” Until this case, I had no idea that PA had SYG Law. I bet most PA residents do not know either. Sigh.

       • I bet the ones who conceal carry do though. They’re the ones who feel they really need to be armed at all times “just n case”.

       • My guess is the worse people will be the first to find out. That doesn’t portend much good for anyone else at all. Just wait until someone who doesn’t die, wakes up in the hospital to discover that the shooter had a right, because they were scared by the victim reaching into his pocket, waistband etc.

       • Here’s one in Texas — killer convicted of murder:

         http://newsok.com/houston-jury-convicts-neighbor-in-texas-stand-your-ground-case/article/3684251

237. 6:01 into this youtube video, witness #3 states that she saw a guy in handcuffs with a hoodie on. wth?

     • Witness 3 saw the white shirt and the guy in handcuffs with a hoodie on.

       She also says she assumed the guy with the gun is NOT a good person and that’s why she called 9-1-1. The shot went off while she was on the phone. Something is still askew that the State knows that we don’t.

       They had Witness 3 reenact things (I think). We’re missing something that the state has an understanding of.

       • “Something is still askew that the State knows that we don’t.”

         What are your thoughts?

         • W3 is giving her personal info when the shot goes off, so it’s in the redaction silence near the beginning of the call. You can hear the change in vocal tone though. She’s calm and matter of fact before that, and after, in response to the laconic 911 operator saying “Is that what you’re at?” she replies in an agitate tone “Yes.hurry. There was just a gunshot! Hurry up!”. Given the reported start times of the call, the redaction silence also matches the time we actually hear the shot in W11’s call. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a58plIcrdo

       • @NMLE –

         “What are your thoughts?”

         I think Witness 3 saw the gun drawn. I think witness 6 recanted his MMA story because he failed to notice the gun drawn until asked and he had to rethink what he *actually saw* absent any bias he had first assumed and had sought to dismiss unconscionably.

         • Jeez is Witness #3’s account sloppy, right?

           Is her 911 call public yet? Though YouTube is (obviously) owned by Google, their app doesn’t have the best search (understatement) so I’m striking out while trying to locate it.

           The investigators don’t press Witness #3 AT ALL like they did “John.” Why did he get put through the wringer while she didn’t have to do much explaining? Makes me think investigators REALLY want to know EXACTLY what “John” saw.

           Note: These are the only 2 witness accounts I’ve listened to so far. 😦

       • “Witness 3 saw the white shirt and the guy in handcuffs with a hoodie on.”

         Could it be possible the EMT’s put a towel or something on GZ’s head to stop the bleeding and that;s what #3 saw? It probably would look white like his red coat did. Just a thought.

       • Is she saying that she saw the gun?

       • jim i think she saw the white t-shirt before the shot, before the police and emts arrived. She was shocked that no one in the incident was wearing a white tshirt because when she had looked out that was the one distinct thing she saw but i’m pretty sure that was before the shot went off.

       • Sorry jo, I don’t think I put it right. I was just trying to come up with a answer for the confusing statement #3 made at 6;01 “Because the guy in the handcuffs had a hoodie on, that’s what really confused me.” I know all she saw was white before the shot but I’m not sure if GZ’s coat still looked white to her when he was in handcuffs but she did think she saw GZ with a hoodie on and I was just wondering if maybe the EMT’s put something on GZ’s head like a towel or something that looked like a hoodie to her. That’s the only thing I could come up with for such a strange statement. Just a guess.

     • Also.. This witness confirms a gun was drawn at least 15 seconds before the gunshot which was captured on her 9-1-1 call.

       • Yikes — I need to (and will) listen to Witness #3’s statement ASAP. She was the witness yelling at Jeremy, correct? And, her call is the only one where the fatal shot is heard?

         • Nevermind — this doesn’t sound like the lady who was yelling at Jeremy during her call.

           WTF? I’ve officially reached information overload. Is Witness 3’s call – with a gunshot heard (?!?) – somewhere on YouTube?

       • @NMLE –

         No. This is not the HOA lady. This is the 30 y/o next to John. The HOA lady was in the corner house next to John yelling at Jeremy. This Witness 3 person seems to be the house next to John if you were in John’s back yard and headed one door back door south of John’s back door.

     • Another also..

       This witness heard screaming before the gunshot(s).

     • Thank you!!! Do you know of any other witness statements on YouTube?

     • I agree, WTH, very odd. But the guy on top had a white T shirt on may very well be GZ. John, witness #6 would keep saying in his interview the guy on bottem had a light sweater or top on and then he would say or red top on. I swear he only says red because he saw it after the fact when the cop put a light on GZ, before that it looked light or white and just maybe the tables turned when John wasn’t looking and witness #3 saw GZ on top and in control as John put it. They may have flip flopped a lot before the shot. It looks to me it’s one for one #6 GZ on bottem #3 TM on bottem.

       Just a guess…………..Thanx for the video BTW

       • “John” (Witness #6) and the 30 year old (Witness #3) are the only ones saying there was a white tshirt, correct? They are subsequently next door neighbors (thank you for clarifying Witness #3’s location CommonSenseForChange).

         “John” mentioned in his witness statement how the neighbors (understandably) spoke after the shooting. Assuming Witness #3 and #6 knew each other well and spoke often as next door neighbors, this could explain how both of their witness accounts suggest there was a white tshirt involved.

         The most important part of Witness #3’s (pretty worthless) account in my opinion — seeing a white tshirt on top before the shooting. But, shortly after making this statement, Witness #3 doubts a person in a white tshirt could be the shooter since Zimmerman was wearing black/red.

         W.T.F?!?

       • @NLME

         I believe they both saw light/white then John saw black/red after the shot and got confused and then like you say, talked to #3 and confused her. John always says light first in his interview. I believe GZ’s coat looked white to them at least the red part and his shirt under it.

       • I also think white tee shirt guy (if he even exists) is George Zimmerman as we saw on the surveillance of hin walking into the police station once the police video was released. His light colored shirt was seen on the tape, but Trayvon Martin’s hoodie and the shirt under his hoodie both had bullet wounds indicating Trayvon Martin’s under garments were not exposed and there was no opportunity for witnesses to see the undergarment’s color regardless of hoodie style because the bullet holes penetrated both the hoodie and the under garment.

     • That’s correct, Wit 3 is “white t-shirt”. She is John’s neighbor living right south from him.
       The reason why she did not caught Police attention is that she quickly went hiding into the front bedroom missing most of the event. This is also why she saw T. Smith coming in TTL seconds in her call.
       However, she saw a white t-shirt as john did making 2 people.
       She may have seen the gun too. After all, she called just a few seconds before the gunshot. That would put GZ on top of TM right before the shot.
       Good point

238. JUST IN…..

     ABOUT 3:00 P.M. TODAY SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN WAS ARRESTED FOR PERJURY.

     T. G.

     • Yes, I was wondering when this would come. You have to wonder whether they are trying to offer her some sort of deal to come clean about something. She moved the car and would know if he left the house with gun in holster or if he put it on before leaving the car to pursue. It just seems odd that a person would arm themselves before heading to target.

       http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/os-george-zimmerman-wife-arrested-20120612,0,3140001.story

       • Thank you! Added to the Update section. I’m sure Shellie had a few chances to come clean. Even if she did come clean though, I’m confident the prosecution would still go after her for straight up lying under oath.

         People that carry concealed weapons take (weird) pride totting their guns wherever allowed — just in case something “bad” happens of course.

         Worth noting: I’ve never met a concealed weapons holder that I’d want protecting me if something “bad” did happen. Think: Walter from “The Big Lebowski.” Yes, I’m sure there are some exceptions to this unfair generalization – meaning, concealed weapon holders that are even tempered and well trained – but, I’ve just personally never met one.

       • San San B,

         Shellie also told the court that she could/would make sure there were no guns in the house, and that her husband complied with all the bond requirements, i.e. no illegal drugs, alcohol, curfew, etc.

         She testified during the bond hearing that she was no longer living with her husband and had not seen him, so how was she going to babysit him and make sure he didn’t violate any of the court orders?

         And what about Shellie’s gun?

         Maybe it’s just me, but the confessed murderer’s most recent mugshot seems to have a little smirk there round his mouth. Now Shellie’s mugshot, girlfriend looks like somebody interrupted her hair appointment. She looks as though she’s ready to betch slap somebody.

         T. G.

     • Thank you! Added to the Update section. I wonder if Shellie Zimmerman has a fundraising site set-up yet?

       • And here’s the Orlando Sentinel’s article on Mrs. Zimmerman’s arrest: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-wife-arrested-20120612_1_perjury-charge-prosecutors-deputies

     • Just read about it, too. Here’s the capias:

       Click to access Shellie-capias.pdf

239. Oh, I forgot to mention she posted a $1,000 bond.

     T. G.

240. I hope that this was worth it for her. Sadly, even if they don’t convict him she may actually be in for a whole lot more time than he… I found the following on eHow.com:

     Any perjury committed in an official proceeding is tried as a third-degree felony in Florida. If the official proceeding involves a capital crime, then the perjury is redesignated as a second-degree felony, which carries stiffer penalties. An offical proceeding is defined by state law as “a proceeding heard … before any legislative, judicial, administrative, or other governmental agency or official authorized to take evidence under oath, including any referee, general or special magistrate, administrative law judge, hearing officer, hearing examiner, commissioner, notary, or other person taking testimony or a deposition in connection with any such proceeding.”

     Third-degree felonies are punishable in Florida by up to five years in prison and $5,000. Second-degree felonies carry possible penalties of 15 years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

     Read more: Perjury Laws In Florida | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6754503_perjury-laws-florida.html#ixzz1xdfAROsb

     It’s a second degree felony for her!

     • San San B,

       And let’s not forget the federal charges they may be facing as a result of the multiple $9,999 or $9,000 transactions. (smh).

       They literally turned the legal fund account into a shell game that they thought nobody was paying attention to you. Paying BigBox Stores and AmX Credit Cards. What were they thinking?

       There’s just something that’s not quite right about the entire family.

       T. G.

241. NLME,

     I just posted this to you a few days ago. I’m not sure if this is what you’re referring to in POST #237, but I’ll re-post it again.

     =========================================

     Sleuth Says:

     June 8, 2012 at 8:23 pm
     “No Longer Mass Emailing” Says:

     May 27, 2012 at 6:19 pm
     That’s right — all I had to do was look at Tchoupi’s map. Ugh!

     

     Looks like she’s next door neighbors with “John.” Does anybody know what “John” was wearing that night?

     Correct me if I’m wrong but the 30 year old was the only one that said she saw somebody wearing a white tshirt until “John’s” witness recording, correct?
     =================================================

     MY REPLY:

     Yes, you’re correct. Once FDLE and Florida’s SAO interviewed him, he placed emphasis on a LIGHTER color shirt. I’ve extracted their statements specific to the color of clothing and posted them below.

     FEBRUARY 26, 2012, Witness #3

     A 30yo w/m female (witness #3) told the 911 dispatcher “the man on top was wearing a WHITE T-SHIRT”. I don’t think she was ever interviewd by a detective on the night of the murder.

     MARCH 19, 2012. 3:19 pm

     On 3/19/12, she told John Batchelor, Special Agent, FDLE and Jim Post, SAO 18th judicial, she was confused about the color of the shirt, and states to the 2 gentlemen, “There was no guy in a white shirt, was there? (seeking confirmation or denial).

     This may be due to media coverage, information on the internet, etc. that showed pictures of what the confessed murderer was wearing (red jacket w/some black, with light colored shirt underneath) and public descriptions of what Trayvon was wearing.

     Despite the admission she might be confused, she adamantly states to the gentlemen , “…cause it was obvious, it’s the only thing that poped, there was no other color”(referring to the white t-shirt).

     To the best of my recollection, she stated she was too afraid to go outside, but instead, she called her family, her mom. To me, this is an indication that she never went outside to see what anybody was wearing, hence, not having any influence or preconceived notions to confuse her observations.

     *Note: It’s been reported the confessed murderer’s jacket was wet, and had grass/grass stains on it. Some of us don’t see grass/grass stains on it on any of the media dump photos (maybe somebody washed them off with Gain detergent? LOL!!!)

     Perhaps witness #3 says it was a WHITE t-shirt because the confessed murderer removed his jacket and threw or placed it on the wet ground before the alleged scuffle?

     FEBRUARY 26, 2012, Witness #6, 911 Call

     Now Mr. OMG! Holy Smoke! w/m, (witness #6), never told the 911 dispatcher what the person on the top or bottom was wearing or what color they were wearing.

     FEBRUARY 26, 2012, 9:09 pm, Witness #6, Interview w/SPD

     Witness #6 told SPD lead detective, Chris Serino:

     1. Hispanic guy with a red sweat shirt on the ground yelling for help.
     2. Yes, that was the one getting beat up, and he was the one with the red sweater on.*

     *Witness #6 says this in response to Det. Serino asking, “The person calling for help, could that have been the person underneath, you think?

     FEBRUARY 27, 2012

     The day after the murder, witness #6 hid behind his front door while speaking with a reporter using only the name “John”. He told the reporter the person on the bottom wore a RED SWEATER. Witness #6 might have spoken with the news reporter who is said to have been on the crime scene shortly after police arrived.

     The description of the red shirt/sweater starts to morph after the interview with Det. Serino and news reporter, or actually AFTER the State agents and FDLE investigators start asking the right questions.
     Perhaps he was influenced by Det. Serino.

     MARCH 20, 2012, 6:10 pm

     “John”, witness #6, interview with John Batchelor, Special Agent, FDLE and Jim Post, SAO 18th judicial.

     These are some of the statements made by witness #6 regarding what color the person on the bottom was wearing.

     1. The man on the bottom had on a LIGHT COLOR SHIRT or sweatshirt with some red in it.

     2. I could see a man in a LIGHTER color shirt on the bottom.

     3. Then I noticed a guy in a LIGHTER color shirt or sweat shirt, whatever he was wearing. I think it was a red color or white color.

     4. A lighter color shirt with some red on it, but it was white, a red or white shirt.

     5. I could see a man in a LIGHTER color shirt on the bottom straddling…

     MARCH 3/26/12

     Witness #6 tells Bernie de la Rionda, he’s nervous, the interviews have been stressful.

     Tina Taylor, one of our fellow commenters, is so right. Witness #6, John, is just too exhausting. I’ll sure be glad when he gets a story and sticks with it

     T. G.

     • Thank you. I def saw your response — as always, thank you — but everything is blurring together for me worse than ever now.

       Is there a 911 call out there for Witness #3? Like “John” – who apparently “misspoke” by over a minute – the 30 year old says she was on the phone with 911 when the shot went off.

       If that’s true, I’d like to hear her reaction to a gunshot being fired while on the line.

       • NLME,

         Yes, there is a 911 call for witness #3. I’ve posted the link below. I believe she saw what she saw, and don’t think she’s confused at all. I just think she was just messing with the investigators.

         She told them “it’s the only thing that popped, there was no other color”. When someone says something “Popped”, especially in reference to a color, they mean it really stood out.

         I strongly believe the confessed murderer took his jacket off in preparation for whatever brief struggle might have occurred. That light grey shirt he’s wearing under the jacket could easily appear as white in the dark area. Sort of like females taking their earrings or high heels before a cat fight.

         NLME, we’ve all been affected deeply by this horrible crime on some level, and I know it’s affected you too. Don’t sweat it if you forget to say thank you. We all forget sometimes, it simply means we’re human. One thing I know for sure is that we know you appreciate all of our comments and assistance. You’re cool in my book (smile).

         http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-grio/46771333/#46771333

         T. G.

       • NLME,

         I apolgize. I forgot to mention, the screaming and cries for help, and the gunshot are not heard on the 911 call placed by witness #3, at least I didn’t hear any of that. But witness #3 does tell the dispatcher she hears screaming, yelling for help, or words to the effect, and the gun shot.

         But it can be heard in the 911 call placed from the household of Ms. HOA, witness #2, the woman who repeatedly calls Jeremy’s name, witness #13.

         Witness #1 and witness #2 are sisters. They each make reference to the other in the interviews done by FDLE and the SAO. They sound a lot alike.

         Put another way, we have at least 3 witnesses living in the same household.

         Hope this helps some.

         T. G.

       • @Sleuth –

         The calls *are* heard on the 9-1-1 call made by witness #3 (white tee-shirt lady). We don’t hear them because they were redacted. At the axiomamnesia site (actual link should not be posted per NLME), you can look for the witness statements and their audio/video. Look for her 12 minute interview with FDLE.

         @2:35 in the tape she says

         “… then I got scared because it’s like the next house over, behind me. And, I was like well, I’m assuming the guy with the gun is not a good person. You know what I mean.”

         She goes on to say at 2:55 she says

         “… and then while I was on the phone with the lady, the dispatcher, um, I heard the gun go off”.

         Give it a listen when you can. There was no white tee-shirt guy, but she is the one who saw the color pop in the night.

       • @NLME-

         I wonder if some of us are confusing Police Tape #3 with Witness #3? The police originally released the 9-1-1 tapes in no particular order and so the tape numbers don’t map to the witness numbers.

242. NLME,

     YOUR POST OF May 27, 2012 at 6:19 pm

     Looks like she’s next door neighbors with “John.” Does anybody know what “John” was wearing that night? Correct me if I’m wrong but the 30 year old was the only one that said she saw somebody wearing a white tshirt until “John’s” witness recording, correct?

     ============================================
     NLME,

     I also posted this to you a few days ago. According to witness #1 statements to FDLE and the SAO, 18th judicial, it appears as though witness #6, lives ACROSS from her, not next door.

     I so totally agree with you about the information overload, feeling it myself. It’s becoming quite a challenge trying to remember who did and said what., But somehow you did manage to respond to the replies I sent you. Thanks for the comps! (smile)

     MY REPLY TO ON: June 9, 2012

     During her interview with FDLE Special Agent, John Batchelor and Jim Post of the 18th judicial on 3/20/12, witness #1 was asked:

     “Do you know what he was wearing?” (referring to witness #6, “John”)

     She stated:

     “If I recall, it was something dark on the top, and it looked like sweat pants on the bottom, if I remember correctly.”

     The question was a result of them ascertaining which house was witness #6 house.

     She referred to witness #6 as her neighbor who lived across the street from her. She said his house was the one with the back porch screened in, and said his house was the 2nd house over, across from her.

     She also states she saw him when he came out and said, “Hey, what’s going on? I’m going to call 911?”

     So, I think she verifies at least that part of witness #6 story, and that he was not likely wearing a white t-shirt. BTW, she told them she doesn’t know him personally, but sees him coming and going from that house.

     T. G.

243. oohhh they’ve gone really nasty at Orlando Sentinel (surprise). A mixture of disgusting comments about Shellie’s appearance, and some who still insist on the “head bashing on pavement” story.

     But one interesting idea from their poster Polnck (just Search/find it n the page, don’t wade through all the garbage)

     “The prosecution will tell George Z that his perjuring wife Shelly Z is going to serve the full five years without any chance of parole. A confession from George Z stating that he used the N word on Trayvon Martin as a provocation to shoot him will get him 15 years. His wife will go free in exchange for that confession.”

     Interesting. But I rather fancy he’d not take a deal like that. I still think she’s more likely to turn State’s evidence to set herself free.

     Here is the surprisingly brief Florida statute about perjury
     http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0837/0837.html

     Not mentioned in it is a defense of Duress, claimed on a law site
     http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/perjury/florida/

     “Duress: The defendant must show that she committed perjury due to threat or coercion. To prove duress, the defendant must show an immediate or impending fear, or otherwise prove that she had reasonable grounds to fear the consequences of not making the false statement. ”

     (I don’t think fear of losing $100,000+ as a consequence would quite count…)

     Obviously, suborning perjury must break the law, too, but it’s not in that particular Statute.

     • Hi aussie,

       OoooWeee! Thanks!

       If that’s proven to be true about the “N” word, heck that’s a reason to provoke somebody to sucker punch you and whupp your arse!
       Dim der is fightin’ words fo sho. (smile)

       Like I said in one of my comments a few posts back, they may even be facing federal charges regarding the $9,999. I also mentioned in that post that I strongly sense some family friction, especially about the money.

       I heard Robert, Sr., Gladys, and the grandmother ended up temporarily renting rooms at the Roach and Bates motels because they didn’t have a whole lot of financial resources. What a shame. (smh)

       Now remember, Shellie did come clean during the bond hearing about the alleged threats made against them. She admitted to the DA that hadn’t received any. I was really surprised. However, it would not surprise me at all if she flips him.

       Sort of like Robert, Jr. telling Piers, “George said in order to save a life he had to save his own”, or words to that effect. I imagine Shellie saying, “Ain’t no need in both of us going down, so it might as well be you”.

       If I call correctly, Shellie told the courts her husband’s truck was paid off and she still had payments on her car. Wonder if he was still driving the black Dodge Durango mentioned in the SPD Call logs where he accused Shellie’s ex-boyfriend of tampering with his tires? I think it was black, it’s been about 2 months since I went over them.

       Thanks again aussie.

       T. G.

244. NMLE, Lonnie,

     I have emailed the witness map & summary.

245. Witness #3 is on this tape
     
     starting exactly a 9.00 but it is badly chopped around, as names/addresses are cut out of it. Gunshot seems to be in a blacked out section, when she’s giving her name.

     Can;’t for the life of me find one that’s not been cut.

     Sorry if this has already been posted. Most of the FDLE tapes can be easily found at
     http://www.youtube.com/user/manybuddies
     which is the channel listing for the person who posted them.

     • Oh and I forgot, Wit#3 is the one who saw a white T-shirt (around 12.18). She says this after the gunshot, but says she saw it before calling 911.

246. Legal Analyst, Bill Sheaffer, said he believes Shellie Zimmerman could face up to five years in prison if convicted.

     ==========================================
     I do believe there will be some consequences, but I think it’ll be much less than 5 years.

     T. G

     • Mrs. Zimmerman’s mug shot is… not exactly flattering…

       So here’s some totally ironic (meaning I don’t mean it), Martin case humor:

       Now we know why George turned himself when his bail was revoked and asked O’Mara not to schedule another bond hearing.
       Poor guy can’t catch a break.Just when he thought he had some time away from the ball and chain, to hang with the bros, she goes and gets herself arrested right after him.
       I’ll buy that for a penny!
       I hear she’s demanding conjugals.
       By the time he gets to trial, the jury may decide he’s suffered enough for his crimes and let him off with time served (or time serviced, if you will…).

       Again, I DON’T REALLY MEAN IT! (But if you come across any Shellie Zimmerman mug shots adapted into I Can Has Cheezburger form, post the links here, OK?)

       • whonoze,

         ROTFLMBO!!!! Too funny! Just too funny!

         She looks like somebody interrupted her hair appointment and she’s about to slap the mess out of the person who did.

         When I saw her mugshot, the thought did cross my mind, though brieflly, that she might have been at the crime scene. I thought, could this be the person responsible for the thin and small scratches on his face, and the pin head marks on the back of his?

         Could she have been the one who busted him upside the head? Sister looks like she don’t take no mess, and he knows it. That’s why he should have taken his arse on over to Target like she told him.

         I don’t believe any of us think this murder investigation is a laughing matter, because nothing could be further from the truth. But sometimes a little humor can relieve the emotional tensions surrounding this case.

         Thanks again whonoze, now I have coffee all over my pants from laughing too hard. But it was sooooo worth it. I needed that. (smile)

         T. G.

247. Oh and I found good enhanced photos showing the locations of the tagged/marked evidence items.
     
     and surrounding images. 3 images to the right is a series of measurements showing the precise locations, unfortunately not tagged, but easy to put together with the 2 main pix of the “debris” as the site owner calls it .

     After those (darn it, Flickr doesn’t number the photos in a set)
     

     there are 2 shots of young Austin, in relation to the major evidence items and the shooting location.

248. Does anyone have a link to the video of the law enforcement officer’s statement after the confessed killer’s first arrest? I can’t seem to find it but I’m trying to verify some information. I’m sure I did see it on TV after the arrest.

     • “Confessed killer” is the kind of emotionally charged word bending I’d expect from the “Saint George versus the drug thug” crowd.

       Are you talking about the undercover alcohol law cop?

       unitron

       • Sometimes the truth is emotionally charged. He has confessed to killing Trayvon. It works for me.

         No, I’m talking about the sheriff that processed him when he was arrested on April 11, 2012. Any hints?

       • I agree with unitron. Having spent time on pro-GZ forums where TM is always The Thug, (just so wrong to label people that way), the ‘confessed murderer’ label here honestly has made me feel uneasy. Yes, truth can be emotionally charged, but thinking you know THE TRUTH of this case is indefensible hubris.

       • princss6,

         You are so right, and I totally agree. He confessed to killing=murdering Trayvon Martin. “Confessed killer” and “Confessed murderer” works for me too.

         T. G.

249. Order regarding Discovery:

     Click to access SKMBT_363-V12061312310.pdf

     All orders related to trial:

     http://www.flcourts18.org/presspublic.html

250. HERE’S MORE FROM JAILHOUSE CONVERSATIONS

     On two such calls, on April 16, 2012, Shellie Zimmerman is present with the confessed murderer’s sister at the credit union when they discuss the transferring of money from his account.

     APRIL 16, 2012, 4 DAYS BEFORE BOND HEARING

     Call #18577856 @1426

     Defendant: In my account do I have at least $100?
     Shellie: No
     Defendant: How close am I?
     Shellie: There’s like $8. $8.60
     Defendant: So total everything how much are we looking at?
     Shellie: Um, like $155

     APRIL 16, 2012, 4 DAYS BEFORE BOND HEARING

     Call #18579780 @1632:

     Defendant: If the bond is $50, pay the 15. If it’s more than 15 just pay 10% to the bondsman.

     Shellie Z.: You don’t want me to pay $100?
     Defendant: Hell no.
     Shellie Z: All right just think about it.
     Defendant: I will.
     Shellie: That’s what it’s for.

     The credit union records further revealed that Shellie Zimmerman withdrew $18,000 in amounts of $9,000 two times, on April 16, 2012 from her account at the credit union.

     APRIL 19, 2012, 1 DAY BEFORE THE BOND HEARING

     On April 19. 2012, the confessed murderer and Shellie Zimmerman spoke on the telephone and talked about Shellie taking money from the safety deposit box.

     *Call #18608875 @09:36;

     Shellie: Yeah, I think I’m gonna go to the bank today and get more cash, too.
     Defendant: Okay.
     Shellie: And then I’m, I might take what I put in the box out also.
     Defendant: okay, well-
     Shellie: Or do you want me to leave it there?
     Defendant: Um.
     Shellie: It’s up to you. Ken was just saying I should probably have as much cash as possible.

     Defendant: That’s true, but I feel safer with the gift cards. Uh, and I don’t want you having too much on you, that, that, that’s
     Shellie: Mm, hmm
     Defendant: safey issue, you know
     She lie: Yeah, of course. I have, well, remember, I went—-
     Defendant: yeah–
     Shellie: to our other one and got that out.
     Defendant: Yep.
     Shellie: So, I have like $13, $15

     The Insight Credit Union records for the confessed murderer’s sister’s account reveal that more than $47,000 was transferred from the confessed murderer’s account to his sister’s account from April 16, 2012 to April 17, 2012.

     Note: The information in this post is not the entire transcript. The information posted here was taken from pages 3, 4, and 5 of the transcript.

     The transcript ends with the following:

     The facts mentioned in this Affidavit are not a complete recitation of all the pertinent facts and evidence in this case but only are presented for a determination of Probable Cause for Perjury.
     Signed June 11, 2012 By: Investigator T. C. O’Steen, Affiant

     T. G.

     • Even if you actually committed murder and are lying, saying that you killed someone in self-defense is an admission of homicide, but it is not an admission of murder.

       You don’t get to be the Red Queen talking to Alice and insist that words only mean what you want them to mean.

       Especially in a legal context.

       It was raining that night.

       Rain is precipitation.

       So is snow.

       Snow usually falls during the winter in this hemisphere.

       February is in the winter.

       That doesn’t mean I get to claim that it was snowing in Sanford that night.

       (although that would have provided some great footprint evidence).

       unitron

       • I think Zimmerman’s tracks in the rain (or snow…whatever) are really, really big.

       • onlyiamunitron,

         Huh?

       • To the best of my knowledge, blogs are not a “legal context”, but I hear what you’re saying. We probably should use the term “alleged murderer” instead of flat calling George Zimmerman a murderer.

         By the same “standards”, there were suspicious people committing crimes all over Florida that night, too, but George Zimmerman didn’t call in an “alleged suspicious person” to the police. He called in a black youth that had done NOTHING to him or any of his neighbors as the kid was “walking about looking at houses”.

         George Zimmerman doesn’t get to label a kid coming home from the store committing no crime as a suspicious character either. That dog don’t really hunt and most people are pissed about that mischaracterization of Trayvon Martin and the “alleged murderer’s” subsequent pursuit and killing of the kid.

       • Why don’t we just go back to saying GZ????

         Lot easier to type and no emotional charges…….and we ALL know who it is and why we’re talking about him.

     • Sleuth:
       I see what you did there:

       Defendant: safey issue, you know
       She lie: Yeah, of course. I have, well, remember, I went—-

       Or was that ‘l” dropped in the prepared transcript. BIAS! BIAS! BIAS! 🙂

       • whonoze,

         Freudian slip? Perhaps. Well, you know the old saying, “If the shoe fits……”………..Shellie……a liar……..naw! (smile)

         No, it wasn’t intentional. Actually I cleaned my keyboard, took the space bar off to clean under it and now it keeps getting stuck, to the point of creating extra spaces sometimes.

         That’s part of the reason why I have so many typos. NLME’s probably so tired of cleaning of my messy typing lately. I’ve got to do better for sure.

         But on a more serious note, this part of her conversation may be her saving grace. She’ll point out that she tried to tell him, but he wouldn’t listen.

         Shellie Z.: You don’t want me to pay $100?
         Defendant: Hell no.
         Shellie Z: All right just think about it.
         Defendant: I will.
         Shellie: That’s what it’s for.

         T. G.

         “Does your client get to sit there like a potted plant and lead the court down the primrose path? That’s the issue” ~ Judge Kenneth Lester

       • whonoze
         Nice catch…

         LORL!!! Sleuth, you slay me!!!

         Nice play on Shellie’s name…anyone else catch that? She Lie….whoooo that’s good a one. Fits perfectly….hahahahaha!

         If it was dropped in transcript…that person sure got it right!

     • You refer to Zimmerman as a confessed murderer.

       He did not confess to murder.

       He admitted to commiting a homicide in self defense.

       Not the same thing legally.

       Therefore referring to him as a confessed murderer is inaccurate.

       Further, the question of whether he is, in fact, guilty of murder, regardless of his own opinion on the matter, has not yet, and may never be, established by a verdict at trial, because there has not yet been a trial.

       unitron

       • Zimmerman is a murderer!! He confessed to killing Trayvon Martin, Martin is now dead, no one else did it so therefore no matter what happens in Zimmermans life, he will always be a murderer because he killed someone. It can be fancified all it wants to be, but!! he is in the boat with all the other people that took a human life. If you kill a human being you are a murderer not a humanitarian, not a good sport, not a NRA mvp…but a murderer. I am so tired of people trying to make what Zimmerman did ok by changing everything around. I bet when Oj was on trial and even when found guilty the very same people called him a murderer and the same of Casey Anthony. It looks like to me with the trouble he went through to earn this title we should darn well let him keep it. Murdered: to put a end to, to defeat decisively. To cause one’s life to cease is murder. Call it what you want but when you kill someone you murdered them. Maybe if I say killdured then it would help to ease your situation, seeing how Martin a 17 yr old being dead doesn’t bother you, but!! making sure Zimmerman who is alive gets the correct title placed on him does. P.s. The trial is to determine since he confessed to murder, if the murder was legal or illegal.

251. Youtube searches are a PITA. I can’t find a video. But here’s the written statements.

     First report by T.Smith on page 14

     more from and about him on pages 15/16

     Click to access TwinLakesShootingInitialReport.pdf

     (Sorry NMLE I can’t find this elsewhere)
     is an earlier release of the same statement, in which nothing is blacked out.

252. Orlando Sentinel is reporting that George’s statements to the police must be released within two weeks. I don’t want to pay to read the story so I can’t supply a link. The judge has been reviewing these statements and yesterday issued a report saying that he felt there was ample evidence for a 2nd degree conviction. Things are sure starting to pop.

     • What article states that the judge felt there was ample evidence for a 2nd degree conviction?

       • I jumped a bit on this, it is legally complicated. As Jo says below the judge said the case against George is strong. If the judge feels the evidence is strong enough to pretty much prove the 2nd degree murder charge, he will have the option to not grant bond at the June 29 hearing. We’ll know by what he does then, as to what he thinks now.
         There is a good breakdown of all the legal doings over at Talkleft.com. They have links posted. This blog is presented from a defense point of view, and is a good place to try to understand the legalities of Florida defense law and how this case may unfold in court. I’m just an layperson trying to keep up!

       • Did I understand correctly, that it’s up to the judge to decide if he’ll remain in jail until his trial?

         T. G.

         “Does your client get to sit there like a potted plant and lead the court down the primrose path? That’s the issue” ~ Judge Kenneth Lester

     • hi marilyn thanks for that info. Also in the bond order the judge states that the case against him is strong….so i’m looking forward to zims statements for sure.

     • FYI – a few weeks ago, they also blocked me and wanted me to pay for access to OS. This past week, I’ve been able to access OS with no problem. Maybe they dropped their attempt to make money on the story or there is a limit for the number of articles you can access over a given period of time.

       • The trick around this limitation is to browse in “incognito” mode (for google chrome users). You may want to try cleaning your cookies if you don’t have such mode in your browser.

       • Thanks, tchoupi! I do have google chrome!

253. In a related topic – the dummy in texas was convicted. http://gma.yahoo.com/texas-man-found-guilty-killing-neighbor-dispute-053934284–abc-news-topstories.html
     I think that the sponsors of these Stand Your Ground laws should be pursued for crimes against humanity. They sponsored legislation that INSPIRED these dummies to try to see if they could get away with murder. Sue the NRA for every god damn penny! Wrongful death. They need to be held accountable for what they have done to society.

     • HAHA. What a fool.

       It’s not HIS ground, he’s gone on the neighbour’s property to threaten them, with a gun drawn (assault in itself) and videoing himself???? why video a situation unless you expect it to go sour? and in that case why walk into it? absolute clear pre-meditation.

       Truly, they should make a CCW licence subject to an IQ test. That would reduce the number of guns around, quick fast.

     • Agree with both of you. Except.. in this case, GZ had the wherewithall to call the police non-emergency call to do the recording for he “did what he did” (Robert Zimmerman’s words).

       It has smacked of CYA to me from day one.

       The gun info is about to hit the media now and I know it’s been posted here that gun blow back may have been a factor. Can somebody repostt or post the number of the comment thread where blow back for the guns George and Shellie Zimmerman purchased.

       I just read that when those guns are bought in pairs (as the Zimmermans reportedly did), the guns are stamped with consecutive serial numbers and that’s piqued my interest in this part of the evidence.

       Maybe our resident Sleuth knows. 🙂

       I vaguely remember Sleuth saying his folks have sold guns for years and a mention that the Kel-tek 9mm DOES make the clicking noise of a gun cocking. I had read elsewhere that it doesn’t. Today I read an unrelated gun-for-sports blog and a commenter posted a mention of the clicking noise this “cheap gun” makes.

       How can the sounds made for prepping George Zimmerman’s gun be confirmed one way or the other?

       • If you’re going to need that gun for immediate self defense, the only way to carry it that makes sense is with a round chambered, which means all you have to do is pull the trigger (which overrides the hammer block safety that prevents accidental discharge).

         Considering that he was using his little flashlight, that sound is probably him banging on his bigger flashlight to get it to work.

         unitron

254. O’Mara’s Interview on CNN
     Aired June 1, 2012 – 15:00 ET

     DID MARK O’MARA SPEW SOME MORE NOT SO SUBLTE RACISM? RACE BAITING? IS THIS HIS BEST EXPLANATON FOR HIS CLIENT’S AND CLIENT’S WIFE DELIBERATE DECEITFULNESS?

     Taken from the CNN Transcript:

     O’MARA: If you consider about talking about 10, 20, and 155 as being code, then maybe you’re accurate.

     (CROSSTALK) O’MARA: Yes, $9, right. And I have been involved myself in cases where drug dealers talk, and they talk about watermelons and things like that. When you talk about nine or ten, I’m not certain that that is so much for code for $80,000 or $90,000, that that is legitimately trying to deceive anything.

     http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1206/01/cnr.07.html

     T. G.

     “Does your client get to sit there like a potted plant and lead the court down the primrose path? That’s the issue” ~ Judge Kenneth Lester

     • Judge Lester is pretty quotable! Love the tagline.

     • Speaking of watermelons, nobody here seems to have caught the audio clip from Witness 9, who appears to be Zimmerman’s ex-fiance accusing the whole Zimmerman clan of being hateful racists. The ex-fiance who filed for an injunction against GZ in 2005 citing domestic violence. See: http://media2.abcactionnews.com/html/zimmermanevidence/audio/W9_SPD.wav

       • Whonoze: Thank you! The link posted required a username/password.

         Here’s witness 9’s call to investigator Perkins — the link should work:

         [audio src="http://media2.abcactionnews.com/html/zimmermanevidence/audio/W9_SPD.wav" /]

       • I was able to follow the link, I wondered where the fiance was. The defense will most likely chalk her words up to sour grapes but she can still damage his character. I read her complaint on face book. It looks like Zimmerman Sr was counseling his son even back then to keep him out of jail. The young lady said there are people out there that know and I am sure she is right. I know by her complaint that she wanted nothing to do with him and he showed his anger when he was refused by her.

255. Hi ya Tina Taylor,

     YOUR REPLIES:

     Tina Taylor (@trustninHisword) Says:

     June 5, 2012 at 9:04 pm
     Hi Sleuth

     I posted comment (189) earlier that GZ seems to altering his appearance. Put on weight and allowing his hair to fill in…he does look more of Mexican descent…guessing in an attempt to blend in. Hey, I wonder if they will be confiscating his computer to see what he’s up to online?

     Reply
     Tina Taylor (@trustninHisword) Says:

     June 5, 2012 at 9:19 pm
     Holy Moly, Batman! That does look like a lot of meds…

     Reply

     189.Tina Says:

     June 4, 2012 at 5:16 pm
     Watching HLN with Jane Velez…couldn’t believe the transformation in Franke Taaffe…calm and rational and answered question directly. Is it just me, or does GZ in new mug shot look as if he’s trying to change his appearance? He’s growing his hair in, put on a few ‘lbs’.

     MY RESPONSE:

     Hi Tina,

     I apologize for just responding. I accidentally came across your post. Oh, I did see your response to me. Great minds think alike (smile). I also saw FT on Jane Velez a while back, is this a current show your’re referring to?

     No, it’s definitely not you. I noticed it too. Trying really hard to change his appearance. Maybe he and Shellie were planning to go to Mexico?

     It must’ve shocked his socks off when he found out he was going to be arrested again. As far as him having access to a computer or tv while he’s incarcerated, well that ain’t happening. He’s not allowed to have them while locked up. But I suspect some of his family members, Grace, Miguel, etc. and friends including FT & JO are monitoring the chatter, if not actually participating on the blogs.

     As I recall, Sonner and Uhrig, his last attorney’s said he spent too much time watching tv and on the internet following his story in the media. I do hope he has enough sense not to believe everything he hears/read on the internet.

     But ALL those bottles of medication. Wow! Looks as though he was on way more than Adderall and Temazepam. And to think he was driving a vehicle and toting a pistol.

     Definitely a bad and dangerous combinations. From the first time I heard the call he placed to the non-emergency line about Trayvon, I suspected that it was he who had the problem, was on drugs or something just by the way he spoke to the dispatcher.

     Every week there’s a bombshell. I guess the next one will be Shellie is not a she, and none of those pictures alleged to be him, are him. Or it’s not really him who’s been serving time in jail.

     T. G.

     “Does your client get to sit there like a potted plant and lead the court down the primrose path? That’s the issue” ~ Judge Kenneth Lester

     • I agree with the both of you, people are saying he was not a flight risk because he didn’t hurry up and leave. I would love to know why he kept his passport then! They are a prime example of thieves and liars, people have donated money to help him and all him and his wife can think of is to skim and lie. They were moving that money around and using it all the while, Omara was defending him pro bono and making him look like the victim. Where is his big mouth brother? why is he not on the witness list?, you would think he would be a witness seeing how he acted like he knew so much and that he is his brother. This entire family seem like they look their nose up at any and everything that doesn’t comply with how they do things. Yes!! they may be racist too but I think they think that they are above law and order. They sit up and lie on tv and try to make people think their lives are a wreck when in reality it’s not. Why would they go on tv and risk their lives. Nobody cares about them. I am so tired of Zimmerman sr, crying about their lives not being the same when he bred this man to be like he is, had he stopped defending him a long time ago then we wouldn’t be here. Not once did they apologize to the Martin family. They are disgusting and I hope to see all of their piles of crap dismantle one by one. There are people out there that know how they are. I wish they could have gotten shellie on something major, I bet she would have sung like a canary on her husband. Ugh they are a disgusting couple, I bet they made big plans for that killer money.

     • Hello Sleuth,

       Thanks for taking time to respond personally…

       you said…”Every week there’s a bombshell. I guess the next one will be Shellie is not a she, and none of those pictures alleged to be him, are him. Or it’s not really him who’s been serving time in jail.”

       That statement gave me a good ‘belly laugh’…I get what you’re saying! To me it’s like he’s morphed into different characters. Looks nothing like that photo of smiling GZ back in the day, or photos taken later that night at the station. First booking photo in April, he reminded me of the guy from Six Feet Under/Ugly Betty…then during bond hearing not like himself, and now recent photo appears to have had an expensive facial peeling or other treatment.

256. I don’t get the distance discrepancy where Mary and Selma live and where the body was. Both of them say they ran to the end of their porch (Selma only at first) and witnessed GZ on top of TM about 10 feet away.

     “Two women who live nearby have said they heard someone in distress, and then a gunshot. Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla, said Monday they ran to about 10 feet from where Martin’s body lay.”

     They don’t say it above but in other reports they say “the end of their porch” but they don’t say how far the body was. I’m just putting the two together.

     David Weigel actually went to their house and Selma showed him where the body was and he said it was around 19 feet (odd number to pick, one would think he would say 20)

     “The only real illumination on Zimmerman was a neighbor’s porch light, which, according to Mora, “is always on.” When you survey the yard, you’re looking at one of the least likely places to shoot somebody. The patch of grass that Martin died on is visible from at least 20 porches. Mora’s porch, for example, is only around 19 feet away.”

     I believe the neighbor with the light always on is “John” and he said the light don’t light much past his porch.

     I read in a report that they estimated the body to be about 30 feet from John’s door so I would guess that would make the body about 18 feet from the end of John’s porch so if you do the math that puts M&S and John’s porch ends about 37 feet apart. How can this be? What am I missing? Mary said in one report that the fight started about 5 doors down and in another she said about 3 doors down. I don’t get it. When they talk they sound like they were real close. Heck Selma said she could see TM’s foot moving with GZ on top of him after the shot, I would think she would have to be close to see that. Did they run off their porch about 75 feet and not realize it? That’s hard to imagine but maybe. What am I missing?

     • Selma owns 2831 RVC. Tha’s easy to find if you go to Seminol County Appraiser.

       TM’s body is found between 1221 TTL (john) & 2851 RVC. TM’s body is actually near the limit between 1211 TTL (jeremy) & 1221 TTL (john), but still in John’s backyard.

     • W1 (2841 RVC) said her porch light was on, and her neighbor’s (by which she means John) was off, which is why she could only see ‘figures’. Had John’s light been on, several witnesses who could not see clearly would have been able to. Most of the witnesses don’t begin to pick up any details beyond outlines until the neighbor with the flashlight shows up after the gunshot.

       The buildings are 20 yards apart. The edge of Selma’s porch is about 15 yards from where the body was, when it was photographed under the yellow blanket. The people giving numbers in feet just aren’t thinking. You could easily see a foot-shaking in death from 20 yards.

       What would have been visible to different witnesses after dark has less to do with distance or angle of the point of observation to the point observed, than to the distance of any light source to the point observed, and the light’s angle relative to the point of observation. Without knowing for sure what lighting was on the scene, we can make no assumptions about what anyone could or couldn’t have seen.

       Same with what they could have heard, which depends heavily on the acoustic peculiarites of the way the buildings are arranged, which can not be determined by mere observation. (Which is why concert halls are so hard to design, and are now routinely built with movable solid walls that can be ‘tuned,’ hidden behind opaque but acoustically transparent outer walls.)

       If you have Photoshop, DL the map linked here: http://tinyurl.com/dykw8dn
       It has yardage scales you can move around.

257. “David Weigel actually went to their house and Selma showed him where the body was and he said it was around 19 feet (odd number to pick, one would think he would say 20)”

     Question is, WAS that where the body really was? they might have very poor judgement of distances.

     A lot of the smaller bits of evidence may have been moved around. But I don’t think the body would have been moved, beyond at most just flipping it over. So where the police found it is where it was, give or take 2 feet for the flipping. So anyone saying it was anywhere else can’t estimate distances, and didn’t try to line it up with other objects.

     “she could see TM’s foot moving”… ??? I’d have thought he’d be beyond doing any kind of moving by then.

     All this “near” “by” “at” “end of” are very vague, and different for different people. Ideally they should make all the witnesses mark on a map where they went and where they think things were that they saw. That way we get to understand their meaning of “near” etc.

     • The body will move involuntarily so his foot moving could have been reflexes.

       • Maybe the foot moved a bit when George Zimmerman was astraddle Trayvon Martin after he’d shot him already. They first thought Zimmerman was checking a pulse or administering CPR, so Zimmerman’s weight on the body could have caused the body parts to move.

         Now that I better understand Witness #3’s statement, I wonder if Zimmerman concocted the entire “I jumped on Trayvon Martin’s body after the shot” story to cover himself just in case other witnesses had observed Zimmerman as the guy on top.

