I Forget — Was Trayvon Martin Armed?

Of course not…


So, weed/gun pics mean what — besides absolutely nothing — to this case?

One day, I hope to figure out/understand why the MSM is covering the case as they have been. Meaning, they’ve literally reported nothing of importance yet…nothing. Until then, I guess the goal is to incite emotion/pageviews from both sides?

Bottom line: No matter how many gun/weed pics Trayvon Martin had on his phone, Zimmerman can’t win a self defense (or stand your ground) case if — leading up to the murder — it’s well known/documented that he committed an act of assault by chasing an unarmed teen walking home with skittles and iced tea all over a gated community.

Note: The comment section for this posting has been disabled. This BccList.com forum posting β€” see the comment section here β€” is where the conversation is continuing.

69 thoughts on “I Forget — Was Trayvon Martin Armed?

  1. SMH. Ugh, I was surprised that CNN published these photos. The fact that these were on the legal website was bad enough. I don’t remember the national news organizations publishing pictures of GZ with a beer bottle on his head from his myspace page. Yet, they’re perfectly willing to put up these very select pictures. What’s next? Maybe it’ll become perfectly ethical to publish pictures of teenagers of sexual assault wearing skimpy summer outfits?

    • Where are Zimmerman’s phone records (though I assume he was coy/clever enough to know how phone/email records can be used once you take another person’s life)?

      More importantly, where are the dash cam videos from the responding police vehicles?

      This is the type of evidence we need to see/hear about…not text messages from an unarmed teen that was killed while walking home from 7/11.

      • Agree, GZ’s phone records of that night would be much more interesting/relevant. However, there was only one text message that was shown in the extracted records as “unread” on TM’s phone dated Feb 26. It was at 7:08pm and it was redacted! I’m dying to know if that was DeeDee asking him “what happened? pick up!” These messages can’t be all of the messages that he had on his phone so I’m wondering how they were cherry picked. Note that many of those messages were extracted after having been deleted. I’d hate to know how people might reconstruct my life based on my deleted messages.

  2. What really get me is showing TM flipping the bird, I have a few photos of me doing the same thing. Also what is the up roar of him having a picture of guns. There are pictures of kids with guns available that promote kids with gun thanks to the NRA.

    • Exactly! I have numerous pictures of both guns and weed on my phone — am I guilty of something (other than hanging around people that legally possess guns and medical marijuana)?

      For what it’s worth, I think guns are silly (but pot isn’t).

    • Playing with guns and weed are worthy of a slap up side the head from mama and even a trip to juvie hall or military school, but TM had neither a gun or weed on him that night, and GZ’s not his mama nor a cop. He also wasn’t a psychic and couldn’t see those pictures/texts on TM’s phone that night, so we’re back at square one with the question “What made GZ think he could get out of his car and go running in the dark with a gun after a teenager?”

      • On another site, a post points out that the autopsy report says Trayvon has a tattoo on his RIGHT arm, yet in the pictures shown, the person O’Mara is pretending to be Trayvon has a tattoo on his LEFT arm (the fighting one and the middle finger one).

          • Nevermind — I continued on. Zimmerman may have lead a burglary ring inside the community under the cover of a neighborhood watch volunteer.

            It’s interesting that the crime/burglary rates have apparently dropped since Zimmerman’s been kicked out but the gated community is definitely under a microscope and/or in the spotlight.

            Maybe some surveillance videos from before Trayvon’s death — why are the clubhouse videos all that exist? — of the days/nights that burglaries were committed could shed some light?

        • OMG, you are so right, the autopsy report does say that there’s a tattoo on the right arm and on the left wrist. We can see the right arm tattoo in the picture of TM with his brother. That picture of the kid flipping the one middle finger has a very large tattoo on the left upper arm. Even so, what is that image really supposed to show anyway that would “help” the defense? I can understand using pictures of him standing up to show his height and physique near the time of the shooting. (insert sarcasm) Maybe those middle finger pictures are meant to show he’s got dextrous ninja-like fingers, prone to flipping the bird and capable of saying “What the eff’s your problem homey”? OOOO, the prosecution should be worried now! (end sarcasm)

          • Anti-Trayvon people on another site are saying that Trayvon took the middle finger picture of himself in the mirror and that’s why it’s reversed. What do you think?
            I did point out that the standing-at-a-fight picture wasn’t taken in a mirror and the tattoo is STILL on the LEFT arm. Have to see how those anti-Trayvonites respond.

