George Zimmerman Video Reenactment Lies and Interview Discrepancies

For some odd reason, Zimmerman’s defense released all this info…

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/30-george-zimmerman-s-statements

I’m guessing the more info Zimmerman’s defense team releases, the more messaging they feel they can control? I’m not quite sure but nothing from the above link is flattering and/or helps their client’s cause.

So, I’ll start with the lies and discrepancies seen in Zimmerman’s video reenactment — it can be accessed here:

I’ll eventually get to the lies and discrepancies from Zimmerman’s interviews and statements. I’ll keep the comment section of this posting open but please try to cite only lies/discrepancies with Zimmerman’s video reenactment, interviews, statements, etc. If you’d like to comment on something else, the following blog posting is wide open!

http://bcclist.com/2012/05/14/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-court-proceedings-and-trial/

The major issues with Zimmerman’s video reenactment:

1) Zimmerman’s not able to effectively explain how nearly all the crime scene evidence and Trayvon’s dead body ended up so far south of the T. You can clearly see the investigators wanted this answer but instead Zimmerman starts walking south and “can’t remember” how he ended up where he did south of the T.

“I think I stumbled and I fell down.”

“I think I was trying to push him away from me.”

Of course, unless Zimmerman was “attacked” from the north (he stated Trayvon supposedly came from the south behind some bushes), there was no reason for Zimmerman to have ever been an inch south of the T.

Note: I assume Zimmerman recants the bushes comment from his initial report since he conveniently “didn’t see exactly where he (Trayvon) came from” during the reenactment video.

2) Zimmerman tries to show investigators that his scuffle with Trayvon Martin occurred behind 1211 Twin Tree Lane. The correct location was one house further south behind 1221 Twin Tree Lane.

Why short change how far he and the unarmed teen were from the T? Because, as mentioned above, Zimmerman had about 24 hours and I assume a few conversations with his father (a retired judge) to figure out he shouldn’t have been even an inch south of the T if he was simply returning to his vehicle when attacked from behind. Meaning, the closer to the T, the better for Zimmerman’s defense.

3) Frank Taaffe stated his friend was way further down the path (to the south) than what Zimmerman’s reenactment video suggests…

4) After Zimmerman’s 911 call ended minutes before, he should have been back in his Honda Ridgeline waiting for police as instructed — so, not anywhere near the T — when he was attacked.

Per Zimmerman’s video reenactment, let’s dissect his version of the happenings via a map (of course) and note some more discrepancies…

5) The non emergency dispatcher asked Zimmerman to report any other suspicious activity around the 1:34 mark of his call to police. If we believe anything Zimmerman has said – that’s been extremely tough so far during this entire case – he supposedly started following (or stalking, harassing, and preying upon) Trayvon Martin in his vehicle at this point. So, to reiterate, Zimmerman wouldn’t have moved his vehicle supposedly parked on the north side of the clubhouse at any point before the 1:34 mark of his call since he was giving a play-by-play of Trayvon’s front side and wasn’t asked to keep an eye on the unarmed teenager.

It would have taken Trayvon (almost exactly) 60 seconds to walk from where Zimmerman’s car was supposedly parked on the north side of the clubhouse to where he supposedly starts running (per Zimmerman’s call/reenactment). So, if Zimmerman left his parking spot at the 1:34 mark of his call – Note: I don’t hear anything that proves the car was in gear/following Trayvon – he would have seen Trayvon starting to run around 60 seconds later or around the 2:34 mark of his call.

When did Zimmerman first report seeing Trayvon run? The 2:08 mark of his call to police…about 34 seconds into Trayvon’s walk and his supposed vehicular pursuit.

60 seconds (time it would have taken Trayvon to walk away from Zimmerman’s vehicle before he started running)

- 34 seconds (the math from Zimmerman’s call)

= A 26 second gap.

6) Frank Taafee stated Zimmerman’s truck was parked facing west when he got out to pursue Trayvon (so, not east as Zimmerman indicated during his reenactment)…

Given 2) and 6) above, I assume O’Mara is going to have to trash Taaffe since the reenactments Zimmerman and he gave don’t even remotely coordinate. Given Taaffe’s nature, that may not play out too well for the defense.

7) MOST DAMNING: At the 6:09 mark of his reenactment video, Zimmerman stated Trayvon circled his eastward facing truck sometime after the teen took off behind the houses. So, this reappearance of Trayvon would have been after the 2:08 mark of Zimmerman’s call to police. Without being said, after Zimmerman sees Trayvon run at the 2:08 mark of his call, he never mentions him reappearing.

I’m not sure as to the significance of this fabricated story but I didn’t include Trayvon circling Zimmerman’s car in his reenactment map because it’s literally impossible and a flat out lie.

Note: The comment section for this posting has been disabled. This BccList.com forum posting — see the comment section here — is where the conversation is continuing.

349 thoughts on “George Zimmerman Video Reenactment Lies and Interview Discrepancies

  1. First of all, thanks for the link/s; it prevents me having to spend hours downloading the video from the defence’s web page.

    I try to keep an open mind when viewing any evidence, but Zimmerman’s video re-enactment is suspicious in many ways.
    • After Zimmerman shoots, he stipulates that Trayvon vocalises ‘You got me’ or something to that effect. Then Zimmerman gets on top of the presumably now dead Trayvon’s back and moves his arms out perpendicular to his sides. This is highly suspicious, since Trayvon was found with his arms bent, underneath him, within the police officer’s written statement. Supposedly, Zimmerman wanted the police to think that he was still in imminent danger for his life, stating that he thought Trayvon was still alive. An outright fabrication of the truth AND contrary to the physical evidence.
    • The witness coming from the back of their house, which Zimmerman referred to, stated that they were going to call the police and that Zimmerman asked them to help him restrain Trayvon. This is yet another fabrication, since the witness stipulated that Zimmerman appeared annoyed and requested no help, implying that he already knew that Trayvon was dead and therefore, not in imminent danger.
    • As you stated, Trayvon’s supposed confrontational ‘attack’ should have been nearer to the T junction of the concrete pathway, NOT north of the junction; even better nearer to his truck. This suggests that Zimmerman walked/ran towards Trayvon, which implies HE confronted Trayvon and NOT vice versa. Therefore, in this respect, the Stand Your Ground statute would not be applicable in Zimmerman’s defence; regardless if the consequence of such actions resulted in the DEFENSIVE attack to Zimmerman by Trayvon. The legislators made an intended provision within the statute to still flee from a confrontation, if possible. Evidently, Zimmerman had every opportunity to do just that, prior to the injuries he sustained within the subsequent DEFENSIVE attack.
    • Zimmerman’s statement that Trayvon said ‘….you’re going to die tonight’ upon seeing Zimmerman’s gun, is yet another fabrication, since Zimmerman stated that once he fired the shot, Trayvon lifted his arms and stated ‘You got me’, or something to that effect, thinking that the shot missed and that Trayvon was giving up. Firstly, an innocent 17 year old young man would have said this in the first instance IF he’d first seen the gun, NOT after the shot was fired. Remember, Trayvon Martin is not a ‘gangster’ or ‘hoodlum’ who is used to such experiences, as is evident from his girlfriend’s plea for Trayvon to run from Zimmerman. Therefore, wouldn’t Trayvon be covered under the Stand Your Ground statute and tragically killed instead of his original attacker i.e. Zimmerman?
    • IF Zimmerman was consistently ‘screaming’ for help and we maintain the previous premise, wouldn’t a DEFENSIVE attacker stop attacking him and flea? The witnesses stated that they heard someone ‘screaming’ for help. Firstly, no MAN would be described as screaming, since this denotes a high pitch nature; if they’d said shouting for help, then I’d accept this as a description of a MAN/YOUNG MAN, but screaming denotes a YOUNG MAN only would be capable of such a high tone, ruling Zimmerman out completely AND is corroborated by two independent forensic sound technicians.
    • It depends what the forensics have discovered, but I believe that a gunshot ‘tearing’ open the heart would instantly kill someone i.e. Trayvon would not have been able to make a statement after the gunshot like ’You got me’. If this is the case and Trayvon was found with his arms underneath his supine body, and Zimmerman was under him when he shot Trayvon, one would logically assume that Trayvon would have collapsed on top of Zimmerman. However, the physical evidence clearly states Trayvon’s body position; if Zimmerman crawled from underneath Trayvon, wouldn’t at least one of Trayvon’s arms be OUT/AWAY from underneath his body? This is of course complete conjecture and reliant of the forensics.

    Of course, subsequent and recent issues surrounding the perjury of Shellie Zimmerman plus her and George’s taped phone conversations from his initial imprisonment, bring all of Zimmerman’s statements into disrepute, which really does not surprise me in the least; instead, such actions tend to bolster my suppositions.

    • “The witnesses stated that they heard someone ‘screaming’ for help. Firstly, no MAN would be described as screaming, since this denotes a high pitch nature; if they’d said shouting for help, then I’d accept this as a description of a MAN/YOUNG MAN, but screaming denotes a YOUNG MAN only would be capable of such a high tone, ruling Zimmerman out completely AND is corroborated by two independent forensic sound technicians.”

      Thank you for the comment! If you check out Serino’s Interview Part 3 from 2/29 at the 17:17 mark, you’ll hear Zimmerman say the voice screaming for help “doesn’t even sound like me.” Hmmmm.

    • ‘Remember, Trayvon Martin is not a ‘gangster’ or ‘hoodlum’ who is used to such experiences, as is evident from his girlfriend’s plea for Trayvon to run from Zimmerman.”