     • @tchoupi….Oh I believe you, that is why I was calling Mary and Selma’s judgment of distance into question. Just looking at the map it looked more like about 80 feet to me then 10 and I know most people in a moment of excitement their judgment can be off some but about 70 feet just seemed too big of a discrepancy to me. Thanx to whonoze I can see now that the discrepancy falls somewhere in the middle.

       @whonoze….15 yards, 45 feet, that makes a lot more sense. lets say they walked off the porch say about 20 feet or so without realizing it (Nothing) that would put them within 20 to 25 feet of the body, That would be close. That would be like the other end of my livingroom. Thanx, that is what I was missing. Whonoze, as far as the light on goes I thought I heard John say in his 55 min. interview that his light was on and that it didn’t light much past his porch. Oh g#d I don’t want to listen to that again, it’s aggravating : ) I’ll just leave it off.

       @aussie…..Yes, your right. one has always got to allow for human error and it looks like some of that is my own. I don’t have the tools some of you have so I’m just winging it.

       ” “she could see TM’s foot moving”… ??? I’d have thought he’d be beyond doing any kind of moving by then.”

       Yup, that’s what I would think also. At first I thought the same thing as commonsenseforchange said and it could very well be,and it could also be what princss6 said but my wheels are turning again (gets me in trouble sometimes) anyway, this is total speculation but I was thinking of what Argela Corey said, that she thinks she has one witness that saw something.Could that one witness be Selma? On Apr.3rd Tracy Martin told Reuters that investigator Chrise Serino told him what GZ told them, and that is TM fell on his BACK and said “you got me”. Now here we go with the human error again but lets just suppose Mr Martin got it right and I know what your thinking, would GZ be that stupid to say that? From what I have seen so far, Yes! he would, and the back thing may be the only thing he didn’t lie about. He may have,not thinking, messed up.

       ” At that point Zimmerman is able to unholster his weapon and fire a shot, striking Trayvon in the chest. Trayvon falls on his back and says, ‘You got me.'”

       http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

       Now what I’m thinking (and you probably see it coming) is with TM wearing dark jeans and a dark hoodie could it be that GZ frisked TM for something he could say TM threatened him with and then just at the time he flipped him over to check his back Selma come along but it was so dark that all she saw was those white tennis shoes moving/flipping and didn’t really know what she was seeing at the time? What do you think? Too much of a stretch?

       • @Jim –

         I think anything’s possible with this case. If Zimmerman flipped him over, he would have had to flip him back over again (2 flips) because the police found him face down.

       • Sorry Jim, I just saw this.

         Not too much of a stretch at all. First witness (john) didn’t say (wasn’t asked? ) if the body was face up or down, but he did say the arms were one to the side and one above the head. Next thing, his arms are under him. So we know he was moved, and most likely that was a flip-over.

         I still don’t believe the “you got me”. Not with that injury. Not while screaming for mercy.

         GZ all the way through is conscious of what’s happening and the fact that there may be witnesses, in that tight space between so many houses. He always puts in bits of what happened, in a light that is better for him, hoping in the confusion it will “fit” with what the witnesses know. LIke the bit about who was screaming for help.

         (Actually Lonnie has a theory GZ says HE did everything that actually TM did, to sow this kind of confusion).

         If he DID say “fell on his back” he must have forgotten he was face down when the police arrived. But he can explain that. He meant “fell back” not “ON his back”. Like he only “jumped on his back” because he didn’t realise how badly injured he was……..just a story to cover being seen straddling TM’s back.

         It will be interesting when his statements come out. The list of evidence looks like only one statement. I guess that would have to be the first one. Then they’ll keep us in suspense waiting for the later ones with the discrepancies.

         It would ALSO be interesting, tho probably not admissible in court, if the witnesses were HYPNOTISED, so they’d re-see the whole thing and be able to describe it in “real time”.

       • @CommonSenseForChange

         No, just one flip. Mr Martin said GZ told SPD that Trayvon fell on his back (face up) a error on GZ’s part. The theroy is GZ frisked Trayvon face up and then flipped him face down to frisk his back and got cought by selma, and then he had to come up with a reason for straddling Trayvon after he was dead.I think Selma saw Trayvons white tennis shoes flipping the second she got out there.

258. Latest weird rumour. I’ll put the link if I can find it again.

     A commenter on a site claims to be a personal friend of Zimmerman’s (sure) and therefore to have inside knowledge (yeah). Claims the phone identified as TM’s belongs to a little girl (cf heart sticker on it) and TM’s phone was left behind in Miami (yeah, like a teen goes anywhere without his phone) so the DeeDee calls are all lies. Fails to explain how the phone company got talked into falsifying all their billing records.

     The “it’s true because I think it is” disease seems to be quite widespread, and contagious.

     Come in, Mulder……

     • Then map 1 applies (even though that crap will be debunked). Zimmerman should have returned due west to his vehicle and not south at all.

       • Should never have got out of his truck in the first place.

         Maybe should never have got IN it.

     • Let’s say this nonsense about the phone is true.

       Who on the Sanford police would be stupid enough to be sharing details of the investigation with Zimmerman or any of his bestest buds?

     • I think part of why George Zimmerman is back in the clinker is to limit his story modifications formed by reading the internet (and viewing tv “news” about himself).

     • How many of Zimmermans friends are on the same meds he is on? these people are ridiculous. I bet ya a quarter someone has taken this and ran to town with it. People refuse to use commonsense in this situation. Only the people who watch certain news and not have seen the evidence dump would believe this crap, so that is likely all of the Zimmerman supporters. They are doing anything they can to make this poor kid look bad.

259. In the wake of the W9 bombshell (who gets hit by the shrapnel remaining to be seen), I decided I should post my phonetic analysis of the “coons” vs. “punks” question: http// redacted. com 85jrgq9

     Link not loading.

     • Trying again.

       Direct YouTube link (plz. read description:
       

       Blog link:

       “Coons” or “Punks” redux

260. Here’s a list of what they are going to release.

     Click to access redacted%20second%20discovery.pdf

     A few interesting ones for hard evidence:

     * Surveillance video from M&I Bank, which has a branch in Rinehart Rd (near the 7-11?)

     * Crime Scene: aerial photos, all ground photos and sketches

     * Dispatch Radio transmissions, car to car transmissions

     Character:

     * Zimmerman’s MySpace 12 pages of printout

     * 6 pages emails between GZ and former police chief Lee

     * Tracy Martin’s cell phone records January to March (strange one, this one, not sure of the relevance)

     • Trayvon’s cell phone is under Tracy Martin’s T-Mobile account.

     • I think Trayvon’s phone was in his dad’s name.

261. http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1212206–travyon-martin-shooting-gun-store-owner-a-george-zimmerman-witness

     Brief stories about who the civilian witnesses are. Not necessarily to be called in court, of curse, but ones who’ve been interviewed about this case.

     http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/15/141756/270

     offers a little more insight into some of them.

262. Hi guys, my 1st post here, but I have been reading your blog daily, great posts and nice work everyone! There are a couple of things that I have been wondering about for some time now and am hoping that someone might have some thoughts …

     1- In officer Smith’s report he says that while the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, he overheard him say, I was yelling for help, but no-one would help me. What is odd about that is that the Investigators make it a point to ask all the SFD paramedic witnesses if Zimmerman made any statements to them and they all say NO, in their interviews. So what is up with Officer Smith’s report ?

     2- Also the SFD paremedics are asked by the investigators if they recall what Zimmerman was wearing when they treated him. Well, from the interviews they say that his hands are cuffed behind his back and he was wearing a shirt(polo) and pants(jeans). My question is …where was his JACKET ?

     • @Justice Calls –

       That is indeed interesting. Excellent catch. Made me go listen to the paramedics and you’re right. They all say he was mostly silent. One of the paramedics said that Zimmerman complained when she was cleaning the wound say “ow, ow” as she was scraping away at the DRIED BLOOD TO GET TO SEE THE ACTUAL WOUND. To me, the wound sounds more like a scabbed over cut that got reopened.

       I think it’s really, really odd that 15 minutes after an injury on a night where the air is filled with moisture, the paramedic still had to pry off dried blood from Zimmerman’s head.

       The paramedics also claim to have cleaned off BLOOD FROM ZIMMERMAN’S HANDS AND ARMS.

       • Okay gang??? Did I say repeatedly that I had gotten the impression, very early on, that GZ’s wounds were probably older than they should have been? Of course, we didn’t have this report then, nor did we know that TM’s hands had no GZ trace. The TM profile, to me, just didn’t seem to support TM doing anything offensive. As I said before, if a youth is disrespectful of adults, then they are always disrespectful of adults, not just in highly stressed instances. On the other hand, however, if the youth is respectful of adults, then he or she is always going to be respectful.

         A truly thuggish kid, and we’ve all known of them, is truly a terror to behold. Not just sometime but all the time. And they never, ever say “please and thank you”, because that’s “sissy stuff”.

         Now GZ has a whole lot of explaining to do, because if there was dried blood on his head that night at the scene, then he had to come by those wonds elsewhere and that means that they are props. But worse yet, it means that he came to the scene prepared for the kill!

         I’ve noticed that O’Mara has dropped the pretenses of trying to make pleas that make sense, like when he’s trying to explain that GZ and his wife were confused about what they could do with the money they concealed from the court. As if they could not even think about asking their court appointed lawyer??? Ah, this is getting ridiculous, and the jury will bring back murder one!!! Heads are going to be rolling all over the state!

         • The reports from that night indicate that he was bleeding, fresh blood. Are you disregarding what the police and EMT’s said?

           • No… I’m paying attention to what I read on Leatherman’s Law Blog, about the paramedics saying that they were scraping dried blood off GZ’s head.

             I wasn’t able to find much about how blood dries, because there are too many variables for most pro’s to want to attack it. But I did find one unconfirmable report, that I forwarded for the groups inspection.

             That report, [by someone who claims to have a splatter lab] says that he found that: a drop of blood dried on a hard surface, under low humidity at room temperature in 70 minutes.

             So, I postulate that if that is true, and since GZ blood was on soft, oily, wet skin, at 60 degrees and high humidity, it should have taken longer to dry. That would place these wounds much earlier than the claimed fight, if true.

             I post this kind of thing because it’s the little things than lead to discovery. We’d probably have missed the significance of Osterman’s appearance at the bank, if I hadn’t posted that the timing of GZ discovering TM at the cut through, didn’t seem right. It seemed odd to me that the chances of them crossing paths was extraordinarily low, since it would have been a preoccupied GZ taking about a second to pass, without ever seeing TM.
             The chance that GZ would have left home, at the precise moment needed to catch TM in the 15 seconds of exposed path he would be on, just didn’t seem to add up. It didn’t add up to many other people here either, so the search for the “tip off” party focused on Taaffe first, then Osterman appeared.

             It’s no small thing that Osterman wears black. My guess is that on that night, wearing black would mean he could move around like a ghost, without being seen. The fact that he also has some Leo skills and knowledge makes him a powerful ally for GZ. Who, I can speculate, could throw things from one place to another, and/or otherwise move evidence around and help add confusion.

             His appearance on the scene is devastating to the prosecution because, the defense can use him as a foil to create doubt. Of course, I can’t know if they will or not, but I can easily imagine things.

       • Lonnie, now you’ve seen the pix of Shellie… how do you like a) domestic argument b) storms out of house fighting mad and injured (what injuries would a thrown plate cause??) c) finds a target to redirect anger at?

     • One other thing from the paramedics.. The female paramedic said she saw the bullet hole in Trayvon Martin and that there was no blood. She also says she is the one who removed the large can from Trayvon Martin’s hoodie pocket.

       • “aussie Says:

         June 19, 2012 at 2:57 pm

         Lonnie, now you’ve seen the pix of Shellie… how do you like a) domestic argument b) storms out of house fighting mad and injured (what injuries would a thrown plate cause??) c) finds a target to redirect anger at?”

         @aussie: (no reply button above and I’m not getting emails for some strange reason, so I have to reply this way).

         Shellie’s persona comes across as just too submissive and dependent, for her to act aggressively towards George. Not that it couldn’t happen, but I’d need to see some assertiveness on her part to enter this path.

         GZ has her down as a dummy who has to be told everything twice and even then can’t be trusted to “get it”. Exactly what a weak personality would seek in a companion, one who is unable to figure out when she’s being manipulated. If he wanted her to cut his head and draw blood, he’d have to coach her.

263. Hi guys, my 1st post here, but I have been reading your blog daily, great posts and nice work everyone! There are a couple of things that I have been wondering about and hoping that someone might have some thoughts …

     1- In officer Smith’s report he says that while the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, he overheard him say, I was yelling for help, but no-one would help me. What is odd about that is that the Investigators make it a point to ask all the SFD witnesses if Zimmerman made any statements to them and they all say NO, in their interviews. So what is up with Officer Smith’s report ?

     2- Also the SFD paramedics were asked by the investigators if they recall what Zimmerman was wearing when they were treating him. Well, from the interviews they say that his hands were cuffed behind his back and he was wearing a shirt(polo) and pants(jeans). My question is …where is his JACKET ?

     • Welcome , Leelee
       (looks like you double posted, perhaps NMLE can take out one of them?)

       1) this was circulating from very early on, that he said this to the people treating him. I’m not sure it was SFD. It partly comes down to what they all mean by the word “statements”, which they’d look at as statement relating to guilt or innocence. Saying “I shot him” is a statement. “I called for help” is not, in this meaning of the word.

       But you are right, a lot of things don’t quite add up.

       2) Odd about the jacket. He WAS wearing it when the neighbour took the photo of the back of his head. That seems to have been just before the police arrived. He WAS wearing it when they walked into the police station. I can’t see any reason they’d make him take it off before cuffing him. (Though I can see them letting someone put a jacket on, if he has one handy, on a wet and cold night).

       Monday a more detailed set of statements are being released. That will help us a lot. A lot more time-lines for us to put together. All the calls between dispatch and the various officers at the scene are being released. Currently we don’t even know who called the ambulances.

264. GUYS watch out for the bank video. It may be VERY important.

     There are two Targets around there. One is 1201 WP Ball Boulevard. This is in Seminole Towne Centre Marketplace. It is open 8 am to 10 pm. There is a M&I Bank at 1381 Rinehart Rd which would be on the way to this Target from Twin Lakes.

     A few minutes further south, another at 4155 West Lake Mary Boulevard. This is also open 8 am too 10 pm except Sundays closes 9 pm. There is an M&I bank at 3001 West Lake Mary Boulevard. This is a longish block past the mall where Target is.

     The video is likelier to be the Rinehart one. I’ve done a little map how this relates to the Target GZ was possibly going to, the 7-Eleven TM went to, and the bank.

     

     It’s not likely to be a pic of TM as he had no ATM card with him. It may be a shot of GZ withdrawing money, OR turning in the carpark, OR just driving past if the video is good enough to cover the whole street. On the other hand it might be 1 hour of blank showing GZ NOT driving past.

     IF it does show him, depending on the time, it might be critical to establishing WHERE he first saw TM.

     If it turns out he followed him from OUTSIDE the estate, it’s a whole new ball game.

     • Aussie, do you have any link to the video you’re writing about?

       • NOT YET, tchoupi.

         Coming soon to a a PC screen near you…….

         I was referring to a video that is listed among the evidence to be released in the next batch. I didn’t realise so many other comments were going to get between my list and my comments about it.

       • Too bad, I had the pop corn already.

     • It would be highly unlikely to establish GZ followed TM from outside The Retreat, as your map shows the bank is the other direction from the path TM would most certainly have taken to and from the 7-11.

       I think banks have different kinds of surveillance videos.

       ATM cams have very wide lenses that would really only show someone using the machine.

       There are probably cams with wider lenses covering the drive thru and parking lot, which could MAYBE pick up something beyond, location depending.

       But a check of the branch at 1381 Rinehart from Google Street views suggests it’s highly unlikely it would have any surveillance cam that could see the street, only activity on the bank property itself.

       So one kind of cam or the other, the only likely relevance would be footage showing GZ at the bank, possibly impeaching a claim he made to have been on the way to the bank when spotting TM.

       • Looking at time-lines, Whonoze. We know when TM left the 7-11. He’d be turning onto Orlando in a known time-slot after that. This might coincide with a time-slot of someone leaving the bank ………

         GZ told the police he saw TM at the north-west corner of the estate. What is this was from OUTSIDE, as he went into the shortcut? and GZ raced around to catch him coming out onto RVC?

       • If the surveillance is from an ATM, it could show whether George Zimmerman already had scratches on his face and head prior to the scuffle.

       • YAY CommonSense, Lonnie would love that, that’s been his theory for a long time. Not that there’s a lot of scratches, but……any would do. The one on the nose is the main “attacked from behind” point and the one that would show most on an ATM video.

         Wish they’d hurry up with that evidence.

       • Yeah @ Aussie and Lonnie.. I’m late, but I eventually got there! -:)

     • We all said it was a possibility that Zimmerman actually saw him before he got into the estates. We shall see. I wonder if this is the damning evidence that Omara was trying to keep from the public, in fear it would show his client in a bad light?

265. Cf. http://imgur.com/a/bcAII
     This is where I’ll keep on mapping witnesses and evidences. I also summarize witness statement (actually Lonnie helped me) on that task.
     Any comment/correction is welcomed. For example, I don’t know if the Honda Key was east or west from the sidewalk. I also understand that TM’s body was diagonally positioned when CPR was attempted (cf. John & Amanda) but after Selma’s I had the feeling he was oriented south-north with the head north.

     • tchoupi, can you make it so when you click on the witness numbers their statements pop up?
       Just kidding! Nice work. Well organized. All the stray bits can be so easily jumbled.

       • LOL. I needed a laugh today. TY

     • Just to add to Tchoupi’s great summary of the evidence.

       The layout of these houses is, front door between garage and front porch. As you go in, semi-open kitchen. Walk past that to living room with sliding doors onto back porch.

       From entrance, stairs go up on the garage side, They have a turn in them. Bath and laundry upstairs, and 3 bedrooms, the front one en-suite.

       This means anyone in the kitchen was a room away from the action. Anyone having to run upstairs was a room away plus in an enclosed stairwell, until they got to the back bedroom (“office” some called theirs) where they could again see the action.

       This explains some of the gaps in evidence where witnesses were on the move.

       (I got this from a real estate sales video).

     • Tchoupi and other evidence contributors here. NLME seems snowed under a bit, and I’m anxious to get the evidence dump up, in a way that the public will be able to make sense of. I want that to happen before the next bombshell sends everyone running to find the evidence.

       Have a look at this: http://flavzim.blogspot.com/

       I’ve generated a witness list, just so you can see how the blog will work.
       Each item of evidence will have it’s own article and it’s own url.
       Which will make facts easier to find or post elsewhere.
       If you guys who have been collecting evidence will sign on to the site,
       I’ll promote you to administrators, then we can decide how to populate the site, we’ll then link it back here. Right now it’s not public, I’m waiting for NLME’s approval, but as I said, I’m anxious to get it populated.
       Several people working together should do the trick quickly.

       What do you think?

       • Thank you, Lonnie!

         I have taken the afternoon off and will dedicate time towards this and the BccList.com evidence dump today/tonight.

         • Great, I don’t want any comments over there, unless they’re about evidence and/or presentation. After we acknowledge/incorporate the info they contain, we can delete them and keep the blog a pristine evidence dump site.

           It is my hope that with the evidence presented in an easy to find and use way, more people will use it, even those who haven’t the skills to ferret it out. This will lead to better evaluations of it across many blogs, not just here. Hey, if we get enough views we might start a trend that reigns in the media free-for-all they’ve been having.

         • NMLE, tchoupi, Lonnie:

           If you want some help compiling evidence files, I may be able to lend a hand. I have tons of stuff downloaded.

           • Thank you, whonoze! Email coming soon.

             If anybody else wants to be on a chain of emails regarding the compiling of evidence, please email me: thelist@bcclist.com.

           • Excellent. I’ve set the blog to public so anyone can get on, sign in using the join box on the right hand side and I’ll see if I can promote you to author/adm, without a google account (if not, then just sign up for a g-mail account, you don’t have to use it, but you need the username and password to log in).

             • My bcclist.com inbox is actually “powered” by google. Hmmmm — you’d think that would work.

               Maybe I need just a straight up gmail account. If that’s the case, let me know and I’ll email you from a gmail account where the admin invite can be sent. Thank you!

             • I had the same thing. my ISP — ( a cheap dial up service that I keep for the email feature, that way when I change higher speed services, I don’t have to do the “re-subscribe” dance with all my other links). — uses google mail services. Guess what? That is not considered a google account for google’s purposes. So, I had to sign up for a g-mail account. All that does is give you a google username and password, you don’t have to use the mail account, but you need the username and password for the other google features.

               Go to the google page and up top there’s a “g-mail” link. Click it and select a username and password and you’re done. Now you can use google’s other features.

       • hi guys great work. I have an exam monday so can only spend a bit of time checking back here and catching up but after monday i will be able to start helping you all again. cheers.

         • Cool — good luck on the exam!

       • Feel better, NLME! I wondered what had happened.

         • “Feel better, NLME! I wondered what had happened.”

           Naw, I’m cool. Just swamped. I *should* be back to a “normal” workload by next week. 🙂

           • If you need a google account, it’s really only a g-mail account that gives you a google username and password. Go to google and look at the top of the page, select “g-mail” and enter a username and create a password, that’s it.
             You can now use all of google’s features.

             • Cool. Def have a few google accounts. Was hoping to use my thelist@bcclist.com account since it’s “powered” by google. But, this may not work. I’ll email a different (gmail) address shortly!

             • Will do!

266. Maybe everyone but me knows this already….

     For some reason, perhaps the way Matt Gutman originally reported the story on ABC, I had assumed that the cell-phone logs documenting TM’s conversations with DeeDee were from her account. They’re not. They’re Trayvon’s.

     In DeeDee’s interview with SA de la Rionda, she mentions losing the connection and calling Trayvon back during the moments when GZ would have been observing or following TM. The logs show these as INCOMING, as Trayvon’s would. DeeDee’s logs would identify calls she made by their destination.

     And lo and behold, The folks redacting the bill missed a line saying “Welcome, tracy.” Showing the overall account (which has four different phones attached) belongs to Trayvon’s father.

     For the visuals: http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/cell-logs/

267. I think the bank video will indeed be very interesting and I also have some ideas about when Zimmerman first spotted Trayvon that I have pieced together using the clubhouse videos as a reference which I will post soon.

     Another thing that intrigues me is that in the 2nd discovery dump there is mention of Zimmerman’s concealed weapon application which should be an interesting read.
     Here is a link to the Florida concealed weapon and firearm application.

     Click to access 16036.pdf

     If I understand correctly, with reference to Zim’s pre-trial diversion program in 2005 when he was charged with resisting arrest, violence and battery after he pushed an undercover alcohol-control agent arresting an under-age friend at a bar… for question # 9 on the weapon application form, Zim should have answered YES and would have had to “submit a copy of the document issued by the court or probation office evidencing completion of probation or other courtimposed conditions.

     Did he answer YES to that question #9 ?

     PRETRIAL DIVERSION PROGRAM
     http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00712.htm

268. The club house videos aren’t really useful. I however found a few interesting things (nothing major though).

     The front door video shows police car blue light at ~ 39:50. We can see from time to time car’s headlights passing by. However, the 39:50 mark is the 1st time there is indication of a police car. It could be T. Smith coming in the complex at 7:17:11. However, the other two videos suggest otherwise.

     The following video is from the swimming pool. The camera is located at the south-west corner of the clubhouse and films in the south-east direction in order to show the whole swimming pool. In the top left corner of that video, we can also see the piece of TTL where GZ’s truck is expected. “see” is probably too big of a word as there are two big bright lights spots that blind the area of interest. The most left bright spot is a light from within the swimming pool area. The most left bright spot is from the street light at the nearest curve on TTL. In between, the 2 bright spots, there are 3 smaller light spots forming a triangle. I initially thought that it could be GZ’s truck headlights with some street light behind but watching cars come & go, I had the feeling that those lights are from the south side of the street. One thing though, from about 36:30 the car traffic suddenly explodes with most vehicles coming from the north entrance. Assuming that video is about in sync with the one above, then the police car seen at 39:50 couldn’t be T. Smith’s as he is supposed to be minutes ahead of the others.

     The last video of interest shows the back of the mailboxes shed and a tiny bit of TTL. This is where TM was when GZ called police. The camera films a covered corridor that runs along the south side of the clubhouse. From googlemap, you can see that the side walk goes into the clubhouse on the east and west sides of the building. It must be that covered corridor. At the top-right corner of the video, you can see the outside and the back of the mailboxes shed. On the right of the mailboxes, you can see a piece of TTL. Again, you can see cars passing by from time to time. But again, from about 37:50, the traffic explodes.

     • Just to add something I missed. The game room video also shows the blue light from police car at 39:40. This suggests all videos are in sync.
       It now seems to me that the game room video is better to count cars and put a time stamp: 1st car of the traffic increase appears at about 34:00.

     • Another question answered, so there were street lamps on TTL, which makes it even more likely that TM would have stayed on the street, rather than use the cut through and walk the darker back path. Knowing that someone is following you, you’d certainly like to stay on a well lit and traveled street, than be caught on a dark back walkway. It adds a few extra feet to the way home, but, at times it can feel very well worth it.

       • There are lamps near the entrance, and some apparently for security near the pool.

         There was a daytime drive-through and walk-through a house on a real estate site, I watched it carefully for lamps, and could see no poles anywhere there might be lamps on.

         But only one person had their back porch light on. Perhaps a few more had front porch lights on, as these light the house numbers and indicate you’re home. Also the kitchens face the street, at 7 pm many would be in use, and kitchen curtains tend to be thinner than living room ones. So all in all probably the paved street was better lit than the back path, despite the lack of street lighting.

         There is also safety in vehicular traffic, ie the chance of other cars coming along to prevent someone doing something to you. (Always walk facing the traffic though, so they can’t kerb-crawl you from behind).

       • Aussie: I have the floor plans. Only the end units (c.f. 1211 TTL and 2861 RVC) have kitchens near the front of the units. (The windows actually face the side.) The intermediate units (c.f. John, Mary, Teacher, 1231 TTL etc.) all have kitchens in the back, with a window that faces the back sidewalk.

269. OK, I finished my first witness-statement analysis. W8 (aka “DeeDee).

     DeeDee’s account: summary and discussion.

     • Brilliant, Whonoze. You’ve made a sense of that disjointed mess. DeeDee sounds very naive, and nervous, which should stand her in good stead if called to give evidence. The words are clearly her own, not something she’d been taught to say.

       “Back way” could even mean the back of the house rather than the front, which would involve an extra distance down, around and back up 3 more houses.

       • I get the impression that “Back Way” is not anything DD can understand. She doesn’t know the lay of the land, so it can’t make sense to her, it has to be something she heard, and it has to be something that TM said.

         TM, I guess, would normally use the walkway, as the most direct route to and from the “front”, get it? So RTVC at the south end is the “back”.

         So, if TM were using the walkway, then he would not pass his own house!

         Only if he decided to use the “back way”, would he have to pass his house and come around and back, because he has to be on TTL.
         No other route forces him to go past his house and come back.

         Now add to it that he’s feeling threatened, so he doesn’t want to walk in the darker walkway, but wants to stay in sight/public as much as possible, and TTL has street lights on it and traffic. For a person who is frightened it’s the only sane choice to make. Keep to the best lit, highest traffic area.

       • If Trayvon ran down TTL, why didn’t GZ follow in his car instead of on foot? And how was Trayvon taken back north to the “T”? Doesn’t seem like he would voluntarily go there. But it does make sense that GZ would want to push or pull him toward the truck.
         Dee Dee: “He was right by his father’s house.” I can picture Trayvon being apprehended there. George slipped in his re-enactment briefly saying he had his hands on Trayvon’s nose and mouth. This was when he was trying to act like he was Trayvon as aggressor. But he quickly changed to say that his own nose and mouth were covered. (That must have been really painful since his nose had supposedly been broken by then. Wrong!)
         So, now we have Trayvon being taken back toward the truck quietly. That’s a long way. Does he break free by the “T”? That seems to be where it got loud. Kinda seems like they might have been some distance apart for the yelling to be so loud. These two both seem mild mannered. So, the yells may have been to overcome distance. No witnesses could make out any of these words.
         We are off of GZ’s script now. And far beyond Stand Your Ground. So, the witnesses and evidence become critical. But I do think GZ has given us many more murderous and incriminating tidbits we still need to digest.

     • whonoze

       Thank you for that insightful and indepth recap of DD’s statement. I would agree with you for most part in that she doesn’t articulate very well. When I listened to her statement, I noticed the missteps when speaking about the ‘bump’. Even if she is not being completely forthright about that…imagine for a moment that this person that’s been following you, is now invading your personal space…you attempt to walk away and ‘bump’ in to, or nudge your way pass this person, who by all accounts has no business stopping, let alone, asking you anything about your presence and you’ve done nothing wrong. This strange man grabs hold of you. You can rest assured, had it been anyone of us in that instance we surely would’ve have done what was necessary to get this creepy dude to back off! Fact remains that GZ had absolutely NO AUTHORITY to approach this young man.

270. GZ has ruined himself beyond repair. As the only witness who saw the whole thing, and can testify about the details of that night, he hasn’t the credibility to even open his mouth. O’Mara knows that he must put GZ on the stand, if they are to have a slim hope, but O’Mara also knows that he must keep GZ off the stand at all costs! The police and prosecutors have no choice but to try to put as much distance between themselves and GZ as they possibly can. But the records keep pulling them right back in.

     As far as “Stand Your Ground” goes, this case shows just how easy it is for a person to lie, to avoid responsibility for murder, which is what they are expected to do. Only this law makes it easier to avoid responsibility, and that’s about all it does effectively. In a state with concealed carry, giving anyone the right to shoot anyone, based on their own claims of being made fearful, even if that claim “seems reasonable”, is a recipe for disaster.

271. Interesting:

     http://twitpic.com/9xo1z5

     • Cute, but I don’t think the gun is to scale.

272. I just read a very interesting article about Mr. Zimmerman’s injuries. Is it true that no diagnostic tests such as X-rays were taken following his visit to the doctor? Why on earth could the doctor say that Mr. Zimmerman had a “closed-fracture” if no X-ray was taken? Here is the article:

     Do Medical Records Exonerate George Zimmerman? Not So Fast.

     • Exactly. No X-rays…only a likely broken nose. Hmmmm

       • (NLME: check your email.) lol.

         At that link the guy is saying that it’s likely the doctor back dated the visit. If so, the SP will find that the billing records were submitted out of order and/or other errata, like a last entry of the day, when GZ indicates he showed up early in the day, or stuff like that.

         I didn’t leave a comment over there because I’d have to sign up, I’m already signed up to more sites than I want to count. But, he doesn’t yet know that TM’s hands showed no signs of GZ trace, meaning that any fight scenario is out of the question. Those trying to substitute TM swinging a bag with a can of iced tea at GZ’s nose, have forgotten what it’s like to carry a can in a plastic bag. Next time you’re in a store, get one of those bags and drop in an Arizona large can iced tea. Pay for it, go outside and give the bag a good healthy swing. LOL, the can will probably exit the bag through a gaping hole.
         The point being, you will never again think of such a thing as a weapon, since it’s just not something you can control. You’d be just as likely to injure yourself as hit another person with it.

         Oh well. I’m pretty sure that O’Mara will use this interlude to find and depose as many people as he possibly can, since he needs to put in the hours to get all that money away from GZ.

         Time is working against GZ, because the more time it takes the more people learn that TM never used his hands against GZ. And they will learn that GZ may have told the police, initially, that he was out on patrol! Or, the police knew that GZ was doing patrols. NW’ing isn’t about patrolling at all. And it also looks like GZ always carries his weapon when he goes anywhere, patrols or no.

         Last but not least, GZ is a proven liar, even capable of lying under his own oath, on the bible, before a court of law and in public. I can’t think of a way to counter such conduct. Anyone?

       • zimmerman never metioned trayvon swinging the bag at him (that we know of) so they can’t use that excuse anyway….and of course there being no dna on trayvons hands even after bloodying zimmermans nose and then trying to smother him, i’m starting to think zimmerman just tripped over his own shoelace

273. I guess you all know about the released jail calls and bank statements. So, I’ll just post 2 links I found interesting:

     http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/george_zimmerman_jailhouse_calls_codes_money.php

     http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/

     The 1st one details how stupid the Zs were. They must have over-inflated egos to believe you cheat everyone so easily.

     The 2nd one provides all files you need (just in case you don’t have them already).

274. George Zimmerman gave instructions in phone call with his wife, records show

     http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/06/18/152823/zimmerman-gave-instructions-in.html

     [excerpts]

     Shellie Zimmerman was arrested last week on a felony charge of lying under oath during her husband’s bail hearing. She faces the possibility of five years in prison.

     George Zimmerman’s defense attorney said he filed a motion in court Monday objecting to the planned release of 145 other jail phone calls that are unrelated to Zimmerman’s bail.

     “We are compiling a list of other potentially relevant phone calls and we will present them when appropriate,” O’Mara wrote on his website.

     His motion to hold off on the 145 other calls will be discussed at the hearing next week.

     On the tapes Zimmerman repeatedly discussed his shower schedule, and was very concerned about security. He asked his wife to purchase three bulletproof vests – one for him, one for her and another for O’Mara.

     They referred several times to advice offered by a “safety counsel,” apparently a consultant advising them on security matters.

     At one point they discussed plans for how to elude the media upon release from jail if he was granted bail. Zimmerman asked his wife to rent two cars and a hotel room with an attached garage.

     She suggested he duck in the backseat to hide from reporters. In a thinly veiled reference to the controversial garment worn by Martin,

     Zimmerman chuckled and said: “Well, I have my hoodie.”

     Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/06/18/152823/zimmerman-gave-instructions-in.html#storylink=cpy

     • The hoodie comment just shows how out of touch with reality these two are.

       • Agreed! This just blew his call to Sean Hannity into Beckistan-land (as far as being in touch with reality goes).

         I have said repeatedly, this “fear” factor is a buzzword that is the epidome of what “dog whistling” is.

         Casey Anthony’s people didn’t need to go into hiding. What’s up with the Zimmermans?

     • Gorge and She Lie…what a pair! Frankly, I don’t care to listen to the audio converstations, simply because it’s sickening enough to read about their misdeeds! You have reporters from OS making comments about listening to them lets you see more human side to him and he didn’t sound angry, or said anything(directly) about the victim…but he makes snide remark about him having his “hoodie”. I don’t care how human he sounds on his jail house convo’s with She Lie…where was that humanity the night of 2/26?

       GZ knows exactly whose sympathies to play on…he knew full well the calls are recorded and proceeds with his mock code talk…I sure hope they are charged with any other federal laws applicable to transferring of the money.

       • OS has long been in the tank for Zimmerman for first access to the police and now access to O’Mara.

       • @Tina, that remark ZImmerman said about the hoodie gave his true colors away. He knows he is guilty when he put Trayvon on the spot and he has no remorse for taking his life. The heartless liar makes me sick.

275. There was one article that stated that the recent objection didn’t really focus on preventing the release of the other 145 calls, but testimony from witness #9. O’Mara objected to the release of her allegations, because he thought that it would negatively reflect on GZ’s image.

     • San San,
       I guess he didn’t want his clients image tainted like he tainted Trayvon Martins. Some cases you just need to say no too. He knows he is guilty and that is why Zimmerman is paying him instead of what was once pro bono.

276. That’s it for me.

     At the start of this I could see how things maybe escalated one small step at a time. I thought Murder 2 + 20 years was too much. In Australia, with no mandatory minimum sentencing, it’s not a choice between nothing or 20. He’d have been facing 5 or 6 years for manslaughter, not enough for the cops to take his side and try to get him off on poorly-investigated “self defence”.

     But ““Well, I have my hoodie.””………That’s it, I’m done with him. Absolutely no remorse. Joking about the very thing he shot and killed someone for. NO WAY.

     Had TM been just injured, HE would be entitled to joke “I’ll be safe, I have my hoodie”. That is a SURVIVOR’S morbid joke. From a killer it is mockery. The guy’s a sociopath.

     • Indeed! He’s a user to the nth degree. He’s 110% loser because he’s scared of any and everything not described as benign by Hannityites.

     • My moment of no return was when I read that George had NO elevated body functions right after the shooting. His heart was not beating rapidly, He was not flushed or upset. This was from the EMT report 40 minutes after the shooting. Then I read that he went to his own doctor the next day so he could get clearance to go back to work. I think this was actually written in the doctor’s report. Someone was questioning where this came from so I’m going to look it up again and see.
       I also believe these are the manifestations of a sociopath.
       These actions (and many others we’ve discussed) make it too easy to imagine him grabbing Treyvon by his clothes, then hanging on for long moments while Treyvon screamed for help, then shooting to kill to make sure he could claim self defense.

       • I found it in an ABC report dated May 15:

         “The morning after the shooting, on Feb. 27, Zimmerman sought treatment at the offices of a general physician at a family practice near Sanford, Fla. The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work.”

     • And don’t forget that soon after he made that joke, he went in front of cameras to beg for forgiveness to TM’s parent at the bond hearing. To top it all he even managed to put another lie concerning what he believed TM’s age was.

     • We wouldn’t know it from reading here, but GZ still has his supporters. Although, as more info gets out there, ruining all those arguments they’ve been making on his behalf, they’re waning.

       I usually try to swat them down gently, by just pointing out that without any trace on TM’s hands, they can’t say that TM was beating up on GZ, but that GZ may very well have drawn his gun, as a way to prevent any assault.

       Because GZ has damaged his own credibility, they have no way to come back on such a speculative, but reasonable claim. The hard evidence is that TM never touched GZ’s head/face, only GZ’s testimony stands against the hard evidence, and today that’s not worth very much.

     • I agree. This guy is diabolical, but usually these types are hard to catch. I have said this before, but I have a feeling that Shellie is scared of him. Clearly, she tries to talk him out of funneling money. They knew that the calls were monitored, hence they’d have filled them with a bunch of “you-hoo, my boo-boo” to throw listeners off. What if she had refused to do it? These types can seem like the most loving people alive. For me neither behaves normal. He should be devastated that he had to result to killing another human being. She should be shocked and concerned that he shot an unarmed 17 year old at close range in the heart without ever trying to punch, hit or scratch him first. He is a cold blooded murderer. I frankly would be disappointed in my husband, son if they followed a person in the dark with a gun. Anyone with common sense would at least be suspicious. And to lie to the judge about money that he received for killing a kid? I can’t imagine what the judge thinks of him.

     • aussie,
       http://bodylanguagelady.blogspot.com/search/label/body%20language%20read%20of%20Zimmerman

       This is the link to the body language expert Mrs Pattie Wood, I remember her being on CNN and I was thinking about her and what she was saying about Zimmermans anger. We all know he has anger issues but she is more detailed in her transcript and video. She analyzes him top to bottom during his bond hearing. When you have time go check it out. I remember before we even knew he was on meds and all the other things we found out after the bond hearing, that he constantly blinked and he looked crazed. I am a medical professional and more and more I keep thinking that he is not on the medicine adderall for adhd or narcolepsy but for his anger issues, I also said I thought he was bi polar or schizophrenic but I have no real proof of this. I would like to know where all his anger stems from or is it that his father always helping him out of trouble gives him a sense of entitlement. I am sure they have his medical records and I bet they are a whopper. The only thing that concerns me is Omara going down the my client couldn’t help killing Martin because he was medically not responsible due to the side effects of the Adderall, Adderall has to be titrated and should not be taken for over a year. I t is a last ditch effort to control anger and emotional issues in adhd patients. I wonder will he throw that out once the money stops rolling in and the support for Zimmerman starts to decline? Adderall is highly addictive and I betcha money he was taking more than necessary and this is most likely why he wouldn’t go to the ER. The great physician who prescribed this medicine better have his I’s dotted and T’s crossed because I can see him being thrown under the bus for this one. Does anyone else see Omara trying mental defect plea when push comes to shove?

       • ahh.. but then…. carrying concealed while under the influence of drugs, legal or not is a felony, too, I believe 😉

         Did you see the huge bag of “meds” the lady sheriff was carrying for him, when he turned himself in?

         Team GZ of course still occasionally comes up with TM must have been aggro because of 4-days-ago’s bit of weed.

         • I’ve seen the bag of meds thing a few times. Link to the pic? Link confirming the bag’s contents?

           Update: Nevermind — just saw it on CNN’s homepage. It’s funny his med consumption isn’t even REMOTELY being protected by the State of Florida and/or media.

       • It has been rumored that Sanford is the pill capital of the country meaning you can get all types of prescription meds you aren’t prescribed. I’m not a medical professional, but I do believe he was not taking what was prescribed to him as directed. I, also, believe he may have been taking other pills not prescribed to him. One thing is clear to me, he did not want his blood tested that night and it would have been mandatory if he want to the emergency room.

       • It’ll be a tough row to hoe, as they say, to switch from “I had the right to do this because…” to, “I didn’t know what I was doing because…”.
         For a good long time, he certainly gave a very good and sane account of himself as a normal person caught by surprise in an extremely dangerous situation. He fooled what police he could, and those who he could not fool, he totally out maneuvered them.

         He, somehow prevented the collection of critical pieces of evidence early on, and successfully dodged a proper professional medical examination.
         He even managed to get a website set up, giving his side of the story in such convincing terms, that he managed to collect some 200,000 dollars and counting.

         And that’s just for starters… So, against the weight of that kind of proficiency, claiming mental anything is probably going a mile too far.

       • @ NLME

         Here you go!

         http://yfrog.com/khto1bkj

         • Hahaah – I like the artwork.

           A few minutes after asking if you had a pic/link regarding the meds, Zimmerman’s reenactment video hit CNN and the picture they used was him being carted off with the deputy toting his meds. Interesting timing. That’s the picture CNN chose to use, eh? It was the first time I had seen it…though, I’ve heard plenty about Zimmerman’s RX supply on this blog.

           In the state of Michigan, I believe it’s pretty tough to get a concealed pistol license. One of the requirements is proving that there’s no history of mental illness. I believe the state of Michigan goes so far as to look into your medical records and drugs prescribed. I’ll assume these same standards aren’t used in Florida? Why not?

           I fully conceded the above regarding Michigan’s concealed pistol license may be incorrect. I’m going solely off what a buddy of mine – a concealed pistol license holder and somebody I’d never want protecting me – has mentioned in the past.

           • PLEASE! people. Lay off the ‘GZ was crazy because he was taking psych meds,’ crap. Minor mental health problems are common, and they are MINOR as far as weird anti-social behavior is concerned.

             But they remain horribly stigmatized, as are the meds used to treat them. I am on a med program very similar to GZ’s (different drugs, same general classes), and neither I or the countless other folks on similar prescriptions are any danger to anyone, either because of our screwy serotonin levels or norepenephrine levels and whatever else is going on up there that makes me start shaking like a leaf in the middle of every freaking day, or the standard meds we take to get a little relief from this shit. GZ may be screwed toward violence, but it ain’t the psych conditions or the meds.

             Those meds don’t alter your personality, or even your overall disposition (don’t I wish they could?), much less affect your tendencies toward aggression. And spare me the anecdotal accounts of ‘well there was this one guy who went all bonkers and he was taking ___’ I’ve been living with this shit for 20 years, and I know the pharmacology…

             But I can’t tell you the cross-eyed looks I get when I try to explain my condition, how people suddenly start shunning me for no good reason, etc. etc.

             BELIEVE ME, any of us have a LOT more to fear from someone who has knocked down a couple bumps than anyone taking any kind of standard psych meds. I haven’t looked at the pic in question, but if GZ had a big bag I’d bet that’s because there were several bottles in there, and most of them were mostly empty. They don’t fill large prescriptions for benzos or stuff like Straterra because they do have street value, but they put them in the larger pill bottles anyway…

             • I don’t take many pills — one to be precise — so, I can’t relate but completely understand what you’re saying. I’d never judge Zimmerman based on the number of pill bottles in tote — they could be prescribed for an array of reasons (and have an array of side effects).

               However, if any of those prescriptions were related to mental illness and prescribed before the shooting, does Floria have similar concealed weapon license requirements as (I understand) Michigan’s? Meaning, would Zimmerman have to show/prove he was mentally fit before receiving a license to carry a concealed weapon?

               I’ll try to dig up this info soon. In the interim, a follow-up comment would be greatly appreciated if anybody knows the answer to this question.

277. I read on another forum that GZ’s bank statements indicated he had ATM transactions in Cambridge, Maryland. What’s the significance of that journey? Although there are supposedly lots of ports sold to internationals during the Bush era, I fail to see why the Zimmermans would seek refuge in the state that boasts the richest African American county unless he was trying to do the obviously opposite of what’s expected of a racist. Can anybody shed light on taking refuge in Cambridge, Md?

     • yep 2 cash withdrawals of $203 and one bucket of KFC. Maybe there’s some relative there? I’ve not heard of any connection, don’t know where the family lives.

     • I thought he was in Eastern Shore, Maryland which is the beach and not very diverse.

       I also caught a check from ShelLie’s mother on 4/20 for 1,000. Why was her mother giving them 1,000 dollars when they were sitting on at least 135K? Hell, ShelLIE had 10 grand cash on her with another 10K stashed in a safe deposit box.

       Here are the bank statements:

       http://www.scribd.com/jeweiner/d/97440251-George-Zimmerman-Bank-Statements

     • His dad used to work at the Pentagon, so that would mean they lived in the part of Virginia near DC and Maryland, so maybe he had an old friend he could hide out with for a while.

       He does seem to be taking the whole death threats thing pretty seriously.

278. That Gorge and She Lie Zimmerman…what a pair!

     I was ‘trolling’ on MSN reading their article about newly release phone calls…read a reply by RealityChecksIn…I’m not sure if it’s ok for me to post their response, but thought it was so on point and comical, that I just wanted to share. NMLE, I understand if you feel need to remove.