            • What? If he took the picture of himself in the mirror, you’d see him holding the camera/phone! That argument defies the laws of optics. However, the kid does look awfully like TM though. And there’s been no public denial from the family about any of those photos being of TM. I hope it’s because they want to wait until the hearing or the trial to make fools of the defense for even trying to use those photos. If it isn’t him, then I wonder if the prosecution would bother to go find the doppleganger.

            • Oh, one of my favorite descriptions of this latest photo set in the news was that “The photos released by Zimmerman’s legal team appear to show Martin blowing smoke, riding a horse, and holding a gun.”
              You gotta love the high standard of journalism there. Of course, that wasn’t all in one picture, but that conjures images of a John Wayne, now doesn’t it? Well, what if GZ had encountered John Wayne?

            • Trayvon blowing smoke? Have they had the smoke analyzed to see what kind of smoke it really is? I’d hate to find out it was from say one of those electric cigarettes or some such.

              Welcome back into the breech NLME, for the ride into the valley of death with the 600. πŸ˜†

  3. Yes, media wants this to be another high emotion trial. No wonder they become less relevant each day.
    Good to see you getting back in the action, NLME.

  4. You’re BACK!! There’s no other blogger I have read who could keep the hounds at bay like you did?

  5. Hey NLME!!!!!!

    should we ask where you’ve been? man, you’ve been AWOL for so long. I do hope you’ve been okay.

    Whonoze set up a “bcc diaspora” area on his site, you’re very welcome to visit there too.
    http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/diaspora9/ is the one we’re just closing off now.

    This is getting close to the wire, just over 2 weeks to jury selection. 500 people have been summonsed as the pool of contenders.

  6. It seems that O’Mara told a false statement to the court about Trayvon videotaping his buddies beating up a homeless man. RS of the Orlando Sentinal pulled a May 31 article she wrote about the discrepancy until O’Mara could post a public apology about the faux pas. She then posted a kinder story about his “mistake” today. Unreal! His statement is on the GZLegal site.

  7. Hey, all! I’m happy the trial is starting to take place. What questions or information are you all hoping is presented at trial?

    Thoughts and prayers for both families as this will be a difficult time for both.

    • Many questions, but off the top of my head, “Who the heck was GZ calling 2 minutes after the shooting???”

      • Yes, I’m definitely interested in GZ’s phone records. I am also interested if W6, W14, and/or W19 will state if they did or did not hear someone shout “shut the fuck up” and/or “you’re gonna die tonight, MF.” Those were the people who went outside around the time GZ described those words being used, but no one thus far stated hearing anything of the sort.

        • Of course they didn’t hear those words. GZ may have gotten away with just saying they struggled for the gun and it went off, but his attempt to thugify TM who had no motive or prior history of being so aggressively violent is going to do him in. We’ll have to see what the jury will believe of all this.

          • So far, listening to the potential jurors has made me sick. Some just seem way too excited to get on this case. I always fear the stealth juror. I hope they are able to weed out those with an agenda or obvious bias. I’m waiting for the potential juror who states, “I know about both individuals ‘dirty laundry,’ and I don’t give a fuck about it! Tell me about 2/26/12. Both sides, present all your relevant, admissable info then I’ll decide.” At this point, it seems like people keep saying they don’t really know much, but then list x,y, and z about the case. TM and GZ both deserve jurors who will be fair and willing to look at and determine the credibility and weight of all the information. People who can and will make logical inferences, but not leaps, and will follow the law. I hope those jurors will be found.

            • I had the same exact thoughts/feelings. We couldn’t even see the prospective jurors faces but could tell they were lying/trying to get on the case. My stomach hurt after day 1 — I had no idea our judicial system was THIS screwed — and I had to stop listening/watching.