      Well you need to remember that that is the whole purpose of this little narrative. Spoil sport!

  2. Your point #7 isn’t that simple since it’s not clear that “shit he’s running” correlates to GZ’s re-enactment statement regarding TM disappearing down the rear sidewalk before the alleged ‘circling.’ I have the feeling this claim from the re-enactment will not parse with the physical evidence of the call when all is said and done. But I think a lot more math and possible different meanings of various phrases will have to be explored.
    I would also ask everyone to refer to times in GZ’s police call by the actual clock time, since we established that concretely, and not by the elapsed time (e.g. 2:08 = 7:11:42).

  3. A discrepency between the re-enactment and GZs statement to Ofc. Singleton.

    He tells Singleton that TM punched him in face repeatedly, “He just started punching me in the face… I couldn’t see. I couldn’t breathe.. He was waling on my head and then I started yelling “help.” When I started yelling for help, he grabbed my head, and he started hitting my head…. into the sidewalk.”

    My the time he does the re-enactment the next day, it’s apparent his face was not badly beaten. From the scale and resolution of the re-enactment video, no facial injuries are visible. He may have a deviated septum, but the image is too low-res to be clear on that. But there’s no major swelling, bruises, black eyes etc. visible. And in the re-enactment he only mention Martin striking him with one punch: the initial blow to the nose that GZ states knocked him to the ground. From then on, he says TM grabbed his head and slammed it to the sidewalk.

    He also tells Singleton that he went right down from the blow to the nose and GZ got right on top of him. However, in the re-enactment, he places that first punch as occuring up on the horizontal sidewalk, and says he staggered to the south, pushing Martin away, until finally falling to his back behind 1211 TTL, still one unit North of where all the witnesses place the struggle.

    By Monday at the latest I will post a YouTube video of the re-enactment intercut with notes, and inconsistencies to the Police Call the SPD interviews, and maybe some of the witness 911 calls.

    • I haven’t checked out Zimmerman’s statement to Singleton yet but what you’ve mentioned are major discrepancies.

      I just got through all of Serino’s 2/29 interviews while driving. He gives Zimmerman plenty of “outs.” Yes, I realize (and so did Zimmerman) that these “outs” could be detrimental to his defense one day but you can’t say Serino didn’t provide Zimmerman with several opportunities to clarify and/or add details.

      Has anybody noted that Zimmerman laughs off responses to incredibly important questions that he definitely shouldn’t be laughing off?

      For example…

      “Did you plan to apprehend Trayvon after you started following him?”

      And…

      “Do you have anything against black people?”

      There has to be a psychological tell here, correct?

    • Whonoze,

      This is indeed one of the big discrepancies we discussed in a previous post. Actually, during the reenactment, GZ suddenly look puzzled. He kind of realizes that his story requires the 2 to rush further south. So, he deviates from his initial story adding the staggering. However, he still can’t fill the whole gap between the T and the place of the shooting.

    • Exactly re the view from day two. Previously, the Z-support relied on black eyes by day two. On day two, there are no black eyes. The exaggerated claims of life-threatening injuries as “proof” of attack are non-existent (if pictures of injuries of any sort are indicative of who attacked who is to hold up in a real/reasonable mind).

  4. Another item from the re-enactment in GZ’s favor. GZ says TM made a move with his hands that he interpreted as reaching for his pistol, but missing it. GZs says that was the point he draw and fired. Thus, he does not have to explain why there is no DNA from Martin on his gun. In the re-enactent he also does not say Martin had his arms pinned under his legs, so he does not have to explain how he got his arm free to draw the weapon. He does say Martin was aware of the gun, so he hasn’t accounted for his ability to do a quick-draw and put a bullet directly into a young man’s heart while he is about to pass out from a concussion without that young man, who is supposedly in a controlling superior physical position attempting to deflect the gun.

    So the story seems to be that after beating GZ into a near coma, TM just let GZ unholster his Kel-Tec aim right for his chest, and blow a hole through his right ventricle on a direct front-to-back line. But, not knowing the autopsy results, GZ could have come up with a variety of more damning claims…

    • But he DOES have explain how TM would have been made aware of the gun. Unless TM is a 6+ armed human extraordinnair/super-teen, I can’t see how he’d have enough arms to smother, punch, use two hands (and arms) to slam head AND use his free arms/hands to body search/feel up Zimmerman for a gun. How does this help Zimmerman?

      Hint: Zimmerman’s account is all lies and reasonable doubt is achieved.

    • This is according to the reenactment. During his interview with Singleton on Feb 26th, he had a different story…

      GZ: ” When I slid, my jacket and my shirt came up. And when he said ‘you’re gonna die tonight’ I felt his hand go down on my side. And I THOUGHT, he was going for my firearm. So, I grabbed it immediately. AND AS HE BANGED MY HEAD AGAIN, I pulled down my firearm and shot him.”

      Now, you have to imagine TM, on his knees, straddling GZ who is on his back on the ground, and with TM positioned low enough to let the gun visible and accessible to both of them, and still high enough to allow banging GZ’s head on the sidewalk with just one hand (his right hand presumably), and the other hand toward on GZ’s right flank.

      In the reenactment, GZ makes a move to show that he actually locked TM’s harm preventing him from reaching for the gun.

      So now, you have to picture GZ being straddled by TM who has one on his forehead [this is the only way I can picture the situation]. GZ has his arm in his hand but he keeps his harm against his side in order to lock TM’s hand. This is when GZ does the magic break-dance move that allows him to unholster to gun and shoot TM straight in his heart in intermediate range.

      During the reenactment, GZ tries to do that magic move again. However, you can see that the shot should have logically hit TM in contact range on the flank or at the side of chest.
      Indeed, with one hand locked on the side and the other hand on GZ’s head, TM could only be leaning over close to GZ’s body. Then, his locked harm must have been an obstacle for GZ’s right hand.

      For GZ to shot straight in TM’s heart while being forced to keep his right harm against his own body, he has to wrap his fore-harm around TM’s locked harm, place the gun between him and TM and fire the gun.

      • What struck me as odd – when he describes how he shoots Trayvon, the actual physical act in the CVSA video, he makes no mention of any restrictions the ground would cause him. None. He is very vague as well, shifting his story of how he actually pulled the gun and shot during that portion of the interview. My conclusion, he was either standing or on top when he shot Trayvon.

  5. This is a great site to check out http://blog.eyesforlies.com/.

    It’s training for law enforcement to spot deception and it has a breakdown of zimmerman’s reenactment video. It’s very informative. Here is a snippet from the blog:

    George Zimmerman:

    I was still on the phone with a non-emergency and I started walking …..down this way….and …..because I didn’t see a street sign here, but I knew if I could go straight through that that is Retreat View Circle, and I could give him an address because he said just give me the address of the house in you are in front of and there are no addresses because these are the back of the houses (When Zimmerman says this, right next to him are the front of units—and he flat ignored that). So I walk straight through here, and……I didn’t see him ….at all. I was walking …..and I was still on the phone with EM… ah, non-emergency.

    If Zimmerman was looking to get an address, I would have expected him to get the address at the end of the path on Retreat View Circle, but if you notice he never did–even though he walked all the way there. That speaks volumes. It is my belief that Zimmerman was still looking for Martin–still in hot pursuit but says that he was looking for an address to cover his true intent. His words “didn’t see him…at all” stand out to me.

    I got to…. about …..(walking) …..here, and I got to about here, and I had a flashlight with me. The flashlight was dead, though. And I looked around and I didn’t see anybody, and I told non-emergency, I said “You know what? He’s gone.

    Again these words show Zimmerman’s intent was to seek out and find Martin, without question. It wasn’t to get an address. Zimmerman was clearly asked not to follow Martin, but there is no doubt he was still in pursuit.

    He’s not even here…so …………I still though I could use their address, so I walked all the way through.

    Notice the long pause when he said, “he’s not even here….so…..” Notice the address is an afterthought? Very telling.

    And………. I actually walked all the way to the street and I was going to give them this address and they said, “Well if he’s not there, do you still want a police officer?” And I said yes and………..and they said, “Do you still want a police officer” and I said yes and they said, “Are you following …?”

    Notice how Zimmerman says he “actually” walked all the way to the street. Yes, he did–in pursuit of Martin–not for an address.The fact that Zimmerman has to repeat his story is a red flag for me. He does it several times (below too). People often do this to remember–to get more time when they change facts. If his goal was to get the address as he says, he would have stuck to that–especially when he asked the police to come in spite of knowing where Martin was.

    • “..there are no addresses because these are the back of the houses (When Zimmerman says this, right next to him are the front of units—and he flat ignored that.”

      Ah, he explains this. He knows the next one is RVC because it’s the one he lives on which loops all the way around the estate. The one he’s ON with fronts of houses showing, is Twin Trees, which he claims to have forgotten the name of, so just a number from there wouldn’t help. (Oh apart from it being actually where his truck is, whereas the number from RVC on the other side won’t help the cops find him at all). When challenged on not knowing Twin Trees (Serino’s interview #3) he claims a bad memory and having ADHD, first mention of this ever).

      Yeah he’s trying to mix in needing to get an address (his excuse for being there) and “not seeing him at all” as his excuse for being jumped from behind.

      On Serino Tape #3 they ask him about this and he says he was NOT FOLLOWING. “just going the same way”. Policewoman adds “at the same time”. He’s also using the “not seeing him at all” to “prove” he was not following. Yeah well, okay, let’s get technical, you can only follow someone you can see. So he wasn’t following. Quite true. He was SEARCHING FOR.