     Here’s what they posted…

     How is it that so many people go on and on about “it’s none of the government’s business how he spends his money… you know you would do the same thing, this guy is just trying to protect his family.” You mean YOU would do the same thing. YOU would lie. And YOU think you have the right to define what other people’s intentions are… just like George Zimmerman did to Trayvon Martin. Okay, let’s say that – even though you are entirely wrong – I stipulate to those facts, exactly as presented. No matter. Because those facts are irrelevant. Perjury is about lying to the court, it has absolutely nothing to do with how you spend your money in a personal crisis. Lying by omission is no different from openly speaking a falsehood. So George and Shellie get on the jailhouse horn and do this stupid pig latin code talk that apparently is confusing only to themselves – sheesh, they cover the same ground over and over and over and still have to rehash it again the next time they talk – and it’s obviously about transferring money. Whhaaaaaattt??? You mean “the Peter Pan” really means “the Pay Pal account?” Cleeeeevvvver 😛 If their conversations belied nothing criminal about what they had told the court about their finances, then why talk in code? And this simple minded, baby talk – that they so arrogantly believe nobody is smart enough to crack – demonstrates, to me, exactly, the same kind of hubris that would lead this chump to stalk a teenager through his own neighborhood on his OWN, SELF-ENDOWED, IMAGINARY authority. He’s not a cop. He didn’t ‘t have the right to act like one. I’m not arrogant enough to say what you chump Zimmerman lovers would do. I only know that I personally would not pretend that my thin and self-appointed “authority” as a neighborhood watch volunteer entitles me to to act against someone else on my personal intuition that someone is up to no good. My god, if the cops acted like that, nobody would be safe even in their own homes.

     • Thanks, Tina. Yes there are some sensible and decent people on some of the other sites. Bit by bit they seem to be gaining the upper hand, too. THo I still see repetitions of things like the “gold grille” which indicates the writers haven’t read any updates for about 2 months.

     • The going it over and over again – to me signifies just how much of a control freak the confessed killer is. This just confirms it. What is also confirmed to me his paranoia about personal safety…decoy cars, bullet proof vests…hotels with attached garages??? Seriously? This guy had no business watching anyone’s neighborhood with his obvious issues with paranoia.

     • “If their conversations belied nothing criminal about what they had told the court about their finances, then why talk in code?”

       Because he was in a building full of the kind of people you don’t want knowing about your finances?

       Jail is not the place to be bragging about to how much money you or your relatives have access.

       unitron

       • You’re not really supporting this “talking in code” behavior, correct? I mean, it’s not possible and you’re just joking around, right?

         • As a way to fool the authorities it’s silly, but to keep other prisoners and underpaid guards from finding out what kinda big bucks we’re talkin’, it’s not only possible, but highly probable.

           unitron

           • Is it a speaker phone call they were on? I’ve thankfully never had to make a call from jail.

             • Never heard the old adage “the walls have ears”?

               Notice how even though Zimmerman knows he’s being recorded he’s still speaking as softly as he can on those calls?

               Prison is no place to be talking loud about having tens of thousands of dollars, no matter where you are in the prison.

               unitron

             • Was Zimmerman around other inmates during his first stint behind bars? That’s weird — I assumed he (and his family…right?) would be protected from evildoers while locked up.

               I think – but could be wrong – you’re saying Zimmerman and his wife talked in code so that other inmates wouldn’t hear about how much money they banked off of Trayvon’s murder? If so, that’s a ridiculous assertion in my opinion (that even the defense hasn’t dreamt up).

             • Besides the fact that GZ wasn’t “in prison”, he is in pre-trial detention! As such he still has many privacy rights, not being a convicted felon… yet! So, my guess is his phone calls are provided with privacy stalls. One inmate at a time on the phones, or some such, ensures that other inmates aren’t able to eavesdrop, which would certainly defeat the purpose of recording the call in the first place, eh? Since the recording would like to capture frank calls. Hardly what you’d get if you didn’t provide a feeling of privacy.

       • Well well well…

         The issue is not that they talked finance in code during their jail calls.
         The issue is that they lied about their financial situation while under oath during the bond hearing.

         I would add that:
         The issue is that he lied about not knowing the age of TM while under oath during that same bond hearing.
         The issue is that he faked being sorry for killing TM, as his hoodie joke shows, while under oath in that very same bond hearing.

         Nice try though

       • He was in administrative segregation not gen pop.

       • if he was talking in code to protect his family and finances from his fellow inmates then i’m sure his lawyer would have used that as his excuse but he did not….so it’s not true it’s just another fabrication to try and defend the man for lying….and as someone else mentioned, it is not the conversation he had in prison that he is in the shit for, it is the lies he and his wife told to the judge….the recorded calls were just proof of those lies.

279. I’m seeing what appears to be Martin case fatigue here on the Interwebs. There’s oodles of stuff in the May 17 discovery dump folks haven’t properly dug into yet.

     After trying to work through the tech problems with DeeDee’s first interview w Crump, and comparing it with her later interview with SA de la Rionda. I came to the conclusion she has distorted her testimony, perhaps only in minor ways, but enough to undermine her credibility to the point where I think there’s more risk than reward for the prosecution to call her. (revised post at http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/deedees-account/).

     There are also a number of subtle confirmations, contradictions, questions raised by carefully comparing different witness accounts (meaning different statement by the same person as well as descriptions of the same things by different persons.) For example, if GZ and TM had been struggling on the sidewalk, they would have been equidistant between W6 and W1, but that does not seem to be the case by virtue of how the witnesses describe things.

     At this point, i wouldn’t be surprised if the two people everyone has figured for the star witnesses on each side — John and DeeDee — turn out to be totally irrelevant, their credibility so damaged that neither will be called. What then?

     Quo vadis, o seekers of truth?

     • Just fatigue on this end. Hope to catch up this week. 🙂

280. I’m with you aussie. In my theory I said that if GZ just came clean right after the shot I believe he would get something like reckless manslaughter and get the minimum of 2 or 3 years and that would of been good enough for me, but the more I hear about this guy the more I think they should hang him. Even a soldier of war feels some kind of remorse when he/she kills the enemy. GZ has none and this was a kid that did nothing at all. I say hang him!

     I have been thinking a lot about the start of this and how it started and the more I think about it the more GZ just pisses me off!!! 5 times!! yup, count them 5 ####ing times!!! GZ had a chance to defuse the whole situation. #1 when he was following Trayvon in his SUV he could of at a safe distance stopped and politely said, I’m NW, I don’t know you, do you live around here? #2, when GZ drove ahead and parked and then Trayvon walked past him, same thing. #3 is when Trayvon told DeeDee ” he’s right behind me” GZ could of said, you don’t have to run I’m NW, I just want to talk to you. #4 is when Trayvon stopped and turned around and ASKED “what are you following me for?”#5 is when Trayvon ASKED GZ the same question and still didn’t get a answer. Even if GZ really thought Trayvon was a bad guy the first 2 would of defused the whole thing and the bad guy would of moved on and probably not come back. But that would of ruined GZ’s fun. I believe GZ knew the kid was scared of him and GZ was likeing it. I think it was giving him a kind of rush. It made him feel like a big man, like the cop he always wanted to be, but even a cop would ID himself right off the bat. For GZ to say he was NW would of just blown all his fun. I hope Bubba has some fun.I still don’t believe GZ had intentions of shooting the kid that night but when he scared Trayvon to the braking point and things didn’t go his way I don’t think he had any problem with it. In GZ’s mind he created a bad guy out of Trayvon.(playing cops and robbers) Trayvon saw GZ as a bad guy and now we know he was right.

     You may have noticed I say Trayvon instead of TM, no more TM for me, for now on it’s Trayvon and GZ is just GZ and to anybody that don’t like it they can kiss my #$$

     “Hypnotized” that would be interesting, but your right, I don’t think it would be admissible. I wonder what kind of stuff would come out of GZ if he was hypnotized. I bet that would be scary.

     • @Jim

       I understand completely your frustration every time more gets released! I wasn’t one who jumped on this the moment it made national news…waited for details to come in and researched for myself. I said in earlier post that I don’t want to listen to their calls…because just thinking about what their demeanor is, really angered me! You say “You may have noticed I say Trayvon instead of TM, no more TM for me”…that’s something I’ve been consistent in doing anywhere I post. Hardly ever used his initials, but GZ, with exception of few times, I use his initials.

     • Count me in on Trayvon as well.

       In any event, since Trayvon didn’t strike GZ or fight with him in any way, we now know that it was all GZ all the time. If there was any contact made, it was GZ doing the contacting. If Trayvon was on top of GZ on the ground, it was GZ who pulled him down on top of himself. You don’t try to make physical contact with someone you are afraid of! The very idea of it is so phony that even in movies you don’t see victims attacking Freddy Krugger or Jason! Because that idea just doesn’t hold weight with anyone.

       Trayvon could easily see that he was over matched by GZ, who he was already in fear of. The only reasonable way that contact could be made between the two, would be if GZ caught and grabbed Trayvon. If GZ didn’t hold on tight, Trayvon would have bolted away. Which probably explains how they wound up on the ground together. Trayvon tried to pull away and GZ tried to vigorously yank him back hard and they both toppled to the ground.

       As far as GZ not wanting to kill, I have to say the jury is still out on that, at least in my mind. Perhaps GZ just became angered that he was having so much trouble controlling Trayvon, that he suddenly decided to shoot him as a way of gaining control. Of course, he could also have realized that his crazed behavior that night, if looked at in a calm setting, he’d have been removed from NW, and the police would have been distancing themselves from him, meaning that all those hopes of establishing good relations down at the station were for nothing.

281. Ok now I see why they wanted young Martins dads phone records. I also see the sheriff has been officially fired. I knew he was fired, Nancy Grace said on her show that when he made the statement that he was stepping aside that this meant either the FBI or State has found negative evidence of wrong doing on his part. She was right!!! Now, we want ll the details of his transgressions in this case.

     • They fired the Chief of Police.

       Why does everybody keep talking about the Sheriff?

       unitron

282. • The only time, Zimmerman showed any signs of life is when his father testified, everything is he just went through the motions. I guess he got all of his crying out the past several months he remained a free man. How do you kill someone and be this calm and show not one ounce of remorse? He thinks he is right. Aussie you are correct sociopath he is!!

       • On sociopath: One of the witnesses said Zimmerman was very calm and cool after the shooting. In another recent case, where a father was not indicted by a grand jury for beating a man to death, who had been attempting to rape his 5 yr old daughter, the father called 911. The 911 call shows the father was becoming hysterical because the man he beat up was dying. He seemed aware of the enormity of taking someone else’s life, as horrible as that other person was.

         Zimmerman had no such awareness.

       • Sproutlette,

         Yes, I remember reading where the police stated the father was very remorseful. This is classic behavior the father showed for killing someone. Even though he was raping his child he still showed his capacity to feel for another human being. Zimmerman joked about having a hoodie. I can see that him and his wife think this charge is beneath him and he should not be in trouble. I wonder about that wife and what lengths would she go to, to protect her husband.

283. “We are compiling a list of other potentially relevant phone calls and we will present them when appropriate,” O’Mara wrote on his website.

     Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/06/18/152823/zimmerman-gave-instructions-in.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

     Direct quote from Omara when he was saying the other calls weren’t relevant and did not need to be released. we can be the judge of that. So in other words I would like to have released only the good phone calls that make my client look good. I guess he couldn’t find anymore information to leak on young Martin. How does Omara think he can have only certain information released in his favor?

284. So, things are moving a little……….

     Poice Chief Bill Lee just got fired.

     http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/20/justice/florida-martin-case-police-chief/index.html

     And here is TRANSCRIPT and TAPE of Tracy Martin’s 911 call to report Trayvon missing.

     http://newsone.com/2021886/new-911-calls-released-in-trayvon-martin-case-sanford-chief-bill-lee-fired/

     • That last link starts off with a montage, so you have to wait a while for the Tracy call.

       It is worth suffering through for the truly IDIOTIC comment at the end by the TV presenter, who clearly has not been following the case at all.

       This is a much better link, giving just the actual call – and the 911 calling back to say they’re sending a car.

       http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/911-calls-trayvon-martins-father-released/nPbPL/

285. Hi All. Here is the video link to GZ’s reenactment of what occurred that night:

     [video src="http://cmgdigital.brightcove.com.edgesuite.net/268012959001/268012959001_1699804655001_video-reenactment-0227.mp4" /]

286. Reenactment video released by defense:

     http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-reenactment-on-feb-27/vcQxd/

     • As first mentioned here when I was working off memory alone…

       Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman Evidence and Court Proceedings

       …there are some discrepancies with the timing in Zimmerman’s reenactment.

       The analysis is in the Update section. Specifically, there’s a 26 second gap in Zimmerman’s map (below) and the circling of his vehicle by Trayvon near the cut throughs is impossible.

       

       • No, you’re getting it mixed… In the re-enactment GZ is saying that Trayvon walked up Twin Trees Lane while he was parked at the club house. Then he says, Trayvon came back and walked around his car while he was still at the club house. He then says that Trayvon walked towards the cut through and he followed with his car and parked, got out and walked over to RTVC and back.

         So now new timelines are needed to reconcile what GZ says with the calls and other errata.

         My guess is that a straight through timeline, based on the activities GZ says in the re-enactment, is going to leave scads of time unaccounted for.

         Trayvon was not a thug or a bully boy, he was just a harmless kid with no notion of combat action at all. He certainly shows no signs of being capable or disposed of resorting to fisticuffs with another kid, let alone an adult. So he was scared and his reflex was to flee. I think he turned on to TTL and never looked back. He was out of breath when he reached his house, but thought he had escaped and stopped to catch his breath. Why not? He didn’t know who he’d find at home, why would he want to have to explain why he was huffing and puffing so hard?

         Worse, there was only his little brother in the house so likely no help there inside, only not to expose his brother to danger when he discovers GZ behind him again he flees again. But this time he’s not so quick, since he hasn’t recovered his breath. The rest of the time is spent by GZ working Trayvon back down to the “T”, because GZ knows he’s not supposed to be south of there. He may not have obeyed the NW rules, but he was clearly aware of them! Notice how he struggles to bring his activities in line with the rules.

         • “No, you’re getting it mixed… In the re-enactment GZ is saying that Trayvon walked up Twin Trees Lane while he was parked at the club house. Then he says, Trayvon came back and walked around his car while he was still at the club house. He then says that Trayvon walked towards the cut through and he followed with his car and parked, got out and walked over to RTVC and back.”

           As I recall, the below map should reflect what’s mentioned in Zimmerman’s video reenactment…

           

           The vehicle circling by Trayvon was said to have happened near the cut throughs AFTER the teen ran down the path towards his house, BEFORE Zimmerman left his car, and WHILE he was still on the phone with police. That’s obviously impossible so it’s purposely been omitted from the above map.

           If any of this is incorrect, please let me know!

           • I know, there seems to be the older version, where we thought that the walk around occurred while GZ was parked near the cut through. But the video I watched, clearly stated that Trayvon walked past the car while it was parked at the club house, then he turned and went up TTL. I remember thinking that “now the car will move over to the cut through” but it didn’t, that’s when GZ says that Trayvon came back down TTL and walked around his car, while it was still parked at the club house. Then Trayvon began walking over to the cut through and GZ followed in the car and parked there.

             I’ll have another look, maybe I’m the one suffering burn out, lol!

             • Hahaha.

               Check the 6:09 mark of Zimmerman’s full video reenactment — that’s the circling I’m referencing…

               http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-reenactment-on-feb-27/vcQxd/

               George may or may not have mentioned some circling near the clubhouse earlier in the reenactment but the 6:09 mark is the circling that’s literally impossible.

             • Yeah, I know that the 6:09 circling is not possible. I just don’t know where I got the idea that he says, that while he was parked at the club house, Trayvon turned and went up TTL, then came back and circled his car.

               My notes say that Trayvon went through the cut through and took a right up the walkway, then came back and circled. Anyway these videos load slowly so I just have to stay alert in case I see it again. I believe, now that I think about it, that info was contained in a “voice over” so there’s a chance there’s a spoof out there with a faked voice over inserted. So now we’ve got to start saving video links. Oy vey!!!

       • Hmmm… It looks like I got it mixed up!
         Unless someone spoofed a video, I’m going to try to hunt it down.
         Nope, just saved myself the trouble, I took notes. They are at odds with my memory. Hmmm…

         I did, however, figure out what the “strange” standing in the rain was about over at the bend in RTVC near Taaffe’s house.

         If you look at the video and you picture yourself standing over there by the houses, and you were trying to get to Trayvon’s house, you’d obviously want to cross the road and get to the sidewalk that leads to the club house.

         Now, you see a car coming down the road, so what do you do? You keep walking along the same side of the road, waiting for the car to pass, so you can cross. So that puts Trayvon walking on the grass, as he stalls waiting for the car to pass. But the car doesn’t pass, and that’s vexing at first. Because it’s impeding your progress. Instead the car stops, so you stop too! Because, obviously you can’t cross until the car passes, and it should have passed already, so now you know something is strange.

         So this is where the stalking happened, and GZ clearly knew he had been sighted, his stopping gave Trayvon pause to consider that something was going on.

         Now, when he gets to the club house, he sees the same car again! Obviously this car should have been long gone, but it isn’t. So you stare at it to signal that you know you’re being followed, so maybe that will be enough to make the driver stop.

         Point is, Trayvon wasn’t acting strange at all, he was reacting to this strange behavior of GZ!

         Sure he’s standing there in the rain on RTVC, but it’s because he’s waiting for GZ’s car to pass, so he can cross the street.

287. Here is ZImmermans statement to the police. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html
     PDF is there.
     Seems to be scant on details. Too short too. Where are the bushes he claims TM was hiding in?

     • Exactly! I noted the same thing: What bushes near the sidewalks, George? And, what about the witnesses that said yelling voices were coming towards them?

       • Just spotted: GZ defense team has released a video of Zimmerman re-enacting the shooting encounter: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/21/george-zimmermans-reenact_n_1614983.html

         Also, they finally canned Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/20/bill-lee-sanford-police-c_n_1614018.html

         And here’s audio and full transcripts of Zimmerman’s jailhouse calls to his wife:
         http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/18/george-zimmermans-phone-calls-jail_n_1605592.html

         • Thank you! Do you have specifics regarding the reason Police Chief Bill Lee was fired?

           Note: I’ve been tuned out for a bit so if this has been discussed on the blog and/or elsewhere on the internet, I apologize.

           I’m asking because the city council recently (April) voted 3-2 to keep Bill Lee around while things play out. What’s changed since then? If nothing major regarding Bill Lee has been reported by the media as of late, I have a feeling we’re about to get a bombshell and it will be related to his actions/inactions.

       • I watch the video and read article…then you have defense attorney’s commenting on the case pointing out inconsistencies, yet they say things like; “the video didn’t show Zimmerman to be the zealous “cop-wannabe” that Martin’s parents have portrayed. “I didn’t see him being too slick on the details,” Hill said.

         Well, obviously not! He’d gotten all his “cop-wannabe” aggression out of his system the night before! Reason he appears calm, cool, and collected during the reenactment is because he had overnight and part of the a.m. to rehearse it. Doubt he was able to close his eyes and sleep that night without what happened playing over and over in his head.

288. NLME – you were right! He has a silver honda ridgeline!

     • Wow! Link?

       If a link with this tidbit has been posted here this morning, I haven’t reviewed those yet. My bad.

       • It’s in the re-enactment video.

       • It is in the reenactment video. Good job! Hat’s off!

     • good job…great detective work NLME

     • That was some awesome detective work. When I heard Zimmerman say that in the video, I immediately thought of this blog and NLME’s research.

289. RE-ENACTMENT OF THE MURDER

     The confessed murderer couldn’t manage to remove Trayvon’s hands from his mouth and nose but somehow managed to reach for his gun and murder the unarmed teen. Amazing, just amazing.

     http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/06/tape-shows-zimmerman-re-enacting-martin-shooting-for-police/1?csp=34news

     T. G.

     • So he clears that up, he came down RTVC which is what I thought.
       He also picks up Trayvon near the cut through. But he says he waited there and he mentions 1440. 1460 and 1470 RTVC as well, kinda indicating that this is where he gave Trayvon pause to notice him staring/following.

       He says that from the clubhouse he saw Trayvon go up TTL. Then he drives over to where he has a good view of the “T”, but no mention of “I lost him” there, just that he lost sight of him (obviously he would know where Travyon was headed, towards the back gate, but he makes no mention of it at this time). But he also says that dispatch tells him to follow! To explain why he continued to follow. He then says that dispatch says “we don’t need you to do that”, when he’s already at RTVC east of the “T”.

       Then he says he went all the way out to RTVC again to get an address.

       Now he says he was on his way back to his truck when TM appears “out of nowhere”, which anyone can see is quite impossible, given the lay of the land.

       He says the fight starts with him on the pathway north and a few feet west of the “T”, then he has to start fudging and makes a total mess of it all.
       Worse yet is, he knows what a mess he’s making and so he tries to go quiet and divert away from any discussion of the part he can’t make work.

       I guess, because the police are being quiet, he figures he has them fooled. In any event this is taken in Feb, so he’s still not charged, so I guess he doesn’t think it matters much, since the evidence is pretty much messed up.

       Oh and he says that Trayvon, after walking up TTL, came back down and circled his truck.

       I think it’s much more likely that this part of the story is completely fabricated, after Trayvon goes up TTL. My guess is that Trayvon went up TTL all the way and came around and back down to his house. So the only question is how GZ got behind him again.

       • Lonnie,

         I watched the version posted on CNN….and I couldn’t get through it all because NONE of what he says in the beginning matches up with the 911 call…”then he came back and started circling my truck, I think told that to the non emergency dispatcher”… You know what George, just shut up and be quiet. How the hell can you live in a development with only 3 street names for couple of years, go on NW patrol, and not know that the main street you were traveling on was TTL?!

       • @ Lonnie. I think it’s much more likely that this part of the story is completely fabricated, after Trayvon goes up TTL. My guess is that Trayvon went up TTL all the way and came around and back down to his house. So the only question is how GZ got behind him again.

         Here’s my scenario. Tray went down TTL and east after the first row of houses. He rested there. GZ turned right at the end of the cut through and onto RVC then cut right after the 1st row there. That row is longer (starts further back, curved walkway) and would have put GZ behind Trayvon.

         One thing GZ said during the second interview with Serino is that he went towards the back gate first looking for Trayvon. ” … walked straight to my street.” “I walked past where he went to go to RVC.” “walked back through dog walk back to my street.” From Interview w/ Investigators Serino & Singleton 2/29 (3 parter). BTW GZ was walking when asked “are you following him.” Georgy said. 2/29.

         I don’t have links. I went to the other site. GZLegal. Sorry about that. It’s complete with lots of background music/noise included in the package to annoy just to annoy.

         Anyway, I’ll stay tuned here.

290. Thanks for the reenactment video link, princss6.

     It answers a few of the mysteries.

     – Where GZ spots Trayvon
     – Where GZ parked initially
     – The “circling” story location
     – The tapping noise – banging on a dead flashlight
     – GZ’s Honda Ridgeline

     But there is plenty to question. Can’t wait to see more analysis.

     • Thank you for the fuller length reenactment video, prncss6!

       I’m watching it now on a pc — the video wouldn’t load earlier on my iPhone — and right off the bat there’s some interesting info.

       1. As noted in the original blog posting, Zimmerman 1st spotted Trayvon at his buddy’s (Frank Taaffe’s) address of 1460 Retreat View Circle. Or, that’s what Zimmerman stated in his reenactment video. The call logs could be interesting. Unless, of course, Taaffe used a CB radio to communicate with Zimmerman. If that’s the case, we’ll never know if the eventual murder of an unarmed teenager was coordinated between two adult men.

       2. I had about 10 other things I wanted to do today regarding the blog posting but I will be expediting a new map based on what Zimmerman states in the fuller length reenactment video. At first glance and working off of memory alone, Zimmerman’s account of the call’s timing, original truck location, subsequent chase, etc. is impossible.

       It’s important to note that Zimmerman mentions being told to stop chasing Trayvon so he (supposedly) ended his pursuit. Meaning, Zimmerman knew chasing Trayvon was no longer necessary or wanted. Either final map I’ve drawn shows that Zimmerman didn’t stop his pursuit.

       https://bcclist.com/2012/05/24/two-maps-of-the-george-zimmerman-and-trayvon-martin-chase/

       It’s also important to note that Zimmerman tries to blame is pursuit of Trayvon on the dispatcher wanting an address. The dispatcher clearly gave up trying to get an adequate truck location from Zimmerman and told him to stop pursuing the unarmed teen within the first few minutes of the call.

       3. Zimmerman gets to the east most potion of the T, is still on the phone with the non emergency dispatcher, ends the call, and takes several minutes to get back to the T before being attacked from behind. That timing definitely doesn’t add up.

       • I’m going to take a wild stab at it: My guess is that the timeline will show that Trayvon walked home using “the back way”, which would be TTL to the south end of the houses, then around and back down to the house.

         I think GZ was still following him, and lost sight of him as he rounded the last house on TTL to go east then south to his house. GZ then hustles up TTL and finally gets behind Trayvon, just as the teen is resting outside.
         Trayvon gets scared and starts to run away to the south, but GZ catches him by the clothes an they both do a little dance down to where GZ shoots him. In the course of this “dance” GZ yanks Trayvon’s cloths so hard, the teen rebounds against him and they both go down. But, by now there are witnesses and there’s an apparent struggle, so GZ gets the idea to use it as part of his new fabrications. He could have put his hands up and used a sharp point on the pistol to cut his own head, or he could have use keys. But it’s much more likely that he already had obtained these wounds somewhere else, and had only to peel off the scabs to start them bleeding again.

         Okay, enough speculation, I think the timelines you guys construct, and you’ll probably have to construct several, since you need to take each set of possibilities out to the end result, before they can be compared, to see what is and is not possible in them.

       • He gets to RTVC and is still on the phone with the dispatcher so he says, yet he never gives the dispatcher the address he claims he was looking for. And if you watch the reenactment video – when he states he is looking for an address and starts walking down the T, he is in eyesight of an address on TTL directly to his right.

         I’m so tired of his lies!

     • Hi milo:

       Didn’t the police or a witness say that one of the flashlights on the ground was on when they arrived?

       • GZ had 2 flashlights. tchoupi needs to answer this one, but I recall that the smaller key chain flashlight was found on.

         It’s my presumption that he was banging on the larger flashlight as he followed Trayvon. Sure sounds like it, and he complains of a dead flashlight in the reenactment.

       • Indeed, in the evidence dump, it is stated that the flashlight chained to the honda key was on the ground near the “T” and was on.
         Witness #13 noticed the flashlight when he went to GZ and before Officer T. Smith joined them. Knowing how dark the area was, it is very likely that Wit #13 noticed the small flashlight on the grass because it was on.

       • The keychain light was still on when the police got there, too. Can’t recall which of them said it now, maybe T.Smith. But I remember checking on this when I was doubting it belonged to GZ (before NLME burned out his ears confirming he has a Honda Ridgeline).

         The long distraction about the flashlight being dead is
         * partly to explain why, despite having one, he didn’t use it to look down the doggy path and therefore not see TM
         * partly trying to get it going was excuse for why he spent so much time up there (wanted it on to see his way back to his truck, the headlights of which had gone off per timer).
         * BUT it is an ADMISSION OF SORTS that he WOULD have looked down the path to see TM had the light been working.

         The banging noises in the tape, that people thought might be banging in the gun magazine, would have been the flashlight.

         Considering some theories that flashlights are seen around the clubhouse earlier (in the clubhouse videos) , it is not impossible he had flattened the battery checking around there.

     • I’ve had a chance to draw a new map per Zimmerman’s reenactment and there are definitely some discrepancies. The analysis is in the Update section. Specifically, there’s a 26 second gap in Zimmerman’s timing AND the unarmed teen circling his vehicle near the cut throughs after Trayvon has already run behind the houses is literally impossible.

       

291. Best thing for GZ in the re-enactment. He states he rolled over on top on TM after firing the shot, which is consistent enough with the multiple witness statements that have him on top before he gets up.

     Second best thing for GZ in the re-enactment: He says TM told him to “Shut the F up.” while he (GZ) was yelling for help. This could be consistent with the second voice Alan Reich has identified on W11’s 911 call just after ‘Jeremy’ says, “They need to come now.”

     Worst thing for GZ in the re-enactment. It still doesn’t explain how a guy woozy from a serious head-beating, with his arms pinned under his assailant’s legs get’s hold of his gun and puts bullet right through the guy’s ventricle.

     The case comes down to how the physical struggle began and what happened during the struggle prior to the shot. There are multiple inconsistencies between the re-enactment and GZ’s police call, enough to undermine the credibility of his memory if not his truthfulness, but these all refer to events before the confrontation.

     • Haven’t watched it yet… If he rolled over on top of TM, then wouldn’t TM be on his back? Does anything address GZ flipping him onto his stomach, or why his hands were on Trayvon’s back?

       • As I understand it, the fatal shot Zimmerman fired would have left Trayvon immediately speechless, unresponsive, and completely incapable of continuing to struggle/fight.

         If that’s true, you can throw out Zimmerman saying Trayvon mentioned “You got me.” You can also throw out Zimmerman stating he felt Trayvon up in an attempt to apprehend/detain him until police arrived.

     • I don’t believe one thing that GZ state’s Trayvon said…I would bet that he was doing all the cussing since he’s trying to assert some sort of authority…”Shut the F up” while Trayvon was screaming!!!

       • Also notice in his written statement he refers to Trayvon as the ‘suspect’! Got some damn nerve! The officers and investigators didn’t even do that.

       • This goes back to a previous assertion that I had. That being — Zimmerman purposely muddied the waters by stating he was doing/saying whatever Trayvon was doing/saying.

         This is readily apparent already considering the two voice analysis experts absolutely confirmed that Zimmerman wasn’t the person crying for help.

         Again, Zimmerman’s parents both retired from law and he wanted to be a cop. Meaning, he definitely knows how to game a judicial system.

       • Speaking of asserting authority – pay attention to what the confessed killer says to Wendy Dorival while waiting for the stress test administrator. He asks her if she had ever shot someone? She says, no. He says, yeah, you seem stern enough that people will listen to you. I’m paraphrasing but it jumped out at me. I believe that there is an admission there that Trayvon would not comply.

         • I really need to figure out a better way to moderate comments — the app is driving me crazy because I can’t see what people are responding to. With that said and assuming there’s a link above that I can’t see…

           Is there a link for Zimmerman asking Wendy Dorival if she’s ever shot someone?

           What a weird ass question. That’s something a 7 year old asks. Shortly thereafter, the 7 year old’s parents scold the kid for asking such a question.

       • princss6 i think you are right. It’s like he’s saying well you wouldn’t have to shoot because people would do what you say….in other words the suspect wouldn’t comply, as you said, so i had to shoot him. It is a really telling comment.

292. WOW even before they get OUT of the car (YAY NLME, HONDA as you said)……….. before they get out he has already contradicted at least 3 things he said on the phone which was all recorded.

     1) claims got out in order to look for address……..in the 911 TAPE he is clearly running, and admits to following Trayvon, and they didn’t ask for anything like an address until 1.5 mins later

     2) he DOES end up parked facing east, claiming something around north-west corner…… we might yet find out, when the bank CCTV shows up, that he followed him in from the main road.

     3) claims TOLD dispatcher on the phone about Trayvon circling his car. He did NOT.

     Now says he walked down to talk to TM, so was not jumped from behind. But TM was hiding behind some bush (which must have got ripped out overnight cos I can’t see one).

     No wonder some of the cops were not happy. Esp if by then they’d heard the original phone call.

     • He needs a bush or other obstruction, to explain why he could not see Trayvon anywhere within a ten to fifteen second circle as he walks back to his car. Because it’s all wide open space, there’s no way he could walked past anyone standing around that area, who could then jump him from behind, without having been seen first.

       That must have cause the cops great consternation, because the nearest hiding place would be some 30 to 40 seconds away at the least. How they could cover that distance without being heard, in less than a second or two, is well, unimaginable to say the least.

       No, what I think happened is Trayvon went up TTL to the last houses and went around back north east to his house. GZ realized that he should never have been back there, so he simply cuts all that out and puts himself on
       the foot path, walking over east to RTVC, and back.

       Still, even that doesn’t work. Notice how the detectives are a bit stunned as GZ tries to explain how he got from just west of the “T” with Trayvon walking towards him, to way back over there where the body was found? GZ tries to change the subject, but finally just let’s it drop.

     • In the reenactment he keeps repeating how he was walking when it is quite obvious he was running at some point which is shown in his voice level and panting out of breath on the recorded dispatch tape.
       On the video I also noticed a few small trees on TTL back entrance which could explain some of GZ’s facial scratches.

293. http://news.yahoo.com/video-shows-zimmermans-account-fatal-fight-114313538.html

     The story above quotes a defense lawyer (McChesney) who, after watching the video wonders why GZ would holster his weapon and jump on Trayvon’s back instead of holding him at gunpoint from a few feet away.

     That does seem odd, now that he mentions it.

     And what was GZ doing on Trayvon’s back? GZ claims holding Trayvon’s arms down. Weird.

     Mary and Selma saw GZ’s hands on Trayvon’s neck. Was GZ choking him? Mary made searching movements with her hands on ACC. GZ searching for weapons seems like a reasonable guess.

     • Well, I’ve wondered a few times about holstering the gun. Watch that part of the movie (that’s what it is) where he shows how he held off Trayvon’s hand and drew the gun. Not from the holster. Pocket (but then TM wouldn’t see it) or already in his hand.

       Nice and loose, a quick shot. Nice little kick-back to crack his nose and he DROPS the gun. That’s why he “has” to jump on Trayvon, who after taking a hollow-point to the heart is still supposedly fighting back (oh after saying some dramatic final words) , and why he had to do something with the gun, so he holstered it.

       Nothing’s really changed, it just further confirms what we’ve all been thinking.

294. HAHAHAHA

     The police ask him in the car “where did you pick him up at?” meaning where did he first see Trayvon. He points and says this house here, here, this one, and the police says “this one? 1460” and he says YES.

     Guess what guys, 1460 RVC is Frank Taaffe’s place.

     How long ago did we posit that as very likely??

     After that the whole reenactment is by a GZ from a parallel dimension, as word after word is a total contradiction of the RECORDED PHONE CALL. Times when things were said totally out of order, things he claims he said which he did NOT, things he claims the dispatcher said which oddly enough none of US can hear………

     Now we badly need that bank video to show he can NOT have been driving UP RVC on his way to the shops cos he’d already been……..

     • GZ must also have psychic ability…did you hear him say that when he left to go to the store…and “just got feeling something was off”…LOL!!! Poor thing…just PITIFUL!!!

       • (Again, not to get all political on this posting but) This statement by Zimmerman reminded me of when dubya used to brag about making crucial decisions – most of them VERY wrong – based on a gut feeling.

         The way Zimmerman said he had a feeling that something was off is incredibly eerie seeing that we know nothing AT ALL was off. Well, other than his murder of course.

         • Speaking of W, Will Ferrell, in an interview with Charlie Rose, made a remark about playing characters with “unearned confidence”.

           unitron

295. GZ’s statements are coming out…
     The link below is the one he made on Feb. 26th.

     Click to access written_statement_0226.pdf

     In that statement he starts with explaining the sequence of events that lead to the creation of the NW. I found it interesting to start this way, but lets move on.

     He then explains that he was on his way to the grocery store when he noticed TM walking casually watching houses. If that’s true then he spotted TM soon after he entered the gated community. We’ve been discussing on how long GZ watched TM before calling SPD. We know TM left the 7-11 at 6:30 and could have been at the clubhouse by 6:45. DeeDee’s statement together with the t-mobile call log suggest TM was at the mailboxes by 6:54. So, GZ’s statement is indeed indicating that he spent many minutes (possibly 15min) before calling SPD. This is something a NW is not supposed to do. This is also something he didn’t mention in his statement.

     GZ then explains he pulled over his truck and called 911. There I was wondering if he was not admitting that he kept on driving across the complex regularly passing by the clubhouse/mailboxes to check on TM before calling SPD. The clubhouse videos show cars passing by from time to time. Most of the headlights one can see could be from GZ’s. I’ll try to have a more serious analysis of the boring clubhouse videos.

     GZ next states that he gave dispatcher his location and TM fled to a darkened area of the sidewalk before emerging from darkness to circle his car before running again. This story will appear seriously twisted to anyone who heard the 911 tape. I see two possible way of explaining what he is talking about: 1) He is just trying to embellish his story by suggesting TM really looked after him, 2) He’s telling about events that took place before the 911 call but places them within the time of the call. I find the 2nd explanation really interesting as it would fit with the theory of a long watch prior to the 911 call. I don’t particularly mean that TM was aware of GZ watching him. He may just have rushed to the mailboxes because of the rain. But, since GZ was already suspicious of TM, he believed he ran to hide from him. Then, I can picture GZ circling the community within his truck, passing by the clubhouse again and again before pulling over to call 911.

     Then GZ states TM disappeared again between the break of homes. This must be when TM ran as we know from the call and from DeeDee’s statement.

     GZ follows by claiming that he exited his truck only to look for a street sign so he could give the name of the street to the dispatcher. This is a straight lie. We all know from the tape that GZ ran after TM. So, he wants us to believe that he never went after the kid, and he fails big time.

     A funny thing though is that he later admits dispatcher told him not to follow TM. So, he is clearly aware of what it means when it comes to his self-defense claim. So again, he tries to make us believe that he complied and walked back to his truck, and again George Zimmerman fails as we all know that he could have went home by foot within the time of his “OK” to the time of the gunshot.

     Then comes the final chapter of his self defense story. Again, TM comes out of darkness to confront him, knock him down, jump on top of him and beat the help out of him. GZ obviously cried for help. TM obviously threatened to kill him. So, he obviously shot TM 1st. This account doesn’t fit with witness statements that recount a longer period of arguments prior to the cries for help. Witnesses 06 & 11 actually say that the arguing peoples where moving from the T area toward them. Witness 18 noticed a gap of time between the initial argument and the cries for help. Witness saw 1 or 2 person running north before a fistfight. Finally, DeeDee (wit #8) heard GZ tired asking “what are you doing here?” before a bump noise. This account doesn’t explain the spread of items found on the ground from the Honda keys at the T to TM’s body 2 houses down the dog walk.

     Finally, the closing chapter, TM is defeated, GZ wins. Except that it doesn’t match evidences.
     I’ll begin with the claim that TM said “you got me” while experiencing:1) a massive heart attack caused by a hollow point projectile that perforated his heart, 2) a massive hemorrhage due to his heart pumping 40% of his blood in the pleural cavities, and 3) an asphyxiation due to the perforated lung rendering breathing very difficult. This is extremely unlikely that TM did or said anything from the gunshot on. He just collapsed unconscious and died in the following minutes.
     The other inconsistency is that GZ claims that he jumped on TM’s back and held his hands away from his body. Police found TM with his hands under his body. So, whodunit?

     Conclusion, GZ has some explaining to do.

     • As always, wonderful comment.

       I cover some of Zimmerman’s video reenactment discrepancies in the Update section. I read your comment (but didn’t check the link yet) and if there’s something glaring I didn’t include in the Update section, please let me know.

     • He also tells bold face lie when saying that he told the operator that he was returning to his truck and they could meet him there. I wonder, if after the 911 call was released, and he listened to it…he had to be kicking himself when realized that his reenactment and written statements don’t line up.

296. “Didn’t think I got him. Cos he sat up (SAT UP) and said You Got Me.”

     SAT UP?? from a straddling over face down position?

     Means sat back, I guess.

     The fight part of the story is almost word for word the same in the “stress test” interview. Not surprising. In a proper lie detector they ask single questions, in random order, to get a response. If they let someone tell a story he’s learned off by heart, of course he’s not going to show stress.

     In the video he seems to be placing the whole thing at least one full house further north than it happened.

     BUT only 1/4 of his head was on the concrete. But his head felt like it was going to explode. Yeah well I’ve had migraines like that plenty of times but I ever though shooting someone might make it feel better.

     • “In the video he seems to be placing the whole thing at least one full house further north than it happened.”

       I thought the exact same thing but didn’t look at a map and/or scale out the houses. Is this true?

       If so, it’s even more proof that Zimmerman knew he had to reenact the scene without admitting he pursued Trayvon south of the T.

       Dude is obviously an idiot (lying under oath during the bond hearing) but he (almost) planned out the walkthrough pretty damn well.

       • That’s correct, GZ places the scuffle between the T and Jeremy’s house, the the scuffle occurred one house down at John’s.

         If you look carefully his facial language in the video, he seems to be realizing that something’s wrong. He then tries to reduce the error to make it more acceptable. Let me explain that. He first explain that TM walks to him as he already just passed the T junction toward his truck. So, he is north of Jeremy’s. He turns back, he reaches for his phone and he is punched to the ground. But then, he pauses in his story. Don’t forget that this is the moment he is supposed to be straddled by TM. Then, GZ walks back his story a bit explaining that actually TM tried to reach on him. You can see GZ making large moves with his hands kind of a shoo fly shoo. Then magically, GZ is on the ground again with TM straddling him. And still, when it comes to John’s moment, you can see in his eyes that he realizes he is off by one house. So, after showing precisely the location of the altercation, he suddenly is vague: “One neighbor over there…” [or something of that effect as I work from memory].

         He is right when he says that the altercation covered the T. We have the Honda key + small flashlight to prove it. But then, they had to move south by at least 40feet before fighting as TM’s body + all of his items where found two houses down. He failed explaining that.
         The same way he failed explaining why it took him ~2.5min to walk from the RVC end of the T to the junction of the T.
         Bottom line, his story can’t cover neither the time nor the space it is supposed to. This is the main result of the discussion we had for months in this blog. The release of his written statement and the reenactment video just confirms it with great details.

         • Thank you for the confirmation. I’ll add this MAJOR discrepancy tomorrow. Any others that I missed?

           I noted the same body language and facial expressions as you did. It’s basically the “Oh shiat, this story isn’t adding up, is it?” expression. We are self described amateurs – well, I am at least – so, why didn’t police and professional investigators pick up on this?!?

           I think I disagree with this unless I’m reading/understanding it wrong…

           “He is right when he says that the altercation covered the T. We have the Honda key + small flashlight to prove it.”

           Meaning, seeing that Zimmerman was spotted meandering north after the shot occurred, the keychain flashlight’s location means nothing to me in regards to the altercation starting/occurring at the T.

           Or, was the flashlight keychain noticed at the T before Zimmerman started walking north?

           • I’m sure they did, but their job is not to show it! They’re supposed to build up the speakers confidence so that they will keep talking, not issue challenges that will make them fearful and stop. So, If GZ were to say that the moon fell on him, they’d probably just ask him what direction if came from… “If you know?” Lol.

             GZ stops himself and goes to mumbling, because even he realizes, while looking at the area, what he’s saying is just too far from the truth to be believed. The only clue as to what the police are thinking is, note how they shift at that point. They appear to be trying to suppress even this little indication, but the story is just to grossly out of whack for them to prevent themselves from marking it.

       • NMLE,

         Concerning the honda key, I understand that there is a theory that GZ dropped them there after the gunshot. I have to say I’m not really fan of it for reasons that I have already explained in previous posts.

         Concerning other discrepancies… Well there are many I’ve found in the audio recording of his interrogation on Feb 26th. I just can’t keep them all up at this point as it is late and I’m getting tired. Cf. the link.
         http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/

         One discrepancy is that he claims that he was still on Trayvon when wit #13 came over with his flash light. We know from many witnesses he was already up walking toward the T.
         The second discrepancy is that he claims he asked wit #13 for help to keep TM to the ground as he was still under the impression that TM wasn’t actually shot. Again, he was up pacing by TM’s body as explained by Selma & Mary, but also wit #12, #13 & #18.
         A 3rd discrepancy is when he says he doesn’t know where TM came from when he came to circle his car. I the SPD call, he describes TM walking toward him for 30min. This is when we can sense that he starts panicking.
         I mean 30min is long enough to give a general indication of from where TM was coming from.
         As 4th, I remember that his story concerning why he went out of the car is totally off. He literally states that he went looking for an address because dispatch asked for one. He also dares saying that when dispatch asked if he was following him, he answered no because he actually had no idea of where TM was.
         Another big discrepancy is when he states that he asked dispatcher to meet at his car and then walked back to his. On tape, in indeed agreed to meet police at the mailboxes, but suddenly he changed his mind and asks for being called because he, as he said himself, he has no clue about where he will be. So, he was stating that he is not returning to his truck, he is not going to the mailbox, he had something else in mind but he could not say where he will be.

         One point of interest also is that he claims he parked in front of the clubhouse, called SPD and only later drove to TTL where TM would come to him and circle his car. Basically, he has ~1min from the beginning of his call, to when he sees TM again coming toward him. In that minute, he describes where he saw TM, the pull away his vehicle from the parking spot, then drive to near the cut through on TTL. On time to see TM coming toward him again. I listened to the GZ’s SPD call again searching for any indication that he was driving as he had to switch gears at least 2 times (from park-2-rear, from rear-2-drive), he had to turn the steering wheel for 2 short radius turns (to back off the parking place, and to turn right in TTL). I can’t hear any of this.

         • Excellent synopsis of discrepancies — thank you.

           As diaryofasuccessfulloser noted, did you listen to Part 3 of Serino’s interview from 2/29 yet?

           In case people (like me…ha!) have missed the link hosting all the interviews and reenactments:

           http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/30-george-zimmerman-s-statements

           Wowser. After listening to just part 3 of Serino’s interview, I now understand what de la Rionda was referring to during the bond hearing.

           I haven’t listened to any of the other interviews — I plan to do so during my morning commute — but I assume they aren’t this bad/forgetful. Otherwise, Zimmerman would never have been a free man for even a few hours/days after the shooting.

       • Ok, not sure if this was pointed out yet…OS has Pt. 1 & 2 raw video of GZ re-enactment and what should be viewed to get full scope from time they pick him up at his house. What I heard after they pull in to clubhouse parking lot is, GZ say that he lost site of Trayvon because he turned right at the clubhouse onto, “TTL”!!! That’s right ladies and gents, he knew full well the street name and that it wraps all they way around. But you couldn’t remember just 24 hrs ago what street it was?!