            • wsi – I’m not a parent, but this year I became an aunt. I don’t want my beautiful nephew to live in a world where we have a bunch of armed people marching in the streets and fear is the norm and ingrained into every citizen. Arming teachers is one step in that direction. I think there are more reasonable safety measures that can be taken rather than an armed civilian in every classroom.

            • Congrats! Being an aunt is great! You get to play with the kid and send him home at the end of the day, good position to be in. Regarding guns, you can’t trust some people with it in their own home (how many kids have had accidental shootings?) and like with GZ you can’t trust some with it in public.

            • I may personally have no interest in owning or carrying a gun, but I respect the rights of others who wish to do so lawfully. I just see more negatives than positives coming from the solution presented there.

    • Hey!

      Amongst many other things, I’m interested in phone/email records, Taaffe’s role, location of parked truck (before it was moved of course…obstruction of justice), how the defense can possibly say Zimmerman wasnt causing fear in an unarmed teen running away from him, etc.

      • “how the defense can possibly say Zimmerman wasnt causing fear in an unarmed teen running away from him, etc”

        I think GZ already tried to answer that question in the Hannity interview. (insert sarcasm here). TM wasn’t running away from him, “it was more like skipping”. Skipping teenagers are happy, not scared right? But be careful, because any minute they might decide to turn around and beat you to death for no apparent reason.

        • Yeah, that Hannity interview is going to seal Zimmerman’s fate.

          “Mr Zimmerman: Why did you change your tone about following/pursuing/running after the unarmed teen — thus causing fear and a chase — after months upon months of recorded calls and interviews?”

          Can’t imagine O’Mara letting GZ get on the stand no matter how bad he wants the spotlight.

  8. http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0613/states_17_discovery_redacted_exhibits_redacted.pdf
    Here is :
    1.GZ’s Fight Club Contract,
    2.Letter of denial for police academy
    3.Phone records for 2/26/12.
    Please scroll down as previously only the itemized list was provided.

    This is the actual contract GZ signed to train in MMA, boxing, submission, kickboxing. There is no pool, normal exercise equipment at this club. This is a SERIOUS FIGHT CLUB. As such, I imagine steroids are sold behind the counter. Remember how concerned he was about Shellie getting his computer and bag from O’Mara.Perhaps Steroids were either on his computer or in his bag.

    The Fight Club requires a waiver as noted on p. 2 as there is real physical contact resulting in real physical injuries and is a very real possibility.

    There was a drastic body change from 2/26/12 to just two mths.later, I mean much smaller before the weight gain. My feeling has always been “roid rage” even his voice was different.

    The fight O’Mara said TM engaged in looks like a you tube put on as there are no punches, another car stops, and TM says ” we need a backdrop”.It wasn’t even between two homeless men but clearly two teens pretending to brawl. Finally, one kid just pedals away. You can hear Trayvon’s high pitched laughter which further shows his voice pitch was still prepuberty and it was his high voice heard on 911 call.

    I just don’t understand why O’Mara wanted to highlight Trayvon’s fighting when his client trained as a real MMA, submission fighter. Did O’Mara not know GZ had been training as a real badass? Did he miss seeing the payments to this “number 1 Fight Club in Central Florida”? Located 11.5 miles from GZ’s home and further than more than a few normal exercise gyms. GZ’s doesn’t even advertise itself as am” gym”…

  9. Also, note the phone is in Robert Zimmerman’s name and identification lists DOB as 12/25/1990. It has 703 as area code but I believe Robert Jr.was older, GZ DOB is 1984. If anyone can decipher these calls, it would be much appreciated. There’s a 4 hr. call around 8pm but I just can’t decipher info.

    • What a classy guy! Lol. Nope, people like that don’t give a fuck about anyone that isn’t just like them. They are only trying to get support and $$$ from people just like them.

  10. Where is everybody? It’s June 18, and the last post on this site was June 14. On the Diaspora site, the last post was June12.
    I enjoy going to both sites and reading the variety of opinions. Come back, posters!