      • Exactly. That argument will always fail as long as we have basic understanding of parallel routes.

      • In the video reenactment when they are parked in front of the clubhouse, he mentions Twin Trees Lane. During the audio interview he had forgotten the name again.

    • Yet, in one of the interviews he claims to know everyone in this neighborhood…but you couldn’t think to knock on one door for the street name. It was only 7pm…not wee hours of the night!

      • Tina, it would be so fun if they could bring every resident into court from that complex and have GZ name them all! HAHA. I mean, if he says he knows em all, he must, right? ;P “I have a bad memory, I can’t remember details that incriminate me, sorry, but I do remember the name of every single resident in this complex!” HARHAR. Contradictions with lack of logic presented to you by GZ!

      • Such a good point by you both. Did Zimmerman even knock on Taaffe’s door that night? After all, he gave Taaffe’s address as the location he first of observed Travon Martin’s presence. Why didn’t coward Zimmerman just park and go knock on Taaffee’s door? Surely that would have scared off any would be home invader, yes?

        @question everything…

        It would be awesome to have every neighbor (including those who proclaimed they were offended by George Zimmerman’s tactics) line up to testify in court and have George Zimmerman identify them.

  6. This is the first time I heard about TM covering GZ’s nose and mouth. If the immediated blow caused GZ not to be able to defend himself against this kid, there should have been some blood on his nose (as we saw from the snapshot taken at the scene).

    If TM did, in fact, have GZ’s nose and mouth covered, there would be blood and DNA all over TM’s hands and smeared on GZ’s shirt as TM felt down GZ’s exposed shirt to grab for the gun. GZ said he caught TM’s hand with his upper arm tightly pinned against his body and then went for his gun, which is also impossible because the elbow must bend in order to retrieve anything from the waist.

    • We had the nose/mouth covered smothering ages ago, from one of the surrogates, I think his brother.

      Serino interview Tape #3 is the best to listen to. That’s where they play back his non-emergency call and ask him, phrase by phrase, to explain where he was at the time.

      They play back all the screams from the 911 witness.
      * He says “that doesn’t even sound like me”
      * he is unable to tell at which point he was being smothered (as there are no smothered-sounding cries for help).

      “..which is also impossible because the elbow must bend in order to retrieve anything from the waist…”
      Watch that bit a few times over. He doesn’t show his own gun arm bending much at all. The movement is AT MOST pulling a gun from pants pocket (but then Trayvon could not have seen it). It is much more like RAISING an arm already holding a gun.

    • “This is the first time I heard about TM covering GZ’s nose and mouth.”

      What, you haven’t been hearing all about Octo-Trayvon, who used both his hands to bounce Zimmerman’s skull on the sidewalk, while using both of his other hands to pummel him MMA style, while using both of his other other hands to cover Zimmerman’s nose and mouth to suffocate him, while using both of his other other other hands to keep Zimmerman’s arms pinned?

      Man, where you been?

      unitron

      • LOL! Indeed. Don’t forget that this average black youth had x-ray vision which could see Zimmerman’s unyet pulled or undisplayed or unbrandished gun and knew exactly where to reach for it.

  7. I see that the Zimmerman defense team has removed the video re-enactment from their site. The video has also been removed from WFTV. The defense team must have realized the all too many discrepancies I presume. I’m only finding small pieces of the video in news stories.

    Wait, someone uploaded to YT. This YT user has several uploads relating to the case.

  8. Most importantly, George Zimmerman voluntarily waived his Miranda rights and willingly submitted himself to police questions without an attorney present-which he was entitled to have! He also passed a lie detector test. He sounds like man who has nothing to hide.

    His injuries are consistent with his account, and there is no evidence he ever laid a hand on Trayvon Martin. However, the police reports confirm his injuries and medical reports from doctor confirm that Mr Zimmerman suffered a broken nose.The big picture looks like a clear case of self defense.

    A grand jury would never have even indicted him-which is why the prosecutor did an end run around the Grand Jury.

    He will be acquitted or possibly a hung jury with at the maximum one trayvon bot holding out for conviction-but no conviction. Sorry.

    PS: It is extremely naive to expect someone who was attacked, and who had his head slammed on concrete, and who also had to shoot his attacker would be able to remember things like distances and directions, and another micro details that has to be a very emotionally traumatic experience, having been in a life/death struggle like that.

      • I think Zimmerman’s injuries are significant in that none of them seem to be the result of any attempt to defend himself whatsoever.

        Look at the close up pictures of his hands taken that night at the police station. Pristine.

        Anyone know if he even had any bruising on his forearms?

        unitron

          • This is one wierd case, and every new revelation just makes it more so.

            We went down the rabbit hole IN the looking glass a long time ago on this one.

            unitron

      • But in one of the paramedic statements, they cleaned blood off his hands and arms. Whose blood, nobody knows. Nor how much blood.

        Ahem…. EVIDENCE, you guys, EVIDENCE. Fair enough to clean where the skin is broken, we don’t want him getting blood poisoning before he gets to trial. But the rest of it? And the supplies used for this, not being at the crime scene, were not kept, either. Or had the services decided by then he’s not going to be charged, so it doesn’t matter?

      • @onlyiamunitron

        Serino notes somewhere (sorry, I can’t remember specifics of where he said it), “defensive wounds virtually non-existant.” He does say that may be due to the fact that he was wearing long sleeves that evening. Personally, I think the *initial* physical altercation was VERY brief, so much so to the point that Zimmerman never needed to fight back. I believe Trayvon was able to momentarily break free, but that GZ took him down and held him there, but that Trayvon was fighting back, and that’s when he was shot. Now, can the state prove that? We shall see!

      • @aussie –
        “But in one of the paramedic statements, they cleaned blood off his hands and arms. Whose blood, nobody knows. Nor how much blood.”

        Noticed that. I think it was his own blood. He put his hands on his head. He confirmed “blood was drawn” when he was talking to the neighbor that talked to him after the killing (W13).

      • HAHA unitron, yes. Complete with words only mean what I say they mean.

        No, I wasn’t following him. I was just going the same way. At the same time.
        (Serino Tape 3).

      • “honestly officer i wasn’t following him, he just did everything i did 10 seconds before I did it”

    • He answered different questions in the lie detector stress test interview than he wrote up in his statement. Major flaw, imo!

    • Can you explain to me how someone puts their hand over your mouth and nose and suffocates you and you don’t bite or hit at them?

    • daniel says,

      “Most importantly, George Zimmerman voluntarily waived his Miranda rights and willingly submitted himself to police questions without an attorney present-which he was entitled to have! He also passed a lie detector test. He sounds like man who has nothing to hide.”

      “PS: It is extremely naive to expect someone who was attacked, and who had his head slammed on concrete, and who also had to shoot his attacker would be able to remember things like distances and directions, and another micro details that has to be a very emotionally traumatic experience, having been in a life/death struggle like that.”

      Please don’t mistake those actions as an indication of not having anything to hide. GZ believes, in his twisted mind, that he has an ability to tell stories and convince everyone that what he says is true. I feel that has a lot do with his past behaviors and the parents intervening, not calling him on all his lies, misdeeds, etc. and holding him accountable. He’s gotten away with serious offenses in the past, well now this time it’s way beyond their reach and this recent offense has caused ‘graved’ consequences, literally!

      Since he declined going to the hospital, having xrays, a complete medical workup, and all his injuries officially documented…there’s ABSOLUTELY NO medical evidence to back up your point in your last paragraph.

      • George Zimmerman was so good at lying that he managed to convince his school officials to allow him to take part in the graduation ceremonies (as if he had actually passed all the courses and graduated) and his graduation *celebration* ensued as planned. He was shy some credits, but the “show must['ve] go[ne] on”!

    • Daniel,
      please refrain from commenting until you have caught up with the last 2 months of developments. It doesn’t make you look the brightest.

      “…from doctor confirm that Mr Zimmerman suffered a broken nose.” NO. sorry, NO. The doctor said ” likely closed fracture” which means “maybe just cracked” and didn’t think it bad enough even to send for x-rays. For the back of head injuries she suggested soap and water. The bandages he’s showing off in the reenactment were put on for show, by him or his wife.
      “..very emotionally traumatic experience, ..” the ambulance at the scene recorded perfectly normal blood pressure and other vital signs for him, not consistent with being freshly traumatised. Nor do ANY videos of him around that time show traumatisation.

      “..He sounds like man who has nothing to hide…” is exactly the image he was aiming for. He’s friendly with the cops, he’s used to talking his way out of trouble, last thing he wants to do is (a) get lawyered up to look like he had something to hide and (b) the idiot lawyer stopping him from talking his way out of what he is confident he can do yet again.

      “,,there is no evidence he ever laid a hand on Trayvon Martin,,” PRECISELY. What did he do to defend himself? NOTHING. In a 20-yard or so dash of running away (on the video he shows shoo-fly movements) he never tried to defend himself like a man – with his fists. He still had the flat-battery big flashlight in his hand, why didn’t he try hitting with that?
      On the ground being “pummelled” and “suffocated” he never tried to defend himself like a woman – biting and scratching. Or punching the assailant straddling him in the balls.
      The one and only “defence” he ever tried was SHOOT TO KILL. Any other method would have put a stop to the fight BEFORE it got to the point where he could fear for his life. He never tried.