         • “That’s right ladies and gents, he knew full well the street name and that it wraps all they way around. But you couldn’t remember just 24 hrs ago what street it was?!”

           Nice observation!

     • I listened to #1 & #2 from the Feb 29th interview.
       In #1 Serino is mostly working based on TM’s character. Basically, what his question is: this kid isn’t the thug you claim he is so, [assuming what you’re saying is true] what made him snap? He couldn’t get any convincing answer. We all know GZ ran after TM and failed identifying himself to TM as a concerned NW captain.
       In #3 Serino reviews the GZ’s SPD call and W11 911 call and points to all the discrepancies I pointed to afer reading GZ’s written statement. Particularly that 1) he couldn’t have called from the front door of the clubhouse, 2) he didn’t leave his truck after dispatcher’s demand for an address, 3) he couldn’t have just walked to the RVC end of the T and walk back to his truck as time is too long, 4) there is no indication the cries for help were muffled as he claimed TM put his hands o his mouth, 5)…

       The two tapes are really important and interesting. I think we can be proud of the collective work we made in the past several month as we discussed and tackled most of the critical elements in GZ’s story without having access to his statements. We were only using the 911 tapes and witness statements and we got a huge chunk of the story right. The only part I’m still not satisfy with is the paths both TM & GZ took to end up at the T at 7:16
       Anyhow, I cheer for the team. GREAT JOB GUYS…

       • “I think we can be proud of the collective work we made in the past several month as we discussed and tackled most of the critical elements in GZ’s story without having access to his statements. We were only using the 911 tapes and witness statements and we got a huge chunk of the story right.”

         I fully agree — it truly is amazing. I’ve worked on some team centric (yes, that’s an annoying buzzword) jobs and literally nothing has compared to the collaboration seen here.

       • The biggest kicker for me when Serino plays W11’s 911 call for the confessed killer. He does not recognize the voice screaming!!!!!! Explosive. Serino tells him a few times, that is you screaming. The confessed killer says he doesn’t recognize his own voice. Yeah, right! I recognize the difference in my dog’s barks and know what she wants so no damn way, he wouldn’t recognize his own voice! That’s in Part 3 of the interview FYI. That to me is pretty daming.

         • At the 17:17 mark!!!

297. damn i feel like i miss so much with the time difference…i have to go out now so can’t even view the reenactment but it sure sounds interesting….

     • Make sure you view the full reenactment! The blip ABC News, Gawker, etc. has decided to cover is meh.

298. a witness said gz tried to detain martin

     http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

     • They must have gone back and taken that part out because there’s no memtion of it now.

       unitron

     • could be witness 4 7 or 10 that was left out of the discovery dump one.

299. Raw unedited video with no commercial breaks……..

     http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/trayvon-martin-extended-coverage/Raw-Video-George-Zimmerman-reenacts-incident-for-Sanford-Police/-/14266478/15193200/-/eyldi0/-/index.html

     Can someone find the 3-parter with Serino Feb 29 in a decent format? the ones I’ve found all want to play with Widows Media Player and are around 80Mb files. 80Mb they’re kidding, must be his SUV in there, too.

     • Anything new seen other than what’s here?

       http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-reenactment-on-feb-27/vcQxd/

       Trying to blow through the pending comments and hit the hay so I haven’t watched the video in the link you posted.

     • Aussie,

       You can find the 3 part Serino interrogation right on the gzlegalcase.com too. Everything but the reenactment video were posted there last night, to include the list of reciprocal discovery.

300. In the entire interview of February 29 (Part 3) interview, he could not explain the inconsistencies to his 911 call at all. He kept saying he didn’t remembr. Every time there was an issue with something that didn’t add up, he plead loss of recollection. How can people who believe that this was a case of self-defense still believe it after listening to all of the accounts?

     • Thank you for the comment.

       Do you have a link? It may be posted up above — I’m on my phone and can’t tell — but, I’d love to see any/all versions of his story.

     • That interview is a CLASSIC. “I wasn’t following him. I was just going in the same direction” and “yeah at the same time”, adds the policewoman.

       This is the one where Serino and another cop play the tape to him, phrase by phrase, and ask him where he was and what doing at that moment.

301. NLME- So, are you going to update the “map” to coincide with GZ’s statements and reenactment? Curious.

     Very telling that GZ’s responses start becoming “I don’t know” or “I can’t remember” when important questions are asked like, how did he run, jog, sprint? And, how was he slamming your head into the concrete, by the ears, etc.? And which arm was Trayvon using to go for your gun? I sure hope the prosecution can show that this guy is bending the facts drastically.

     • I put together an updated map based on Zimmerman’s reenactment video.

       The map – along with some
       discrepancies in Zimmerman’s reenactment – should be in the Update section of this posting (or else I completely wasted a tremendous amount of time).

       Let me know if it’s not showing up for you so I can figure out WTF is going on.

     • CherokeeNative, Zimmermans dad didn’t get a chance to prep him on that because he didn’t think Serino would ask these types of questions. Zimmerman had been allowed to go home free and clear. daddy came to the reenactment because he wanted to make sure George stuck to the story that they went over. But you can always depend on George to screw up, you see he is a little off and without drugs to make him concentrate he can’t keep it all together. This is the problem with lies anyway, you have to keep telling one after another forgetting each one every time. If you were in the right then you could answer every question legitimately. Cherokee we all know he is lieing and I can say Serino did a good job. I cant wait for trial, there is no way Omara can put him on the stand but there is no way he could not put him on the stand. I am sure at the bond hearing when he said he didnt know how old he was, that had to be a slip because Omara knows he stated while out of danger and in his vehicle that he was young, so he cant say he was under stress. Omara knows it will be a nightmare putting him on the stand. If I were prosecution I would call all the witnesses that would get him angered inside and then I would go in for the kill. Good catch Cherokee!!

302. @NMLE: I just wanted to point out one more major inconsistency in GZ’s re-enactment. He never admits to telling the dispatcher to tell them to call him instead of meet him by the truck/mailboxes. He left out his intent at that moment purposely hoping no one would notice… This is a part of the nail in the coffin.

     • Good call.

       As it was mentioned recently by Will, Zimmerman remembers a ton of VERY specific stuff from that night but (casually) can’t recall basic yet crucial information and apparently omits other important details.

303. 2: 41 in the movie At the start when they’re outside Taaffe’s place 1460 RVC, strange…… “…. looking at the house. Like I said my wife was // … I’d just left for the grocery store and I felt there was something off about him…”

     Like the call tape, we have to listen to the background, the uhms and ahhs, the side information. The story he’s telling isn’t right. It’s what he says without meaning to that is going to tell the story.

     While parked at the clubhouse he KNOWS it is Twin Trees Lane. 5 car lengths down (on the wrong side of the road) he forgets. ggggggggrrrrrrrr

     O’mara only released these because the learned-by-heart fight/killing bits are the same in this and in the “stress test” interview. He didn’t compare them against the TAPE.

     The tap tap tapping likely was him smacking the big flashlight, here he says he had one but it was dead.

     Claims he agreed to meet them at clubhouse and TOLD the cops it’s a Honda Ridgeline. No he didn’t, that one we know for SURE, otherwise NLME wouldn’t have spent 100 hours listening to door chimes in commercials.

     11.30 nice little freudian slip “put hs hand on his nose ahm on my nose….”

     First Interview with investigator Singleton — GZ’s PHONE IS THERE he uses it to look up the number for the manager that might know about surveillance tapes. So it’s not n evidence, they must have given it back to him later?

     TELLS HER he was driving, so why don’t they go back to look for his vehicle? no time on the tape but can’t be very much after (and maybe before Shellie took it).

     • I’m not following some of what you’re saying but I assume there’s a link up above that I’m missing and/or haven’t read/watched.

       I do agree with the following though…oh, my bleeding ears!!! Hahaha

       “Claims he agreed to meet them at clubhouse and TOLD the cops it’s a Honda Ridgeline. No he didn’t, that one we know for SURE, otherwise NLME wouldn’t have spent 100 hours listening to door chimes in commercials.”

       • What jumps out at me even more now than it did before is: At the cut through near Taaffe’s house, GZ says he came through there, just as Trayvon was continuing on his walk. Notice how slowly the police are driving and yet, how quickly they come upon this spot. I’d think that GZ would have been moving quite a bit faster, and he’d have had to start out driving, while the rain was heavy and just letting up.

         If he reasoned that the heavy rain had caused Trayvon to pause for it, because Trayvon wasn’t quite as wet as he should have been, if he had walked through the heavy rain. Then the time for this “chance” meeting is cut to about 1 to 2 seconds, out of the entire possible range of available times.

         If GZ had stopped for as little as perhaps 5 to 10 seconds before leaving, or if he had left only 5 or 10 seconds earlier, he’d have completely missed Trayvon.

         But, he didn’t miss him, in spite of this small window in time. That has to mean that he laid in wait outside Taaffe’s for TM to emerge. The SP probably already has the text message or phone call from Taaffe that alerted GZ to come down. O’Mara certainly would not want to release it, so all the SP has to do is wait. It will be very telling if O’Mara has this information and isn’t releasing it. That will be “shock and awe”.

       • I’m 100% with you when you say that the odds for GZ to cross path with TM are tiny. This is a point I raised a while ago. It is in fact much much more likely that GZ spotted TM when he was at the mailboxes.

         We have indications from DeeDee’s statement and the TM’s call log that TM spent a significant amount of time (up to 30min) at the mailboxes.

         So, either TM was very unlucky that night, or GZ has been tipped off by his buddy Frank T, or GZ lies.

         I personally lean toward the lie. I’m so used to it by now. Why would he lie? Well, GZ may have felt that placing the beginning of his story where a previous break in occurred, may give credence to it. Personally, I find it odd.

         In any events, he lied when saying that he parked at the front of the club house to call 911 [timing forbids]. So, the whole description of how he ended up spotting TM is in question.

     • aussie…Yes! I posted up above that he knew he was on TTL. His ship is FULL OF HOLES and sinking fast!

       • Now makes sense why they requested clubhouse video…he claims to have pulled in and parked and Trayvon walks by looking at his car.

         • I mean — Zimmerman always seems to have some sort of weird out but if there’s no video of him parking on the north side of the clubhouse, this would be yet another (insurmountable?) strike to his already tarnished credibility.

           I have a feeling that only “soft evidence” (I don’t really have a definition for this phrase) has been released and there’s something “major” coming that will blow his defense wide open. Yes, even something more damning than DeeDee’s witness account.

       • @ “tchoupi.caillou Says:

         June 22, 2012 at 10:59 am

         I’m 100% with you when you say that the odds for GZ to cross path with TM are tiny. This is a point I raised a while ago. It is in fact much much more likely that GZ spotted TM when he was at the mailboxes.

         We have indications from DeeDee’s statement and the TM’s call log that TM spent a significant amount of time (up to 30min) at the mailboxes.

         So, either TM was very unlucky that night, or GZ has been tipped off by his buddy Frank T, or GZ lies.”

         Wait… TM spent 30 minutes at the mailboxes?

         I know that I’m not apprehending some facts and am, therefore, forced to work with GZ’s lies. But, TM spending 30 minutes at the mail boxes has got to distort the timelines significantly.

         I’d start with the time TM left the 711 and go all the way to the kill time.
         Within that time we have to find thirty minutes of “dead time”, off hand I’d say that would have been hard to miss, since it requires GZ doing little to nothing for 30 minutes as well?

         Ah well, I guess everyone has to pull back for a while, this thing keeps getting even more confusing, because each time we discover another GZ lie, that leads to the discovery of yet another lie, on and on. Meanwhile you discover the earlier lies render the assumptions that were made about later parts of the saga, inoperable.

         At least now, since the bail hearing, we know why so much confusion exists. Before the bail hearing we had to give GZ the benefit of telling as much truth has he could possibly know, and if mistaken, put that down to confusion. Now we know that he’s simply prone to telling outrageous lies, and can do so with a straight face, even while visions of what really happened still play in his head. This guy is one for the books!

304. Here is a link to everthing that the defense attorney posted on his page: http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/30-george-zimmerman-s-statements

     • Perfect — thank you!

       I read that a link releasing the reenactment existed on GZ’s legal team’s site but had no idea they released so much other content too.

       So much content, so little time — I literally spent half of today breaking down Zimmerman’s reenactment video.

       Anybody care to highlight some key things from…

       http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/30-george-zimmerman-s-statements

     • Thanks!

       @NLME – to answer your question above re: discussion with Wendy Dorival, you will find it at the beginning of the CVSA video from 2/27. Dorival is also the person who worked with to establish neighborhood watch.

       http://gzlegalcase.com/documents/statements/video_interview_cvsa_0227.asf

       from…

       http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/30-george-zimmerman-s-statements

305. Re the newest maps

     I’ve had him facing east from months ago. Everyone insisted on west BUT turns out he should have been facing west from there — he parked on the incorrect side of the street.

     One interview he says he had the lights of the truck to go by, to the T. Then he went through to RVC to look for the house number. And hung about trying to get his torch going because he didn’t want to go back in the dark (and the headlghts turn off on a timer).

     Strange, he places himself at the clubhouse, and Trayvon approaching him from behind still walking on RVC. We always assumed TM sheltering at the clubhouse and GZ being further along. DeeDee tends to back up the sheltering.

     He has a lot of trouble (Serino interview #3) remembering when he moved from clubhouse to facing the pathway. Before or after the “he’s running” bit. He tries to use looking for an address as the excuse for leaving the vehicle, although there’s no discussion of address until after he already left it.

     These are precisely the things Serino & Co were catching him out on.

     ===============
     For ours, not a lot has changed, as this is essentially the same story we’ve had from him, albeit through surrogates, all along. And doesn’t matter who is telling it, the times do NOT ADD UP. Also he claims to have been somewhat afraid when Trayvon was “circling” with “hand in waistband” so why get out of the vehicle?

     I still bady want to see what the M&I Bank video is about.

     • “I still bady want to see what the M&I Bank video is about.”

       It occured to me that the state may have grabbed that footage just because that’s the next nearest surveillance camera to the neighborhood, and got nothing for their troubles but eyestrain, but, having grabbed it, they had to put it in the record that they had it, and of course that meant they had to share it with O’Mara.

       unitron

306. wow ok so there is a lot i have to catch up on…but just on a few articles i have seen it seems serino was onto him and pointed out many of the things that we have discussed here…such as zim not knowing the 3 streets in the neighbourhood, that he jumping out of his car is not behaviour of a scared man, no defensive wounds, only one wound on trayvon, the fact that getting your head smashed does not only leave 2 surface cuts..more like fractured skull. And the way he tried to get zim to spill more info by saying “you’re the good guy” etc, and if you were trying to do the right thing i can understand why you would try to detain him…serino was after the truth. I would like to know if they heard from the anonymous witness that said zimmerman was trying to detain martin. …maybe that is in evidence yet to be released. That is something we hadn’t heard before, maybe they witnessed it all. Zimmerman has gone down even lower in my opinion after this latest release of evidence. His goose is cooked. Also, if trayvon “sat up” after being shot then he must have been laying on george when shot……how then, may i ask, was there a distance between the gun and martin??? We also now know that he was following martin in his car, he said so. This is not going well for zimmerman. Thank God Trayvons parents were not satisfied with their dear son being just another statistic.

     • From what I’ve heard during “Audio Recorded Interview with Investigator Serino on February 29 (Part 3),” Zimmerman will most likely have to recant the “I originally parked on the north side of the clubhouse, called 911, and then followed Trayvon on Twin Trees in my car as instructed” story.

       Meaning, the original location of his parked vehicle (for the life of me I can’t figured out the strategy behind it) doesn’t seem to be panning out since A) Zimmerman can’t recall any details from around the :01 through 2:00 mark of his 911 call and B) The timing, in general, doesn’t seem to add up.

       Does the clubhouse has exterior cameras facing north? I’d expect Zimmerman to know answers like this in advance.

       • No video of the front parking made public so far.

         However, there are videos of the front door and the game room that show headlights of cars passing on RVC. I can already tell you that there is no sign of a car parking/stopping at the front of the clubhouse in the first 20min of front door video. Reviewing those videos is a slow and painful process ;oP

     • Jo, I’d stated in previous post that there very well could’ve been witness from RVC rear facing homes looking down the ‘T’ that may have ‘silently’ viewed the entire encounter but remained anonymous. I’m interested in where this leads…

       • My impression of the third Serino interview was, he’s trying to make GZ explain discrepancies, on the excuse of being on GZ’s side but having to be able to explain things to the public.

         The mention of an anonymous witness “seeing him trying to detain” seemed to me a fib. An oblique way of saying “are you sure you didn’t try to detain him?”. Saying there was a supposed witness should lead to a strong denial, or accusation of witness being mistaken. There was no strong denial. I’ll have to listen again.

         It is strange that people will commit MURDER yet worry about telling an outright lie. How often do they say “I WOULDN’T do that” instead of “I DID NOT” just to avoid an outright untrue denial.

307. I’m having some trouble keeping up here…i just listened to the first interview..these were my initial observations that may seem a bit rambling but they are just the points that made me say WHAAAAAAAT? I’m now off to see the other stuff released and will probably bore you with another knee jerk report of things that may…or may not be of interest.

     Notes of interest (basically just me talking to myself)
     First interview, singleton…part 1..26th
     – Started neighbourhood watch with …? And buchanon (was this investigating officer)
     – Know all residents…? Really, he knew brandy green and the other witnesses who failed to identify him..don’t think so.
     – Leisurely walking, raining, looking at all the houses. When zim drove by (how slow did you drive by)..he stopped and looked (ooooh call the police….oh that’s right he did)
     – He was walking casually, not trying to get out of the rain (quick, shoot him)
     – Knowledge of camera recordings..”last time they were down”….(what last time?)

     Just my thought….the police did take this seriously, they did try to get to the bottom of it..whoever failed to charge him is to blame. Im starting to think the cops did the best they could….hold that thought though, it may change again.

     – He only has a bad memory sometimes…can’t remember street names but can remember off the top of his head who to contact about a camera that may or may not be working.
     – He shot someone, where is your fucking lawyer? How stupid … or out of touch with reality must you be.
     – In front of the same house I had called the police before to come…..(why not say in front of my friends house, no mention that he knows the guy who lives there.)
     – Ok now I’m confused….he saw the guy in front of taaffes house (or that’s what I read, he initially saw him at that address)….pulled to the side, lost sight of him, he reappeared….has he just jumped forward on this to the other side of the sport centre???
     – Circling car….ok here we go
     – As soon as I saw him I rolled up my windows…???(wasn’t it raining, but your windows were down.???)
     – He got out of his car to see a street sign, although the “suspect” didn’t run down a street but between houses.
     – He went through the dog walk where he walks his dog (but he doesn’t know where he is?) and back to his street that loops around???????? ( So is he saying he walked east to his street that loops around, or did he go south and then have to walk in another direction to get to his street….he walked to his street….????)
     – I said yes and told them where my car was….thought you didn’t know where you were?
     – As soon as he punched me I fell backwards into the GRASS….GRASS
     – Then he was hitting his head into the pavement and he tried to slide into the grass??
     – I don’t remember anything….but when I slid my jacket and shirt came up … (seems detailed for someone who can’t remember)
     – NO WAY….i felt his hand go for my firearm…and as he banged my head again I pulled out my fire arm and shot him…how the fuck did he bang your head as he was going for your gun asshole….
     – FUCK OFF….once I shot him I holstered my firearm….really…really….then I got on top of him and he was still talking and I said don’t move….really. You had time to holster your firearm after shooting a kid through the heart even though you can’t remember what happened because your head was gonna explode and he was still talking…..you *)&%::??>*$%^&^$%….ahem…excuse me.
     – He said “ow ow”…ok I hope he’s lying but im gonna cry a little bit here.
     – “they always come around night time”
     – “early twenties, late teens”……
     – “they said I didn’t” need to go to emt
     – So he said you can walk straight through or you can go this way..i walked straight through..and then he came out of the darkness…??did he go straight through or south In the re-enactment? I haven’t got to the reenactment yet.

308. I believe the confessed killer explains what he did before he shot Trayvon. Witness #6’s revised statement says the MMA-style hold. It seemed to me he meant that the person on top had his hands out holding the person on the bottom hands out. The confessed killer says he did this to Trayvon after he shot him.

     1) Either that is what Trayvon was during to restrain the confessed killer while calling for help and the confessed killer is saying he did that himself
     2) John was watching after Trayvon was shot and is saying he saw it before he was shot for some odd reason
     3) The confessed killer did this to Trayvon before he was shot as John said which shows he had some control and was on top. Afterall, in mind, there is no question his goal was to detain Trayvon as he did in the past, i.e. the shoplifter

309. I believe that GZ went down the sidewalk between the townhomes despite the fact that he is telling LE that he never left the T. I think he was startled when he came upon Trayvon. I also believe that GZ had his gun drawn at that moment, or he drew it at the point when he saw Trayvon and tried to detain Trayvon – that is when Trayvon says, “get off get off” and then he punches GZ causing GZ to fall at which point Trayvon jumps on top of him. But I believe the gun was drawn by the time that GZ hit the ground. I don’t think GZ pulled the gun out of its holster after Trayvon was on top of him. That is made up by GZ to avoid the fact that his gun was not concealed as required. GZ and Shellie are the type of people who would have most likely thought through many different scenarios of what they would do if they were ever in a situation to have to use their guns. GZ made it a habit of following suspicious people within the development. He most likely had already thought of what he would do and say to LE should one of his “suspects” ever turn on him. The fact that he cannot describe what type of “running” Trayvon did, or what arm Trayvon used to go for the gun, and that he wasn’t afraid to get out of his vehicle to go after Trayvon into the darkness, but then all of a sudden is afraid when it comes time to return to his vehicle is all very telling that his story was not all that vetted by GZ by the time he had to respond to questioning by LE.

310. NLME- Do all comments go through moderation, or is it just for newbies? Just curious. Thanks for the great work you are doing on this case.

     • All comments.

       If there’s a way to flag repeat commenters so moderation isn’t needed on a WordPress.com (so, not WordPress.org) site, that would be awesome!

       Or, is this sort of partial comment moderation set by theme not type of blog?

311. One more comment – In the videos, GZ tells how he was sitting on top of Trayvon when the LE arrive – yet, the witnesses say that GZ was up walking around before LE arrived. Also, he states that when the witness comes out after he is on top of Trayvon, he says the gun is on the ground – but later, he says it is holstered… So how’d the gun get back in the holster? Just some of the inconsistencies that I’ve noticed in his story.

     • Excellent point (and thank you for the comments)!

       Would you like to add your comment here?

       George Zimmerman Video Reenactment Lies and Interview Discrepancies

312. After listening to his statement with Det. Singleton on 2/26/12…I’m really convinced GZ has lost his friggin mind and believes he is someone of authority! What civilian person jumps on the back of person you shot in self defense and gives a command for them to stay down?! Not only is he not in a position to give orders to anyone…he thens attempts to commision help from his neighbor to help restrain the ‘suspect’! Clearly, that (alleged) cement head bashing must have knocked all his comman sense out!!!

313. It started to be too easy to find lies [let say discrepancies] in George Zimmerman’s statements. So, I started looking for truth.

     I may have found one true statement that is that he holstered his gun right after shooting Trayvon Martin.

     Poor George! By telling the truth once, you reveal your lies.
     Holstering your gun after firing means that you knew TM was hit. Otherwise, you would have stepped back and aimed at him to keep an hold on him until police arrives.

     I did my best looking for truth and I ended up with just one instance. That said I have some sort of admiration for sir George Zimmerman.

     The reasons? Because, when he is put in front of crying discrepancies, he doesn’t meltdown. He doesn’t try to fill the gaps with some new stories. He just goes through strikes of amnesia and sticks to his initial story. 99.9% of people on earth would have left the interview with Serino handcuffed. But not he.

     I see no other explanation but this man must be a psychopath who spent most of his life lying, pretending, playing roles, trumping people around him, and playing the victim each time things went wrong. “I have ADHD” he says opportunely. Or “I don’t remember” and again “My view was blurred” and again “Dispatcher asked for an address” and again “I had to shoot him”. Listening to him, he merely is normal guy going through crisis caused by misfortune or others. I have to say, he is very good at this.

     • Sorry to disillusion you, Tchoupi. That is another lie.

       a) witness heard him say the gun is on the ground, to one of the first witnesses that actually went outside
       b) I don’t know where you got the “holstered it after he shot…” the movie (that;s what I call the re-enactment video as it’s all fiction) shows him half demonstrating how he was holding Trayvon down, then a neighbour called out, then he saw a torch and asked it if’s the police, THEN he holstered the gun. And then he stands up, in the demo, and goes into detail about putting his hands up, being handcuffed etc.
       Never mind the police first saw him standing already and other witnesses saw him walking around etc before they arrived.

       I don’t know WHY he holstered it. But I DO believe the “on the ground” statement is true. It would have fallen from his grip after knocking him on the nose with the kickback (listen to the one yelp AFTER the shot in the 911 tape of the screaming). First thing he says to Flashlight is, “do I have blood on my face?”.

       “He doesn’t try to fill the gaps with some new stories. He just goes through strikes of amnesia and sticks to his initial story. ” he can’t think fast enough. When pulled up on not knowing the street names, he pulls out ADHD and bad memory as his excuse, not mentioned before.

       Also, Lonnie got it right, he just claims for himself actions that Trayvon took. All stuff witnesses may have seen. He can’t risk introducing something they didn’t see, now he knows by now there’s heaps of witnesses.

       “crisis caused by misfortune or others” is the story of his life. It has never ever been his fault. He is always the victim. That’s why he’s so convincing in this, he has the victim-ness down pat from years of experience.

       • He said during the jailhouse iterview which was on video that he was holding the gun in his hand while holding TM down.
         In the jailhouse interview everything happens at the T in the sidewalk, during the re enactment he ends up around ten paces down the sidewalk.
         Someone needs to make up new maps.
         One showing his re enactment story and the other according to the jailhouse interview.
         GZ said he left his home around seven but his non emergency call starts at approximately 7:10, it would not have taken long to drive to the Clubhouse.
         GZ evidently sat at the Clubhouse and watched TM for how long? GZ said in the re enactment that the police asked him to keep an eye on TM and that is a false statement.
         New maps would show that GZ is lying and the Prosecution is way far ahead of anyone on the web.
         I predict some sort of mental issue is what his defense will end up being and to tell the truth he comes across as “Coked Up” in his jail interview.
         He should have been drug tested on the night of the shooting for being involved in a shooting, Trust but Verify.

       • In the jail interview GZ say that TM had one hand over his nose and the othe over his mouth and was smothering him, TM took his hand off of GZ’s mouth and that his hand slid down GZ’s side and that is when GZ reached for his gun and shot.
         Listen to the 911 call, does it sound like GZ has his nose and mouth covered and cant breathe before he shot? I cant even detect anything that would indicate that he was receiving MMA style blows to the head.
         It would also be hard to get the front to back wound to the chest that killed TM from the position that GZ claims that they were in.
         GZ did fall down and bump his head, he even turned down the one or two stitches that EMS thought that he needed.
         Look at where GZ’s home is and where he ended up and tell me he was not tracking TM.
         A “Neighborhood Watch Captain” that did not know the name of the street that you Enter or Exit the community because he did not live on that street? Give me a break, the people in the Clubhouse would refer you to a guy that didn’t even know the name of the three streets in the community.
         Two of the break ins were on the street he lives on, I don’t consider one a break in since GZ had seen windows open and went to see if the front door was locked instead of calling and waiting for Police.
         At least crime has went down since he has left, I doubt that much of it was due to a kid that had only been there for around a week.

       • Hi Pooh Huffy,

         Yes. We need to make up new maps, 3 or 4 of them, and send them to GZ. “Pick one and stick to it”.

         He had two mouth swabs taken on the night, to get DNA. They may include traces of drugs, and they still have them with evidence. We suggested ages ago that they test these for drugs. Maybe they did. We know since then he’s on a mixture of uppers and downers (did you see the lady sheriff’s huge bag of his meds, when he surrendered on the bail matter?)

         The CLUBHOUSE : someone on another site thinks they can see shadows, torchlights, even an outline of a body in red…… 6 to 8 minutes BEFORE the first phone call. The links to are under this post, but are now dead. Here’s the Google cache from before someone pulled it all.
         http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-3jKfTUal9QJ:www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/21/1101850/-Videos-show-Zimmerman-walking-around-the-clubhouse+zimmerman+site:dailykos.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

         They’ve still not released a surveillance video from a BANK halfway to Target, which we are expecting would throw serious light on when GZ could have first seen TM. Start thinking before 7.

         I doubt they can try mental health issues in defence. Neither being a sociopath or being on drugs are valid defences.

         For the hand-over-mouth bit, listen to Tape #3 of Serino’s interview. They play the tape (and his own original) and ask him questions about it. He can’t say at which point he was being smothered. His only comment is “that doesn’t even sound like me”. Item 7 on this :

         http://t*****n.axiomamnesia.com/audio/george-zimmermans-statements-sanford-pd-audio/ (they have a good collection of evidence, but the owner of this blog for some reason doesn’t like them (?) anyway I’ve x-ed out some of the URL and you ca very easily fill in the blanks for yourself).

         The “…since GZ had seen windows open and went to see if the front door was locked …” one is 1460 Retreat View, the very house he demonstrates he first saw TM at (the longwinded point being he knows from this that the owner if Caucasian therefore Trayvon doesn’t belong there). In fact it is the house of his sometime friend, fellow NWer and public-tv-appearing supporter Frank Taaffe. Which he DOESN’T want to tell the police in case they think (what we’ve all thought a few times) that Taaffe may have tipped him off about a “suspicious guy”.

         The excuse for being there was, he was driving up that way to go to Target to do some shopping. This “fact” and the timing of it is what we are hoping the Bank surveillance might shed light on.

       • @Pooh Huffy –

         I so agree! Zimmerman is lying 100% and there’s no reason he can’t remember a street name in his 3-street community. Hell, he only needs to remember two street names since he lives on one of the 3. He could have studied one street per year of residence in the community to make sure he memorized the other two after getting his home address down pat in memory.

         Zimmerman is lying. No bones about it.

     • I have to say I agree with you 100%

       • Replying here to tchoupi:

         Regarding Interview 3 – I think there is more there with the exchange with Serino about the voice. Serino plays W11’s 911 call and then asks the confessed murderer – Do you recognize that voice? This is the first question. The confessed killer says: NO! He didn’t realize that the 911 tape they were playing was from his crime. First he had heard it and he states he didn’t recognize the voice. He then goes on to say “It doesn’t even sound like me”

314. I found a very interesting analysis of the clubhouse videos. Aparently, someone was outside the clubhouse with a flashlight about six minutes before GZ’s call to the non emergency number.

     http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/21/1101850/-Videos-show-Zimmerman-walking-around-the-clubhouse

     • I saw some of it. The link now goes to a “no permission” page. I have contacted the author to tell them, in case it’s something they can correct.

     • I am having problems with this link. Do you have any instructions on how to make it work?

     • The link says I don’t have access to that diary. Are there any more thoughts on this? Is this assumed to be GZ? Could this have been Trayvon playing with his lighter?

       • It means the author deleted the post.

315. Tchoupi
     did you see this?

     Zimmerman Video Reenactment Contradicts Statement and Crime Scene Evidence: UPDATED BELOW

     By commenter Mirre there’s an analysis of the clubhouse videos, where they think they see someone checking through the windows with a torch – 6 to 8 mins before GZ’s phone call. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/21/1101850/-Videos-show-Zimmerman-walking-around-the-clubhouse

     I could see some of it. Then I had to refresh the page and it came up “no permission”.

     So in case you can’t see it, either, from memory the times were all from 19.00 through to 23.00 on the tapes. Torch outside kitchen window; torch shining into the narrow corridor; torch (and maybe red clothing) at top left window in the east-facing swimming pool video; and reflection of face on front door of club.

     • oooh that just gave me shivers…reflections of a face on the front door….sounds like a horror movie which i guess it is really.

     • Try the Google cache version

       http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-3jKfTUal9QJ:www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/21/1101850/-Videos-show-Zimmerman-walking-around-the-clubhouse+zimmerman+site:dailykos.com&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

       unitron

316. Zimmerman makes me sick, the more I watched the reenactment video, the more I want his butt in jail. Look at him in the car and as he tells how it all happened. If you will notice, he seems rather well for someone who had just killed someone because he thought he was gonna die. Look at how he moved his head, his speech, his ability to nod and move about without any pain whatsoever. You would think a man who was getting his head pummeled and suffered a broken nose would be hurting and would be moving slow due to his gait being off, and oh don’t forget the back pain he is enduring. He seems so smug. Why didn’t the cameras show daddy Zimmerman?, we all know he was there. I bet you could see his lips moving right before Zimmerman talked or when it became a sticky question. He cares nothing about the life he took, he even made a joke about a hoodie. Him and his wife look like criminals. I would ove to know how they made their money to pay their bills, seeing how he couldnt keep a job and she admits they had been living off of unemployment at one point. I was reading an interesting article, it made me think, what if Zimmerman and his wife along with Taaffe were responsible for the burglary’s. I read where this woman whom Zimmerman came and visited after her apartment was broken into never saw the person who broke in but Zimmermans wife Shelly reported seeing a black male running, and how Zimmerman was the only witness toTaffe home about to be burglarized, It seemed that they were always the witness, not one person in the neighborhood otherthan the workers on lunch break ever say they saw any one break into their homes. It just seems odd how those 3place. manage to see all the crime taking

     • GZ is trying to lead the Judicial System and failing miserably, he is trying to script the situation and the numbers just do not add up.
       He was playing “Cowboy” and failed.

       • Crime has went down since they got GZ out of the neighborhood, what were the stats before he moved in, it would be interesting t0o see crimes stats in neighborhoods that he had live in previously.
         Neighborhood Watch would be a good cover for a Burglar.
         GZ knew building numbers but not addresses, I believe it was in the Sorino interview that he had called Police and was worried that they would go to the 1900 block of Retreat View Circle instead of the 1400 block of Retreat View Circle where he was.
         If the Police were to have come through the front entrance that would have made GZ worried that they would have driven past him in the street with his dog.
         I want to see his Final Script before going to Prison.

       • GZ should have never been sold a gun much less given a permit to carry one.

     • Girls, let’s leave the conspiracy theories to the experts on the dedicated sites.

       Yes they were both prone to big-noting themselves, and “seeing” what they wanted to see. This all goes t underpinning George’s exalted position as Captain.

       Huffy,
       it’s a lot of evidence to go through, easy to get mixed up with it. But… there is no dog involved in this incident, except one that a 13 year old boy was taking for a walk, and which got off the leash in time to make him miss seeing the shot.

       GZ did not have a dog with him this time. He was telling the cops a story that he was walking his dog back on that day when he saw this 1460 RVC (that he doesn’t say belongs to a friend) with windows open and someone acting suspicious. Hugely long story, what that guy wore, how he lit and later tossed a cigarette, just about down to the spinach caught in his teeth………………..but events of the day before, he can’t recall if he did X before or after driving to Y.

       SOME of the things he says DID happen, and he knows by next day there were heaps of witnesses. But it was dark. Some of the things he says he did, probably actually Trayvon did. Others he did himself, but not WHEN he says he did them.

       His statement and re-enactment are made up of “real” events people may have seen or heard, but mixed up into an order that looks good for him. He started this immediately by claiming it was him screaming for help (“doesn’t even sound like me” he says on hearing the tape. AHA he didn’t know there was a TAPE when he said he was being smothered).

       He stomped up and down at the scene, neatly poisoning the witness statements by talking to them before they had a chance to take in and assess what they’d seen. So, especially at first, his vague story and bits and pieces of witness statements seemed to match up well enough.

       The only thing this confused manufactured version doesn’t match up with is the one thing he couldn’t poison — the tape of his original call safe on a SPD computer. Everything has to be measured against that tape, which was a step by step real-time description of what was happening in the 5 minutes leading up to the confrontation. A few things on that tape aren’t true, either, mostly by omission – he doesn’t say how long he really followed Trayvon for. He tells the whole story of his life at 1460 RVC where he “first saw him”, then not a word about anything until he pulls in to the clubhouse parking strip.

       Same as in that first tape, the real truth is not in what GZ says. The real truth is in what he doesn’t say. The gaps, the background noises, the spots where he glosses over a minute with 2 words, where he covers with long detailed stories actions that took only 2 seconds. The Freudian slips (“e ad is hand on his nose…ah MY nose…”), the body language, the miming.

       Watch the re-enactment with the sound OFF and see what story he is telling with his hands. Then do it again and watch his face.

317. Ok guys, today for some ungodly reason I decided to go on facebook to https://www.facebook.com/GeorgeZimmermanLegalCase

     I know you have heard about his attorney setting this site up for his client, most likely to monitor what people are saying about George, I at one point along with other Martin supporters were handing out facts like tic tacs over there and in counter were only met with resistance, you don’t even want to know what we went through over there. Anyway I travelled back over to my old stomping ground to read their thoughts on Zimmerman, and sure enough there they were cheer leading harder than ever. The one thing that ticked me off is them saying that the prosecutions case is weak weak weak, this is why they stooped so low as to put this reenactment out. Uh, oh, okay!! I see why they are on George Zimmerman’s side, it is because they themselves can’t keep their lies straight, at one point they all agree that this video shows without a shadow of a doubt that poor George was fighting for his life. Now within a milli second they swing over to the right and one person posted that:

     Chasity Rodgers: Case Rule 403
     Excluding relevant evidence
     The court may exclude relevant evidence if its probative value is substantially outweighed by a danger of one or more of the following: unfair prejudice, confusing the issues, misleading the jury, undue delay, wasting time, or needlessly presenting cumulative evidence.
     I say these videos are excusable relevant evidence

     Ok, these were her exact words, I copied and pasted this: Why is it that these people now want the videos suppressed, but even so. Why is it that they feel that Zimmerman is so special that we need to over look his own personal statements!! excuse me but… WTH? These people are unbalanced.

     Now, Chastity has decided to add this:

     Rules of evidence
     For some to see
     Sorry it’s long but I feel many would like to have an understanding of what evidence that we’ve been discussing n reviewing may or may not, even be seen/heard in the courtroom , if this case goes to trial

     Rule 404 : Character Evidence; Crimes or Other Acts
     (a) Character Evidence.

     (1) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of a person’s character or character trait is not admissible to prove that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character or trait.

     (2) Exceptions for a Defendant or Victim in a Criminal Case. The following exceptions apply in a criminal case:

     (A) a defendant may offer evidence of the defendant’s pertinent trait, and if the evidence is admitted, the prosecutor may offer evidence to rebut it;

     (B) subject to the limitations in Rule 412, a defendant may offer evidence of an alleged victim’s pertinent trait, and if the evidence is admitted, the prosecutor may:

     (i) offer evidence to rebut it; and

     (ii) offer evidence of the defendant’s same trait; and

     (C) in a homicide case, the prosecutor may offer evidence of the alleged victim’s trait of peacefulness to rebut evidence that the victim was the first aggressor.

     (3) Exceptions for a Witness. Evidence of a witness’s character may be admitted under Rules 607, 608, and 609.

     (b) Crimes, Wrongs, or Other Acts.

     (1) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character.

     (2) Permitted Uses; Notice in a Criminal Case. This evidence may be admissible for another purpose, such as proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake, or lack of accident. On request by a defendant in a criminal case, the prosecutor must:

     (A) provide reasonable notice of the general nature of any such evidence that the prosecutor intends to offer at trial; and

     (B) do so before trial — or during trial if the court, for good cause, excuses lack of pretrial notice.

     Sorry I made this so long but I am like NLME, it is a waste of your opportunity to breathe air trying to talk with these people. I will also say less than 10% of these people actually have taken the time to look through the evidence. Videos are the only thing they looked at because it didn’t involve reading anything, sorry but true. If they feel like name calling and saying racial things don’t bother you, then they will simply ignore you. I have not seen one person on the Zimmerman band wagon actually speak of any updated info or speak about the actual evidence released to the public. It is public information and you are defending this guy so why not read it. I have had to put so many people in their place, I have grown tired. They keep talking about his pictures that were shown and made people feel sorry for a young boy, then it’s the civil rights activists, then it’s the unfair charges because of racial upsurge. I am so tired of hearing about this. At this present time, Zimmerman supporters and his attorneys are the only one’s fanning the fires. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson have left town and are letting the police do their jobs, they said they came to help get him charged they did that, but now they say, where are they now that George is being proven innocent, they should be brought up on charges as well as the prosecutor. Let these people tell it, all of us on this blog should be served a warrant any day now. Good luck with ever thinking
     these people will ever be open to the truth. Sorry so long, I apologize.

     • If it makes you feel any better, I know exactly what you are saying. I am one of the posters who was trying to hold an objective coversations with this group (Saridley Atl). Today, I posted to them that I was no longer going to engage in discourse with them. Enough is enough. I found myself allowing strangers get under my skin.

       • Saridly, I read your comments and even gave you a thumbs up. You did very well and had your facts straight. I am Theresa over there and my kids are my profile. They are rediculous over there. Thanks!!!

     • Ah good, Theresa, they can send me the air ticket from Australia along with that warrant… and we’ll hold a bcclist conference at a nice resort OUTSIDE OF Florida.

       I’ve tried on some of those other sites. Just get sick from it after quite a short while. I can feel the brick wall under my keyboard keys. I have found a few with good people, good but very short on facts, that I’ve been handing out “fact-packs” to, so they can spread the right word with more confidence elsewhere.

       “..Good luck with ever thinking these people will ever be open to the truth. ..” it may yet turn out that we don’t have the truth. But I don’t think any of us here believe it is true BECAUSE we say so. We re saying we think its true because the EVIDENCE says so. And all of us have backed down on ideas when someone’s brought up contra-evidence.

       What these people are closed to is not the truth itself. They are closed to any concept of how to GET AT TRUTH.

       You may be right about watching videos. We are getting back to the days in history when the peasants believed everything their lords and masters told them, because they were kept uneducated, so they could not find out otherwise for themselves. The days in history when dictators kept even educated peoples brainwashed, by not letting in news from the rest of the world.

       Except now people appear to be brainwashing themselves. And they are the ones crying the loudest about “dictatorship”. In Asia and the Middle East, TV and the internet have brought knowledge and, through it, democracy. In the West it seems to be going the other way.

       Well. That’s not for here.

       Except if impeccable witnesses turn up, if video evidence turns up, if GZ breaks down and publicly admits to Murder One…. these people are still not going to believe it. They will come up with every conspiracy theory in the book to not have to believe it.

       The scariest bit is, this makes them all George Zimmermans…. never responsible for anything, everything is always the other person’s fault.

318. New poster. I’m not one to post on the net too much, BUT, I have to for this…

     GZ states he shot TM, and that at some point after, he jumps on TM’s back somehow. His claim is because TM is still alive, not badly hurt, and still resisting a bit… I think most of us here just think that’s 100% bogus. I’m not putting words in his mouth, but GZ himself states he tells Martin to “stop” and “don’t move.”

     Now, here’s where I urge you all to go back and review the witness call and intently listen again to the call that captures the screams and shot. I, from the first time hearing the tape, heard other words in that tape other than just “help.” I reviewed that tape many times, as it is difficult to hear what’s in the background of a recorded tape that’s being redacted in parts, as well as being talked over by both the witness and dispatcher. At one point, I believed to hear the exclamation, “Oh my God!” It seems off in the distance and high pitched like a yelp to me, but I brushed it off trying to explain it away as possibly the woman’s husband in the background, even though it sounded like the voice yelling for help. I also thought I heard the same voice yelp, “NOOO!” NOW…here is why I ask you all to go back and listen again. You may all think I’m out of my mind, but I’ve been saying this to people before GZ’s statements from his own mouth released…in that call, I heard “STOP! DON’T _____.” I can’t make out the last word, but the sound in the middle was a short O sound. I always thought it was either don’t shoot or don’t move. At first, I thought it was the former, but that didn’t sit with me because the voice didn’t seem to quite fit in my mind with the voice I heard causing the cries/yelps. These words are placed between calls for help, and I hear the words “STOP, DON’T _____” moments before the shot where helps follow immediately after.

     GZ in his statement seems to put certain aspects out of order. Is this another aspect he conveniently puts out of order to bolster his claim? Does anyone else here hear these words before the shot? When I first heard GZ state he said those words to TM, it didn’t even hit me that I had been telling others that I thought I heard those exact words moments before the shot and immediately following was the last cry for help (I believe it was the last full cry and then the next was abruptly ended.).

     PROSECUTORS…Did you catch those words on the tape BEFORE the shot?!

     • QETNO

       Welcome to the site! Your assesment of the call is in line with what another audio expert has stated as well…that he could actually hear other words of pleading during the call.

     • GZ was using hollowpoint ammo by his own confession, meaning that TM took 300 to 400 foot pounds of energy to the chest.
       I think that it would be reasonably to say that the wind was knocked out of him and that he made no more than guttural noises if anything at all.
       GZ says in different accounts that he shot him in the torso and that he thought that he had missed.
       GZ tries to rationalize getting on top of him to restrain him by implying that he felt that TM had something in his hands while punching him.

     • Which 911 call are you listening too, please post. I have listened many many times and hear different things.

319. Okay, I listened to the tape again. I am still wondering if they were both yelling help at different times because some sound the exact same and others sound different. Also, I got it wrong, there were several helps after what sounded like don’t shoot or don’t move. About 25 seconds seemed to go by from my count. I don’t know, but this part just didn’t sound like help me or f you or any other thing GZ said was said. The words were separated a bit, like DON’T *pause* MOVE.

     This is so frustrating trying to hear the background of a tape with multiple people talking over.

     I really just can’t see Zimmerman as the helpless victim here. I see too many inconsistencies and things that don’t add up. The huge one…TM gets shot causing his lungs to collapse and fill with blood after the bullet going through his lung and heart, but he’s still alive, talking, resisting, etc. Also, WHY does he leave out Mary and Selma coming out FIRST. They were there before the other guy ran out, correct? Also, I get how you can mistake small distance discrepancies, but wasn’t the body closer to the border of the 2 and 3 house, not the first? In the interrogation he says he fell back, but in the reenactment he stumbled forward, so…WHICH ONE, GEORGE??? I also can’t make sense of how he says by the time he gets to the T where TM ran right and doesn’t see him at all now, how TM sees HIM and knows he got out of his vehicle if TM is so fast and had such a head start. Also, no real place for TM to hide where TM would get that close before GZ sees him.