    • Hey! I’m sure this blog will pick up a bit when the actual trial starts, but I’m not sure why the comments slowed over at whonoze’s blog; I think he may approve comments manually, so he may not be free to approve pending comments.

      Have you been keeping up with the jury selection process at all?

      • It’s slow here because many people are over at the Leatherman’s blog, which has been active “Live” through the recent proceedings and getting well over 1000 posts a day. If anyone wants of daily “summaries”, that’s the go to place now. However, I don’t post on that blog and quite frankly don’t care to. I haven’t had much time really, so any time I do have, it’s spent catching snippets of the live proceedings. While I am curious about the final makeup of the jury, all of these other people they’re parading through the court right now are not really of interest to me. I’m actually abhorred and quite embarrassed at some of the bloggers’ comments regarding the potential jurors, irrespective of their views. The newspapers are even listing descriptions of jurors like their age, race and sometimes their professions etc. The court is trying their best to protect these people’s identities in check, but it’s gotta be terrifying up there. We really don’t need people in cyberspace trashing them. I’m saving my comments for when what I consider the “actual” trial starts, that is, with real witness testimonies.

    • They’re not gone, they’re still receiving the messages, but on other blogs they’ve become involved, so they won’t post back here until they read something that provokes them to respond.

      Right now all eyes are on jury selection, to see if a stealth juror makes it on to the jury and find out whether or not they can identify him or her.

      My guess is there are quite a few who might welcome revisiting the evidence, with an eye to seeing what might be presented to the jury during trial.

  11. Will the state be allowed to respond to West’s motion about the hearsay statements before JDN rules?

    W5 and W16 were outside almost immediately after the shot. MC stated that she witnessed GZ messing with the body; I believe she essentially desribed it as frisking TM, which included what appeared to her as GZ reaching into his pockets. She then tells of GZ pacing with what she describes as a look that gave her the impression he knew he fucked up. The state should be able to argue that from that moment GZ had the time and motive to concoct a story knowing police were minutes away and these women may have heard or seen something.

    In addition, if GZ really did see the three witnesses outside before the shot, that’s more time and more reason to concoct a story that could fit with any potential witnesses.

    • As I understand it the judge will need to look at the complete set of circumstances surrounding these statements, to determine if they qualify as “excited utterances” or not.

      The facts show that gz did not act like a person who had been engaged in mortal combat, immediately following the shot. He acted like a person who was cool and collected enough to begin altering the evidence, and searching for weapons he could add to his story, as opposed to having them be discovered as unused.

      A person who had just survived an attack they believed might take their life would not be concerned with such minor details as what the victim had in his possession, he’d be perfectly willing to let the police find that out. Most especially if he had already uttered that he did not think his shot had killed the victim.

      Although he claims that the victim was still moving about and cursing, he doesn’t withdraw from the body and keep his distance, thereby defending his firearm from being taken. Most likely such a person would step back and hold the subject at gunpoint, secure in the knowledge that he could fire again, if the need should arise, before the subject could attack again. He would clearly be too shaken to be concerned about searching the victim or trying to discover his possessions. Only someone in “cover up mode” would do such a thing as alter the evidence and search the body.

      Finally none of his claims, made immediately after the shooting can be confirmed. More than likely, since people are unable to speak, when the lungs are even subjected to minor distress (like ingesting liquids) clearly a puncture lung is not going to let a person say anything at all. Since his only focus and concern would be on catching his next breath. Which clearly puts gz in “contrivance formulation” and “cover up mode”, such that there are no “excited utterances” that are not contrived.

      The states motion should therefore be granted!

  12. So, JDN ruled against audio expert testimony coming in at trial…

    My thoughts? They don’t need no stinkin experts! I believe a jury would be bored and frustrated if they had to listen to a battle of the experts. Just ask where is the nasality, gurgling, broken screams, and muffling of someone with a broken nose, swallowing blood while being beaten and having their head bounced on the ground then smothered. Just ask how someone who is losing oxygen and going unconcious is screaming loud and clear. Just ask why Trayvon’s loud and angry voice shouting any of those threats George claimed were not heard on the tape or by a single witness. Just ask if it makes sense that in the time George was pulling his firearm, aiming, and making sure he didn’t blow off his own hand that he is the one screaming, but the 17 year old who was about to be shot didn’t make so much as a peep. Just ask if it makes sense that the moment the shot is fired the screams cease entirely when George claimed he was still screaming after the shot. The jury will understand that none of that makes sense. The State will argue that both yelled for help. It will be their point that George only yelled for help in detaining someone he assumed to be a suspect. To believe George was screaming at the moment the gun went off is just plain ridiculous when all the witnesses stated it stopped the very instant the gun was fired, but George is claiming the screaming and struggle continued when not a single witness agrees.