      Nobody minds minor discrepancies. But in a lengthy interview 3 days later (Serino, tape #3) when he’s had time to settle down, he is unable to recall ANYTHING about where he was or what he was doing at specific points in his original phone call (when he was NOT traumatised so no excuse for not taking that in). After claiming he shouted for help “50 times at least” he sits there blank and silent and DOES NOT RECOGNISE HIMSELF on the 911 tape. It SHOULD bring it all flooding back to him. Instead he listens like he’s hearing someone else. WHICH HE IS, we are quite convinced.

      Very basically, you can’t claim a few VERY MINOR injuries caused you to fear for your life, kill someone, then claim the trauma of doing a killing makes you unable to remember ANYTHING except you were in fear for your life, with no details about HOW or WHY. It’s like pleading for clemency because you’re a fatherless motherless orphan….. when charged with killing your parents.

      • @aussie –

        ” It’s like pleading for clemency because you’re a fatherless motherless orphan….. when charged with killing your parents.”

        So true! In Zimmerman’s interview, he claimed he fell back into the grass. If so, any squirming he claims he did is what landed him in the dangerous “concrete” zone. How do you admit you yourself squirmed your own body into a dangerous area and then claim the other person caused your injury so that now you feel justified shooting the other person? That would be a total fallacy of logic.

        “I leaped into the pit of fire because the attacker hit me with a cup of ice” just doesn’t make any sense, imo.

  9. i can’t see the whole reenactment because it has been removed from the defense web site but from what i could see from a small part of the reenactment, he says his top lifted up in the struggle, he indicates that it lifts at the front….his hand movement to me looks like that is the way you would lift your top if you were trying to reveal your weapon….maybe one of his half truths. when he indicates where his gun was he says it was on his side but his hand moves further back, as though it was positioned slightly behind him. If they were fighting, trayvon on top, the front of his shirt lifted, how did martin see his gun situated slightly behind gz’s hip if gz was laying on his back.? i dont know how he saw it anyway since he was apparently focusing on georges head, but that just makes it even harder to believe. I think gz just demonstrated how he revealed his weapon, by sliding his top up like in the movies..no wonder he got a punch in the nose. In a life and death struggle how would he even know that his top lifted a little at the front…

  10. CALLING ALL CARS (EXPERTS)

    Please look at the 1:34 point in this video

    and tell me if the vehicle on the left is or is not a silver Honda Ridgeline.

    Somewhere I saw a still or photo from what I assume was early the next morning that showed it still there.

    Extra points if you can figure out on which side of which street it’s parked and in which direction it’s pointing.

    (the next morning shot was too tight to give location clues)

    unitron

    • We also know that Shellie Z. retrieved the truck before the sun came up. The police had failed to identify it and secure it as part of the crime scene.

      • Shellie could have retrieved the vehicle at anytiime 7:19pm forward since that’s when George got Witness #13 to call her.

    • Crime scene tape indicates it’s on (…hang on I need go for a walk to get the street sign…)…. on Twin Trees Lane, the north-south section, parked on the correct side of the road for heading north. JUST on the bend where it turns west towards the mailboxes.

      It has the headlights on. It also has the park lights on. If you stop the video at a moment when flashing lights in the foreground are not reflecting off it, you can see the tail lights are on.

      Next morning (and many days later) there is a white Ford parked in a very similar location, that for a long time we took to be maybe GZ’s. That is, I think, just out of the picture to the left. That truck looks very similar to the one showing at the 1.42 mark behind the reporter .

      The mystery car in your time slot is parked in a line “aiming at” the pedestrian visible behind the reporter. Your police car is on the grass just past the last driveway on the right.

      I have no idea what any of the cars are, we have totally different ones here in Australia. Same brands, different models.

    • I think that’s a Ridgeline and it’s on RVC at the other end of the cut thru.

      The cop car is around H33 on this grid and the Ridgeline, which does seem to have it’s lights on is at I-33.

      link to grid

      retreat view grid color

      Given the response time of the tv news crews, this would be a time AFTER Shellie Zimmerman likely retrieved the vehicle. It’s facing south.

      Until the re-enactment and related documents were public, I didn’t know the make and model of GZ’s vehicle. Now I see why some call it a truck and some say SUV and some say car.

      This picture doesn’t tell us much, however, except that it seems to confirm that SZ moved the truck. How did she get there and what does SHE drive? Her car may be visible somewhere parked near where his was, who knows?

      It seems if this was SZ she was “rubbernecking” at the crime scene at a point in time after the cops pulled onto the grass from both ends of the cut thru and were using their headlights to try to illuminate the T and dog walk areas.

      Good catch, unitron. Keep going.

      • I saw something the looks like a Honda Ridgeline on the OTHER side of RVC as well. I didn’t see a Honda on the other side of the cut-through — the Twin Trees side.

        Maybe George was lying about the location of his vehicle, too.

        Let’s ask the police where it was and for their evidence of it (snark, snark).

      • I personally think that Shellie was in the truck with George. That would explain how she got the truck home without needing to get another ride to it. At one point in his reenactment, he slips and says my wife… then he gets back to what he was saying.

      • Has anybody hacked Florida DMV and found out what Shellie drives and what Taaffe drives?

        unitron

      • I heard that slip of the lip, too about his wife. It seems like he was about to say his wife saw TM walking along, but he catches himself.

        He’s told so many lies it’s hard to know where to begin re-thinking the incidents of the evening.

        If you follow the speculation that his wife was with him in the car, the difficulty with that idea arises in that of course she’s never heard speaking, esp. when GZ says “sh*t, he’s running” and then gathers his things to get out of the car. In an ordinary relationship, this is where the wife would say something in response to both male’s actions. He also takes his keychain flashlight with him, which may or may not be normal but she better have her keys on her, or else he’s quite rude to leave her. He’s not taking it for the flashlight – he has his black one that he assumes works but doesn’t.

        I have wondered why he was up by the T again when the police arrive. Was he, gun holstered, about to go back to his truck for something? Was he going to retrieve his keys? Was he fleeing the scene of a crime? (doesn’t seem likely, but where was he going?) When he calls someone, as seen in the bloody head photo is he calling his wife, or someone else first, like maybe Frank Taaffe? (lots to consider there if you go off on that speculative tangent.) I assume the prosecution has his cell records. But the call to the wife isn’t really completed until after GZ is in cuffs. Did the resident/witness give their location to Shellie or did she already know where he was somehow? It’s an investigative question to put to the witness. Is the “just tell her I shot someone” enough info for her because she already knew the rest by virtue of being in the car with him?

        In the end we arrive back at the beginning however – not enough info in the public realm to make a conclusion.

    • here is a link to a photo illustration where I tried to use photoshop’s exposure tools to get as good a look at the car as possible.

      The license plate on the tailgate and the dark forms make me want to say this is a hatchback SUV of some sort but then again I think it is very similar to a ridgeline, and it looks silver too.

      I think this could be Shellie, after she moved the car and possibly before GZ was transported to the cop shop, but most likely after he was taken away. Shellie may have asked a cop what she should do, which is commonplace in a situation like this but I have no info about it. Just speculation.

      It’s intriguing and inconclusive of much at this point. But still a good catch. The TV station’s actual video would be of much better quality than a screen grab from a compresses web file.

      • forgot to include the link

        the pseudo ridgeline on the ground

        this places the car well, but I can’t say I’ve proved it’s a honda ridgeline yet. Maybe others that know cars better could help.

        The red light that SEEMS like the upper mounted rear brake light on a hatchback is NOT necessarily that. In the moving video shot it changes colors and may be a reflection of some sort. The diagonal shape that cuts into the house window and seems to form the upper part of the hatchback may be a bush.

  11. martin sat up..put his hands up..and gz says he thought martin was just meaning “ok i know you got a gun now, i heard it”……didn’t he just tell them that martin had looked at the gun and tried to reach for it, why is he now saying he thought trayvon was acknowledging the gun because he heard it. It’s only a minor detail but it just shows that he is making shit up as he goes along.

  12. Lonnie???

    where are you? You got it right ages ago.

    Everythng GZ says he did, is actually something Trayvon did. He’s turning it all around, in case witnesses saw any of it happening, hoping in the dark and confusion they’re not quite sure who was who.

    Of course he can’t say he had Trayvon’s arms out to the side restraining him while he was alive. So he has to move that to when he’s dead. This makes it later than when John saw TM holding down GZ. But he can’t control when people saw things. He can only sow confusion.

    A witness hears him saying “the gun is on the ground” to ??another witness. At this point he is up and walking around. In the movie (I call it movie cos its all fiction) he indicates he holstered it when he sees the first police arrive, being at that time still on top of Trayvon. This is not what the police saw, he was on his feet when they arrived. The gun WAS holstered. WHY?

    He did not holster it right after the shot. I do believe the gun WAS on the ground, having fallen when he lost his grip after it gave him a good whack on the nose with kickback.

    LISTEN to the tape with the screaming. It does NOT stop with the shot. There is the shot, a moment of no screaming, then ONE more loud yelp. First thing he asks the first witness is “is there blood n my face?”. This is where he starts to dream up the story of Trayvon breaking his nose.

    • Aussie, there was a yelp right after the final scream. Interesting commentary on the gun and that he asked the first witness, “Is there blood on my face?”

      • I do not hear that. I hear a loud cracking sound, a final help, and then the gun shot.

  13. If it is “extremely naive” to expect someone who was attacked to be able to remember details, why then does LE often take people back to the scene for a re-enactment or question them while still in hospital?