     George Zimmerman…you defy logic, and Trayvon is apparently psychic, can transport from one place to the next without being seen or heard, and he has 8 hands. He also has the capabilities of being shot in the lungs and heart, but can sit up, talk, get off you, end up on his stomach, wiggle around, still talking. Did he also get up and do a song and dance, too, for you George?

     If this guy gets ANOTHER bond…SMH. I don’t know who seems to have lied more in their case…George Zimmerman or Casey Anthony.

     • No but he tucked his own arms under his chest before politely dying to avoid further embarrassment for GZ.

       Welcome to this blog, NLME’s “living room” where he lets us argue and discuss and spread evidence all over the floor.

       You can’t read it all, just search for bits you may be missing.
       Check here for summary of witness numbers (from evidence dump), locations and statements.

       Trayvon Martin

       Consider the tape probably caught other people, too.

       First witness John (Wit #6) goes outside (or doesn’t, or nearly, he’s dreadfully confusing) some time BEFORE the shot, and calls out to the two fighting figures “STOP, I am going to call 911”. Could that be what you heard? Later he says he said more than just STOP. In other words, does your “stop etc” come in a gap, or overlay any of the “helps”? This could help in establishing the facts of this witness’s statements.

       ““Oh my God!” ..It seems off in the distance” — Witness 19 had her head outside a moment before John came out. She may have said something like that before scurrying inside when she heard John mention 911.

       At the end, people kept saying it must be TM screaming because the “helps” stop at the shot. But they don’t. I am happy you hear that, too. I hear it as a lot of help help heeeeeeeelp (well some sounds more like a horrified nooooo rather than help), then a shot, a fraction silence, then one “yelp” higher-pitched. Not the same voice. Sort of a “youww”. Sort of a yell/grunt combined sound someone might make leaping onto someone. OR a yelp of pain from someone getting his nose almost broken by a kickback from a cheap pistol lightly held (which is my theory on this bit).

       The first “expert” listeners to this tape were all discredited. The FBI said they can’t tell who is calling for help. They did NOT mention anything about anything else they heard. If anything from them turns up in an evidence dump, GRAB IT.

       Try to find an unredacted copy of the tape. If you can’t, note the times when you hear each item of interest, and put it here with a link to the actual version you did it with (lots of versions of everything around). The poster Whonoze seems to be a good audio expert, maybe the two of you could debate it.

       • It was frustrating to listen to John’s statements from the 911 call to his statement that was released recently. To me, John didn’t sound like he knew shit in his 911 call, but then all of a sudden police arrive, and it comes across as he saw it all. I think he was influenced (intentionally or unintentionally) to make a statement in favor of GZ/self defense. One thing that John did say that caught my attention and make me think was from his last statement with the state/investigators. He said he thought it was weird that when he said stop that the two didn’t stop, but that’s not so weird when you think about it. If it was just TM attacking to attack he probably would have stopped and ran at that point, but if TM is on top defending himself then why would he stop and let his attacker get the advantage? He wouldn’t. GZ wouldn’t stop because he feels no reason to stop since in his mind this is a suspect fighting him.

         The “stop” I heard could have been John, but it’s hard to tell. At the point I thought I heard it, the call was being cut to redact, the witnesses and dispatcher were talking, and the noise from outside was also coming through. It was a low sound with other noise distortion due to all that was happening, but it definitely caught me as the word stop. I heard a few helps yelled a few moments before, but I didn’t hear an overlap in help and stop when I thought I heard it. Since there was so much noise distortion, I can’t say it’s not possible. I couldn’t hear anything that sounded like “I’m calling 911.” I heard stop right before “don’t ____.” I heard more helps and cries out then the shot. To me, the help got cut off at “hel” with only half of the l sound finished, BUT I do hear a noise overlap at the end that I just *can’t* place. It’s almost a low groan tacked onto the last help that got cut off. Tonight, I will go through that call again several times and do some more analysis, and I’ll listen for the yelp you hear after the shot, and I’ll try to get a better analysis of what I hear in the call, too. The first time I got the impression of these things going on in the call was a version from the Orlando Sentinel, and then I studied through versions on YT.

         Also, at the first bond hearing, did you get the impression Gilbreath was intentionally answering questions in a way not to give out any specific information? It seemed like O’Mara was phishing.

       • Okay, check out the link below of the witness 911 tape. It’s from a YT channel. The guy appears pretty pro-Zimmerman, but he’s got some good stuff to sift through in his videos. In this he posts point by point, and he lists the seconds of where he hears sounds and what he thinks is heard at each point. He believes very early in the call he hears stop, which is around the 3 second mark. I found that interesting because I always believed John saw a few moments of the very beginning of the fight just after it got to the ground, so is this John, Zimmerman, or TM yelling “stop?” Now, look at his point 6, and listen. He says he can’t determine, and this is where I think I hear stop, but as you listen you will hear what I mean when I say it had just come off being cut out and it was under people talking. Now, point 7, this poster believes is help me, but this is where I was always confused about that because it didn’t sound like help me to me, and I thought it sounded more like don’t ____. I hear more o than e in it, which is what caught me up. It also sounded more commanding to me.

         Seriously, each time I listen to this I want to scream, “SHUT UP!!!!” If only someone would have just recorded the damn thing from their porch!

         Anyway, I would be interested to know if an audio expert could determine if that was help me or don’t move. They don’t sound alike, but is this tape just too garbled to be of any use?

         The only reason I believe Zimmerman would be screaming would be to get a neighbor to come help him detain who he thought was a criminal, not because he was being attacked. I still wonder how exactly each got to the location where TM died. GZ’s version doesn’t add up.

       • questioneverything i am hearing “don’t move” on point 6. Wow it sounds pretty clear too but i’m getting it at point 6 not 7.

     • “psychic, can transport from one place to the next without being seen or heard, and he has 8 hands. “…and all his fists are made of styrofoam so they don’t pick up bruising, and covered with Teflon so they don’t pick up DNA either. Also he has super strength, being able to float GZ 40 feet with one blow to the nose from behind.

320. Ok, ok…I have to post one more question right now. GZ claims he can’t remember the street names in his community (even though he’s lived there for more than a year, he regularly patrols, and there’s only three names to remember) because of he has a bad memory, and he has ADD/ADHD. OKAY…got it…BUT, if you are actually on your meds like you’re supposed to be, they are supposed to help with the whole bad memory/lack of attention to memorize problem. Are his meds not working, or was he not taking his meds?

     I apologize. I shall cease.

     • Don’t apologise. it is probably hidden somewhere in our 2000+ posts (yeah this is just one of 3 related blogs) but we can tell you.

       No nothing was said about meds originally and he was NOT TESTED for drugs or alcohol. Allegedly only has to be done if there’s “signs” that maybe they are under the influence.

       WE only heard about meds when his doctor’s report of the non-broken nose was released. Just that he was prescribed, not if he was taking them (Adderall and I forget the other, one’s an upper, other’s a downer).

       In the police interviews, I think Serino Tape 1, he is asked by way of background if he has any mental issues/problems and he says no. Later, I think in Serino 3, they are discussing how he doesn’t know the street names, he says “I have a very bad memory”. Serino: “you just saying that? or is that been diagnosed….established…” and GZ says oh, yes, I have ADHD. Serino asks what he takes for it “Adderall??? 20 mg??”

       So we don’t know if he really HAS ADHD or anything else; the doctor’s statement that he was prescribed XYZ might just mean just prescribed that day, for all we know (although apparently GZ already had a psychologist or psychiatrist??? that he was advised to see about dealing with the “trauma”). Nothing about what and when he was meant to take.

       When he handed himself in for the bond retraction, there’s a video of a lady sheriff carrying a HUGE bag of meds for him. In orange hospital-style containers, not retail packs. Chances are he was taking more than he should have been.

       Big contrast between the phone call, drawn out, drawling, slurrred in parts; reenactment next day bright, crisp, sharp, clear.

       • I guess my post was more of putting out a thought out there then a question. I was aware he wasn’t tested, but damn, how they didn’t test him after hearing that non-emergency call is beyond me, lol.

         I would be interested in knowing his medical history, and I am interested to see how that’ll come into play into this case. The downer he was taking was Temazepam. I believe it was in the EMT report, too, that he was taking tranqs. Since he wasn’t tested, we don’t know the levels in him at the exact moment. Also, in the transcripts released from his jails calls, he’s talking with his wife about meds, and mentions ones other than the two we first heard about. Who knows what all he took and when he started the medications. I initially thought he was under the influence that night, and when we heard about him complaining of back pain to his doctor, I wondered if he was phishing for more meds, but it is also possible he was not taking his meds that night, too, if he was indeed currently supposed to be on the two we first heard. I agree with you there was a definite contrast between the night before and the next day. The only time he seemed to stumble in the reenactment is when he realizes what he’s saying can’t quite be explained, and it’s not fully adding up. I also love how he realizes that he’s in the wrong spot because he looks over (further south) and further back in the grass and just stares and pauses.

         I guess I questioned if he was on his meds at all that night because he complained about health insurance. If he was taking those regularly then stopped, he could have been going through withdrawl, which could also explain his demeanor on the 911 call. It just boggles my mind that the PD thought he came across as not under the influence. He seemed to get easily distracted when TM was in motion and couldn’t seem to answer questions at the same time. I think this is a tell at the end of the call because he begins to calm a bit, but at the very end, you hear he gets distracted again then ends the call with TM and him meeting moments later. My bet…he heard or saw TM right at the end, which is what explains the sudden switch from calm to distracted. Withdrawl can make people heavily agitated, paranoid, cloudy, etc.

         Just offering more food for thought and considering all possibilities!

       • GZ did not know the name of the street that you enter and exit the community because he did not live on that street.

     • what i hear at the very beginning, Im begging you get offffffffff.

321. GZ gives a description of his arrest for taking up for his drunk buddy at a bar on the Serino interview.
     Five guys and Seven girls at a club and GZ hears about it after coming out of the bathroom and snaps.

     • yeah, underage buddy “had been drinking ….apparently”. Like he didn’t know buddy was under age? didn’t notice buddy getting drunk?
       oh, sorry. that’s right. it’s always someone else’s fault, he didn’t even know………

322. Interesting analysis from a deception expert.

     http://blog.eyesforlies.com/

323. I originally thought the best charge that they could make stick was Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child since TM was below the age of eighteen and they were going to plea bargain it down.
     Now I see why they charged him with Second Degree Murder.
     I expect Money Laundering will come up, his Sister and all involved wit that should be charged too.
     I understood that GZ’s Father and Grandmother had gotten loans against their homes to come up with the $15,000 to get him out.
     Did GZ lie to them or were they in on the money laundering scam?

     • Did they lie to his dad? I don’t know but one of his Dad’s responsibilities as a magistrate in VA was to hold bail hearings. I happen to believe his father has been all up in it and knew about the money.

     • I wonder if there’s any evidence they did get loans?
       From the coded talk, sounds like they were prepared to spend that 10% of the bond from the PayPal money.
       I think that allegedly borrowed amount came from some of the money transferred into relatives accounts.

       The brother ran the web site, he’d have known for sure what was in there. Sister opened an account specially to have some of it transferred in.

       They knew.

       But I don’t think it counts as Money Laundering. That is when you try to make dirty money look clean. This was legit money, they were just hiding it so the court wouldn’t know about it and therefore want more of it for the bond.

       I don’t think it’s illegal to offer to hold some money for a relative, and I doubt that there’s any crime called “conspiracy to commit perjury”. Leave them be. It should not turn into a witch-hunt against the family. They should concentrate on getting the murder conviction.

       • I think the larger point isn’t just about the money but what else would the family be willing to conceal. I would have no problem leaving them be if they hadn’t got on TV themselves or through surrogates to trash Trayvon.

       • I really don’t think the brother had anything at all to do with the paypal account. Nothing. George was in control. George would have been talking to his brother about the account if he was in charge of it but instead he was giving instructions to shellie, i don’t think the brother was even mentioned in their recorded calls. I don’t think his parents would be aware either. They have defended him publicly and his lies have made them look foolish, no wonder they have gone very quiet.

       • Hi Jo:

         Who is Ken?

       • yeah true (to be honest i haven’t listened to the tapes but have read what you guys have written and hadn’t seen mention of the brother), but GZ is definatley the one in charge of the account, ‘Ken’ sounds like he is giving advice.
324. Who are witnesses #4, #7, and #10? There are no statements listed for them, so who are these people? They must exist, yes?

325. Much of what we have is given to us by GZ, a known liar! Thus, using his words, we can’t even figure what the parameters are, because he leaves us working within segmented limits. We’re not seeing the “dead time” in the mix because we’re skipping from item to item, area to area.

     So, basically we need to start with the first “fixed time” we can get, which would be the time TM leaves 711. Then, take that time in minutes up to the gunshot, to get the total number of available minutes. THEN, begin the attempt to account for as many of those minutes as possible, between the blocks of time accounted for, the “dead time” will emerge clearly. It is very important to know where these unaccounted for minutes are located, because that suggests the possibilities we may not have considered.

     You guys are better at this than I am, so I’ll leave it to you to come up with this type of timeline. It need not be graphic, a textual one will do just as well.
     My guess is it will surprise us.

326. I’ve given up on that google blog thing, I’m going to turn it into something else, a TM/GZ bickering site. Seems google just makes it darn near impossible to get anything more complex than just posting articles and comments impossible. The url will stay the same: http://flavzim.blogspot.com/
     But it won’t get disorderly, as evidence and reason etc., will trump speculation.

327. On GZ’s first web site, he posted the graffiti displaying the words “Long Live Zimmerman,” which was put on a black cultural center. When NBP got involved, the Martin family denounced the inciting of violence/hate, but at no time did Zimmerman or his family speak out against the white supremacists. In fact, the use of that image shows encouragement, IMO. In addition, he took the quote of evil only prevails when good men do nothing for use on his site. This quote shows he believed TM to be “evil.” It astounds me that this man is completely incapable of putting himself in another person’s shoes. Even after he was informed TM was only a teen, staying in that community, and was not responsible for the crime in his neighborhood, he fails to see as TM as anything other than a suspect, criminal, and evil entity. I find the use of the quote very bizarre, actually. The quote seems to go beyond a self-defense claim; it’s a telling quote. He believes he is a hero who did a service to the world. I’ve never been able to get over him using that image and that quote on his site. I hope they can use that in court to show his mindset and overinflated sense of self.

     GZ seems to be a very weak little man. He is probably not particularly great at anything, and seeks self worth from putting himself in positions of power. That’s the vibe I get, at least.

     The man in TX who caught his daughter’s predator before/during her attack was capable of showing remorse for taking a life. He called 911 and URGED them to get there FAST. GZ tells the witness not to call, and that he already called. Um, dude, you called for police, not 911 requesting medical for the person you just shot supposedly in self-defense.

     Also, am I the only one who finds it really strange that NONE of the witnesses mentioned TM’s light colored pants? I just find that strange.

     • “Am I the only one who finds it really strange that NONE of the witnesses mentioned TM’s light colored pants?”

       I’ve been thinking Trayvon’s lighter colored pants are the white t-shirt? Even though that doesn’t make much sense.

       • I thought about that possibility, too, NLME. It just doesn’t make sense to me, though. You have John mentioning he could seem TM’s dark hoodie, but no mention of his light pants or shoes. You have Austin outside, and saying he only saw one man on the ground who was wearing red. He should have been able to see the light pants and shoes, too. Austin stated the man on the ground in red was facing *away* from him, which is why he couldn’t determine it was him yelling for help. If TM is on top, I don’t see how he misses TM’s light colored attire. When Austin says facing away, does he mean he sees the back of GZ’s head/shirt? I don’t think Austin ever clarified what he meant.

         White t-shirt possibilities:

         1. TM’s light colored sweatshirt/shirt under his hoodie
         2. GZ’s light colored shirt under his jacket
         3. TM’s pants
         4. Another person seen before the shot
         5. Another person seen after the shot, and the witness is simply confused as to the sequence
         6. There was no white shirt, the witness was just plain confused and got it wrong, lol

         • John and his neighbor both saw white — so, 2 witnesses. But, they also both definitely (and admittedly) talked to each other after the shooting.

       • @NLME

         Thanks for correcting me. I did not know John saw white, as well. Interesting. What statement of his did he mention seeing white?

       • I’m pretty sure I recall Tracy Martin saying Trayvon’s sneakers were white and red Jordan’s. So since it was dark outside the witness may have mistook his shoes for a piece of clothing. Seeing white or something light also doesn’t prove Trayvon was on the top of Zimmerman at that time.

     • awsome post…i agree with everything. I felt the same about the quote zimmerman used and everything else you wrote was spot on. cheers

     • Qetno,

       You hit on some very important points. I remember his website as well. It really hurt me and it made me feel even worse for Trayvon and his family. Zimmermans family has helped him get out of trouble for some time now, he has had many run ins with the law and suspiciously always knew how to get out of his misdeeds. He went to a program instead of having to do anytime for the assault on the police officer, he assaulted his girlfriend and she filed charges and he went and filed against her so it would look like a he said she said but the incident happened at her apartment in which they had already broken up and he didnt live there. Zimmerman has bragged on myspace about having possible other charges had his friends ratted him out, he also bragged about getting charges dropped. You see his parents have created a monster with their constant cloaking of him and his erratic behavior. He thinks he is invincible. I said before that I couldnt understand why he nor the first witness ever attempted to do cpr on the kid, he knew he was young and he stil didnt do anything to help him. It was more important that he cover his own butt. He knows they are calling Martin a thug and that he deserved to be killed for being a bad ass when in reality he knows that is not the case and his lieing family does too. It is more important for them to protect their son once again than give any care to a young man gunned down at the hands of their son. He is the devil to me because only the devil has a heartless soul. His father claimed he was all torn up but yet when he was doing his reenactment video he didn’t show any remorse for just having killed someone. How do you take a life and not be disturbed about it. Like you said even the father in Texas had enough compassion to be remorseful for what he did. Zimmerman has no tears for Trayvon because he felt he was nothing in this world. Zimmerman did just what he knew would always work in this Country and that was to claim anangry black male attacked him for no reason. Things have changed since slavery and segregation but you still have some that know if they say the right thing against a black person the majority will believe it because all they think of black people as are savages. I read so many comments toward the Martin family that was uncalled for and sad. When you have a case like this involving race you always have these people come out of the woodworks. They always throw everything in a different direction when we all know why they feel such a way. They keep talking about Rev Al and Jesse Jackson as though they planned the killing of Trayvon. Once again here comes someone to the defense of George Zimmerman. Had they made him take responsibility years ago you might wouldnt have had the issues we see today. Why is it easy to say Martin is the aggressor but so hard to believe even with Zimmerman s past history he couldnt have been aggressive. This man jokes in jail about having a hoodie and there sits his wife by his side. I am in hopes that Zimmerman starts having nightmares beyond belief over what he did to Martin for no reason other than wanting to gun dow this black child whom he felt was worthless and beneath him. I wouldnt be surprised at what all the prosecution has on him that we havent seen. If he bragged on myspace about prior criminal activity, I am sure he had lots to say after killing Martin especially with Taaffe patting him on the back the entire time. There was not enough burglary in that neighborhood to warrant that much paranoia of black people, it puzzles me how him and Taaffe can say the crimes were all by black people when Sanford police dept cant even state that as a fact but yet they claimed that black people were never brought up in their tenants meeting about the crime. I find it really revealing that this murder was most likely planned( against black males) and for the most part a ruse for their sinister plans in that neighborhood. It is funny how this woman says her door was kicked in and she called the police, not seeing the man but Shellie Zimmerman the wife of George conveniently sees a black male running but no one else sees anything. How about Taaffe open window that he left open( who does that in a crime ridden area?) Zimmerman happens to be the only witness to this break in as well, which is of course a black male. Where are all the witnesses that say their places were broken in by all black males Sorry but Shellie Zimmermans mug shot looks like a criminal. It is funny how these fine upstanding citizens were all too happy to go along with the plot to conceal this money. If they were as upstanding as they portray themselves and George was the alter boy they say he is then he would have given both the passports to the court and he would have told the judge that he has money and is willing to use his money to pay his bond. He also would be convicted by the Lord and believen his commandment ” THOU SHALL NOT KILL” p.s. It is also covenient how the gun was bought to defend against a dog, you can see how he manipulates everything with his knowledge of the law and his over grown ego. How can someone with so many goals and dreams as told in an article by his family end up a loser. What has he been doing since high school. Why was he not in the Marines he was in Rotc in high school. My daughters were in Rotc for 3 years and they are Army and living in Korea. People with goals usually achieve at least some of them. I guess his goal was to be an angry unemployable murdering lunatic, if that is the case then perhaps he has reached his goal in life.

328. Just a thought or two: I’m assuming GZ is not ambidextrous as it is rare to use both hands equally as well. After watching the CVSA video I noticed Zimmerman writes with his left hand, which would indicate he would use his fire arm with the same hand if that one is dominant. When he was questioned in the interview he gestured how he went for his gun on the night of the shooting (he used the same gesture at the reenactment scene) by pointing with his right hand to his holster as being on the right which would indicate he was a left handed shooter. If as he says that Trayvon went to prevent him from reaching toward his holstered gun it would be very difficult for Zimmerman to reach across his waistline to his holster on the right while he was pinned down on his back the way he says he was – he would go to reach it with his less dominant right hand as it was closer to reach The question I have is how under the condition he was in, almost losing consciousness after being beaten to an inch of his life, did he attempt to unholster his gun, grip the trigger, and aim it with such ease and accuracy with his less dominant hand? Hm!.

     • Excellent left hand/right hand observation. I’ve only shot a firearm a few times but definitely hold a pistol, pen, brush, fishing pole, etc. in my right hand. Hmmmmm

       Any firearm aficionados out there?

       • Re: gun-handedness. It doesn’t matter whether you are right or left-handed in firing a gun or bow. It matters which eye is dominant, and that may or may not match your handedness.

         To check this out, put your hands in front of you, thumbs outstretched, and let them overlap so you have a triangular opening. With both eyes open, focus on something through that opening, a word on the page, a doorknob, etc. Now close one eye. Open it. Repeat with the other eye. Looking through the dominant eye, your point of focus will not change. The weak eye does.

         But, as with baseball batters, you can train to shoot with either hand. A handgun pretty much by definition is a short-range weapon. Most gun safety instructors will teach students to hold the gun in both hands in front of their chest, then push their hands straight out towards the chest of the target. Don’t even look at the gunsights, you won’t have time to line up a perfect shot in a real fight. Once you get that muscle memory trained, you will tend to always shoot at the center of your target

       • I’m not a firearms aficionado, but I’ve been to shooting ranges many times in my life. I’m left handed and I shoot left handed. It’s a reflex, since you’ve learned “fine motor control” with the hand you use for… well, things that require fine motor control.

         Still, even so, that’s just a general rule. There are anomalies with everyone, and you’ll find left handed people doing some things right handed. Not many things, mind you, but a few, as if they never made up their mind about it.

         In Nassau or London, many people find driving on “the other side of the road” confusing. I didn’t, because, how I drive depends on where the steering wheel is. So, with the steering wheel moved to the other side of the car I had no problem at all. My guess is that with an American car on English roads I’d probably be a disaster.

       • Christie

         Thanks for that clarificaiton. I did the exercise you suggested and I see exactly what you mean! Although I’m right handed…my left eye is dominant.

     • In the next day video it shows him pantomiming drawing his gun with his right hand from the right hand side of his body, so he probably learned to shoot right-handed, if for no other reason than the gun exects the spent brass (the shell) to the right and perhaps back a bit, and you don’t want hot brass coming at you from the left and hitting your face or chest.

       My dad wrote left-handed but played baseball and did a bunch of other stuff right-handed, so it’s not unheard of.

       unitron

     • I thought he might be left handed ages ago, from the school pix that were published.
       But people who know more about guns than I do are saying the Kel-Tec comes in left and right handed models and this one was a right-handed.
       It’s to do with some clip or lever that’s operated with the thumb.
       Of course that would only matter for single-handed repeated shooting; you could use one hand for holding the gun and reach across to operate that gizmo with the other etc.

       Of course it might be Shellie’s gun that he grabbed by accident. That’s if her having a licence isn’t just an excuse for him to have two.

       I can easily see left-hander learning to shoot with the right, seeing they usually use both hands on the gun anyway, and I imagine lefty-guns being rare on a firing range. Maybe he doesn’t even know you can get a left-hand model.

       Caroline, from a front holster you’d draw across the body, with the opposite hand. Thats the position a bare gun could be tucked into a waistband, too. He’s saying right HIP which means drawing with the hand on that side. (Of course that way the gun is half under him so TM would not accidentally see it when his shirt comes up from the squirming around).

       • There is no external safety switch or lever, so it would have to be the clip, or magazine, release.

         But the important part of “handedness” on an automatic like that is which direction it ejects the hot brass, in the path of which you do not want to be.

         And considering where he indicated it was holstered that night, the odds of Trayvon seeing it in that light were very slim indeed until he pulled it from the holster.

         unitron

329. Anyone else catch this slip-up : Singleton interview part 1 at 15:16 Zimmerman saying “he was hitting my head against the pavement…or a SIGN ? ??

     • Yes Leelee, after he tells her three times it was a cement pavement he adds that part about the sign. Lol, every time he opens his mouth he hangs himself.

     • And in the re-enactment video zimmerman actually says he SLIPPED or Trayvon pushed him down….so he slips and hits his head on the dog SIGN is my guess.

     • Hmmm… could he have hit the back of his head (at some point – maybe after the gun kicks him in the nose) against the utility covers in the grass? What are those made of? Do those seem at all likely to make the little scratches that are seen?

       • They’re made of cement.

       • Thanx NLME!!

330. One of the questions George Zimmerman was asked in his truth verification test was if he had ever drove over the posted speed limit. He answered NO. We know that’s bogus. He had a traffic violation after SPEEDING to chase down someone who he believed had done something to him (like always). If he lies during such a test, and that is a proven false statement, but it shows he is telling the truth then doesn’t that mean that these results really don’t mean squat?

     • Where’d you find that? Link?

       • CherokeeNative informed me it was an intentional lie. It was a control question. I’m sure he’s had more than one speeding incidence, but a while back they released his history of non-emergency and 911 calls, and one of those calls was about someone he believed to be driving erratically after the person cut him off or something, and he ended up chasing this guy down. I don’t have the link to that anymore, I apologize!

     • Of course they don’t mean squat. That’s why they’re never admitted as evidence.

       Actually they do work, to some extent. The point is, the questions have to be unexpected (so asking about steps in a known event, step by step, won’t work). They also have to be about subjects the person will feel nervous about.

       The detectors don’t pick up LIES, they pick up changes from nervousness caused by lying about something important. Actually I think it’s more of a bluff for the benefit of the person being questioned.

       Big deal: lying about a speeding fine doesn’t make anyone nervous. They may as well be asking does he hate apples.

       Actually I read before this latest lot of evidence was decided, the police wanted this one NOT released, ON THE GROUNDS that these tests are unreliable. They’re trying to have it both ways?.

     • The testing investigator told GZ to lie in response to that question, “have you ever driven over the posted speed limit.” It was a planned lie to make sure the equipment was working properly.

       • Ah, okay, thanks for correcting me on that! I never listened to the audio/video of him taking the lie detector…because I admit I can’t stand his voice, so I wasn’t sure if that was a control question.

     • Exactly the reason not admissable in court.

       So looking forward to FRIDAY!!! Waiting to hear what he and SheLie will say on the stand as to why they ‘misled’ the court about finances…

       I don’t troll Pro Zim sites. So anyone know if the donations are still rolling in? Can’t imagine anyone of them after viewing the reenactment videos, audio interviews, with some objectivity, would still be willing to support him and his lies.

       • I’m wondering if GZ’s father will speak again at his son’s second bond hearing. I would really love to hear that George Washington speech again… “George never lies.” His father might as well tack on “and he did not chop down that cherry tree or murder that black boy.” He is Honest George Zimmerman…you know!

       • Qetno, you are so right. He makes his son out to be a saint. He is either delusional or he has no shame at all. I pick the latter. I hate, hate hearing him speak. He is always talking about his life being in danger but he didnt mind doing those interviews. He is always saying poor George but George brought all this on himself. I am so glad we are living in a new age where things may happen but just like this cover up it won’t stay covered for long. We have come a long way, we still have further to go but people like Zimmerman Sr makes me wonder what all he has done to so many men and women while serving the public.

     • good point. I didn’t know about his traffic violation so will take your word for it. I think George actually beleives what he says and that is why he has passed these tests. I don’t think he has much concept of the truth as we could see in the reencactment. He was recalling conversations that just did not happen as though they truly did, like they were fact and he was quoting word for word. I think George’s reality is whatever he makes up in his own mind. As far as confronting Trayvon, technically we now know that while George was following, Trayvon spoke the first words so it was easy for him to pass that question. As far as being in fear for his life, well i just think he has convinced himself of it because he seems to live in a different universe than the rest of us where it is ok to do what he did and have no remorse.

       • CherokeeNative informed me the lie about his speeding was a control question. If you search for his past calls to non-emergency/911 one of them was about someone he believed was driving erratically after having cut him off. It was reported that he chased the person down, and the person wouldn’t stop because he was afraid he was going to be attacked.

         I agree with you that he passed because in his mind it is what happened. They should have asked did you attempt to detain the guy rather than did you confront. I think more questions should have been asked than just the two. Also, I think he was in fear for his life because of the situation he created in his own mind, but killing someone because you IMAGINE something isn’t exactly reasonable.

       • QETNO “If you search for his past calls to non-emergency/911 one of them was about someone he believed was driving erratically after having cut him off. It was reported that he chased the person down, and the person wouldn’t stop because he was afraid he was going to be attacked.”

         It would appear George is not only the “walking in the rain” police but he is also the traffic police too. He seems to have a history of deciding who can do what and thinks he has the right to enforce it. Why is he always putting himself in situations where he is either in pursuit or an aggressive protector? Seems to me George was the one prowling the neighbourhood acting suspiciously, shining his torch on people, and he’s lucky no one called the cops on him and then shot him! Everytime he finds issue with someone his behaviour ends up being far worse and also dangerous….chasing someone down in his car, following innocent kids with a gun, assaulting a cop….and then there is the stories of George the Protector actually being George the Bully (gasp!!!! gee thats hard to believe NOT!!)..and i also agree with the person who said it is suspicious that GZ and his wife are the only witnesses to most of these suspicious people.

     • The question about speeding was a control/test question. GZ was instructed to lie about that and the color of the walls.

331. Another observation: GZ himself states that the recording of the screams doesn’t sound like him, yet his father (and others) have claimed that without a doubt that is GZ screaming, and anyone who knows George knows that’s his voice. HMMM. Oh yeah, is that so, huh? Funny they say that sounds just like George when he admits on tape it doesn’t. You know that’s going to be used in court to discredit his family/friends when they try to say that it’s George.

     Also, why are the Zimmerman supporters still clinging to John, as if his statement is the end all be all? John is NO “star witness.” They claim his first statement was correct. HA! They mean his statement to PD on scene after he was able to get the impression of what OTHER people thought had happened. His first statement was *actually* two men on the ground wrestling, and then there was a shot, and now one was lying in the grass dead. THAT was the first statement. WRESTLING. Sorry, but you DO NOT go from wrestling to MMA punching that just makes no fucking sense. If you see one person hitting another, you are going to say ONE was hitting ANOTHER. If you see both hitting each other, you are going to say BOTH threw punches. You are not going to see one or both throwing punches then describe it as wrestling…that just doesn’t make sense. Also, there was no sense of urgency in John’s 911 call. NONE. Totally calm. That’s odd for someone who claims later to have seen one person just totally throwing down on the other. Also, who waits until a minute after the shot to call 911 in a situation where someone is throwing potentially deadly blows? Then, he states on the phone, “I’m not going out there – HEH HEH.” That’s kind of a weird utterance considering he supposedly already went out there based on his later statement to PD. BUT THEEENNN, we have John’s awesome statements to the state prosecutor and investigators for them. He was out there, he wasn’t out there, he opened the screen, but he didn’t go outside, “I would NEVER be outside in a situation like that.” I saw 10s, but the fight was 5 minutes. They were on the sidewalk, no the grass, no the sidewalk, no the grass. I ran upstairs and then there was a shot, but here I am on my 911 call a minute after the shot. 20s later the cops were there, NO LIE. I could go on, but my point, JOHN IS NOT A STAR WITNESS!!!! His statement has wavered back and forth since the 911 call.

     You can’t claim John is a star witness for the defense, if you claim DeeDee is not a star witness for the prosecution. Really, NEITHER are going to be the star witness, IMO. I’m so tired of the pimping out of John’s story, and the tearing down of DeeDee’s. Both should be questioned, and I do question DeeDee’s statement. I want to know what happens in that 2 minute gap she mentions. I question her statement, but I’m not so sure she’s lying, rather, I think she’s very confused and frustrated trying to piece together the events of what she heard, but could not see. Now, as to her adding to her last statement about hearing Trayvon say, “Get off…Get off…” I believe during her first statement she said she could hear a little bit in the background, but wasn’t entirely sure what was being said or happening. I do think it’s a bit strange she wouldn’t mention that bit the first time, but mentioned it the second after pressed if she heard anything else. I would like to hear more of what she has to say uninterrupted, and see if she has a good explanation of what happened in the additional minutes where TM lost GZ for a bit. So far, I don’t think she corroborates GZ’s story in any other way than GZ and TM lost each other temporarily. TM asking why he was being followed would not turn him into the aggressor. She never says TM approached GZ, but GZ supporters like to say that. She does state that GZ is back, GZ is behind TM, GZ is getting close, etc. I question her statement, but until I hear what happened in the 2 minutes, I have no reason to believe she is intentionally lying. I think the fact that TM was on the phone at all at the exact moment the confrontation occurred is going to be better evidence than her statement. The records won’t lie, and the exact time the phone call lasted can be retrieved from the phone.

     I see no motive for TM to attack. TM attacking just to attack doesn’t seem to make any sense. If TM wanted to attack just to attack, he had plenty of opportunities. He would have taken the first, if he really just wanted to attack someone for no reason. TM ran. That doesn’t indicate someone looking for an attack. GZ’s he’s coming towards me…he’s checking me out…he’s got his hand in his waistband…he’s got something in his hands all comes BEFORE he runs. He never mentions him passing him then coming back towards him, and it doesn’t fit the timeline. TM passed GZ, and went on his way. All of GZ’s he’s doing this or that appear to be all in his mind. Also, all this garbage of TM was still outside, TM was up at the other end of the sidewalk, and TM wouldn’t run doesn’t prove shit! Nothing says TM had to be scared before the encounter, and nothing says he had to run. TM could be anywhere he wanted doing fucking jumping jacks while making monkey noises for all I give a fuck. Just because GZ says it happened one way, DOES NOT MAKE IT SO! There is not a shred of evidence that proves that TM started it. There’s more circumstantial indicators that it was GZ then TM. Oh, and the TM ran to hide contraband is hilarious. He’s scared of getting caught with some sort of drugs, but not scared of getting caught beating/attempting to murder someone. BS BS BS! That’s stupid.

     Suspensions for non-violent offenses does not add up to TM attacking. All the other TM claims come predominantly from FB and Twitter. I don’t take unsubstantiated rumor from fake and hacked social media accounts as any sort of proof of anything. I don’t take unsubstantiated gossip as proof, either. Nothing legitimate proves TM was in any way violent. TM was probably not an angel. I doubt any 17 year old male is an angel. Where is the bus driver TM allegedly attacked? Where is the info on the jewelry TM allegedly had? Where is there someone claiming that is their property and that is stolen? Where are all the people that have been terrorized by this allegedly violent, thug, criminal TM? Hmmm. It really makes you wonder! TM had no arrest record, and no convictions. GZ had an arrest for a fight with LE. GZ had an injunction for domestic violence. GZ has documented road rage. GZ and his wife are documented for both failing to pay CC bills. It is documented that him and his wife both attempted to deceive the court. GZ has more substantiated claims of bad behavior, but somehow TM is the thug.

     I believe it is the forensics, timeline, and GZ’s own words that will prove his guilt. We must remember doubt must fit the reasonable person standard, and GZ’s claim must fit ALL of the requirements for SYG/Self-Defense.

332. Here’s a link to the newly released investigative reports: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections/NEWS/zimmerman_martin_evidence_20120626.pdf

     • It’s mostly a review of the evidence to date, from Serino, in support of a request for Capias that ended up being denied.

       There is a search authorization form from GZ which reveals that his cell phone was a BLACKBERRY. Most of these have GPS capabilities. But I don’t have any idea how that works in them. There are various GPS apps available, but I don’t know if the phone in any way records or logs GPS locations as a matter of course, or only if an app is activated.

       Maybe someone here who has a Blackberry, and still has the instruction manual, could check this?

       • he should have stayed in his truck and looked up the address on his GPS…oh that’s right, he never got an address

333. I hate to sound so dense, but can someone explain to me how this blog works? There are multiple off shoots to it, and I can’t figure out which one to be reading. LOL If someone could just provide me with the different links to each branch of BCC:List pertaining to GZ/Trayvon case, and explain what each one is in reference to, my life would be easier. Thanks everyone…you are doing an awesome job.

     • HAHA Cherokee
       it goes all over the place.

       First is the MAP one. When that got too big, NLME made the Evidece one (when the big evidence dump came out) but people still used both. Then he made the Discrepancies in Re-enactment one .

       Write down the URL and the comment number of your comment. Then you can easily find it again and read down from there. Actually read up a few screens, too, as there may be fresher replies to some of the comments above yours.

       OR tick the Notify Me box on each blog. The emails will take you directly to the newer posts.

       If you want to reply to a longer thread, and there is no reply link at the bottom (WordPress is very stingy with reply buttons) use the Reply on the main comment the others come off. Yours will end up in under them. Just name the person you are responding to.

       It’s quite a good blog format for your average blog with 10 replies. It’s what NLME already had. He had no way to know it would turn into a 2000-post international forensic research project.

       • Thanks Aussie – I will follow your suggestions. 🙂

334. WHY did Serino go from detective to patrol division. Did he take heat for not covering up for Zimmerman? He filed his capias for arrest on March 13th then I believe then a few days later comes out with a public statement that they could find no credible evidence against Zimmerman, and now he is on patrol division. SOMETHING STINKS! He’s taking the heat for other people’s ineptitude.

     • Actually, the Press Conference Chief Lee held was on March 12th. In that PC, he stated there was no probable cause. The next day, Serino filed the Capias. CYA’ing maybe but a slap in the face of the chain of command.

     • This development is strange. Serino did an okay job. This weird case took a lot of extra work. Maybe he ran out of time and got massive interference before he could tie up all the loose ends. Here are possibilities:
       1) he was too hard on GZ in some superior’s opinion
       2) he went too easy on GZ in some superior’s opinion
       3) he just got fed up with the politics of the detective position and didn’t want to keep doing it.
       I’m going with the latter. It’s a shame to take a demotion. Maybe someday long after this case he will try again.

335. Some are saying that he is the one who leaked information from the department. Matt Gutman is said to confirm this in his Tweets:

     http://twitter.com/#!/mattgutmanABC

     • Quite likely it was him who did the leak, to get the case moving along.

       I saw somewhere just today or yesterday that he had ASKED to be transferred out. I wish I could remember where. Don’t blame him, he’d be disgusted with how this was handled.

       I think he made some mistakes early on (eg telling a witness it was GZ screaming) but by the end of the long interview (the one in 3 parts) he knew what was up. Then it was swept under the carpet, no doubt from pressure being applied, and he’d be pretty disgusted by it all.

       Probably not from any sympathy towards TM or anything like that, just from his professional expertise being doubted and disregarded. Perhaps it was the first time he was involved in a cover-up, to convince him other alleged cover-ups may have been true, too.

     • Not sure if anyone has posted this link but this guy breaks if down in a nutshell!

       Zimmerman Video Reenactment Contradicts Statement and Crime Scene Evidence: UPDATED BELOW

       • Thanks for posting that tidbit Ms Nila. Every opinion counts to get to the bottom of the Zimmerman investigation.

     • This one is interesting too, the visual is intense. I think there is going to be a lot of visual such as this and the mapping on this site in the trial.

       • yeah its a good visual and it is correct…george was still on the phone for a while after he was told to stop following, if he walked straight (east) he would have still been on the phone when he got to the end of the path. He never indicated in the reenactment that he left the path to actually look for a number on a house, he says he remembered that they told him to meet him at his truck so he headed back. ALL BULLSHIT. He should have still been on the phone with them. There is a missing minute or two. In the reenactment he talks as though his phone call had finished before he got to the road at the end of the path. In the reenactment he said he was walking and he looked right but couldn’t see Trayvon so kept walking straight. He didn’t say i stopped and finished my phone call and then walked straight, remembered i was suppose to meet them back at my car and returned (which is a big ass fucking lie anyway)…he is toast. His reenactment is impossible, he walked south looking for Trayvon and found him. If he had just admitted what he had done he probably would have been charged with manslaughter, cut a deal and already be home with his doppleganger plotting how to save the world from bullies, stalkers and traffic offenders, and the Martins/Fultons would have at least some closure.

     • oops i was wrong about him sounding as though the call had finished by the time he got to the end of the path, he actually makes it seem like the call ended when he was at the end of the path, he was going to get a number but then told them to meet him at his car (didn’t happen)…then he walked back and was approached by Trayvon. Complete bullshit, since there is a missing one or two minutes.

336. http://www2.hernandotoday.com/news/news/2011/jul/16/experts-say-voice-stress-analysis-no-more-accurate-ar-244402/

     This is an article about voice stress analysis and how it has been debunked. As calm as Zimmerman was after killing the kid you would think he was feeling nothing, therefore any type of stimulation and adrenaline that you would normally feel after an horrific event could possibly have been suppressed due to him being overly medicated. Who knows!!! Him passing based on questioning about this case seems fairly odd, especially when he has told several different stories of the event in question. Odd how all these tests came about, but never a mention of volunteering urine for a drug test which would be much more relevant.

     • Not to mention that was administered the day after the shooting, correct? Why not do it the very night before he’s had time to get his story thought out. Then again the next day…

       • He may have requested it the night of the murder but it seems it may have taken time to get the examiner there to SPD. The test is very bogus. Two questions are asked and with all his inconsistencies? I have no doubt this fool thinks he did not start the confrontation. Stress tests only work when someone is in jeopardy. He thought it would all blowover and if less than an hour AFTER the murder, he had normal vitals, I believe he could ace the test. Probably why he requested it. It will never see the light of day in court however.

       • @princss6

         Ok, I thought I heard the person who administered the test say that he requested it. Who does that anyway?! GZ had to know it’s not admissible in court…but he wasn’t banking on it getting this far and figured by passing, it would show him in a favorable light.

337. Gutman has tweeted that the tweet was bogus, that he would never reveal a source. The CT is really going nuts over this.

338. I looked at the pictures of GZ’s weapon and holster, the belt clip on the holster is set up for a left hand carry or for a cross draw from the left side unless he carries his pistol on the right side with the butt forward and does a super weird draw.
     It appears that the belt clip on the holster can be moved to the right or left side but the way it is stitched it appears that you cant thread a belt through it. I’m left handed and have trouble finding a reasonably priced left handed holster locally.

     • I used to work at my Aunts fabric shop and looked at the way the holster is stitched together.
       I used to run Berudan and Meistergram monogramming machines and can actually monogram with a treadle machine.

339. DeeDee heard, “Why you following me for?” and “What you doin’ round here?”
     George heard, “You got a problem?” and said, “No, I don’t have a problem.”
     Are these misremembered paraphrases of the same event? They may be two separate encounters. This would mean . . . Trayvon was approached by George or somebody else before the sidewalk “T”. If it was someone else meeting up with Trayvon, George’s part of the story could still be somewhat true.

     • I’m confused. One of those statements is from Zimmerman (somebody that hasn’t told the truth much yet) and the other is from DeeDee (the last person that talked to Trayvon alive).

       • I give no credence to any truthfulness of George’s story, but what I think Jay is saying is that someone else could have rousted Treyvon from the south end of the path with the words DeeDee heard, and forced Treyvon north to then meet up with George. (I’m still thinking Taaffe)

       • Yeah. Other witnesses corroborate that there was a short, loud argument near the “T” and a 15 second scuffle moving south across the grass to where the cries, “helps”, and shooting take place. I have timed out DeeDee’s version of the encounter and GZ’s version, too. They both last 30 seconds. From this I choose DeeDee’s wording and details (head phones being “yanked”? out, the expression by Trayvon “get off, get off”, and the phone going dead). This aligns with the cell phone being found there.
         There must be more to it. Taaffe or any neighbor could have seen Trayvon first. He would naturally call George of the watch. Seems reasonable men would work in pairs like real police do. One could flush the criminal out to the other. I bet a kid would sound really terrified of two. One could be wearing a white shirt. Was the hand reaching for the pistol that of someone else who is actually meaner than GZ and is now being covered up for? If someone other than George did the confronting that would help explain how he passed the lie detector question, “Did you confront the guy before you shot him?”

     • I’m believing DeeDee because she was alarmed and scared for Trayvon at the time. This would mean her brain was recording exactly what she heard. Her testimony came weeks later, but I think it was accurate. To me this means either this was an additional earlier encounter or GZ was rewording. The words are nothing alike. The structure and number of phrases is different. And the intent is changed.

