Debating George Zimmerman Supporters Is Worthless

I’m not sure why but I decided to get my hands dirty with some Zimmerman supporters recently on Twitter. In doing so, the obnoxiousness spilled over to the comment section of the original blog posting.

This was a mistake on 2 fronts — 1) The “debates” returned little/no results… 2) There are a handful of other loose ends I’ve been trying to tie up regarding Trayvon Martin’s murder and engaging Zimmerman supporters wasted a decent amount of time.

So, let’s take a look at the defense Zimmerman supporters offer for their confessed murderer and my responses…

“Zimmerman’s injuries are proof that he had every right to protect himself under Stand Your Ground (or Self Defense).”

If Zimmerman was attacked by Trayvon Martin – and the attack was unprovoked – Stand Your Ground (or Self Defense) could be considered by Judge Lester. However, Stand Your Ground (or Self Defense) is not applicable in this case seeing that Zimmerman unlawfully assaulted, harassed, stalked, and preyed upon Trayvon Martin before the scuffle began. Meaning, you can’t unlawfully bring on a confrontation and then be protected by Stand Your Ground (or Self Defense). And, it’s worth noting, only Zimmerman (who is accused of lying/withholding information during the bond hearing) has stated that Trayvon Martin started the scuffle.

Stand Your Ground clearly states…

A person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.

Of course, Zimmerman’s minor injuries — a LIKELY (but unconfirmed) broken nose, no brain injury/concussion, head abrasions that required no bandage the night of the shooting and warm soapy water as treatment, etc. — don’t reflect an attack that would have resulted in imminent death or great bodily harm.

Moreover, a lack of injuries/DNA on both Zimmerman’s and Trayvon Martin’s hands plus witness statements indicate there was only a mild scuffle – at worst – leading up to the fatal shot.

“Since Trayvon was acting suspicious, Zimmerman had every right to see what the unarmed teenager walking home with some snacks was up to.”

What was Trayvon Martin doing that was suspicious? Ducking under an awning during a rainstorm isn’t suspicious behavior. Wearing a hoodie during a rainstorm isn’t suspicious behavior. Running during a rainstorm isn’t suspicious behavior. Running during a rainstorm while somebody has been eerily watching you from their vehicle isn’t suspicious behavior either.

So, what was suspicious — being a black teen in a gated community? I contend that if Trayvon Martin was a white male/female, Zimmerman never watches, reports, chases, or murders him.

“If Trayvon Martin was so scared, why didn’t he just go home and lock himself inside after running away from Zimmerman?”

Brief background: I’ve settled on 2 maps (update: 4 total maps now…these 2 from 2012 and these 2 from 2013) since my original posting on March 27, 2012.

Most Zimmerman supporters that blame Trayvon for his death because he wasn’t at home when the confrontation began have only seen (some version) of this map…

And, not this map (which lines up perfectly with Zimmerman’s call to police, DeeDee’s statement, Witness 2’s statement, and Brandy Green’s interview the day after the shooting)…

Update from 6/27/2013: Or these 2 additional maps from 2013…

Moreover, Trayvon’s body wasn’t found with a key on it. Was he locked out? Regardless, is it illegal to sit on your back porch, catch your breath, and talk on the phone to your friend after being chased by a creepy man? After watching a few Scream movies, I probably wouldn’t go inside my house either in fear the perpetrator/murderer would follow me inside.

“The 911 operator never told Zimmerman to stop chasing, stalking, harassing, preying upon, assaulting, etc. Trayvon Martin.”

This is one of the more baffling points Zimmerman supporters are trying to make. As everybody has heard, between the 2:24 – 2:28 mark of his 911 call, the following is said…

Operator: Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]

Operator: OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman: OK. [2:28]

The wind interference from Zimmerman running stops around the 2:43 mark of his call. So, he eventually stops running but not until 17 seconds after the operator tells him the Sanford Police Department doesn’t need him following Trayvon.

Note: The wind interference stopping only means Zimmerman stopped running. Meaning, especially as map 2 and Dee Dee suggests, Zimmerman continued his pursuit of his unarmed neighbor.

“The 911 operator never mentioned that Zimmerman should return to his vehicle.”

This is another baffling argument that Zimmerman supporters are trying to make…especially since Zimmerman confirms that he’ll meet the officers near the mailboxes.

Operator: OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]

Of course, shortly after the 3:43 mark, Zimmerman realizes he’ll need to end his unlawful vigilante pursuit of Trayvon if he returns to the vehicle. So, instead, Zimmerman offers a cellphone number that the responding officers can reach him at.

Zimmerman: Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]

Operator: OK, that’s no problem.

You can’t fault the operator for taking Zimmerman’s suggestion of having officers call his cellphone number since A) The operator has already told Zimmerman to stop following Trayvon at the 2:26 mark and B) Zimmerman was strangely giving horrible directions to his parked vehicle the entire call.

“Tracy Martin said it wasn’t Trayvon crying for help during the 911 call where the fatal shot was heard.”

This tidbit of info from Officer Christopher Serino comes in page 56 of the original Evidence Dump…

“On 2/28/2012 at 1030 hours, I met with Tracy S. Martin (next-of-kin) to the decedent, Trayvon Martin, and _________, at the Sanford Police Department 815 W. 13th Street. The purpose for this meeting was to provide the decedent’s next-of-kin with a status update of the progress of the investigation into the shooting death of his son, Trayon Martin.

In order to provide a better understanding to Mr. Martin as to why the individual who shot his son was not arrested and charged with homicide, I decided to allow Mr. Marlin to hear all six 911 calls received by the Seminole County Communications Center regarding the incident involving his son and George Zimmerman. In order to facilitate this, I escorted Mr. Martin and _________ from the interview room area to my work station desk. I played the recordings on my desktop, and upon playing the 911 call placed by_________ in which a voice is heard in the background yelling for help multiple times, I asked Mr. Martin if the voice calling for help was that of his son. Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded “no”, This encounter was not audio recorded, and no further questioning in the matter was conducted. Sgt. Leon Ceisla Was present during the playing of the 911 tapes for Mr. Martin.”

What’s suspect about the above passage?

1) The fact that the 911 audio recordings weren’t played in the investigation room.

2) The fact that Tracy Martin’s supposed admission wasn’t recorded.

3) Officer Serino’s choice of defensive/hostile words (underlined) like “decided” and “encounter.”

4) The fact that the calls were played for an emotionally impaired Tracy Martin only 2 days after Trayvon was killed.

Lest we forget, the FBI can’t (yet) confirm with 100% certainty who the person is crying for help:

As part of an analysis released this week, the FBI did not make a final determination either way, citing several reasons, including the fact they came during “an extreme emotional state,” that there weren’t enough words to make a good comparison and that the sound quality was low and distant.

But, 2 independent experts — and I presume eventually the FBI — have confirmed the cries for help did not come from Zimmerman:

“Zimmerman had a concealed firearms license and had every right to be armed.”

From the Neighborhood Watch Manual for the National Neighborhood Watch Program:

Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons…

Trayvon Martin would be alive if Neighborhood Watch rules followed:

National Sheriff’s Association Statement on the Neighborhood Watch Tragedy in Sanford, Florida:

What other arguments have you heard from Zimmerman supporters? Feel free to leave a comment (and your response)!

This is an excellent article from theGrio:

Trayvon Martin – 15 facts you need to know about the unarmed teen shot in Sanford, Fl by vigilante George Zimmerman

Note: The comment section for this posting has been disabled. This forum posting — see the comment section here — is where the conversation is continuing.