    • At the scene? because being back there tends to jog their memory.

      In hospital? so they can get what they can get, to know which way to proceed with the investigation.

      They may not remember all the details. They will likely tell parts of the story in the wrong order, as the most prominent ones keep leaping to the front of their minds. (Just listen to the 911 witnesses jumping all over the place with their stories). But later those parts can be joined together again.

      Actually more often than not, someone who was attacked keeps remembering way too much of it for way too long, and has to make conscious efforts, maybe with the aid of medication or counselling, to forget.

      • Aussie, I was posing that hypothetical question back to another poster when they suggested “we” are extremely naive to think zimmerman would remember details. If we are naive, then how does the defense hope to rely on his recall in a courtroom? (Fine, I admit it – it was snark aimed at that person.)

    • On point, verafish. Also, they don’t necessarily expect every detail to be on point, but they do expect the perp to remember his own feelings like why he did what if he was in fear and why he did what after saying he was searching for an address (which he’d apparently found per his statements, but hangs up on police dispatch without ever telling this info to police dispatch). Either he was lying ON THE POLICE CALL -or- HE WAS LYING IN HIS WITNESS STATEMENTS AFTER THE CALL.

      The significance of the pursuit of an address has been a major source of “proof” among zimmermanytes including his family who used the media to get out this portion of zimmerman’s story of what happened. It flies against logic to think that Zimmerman was looking for an address per his spokespeople, but in his statements and reenactment to police Zimmerman says he’s AT THE POINT WHERE HE CAN GIVE AN ADDRESS AND STREET NAME his family claims he’s still looking for. Zimmerman didn’t give this ADDRESS or STREET NAME to the police dispatch either.

      This leads a reasonable person to believe that Zimmerman was lying about both his location at the end of his call with police dispatch and that he was lying about it in interviews that took place within mere minutes after George had “done what he’d done” in his daddy’s own words.

      • CommonSense, the very first time I heard his call to NEN, I thought it odd that he hung up so abruptly, with “…have them call me when they get here…” as if he, himself, wasn’t sure where he was going to be. That indicated continued pursuit to me. Having listened repeatedly since then and viewing photos of were Trayvon’s body was, I have become convinced that the abrupt disconnect was because he’d spotted Trayvon and was headed down the walkway. I can almost hear him thinking (with giddy anticipation (yes, that’s MY imagination)) “Oh goooood, I get to capture and detain this dude before LE even gets here.”

  14. @ NLME about WordPress issues… could you turn off pre-moderation altogether? you say you don’t edit or omit anything other than spam… so any of that could still be removed afterwards, once posted, can’t it? Just thinking it would make the comment flow better when there’s people answering each other and you’re not here. Depends how much spam you get of course, we can’t tell because you chop it out ;)

  15. After listening to the audio recordings its frustrating not to see his actually body language. Especially the one where he is obviously showing Trayvon’s dead pictures to GZ. I have also heard Serino say in one interview that he got an anon call from a witness saying they saw GZ trying to detain TM and there was yelling back and forth. I’ve listened to all the witness audios available to date have not found one that says that. I must also say the state has NOT released Witnesses 4, 7 and 10 in the first round of discovery. From the second round of discovery officer T Smith is the one who interviewed 4, 7 , & 10 (page 3 of 4 from second discovery dump ) No 911 calls, no written or audio statements from those numbered witnesses. GZ has alot of discrepancies in his walk through statements etc. That has been very well stated by Blog owner and other posts.

    I wonder if these remaining witnesses are the final piece of the puzzle? Did they see it from begining to end?

    If I am wrong about the releases from those numbered witnesses, please provide a link and or written statements from a credible source.
    Thanks Loree

    • Loree, if they had a firm witness back then who saw the lot, they’d not have let GZ go.

      To me, Serino’s statement about the “anonymous witness” sounded like a bluff. It fitted very well with how else he was suggesting things to GZ, giving him a chance to admit to it, or DENY IT. He says nothing. No “NOT TRUE” out loud, no “they must be lying then” no “must be someone with something against me” no nothing. He’s acting like GZ’s friend trying to help him work out what to say to the public, so HE can’t openly say “are you sure you weren’t trying to detain him”.

      I could be wrong. It could have been someone who didn’t want to get involved, so they had no witness. And maybe that person’s gathered the courage since then to show up again.

      If Officer Smith did the first interviews, they’re all close residents. Maybe someone else from the east-west part of RVC across the top of the T. They were going door to door for a while, so they may have found someone or something.

      • Hi aussie,

        My guess would be that the anon call, if true, came in between time he was initially released and re-interviewed on 2/29. They wouldn’t have been able to arrest based solely on that, I don’t think. I’m just relieved to know that after reviewing this release of info, the SPD had actually attempted to further investigate even though the DA/SA, at the time, decided to intervene the night of the shooting.

    • Would love to see those witness statements, too. I believe they are the smoking guns. Would also love to see statements from the witness that saw Zimmerman “bounce” a female patron from an illegal house party as well as the statement from the person who first brough that under-the-table employment of Z to the public’s attention.

    • Loree

      I’m hoping there really is an anon witness that saw it all and only Serino and prosecutors know who it is. For a second after running that interview over in my head I thought maybe he was referring to DD…but they didn’t know about her at that time. Did anyone else pick up when he hinted to GZ that there could also possibly be some damning evidence on Trayvon’s phone?! Like maybe he did an audio/video recording and they were waitin to get the code to unlike the phone?

      Serino and the female detective were almost on the verge of calling him a flat out liar!

      • Keep in mind the MAIN strategy of the police is not to get to the bottom of the case with GZ in the room with them, unless he’s ready to make a full confession. The strategy is simply to keep him talking about as many aspects of his movements and motives and such as possible, as many times as possible to LOCK him into an account which can be held up against other evidence, witnesses, etc.

        GZ was a fool for speaking without a lawyer present. He’s a liar, but even people who tell the truth get convicted on “inconsistencies” when they speak at length to investigators.

        Police can and do lie to suspects during interrogations. Note that the whole time the investigators are friendly and open seeming with GZ. They want him to TALK and TALK and TALK and feel he can do so freely and that he is helping his own case. He’s not, as we can see. He’s sunk his own ship by lying to investigators, which is a crime in itself.

        But the idea that he would have ever been given “the third degree” is not how these sorts of investigations are conducted.

        And while we don’t know what witnesses 4 and 7 said, ( I haven’t heard about #10 but maybe that one too) it’s useless to speculate that they are somehow the key to the prosecution. We’ll see. If they were star witnesses to criminal activity by GZ, it’s hard to see why he wasn’t arrested sooner. But there is SO MUCH we don’t know about how this investigation was conducted, even after we see and hear all this latest material. There was NEVER an outside investigation into Sanfrod PD and Norm Wolfinger’s actions in this case. The closest we’ve had is the NYT article that only had sources from SPD, and very little to nothing from Wolfinger’s office.

        The obvious lies by GZ make me start once again to deeply question which of the following was Wolfinger’s reason for not filing charges – incompetence, racial boas or open corruption. Or some combination of all three because it’s CLEAR this guy lied to investigators on multiple occasions.

    • It’s a bit of a mystery since W4, W7 and W10 are in Category A on the redacted witness list from the first discovery, which means the prosecution thinks they might be called at trial, but there only sign of any LEO interaction with them is the ‘memos’ written by Smith — a beat cop, not an investigator. Smith was the first LEO to arrive at the scene, but also the first to leave, as he drove GZ to the SPD. I suppose he could have spoken to a few people while the EMTs were tending to GZ, but he wasn’t assigned to canvas, and he doesn’t mention talking to witnesses in his report.
      I’d guess that W4, W7 and W10 are insignificant, simply because if they’d had anything to say, somebody higher up the food-chain would have interviewed them at some point, and that would have to be included in the discovery, unless Corey wants to get a mistrial declared immediately and face REAL charges of prosecutorial misconduct.

  16. I have finished part one (before the fight) of my Zimmerman re-enactment analysis video. http://youtu.be/k07wZIU1siM
    Some of the points have already been made here, but not all, and in the video, you get to see or hear a lot of the contradictions, not just read about them.

  17. Pingback: George Zimmerman/police re-enactment video - Page 2

  18. The most obvious lie to me is statement of why he left his truck and went down the walkway to the next block.

    He says that he got out of his truck to look for a street sign.

    1) He was the neighbor watch captain, and there are only 3 streets in his neighborhood, but he didn’t know the name of this street?
    2) Who get’s out of their car to look for a street sign?
    3) In the police call, he actually got out of his car immediately after seeing Martin run, and answered “yes” to the question if he was following Martin seconds after exiting his vehicle.

    So his statement to investigators that he got out of his truck to look for a street sign is clearly false.

    Then there is his rationale for going down the walkway to Retreat View to get an address.

    1) If his motivation was to get an address, why didn’t he note to the dispatcher that he was in right front of a house with the address of 1211 on the road right past the clubhouse as you enter the community?
    2) He claims he walked to Retreat View to get an address for the dispatcher, yet he never provided this address to the dispatcher.

    It looks clear that his story about getting out to look for a street sign, then going the 300-400 feet down the footpath to the next block to look for an address is just a fabrication to hide his intent to pursue Martin.

    My guess would be made up this story about the street sign and walking to to get an address, because he knew that if his intent was to pursue Martin on foot it would damage his self-defense claim. Unfortunately for him, this will likely backfire, as it makes him look like a liar. And if he lied about this, why wouldn’t he lie about who assaulted who?