     • I hear you Jay, but it makes no sense because Zimmerman did not say Trayvon said that. In one of Zimmerman’s statements he says Trayvon’s first words to him were, ” Got a problem Homie?” In another one he omits the last word. DeeDee says Trayvon was talking with her when he was surprised by Zimms sudden appearance and said “Why are you following me for?” to which Zimmerman replied, “What you doing around here?”
       Look at the scene: At that moment Trayvon Martin was talking on the phone with his gf thinking he had shook off his pursuer who he ran from. He had just told her he lost him then the sudden surprise when they meet face to face. Immediately after those few words were exchanged the phone goes dead. Now why would Trayvon start to beat up on Zimmerman while he was in the middle of a conversation with his gf especially after he perceived the guy was a creep or a crazy man who he had ran from. In Zimmerman’s statement he says he exited his vehicle that was parked at the top of Twin Trees Lane and walked all the way to the next north/south road to Retreat View Circle looking for a street number. What a joke that one was. He claims to walking past the entrance of the T that leads to the back entrance of the two streets. After reaching RVC he doesn’t bother to give the dispatcher an address. Now suddenly on his way back Trayvon emerges at the T entrance out of the darkness from some bushes and says, “Got a problem, etc?” This is just one contradiction in the ZImmerman reenactment story. It was Trayvon who was afraid, not Zimmerman who left his vehicle in pursuit of his “suspect”. Nothing that Zimmerman says matches up with the dispatch call. .He has been caught in his lies. .

       • Agree with your assessment 100%. Between Zimmerman’s lies,the physical location of Trayvon Martin’s dead body and Zimmerman’s mindset (not letting the a$$hole get away), Zimmerman’s admitted pursuit and stalking of the “kid” in his “late teens” before Zimmerman’s killing, I don’t know how Zimmerman or his attorney(s) or his supporters can justify what obviously went down.

340. Zimmerman screaming compared to 911 call screaming:

     http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-voice-samples-released-compared-trayvon-martin-audio

     • QETNO, Thanks for posting the link.

       Zimmerman’s voice sounds nothing like the screaming for help that night. His voice is much lower pitched whilst the voice on the 911 recording is wailing and high pitched that sounds like a young man in fear of his life.

341. Found this over on Leatherman’s Law blog [http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/zimmerman-video-reenactment-contradicts-statement-and-crime-scene-evidence/]

     ===================================================
     Pooh Huffy says:
     June 27, 2012 at 2:27 pm

     One thing that I noticed on the evidence pictures today is that GZ’s holster is set up for left handed carry or for a cross draw from the right hip, if he went for his gun with his right hand it would have been butt forward on his right side.
     I can’t find anything about which side his holster was on when the police got there but GZ indicates that it was on his right side when he drew his gun.
     It would have been difficult to grab the gun with his right hand and flip it over in the situation that he claims he was in unless he shot with the gun upside down.
     See if you can find another gun owner to weigh in on this, I’ve tried this weird draw with my weapon and it is uncomfortable for me to do this standing up.
     Reply
     ===================================================

     Any gun guys have an opinion?

     • I see what you mean about the holster. In the reenactment, he used his right hand to demonstrate how he pulled out the gun before Trayvon. I believe that GZ already had the gun out though as soon as he saw this kid between the houses in the dark.

       • Wouldn’t it be likely that when the cries changed into blood curdling screams for “Help” like one was about to be shot to death that the gun was out? That would be Trayvon screaming. And he couldn’t scream (or talk) after the shot.
         If, like GZ claims, he didn’t know Trayvon was shot, he mounted Trayvon, he spread Trayvon’s hands apart, and wanted help to restrain this kid, then GZ would have kept on yelling for “help”. The silence tells the story. George didn’t need to scream because he had a gun.

       • @Jay, I cannot wrap my mind around how within seconds after his so called beating (that was almost rendering him unconscious) he managed to slide out from under Trayvon, get up,straddle his body then extend his arms and hands, let alone Trayvon saying anything after being fatally shot. When the police arrive they find Trayvon’s hands tucked under his body. How did that happen!?. I think Mary Cucher is the best witness of what she heard and then saw when going outside just moments after the fatal shot. . Unlike other witnesses she had not changed her statement.

       • @San San, I agree %100.

342. Hey, so, the 911 call from W11 & W20 (the one that catches the screams)…does Jeremy actually say, “Get your coat. Get in the house!”? I hear a door slide open/closed before then I hear the husband say something that sounds like get your coat, in the house, or something to that effect then moments later the shot.

     • Why would he say “get your coat, get in the house?” That doesn’t make any sense.

       • Haven’t listened to the call in forever. If this was said, it would be interesting to know who he was talking to.

       • @NLME

         Jeremy speaks at 36-37s mark. This was pointed out to me by someone else, and I can hear it, but his wife a few seconds later says, “they’re sending em.” So, I just assumed that wasn’t what he was saying. I would assume it more probable he was saying, “Get here now, they’re behind the house,” but it sounds shorter than that. The first part sounds slurred, but the last part sounds to me like “in the house.”

         Can you tell what he’s actually saying at that point?

         • Thank you. I hear, “Get me a coat — in the house.”

           He’s on the porch…she’s inside (or closer to being inside)…he wants to go outside but doesn’t want to get rained on?

           Does their porch have an outdoor exit or is it completely enclosed?

           If the above is what was said, it sounds like he had the best viewpoint of anybody. I haven’t listened to his witness statement audio yet…maybe this is discussed.

       • @NLME

         Thank you so much for taking another listen. I would assume all houses have the same layout, so I would assume, like John, that they also have a sliding back exit. I haven’t come across his audio statement, yet, and I’m not sure if I’ve heard hers, either. I still believe he, or possibly both, heard or saw more. I got the impression she was hiding in the house, and that he was right there looking out at points. Even if they didn’t see anything, I don’t understand how they didn’t hear more of the back and forth with how loud and clear the screams came through in that recording.

         • Robert Zimmerman’s testimony was just replayed on TruTV and I overheard the 911 call. It’s weird I couldn’t hear this before when concentrating on the specific second marks but Jeremy clearly says (in a southern drawl), “They need to come now.”

           • “Robert Zimmerman’s testimony was just replayed on TruTV and I overheard the 911 call. It’s weird I couldn’t hear this before…”

             I watched that this morning and heard the echo of the gunshot for the first time.

             Or at least that’s what I think I heard. This time.

             unitron

       • NLME, what point do you hear that in the 911 call? Is it before or after the shot? Can you tell me what is said after the shot? There’s the shot then…something…I can’t tell…

         • I’m referencing the 36-37 mark of witness #11’s call. Jeremy says, “They need to come now.” So, no mention of a coat.

       • Hm, interesting. It doesn’t sound clear, but if he does have a southern accent then I can understand the distortion. Whatever he’s saying, it sounds urgent. I’m still wondering if he heard or saw more than we know to this point, or if he just thought/felt the tone of the person/people outside got more desperate, so anticipated something terrible was about to happen.

343. Here’s the picture, the belt clip is on the back of the holster in this picture.
     
     Here is the picture of the other side of his holster, the bottom of the holster is to the right,.
     
     I know there has to be other pistol owners on here that could weigh in on this.

344. I’ve come up with this.
     Trayvon went around the corner and waited for GZ, in the shadows and confronted GZ face to face when he appeared. TM busted GZ in the face and either GZ fell or was shoved into the tree nearby as his wounds are not consistent with his story.
     GZ is stumbling backward as TM continues and he falls back into the grass, His holster not having a strap to keep it in his gun in it falls out.
     TM sees this and gets on top of GZ and is screaming for help as GZ struggles to get to his gun.
     GZ finally gets a grip on his gun with his non dominant hand and shoots TM in the chest.
     GZ writes with his left hand, I would like to project from the way that his holster is set up and him saying it was on his right hip that he preferred a left handed “Cross Draw” from the right hip and his gun had fell out.
     His gun would have been butt forward on his right hip.
     I think that this theory would help explain the timeline better a that point.
     Help me here people.

     • The left handed Cross Draw is more dramatic, I put on an oversize T Shirt and stick my gun down the front of my pants.
       I don’t keep a round in the chamber and if I did I don’t want anymore children anyway.

     • You’ve got the issue of Trayvon fleeing and then all of a sudden turning into the aggressor.

       Something like the following link matches DeeDee’s call, makes up for the missing few minutes in Zimmerman’s reenactment (remember: he’s adamant about saying he wasn’t following the unarmed teen though he obviously/admittedly was), and shows Trayvon continuing to flee before he stops (because he was tackled/shoved from behind, enough was enough, he ran out of breath, etc.?).

       

     • He could have been carrying the gun inside his pants on the right side but he writes left handed.

       • I stand corrected, I read the “Report Of Investigation”, the holster is described as a inside the waistband holster.
         Oh well.

       • Yeah, Pooh…that’s kinda important…like literally a smoking gun that he could not have been on his back.

345. I always thought it was GZ screaming, I read something about he didn’t recognize screaming on the 911 call that you hear the gunshot on.
     I always thought it was suspicious that you don’t hear GZ moaning in pain or anything after the gunshot.

     • Yeah — it apparently wasn’t Zimmerman crying for help…

       http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

       The FBI has — so far — only said they can’t identify the screamer with 100% certainty. If they want to continue getting their hands dirty in this case, I assume the FBI will also eventually conclude that Zimmerman wasn’t the person screaming for help.

       • Here’s a small point about the screams for help. We will be able to pinpoint when John, witness #6, opened his door, told the two to stop, and said he would call 911. During this little sequence when we are led to believe it was George was conversing with John, did the terrified screams for “Help” continue? This took quite a few seconds but the screams continue at regular intervals.

       • but john says the guy was yelling for help and he said he would call 911, he never said they were conversing. I am not sure. I know there are experts saying it was not zimmerman yelling but i’ve always had a feeling it is (it even sounds like him to me) and i don’t put much stock in those experts. But i don’t think he was yelling help for fear of his life, i think he was yelling help because he had caught this thug thief and the kid was trying to get away so he must be guilty so heeeeelllp meeeeee heeeelllllppp as in help me stop this criminal he’s trying to run. He knew the cops would be there soon and he wasn’t gonna let this one get away. It is also the one constant in zimmermans many stories.

346. Interesting story that adds to our understanding of GZ’s character flaws:

     http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/27/3680024/zimmerman-failed-to-appear-in.html

     • he has such a chequered past. Not as bad as some of course but he doesn’t seem to care much about others unless its a false show of concern because he wants to play protector or hero. He doesn’t have much respect for the law or legal system himself but is quick to try and be the enforcer.

347. One thing I have wondered about is – why does the gun look like it is broken? The barrel is bent upward; that is not the precision tool that we expect a gun to be. Would’t that be difficult to aim? Did that happen before or after police took possession of the weapon?

     • I wondered the same but am not familiar with firearms.

       • The barrel isn’t broken. The slide is locked back and the clip has been removed. This makes it easy to ascertain that it is completely unloaded. You can visually check that there is no bullet in the chamber with it locked back this way.

         When the gun is loaded and cocked, the slide moves forward and peels the top bullet out of the clip and chambers it. When fired, the slide has little extractor clips that eject the spent brass, then on the way back it shucks up another bullet from the clip.

         All guns break down into really small components, because firing a gun gets burnt crud into its works, and you have to be able to disassemble and clean it thoroughly with powder solvent and then carefully lubricate the barrel lock and the slides with a high quality gun grease before reassembling it.

       • It’s just he way the gun is built, everything lines up when the slide is forward.
         I have a Steyr M9 (first model) and my barrel does that but not as much.

348. Okay, we’ve got a few more problems here, that I’m quite sure the SP and FBI are already working with.

     Remember what I said about GZ’s wounds not being the result of contact/combat with TM? Okay, let’s add to that GZ has bloody hands and arms. The paramedics cleaned them up! But the only contributor we have for GZ bloody hands and arms is GZ himself, right? Okay.

     I googled around for some blood spatter stuff. It’s very complicated because there are a welter of variables. But, I was able to come away with this:

     A drop of blood on a hard surface, at room temperature (72º) dried in 70 minutes at low humidity. No cite because I don’t think the poster meant for his little experiment to be used as a general baseline in a criminal matter. So, anyone wanting a better metric, will need to do their own experiments.

     But, generally I think I can safely say that a “ball park” stab at it, would probably yield a longer drying time, since it was raining (higher than low humidity) and it was 60º (12º less than room temperature).

     Okay, at the extreme low end it appear the blood becomes available, some ten minutes before the supposed fight. Which would place the event that created it, in GZ’s truck at the cut through. But that’s the extreme low.
     The extreme high would place the blood flow starting nearly an hour before the supposed fight, and that would place it at GZ house.

     Of course that’s the extreme high end and as we know, the truth usually is somewhere in the middle/median. Which would put the wounds appearance somewhere around the clubhouse.

     Could the anomalies in GZ’s tale be caused by him wanting to demonstrate, that perhaps TM viewed him closely and didn’t become extremely agitated, as he would if he saw a bloodied strange man following him? Could it be that GZ actually avoided letting Tm get a good look at himself, by simply staying behind him all the time, then concocting rest of the story?

     Well, I don’t know, but I’d certainly think he would rather everyone be discussing whether or not he was following, rather than talking about his bloody hands and arms that the paramedic had to clean up.

     After all, he’s wearing a long sleeved outer garment, so what’s with this need to clean his arms? Oh, right, he must have had his sleeves rolled up!

     Oh, and another thing I noticed, looking at the photograph of the back of GZ’s head, his skull appears to have a rather subtle ridge running down the back, between the small upper wound and the larger lower one. Sort of makes it appear that the skin broke in the “valleys” on either side. Hardly what you’d expect from a head bashing on flat concrete.

     So, since Trayvon isn’t the source of these wounds, they had to come in from somewhere, filling some time slot. Then, notice too that there’s no explanation of why GZ’s hands and arms are covered with blood. But, shouldn’t that blood have transferred to Trayvon when GZ and him wrestled for control of the gun? And perhaps even more transfer when GZ grabbed TM’s arms and/or pressed down on TM’s back? Weird eh?

349. i have refrained from talking about the final words by Martin after he was shot by Zimmerman due to how sad it makes me to even think about it, but I have gotten so irritated with people saying he was able to speak calmly.

     I am a registered respiratory therapist and I have been for almost 20 years. My job is the lungs, I work mostly in the Intensive care unit and I have seen more than my fair share of gun shot wounds, etc. Ventilation is my life. Breathing is the number 1 life function and without it you cease to exist.

     Martin was shot and obtained a tear to his lung: when this occurred his lung started to deflate and leak air into the plural spaces. Once this occurred Martin began to smother. After the bullet pierced the lungs it hit the right ventricle. This in itself made it hard for Martin to say a word because now that the Ventricle is hit you have all the blood in the heart rushing into the lung cavity. This all happened within seconds. Martin was already filling up with free air while the bullet was traveling to the right ventricle to tear it causing even more blood to build up, the exchange of blood was not completed due to the right ventricle being torn and the blood spilling out.

     This is why I am angered and sad for the Martin family, this kid died a horrible death and there is no way that zimmerman did not notice this kid was dead.

     The brain swelling is due to severe hypoxic state and bleeding, once the heart stopped the blood was not able to oxygenate deoxygenated blood, nor was it able to circulate so the blood just pools up. How Zimmerman can live with himself makes him less then human. Martins father says he saw blood coming out of his mouth, this occurred due to the pooling of blood in the chest cavity. The body has about 8-10 pints of blood in it.

     • oh God now i feel like crying

       • Jo,

         I am sorry, I felt the same way and I still feel horrible after knowing where the bullet traveled. Lungs don’t float and that is why we drown in water. No amount of CPR on the scene could have saved him. In the hospital environment when free air or blood gets into the pleural space we usually insert chest tubes to relieve the air and blood, the blood and air can’t remove itself. People need to understand what happened to this 17 yr old kid. Zimmerman was fine, Martin was taller but Zimmerman weighed more, there is no way he couldn’t have at least fought for his life. Zimmerman never fought for his life because he never fought with Martin. Could it be that a punch was never thrown, just wrestling?

         We all know that Zimmerman kept following Martin, so when he caught up with him and as Dee Dee said, Martin said “what are you following me for” and Zimmerman says ” what are you doing here”. I believe he then pushed Martin to the ground and they began to wrestle and wrestle only. I don’t believe Martin ever got a punch in. We all know there was NO Dna of Zimmerman under Martins fingernails, on his hands, no where!! we know that Martin nor Zimmerman had any defensive wounds, we know that Zimmerman had none of Martins dna on his hands, under his nail beds, etc. How does this type of brutal fighting occur and neither have any trace of each other except traces of Dna on articles of clothing. The only way this could have happened is if they were both wearing gloves and that is highly unlikely. To me the only credible witness is Dee Dee simply because she actually could tell you the events and have it backed up by phone records. Zimmerman only has a nose injury and head injury to back his claim, he authors the story so the injury means nothing to me. For all we know since Martins dna does not seem to be anywhere on his wounds, he could have gotten that anywhere. No one was out there but those two, so how can we be sure that Martin did this to him? Not by Johns account because John is a liar. Where was Taaffe? is this why he is on the witness list , because we all know he is not a strong character witness. As we see from the videos at the pool, etc. Zimmerman seemed to have time to do some things to himself with the help of a friend. I asked myself, if he was banged against the pavement then surely they swabbed the sidewalk, fresh blood will stay there until the elements dry it and absorb it, so surely with all the head banging he should have had skin, hair, and tissue on the sidewalk( I don’t remember reading this, can you guys tell me if they swabbed or not),. when Zimmerman stated he banged his head against the pavement they should have immediately went to that area and found the bloody pavement. I am a critical care therapist and I know head trauma, this was no head trauma. I would have loved to see how he was slid across the pavement and pounded but yet he arises with 2 little wounds, how is it that the back of his head did not show scrapped skin and tissue. How is it that Zimmerman got what looks like two perfect cuts from this ordeal, the cuts are too perfect and too far up for me to believe. I know most of you remember falling on the sidewalk as a kid, either you were running when you weren’t suppose to, learning to ride your bike, etc. When you fell and hit your elbow, knee, etc, you could always rest assure that you would see striations from the skin scrubbing against the pavement along with blood and tissue. Of coarse it looked worse than it really was.

         I am also very curious as to why a witness had to take a picture of the back of Zimmerman’s head, the police only took a picture of the nose. surely Zimmerman showed them his head. Broken noses heal ugly without medical intervention. I surely hope that the prosecutions makes Zimmerman have his head and nose xrayed, a Radiologist can tell if he has an old break and how old ! The whole band aid across the nose was ridiculous, what can a band aid do for a broken nose, and it surely couldn’t have been on there for the tiny scratch I saw. Puhleeze. Zimmerman went home that night without any real medical intervention. I am sure daddy made him go to the doctor the next day or the police told him to. I have settled on not trusting anything the Sanford police said.

     • Thank you so much for explaining that Theresa. I cannot comprehend how the confessed killer could fabricate that story of Trayvon Martin uttering any thing after being shot in such a way..He messed up royally when he said that. Good grief, if he had even shown any sense of remorse, but all he’s done is excuse his own conduct to save his own skin. How on earth can the pathological liar live with himself, I could never imagine.

     • He died a horrible death but the moments before his death, he was afraid, vulnerable and helpless. It must be hard for his family to grapple with, probably the hardest thing. Knowing your child suffered…well, I don’t know how his family gets through it.

     • Hi Theresa, a lot of things in this case have made me want to cry. I have read about his injuries before and what they are but the way you described it and the situation was very heart felt and really humanised Trayvon and what he went through. So although it was sad to read it is the truth. I really wonder if George thinks about it like that or is he so detatched like a lot of his supporters seem to be. Thanks and i really do enjoy reading all your posts here.

       • Jo, Thanks and I enjoy your posts as well, in fact I left you a comment before I saw this one. When Zimmerman made the hoodie reference in jail it let me know that he had no compassion for Martin and still doesn’t. From his point of view shooting Martin is a victory in part because of the theft in his neighborhood by African American males, and even though we know Martin was not involved, he was still the sacrificial lamb in this.

         I am hunted by this case, sometimes I just look at his picture, and I pray that it doesn’t happen to my son. It could happen to any child of any race. His mother has courage that I am not sure that I have.

350. Watching live feed of bond hearing which is going off into other evidentiary stuff…lot of it has been addressed in earlier hearings, like medical records. Hoping GZ gets on the stand. Waiting for them to start talking about W6 (John) testimony.

     • O’Mara talked about witness #6 — “John” — by first addressing him as witness #20 and then #9. He never got the witness number correct and mentioned his (now recanted) MMA style fighting statement. Weird…

       http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent

       • His whole spiel was taken right out of the “I Am Zimmerman” supporters play book. He focused on weak evidence. I think he’s worried, actually.

       • I’m sure it was JUST an honest mistake – err…nice obfuscation for the audience.

351. ok, sorry. I am being driven crazy by the head pounding on the pavement thing. I keep looking at the back of Zimmermans head. I also caught on to him saying that Martin slid him on the pavement. He also volunteers that Martin had an object in his hand. Zimmerman was trying to cover his bases on the pavement issue. He knows he was pounded on that pavement at all. Had his head been swabbed as well they would have found pavement debris if it actually happened but as we all know shotty work was done on collecting evidence. Take a look at what this guy has to say about it…

     http://my.firedoglake.com/mason/tag/forensic-science/

     • riisey

       Thank you for your ‘professtional’ assessment of his and Trayvon’s injuries.There’s absolutely nothing believable to anyone, with ‘common sense’, that believes his head was beat against the sidewalk for any amount of time! Nothing about EMTs and Ofc. Smith’s evaluation of GZ following the so called sucker punch, sidewalk-head banging, brutal, life threatening beating, GZ claims, supports his story.

       • Tina,
         You are very welcome. In my line of work I see a lot and have worked with a lot of people, newborns to geriatrics. I have seen my fair share of head trauma, and when his brother, friend and Zimmerman himself kept saying he was near death, I was salivating to see the photos, especially knowing he didn’t have to go to the emergency room. I felt there was something off in this matter. One thing I know is trauma, and I know it well. The zimmerman’s went too far with the near death accounts. They also can forget the broken nose, because it would be a mockery to the court to say he had a broken nose without xrays as proof. You can’t just simply say his nose was broken. No doctor that isn’t a quack would sit on a witness stand and say, yes! by the picture it was definitely a broken nose!! He has to have his nose xrayed, there is no way around it. O’mara better use that money wisely because he is gonna need quite a few expert witnesses, Zimmermans physician will not perjure himself, I know doctors and they just simply will not, due to malpractice insurance co, they pull the strings. He said LIKELY a closed fracture and that is what he will attest to in court. He will also say I told him to see an ENT. Omara would have to find a specialist who is not restrained under normal malpractice insurance and that makes a living testifying as a medical professional. Even then it is not really good because you can’t use your personal physicians testimony to help you.

352. HAHAHAHA. I’m dying right now. O’Mara is such a joke. He’s calling the state’s case weak, but he, himself, is using weak ass arguments. LOL! Come on, using part of W6’s statement that fits your narrative, but failing to mention his 911 call statement, PD statement, and statement w BDLR are all totally inconsistent. PLEASE! I would laugh that John guy out of court if he took the stand with that mess. O’Mara can’t even get the fuckin’ witness # correct. Oh, I loved seeing Zimmerman’s father. Always tries to get that pathetic little jab in because he can’t take facts. “I’ve heard him scream like that before.” LMAO. Your son doesn’t even think that sounds like him!! How stupid can you be. Trying to use the, waaah, but he had injuries, and that this was a big, tall, scawey bwack boy. You can’t create a situation then escalate it then whine because it didn’t go your way. I’m so sorry TBM didn’t submit to your false authority.

     Thanks for the weak ass arguments, O’Mara.

     /ENDRANT.

353. question everything

     I thought that was a poor performance of the defense today…he seemed to be stumbling over words, facts, and bringing up witness accounts that have since been retracted. On another note…anyone else surprised at the ‘unimposing’ stature of GZs father? I was expecting a bigger, more imposing figure.

     • It was not a good performance at all. O’Mara didn’t bring up anything new that would have remotely supported Zimmerman. In fact, as I noted in the Update section of the blog posting, the info O’Mara stirs up actually hurts Zimmerman’s defense in my opinion.

       • I could huff, and puff, and blow that straw house down. Shit, a gentle breeze could go by and blow that straw house down, lol. However, that need not happen since GZ and Co. can do that all on their own along other evidence.

       • Well now at least we know, SYG is off the table. He is going with self-defense and with that he admits that his client pursued Trayvon. His case in a nutshell – the confessed murderer had injuries and his Pa said it was him screaming! Oh please. Bernie is going to tear him up in court. I was a little distracted today but will watch again tonight and take notes.

         As I’ve ALWAYS maintained, O’Mara is a weasel and a liar. He says Trayvon caused his client to murder him. There is no love lost between O’Mara and I but to say that with Trayvon’s parents sitting there…to replay that tape with parents in the room. This guy is nothing more than a circus freak!

354. I think we are all in agreeance, it was a good day in court. O’mara stumbled as much as George did when he was swatting flies in the reenactment. But he really doesn’t have much to work with. You could almost see him putting his hands up like “i got nothing” as he was ummmmm-ing and aaahhhhh-ing trying to defend this mans behaviour.

     Concerning the bond money and their coded talks and transferring money to different accounts….how bad did they look. Wow, their own witness sunk them (not his fault he just had to answer the questions)..they were clearly trying to hide the money. Bernie was prepared this time that’s for sure. O’mara kept trying to point out that the money was all reconciled 4 days later…too bad, only because he was released with a GPS monitering system and couldn’t use it!! So then it all goes to the “legal fund”. Yes it was meant for living expenses but they paid all their damn credit cards and debts with the money. They are not the first couple to fall onto hard times, many families have someone imprisoned or sick who can’t pay the bills but they don’t get a gift of $200k to pay off previous spending.

     On the injuries. Weak case..oooh there was a lot of blood…um but yes the head bleeds a lot so that point was moot. He didn’t say anything about hand or arm blood though. George was very aware and alert, no sign of even a small concussion.

     Robert Zimmerman – got to feel for him, not a nice situation for a father to be in. Not sure why the questions stopped when they did though.

     George wanted to make a statement to the judge but not be cross examined…wah wah waaaaah!! Fuck off George. He really does think he is so smoothe that he can charm everyone. I don’t think this judge will buy it. He disrespected the court, not a good move.

     O’mara….did you really say the victim was shot because of his own doing…fuck you…

     But it certainly put a firecracker up Bernies ass, he came out sparking so much you could smell the singed bum hairs. Was really impressed with his passion to be honest. Trayvon is the one who had the right to self defense. He even said yeah he punched him, haha not sure if that was suppose to come out but if their argument is that Trayvon was defending himself against this guy pursuing him then it can’t hurt really, anyone would have punched the creep in the nose.

     I would say that after todays performance, it is obvious which side has true belief in their case.

     • Jo,

       I like you!! I like your passion. O’mara is becoming a joke and good for him. He has quickly learned the lesson my mama always said ” All money is not good money” in other words, O’mara may get his money for defending Zimmerman, but what good will it do his reputation. I really don’t see anyone knocking his door down to defend them in the future. Next time he might would want to do a background check on his client or at least talk to him face to face before taking the case. There is a reason Garagos tip toed all around when he was asked would he have ever taken the case. O’mara is in over his head due to the Zimmermans constant and blatant disrespect for the law, not to mention that Taaffe character running around recreating events and doing interviews. Where are all the African American children he mentored and walked to school…bwahaaaaha, those Zimmermans crack me up, especially that dad. I bet he is giving O’mara fits with his rants about Jr.

355. So basically our theory as it stands now is GZ chased down a high school football player in the dark? Ok….

     • Yup — a grown man exited his vehicle and chased down an unarmed teen running away from him before getting into a scuffle and fatally shooting the “kid.”

       • Do you happen to have a link to the bond hearing today?

     • Yup. It’s better than the one O’Mara tried to pimp in court today.

       If you are still quoting a witness that recanted long ago as proof, I’d say that’s a weak case. He fails to address why his “star witness” has gone from wrestling, to MMA blows, to holding him down, and the fact that the witness describes a whole big scene, but then says he only saw 10s.

       GZ created a situation in his mind after profiling someone he did not know, and did not witness committing any crime, then escalated the situation, which incited fear into TM, then shot him due to his irrational fear of someone he didn’t know.

       Too many inconsistencies in GZ’s story that he will have to answer for, and will not be able to use the excuse, “I don’t know. I don’t remember.”

     • Dee Dee heard GZ confront TM!
       When TM asked “what are you following me for?” He did not ask that question of someone who was far away and maintaining his distance!
       If he asked it of GZ while GZ was walking away, he certainly had a right to ask it, since GZ should not even have been in close enough proximity to even make the question reasonable.

       But, finally, when GZ answers “What are you doing here?” THAT is a challenge! A challenge is a confrontation! So, since no physical contact had been made at that point. GZ had confronted TM!

       There’s not even the most remote chance that TM was somehow making up a story for Dee Dee’s ears, about GZ following him.

       TM knew that he was being followed by GZ, even before GZ got out of his truck. Shortly after GZ get’s out of his truck, we find him close to TM and being asked a question. In answer to that question GZ issues a confrontational challenge! Something he knows he had no legal right to do. Yet, he chooses to do something he has no right to do, instead of simply identifying himself.

       GZ had two choices when he was ask why he was following.
       1. He could illegally issue a challenge, which would be confrontational.
       or
       2. He could identify himself, which would have been conversational.

       GZ chose to be confrontational!

       • “GZ had two choices when he was ask why he was following.
         1. He could illegally issue a challenge, which would be confrontational.
         or
         2. He could identify himself, which would have been conversational.

         GZ chose to be confrontational!”

         EXACTLY! He claims he was too scared to talk to him, but he *did* talk to him! If you are scared, you do not stop and talk to someone then take your sight off them. Furthermore, the witnesses say both voices were loud, which does not fit with his story. Typically, someone who was scared, would have just kept walking away to the car. Also, TM closes a gap without GZ noticing. Nope, don’t buy it at all. When someone you think is a criminal is getting closer, you don’t just let it happen.

         GZ was the aggressor, and never made an attempt at any point to deescalate the situation.

       • @Lonnie –

         Zimmerman’s actions were all the worse given his own history of assault/battery of an ATF officer during an underaged drinking bust in which Zimmerman claimed he only cursed and assaulted the ATF officer because, as he claimed to his family, the ATF officer didn’t identify himself.

     • GZ was able to keep up with him pretty much with his vehicle as GZ said that when he stopped his vehicle at the south end of the property that TM was still in his headlights and disappeared around the corner and then came back out and circled his vehicle only to disappear for a third time. The first being when GZ said he lost sight of him at the Clubhouse.
       GZ did most of his chase with a vehicle, I never did buy the going in the same direction as TM did to get the address from the next street when he could of gotten the address off of the front of the homes closest to his vehicle. I also never bought the story about him not knowing the names of the three streets in the neighborhood despite being “Neighborhood Watch Captain”.
       They needed professional uniformed security and more patrols by the Police Department not GZ.

       • definately pooh. Actually they needed professional security and patrols to protect the residents from George Zimmerman, seems he was more dangerous than any of the thieves (and dogs) he saw as a threat to the community.

       • Those people in the neighborhood had crime but it was not infested with crime according with Spd reports. There was something awfully sinister going on between Taaffe, Zimmerman and Zimmerman’s wife.

356. I am just listening to the Serino/Singlton interview where they listen to the police tape. Apparently George is in front of the clubhouse for most of the call and magically transports to the cut off just as Trayvon runs….how trayvon walked south of the T and returned out of the darkness to circle his truck before he started running and gz exited the car is just another of those mysteries that only makes sense to a blind zim supporter…..

     but the reason i am posting is this, did anyone notice how at the end of the call zimmerman asks if they have his number, they say yes and repeat it back to him, and George says “yeah, YOU GOT IT”. Sound familiar?

     • @jo:

       That jumped out at me, too!

       Another Zimmerman Lie: http://t.co/KUHxhCew via @youtube via @LLMPapa #Trayvon "Yeah, you got it"

       — princss6 (@princss6) June 25, 2012

       • hi princss6, i didn’t realise you had already picked it up sorry, i’m going to go check out some more of your videos, cheers!!

       • Hi jo:

         Just confirming what you picked up…yes check out all of LLMPapa’s video…he posted a doozie yesterday.

     • @Jo, wow! I never put two and two together until you mentioned it. Zimmerman said Trayvon spoke those words right after the fatal shot.

       • Could George have an identity problem? He can’t distinguish between himself and others. It is his habit of saying, “You got it.” He obviously put these words in Trayvon’s mouth, since Trayvon can’t speak for himself. This is a projection of George’s own personality into that of another.
         I will say that it’s hard to keep an open mind in this case. The first strong data one gets tends to stick. This is a reminder that we have been snowed by George’s smoke and mirrors. It’s only when we flush out almost everything George has said that we will be able to get a more accurate picture of what happened.

       • hi there Caroline, a little strange isn’t it, funny how a 17 year old used the exact same expression that his 28 year old killer used 1 minute earlier…Like princss6 said, just another one of his lies. I must admit i was looking forward to seeing the evidence in this case to try and understand some of what happened that night, but it is even more confusing now because everything GZ says is either a lie, a faulty memory, a manipulation or a contradiction . He talks as though he is so sure of himself and his recollection is usually detailed, but when questioned about contraditions he just says “don’t remember” or changes the topic or just goes quiet. Where is Bill and Ted or Marty McFly when you need them?

     • Nice catch.

     • Jo, I think that SIngleton tape was the first recorded interrogation. When I listened again to the audio I noticed when she was asking Zimmerman his side of the story he said Trayvon said, “You got it, you got it” Within a few minutes she changed the subject back and said, “So he said, “You got me” ? to which Zimmerman agreed and then repeated what she said, “You got me” This isn’t what he initially said but what SIngleton said and he confirmed Trayvon as saying that. I think she was trying to trip him up in the interrogation. This was just one inconsistency of several I heard on the audio tape. I get the impression GZ claims Trayvon said “You got it” was because he reached his gun first and fired it.. Trayvon had now surrendered and GZ was trying to make it look like it was not the deadly shot that struck Trayvon. After saying that, he goes on about how he tried to restrain Trayvon down on the ground because he was still talking.

       • The first part of the GZ story is getting debunked. Trayvon probably came onto the property way before GZ’s call. Is this man telling us the wrong place of his call because he had been driving and walking around spying on Trayvon for several minutes and he simply got confused? In other words, the story didn’t start with his call to police. He is picking it up in the middle and lost his place. Actually Trayvon may have been deep under the mailbox cover for a while waiting out the rain. He would have been hard to see or make out very well. GZ could have been on TTL at the start of the call. He seems to be spouting out a laundry list of vague items from previous calls. The intent is to impress the dispatcher to send an officer to arrest Trayvon. He can’t describe Trayvon’s tan pants because Trayvon is in the shadow of the mailbox cover. “He’s here now” means under the mailboxes. “He’s coming to check me out” means Trayvon is walking out from the mailboxes. “He’s circling my car” means Trayvon is curving around and past the parked car. At any rate, the first part of the tale couldn’t have been on RVC or in the clubhouse parking lot.
         The middle. Does GZ’s story fit his “non-emergency” call at any point? Where? And if it does, at which point does it diverge from the point of no return? Because his story after he hangs up is unlikely.
         I’m gonna say that by the place GZ shows Trayvon coming up to the “T” of his own volition and punching him in the nose this and everything following is fictitious. The witnesses get to vote. Partly based on the beginning not being spot on, I doubt his ending.

357. http://www.pbase.com/recbo/image/143490215/original

     Someone said earlier the gun looked broken, could this be why? I keep thinking over and over about those head wounds. They just don’t equal up to sliding and having head pummeled into concrete.

     Also, take a look at a picture that me and another guy on another blog were thinking matches pavement/cement wounds better.

     

358. Does anyone else need a drink after reading comments from Zimmerman supporters?

     I need at least a few!

     • Oh goodness, I need some kerosene poured in a martini glass shaken not stirred and blood pressure pills as a chaser. They are awful. They have gone crazy over the Serino so called leaks. All I ever hear is name calling or worthless talk about non issues. Do you think if we destroyed their headquarters ( conservative treehouse)their minds would be released?

       • Tempting, isn’t it?

         But they’d just see it as one more conspiracy.

         Their minds went on trips year ago and were not tethered to ground. But they’re working hard tweeting everywhere. They long since stopped considering facts, if ever they did.

359. i can’t remember but do they have his emails? If so does that mean they took his computer and had a look at what he googled etc?

     • I think it was only emails/texts sent from Zimmerman’s Blackberry.

       • Zimmerman most likely will be doing some heavy bragging in text message and email. I bet there are quite a few to Frank Taaffe. I can’t wait to see them.

360. I’ve been looking a bit at the neglected clubhouse videos.

     1) neither the front or back door videos seem to show any kind of flashlight activity. Both are clear views of just outside the doors, so anybody walking past them should show up. It is not likely someone would have flashed a torch into some of the windows, without also looking into (or walking past) the doors between the windows.
     The only exception would be if they only looked at the game room around to behind the mailboxes.

     2) the FRONT DOOR layout is strange. As you go in the door, the left side seems to be a solid wall. The right side (left in the video) seems to be a corridor off to the side.
     There are MANY small flashes of light coming from that corridor, as if they were reflections from the room the corridor leads to. These roughly line up with times on Tchoupi’s histogram.
     There are a small number of light flashes on the wall in front of the corridor and on the solid wall. These general last longer and are much brighter, as if they were direct lights not reflections.
     These include distinctly BLUE and RED lights at the 34 mark (officer T.Smith?) and 37.12 mark (emergency vehicle?)

     (20.49 and 21.52 are examples of the 2 different types of flash).

     This video seems to be about 4 secs behind the others.

361. A third round of discovery was submitted to the defense on June 29.

     • Alright, how long will it take the clown known as O’mara to look over this so that we the public who are actually following the case can take a look as well? I am ready, I have spent long days and nights reading over and over the evidence dumps. I am hunted by the video of the pool area, it made me a nervous wreck, especially seeing Zimmerman’s reflection in the window, if I were an recovering alcoholic I would have fallen off the wagon by now. I pray that this child gets the justice he deserves.

362. I never know if I am posting to the correct thread. But in any event, here is a link you all may find interesting:

     http://zimmermanscall.blogspot.ca/

363. This is a video of Zimmerman during his reenactment using his right hand to draw his gun from a left handed holster backwards. Take a peek!!

     • I had made a post above about this and gave up on the theory because the holster was described as a “In the waistband” type but now I’m thing that since it was a soft holster it would make it a two handed thing to put it back in and your pants would need to be bought a little large to allow for the gun.
       I’ll bet he was shooting left handed at the shooting range.

       • Yep, I am a lefty, I can’t do anything without the assistance of my left to keep me coordinated. I am a true lefty. He seems like a true lefty, if so then he definitely would have issues shooting right handed especially so precise and straight as he did. Things just feel different in my right hand especially when I try to write( which I cant do at all with my right, my elementary school teacher tried to cure me of this left handed curse..lol, she failed)

364. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/26/encounters-with-pit-bull-reportedly-led-zimmerman-wife-to-get-guns/

     Here we learn that GZ routinely violates the NW rules, if he’s trying to use walking his dog as a cover for patrolling. Since as NW he’s not supposed to be patrolling. Thus, by carrying a weapon, he’s in no condition to function as a NW, but is instead a vigilante, if he’s looking for suspects.

     My guess is the SPD knew that GZ had and often carried a weapon. So, did they advise him more strictly about the NW rules? I don’t think they took enough pains to impress him not to carry in the course of NW duties. Or, maybe they did, which would explain why he’s become so proficient about coming up with alternatives to NW duties, which make his carrying happenstance.

     Of course, if he had been sufficiently impressed with NW rules, and had it made clear that the SPD could not stand behind his carrying, he’d probably have left his gun in the car.

     Okay, it’s all “back and fourth” with GZ and his gun, his right to carry, and “not on patrol”, “not NW at the time”. Makes one think that he always knows he has his gun, because he’s always got an excuse at the ready, to make believe he was doing something else, and could therefore easily forget about having a firearm with him. He does this so many times in the past, that I don’t think it will fly with a jury, that he didn’t know he was armed on that terrible night.

     He’s always armed and he always has an “alternative” activity engaged! That is damning!

     • Yeah, you’re right Lonnie. That time he saw the (later caught) burglar at Taaffe’s place he was just taking his dog for a walk, wasn’t he? (Of course then he MUST carry in case his dog attracts the dangerous pit-bull (which seems to have disappeared the day he got his CCW permit). <<< oh I'm not saying "actually disappeared" I mean ceased to be an issue, never spoken of again.

       • Yep, poor Georgie always being picked on even by dogs. One neighborhood dog caused him and his wife to go and buy guns??I noticed the name of the dog and that it was a pit bull, it sounds to me they are trying to say the dog belongs to an African American in the neighborhood. It is also funny how he was terrorized so many times then decided to call Animal control, it looks to me he called so he would have documented proof that he called animal control. Why did this vicious dog not bite? I kept saying that this man had no business majoring in criminal justice. I can bet the wheels in his head were spinning out of control in those classes. Those classes helped him set this kid up to be killed. I think he bought the gun to kill due to hate. It is funny how him and his wife were always the witness when the thief got away. Shellie Zimmerman happened to see a black guy running through the back yard. Zimmerman showing up at doors like he was the grand pumba or the police, to give his contact info. This man is a straight up psycho.

365. In the video where Zim tells what happened at the scene, notice he looks at the tree then distances himself from the tree. I think they might find his DNA on that tree cause that’s what he hit his head on.

     • Interesting. Thank you for checking out the blog and commenting. Was DNA found on the tree or is that TBA?

       • I am sure they never looked. And it’s a bit late after 5 or 6 months.

         I’d still like them to check the keys and big flashlight for blood . Probably too late for the flashlight, that got messed up with Serino seeing if it would turn on or not (and yes it did for him, only GZ had trouble getting it to work).

366. No ,no DNA on the tree. What I’m saying is that a head pounding on the cement never took place. when Zimmerman and Trayvon had words I believe Trayvon pushed Zimmerman causing him to fall back into that tree and its low hanging branches causing him to have those minor injuries to his scalp. He lost footing and grabbed Trayvon OR had grabbed Tray and was still holding on and Trayvon is swinging (DeeDee statement she heard GET OFF ME GET OFF ME!) anyway it is my belief Zimmerman had hold of him Trayvon screaming help then gunshot. No blood evidence on sidewalk where supposed head banging occurred. Yes it was raining but that would only water down the blood not wash it away. I don’t think it was a typhoon.

     • For me if in the evidence the police took of the scene, if they did not go to the side walk and look for the bloodied pavement, swab it and take a picture then they cant link Martin as the one who assaulted the back of his head. I have already come to the conclusion that Martin never hit Zimmerman and he never pounded his head. If the defense has something different then let them show it and I might change my mind. Martin has been framed from his grave for assaulting this idiot and that is wrong. A good defense attorney had Martin lived would have ate Zimmerman up. I would love to know without a real witness and disappearing dna, how Martin could ever be linked to this fools injuries. Martin family please feel free to sue in civil court, we know for the most part Zimmerman broke ass doesn’t have any money to give, but the State of Florida is another story. The more I see that low down dirty devil, the more furious I get. Zimmerman is a class grade A jerk. Let he remain in jail and prosecution will soon get all the info they need. Zimmerman was not alone that night.Somebody cornered Martin and prosecution knows it.

       • Theresa, I’ve been thinking the same thing. Accusations don’t have much weight with a jury without some kind of proof. If I were on this jury, I’d have to really believe George (if he testifies) to buy that this kid suddenly attacked him. Without sidewalk samplings, George has no proof to offer. There is no proof of a broken nose without xrays either. There’s no proof that Treyvon was responsible for any of George’s injuries.
         I am also convinced that George received help that night. Shellie could have been sitting in the car and received the post-shot call by cell phone. She could have been driving away as the police were driving in. If she was driving, it would explain why no one percieved George as driving while on the non-emergency call. Also, my husband and I each have our own keys for both of our vehicles. George could have kept his key and had it out because of the little flashlight. Shellie could have already been using her own key.Treyvon never mentioned Shellie to Deedee though.
         I’ve long believed Taaffee called George and alerted him to Treyvon’s presence coming through the cut through. Why would Taaffee stop with that? Wouldn’t he want to check on what was happening?
         I don’t trust Jeremy and wife either because I think they saw the whole thing; and John has been thoroughly discredited by “misplacing” the time of the shot. What else is he lying about? He also could have seen everything. His “surprise” when looking out the upstairs window always seemed off to me – kind of false and practised.

     • On the reenactment video he fumbled in telling how he landed on the ground. First he said he was punched at the top of the T entrance and fell, Next he says he stumbled into the entrance before he fell, which BTW was two houses down. Stumbled 40 feet so didn’t go down within seconds of a blow to the face!? Which one was it Gorgie? He also said he was being slammed repeatedly on the concrete walkway, then he alludes to a sign. Notice in the video there are a row of small utility signs several feet off from the sidewalk embedded in the grassy area parallel to the trees. Those cuts and bruises is not proof he was being repeatedly slammed. No one saw him being beaten by Trayvon, only wrestling. But what were they wrestling for? How does one explain that Trayvon had no GZ DNA under his fingernails and on his hands, only on his sleeves. This leaves a big gaping question mark. From beginning to end of this tall tale there are too many inconsistencies and exaggerations. George Zimmerman is fully aware he is dishing out a load of crock and he wants everyone to swallow it.

       The true story is that a young man’s life ended so tragically and needlessly before it even began and it’s appalling that his name has been mocked, slandered and debased all because George Zimmerman has not come clean by admitting he was the instigator in this horrible crime. And shame on Omara for saying Trayvon Martin died because of his own doing. That’s a disgraceful thing to say.

       Meanwhile, RIP Trayvon Martin, you will get justice in the end.