    Plus, just ask George’s buddy Mark about George’s claim that the FDLE determined it was his voice with 98% certainty. LOL. Did everyone forget about that? IIRC, that was one of the gems from his book.

    Also, who comes across more genuine, TM or RZ Sr? You have TM who says he couldn’t be 100% certain it was his son when he first heard it because he had never had to hear his son scream for his life before and he only heard the audio once on computer speakers; that sounds more genuine to me than RZ Sr claiming it’s absolutely George because it sounds just like him and GZ screamed like that all the time. Plus, you have RZ Sr at the bond hearing that George’s screams wouldn’t be muffled even if he was being smothered.

    Long winded, but this is why I believe the experts just aren’t that important in this instance.

    • I’m thinking now that the ruling is a blessing to the State. They would have looked ridiculous if they entered in Reich’s report to evidence saying he heard certain phrases that no one else heard. By the way, when did GZ claim he was screaming AFTER the shot? I don’t remember that at all.

      • He claimed it in one of his retellings of what happened after the shot. He said something along the lines of still calling for help and shouting at Trayvon to stop and don’t move because Trayvon was still struggling with him and cussing at him.

        • Oh ok, I never took it as “shouting”. In his reenactment, he said he was asking (or maybe “calling”) the neighbor for help. Regardless, in his reenactment, he was so matter of fact about having the frame of mind to continue the business of apprehending a suspect. the exchange that he reported having with cellphone Jon didn’t happen the way the witness described it in terms of where they both were when they first encountered each other. (down where the body was verus up by the T). Now, is it the case of the witness omitting some details or did GZ make it all up? The prosecution will have a field day with GZ if he ever makes it to the stand.

  13. I have a theory about the path TM took to elude GZ. We assume that TM ran to the T to get away. I think TM ran left at the bend of TTL towards RVC around the first building and possibly the second building w/GZ chasing him w/his flashlight. GZ temporarily lost him but confronted him at the T with TM coming up the path. This explains w at corner hearing arnd bend and dropped flashlight. TM was bumped or GZ grabbed him and TM fleeing towards home south to end where he died. explains the time lapse and way evidence landed and witn

    • “F-ing punks.. These a-holes always get away”

      Whoa, first words from the prosecution in opening statements.

      • I wish I wasn’t watching on HLN. Too many pauses!

        • I am wondering why West is giving the opening statement? He’s been kinda off the last week during jury selection. He had an objection that was sustained for starting to tell a story about himself. Now he’s telling a Knock knock joke? I’m seeing mistrial already based on insanity of his lawyer.

          • Only a few min in, and West already lying. The cut through was a common place for people to enter and exit when walking.

      • Few details mentioned by the prosecution in opening statement that I thought would be of interest to cross check or add to our own facts:

        1) GZ’s NEN call ended at 7:13:43pm
        2) TM’s call with DeeDee (he said her real name in court, I won’t mention it here but it is not the same girl as the treepers had been doxing all those months) ended at 7:15:44pm
        3) TM’s hands were under his chest (described dramatically as “clutching” his chest) according to the witness’ cell phone picture right after the shooting, in clear conflict with GZ’s claim that he had spread out TM’s hands.
        4) They have NO witness that saw the incident from beginning to end (so I guess our hope of such a witness was not found).
        5) He mentioned a witness though that saw them struggling upright, and I think he said at the beginning. I can’t figure out who this witness would have been among the ones that we heard statements from already. In any case, that is in clear conflict with GZ saying he was knocked down to the ground immediately.

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