    • Yeah, makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it? he’s looking for an address for where his truck is parked, so he goes and gets an address from ANOTHER STREET where he is NOT parked. (this was before he was “traumatised by being nearly killed”, so what’s the excuse for the fuzzy thinking?)

      Actually the issue of where he is (“get them to call me”) comes up only 85 or 90 seconds later, and 2 minutes or more after he leaves the car…. just enough time for the below scenario:

      If he DID catch a glimpse of Trayvon down the south end of the path, he COULD have gone through to RVC and DOWN RVC towards the back gate, to be able to sneak up on him from the south. Running down the path would have given TM 50 yards to hear or see him coming. This way he can “corner” him, in DeeDee’s words.

      • It’s possible. There are a few minutes where nobody knows what happened. Except for DeeDee and Zimmerman. I suspect DeeDee’s account is the reason there is a 2nd degree murder charge, but I guess we just have to wait to hear what she has to say.

    • I’ve been saying this since April, everything you area saying about the street sign. But the fact that he says something so stupid on the face of it doesn’t prove he’s lying. Proof of lies comes from comparing what he says in the re-enectment to the audio of his 311 call to dispatch. And proof of lies in a courtroom is what will sink his credibility with a jury.

      He has a BS story about looking for a street sign but it’s his bullsh*t story and he sticks to it all the way. No wonder his father repeated it to the press – it’s the only story he’s got to explain why he wasn’t just running the kid down with his car, but had to get out and finish the job on foot. That last bit is speculation and hyperbole, but the basic idea is there. He chased the kid with his cat and thats WHY and when TM took off running, and GZ after him.

  19. “2) He claims he walked to Retreat View t!o get an address for the dispatcher, yet he never provided this address to the dispatcher.”

    Exactly!!! He claims to be there just before he hangs up with police dispatch, but never tells police dispatch what the address he’s apparently standing in front of is. The whole story is ridiculous and no jury, not even one made up of 3 year olds, would ever buy it.

  20. I know that many people don’t know this but Zimmerman dropped his keys with the flashlight still on about 50ft away from where he said the fight occurred along with the key was a black tactical flashlight with blood on it. I state this because he never mentioned what action caused him to drop these things. Also I’ve been wondering how did he have a fight to the death without his shirt not even coming from his pants where it was seen on police video tucked so neatly.

    • Was it the larger one with the blood evidence? I believe it was, and i wonder if they tested that for prints. GZ claims he though TM was hitting him with something in his hand. I always thought he had whacked himself with it right before or right after Mary and Selma run out, but I would think someone might have seen that happen, but again, it was dark.

    • The scattered “debris field” is a major piece of the investigative puzzle and the prosecution has withheld the “evidence map” as long as they could so as to not announce a part of their strategy in advance of trial. I feel somewhat guilty for posting my own version on my flickr site but this is what bloggers do in cases like this.

      Try always to keep in mind that while the dropped objects suggest many things, the prosecution needs to PROVE one story at trial, and refute the story(s) that GZ told. This is all circumstantial evidence but people are convicted on such every day. It seems obvious that the fight MOVED anf that TM likely hit GZ with the cell phone in his hand – TM’s finger was injured on the INSIDE, not the knuckle. Witnesses heard the fight migrate. GZ mostly claimed he was struck to the ground, until taken to the scene where he invents on the spot a new tale of “must have stumbled” or whatever his exacts words are.

      Each and every bit of this was obvious to Serino, but he still sought PROOF that could be used in court that GZ was pushing a false narrative. Sometimes the best you can do is make sure you have the suspect on tape being given the chance to come clean – which we have in the final audio clip, and that is all you are going to get. GZ sticks to his BS story about street signs and such well enough to say he never recanted his story. It’s a terrible story, but the prosecution has to PROVE it.

      IMO the prosecution cannot prove how the fight started, and yet doesn’t need to in order to convict. ( It’s possible TM did strike the first blow up by the T, but if he did it seems clear also that GZ tried to detain him in response, which is a no-no in legal terms and negates his self defense claim.) They are going to PROVE GZ is lying about major other parts of the tale and let a jury decide the binary question: either the fight started like GZ says it did, or he’s a liar. GZ has corroborative evidence that he was struck in or about the face, bit no corroborative evidence that TM started the fight. And he will be seen to be a liar to the jury on other points and the prosecution will let the jury connect the dots.

      The fight started with a punch by TM or a lunge by GZ – something set them on the run south. We’ll likely never know.

  21. The confessed murderer tells Serino that he did not run after Trayvon after he said that he ran (from interview 3). He says the wind interference is because it was windy. After we all know he stops running, do you hear any more wind in the 911 call? I don’t…

    • Nope, no wind after that! If I were Serino, I would have retorted back, “I bet you just have really heavy foot steps, too, you know…since we can all hear those quickly pounding on the ground *right after* you say ‘he’s running,’ but I’m sure it was just the wind, not you actually running that’s causing that.” *eye roll*

    • yes and this same wind noise occurs for LONGER after he’s told “We don’t need you to do that” than BEFORE. GZ says OK but doesn’t stop when he says okay. He’s likely run from his car to the T. TM is actually slightly BEHIND him if he was in John’s back yard (where the body was found) at this point and GZ’s flashlight isnt working. So he missed him the first time, and came back shortly thereafter, having walked to RVC to make sure the teen didn’t go that way. I think GZ may have killed the missing 2 minutes or so by walking north up to the corner of RVC to make sure the teen didn’t head west on RVC, then came back when he knew there was no other way the teen could have gone. The time works out easily if he did so.

      • How long do you hear the wind in the tapes? I only hear it for about just under 40s. He says, “Shit, he’s running.” You him tell the dispatcher to the back gate then the door dings and cue the wind and foot pounding against the road/sidewalk. I hear running about 20 seconds then the dispatcher says, “we don’t know you to do that.” He doesn’t answer right away, and is still running then says, “okay,” while still running. I thought the running before and after was about equal. I agree the 2 minutes is killed by GZ walking that area trying to prevent TM from getting too far. My belief, GZ walked somewhere that caused TM to have to take another route, which lead them to the point the shooting occurred. At the end of the non-emergency call, GZ is goes from seemingly calm to sounding highly distracted. I think he saw/heard TM, and knew he had him close.

      • Nope, most likely went all the way down RVC. Then sad at having really lost him, started back up the path (“returning to my vehicle”) and came across TM leaning on the wall at his OWN PORCH yakking away on the phone.

        Arguments, fights, chases then ensued. He CANNOT admit to going off the top of the path, if he’s to maintain the fiction that he didn’t start it.

  22. none of that reenactment made sense. martin was standing on the grass because there was no footpath…he was waiting to cross the road, looking around for cars i suspect, that is not suspicious behaviour.

    GZ pulled into the clubhouse when he got connected to dispatch..he lost martin around the corner and told dispatch and they told him to follow…but none of that happened…he lost site down by the cut off.

    When did he get the chance to reverse out of the club house and follow in his car? In the reenactment he said he was at the clubhouse, ahead of trayvon when he was connected, so when he was saying “hes coming towards me” trayvon must have been walking towards the sport centre from taafes..but then none of the rest of the call fits…

    He said trayvon turned right from the T, he lost
    sight of him and then Trayvon returned circling his car..he showed exactly where trayvon came from, but his statement said trayvon came out of the darkness, out of nowhere? He never mentioned on the call that he lost sight of trayvon that first time…and why didn’t he follow then? why wait till he came back and circled the car and then ran away before you decide to follow? none of that makes sense, it is a fictional story. It’s like he is a five year old excitedly acting out what happened in the school yard that day.

    This is where his story takes a seriously wrong turn, full of inconsistancies and he is always telling one scene and acting it out…then pauses as though he now needs to think of the next scene and trying to fit it to the end result.

    As everyone else has pointed out his reasons for exiting his car are lies, so many discrepencies..from not remembering the street name, to not being able to get a number from the backs of houses when there over his shoulder was an entire row of the front of houses. He walked all the way through to get a number of a house on his street, not the street he was on, and never actually got that number although it took him two minutes after getting off the phone to make his way back to the T.

    He also said they asked if he still wanted someone to come out since he lost sight of him…i don’t remember that part of the conversation but without going back and listening to it i can’t be sure, but that just seemed like he was telling a complete porky again.

    He walked back and passed the T junction when Trayvon came out of the darkness towards him (in one interview he said he moved backwards away from martin as he approached), there was a brief exchange of words before Trayvon punched him in his nose and he fell flat on his back (this has been the story from zimmerman, his father, brother, taaffe and everybody telling the story)…that should mean zimmerman is on his back, north of the top of the T with martin on top of him….but hang on a second that doesn’t work..this has been a real sticking point for NLME and he is completely right…how did they end up south of the T? . You could see him look to the grass and realise the altercation had to end further south…he starts running south whilst having an imaginary bitch slapping fight until he gets to where he thinks the scene of the crime was…how and when this hand slapping encounter happened when gz was suppose to be flat on his back with martin on top of him is one of the many mysteries i don’t think we will ever know.

    Of course the rest of the encounter is complete crap too. martin was on him pounding with fists, bashing his head, smothering his nose and mouth with each hand. Yet there was no dna on trayvons hands, he was able to yell long and loud, and was able to reach for his gun by using the kick ass manouver of holding martins hand in place with his super strong inner bicep, contort his elbow and hand to enable him to unholster his gun, point and shoot.