       • Marilyn, Caroline,

         We are thinking a like on this, this is why OJ was set free, you remember that famous line by Johnny Cochran, ” If it don’t fit you must aquitt”. The only thing Zimmerman has managed to give us was injuries to lineup with his fictional story. I ask where is the proof? No one saw anything because it was too dark, they hear arguing which helps prosecution because it shows that Zimmerman had a chance to retreat, it shows he wasnt sucker punched he actually was in an argument and could have went on about his business. If Zimmerman was really hurt and it really went down the way he said it did then he would have been all too happy to seek emergency attention from the local ER. He killed someone but wanted to go back to work the next day but we were lead to believe he was crying inconsolable. I may have been born at night but thankfully it wasn’t last night. My bulb shines bright and I can see this for what it is. The truth never wavers, it stays the same always. He has about 5 different stories about what happened and non of them fit. where is the bloody pavement, is it marked in the first evidence dump released, NO!! this is evidence, why would it not be collected? where are the bruising, swelling of Martin’s hands? dont forget GZ said he punched him around 25 times, GZ face doesn’t even add up, he also said his head was pummeled several times, the head doesn’t even add up. You will not catch me saying that Martin had a right to hit him, he didn’t hit him because he never had a chance. I believe Taaffe was there and that is why he is on the witness list. Where is he anyway? I bet he is on his phone record. Looking at the pool area and watching Zimmerman walking around out there. There is no way that he wasn’t looking for someone. Also this is important because he claimed he was not NWing that night that he was headed to Target.

367. The confessed murderer’s medical report:

     Click to access george_zimmerman_medical_report.pdf

     • Interesting that Zimmerman admitted aggression as a side effect of Vyvanse. Considering Trayvon’s murder, you can add Adderall to Zimmerman’s list of medicines to avoid.

       • Adderall is a powerful drug, but I got a feeling he abused this drug which os a big no no!! Adderall is a last ditch drug used on Adhd due to unstabalized anger and aggression but it is highly addictive and has to be monitired. It is recommended not to be taken over a year. Zimmerman, is a con artist, a liar and manipulator. Over the years he has been able to perfect this craft. How do you return to work a day later after killing someone. This man is a psycho. I know a nurse who killed her abusive husband and she told me the guilt almost drove her crazy. You cant get this way over neighborhood burglary’s.

368. List of people who wish they had never heard of or met George Zimmerman.

     10. Shellie Zimmerman
     9. Robert Zimmerman Sr
     8. Bill Lee
     7. Frank Taaffe
     6. John, witness #6
     5. Norm Wolfinger
     4. The Resident’s Association
     3. Neighbourhood Watch Movement
     2.Chris Serino
     1. Trayvon Martin

     • Good list but I think Taaffe eats this stuff up (though he’s been relatively mute as of late).

       • NLME,
         me thinks Taaffe got silent around the time he found himself to be a witness for the prosecution, and when he realized prosecution wasn’t dumb. I think Taaffe’s quest to make money off of Zimmerman made him run his mouth and he never thought it through. He probably thought he was in the clear and as long as he played Zimmerman’s cheerleader, Zim would keep his mouth shut. This is why it is important to keep Zim in jail. His punk arse is gonna start squalling like a pig after realizing he has gotta stay for a prolonged time. I don’t think he will have to stay though, he will most likely get out again, it is not fair but I just don’t see them keeping him. For some reason people feel sorry for him. I guess it is the way he can make himself look so small and sound like a wimpy nerd, with a mono toned voice. Ugh he makes me sick, no doubt Omara has told him to look and sound as pitiful as possible. It just kills me how Zim thought he was gonna take the judge to the back room and fill his head up with nonsense about being scared to death all the time. I bet Z senior told them to ask for that.

       • Eats it up then washes it down with a huge glass of GZ kool-aid. 😉 I also get the vibe his father and him are alike, and is one of those parents that never thinks their kid does a damn thing wrong. I can hear the wife now, though. “Thanks for throwing me under the bus, hun! You’re so cute when you get me arrested for perjury!” I can’t quite tell if she is just like her husband or just has low self-esteem.

       • I guess I shouldn’t blame GZ for his wife’s choice to lie. She’s the idiot for going along with it. No one to blame except for herself.

       • NLME, I think the Taaffe scenario has not been fully played out yet and he will rue the day he met Z and decided to support him.

         The list is a little silly but was made after thinking about how many people have been damaged just by knowing GZ.

       • I don’t think much has been seen/heard from him since release of video reenactment, audio, and written statements from GZ. Probably can’t believe just how bad GZ’s story telling is compared to the non 911 call! LOL!

     • 11. Tracy and Sabrina ( Martins Parents)
       12. Big Boi the dog ( I think he is being framed and probably has been put to sleep, or he is most likely fictitious)
       13. Me, you, and everybody else on this blog
       14. The neighbors
       15. The ex fiance
       16. The girl who he threw across the room
       17. ALL of his former co workers, the human resource dept one of his jobs
       18. All African American males is the surrounding Sanford area and especially in the neighborhood or close to it…

       I just added because I wanted to help you out some more and I agree!!

369. Been trolling the Orlando Sentinal and see it’s going to be 1 million dollars bail!
     Good for Judge Lester!
     This is the only thing the judge could do. Anything less and George would have drained the defense fund to pay the entire bail in order to avoid any more potential penalties.
     George now has to put up $100,000 from the fund (that is the correct amount, isn’t it?) and risk losing that too, if he messes up again.

     • Here’s the judge’s order:

       Click to access SKMBT_363-V12070510360.pdf

       Highlights include – Can’t leave the county without permission. Must check in every 48 hours. Must pay for and wear a monitor. No going to the airport, no bank account, no applying for a passport, no alcohol, no bothering Treyvon’s family, and no more criminal behavior! Curfew is 6-6 each day.

       Evidently he had been hiding out outside the country, Judge thinks he was planning to flee and was thwarted by the monitor.Judge notes that none of George’s family now live in Seminole county so they no longer have any credibility with the court. Plus he royally chastised the family for helping hide the funds. Fun reading, I recommend it heartily.

       • Added to the Update section — thank you.

         Though I definitely heard/read a 2nd bail was going to be granted, I don’t get it but Judge Lester’s order is definitely damning. This goes back to my point that even if the 2nd bail was granted, Zimmerman wouldn’t/shouldn’t be sleeping well until his trial.

       • I’ve just read Judge Lester’s order for a second time — VERY interesting document! Is it deserving of it’s own blog posting? If not, I’ll note some points of interest in the comment section such as…

         Judge Lester presumably meant to say flouted not flaunted per the Miami Herald and Frances Robles…

         My editor, a wordsmith, notes that judge meant to say #Zimmerman "flouted" the system, not "flaunted." #trayvon

         — Frances Robles (@FrancesRobles) July 5, 2012

         • The original version of the article in the Orlando Sentinel quotes him as saying “flaunted”, and the author, Rene Stutzman, was kind enough to answer my email and say that that’s what is written in the order, but now the article quotes him as having said “flauted”, and I’ve got another email into Ms. Stutzman asking which version is actually a quote.

           unitron

       • Absolutely wonderful, it was almost like a page off of this blog, seeing how all of us were saying the same thing. Judge Lester evidently took his time to think and think well he did. He was on the spot with that family. He really felt like they made a mockery of the court simply because they thought they had the power to do so. He also made sure to note his and his family’s knowledge of the law( relieved). I think he was highly pissed at the fact that they thought they had him whipped or in their corner by asking to speak to him in private, who does that? Judge Lester would have taken too much ridicule for that, but besides that Zim was told he was gonna have to explain himself, as well as the judge figure you lied out in the open then explain yourself out in the open. He let them know that this time, you won’t get away with blowing smoke up peoples bum, he will be held accountable for his actions and he will explain on national television as to why he killed an unarmed teenager who was not offending him in any manner. It is about time, it has came too late but at the same time at least it is coming. A friend tweeted a picture of him laughing, smiling, and rubbing his head in court with O’mara rubbing his shoulder, this was after he learned he would make bail again. It is impossible to feel sorry for him. O’mara needs to keep his hands to himself he is getting creepy. They are prematurely throwing the victory sign in the air, but I think Trayvon Martin has some talking to do from his grave.

         • I think that pic is from before the bond hearing started. It was a weird moment.

       • @NLME

         Could you edit the post about the 2nd bond hearing to include the ruling plus a breakdown/POI in Judge KL’s written doc?

         Just an idea if you didn’t want to form an entirely new blog posting on it.

         • Good call…

       • Well, well…looks like they’re really gonna have to ‘dig deeper’ to help GZ out now. They’re gonna have to come up with extra cash to pay for security detail, decoy cars, and a fortress to house the Zimmerlies! We all know how paranoid they are…who I’m just cracking up thinking about the antics they will go through! He won’t be able to leave the house without being recognized. But then again, he has changed his appearance to look more ‘ethnic’…so he just may blend right in!

       • Marilyn
         “Fun reading, I recommend it heartily.”

         100% agree!

     • The typical cost for a surety bond is 10%. That means it will COST GZ $100,000 if he wants to post the bond.

     • If he bails out the $100,000 is non-refundable because it is a 10% premium to the bail bondsman on his actual bail amount of $1,000,000!
       Good Job Judge!

370. I am not happy with the new bond but I prepared myself for ir because I knew it would be granted, I bet Omara is upset that he is gonna have to give up some of his money for this new bail. I was very happy to see where he said that Zimmerman had a lot of background of the law, this made me really happy. I felt for the first time that someone actually realized what type of family we are dealing with, it is almost like dealing with Jr and his clan from the show Dallas. He had no remorse and still doesn’t. I almost threw up when I saw him smile at the hearing. He thinks he is on a reality tv show, sitting up there like he is the grand pumba, I can’t stand him. He thinks he has it made. I wonder why it is so important to everyone that an accused murderer is treated so delicately. I really doubt if anyone is gonna mess with him, he brought this on himself and people are acting like he was framed. This is why he is like this, too many people taking up for him all the time. He can go live with Taaffe or John until the trial, they get along well. If not then he can go live with his sister or parents. I believe that is what people out on bond usually do. He is no exception. His parents are retired so there was no interruption of funds, they all ran into hiding to live like movie stars. Gz was probably on his way to getting fired from this job anyway. I could care less how they live, they have been exposed as being liars,cowards, hypocrites, etc. The very things they hate others for is now obvious about their goody two shoeness.

     • “I was very happy to see where he (Judge Lester) said that Zimmerman had a lot of background of the law, this made me really happy. I felt for the first time that someone actually realized what type of family we are dealing with.”

       100% Agreed

       • Thanks, NLME

     • I was also very pleased that the Judge acknowledged that Zimmerman had studied law.

       I especially liked that Judge Lester mentioned that the community may not like Zimmerman’s ability to be free on bond, but that all demonstrations have been non-violent and peaceful.

       I take this to mean the coddling and special treatment of the Zimmerman’s O’Mara seems to imply is necessary is unfounded and even it were reasonable, Judge Lester is NOT going to rule based on public opinion.

       All around, time for the Zimmerman’s to man up, pay up or shut up!

371. Thanks Marilyn for the link.

     I love this… “but for the requirement that he be placed on electronic monitoring, the Defendant and his wife would have fled the United States with at least $130,000 of other peoples money”

     So the judge believes George and Shellie would have been gone thanks to the donations to fund his legal defense. He saw the cash roll in, and when there was enough he was going to leave using his undisclosed passport and his “fans” money….gee wonder how stupid they are feeling right about now. The only reason he didn’t was because he was being electronically monitored, that is the only reason he isn’t in Cabo, that is the only reason he handed the money in. What a prick.

     • Aren’t you guys feeling sorry for poor George? He has played all his aces. Used all his lifelines. Now people are coming out of the woodwork against him. Over the money he blew out his membership in the good old boys’ club.
       I might even think he would be suicidal if he wasn’t so busy surviving. But alas, a jury trial can go either way. There’s always hope. It worked for George in the past. But that pesky Angela Corey said, “We don’t take these things lightly.” The judge can’t hardly stand to see him. Nothing to look forward to but prison.

372. I am willing to bet that the State will charge GZ with criminal contempt, with regards to his lying at 1st bond hearing, as suggested by Judge Lester.

     Also…anyone think this might be GZ’s sister Grace who was involved in the money deception to the court ? If that is her she sure does have some explaining to do as a member of the bar association having participated in GZ’s scheme to defraud the court.

     http://www.gzimmermanlaw.com/attorney-profile/

     • http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2012/06/poor-george-wants-a-bond/

       This a blog from an attorney, he breaks down the reason why Zimmerman still has control of the money in the paypal account and why. He also states why Omara is begging for more moolah!!! It is interesting !!

     • I don’t think that’s Zimmerman’s sister unless she managed to escape the Zimmerman household for CA when she was in her youth. I could be wrong.

373. Thank you for doing what many of us desire to do but simply cannot. I appreciate that you are fair and balanced.

374. I still wonder about what Chad Green has to say about that night. Could he possibly be W4, W7, or W10? I would think he’d be on the witness list, but he’s not. IIRC, those three unidentified/unknown witnesses were interviewed that night by SPD. I don’t think that would make Chad one of them. Did he receive any texts or calls from TM after he left? I suppose no use in asking questions that I know have no known answers to the public, yet.

     I apologize for babbling; I blame the shots I drank. The delicious, delicious shots.

     • I would think Chad has something to say. I think there is more to come from individuals near Brandy’s house as well.

       • @nlme

         I agree. Especially if the confrontation moved from South to North when GZ surprised Trayvon after taking shortcuts placing him near Brandy’s home.

375. Well, the new bail has cost Zimmerman 100k, gone! Legal fees will be mounting for 11 more months and donations are coming in slowly.

     Meanwhile there are many people out there who still think, the media reports, that Trayvon’s hands were injured and covered with blood, are true.
     So they’ve based their ideas on that misinfo. After all, lots of people do not believe that the media would get a story so wrong. They will now learn that they’ve been mislead and made to sound stupid, because they listened to and trusted the media would tell them the truth.

     I’ve noticed that O’Mara is being very careful about what he says, in his efforts to keep the donations coming in. It sounds to me like he’s leaving himself lots of “wiggle room”, in crafting statements about GZ’s possible innocence.

     • They wouldn’t have to believe that if they read the evidence for themselves. Did anyone pay attention to pg 136 of the evidence, where it poc( Serino)stated to ecc that Martin was shot then fell to the ground?

       

       • I wonder where that story originated for it to end up in the report. It’s super intriguing since George Zimmerman has said that after he shot Trayvon Martin in the chest, that Trayvon Martin sat up.

         Wonder what this all means.

       • common sense,
         I would love to know too, we have all believed that Martin was standing, how else did he shoot him in the chest and perfect shot. I believe he pulled that gun out after chasing and finding Martin, then Martin said ” what are you following me for” Z said ” what are you doing here” Martin gets pushed, says ” get off get off” headphones fall( friend can’t hear anything else), Martin tries to run or walk away again, Z is steadily running his mouth and Martin is probably like go on leave me alone. Perhaps this is when the witnesses hear arguing? Zim right on him the whole time, makes it down to where the body is found Martin turns around sees gun, starts to scream in sheer fright. zimmerman shoots because he wont shut up and he is angry. I feel like the witnesses did not see wrestling they saw Z on top patting Martin down after he hit the ground. If two men were on the ground and you had once heard screaming you will assume they were fighting/ wrestling but it was dark and no one could see this is why Dave had to retract, I think Dave told the police what Zimmerman told him and that is that the kid was breaking into houses, right then Dave decides to lie, but the damage is already done. Dave is holding back the truth, he just takes back the mma style fighting because he can’t say I lied for Zimmerman because I thought he was telling the truth and protecting our neighborhood. I think the kid never had a chance to hit Zimmerman. It was pushing and shoving and no fighting. Trayvon Martin had none of Zimmermans Dna on his hand and Omara just had an ambulance emt testify that Zimmerman was profusely bleeding( I dont know how because the report didn’t say that but oh well)Martin couldnt have washed his hands. Another thing Zimmerman had a close shaved head so in order for Martin to slam his head he would have to grip each side, the blood was dripping, there is no way Martin escaped getting any of Zimmermans dna on him. His reenactment video showed he was not close to death, he controlled every aspect of that video. He and his daddy made all of that crap up. How the heck does it feel Zimmerman to have all these people hate a dead kid because you painted him a thug, and you wanted so badly to use him as a way to get on to the police force after your graduation. How can you be so blatantly racist when you are a biracial product of a latino, white, and african heritage? the same people you cater to are the ones that would have hung you and you great grandfather years ago and perhaps now. White supremist, kkk, and Zimmermans is what you need to watch out for daily.

         P.s. as far as any wet and grass, I really couldnt see that in the evidence photos, his hands were clean and nails were cut down, he was a former bouncer and threw a girl across the room, he could fight 150 lbs Martin off of his 204 lb frame.

       • @Riisey(Theresa) [below] no reply button]

         Note that even if GZ wasn’t bleeding, touching his head is going to leave dna, aka dead skin cells on your hands. Skin cells are flaking off the body all the time. When they check hands for trace, they swab them all over, one swab for each hand. Then they take each swab and process it for dna.
         If your hands have made contact with another person, their skin cells fall off and stick to your skin. Think of it as sticking your hands into jar filled with talcum powder. You’re just not going to pull them away without a residue. Of course, it won’t be as dense or visible as talcum, but the effect is the same. The cells will be all over your hands and will be picked up by the process of swabbing, then identified by dna processes.

         Then the blood is another matter. The paramedics say they cleaned blood from GZ’s hands and arms. Apparently, since none of it transferred to TM during or after the claimed fight, it wasn’t there until after they’d separated.

         Defense is going to have quite some trouble, convincing a jury of any make up, that Trayvon could have somehow put GZ in fear of his life, without ever touching him with his hands. Which is why I’m guessing they’re going to bring back a guilty on 1st degree! A racist or two on the jury, will merely result in a hung jury, if that. Because you’d have to be openly racist to oppose that kind of evidence.

       • “Shot and fell to the ground” may of come from Mary and Selma

         MC: I can tell you there was no fighting going on when the gun went off because we were both in the kitchen making coffee with the window open and there was no fighting. The fight that happened was way down the sidewalk because the person on the very end of this block is the one who called the police originally because that’s where the fight broke out. Now the kid got shot way down here, you know, five doors down.
         SM: We hear just one shot, we didn’t hear two.
         MC: We only heard the one shot so I’m assuming the kid was already shot once and was crying and trying to get home but I know they were not physically fighting when the gun went off and (we heard the shot and the kid hit the ground).

         • I hadn’t read the text of her statement. I should start reading all witness statements I think.

           What if Trayvon ran north from his house, turned west on the T, saw headlights (Zimmerman’s Ridgeline chime was apparently replicated by Milo’s colleague leaving his lights on in park), turned back around towards the T, Zimmerman was in pursuit, they met at the T, and wrestled/pushed each other near the shooting scene towards Brandy Green’s house?

           This biggest things this solves…

           Why did it take Zimmerman so long to get back to the T after his call ended?

           Well, Zimmerman’s path was actually south down Twin Trees, the calls ends, north on the path in pursuit of Trayvon, and west on the T.

           How did Zimmerman get attacked from behind but end up South of the T?

           Well, he was actually attacked North/West of the T and the two wrestled to the crime scene.

       • Lonnie, the only DNA found on Trayvon was on his sleeves which to me would indicate when GZ turned him over face down he grabbed his arms and placed Trayvon’s hands under his body without touching them.

       • @Riisey and Lonnie –

         Bingo!

         “Apparently, since none of it transferred to TM during or after the claimed fight, it wasn’t there until after they’d separated.”

         That’s the point. If the nose was broken, blood (or other dna) should’ve been on Trayvon Martin’s hands and under Trayvon Martin’s fingernails (which tested NEGATIVE) if Zimmerman’s lie that Trayvon Martin had his hand over his nose and mouth enough to make the *scratch* on Zimmerman’s nose.

         If Zimmerman fell immediately to the ground just before his supposed head-banging event, Trayvon Martin would have blood from Zimmerman’s head on his hands and under his nails as he grabbed on the bloodied head to bang it.

         Zimmerman’s story is a massive lie thought up on the fly!

         I can’t wait to see what’s on the M&I vids.

         I wonder if:

         (1) Zimmerman’s nose already has a scratch as he visited the ATM.
         (2) Zimmerman turned his head at the ATM and got his scalp scabs recorded in the bank vid.
         (3) Zimmerman is shown on the ATM vid as having his light, light grey shirt fully exposed like it was on the police surveillance vids which would make one wonder why he zipped up his “free country” jacket for the cellphone pic the SPD took. (Also notice that the pattern of his jacket even if zipped would look like a white wife-beater tee-shirt in the dark as the light pattern would be the ONLY color to pop in the darkness).
         (4) Zimmerman had a friend in the passenger seat wearing a white tee.
         (5) Zimmerman was sipping while driving/seen taking a squig while punching in ATM commands.
         (6) Zimmerman had his gun out and ready on his passenger seat (not sure if ATM cams capture that much, though)
         (7) Zimmerman’s pupils (if he was using an ATM) — dilated/undilated?
         (8) Zimmerman was on the bank property harassing other teens, perhaps in the parking lot — maybe the 3 teens that came into the 7-11 after Trayvon Martin left (did they whip his arse?)
         (9) Trayvon Martin was on the scene chatting with some friends while not breaking any laws.
         (10) Blood was observed on Zimmerman’s headrest while he was punching in his pin at the ATM.

       • @Jim –

         I totally missed that. Is there a link to testimony that Trayvon was already shot when he ran south? That fks up everything I previously thought if so. I don’t think that withstands forensics, though. If MC said that, she may have been confused or poorly relaying what she say/interpreting what her roommate saw.

       • @Caroline –

         “Lonnie, the only DNA found on Trayvon was on his sleeves which to me would indicate when GZ turned him over face down he grabbed his arms and placed Trayvon’s hands under his body without touching them.”

         And thus the need for the inexplicable “enhancement” to Zimmerman’s story that he jumped on Trayvon Martin’s body and spread his murdered victim’s hands spread eagle to cast doubt.

         Have been wondering if Zimmerman misremembered his “I asked them to help me detain him and don’t call 9-1-1” story in order to put another person at the crime scene to further obfuscate things hoping to further taint evidence and plant doubt.

         Depending on what Jon captured on his cell phone pic, Zimmerman may have been attempting to create some other “fall guy” in his first moments after his murder of the child. Seems Jon didn’t fall for it since he didn’t want to make other people’s problems his own.

       • @CSFC

         I’m interested to see what’s on the M&I vid, too. I think it’s most likely going to be related to the timeline. It would be interesting to see if he did have someone with him, if it is him captured on the vid. I don’t think it’s going to show him having injuries prior to his non-emergency call. I do think he sustained them after the call, but not at the hands of TM. I do think TM swung on him at some point, but can’t blame the kid for that.

         What are your thoughts on his comment in the reenactment about having blood in his eyes? I’m still trying to figure that comment out.

         • “I don’t think it’s going to show him having injuries prior to his non-emergency call. I do think he sustained them after the call.”

           Agree

       • @CSFC

         No, just one shot, I believe Mary and Selma got that from talking to other witnesses that thought they may of heard two shots but they only heard one.

         The point I was trying to make was both Mary and Selma said they heard the Kid hit the ground after the shot. Now to me, if they could really hear that, Trayvon would have to be standing and would have to fall on his back to make a thump sound that they could hear. If Trayvon was sitting on top of GZ or even standing and fell forward I don’t believe the thump would be loud enough. Even GZ said that night Trayvon fell on his back. I’m sure he will change that but he did say it.

         As far as the DNA, They did find GZ’s DNA on the front of Trayvon’s T-shirt under his hoodie but they did not say where, they just said in front. I would like to know how far up. I think Trayvon was shot standing up, then he fell dead on his back.(Thump) and then GZ almost immediately started to frisk Trayvon for a weapon (reason) for killing the poor kid.(hands up under hoodie) Then with Trayvon’s feet (with white tennis shoes) pointing towards Mary and Selma house along comes Selma just in time to see GZ flip Trayvon over, but all she saw was Trayvon’s feet move. At this point Selma asked GZ what was going on and that’s when GZ thought he got cought frisking Trayvon. Selma asked three times before GZ said, just call the police. Mary and Selma said GZ acted irritated like he just wanted them to go away. That’s because he didn’t get a chance to finnish his frisk and then he had to come up with a reason for being on top of trayvon so he said he thought Trayvon was still alive and he was holding him down. That don’t cut it with me and I don’t believe it will with a jury if it’s presented right.

         • Jim,

           I agree but was thinking more along the lines of Martin pleading and screaming for his life, GZ, gets all confused and annoyed, he sees perhaps neighbors moving about or lights coming on and he panics or he fears that people will hear Martin screaming, so he shoots him and that ends the screaming, Martin falls forward on the ground hands underneath him( like they found him), Zimmerman gets down to try to find something on the kid because he is playing good cop, and wants so badly to get a job ib law enforcement. He didn’t find anything of course and did not have time to plant anything(thank GOD). He throws his hands up in frustration as the witnesses saw and from there the fable begins. I truly believe that Zimmermans story changed several times and they can say that it was consistent all they want. They can say he didnt have to get the entire scenario correct all they want but he should know exactly what happened, verbatum!! If you killed someone you should know why. Like we have said there is no way for him to sit up and say, be was punching him several times then banged his head over a dozen times and neither have each others Dna on the very two things we use everyday in our lives to eat with, cook with, bathe with. No one can not not use their hands, it is human nature to throw your hands up in defense whrn in a fight. I said before had Martin lived and was up for assault charges a defense attorney would have a field day with Zimmerman. The defense attorneys that are coming to his defense are just that defense attorney’s they are not privy to any more of the facts then we are so they cant say that the States case is weak. Why is it so weak because he showed up with his 2 scratches, and a scratch on his nose, yep a scratch on his nose because his septum was not deviated, if he did not have bandages that night at the police station then why on GODS green earth did he show up with them for the reenactment. I will tell you why, it is because he knew it would look good for him, why on earth would he have worn that damn bandaid on his nose? What can a bandaid do for a broken nose. He wasnt even hurting, he looked nothing like a victim to me. P.s. remember Spd had to turn Martin over to do cpr so he was still chest down. Remember back in April or May when all of us couldn’t figure out how GZ got from under Martin withou flipping him over on his back? Well knowing what we started to think back in late May or early June, it looks like we are right. He shot him standing up and if we figured it out then you know that is the ram in the bush for prosecution. They are NOT dummies. I can see by the reenactment video, the missing dna, the perfect shot to heart (malice) why the 2nd degree murder charge. Over charged they say, charge him only with manslaughter, NOWAY!! he murdered that kid in cold blood. I for some reason think Taaffe could become a person of interest!!

       • @Jim

         Thank you for sharing your thoughts. In addition, in W2’s statement with state investigators, she states after the shot she saw the body on what she believed to be his back. When asked to describe what the person was wearing, she remembered seeing a light color on top. It seems different witnesses saw the body in different positions before the EMT arrived and turned the body over, which is consistent with the idea that GZ frisked and repositioned TM.

       • @quest.

         “What are your thoughts on his comment in the reenactment about having blood in his eyes?”

         Zimmerman: I accidentally shot him in self defense…you see…I couldn’t see because of the blood in my eyes AND I didn’t even think I shot him…I thought I missed.

         What you see is the confessed murderer caught in between two lies. Things were just spewing out this mouth at that point because IF he was on the ground…where would blood come from to get into his eyes?

       • @Jim:

         “As far as the DNA, They did find GZ’s DNA on the front of Trayvon’s T-shirt under his hoodie”

         They found one stain with the confessed murderer’s DNA. The dimensions and placement of that DNA on Trayvon’s shirt is unknown to the public at this point. Based on where that DNA stain is located and the size of it could prove to be very instructive.

       • @Riisey

         “I agree but was thinking more along the lines of Martin pleading and screaming for his life, GZ, gets all confused and annoyed, he sees perhaps neighbors moving about or lights coming on and he panics or he fears that people will hear Martin screaming, so he shoots him and that ends the screamin”

         I have thought about this many times. What could GZ possibly of been thinking when who he thought was a real bad guy was screaming for help and possibly crying for help.I beleive just as you say “confused and in a panic” What I beleive is GZ had a case of Buck fever, those of you that hunt have heard the stories and they are very real. People get killed from it every year.It’s a loss of control, a fear of something getting away, a inability to reason for a short moment in time. This was GZ’s chance to be a hero and he did not want to let it get away. Inability to reason for one second is all it takes. Some people shoud never have a gun.

       • @qetno and nlme

         “I don’t think it’s going to show him having injuries prior to his non-emergency call.”

         I don’t know either, but wishful thinking. Nothing would shut down Zimmerman’s story/lie like already having the same injuries he claims to have sustained in a fight for his life.

         I hope the video from M&I is not a dud.

         The dripping blood in the eyes story doesn’t make much sense because his injuries snapped with Jon’s iphone show the route the blood traveled as Zimmerman was leaned forward. None of it reached the eye area. Any blood put in the eye would have been, once again, something George Zimmerman put on his own face.

       • @Jim –

         When you can, please post the link to where you heard Selma and Mary say they heard the kid hit the ground. Was it in one of the interviews?

         I just re-listened to the interviews over at axiom for both Mary and Selma along with with the 2 popular media interviews they gave early on. But I don’t hear them say the kid hit the ground, although I vaguely remember somebody saying that.

376. Hi guys, If possible please go to you tube and find LLMPapa. On twitter a friend lead me to his page. Please go take a look, I am on autoplay. He has broken down Zimmermans lies in different videos, he has laid the facts out and has him repeating the lies as facts after each fable is told by Zim, please go look. This guy is smart. He is also pissed off like the rest of us. He has disabled commenting, I am sure he did not want the looney tunes to start commenting. I am very proud of the support that intelligent people are giving Martin and his family, you guys present facts as your argument. I have retired from arguing with Zim supporters because I have come to realize that they are not looking for facts, they hate and they exist to hate, their very thoughts are dark and sinister. They don’t want to change, it is inbred in them, they will die with this hate. This blog and one other is the only place you will find me. I tweet as well, I block all crazies…riisey007@twitter

377. @StZimmerman – Yours is perhaps the most convoluted excuse mongering I’ve seen on this board. Zimmerman has no memory issue. He has a truth issue. He lies. He lied to the court, or sat silently while is partner in that scheme, his wife, did the fibbing they had arranged on the phone. He lied to O’Mara. He lied to TM’s parents when he said he didn’t realize TM was a child.
     One must actually have a good memory to lie. One must also be intelligent in order to keep track of the lies. That’s where GZ falls short. He is an idiot who doesn’t realize that intelligent people will easily unwind his lies.
     I did a quick search and could not find a single piece of case law that supports someone having a purgery charge overtured because of a memory issue. By testifying in court withouth bringing that issue up, it’s waived. GZ already swore that he was capable of testifying, as did everyone else involved. Had his memory been an issue, his attorney would have asked for a ruling before putting GZ on the stand and the procedings would have stopped while that question was answered.
     Even GZ himself, and his attorneys, have already indicated there is no memory issue. Only you bring it up, which indicates you are really grasping at straws, scraping the bottom of the barrel to come up with any implausable explanation hoping something sticks.

     http://discussions.orlandosentinel.com/20/orlandosentinel/os-george-zimmerman-sanford-police-lied-20120707/10

     I no longer comment but I loved this comment to a big time zim supporter, he put a stop to this Zim supporters non sense. Sorry but I had to paste it.

     • StZimmerman at 8:36 AM July 8, 2012
       What’s the point of gratuitously bashing George Zimmerman for his documented health problem with memory? Is it to pile on someone with a condition? Like a schoolkid laughing at invalids or those with speech impediments?
       Mark O’Mara will have an expert come into court to explain to you. That expert should reduce your ignorance about the matter, maybe to the point that you will have sympathy and understanding, rather than hostility toward a large class of people who are inflicted with it.
       Then, if you still have issues with ability to carry a firearm in Florida, you can focus on that aspect. Rather than putting a sufferer in jail for the results of something stemming from a medical problem.
       George Zimmerman was not wrong about killing someone who attacked him. He got that right, as we know from the mountain of evidence that is independent from his memory. Naturally, he scrambled some sequences, and forgot the exact nature of his thoughts present at certain tiny increments of the action. But that is not a crime. In fact, it is expected for even the most innocent, willing, and hardworking witnesses to have false memories or lapses.

       Is this man crazy? Is this George’s dad or him? wth!!
       If he is talking about ADHD then there is a problem because I work with an ADHD person and my best friends brother is ADHD, violence is not a given with ADHD. Also he might want to hush because GZ managed to go to college and remember enough to pass exams. I would say also if that is the case then perhaps he should have carried mace instead of a gun. These Zim supporters. Who makes fun of ADHD?

       • Theresa, how I wish I could buy you a drink right now. I’m sure, after all the garbage we’ve read from people like that, we could all use a drink. There is nothing that will squelch these people’s ignorance or hate. They don’t want to look at GZ. It’s easier to point the finger at the dead kid because the dead kid won’t talk back. These people don’t want facts/truth. They want GZ to be innocent because these are the people that don’t like accepting responsibility for their own actions in life. There’s no use in playing into their convoluted logic. Reading their rantings is like falling down the rabbit hole into a warped alternate reality. It’s maddening, and frankly sucks all the sanity out of my brain trying to get on their level. I’m all for differing opinions, don’t get me wrong, but I just can’t touch hate-filled, flat out stupid, non-sensical excrement.

       • okay, show me how his memory prevents Trayvon from getting Zimmerman’s dna on his hands? Oh, I know, GZ forgot that Trayvon never attacked him, right? He forgot that he made this whole attack thing up, to cover up the fact that he shot a helpless… Wait a minute…
         Here’s something else GZ forgot to mention. He’s left handed and has a left handed holster, which he shows in the reenactment, that he’s wearing on his right side. Hmmm… Shouldn’t he have explained that he was having trouble drawing the gun? I mean, wouldn’t that be something you wouldn’t forget? Oh, yeah, right, I guess he forgot he is left handed, carries his gun in a left handed holster he purchased. He thinks he’s right handed because he forgot all of this, so now he thinks he’s right handed?

         He’s got a lot of ‘splainin to do!

       • @CommonSenseForChange:

         Does this gun have a safety?

     • Way to go Riisey! They are frustrating aren’t they and don’t make any sense. I can’t believe how devoted some people are to him. I think it’s more about wanting to be right, they picked a side and will now twist and turn and bend things until it fits their agenda.

       And nasty!!! i am worried for the world when you see the way supposed adults behave, they even bully and spit on a dead child, and hate on a family suffering a major loss…and i’ve never seen any of them pull each other up over the disgusting venom they vomit, they just pat each other on the back. It is sickening. And they hate EVERYONE that doesn’t lick georges hairy lying arse. Ooooh the judge was a meanie and told george off so now they want a new judge, O’mara didn’t take the bond hearing as an opportunity to lead a sermon about St. George the Brave so they’ve turned on him too. Any witness, investigator, family member or dog that doesn’t blindly support zimmerman is attacked. Thank God we have this place to regain our sanity.

       • O’Mara has no choice but to tread carefully! He must not stir up passions so high, that it becomes common knowledge of just what it means that Trayvon has NO GZ TRACE at all on his hands. Because it means that it’s unimportant who started the fight, because there was no fight at all!

         Whatever may have happened, whatever witnesses may claim to have seen, there is no way for Trayvon to touch GZ, without getting some kind of trace evidence of that touching on his hands.

         Like I said before in another post, the body sheds dead cells all day long.
         Touch a cheek, a head or any other part of a persons flesh, and some of those dead skin cells are going to stick to you like they’ve been glued to you. A punch to the face that breaks the nose, is going to release a spray of spittle and a plume of sweat. Probably so thin you won’t even see it, but it will be there, and like gunshot residue it’s going to cover those hands in a fine thin film of dna, saliva or sweat filled with dead skin cells.
         Especially the nose, because it’s filled with oil glands.

         Now go back and look at the reenactment and see how GZ tries to waffle his way around all the inconsistencies that make up his fight story. That’s because it never happened. Add that he’s supposed to be drawing his left handed gun, from a left handed holster, located on his right side, with his right hand.

         No need to mention that a person straddling him, while he’s back down on the ground, has only go close his legs tighter, to prevent any such draw.
         There is no way you can reach your waist band holster, by reaching to the outside of those legs on your mid to upper torso. You have to reach under, and so, by merely closing his legs tight to your body, you straddler prevents you from drawing the gun, by making it impossible for you to pull it past his legs. Then, add in that it’s butt forward, making an already impossible task, even more difficult. Of course you could still probably shoot yourself in the leg, if you can get the safety off.

         Thus, the only way Georgie poo can draw his gun and turn it around, is if he’s unencumbered and totally free to do so. Otherwise it’s wrist burn time as they each struggle for control, or to prevent control. All of which means more trace/dna transfer. But, that never happened either. So, Georgie poo, just drew his gun and fired into the body of an unarmed child who was probably trying to pull away, but was being yanked back by the clothes.

         I assume there’s going to be some testimony by people well versed in hand to hand, wrestling and such, to demonstrate what the options would be if GZ’s story were true. I’d love to see his face, when two actors demonstrate the positions he describes, and shows that he could not have possibly done what he says he did. But then, he won’t be taking the stand, because that would be a sure murder 1 verdict.

       • @Lonnie –

         I think the butt forward piece is built on faulty logic. The clip side of the gun would be attached to Zimmerman’s pants or underpants in a way that would render the gun in the proper position to fire from the right. IOW, the gun doesn’t appear to be backwards at the access point.

378. If I’m not mistaken, O’Mara received a 2nd and 3rd round of discovery. The 2nd round seems to have been quite a long time ago. I checked http://www.gzlegalcase.com to see if I missed a new release, but nope. Does O’Mara have unlimited time to review the discovery, or is he failing to comply with the Judge’s orders? Is he filing that many motions to suppress the information, lol?

     “Um, Judge, I’m going to need you to suppress all this material…because… you see…it’s going to be highly prejudicial to my client. I mean, this isn’t fair! He had injuries, did you know that, Judge? If we let all this out there, people might start to think he’s guilty!”

     • I was thinking he had 30 days to review info then turn it over. He really is fighting to suppress a lot of evidence. I can most likely tell ya GZ has done some major damage with this next release. The fbi reports, is this their findings alone or what do you guys think it is? Taaffe where are you? I am intrigued with where he has run off too. Are there anymore burglaries occurring in the neighborhood since Z was arrested?I am curious. Is Taffee still NW in the absence of Z?

       • I doubt there were more burglaries after he killed Trayvon Martin. I doubt there were many burglaries before George Zimmerman moved in as a renter and/or hooked up with Frank Taaffe either.

     • Try this:
       [the author has TM’s height wrong by 1 inch, making it an exact match for a free standing, George Zimmerman]

379. More evidence TBR 10a on Thursday:

     http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-09/news/os-george-zimmerman-more-evidence-20120709_1_second-degree-murder-case-evidence-release

     • Thank you! Added to the Update section.

380. New evidence to be released at 10a.m. Thursday, July 12, 2012.

     • Thank you! Added to the Update section.

     • The conservative nut house and some retired attorney are calling for Lester to step away from case, ok so if it doesn’t go as you like than ask the judge to step down. Omara already did that with the first judge!! This retired attorney said he made reference to Zimmerman being a flight risk, and he spoke as though Zimmerman would be prosecuted, these people are very stupid. Lester gave him a low bond, Casey Anthony had to stay in prison 3 years. Why is everybody feeling so sorry for him, they didn’t worry about, Oj, Anthony, Peterson and the others getting a fair trial. Why is he so different??

       • It’s all about the NRA and their determination to not change anything in the SYG law. Add to that here was a racial issue they refuse to acknowledge. I believe Zimm had an obsession with racial profiling because Trayvon was black. His famous words, “These asshole they always get away” and “fucking coons” says it all.

381. O’Mara was on CNN, again, talking to Piers Morgan last night. I only saw a brief moment, but O’Mara stated they were not accepting donations from racist organizations. Call me cynical, but I took it more as him wanting to brainwash (jury pool taint) people into thinking it is the average citizen supporting GZ; in addition, O’Mara knows being backed by racists looks awful for GZ, so of course he doesn’t want donations to be tracked back to racist organizations. He wants the racists to donate individually, lol. Silly rabbit, O’Mara, tricks are for kids! 😛

     • I take it that nobody but Piers Morgan (a former Murdoch employee not yet cleared of criminality) wanted to help O’Mara dispell the public’s calling him out for his racist whistle-calls to Zimmerman’s racist donors. I haven’t seen any legitihttp://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234_p2/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.htmlmate news org or commentator address O’Mara’s race-baiting.

       Since O’Mara knows the donations aren’t tracked, he also knows he’s free to say whatever he wants as far as returning racist donor money. It can’t be proved without transparency into the donors and O’Mara knows this.

       Eventually, O’Mara will publicize one or two faked returns for publicity, but all donors to Zimmerman should be made public to verify anything O’Mara says.

       I hear the bar associations have been looking into O’Mara’s unethical pleas to racists to send money as they should since what O’Mara is doing brings down public perception of lawyers being anything near officers of a court system based on justice for all AND his greed is obviously not based on helping his client.

       http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234_p2/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html

       O’Mara claimed to take the case pro-bono. O’Mara learned of the cash and thought “cash windfall”, now I can charge. Prior to this, O’Mara was content milking the taxpayers for expenses — probably used to overcharging since the gov would be paying. Now that he can’t do that because he gave up his pro-bono status, he’s under pressure to raise money from the next best sucker — poor, ignorant racists afraid of teenagers, minorities, etc. Basically, get money any way he can with no regard for ethics or anything moral.

     • You can link any bank account to PayPal. You can make the PayPal with any email address you like, they take brand new hotmail ones if you prefer. You can make a debit/credit card on just about any bank account.

       When the donation hits the recipient’s PayPal all they know is the email of the person who sent it.

       So how do they know it wasn’t a racist organisation, if the donation looks like it came from johnsmith1111111@hotmail?

       Oh and it costs no more to make 100 $100 donations than one $10,000 one. Oh, $9999 one as PayPal doesn’t like to handle the round reportable figure.

       I don’t think they care where the money comes from as long as it keeps rolling in.

382. i still cant get over the unabashed, shameless begging for money on gzlegalcase. That’s all it exists for, as a revenue raiser. Its a fucking disgrace. It seems to me that George didn’t have any money before this shooting and that is because he is always getting in trouble and getting fired, so now he gets to pay all his debts, his lawyer and living expenses all on the back of a dead teenager. Here’s a thought, why didn’t his wife go out a get a job to pay for their living expenses?? So what if she was studying, she wouldn’t be the first person to have to work and study at the same time. She was unknown when the first pleas for public donations came in and that’s what most people do to pay their bills…but no, they realised they had some die hard supporters and decided to take advantage of that and get rich…

     • Jo,

       I am sickened by this too, it saddens me that the Martin family has to sit by and see all this transpire. Their child is dead at the hands of a maniac and all people can think to do is donate money to help the killer. This is a first for me, is this what our world is coming too?? I have never seen anything like this. I have also never heard of a person getting the State to pay for their defense and also have a high powered attorney as well. I know the State has to soak up some cost but most people get a court appointed attorney if they don’t have the funds to hire an attorney. I can’t see how he doesn’t have to pay taxes on this money? is it still considered a gift when the money is this excessive? the thing I find so ironic is the fact that George’s mother testified and said that George only attacked the undercover agent because he didn’t tell him who he was, isn’t that weird because he didn’t think he owed Martin the knowledge of who he was that night? so since that is the case then Martin should have knocked him out just like he jumped the Dea agent. Oh but the shoe can’t be on the other foot can it!! sorry pieces of crap that donate to him!!

       • “I am sickened by this too, it saddens me that the Martin family has to sit by and see all this transpire. Their child is dead at the hands of a maniac and all people can think to do is donate money to help the killer. This is a first for me, is this what our world is coming too?? I have never seen anything like this.”

         I agree.

       • I share these sentiments. My heart aches for them; I don’t know how they are able to remain so graceful and composed under the circumstances. It makes me sick to read the things people write about this family. I want to scream so loud when I read some of the disgusting, hateful comments directed towards TM, his family, and friends. I just hope that they don’t see all the comments that we see visiting some of the sites on the net.

       • The money that GZ took to pay his bills with, will certainly be counted as income by the IRS, as well as the money spent on bail and legal fees. It’s all income to GZ, except what the defense fund can cover, which I don’t see as much.

         But, that aside, just imagine what GZ would have faced if he hadn’t shot TM, and had merely held him until the police got there. GZ would be facing “Unlawful detention”, probably kidnap and unlawful restraint, assault and some other charges, depending on whether the police discovered that GZ was armed as well. In short, GZ would have been ruined by the lawsuits he faced because of his own actions. He could not face it, his ego is too thin, so perhaps this is what he realized in that split second, that caused him to fire his weapon and kill.

         With GZ’s knowledge of law, and the way he was trying to square his actions with NW rules, it makes much more sense that his own knowledge of the illegality of his own actions, rather than some momentary lapse of sanity, was the cause of him killing Trayvon, who would be a witness against him.

383. Here’s a good illustration of how GZ’s father tells a story that can be dismissed:

     • These video are okay but go to google earth yourself and try to time ANY of the things GZ claims. Many of them have problems. Most importantly, the timing of TM approaching his car and seemingly passing the car, then the 30 second wait until TM runs establish a benchmark with which to judge GZ’s recored call to dispatch against, and contrast to his many (contradictory) statements that are meant to explain his movements and motives.

       • willisnewton,

         You are so correct!! his statements are so erratic and far fetched that you would think he has multiple personality disorder. Who in their right mind would invent all of this!! I am in information overload. I have had to start pasting information into a file in order to keep up with what has been said and what hasn’t. When my friends on twitter,etc…ask me a question I have to refer to my stored information. I just can’t believe all of this mess. I really don’t know how they aid they never had enough evidence for a manslaughter charge.

         • I don’t know how GZ can claim self defense after he admittedly followed Trayvon and provoked the incident that would make him guilty of an aggressive act. There is no proof whatsoever that Trayvon initially caused the confrontation by verbally and then physically attacking him. It’s only George Zimmerman’s word which has been shown to be a contradiction of the events that night. Not to mention, he has been found to be a liar in court by not disclosing the donations in his paypal account, thus hiding from the judge his finances which is a serious offense in itself. Hopefully the timing of events along with the forensic evidence will bring out the truth.