    Then of course there are several different versions of what happened next, but i don’t believe a word he says at all.

    I’m starting to think i may have been right on one of the points, that zimmerman was trying to hold/detain martin and they fell. Since hearing of the anon witness i think that’s definately what happened. Trayvon obviously didn’t touch zimmermans face so maybe his arms were being held. Zim was calling for help to detain this guy. He didn’t want 911 called, just help me, he said…I think he was yelling help because trayvon was trying to get away…when he finally did break loose zimmerman grabbed his hoodie and shot. Like someone here at bcclist worked out, there was contact with the hoodie and the gun but distance between trayvon and the gun meaning zim probably grabbed his top, shot, and then copped a whack in the face from the kick back and dropped his gun in the grass.

    There was no way in hell this guy killed in self defense. Serino must have been so frustrated as must the rest of the them. Who was it that decided not to prosecute? I think the police did a better job than i first gave them credit for, it was the idiot who wouldn’t let them press charges that has a lot to answer for.

    • The only side I’m on here is figuring out what really happened, and I’ve had to amend upwards my opinion of the Sanford PD as well.

      My opinion of the people who’ve done analysis of this online is pretty high too, much more so than of much of the MSM reporting.

      That said, if Trayvon was on top and bent forward at the waist, then his hoodie and the shirt or sweatshirt under that could have hung down away from his chest, so the pistol could have been in contact with the hoodie but an inch or two away from the chest.

      unitron

      • Someone, correct me if I am wrong on this, but @onlyiamunitron, I believe the reports revealed the holes on the hoodie and shirt/sweatshirt were higher than the hole in his chest, which is why many came to the conclusion that his shirt was pulled away and down.

    • jo

      Aside from the tragic end to GZs tale…you have to admit, it’s quite comical. At least your re-telling of it. LMBO

  23. Zimmerman is really concerned that he got out of his truck and followed Martin. He works overtime on the reenactment to try and make it seem that he didn’t follow. Apparently he felt that there might not be a tape of the 311 call for the detectives to listen to. Clearly he got out of his truck when he saw Martin run. “Sh__ he’s running!” And you can hear that he is at least jogging – the dispatcher heard it and asked if he was following him. But Zimmerman thinks he can get away with claiming that he got out and “started walking” to get a street address. A street address he could get from his car.

    And there are three – three – streets in the neighborhood in which Zimmerman is the neighborhood watch. He wants us to believe that he only knows the name of one of them.

    Also, when he allegedly gets the address he doesn’t call the police to give it to them. Alibi blown again.

    • He claims he was still on the phone with the dispatcher when he got to RVC for the address. YET, he does not give the address to the dispatcher AND immediately before hanging up, after he presumably has this address as per him, he tells the dispatcher to have the cops call him. Lying liar.

      • Yep he contradicted what the dispatcher said. Zimmerman says on the reenactment video that he told dispatch he would be at his car, when he said no such thing. In fact the dispatcher asked him if he should be reached by the police at the mailboxes to which he responds to have them call him and he would tell them where he’s at. Surprise, surprise, the 311 call was recorded.

  24. Just now getting over here to check out your amended maps. I’ve got a lot to say but before I have even read your comments I will say this – GZ is pushing a false narrative and this can be proven through deductive reasoning that what he describes in the videotaped walk thru is impossible unless he can teleport and possibly see around corners, too. Look forward to reading all this and sharing my own maps.

    real quickly, here is a google earth “path” tool illustration of the “double back circling” action.

    if TM circled GZ's car...

    There are more maps and efforts at deducing things from the timeline sugessted by the call to dispatch here. Please check them out, there are some things you will find useful for your own opinions there I’d imagine, or at least a lot of independent validation.

    • Welcome, willisnewton. We were hoping you would chime in.

      Even at double time, that circling move takes 38 seconds. Way too much to account for and, as you point out, doesn’t get mentioned in the call to SPD.

      Mind if we share on some other site?

      • of course not. Feel free to share links to my illustrations elsewhere.

        On my flickr site I’ve got a lot of illustrations, mostly for my own notes but I’ve posted an evidence map, and a lot about Frank Taafee’s west facing car that is misplaced, etc.

        Most are in “Sets” but until I organize them into sets they are just in my photostream, so the newest ones are there.

        I’ve been saying for MONTHS that the location of the body alone proves that GZ has been pushing a false narrative. Now that I see the walk thru reenactment video I realize I’d given him FAR more credit for making up a good story than he deserved. Again, the trick for the prosecution s to demonstrate PROOF that he cannot be telling the truth about certain aspects, this circling maneuver being a prime example. Then his credibility is destroyed, as if he had any left at this point given his passport and money deceptions. If you think about the motivations for all that, it seem as though it was only the GPS ankle bracelet that foiled his flight from justice. We wil likley never know short of a confession or his wife turning state’s evidence against him, but when he left jail he had means, motive and opportunity but for the tracking device.

        I don’t see this case going to trial if the state is willing to offer him anything in return for a confession and a guilty verdict.

    • Hi, Willis,
      are they your maps? if so, I am happy you finally found us, we’ve been looking at them and been impressed.

      Have you seen our witness location map? Tchoupi posted it separately

      and includes summaries of what they said.

      The police sketch of the area is in the current evidence about to be released. Will be interesting to see how close the maps are.

      To me the biggest problem with the reenactment is he claims he left TM behind at 1460 RVC, yet he spends only a few moments at the clubhouse, then drives down to opposite the paths, and TM somehow has gotten there before him.

      He’s using the word “then” to cover anything from 3 seconds to 5 or 6 minutes which leaves a lot of activity unexplained.

      • yes I’ve now seen your witness map. Jeralyn at talkleft has a similar one. I’m a social pariah over there but often post on her site simply because it is moderated and the signal to noise ratio is less. I can’t handle the unmoderated discussion groups, there are too many casual observers who post emotions first and reason and logic last.

        GZ may have had a case for SYG or self defense had he not told such a pack of lies. He was stuck on or about the head and I also think witnesses saw him on the losing end of a wrestling match at one point, at least. But there’s just no way to believe a word of what he’s saying, is there?

        The movement from the 1400 block of RVC to the clubhouse area is problematical the way he tells it, and the movement from the clubhouse area to the cut thru is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with the recorded call. he’s proven himself a liar in the second instance, and so the prosecution may not bother to attack his less than credible statements about what happened before the call since there is not the direct proof like there is elsewhere. But I agree he’s hiding something at every turn. His tale is 100% exculpatory at every juncture and i think he’s twisted it ’round to claim he did not do something he likely did do – and that is trail the youth with his SUV in a menacing fashion at least down TTL. Deductive reasoning puts his car south of the clubhouse somewhere but NOT already by the cut thru given the timing of the moves as described of TM as described in the recorded call.

        And yes, GZ clearly thought that by calling 311 and not 911 that his call was not recorded. He’s screwed the pooch there completely. That’s why the last audio clip with Singleton and Serino playing the tape for GZ is so priceless to the prosecution. At the bond hearing they asked him under oath if he hadn’t had a lot of inconsistencies and “i don’t remember” type answers and GZ SWORE UNDER OATH that the answer was “absolutely not.”

        This case is not going to trial, IMHO unless GZ is as big a fool as he seems to be, let’s say.

  25. Folks,

    I used the Game Room video (below) to count vehicles passing by the front of the clubhouse and came to the conclusion that GZ never parked there to call 911.

    Have a look to link for the figures I’ve generated for that analysis (the last two at the bottom).
    The first one is an histogram showing the vehicle count. The vehicles are split in 5 groups: A) Stopping in front the clubhouse, B) passing in front of the club house toward the entrance, C) passing in front the clubhouse from the entrance, D) seen at the front entrance but not passing in front the club house, & E) Emergency Vehicle. You’ll notice that there is not a single vehicle stopping in front the clubhouse.
    The last figure shows the view of the clubhouse and the game room windows from the north entrance. It shows that any vehicle passing by the entrance or along the front of the clubhouse must be caught by the camera in the game room.
    Finally, I have used the arrival of the emergency vehicle to put a time stamp on the clubhouse video. It reveals a sudden increase of traffic at around the time of the shooting. It also reveals some traffic increase in the minutes prior to GZ’s SPD call.

      • I’ve read the kos article last week and frankly, the was like: “Is the author on drug or something? I know someone down there in FL, who would have called police for less then that.”

        At some point the guy sees a face. I checked following his own instructions, all you can see is a light spot reflected on the window.

        He also sees someone with a flashlight by the mailboxes. This is actually, the headlight of what I believe is GZ’s truck. It is true that if you look to just the East Pool Hall video, between 22:33 & 22:43, there is a light spot and you can’t tell what it is. However, at 22:49 on the East Pool video (not the east pool HALL), you clearly see that it was a vehicle coming from the mailboxes going toward the back entrance. You can see the 2 headlights and also the red rear lights after the car turned left. You can also see it make a U-turn and stop facing the pool.

      • Have to defend my post here. That is most definitely somebody with a flaslight. At 22:14 somebody looks into the pool hall without a flashlight. The person moves towards the pool, then steps back into the opening, pointing the flashlight first in one direction and then in another direction, then steps back towards the pool again. Then you briefly see the flaslight again at 22:46, this time the person is not standing right in front of the pool hall but closer to the pool, and the light is directed in a more downward direction.
        As you can see in this picture, the light could not possibly have come from headlights.

        You can also see in the pool video that the moving red is located right behind the hedge.