           Here is an interesting link on Florida section 776.041.
           http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/akron_law_cafe/2012/04/florida-cases-interpreting-section-776-041-person-who-initially-provoked-incident-may-not-claim-self-defense/

           • Zimmerman only has his word. And, that means nothing.

             He could have stood a chance until bond hearing 1. But, he made his bed & now it’s time to go the fuck to sleep (yes, the book title).

           • Also… We are forgetting that Trayvon had 40 dollars on him, so he could suspect that the follower was intending to rob him.

       • This is why I suggest that someone with the skills and data, do the timeline in a complete fashion, by starting from TM leaving home and do it several ways:
         1. First put the confirmed times and locations on the map.
         2. Use time/motion to work forward from these points.
         3. Use time/motion to work backwards from these points.
         4. Overlay these and collect the gaps, ignoring GZ’s inputs.

         Then finally, overlay it all with GZ’s input/story.

         I’ll bet that even the gaps don’t line up. He either won’t be where he says he was, or he’ll even be unable to reach his next stated position, such and the like. But, then we’ll see, no only the quantity, but the quality of GZ’s attempts to manipulate the story of the nights events.

         He does this, because he’s impressed by the SPD 14 hour course on NW’ing, and he therefore considers it paramount — that the obstructions to his plans the NW rules represents — be answered in some fashion.

         Thus he tries to create confusion where none , at all should exist:
         ex: He needs an address, for a location, where the police can meet him.
         By creating confusion on this matter, he attempts to obscure the simple fact that, to meet the police — the only thing NW rules authorize him to do — he needs only to drive his truck back to the clubhouse and wait.

         Instead he tries to create a totally useless narrative that the police need his help to keep track of the suspects movements. AND keep alive the impression that he doesn’t know any better than to do this, because of the nature of the situation, as if it is so dire. Dire, because there’s a strange and spaced out and likely criminally intended young black male on the loose in the neighborhood, likely to physically harm someone. (This is precisely what “hands in his waistband” is all about, police use that phraseology all the time to justify shootings of people they thought were armed see: Sean Bell nyc).

         This attention to NW rules, by “avoidance/deflection/confusion” demonstrates his keen awareness of the rules he would otherwise be breaking without “cause”. Rules, which he understands, would have a major impact on any planned SYG defense.

         On “the other side” after the events, he is quite happy to learn that few, if anyone is very concerned about the impact of NW rules, and that even fewer people know them at all. So, for 46 days he continues to spin yarns, until the clamor for an arrest reigns him in a bit.

     • That is the same story that GZ tells in the walkthrough. His father was on the corner (near the Ford truck) watching the walkthrough.

       The only addition GZ made was a story about his truck lights having gone off (on a timer) so he had to mess about trying to get his flashlight going. This uses up about another 30 or 40 seconds. Still way waaaay short of the time needed. And still 40+ feet short of where the shooting actually happened.

384. Here is the official list for tomorrow’s release:

     Click to access redacted%20second%20discovery.pdf

     • That stinks! No M&I vid. Thanks for the list. Maybe there will be something we didn’t think about in the dump.

       • It’s there…check pg. 3, CSFC under SAO 4th. 🙂

385. Why does GZ make the comment about not being able to see clearly because he had blood in his eyes? I’m not sure at all how he would *actually* have blood in his eyes, but is he possibly telling on himself in a way?

     When someone is angry, sometimes one might say, “I was seeing red.” The term “I had/have blood in my eyes” can also mean the same.

     Feel free to point and laugh after I quote this Lil Wayne lyric, LOL:

     “I got ice in my veins, blood in my eyes, hate in my heart, love in my mind.”

     We know how much GZ loves to speak in code.

     • NLME,

       You crack me up, when lil Wayne said it, yes!! it was suppose to be a euphemism for all he has seen and the hard life he has over come. Cute though.

       I do believe Zimmerman was pulling crap out of his endless supply closet of lies. I do believe Zimmerman thought he had gotten away with his crime and this is why he just added or took away whatever he liked.

       I believe he wants to make us believe that he was hit so hard that the blood from his nose ran into his eyes instead of toward gravity which would have been down the sides of his face along the cheeks. Are we to believe that the photo taken by the neighbor of his nose, absence of any blood smeared all over his face, which would indicate that he possibly bled into his eyes. Would not have been photographed? and why not sir!!
       I would not think he washed his face but left the nose bleeding for picture evidence. I hate thinking of that picture because Zimmerman loos so smug in that cell phone picture.

       I heard that that neighbor John took a picture of Martins body, two pictures at that!! where are they and was he allowed to keep them on his phone? did I hear this right?

       • That Lil Wayne quote was via commenter “question everything trust no one.” 🙂 I do enjoy Lil Wayne though. Well, Tha Carter III was superb.

       • Witness 13 took the photos. I believe John is witness 6. I not sure if witness 13 is name jeremy or john also.

         While being interviewed he told the investigator he took three pictures He laughed when he got them on the computer. He emailed the photos right then and there to the investigator interviewing him. Back of Gz head,T rayvons body, and he mentions the flashlight.

         http://%5Bredacted%5D. axiomamnesia. com/people/witnesses/witness-13-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/

         hope this helps
         Loree

         • Just curious — Anybody know how did Axiom Amnesia get a hold of these interviews? I haven’t listened to many of them yet and am going to try to listen to this witness soon but the recordings are not in the public domain as of right now, correct? Hmmmm.

         • The laugh could have been due to a funny computer wallpaper background, other humorous pictures accessed before the shooting pics, a chuckle worthy chat message, etc.

           I’m only guessing this is the case because I can’t imagine anyone laughing at any of the 3 pictures the witness described. I also here the noise of a CD ROM spinning after the laugh and before he starts describing the pics at the 14:50 mark so they were likely saved/stored on a disc rather than the hard drive.

           A family member is real leery in the background when the pics are being emailed, eh? Meaning, a female says: “You’re the attorney of?”

           Though it’s fairly obvious after hearing the descriptions of this witness’ pics, I guess we know who sold Zimmerman’s bloodied head picture to ABC News after that curious attorney question.

           The following has been mentioned several times by others but I need to see who Zimmerman was on the phone with right after the shooting before police showed up. I also need to know how this witness got Shellie Zimmerman’s number.

           These details are skipped over a handful of times just like the fact that you can’t delete a cellphone pic and then have it saved to your PC, right? Or, is this exactly how Apple’s (for example) cloud works (when activated/allowed by the user)? Yes, I have an iPhone but definitely don’t use the cloud for my pics.

           Last thing, I’m pretty sure this witness lied under oath too. There’s absolutely no way he forgot he had these pictures. If the investigators had a reason to dig further, this witness will presumably have texts/emails to friends talking about the pics. Remember — he was proud of them. He even wanted to edit the flashlight pic to “fix it.”

           • @NLME,
             thanks for your response. Since we can’t see the interview, we all have our thoughts of whats going on. I think he laughed at GZ head, I don’t know why but thats what I think. As to the pictures, no one forgets they have pictures of a dead person, I agreed he lied and held back information. It would be nice to leave the links intact. Can’t wait to get home from work and sit in your living and discuss the new information coming out this morning. BBL
             Loree

       • @NLME

         If someone already answered, just delete this.

         IIRC – The FL Courts have a media release page where press can download the info, but I think it costs to download. I believe this how the clubhouse and witness statements were accessed.

         • Per princss6 just a few minutes ago, it sounds like that’s the case. Interesting — didn’t know that.

       • @riisey

         “I do believe Zimmerman was pulling crap out of his endless supply closet of lies. I do believe Zimmerman thought he had gotten away with his crime and this is why he just added or took away whatever he liked.”

         Oh, no doubt about that at all. He adds, subtracts, and twists as much as he can while giving himself some wiggle room to add or subtract more in the future as needed. He is taking the events of that night and using them to fit his narrative of SD.

         The blood in his eyes comment, so not seeing clearly, was just a weird add in considering I don’t think it helps him much. I do indeed think it was a bit of a tell on himself moment. I don’t think he’s particularly clever enough to invent many lies, so he’s taking truths/events and twisting them/taking them out of order/etc.

         While the context of Drop The World is what Lil Wayne heard/saw/went through in his life and taking that/his anger from those experiences to push him to success, the saying “blood in my eyes” is equivalent to “seeing red.” It is the same as, “I saw blood.” When he said it, he was trying to imply literally when it was something figurative.

         GZ was trying to make it known that when he aimed, he wasn’t seeing clearly. He’s saying because blood was in his eyes, but we know he wasn’t seeing or thinking clearly because he was seeing red from the anger and hate inside him towards these “fucking assholes.”

         Getting to quote one of my favorite songs was just a plus, lol.

       • @NLME

         I’m also wondering how JM (the witness your talking about) can be linked to GZ. We had FT saying the photo released to ABC was taken by a friend, but pretty sure the Manalo’s claimed not to know him. Is that right?

         And yes, photos can be uploaded to a computer then deleted off the phone to save space on the phone. I doubt he forgot he had them, though. Who the hell forgets they have photos of a crime scene/homicide?!

         I get a weird vibe from anyone who asks did you use the 9 or 40 after the death of someone. Just sayin’.

         • “And yes, photos can be uploaded to a computer then deleted off the phone to save space on the phone.”

           I was asking if the photos can be deleted first on the phone and then still saved on a computer.

           This witness says that he deleted the pictures and then saved them on his computer.

         • “I get a weird vibe from anyone who asks did you use the 9 or 40 after the death of someone. Just sayin’.”

           I agree.

       • @NLME

         “I was asking if the photos can be deleted first on the phone and then still saved on a computer.

         This witness says that he deleted the pictures and then saved them on his computer.”

         I apologize, I must have misread or misunderstood! Hm. I thought it was possible to save it on an external memory chip, delete off internal phone memory, take card out, and upload. I *think* that is possible, but don’t hold me to that. ;P

         • I read the pics were taken by an iPhone. Meaning, the user can’t swipe out cards.

           Maybe Jon took the pics and deleted them shortly after the shooting but they auto saved to Apple’s cloud in the meantime? Is that how Apple’s iTunes cloud thing works (IF the user elects to use it)?

           No matter what — Jon knew he had the pics. They were burned to a CD as can be heard in the recording.

       • @NLME

         I’m not certain how iCloud works. I think it’s supposed to update all your devices, so if you have something on one device then it will automatically add itself to your other devices. I’m not sure if he deleted it from the phone, if it would remain on other devices or delete on all other devices.

         Weird.

         Btw, I finally just listened to W11. She kind of sounds like a dumb bitch. Her story sounds too rehearsed, IMO. Also, Jeremy doesn’t sound like he has a southern drawl. I want to know what he said before the shot AND after.

         Gonna go check out Jon’s now.

         • Yeah — that’s it… iCloud!

           Didn’t listen to Jeremy’s witness statement yet. Plan to do so pretty soon. Not sure I’ll listen to her 911 call again. I hate her voice…a lot.

     • Ha! I’m thinking its much simpler than that. I thinking he poked his own finger in his eye or a bead of perspiration trickled down.

       Oh, wait.. George Zimmerman didn’t sweat after he murdered in cold blood. Scratch that.

       • CSFC,

         That’s ok you are entitled to add to this fable any way you like. I believe if I went to the local elementary school and told the children of this great story, they too would cry bullshite. I am just so tired of this liar. Did any of you see this reenactment video that was on global grind. . I have attached just in case. Twitter is blowing up and the Zimmerman supporters are saying FBI blew the racist thing out of the water, saying that his friends and all said he was not a racist. I wonder if this is true and if so were any of those friends black, also I hope they did not take Taaffe’s word.

         http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-re-enactment-trayvon-martin-video-compared-police-emergency-call-video

     • @NLME:

       From what I can surmise, anyone can request the information but there is a cost associated with getting the information. This is why they are asking for donations, so they can purchase the evidence and make it available. Certain members of the media have also been complaining on twitter about the cost associated with getting the evidence, especially from Sanford. Apparently, a few news outlets never paid for some of the evidence from discovery and now all media sources have to pay their $100 dollar fee upfront to access the password protected website with video and audio.

       • Ohhhh… Let me stop redacting the links then if all these interviews were properly obtained. I didn’t know that!!! Thank you.

386. Why was Taaffe interviewed by the FBI? is this why he has been so silent? I want to know, I need to know. As for Thursday. I am going to be waiting on this. I am off so I will be tweeting like mad.

     • @riisey

       I think FT was interviewed simply because he went to the media to speak on GZ’s behalf. In addition, he claimed to have talked to GZ after the incident. FT has made some interesting statements, such as his reenactment, as well as him saying that GZ was mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.

       Verrrrry interested in what he had to say considering he made a comment that he didn’t give anything up.

       • Qetno,
         I was up late, looking through interviews and trying to remember stuff. The FBI got involved due to possible hate crime right? Ok, well this is why I feel like Taaffe was questioned, he claimed to know Zimmerman so well, he also played a voice mail with Zimmerman calling him and thanking him, he also left his condolences for a son who has been dead numerous years, weird!! I have a feeling this is why he has shut up, he appeared very racist in all of his interviews and he made very bad statements. He wouldn’t definitely help make a hate crime charge stick, why would a non racist hang out with a racist? see below

         http://www.allyourtv.com/index.php/2011-07-25-15-56-50/575-zimmerman-neighbor-talks-tals-to-cnn-prior-burglaries-were-by-young-black-males

         http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/03/zimmerman-defender-rants-about-young-black-males/

         This is just one of many racially charged interviews Taaffe has been caught up in. I can definately see why the FBI wanted to speak with him.

387. Reposting…

     Really stuck here and need to know I’m not just seeing things.

     Zimmerman’s “free country” jacket picture taken by Sanford Police with SPD’s cellphone shows a pattern of the front of Zimmerman’s jacket. To me, it would look like a white wife-beater tee-shirt in the dark. Is this what Witness 3 mistakenly took for a white tee-shirt since the light portion of the jacket would “pop” in the darkness just as it does on the SPD photo?

     

     • hi, i don’t think it could be mistaken for a white T sorry, although it’s not a clear photo, the original would be interesting

388. @NLME

     In anticipation of tomorrow’s evidence dump, would you consider creating a new blog post as a continuation to the discussion of evidence? I don’t mean to be pushy or demanding. Just suggesting since this post is getting mighty full, and I’m sure it’s going to get even crazier with tomorrow’s release of new evidence.

     • That’s a good idea.

389. I have started a little diary of comments that were really touching in the Trayvon Martin case because there are some that are really heartwarming, intellectual and a lot hit close to home for a lot of people. I had to post this one that a young man wrote in a New York Times commenting section about his own brother. Read if you like!!

     The more I read about this the more upsetting it gets. I don’t have any children but I do have a brother who has Asperger’s. He is obviously different in that you know when you meet him that something is wrong. My mother and I always worry about something happening to him as a result of his inability to read certain social signals. He occasionally gets too close to people for their comfort. He can make statements that sound odd. When he was younger he used to scrutinize car headlights to determine when the car was made. He’s harmless but would someone like Zimmerman see him that way?

     And I’m sure that parents of black male teens go through what I go through with my brother but to a far greater degree. I can’t protect my brother from the world or the people who live in it. All I can do is to try and educate him on how to behave. However, when he is under stress he reverts to some of his old behavior. He’s easily flustered and stutters when someone talks to him in an impatient or angry way. He can’t help it. But many people don’t understand that and they assume that he’s being difficult. Some might figure out that he has a real problem. It’s the ones that don’t who worry me. Not every black male teenager is looking to make trouble. They may not be angels but they don’t deserve to be killed for being in an area while black. No parent should have to worry more than usual because his or her teen is on their own.

     I thought this was really touching, he is correct!! He does have to continually worry about his brother due to ignorance of some people. Although Martin was not suffering from a disease as the young man aboves brother is, he was still a teenager and he was not an adult that has lived on his own, he had a lot more time to go in order to understand certain social aspects. Many have scrutinized Martin for not being scared because he didn’t call 911, and that he just needed to answer GZ’s questions and saved his own life.

     Him not calling 911 shows his level of maturity, he just turned 17 and I am sure he was comforted by having a friend talking to him on the phone. Young people don’t think well let me call 911. Who is to say Martin would have if he answered his questions and what free air do we breathe on this planet is owned by someone else, meaning if Zimmerman had caught him in the act of stealing or on his property he had a right to ask him why he was there but since he wasn’t then he shouldn’t have approached him at all, it was none of his business. He didn’t own anything in that neighborhood he just rented there anyway.

390. When he was younger he used to scrutinize car headlights to determine when the car was made.

     You can tell when the car was made by the date that is stamped on the tail lights.

391. What the… Now there’s a new witness saying Trayvon was on top.

     http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-release-20120712_1_trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-george-zimmerman

     • Apparently it is W03 (white t-shirt). Check on page 31/284.

       I have the feeling that this actually is an interpretation of the interviewer. They report on March 27th. I have 2 recorded interviews of the lady but none from March 27th. In none of the 2 interviews I got she says that the guy who was no top and who wore a white t-shirt is the one laying on the ground.
       I’ll check again later

       • Ah, thank you for pointing that out and redirecting me to that page number! I hadn’t looked at the documents prior to seeing that comment in the OS. Interesting. The white shirt thing has been so confusing considering both GZ’s and TM’s under shirts were light colored.

392. Updated link saying FBI investigation turned up nothing to show GZ was a racist. Interesting tidbit: GZ apparently went to the gun shop AFTER the shooting saying he needed more guns!

     http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-release-20120712_1_trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-george-zimmerman

393. That one is brief though interesting as it may explain a bit more GZ’s anger management problem:
     http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/friend-zimmerman-estranged-from-family-before-trayvon-martin

394. PDF Discovery Documents:

     Click to access Zimmerman-documents.pdf

     • Thanks QET,

       We finally have Chad’s story. It’s on page 39/284.

       He is one of the callers we got from the call log. He was checking on TM as it was getting late and TM told him that he was on his way back and that it was raining.

       Chad didn’t hear anything. His house is way south but he also says that he was playing video games and had his headset on. He went to bed when his Mother & Tracy came back and told them that Trayvon wasn’t back home.

       Tracy assumed his boy (cf. next page) was with his cousin until the next day.

     • Another one page 34/284: “The injuries at the back of Zimmerman’s head appeared to be Abrasions and not Lacerations”.

       This indicates that the back of his head was scrapped by a rough surface (concrete could make it). It doesn’t look like it fits with the smashing GZ is claiming.

       • “This indicates that the back of his head was scrapped by a rough surface (concrete could make it). It doesn’t look like it fits with the smashing GZ is claiming.”

         I can’t wait for the prosecution to call a medical expert — or thousands of them — to say there were absolutely no life threatening injuries to Zimmerman’s body.

         • “I can’t wait for the prosecution to call a medical expert — or thousands of them — to say there were absolutely no life threatening injuries to Zimmerman’s body.”

           I’m not sure that will be relevant.

           The question will be was Zimmerman reasonably in fear for his life and would the average ordinary person have been in that same situation, not was Zimmerman medically qualified to assess the situation.

           I’m not even sure a medical expert would be able, in real time, to be certain if it were happening to them.

           unitron

           • If that’s the defense’s argument and it proves effective in a court of law (very unlikely), get ready for a shit load of people to start a “scuffle,” shoot their enemy, and claim self defense/stand your ground. It won’t be pretty.

             • We are forgetting that this will be a jury trial? In other words, what we are discussing, and more, are things that may or may not be submitted to the jury for inspection. Neither the prosecution nor the defense is going to try any view, so complex that every “i” must be dotted or every “t” crossed.

               While much of what we’re viewing will contribute to the theories they decide to work with. Much of the evidence we’re seeing, will not be critical to support of those final theories. So, much of it will be held back, only to be displayed if needed to impeach a theory or witness or call other testimony (already allowed) into question.

               This is the real reason why GZ’s credibility weighs so heavily on this case. The defense’s task will be to select from the evidence, that which they believe will support their theory of innocence. Much of that will be destroyed, not just by GZ’s lack of credibility, but also by the fact that it is not possible to align it with the physical evidence.

               Sure it will boil down to whether or not GZ actually feared for his life! But the key will be “would a reasonable person have feared for their life under the circumstances presented/claimed”? And that is what makes it critical that the surrounding evidence, in which these claims are embedded, be straight forward and clear.

               I do not believe that a jury will believe, that a claim of a fear of death, embedded in a field of lies, untruths, obfuscations and other suspicious materials, events and errata, will give them the confidence they need to believe that, GZ had a serious reason to fear an unarmed child. He will also need to prove that he was attacked, because the evidence says that he wasn’t. As things now stand, he might just as well be claiming that TM had supernatural powers, and that he feared them. A jury will probably not find such a claim convincing or reasonable.

       • It is correct that GZ’s injuries do not need to be life threatening to claim SD/SYG.

         The fact that his injuries are not consistent with his tale is going to be quite relevant.

         In addition, scaring yourself shitless because of a scenario you created in your own mind thus causing paranoia is not exactly reasonable.

         • “The fact that his injuries are not consistent with his tale is going to be quite relevant.”

           Correct.

           “In addition, scaring yourself shitless because of a scenario you created in your own mind thus causing paranoia is not exactly reasonable.”

           Ding, ding, ding…The crime of Second Degree Murder occurs when a person commits murder with a depraved mind.

         • I wonder what the jury will think, when they’re told that: Although GZ advised us of his mental deficiencies AFTER he was finally arrested and charged, did he also advise the SPD of these deficiencies when he was put in charge of NW? Or did he conceal it? Or did the SPD not believe it was material, that the proposed NW Commander, had mental deficits?

           Were these mental deficits apparent to friends, family and neighbors? If he was under care for these problems, did he advise his care givers of his intent to take on increased responsibilities? Like owning and carrying a fire arm, and/or mounting and commanding a NW chapter?

           If not, that would make this a possible “criminally negligent homicide”. Since with out professional advice, there would be no way to know if he was prone to kill anyone while carrying a concealed weapon, and being mentally deficient in self control.

           Why would this be any different than a person accepting a post as a brain surgeon, while concealing the fact that they suffered narcolepsy?

395. I have added to the image site (http://imgur.com/a/bcAII) a table putting side by side the statements George Zimmerman made.
     I don’t know how someone can believe him. His basic story is simply impossible.

     • Just reviewed the link (again) and must say I love reading your stuff. Thank you (again)!

       Any idea at which point in Zimmerman’s commute that the call to police was made? I’ll assume at point J and/or K (because it fits my narratives to date very well). Can this be confirmed or is a time stamp from the videos impossible to figure out?

       I may have nailed the Ridgeline analysis but that wasn’t anywhere near as difficult, annoying, or tedious as these [insert expletive] videos. I could barely pay attention even when certain key seconds/marks were pointed out.

       That said, do you have a “Top 10” list of marks that we should pay attention to for the catalogue of clubhouse videos released so far?

       • The call must have been placed at point J.
         George Zimmerman’s route takes place during the first traffic bump that ends right around the time of the call. So, basically, he turned around the clubhouse/mailboxes for a couple of minutes and stopped for the call.

         I would recommend that you use the traffic histogram & correlation table as base for any work you want to make yourself on the videos. I’ve created both charts in order to help analyzing those videos. It saves eyes and prevents headakes.

         • @tchoupi.caillou

           Whoooeeee, that was a lot of work! Great! You should forward a link to the SP, she’d sure appreciate it I’ll bet.

           The other day I reviewed an older YouTube video timeline, one that had TM sheltering at the mailboxes in the community to the west of RATL. Then going from there to the front gate, only to find them closed and traipsing back to the cut through, to enter there. I caught myself wondering why the maker of that video was able to find so much time. Then I remembered that he probably subtracted it from the wait at the mailboxes.

           Not a problem since we had less info back then. Now, however, we have GZ saying that he picked up TM at Taaffe’s. In the reenactment, it seemed reasonable to me.

           He says that TM is walking northeast wards on the west side of the road, which is exactly what a person walking would do, if they were intending to cross the road, but saw a car coming. They wouldn’t stop walking until they were even with the place they were trying to reach on the other side of the road. So TM walks onto the grass, because he’s preparing to cross, as soon as the car goes by. But the car doesn’t go by, instead it slows down and possibly stops, which would be seriously odd for the presented conditions.
           It would also be very annoying for the walker, who wants it to pass so they can cross.

           Thus, all it takes to get the “following” ball rolling, is for GZ to creep a bit forward and stop again, before continuing on. Now GZ says that TM arrives at the clubhouse, almost immediately when he gets there, even though TM has a 1minute 20 second walk, while GZ has only a 15 second drive. Hmmm… So maybe GZ doesn’t take only 15 seconds to get there? Maybe he drives really slow, while looking back and following TM?

           Then, by the time he gets to park at the clubhouse, TM is sure he’s being followed. And, TM catches up with GZ so seemingly fast, because GZ has driven so slowly from the cut through over to the clubhouse. If so, then the pieces are falling into place.

           Anyone seen or heard from Taaffe? Or has he “fallen off the face of the earth”?

           • I agree — definitely send your clubhouse video investigation and findings to the Sanford PD, tchoupi!

             If Zimmerman has to sit through an independent expert breaking down each second of these videos, he’ll go nuts and (jokingly) confess to racial profiling/unnecessarily murdering the unarmed teenager just to make the trial stop.

             Lonnie — Shortly after being named a witness, Taaffe definitely faded away. Did he think he could talk and talk and talk but investigators/state of Florida/FBI wouldn’t pay attention?!?

             The following is NOT a confirmed twitter account but this is the last I heard from Frank Taaffe…

             http://www.twitter.com/fbtaaffe

             Yes, some of tweets seen above are extremely distasteful. And, again, I’m not sure if this truly is Frank Taaffe’s twitter account.

       • The top 10…

         I have colored in red or blue the ones of interest in the correlation table.

         • Cool — thank you. I reviewed the table, watched a few videos at the times indicated, probably missed some important stuff, and then got bored.

           Your link which includes still shots (of Zimmerman’s vehicle for example) is fantastic.

     • @tchoupi.caillou

       You’re amazing. Thank you for the continued effort into that link!

       • Thanks. I hope it helps keeping track of evidences and understanding facts. I noticed an increase of daily visits. That’s part of the motivation.

     • Okay, now expand that table to match up all of those points to the call to the police he made that night at 7:09-ish.

       I want to watch you head explode.

       : – )

       unitron

       • My brain is already liquefied from honestly trying to make sense of all statements GZ made. After the last drop of liquefied brain leaks off, I’ll have to start a pro-GZ blog.

396. Did anyone else notice that the witness the FBI interviewed with the girlfriend he was visiting 30 miles away and the open window was Taaffe. The interesting thing about his statement to the FBI was that he didn’t know Zimmernan well, he didn’t know his wife and that he had never been to his house before. How strange is that? what was the reason for that? if the FBI had been watching tv or at least breathing they should have see Taaffe all over tv saying George is my friend and I know him well, we patrolled together, blah blah blah. The reason I know it is him because he told that same story to NY Times, CNN, Fox and whomever else would listen. I can’t figure out what is going on here, is Taaffe trying to distance himself? I didnt really care for any of the witnesses they interviewed because none of them say they really knew him. Going to someone’s job and asking them about their co worker is crap, I work along side good therapist and we don’t have issues with each other but I can’t tell you if they are in the black panther party, kkk, etc. I just didnt understand, it seems George doesn’t have any real friends.

     Oh and has anybody read the child abuse part yet? before it is over they will have a statue built in his honor. This whole thing makes me wonder if we will see justice for this young man and his family. I just smell a big rat!!

     • The child abuse part I believe. Very much so. Trying to get out of further abuse is one common and powerful reason for becoming a liar. It’s also a great way to bring a kid up to be irresponsible, as what happens to him is not connected to his actions. They don’t learn the actions = consequences that most of us did, in the course of learning to distinguish good from bad behaviours.

       Of course similar childhoods have happened to millions of people who don’t become killers as a result, so that is no excuse.

397. sorry but I hit the comment button before I was ready but from the witness accounts, I am starting to believe Zimmerman had a white t shirt on and put that jacket on later. How is it that the people were adamate the man in custody had a white tee shirt on, one witness said it was short sleeve and he looked Hispanic. I am so confused by this case. I need to chill out, seriously..

398. Page 143/284 (Ex-Fiance Interview)
     “. . . Zimmerman’s statement was essentially the reverse of what she had stated in her order.”

     I find that to be particularly chilling in light of our previous discussions about GZ’s final moments with Travyon.

     “I was yelling for help.”

     “He told me to shut the f— up.”

     “He said ‘You’re gonna die tonight.”

     GZ has lots of these pathological patterns.

     • Indeed!

       Don’t forget the big one — “I was crying for help.”

     • Yeah but he is garnering a lot of sympathy already, and now we have someone saying he was abused as a child. The way he acts is like someone with personality disorder. I sure hope the prosecution orders him a pysch eval, because that is the only way we will really expose him. They need to get someone who can professionally tell us he is a compulsive liar. He can blame it on ADHD and whatever else he wants but he is a liar who has very bad anger and control issues. He is also over impulsive and he has bad obsessive behavior. This all led up to Martin being killed, I don’t care about the rest. There are plenty of abused people who are gentle souls. Zimmerman sat in jail and joked about wearing a hoodie, he killed Martin but yet let his mother lives and she is suppose to be the reason he is like this. I knew he was estranged from his brother and I wondered why non of the other family came to his rescue. How can someone who doesn’t really have anything to do with a person sit up and vouch for them.

     • You got it right to the point Milo!
       It establishes a pattern

399. What part of racial profiling do people not get? You don’t have to join the black panthers, kkk, or any other racist group to racially profile someone. You don’t have to constantly be running your mouth about different races at work either. The bottom line is they claimed that black guys were breaking into the neighborhood houses on a constant basis, GZ sends out flyers with descriptions of black males on it, GZ and Taaffe continually lead a parade about black this and that. GZ called the police on black children and adults only. So, what part of that can’t they see made him profile Martin? I was so sick of them basically saying in the FBI report that they felt like he profiled Martins clothes. He had on a hoodie that you can buy anywhere, jeans and tennis shoes. Not a cat suit and a tool belt. I guess they could not the black people who lived in the neighborhood that he terrorized, where is the middle eastern guy? I just don’t get it.

     • “What part of racial profiling do people not get?”

       I agree.

     • “The bottom line is they claimed that black guys were breaking into the neighborhood houses on a constant basis…”

       Is it possible that black guys were breaking into the neighborhood houses on a constant basis?

       How many middle-age to elderly white guys were doing so?

       unitron

       • My neighbourhood has a butt load more crime than zimmermans (granted it has more than 3 streets), but i guarantee 99 per cent is commited by whites. We don’t have a lot of black people here in suburban Australia but there is still a shit load of crime. There may have been black guys guilty of break-ins in that neighbourhood, but thats the point of profiling, not every black guy is a thief. If he was climbing in someones window then yeah he is probably suspicious, but walking in the rain is not suspicious, even if he was wearing high heels and a garter belt, it doesn’t mean shit. If i were to follow and shoot every white guy walking down the street there would be no white guys left. The other day i saw a mother and 2 kids, it was raining, they had their hoods up, i just continued driving past but had to wonder…what is suspicious about that..i didn’t think they were looking for houses to break into, i thought they got caught in the rain, i thought they obviously had somewhere to go. But whenever someone is walking in the rain i now look at them differently…not because they shouldn’t be there, but because i can’t imagine how anyone could find it suspicious, it’s natural, i’ve been caught out in the rain a million times and no one shot me for it.

400. Profiling and hate crime are very different degrees of discrimination.

     I don’t see the killing as a hate crime. Profiling for the purpose of stalking all over the place, yes, definitely. But not a “let’s find a (black/illegal/gay) and beat him t death” type of hate killing.

     It was a kill-the-witness killing, the witness to how he utterly failed at being the big superhero, the witness who’d bring all his dreams crashing down. It wasn’t his life he was “self-defending”, it was his ego.

     And that was successful way beyond his dreams. Even if he’ll have 20 years to rethink it, for now he’s a martyr, almost a cult hero, with much much more than his allotted 15 minutes of fame, an important man in a kevlar vest with a bounty on his head, a fortune rolling in, the talk of the town, the talk of the country.

401. apparently axiom amnesia has the m&i vid but you’ll need to download a divx web player …. i changed browsers from safari to firefox but cannot get it to go. not sure if the donation they are asking is the reason why.

     • i rebooted and it’s working now. but i don’t see the lil buttons to stop it. a little technically challenged.

       • you can double click to maximize; then speed it up.

     • I hate downloading players.

       I could view the video on my iPhone (after closing out an annoying box). If not Safari then try Skyfire. Or, I’m sure they can be watched on Android phones.

     • After downloading divx and installing it, and after downloading the videos themselves, they work in Firefox, they automatically launch RealPlayer (which I assume has to use the divx plugin or whatever).

       However, a couple of months ago I had trouble with the NY Times “interactive” thing in Firefox, and Chrome handled it just fine, so you might give that a try.

       Then after you sit through all of it, you can tell me if there’s actually anything to see.

       (which at this point I doubt)

       unitron

402. Update from 7/13 – George (Certified Creep) Zimmerman asks for a new Judge…AGAIN.

     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/13/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1672219.html

     George Zimmerman fucks up, and the Judge calls him on his BS, so George acts like the little bitch he is and demands a new Judge since apparently calling someone on their shit is biased.

     Hint to GZ: How bout quit being a total fucking idiot!!!!

     • Time he starts thinking about a plea bargain, before Shellie does.

       He’s gotten to where many people wouldn’t believe him if he said the sky is blue or the sun sets in the west.

       • “He’s gotten to where many people wouldn’t believe him if he said the sky is blue or the sun sets in the west.”

         Unfortunate if not deserved (but I know/see what you’re saying).

       • He won’t go for a plea bargain.

         “He’s gotten to where many people wouldn’t believe him if he said the sky is blue or the sun sets in the west.”

         “Unfortunate if not deserved (but I know/see what you’re saying).”

         I feel no sympathy for GZ. He did this all to himself. IF this was truly SD (I don’t believe it was.), he hurt his own claim when he made a number of false statements. I don’t feel sorry for people who act on impulse and put themselves into volatile situation where a reaction is likely going to be elicited. His own words describe someone who followed someone at multiple points (from a vehicle and on foot) with anger towards criminals while the thought of this person being a criminal was in his mind. Chasing after someone with his mindset and a gun strapped to his hip showed no regard for what the other person might think or feel. Then he lies about the events, but wants his claim to be believed. He continues to lie, but think it is unfair that no one believes him.

         No sympathy. He fucked himself.

         • No sympathy here either. None.

     • He threw a fit when he didn’t get his private meeting with the judge! This guy is unfreakin unbelievable!!

       • It looks like Zimmerman is getting desperate knowing full well his defense is not as strong as his attorney is making it out to be. The only thing they have going for them is the head injury which cannot be proven it was Trayvon’s doing. They are playing on the sympathy of their supporters and hope it will influence a jury when the time comes.

     • I am getting so tired of him and his lawyer.

403. I think I understand the prosecution’s strategy. The more GZ goes on about it being self defense the more they are able to show that SYG doesn’t apply. In an earlier part of this thread, we discussed the application of SYG. There are a couple of exceptions…

     “776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
     (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
     (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
     (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
     (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.”

     Clearly, if GZ hadn’t tagged this guy, there would have been no confrontation. He admits to following to the dispatcher and he admits to continuing in the same direction to Det. Serino.

     The question becomes, is that GZ or is it Trayvon screaming? Even if they cannot prove that it was Trayvon, they can ask the question could he have 1) introduced himself to diffuse the situation, or 2) used physical means to fight back?

404. No new comments since July 15? What’s going on?

     • Discussion has moved to the new ‘2nd evidence release’ blog:

       Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman 2nd Evidence Dump Released

       • For the most part, yes.

         I was going to make a trial posting — so, 3 centralized postings — as it approached but the comments are gladly taking awhile to load on the Court Proceedings/Evidence and Maps postings.

405. @NLMe
     I am not getting follow up post since I posted the jail house calls.
     Please help! I am so behind in information.

406. Pingback: George Zimmerman's bloody head - Page 250 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

407. Spoiler alert. Many of us are arriving at the truth. Here is a good hypothesis for the scuffle:
     DeeDee says someone pushed Trayvon. This is George grabbing Trayvon with some kind of locking hold. GZ will hold on to Trayvon for the duration. He has him by the arm, leg, or clothes. It’s where the key ring flashlight was found. This lunge and grasp is why GZ dropped his little flashlight while it was still on. It also knocked Trayvon’s headset or phone into the grass but they are still attached to Trayvon.
     DeeDee hears Trayvon say, “Get off, get off.” He is telling GZ to let go of him. Trayvon is still standing. GZ is not on top of him at this point, just holding on to him.
     Witness 11, Jennifer says she hears the scuffle along the sidewalk and it sounds like a group. Here Trayvon starts to drag George across the concrete. Now, how could he drag 200 lbs? Well, they both go together but it is Trayvon who wants to get away back to the south. All of GZ’s injuries come in this 40 foot drag. His head might have even taken one of Trayvon’s knees to his nose. But GZ won’t let go. He won’t let this asshole get away. Jeremy, w20 says the scuffle lasts 20 seconds. Trayvon is on the sidewalk. George is being dragged on the edge of the sidewalk an partly on the grass. DeeDee hears the grass sound as the phone (headset) is being dragged along over the grass.
     Why does it sound like a group? Imagine the exertion Trayvon is making. Maybe a few grunts. Imagine the injuries in the way of long scrapes and scratches GZ is getting. Maybe a few groans. And w11 specifically mentions hearing grass and concrete involved. Other than that, there is no crying or screams for “Help” yet. These two are totally focused on their scuffle and haven’t thought of bystanders yet.
     This long drag started at the key ring flashlight location and ended up in the north east corner of John’s yard. This is why the remainder and the murder were at the joining of that grass and sidewalk. It’s because Trayvon was going home down the sidewalk. He just ran out of gas so to speak.

     Well, this set GZ off in anger. Can you believe a goon injured him like this? The mighty George of the Jumble? Yes, Jumble. Why didn’t GZ tell the police about how he got dragged south? Because he misunderstood Osterman to tell him not to admit he ever went south. But in this scenario, it was Trayvon who dragged GZ south.
     Yep, this drag and these injuries at the hands or legs of Trayvon may explain why the torture and gunshot followed.
     Why was there no blood on the sidewalk? Because they were moving. And remember GZ’s remark about shimmying or rotating to keep his head off the concrete? Yeah, but it was while he was being dragged. That was his head banging for the night. At the end his head was in the grass. So, look for the blood there.
     I believe what some of you point out about GZ making small changes or reversals to what happened. One here is that instead of Trayvon coming at GZ from the south with a punch, it was the other way around. George came at Trayvon from the south with a flying grip.
     Any more questions?

     • Just one what is the name of the mental institution you escaped from? NLME has left the building I can’t imagine WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I must leave before I puke but here is a twisted tip for you dude get your J’s right. And please find Jordan his mother is looking for him!! Don’t be feeding this very bad new version to your butt-boy John k?

408. I don’t know what the current page is now. Anyway, NMLE, you should update the map to show what GZ claims in the walk through, with notes to show why what he says isn’t likely true. You still have TM entering through the wrong cut through, not the one near Taaffe’s.

     I’ve pulled together quite a bit of evidence here: http://zimmerman-vs-martin.blogspot.com/ Feel free to leave links and suggestions of other evidence that should be included or linked to, as well as good blog posts that have individual links. Like wordpress blogs where you just right click on a posts date and select “copy link location” that link on your clipboard will take anyone who clicks it, right to the exact post.

     Finally, I think people have been thinking about TM running all wrong. Sure, it looks like he could have made it home in the time he had, but for one item we fail to realize. TM was not a trained runner, he was just a kid who had probably already tired himself walking quickly home from store almost a half mile away. Resting at the mailboxes notwithstanding. When he took off running, he probably bolted as a scared teen would, putting every ounce of whatever he had into it. Obviously he couldn’t keep that up very long, not being athletic and trained but sedentary as most teens are.

     So he couldn’t maintain a full throttle run for more than 30 seconds or so, before becoming terribly winded. Had he been trained, he’d have run at a slower but more easily maintainable pace. He didn’t, so after a 100 yard, about the length of a football field, if that, he’d be wracked and gasping for breath. He’d have no other choice but to stop and hide at that point.

     GZ probably caught up with him before he was fully rested, so he was able to easily catch him again when he tried to run back north to escape GZ who was now south of him.

     So, it wouldn’t surprise me that like the contrived phony leg from Taaffe’s to the clubhouse he fabricated out of whole cloth, he simply fabricated the trip across the top of the tee to RVC east out of whole cloth again. And yes, if you read carefully over the witness statements and other evidence, you do get the impression that things are moving around the area with no explanation for them being moved. Which is why many people, who have dug deeply, are tempted to theorize that GZ had a cohort or two out there working with him, either in consort or after-the-fact. Say Osterman dressed completely in black with a ski mask and sunglasses would have been almost invisible and could have moved around freely.

     There are rumors that there were several people “drunks and troublemakers” who were part of the NW, but they’re not listed anywhere, nor have they come forward to say that they were part of the NW program. No records were kept at all, so everyone is free to deny they were part of it now. But, I did note that GZ made plenty of 911 calls about matters in Lake Mary, where Osterman resides.

     • “I did note that GZ made plenty of 911 calls about matters at Lakey Mary”

       Where are you getting this from? Can you provide me with a link so that I can review these records? Thanks a bunch

       • I have it, or a link to it on my dump of an evidence blog. There’s no particular order there, so you’ll have to search around a bit, the blog was just to be for my personal use. Anyway you’ll be looking for GZ’s 911 calls, there’s a big list of them going back quite away. http://tinyurl.com/d4x2y6b

409. WHERE WAS GEORGE? AT 6:42 ???
     This is a composite timeline I cobbled together from the various
     pieces of evidence posted here and elsewhere.

     Note: As you read through this timeline, after hearing the 911 tapes,

     it becomes apparent that GZ isn’t giving his actual locations, nor
     reporting what is actually taking place.
     =================================================
     =================================================
     5:09:– Trayvon makes call lasting 81 minutes, ends at 6:30

     =================================================
     6:05:– Trayvon leaves home for store. (est. ~16m_walk)

     6:21:54 Trayvon is seen outside the store traveling
     from the East to the West to enter 7 Eleven

     6:24:32 Two minutes later Trayvon leaves the store
     but is not seen outside heading back East

     6:29:19 Trayvon is seen outside heading back East

     6:30:– Trayvon’s 5:09 call ends

     6:30:– Trayvon makes call lasting 13 minutes. ends 6:43

     6:38:– Is that Mark Osterman at the M&I bank? SP has
     taken the video into evidence.

     6:41:– Incoming call lasting 4 minutes ends at 6:45

     6:43:– Trayvon’s 6:30 call ends

     6:45:– Incoming 6:41 call ends

     6:45:– Trayvon makes call lasting 5 minutes ends at 6:50

     6:46 :– Trayvon makes call lasting 2 minutes ends at 6:48

     6:48:– 6:48 call ends

     6:49:– Incoming call lasting 4 minutes ends at 6:53

     6:50:– Trayvon’s 6:45 call ends.

     6:54:– At mailboxes (est. 25 MIN WALKING AT
     4.4ft/second = 6600 FEET
     Trayvon needed only ~13:04 to reach the
     mailboxes from 711.
     Or eta of ~6:42:19 @4.4/ft/sec. walking speed.

     6:54:– Incoming call lasting 18 minutes — ends 7:14:– ?

     This puts him easily and securely at the RATL mailboxes by
     6:54pm with ~564 feet remaining to home via the dog walk.
     A 2 minute 8 seconds walk.

     6:42:19 approx. At mailboxes: ~3452 feet from 711 @ 4.4ft/sec. 13min.

     7:04:– Incoming call last 4 minutes ends 7:08

     7:08:– 7:04 call ends

     7:09:34 George calls NEN to report suspicious
     person.

     7:10:22 GZ: “Now he’s just staring at me!”
     “It’s the clubhouse”

     7:10:32 GZ: “Yeah, now he’s coming towards me”

     7:10:37 GZ: “He’s got his hand in his waistband.:

     7:10:55 GZ: “Yup He’s coming to check me out”

     7:11:41 GZ: “SH– He’s running”

     7:11:51 Dispatch: “Are you following him?”

     7:11:59 GZ: “Yeah!”

     7:11:59 Dispatch: “Ok, we don’t need you to do that!”

     7:12:02 GZ: “Okay!”

     7:12:08 Dispatch: “What is your name?”

     7:12:– TM receives call.
     Phone records show this call ended at 7:16 p.m.
     Police arrived roughly a minute later.

     7:12:– TM tells DD man following, puts hoodie up.

     7:12:10 GZ: “George… He ran!”

     7:12:52 Dispatch: “What address are you parked in front of?”

     7:12:56 GZ: ” Um, I don’t know, it’s a cut through…”

     7:13:13 Dispatch: “Okay do you want to just meet with
     them right near the mailboxes then?”

     7:13:16 GZ: “Yeah that’s fine!”

     7:13:20 Dispatch: “Alright George, I’ll let them know to
     meet you around there, okay?”

     7:13:22 GZ: “Acutally could you have them , could you
     have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?”

     7:13:25 Dispatch: “Okay, yeah that’s no problem.”

     7:13:37 Dispatch: “You’re welcome!”

     7:13:39 GZ ends NEN call

     7:14:– TM’s 6:54 call ends

     7:16:– 7:12 call ends.
     —————————————————————————-
     7:16:59 Gunshot

410. After putting together a composite of the calls of GZ and TM, using the logs, It becomes obvious that GZ is not reporting things as they happened, but that he’s trying to tell a story and get the “facts” he wants recorded. The NEN call was a red herring, made to send everyone on a wild goose chase. Designed to conceal rather than illuminate what happened that night.

     Notice that “he ran” comes before TM even leaves the mailbox shelter, where we know he was when DD called him at 7:12. This led us to believe that TM was running south and that GZ took off moments later to chase him. Nothing could be further from the truth. Of course, GZ couldn’t know that TM would be explaining to DD that he was still staying at the mailboxes when he got the 7:12 call.

     So there was no chase! So what was George really doing during those several minutes that elapsed? The NEN call was part of the cover up.