      • Amsterdam is referring to the East Pool HALL video from the clubhouse.

        tchoupi is referring to the East Pool video.

    • Amsterdam over at kos came to a similar conclusion. Kudos for looking at those grainy blobs for such a long time. Headache inducing. Her diary on the theory that GZ got out and poked around the clubhouse with a flashlight seems to be getting updated at present – it’s not up at the time of this comment. Look for it, or her revised version soon. She’s been working on timelines for weeks and weeks and was already ahead of the curve on a lot of this new info when it was released.

    • Tchoupi
      you are watching for lights, right?

      So you are assuming the vehicle had lights on.

      If I saw someone acting suspicious near a clubhouse, and wanted to park there, for example for walking around and peering inside every door/window with a flashlight, I would kill my headlights, so the suspect would be unaware of my presence.

      That “missing” set of videos puts the flashlight incidents between the 19 to 22 minutes marks.

      Could one of your green marks “passing by from entrance” be a vehicle reversing from the parking and then putting on the headlights?

      And then he keeps going and THEN noticed TM hanging around near the mailboxes, stops to observe better?

      I mean, if he was just pulling over to dial the number, to be a good citizen and not use a cell phone while driving, why not just PULL UP on the street? what’s the POINT of pulling into the car park? Either way TM is going to see him (TM at this point allegedly having been left behind near 1460 RVC). There is zero advantage to stopping in the car park unless he is going to look around in there.

      But doing it with lights off would indicate TM is actually AHEAD of him, ie he has NOT just driven past him at the top bend of RVC.

      So…he says he left TM near Taaffe’s house, called the police near/stopped at the clubhouse. And suddenly TM is staring and coming over to check him out? (yeah, ok, say by this time TM’s walked the length of RVC to the club). And then he starts running FROM THE CLUBHOUSE SPOT?

      In that case how did both of them end up near the T?

      So, TM runs down Twin Trees, this is still the dog-leg section. GZ has to reverse out, turn right, turn left, stop near the white Ford (on wrong side of the road). At this point he is driving, so cannot ALSO be out of car jogging, although that is what we hear on the tape JUST AFTER the “he is running” comment.

      If TM runs near the clubhouse, by the time GZ backs out and starts driving, he is going to be passing TM about 1/4 way into the east-west section of TTL, so he would not be in a position to emerge from the T to come back and circle the car. Unless GZ drives slower than TM runs/walks.

      • Back to an old old theory.
        1) GZ, on his way to shopping, sees TM OUTSIDE the estate, in Orlando Ave, and sees him head towards the shortcut
        2) GZ races around to catch him coming out the other end (which we all know is near Taaffe’s place)
        3) if he turns right into RVC he would cme opposite TM and maybe cause him to turn and flee, so he goes down TTL, along Oak, back up RVC to come out behind TM at the shortcut.
        4) he does NOT see him at Taaffe’s place. It’s raining hard and TM is running, so he spots him at a distance cutting down the path towards the clubhouse. TM thinks “shelter” GZ thinks “robbery” (tho what you’d get from an empty locked clubhouse is anyone’s guess).
        5) GZ parks (lights off) to check around the clubhouse, not seeing TM who is on the other side of the mailboxes.
        6) he gives up, keeps driving, goes past the mailboxes THEN spots TM standing there. CALLS THE COPS.
        7) TM comes over NOT to “check me out” but because the car is parked along the route he needs to take to get home.
        8) TM runs (partly form rain partly from GZ) DOWN TWIN TREES like GZ says (only a different portion of it). GZ gets out and starts following.

    • The analysis posted earlier helped locating when GZ passed by the clubhouse. His Honda Ridgeline was caught on the Kitchen camera passing (and again not stopping) by the clubhouse at 7:06.

      Check it out (last image) there: http://imgur.com/a/bcAII

    • Not saying you’re wrong, but if Zimmerman never parks at the clubhouse, who’s that walking around it shining a flashlight into the doors and windows, and why haven’t they come forward to say anything about seeing either Martin or Zimmerman that night?

      Someone over on LL2 contended for a while that Martin was sitting by the pool for a long time, but there’s no evidence Martin had a flashlight.

      Where was Taaffe between 7 PM and 7:30 PM?

      unitron

      • I checked again the kos diary stating that GZ is walking around the clubhouse.

        Honestly, the person who wrote that diary confused flashlight with headlights, car’s red rear light with red jacket, some light reflection on a window with a white face.

        Please, have a look to the East Pool Hall & East Pool vids.

        In the East Pool Hall vid, at 22:32 a small light spot comes from the left and stops for 10sec. That light spot is from the headlight of GZ’s truck stopped on TTL by the mailboxes seen from the side.

        You can’t tell from that light spot only that it is a vehicle. So, when the author of the kos diary states it a GZ’s flashlight, it looks like an acceptable interpretation.

        At 22.:43 from the same vid, you can see the light spot starting moving again toward right. A second later there is another brief white flash coming from the vehicle, possibly the brake light.

        Now move to the East Pool vid. At 22:48 you’ll see on TTL (top left corner) a mass with 2 bright lights moving from the mailboxes aarea toward the right then upward with some winding. These are not 2 flashlights, these are the rear lights of GZ’s truck moving toward the back entrance.

        If you wait a bit, you’ll see the vehicle making a move to the right end then coming back in a U-turn (that part I admit is not really obvious). Then, you end up having the headlights shining straight on the camera making a huge white spot. This is GZ parking on TTL facing west.

        In the end, it shows DeeDee was right. TM was waiting at the mailboxes for the rain to slow down when he noticed GZ in his truck.

  26. EVERYONE please listen to the reenactment
    2:43

    (pause)… like I said my wife is (quick stop) I left (??) the grocery store

    I thought on first hearing that he was saying he’d left FOR the grocery store. It really sounds more like “left her at” the grocery store.

    OKAY it’s happened to all of us, that we’ve left behind something important, like our money?

    COULD be a story to explain why he had no interest in following TM, as last time it took a long time for cops to get there, secure the place etc. Of course this does not fit in with any of his actions in the following minutes.

    But it COULD explain his having seen TM outside and come back around to find him at the shortcut. And cover any possible surveillance showing him just entering the estate a few moments earlier.

    Oh boy, wouldn’t she be pissed? leaves her there with a cart full of shopping, “back in 5 mins with the money” and then a phone call “get home any way you can, he’s just shot somebody”.

    (he says in one of the police interviews he/they always did the week’s shopping on Sunday nights).

    • Aussie said “‘back in 5 mins with the money’…”

      Hmmm…. they haven’t released the ATM video yet, have they?

      • I’ve been sweating on that bank video since the moment I spotted it on the evidence list. Well, the moment I saw what address the bank is at.

        If that shows him alone in the car, or taking money out, then anything he said about going home for money isn’t true (what a surprise!) but there’s nothing in official statements that he did this. It just sounds like it’s something he said in casual conversation with the police before they set off on the reenactment.

        But I think it’s going to show him driving out and turning LEFT. About 6.50.

    • Good catch Aussie.

      It sounds to me that he was about to say that his wife went shopping.
      In this case, ShelLIE may have spotted TM and called GZ to check.

      Now, it may explain why GZ ordered Manalo to just tell his wife that he shot someone, which sounds off. If she knew that her husband was after someone, then indeed, giving just the “I killed someone” information may make more sense. Just a bit more sense…

  27. Once the instinct to turn hunter takes over, he MUST come out of this a hero, or he’s in deep deep doggy doo for not going back to pay for the food.

  28. I’ve completed the analysis of the clubhouse videos. My figures are there: http://imgur.com/a/bcAII.

    The main points are:
    1) No vehicle stopped at the front of the clubhouse. This is a major contradiction of GZ’s statement.
    2) There is a small traffic increase in front of the clubhouse between 7:06 & 7:09. The second vehicle seen during that 2min period looks like GZ’s Honda Ridgeline and it goes toward the north entrance. This would be 3min earlier than what he stated and reenacted.
    3) At 7:08 a vehicle stops for 10sec by the mailboxes then proceeds toward the back entrance. It makes a U turn on TTL and stops facing west shining the pool with its headlights at about 7:09. This can only be GZ and it is another discrepancy with GZ’s reenactment/statement.

    It looks like GZ drove around the gated community for about 2min passing by the clubhouse 5x before stopping at the mailboxes for 10sec and finally parking further east after a U-turn so that he could face the mailboxes right before calling SPD.

    The videos are in fact very important as they prove that GZ observed TM for 3 minutes before calling SPD. Even if this is a much shorter time than what I was stating in my previous posts (up to 25min), it still remain a fact that George Zimmerman started stalking Trayvon Martin before calling 911. By stopping 10sec by the mailboxes where Trayvon was, George Zimmerman becomes the one who started the confrontation about 8min before the scuffle.

    • Tchoupi, just before that bright light at the mailboxes, someone is shining a torch around at that door for a fair amount of time. That strong light just APPEARS (I know the video is snapshots, not continuous). But….can it be just headlights TURNED ON on a vehicle already parked there with lights off?

      • Aussie,

        Could you help me with telling me what video and what time?
        I think I have logged the time every single light event on 3-4 of the vids but I may have missed something. Thanks

      • Sorry, I kinda asked you that when I was watching it, almost like you’re here and know which one…..

        East Pool Hall 22.09. Through the glass door, looks like a bit of walkway, a raised kerb, more walkway. There’s a light on these, fairly dim. At 22.09 the front part (closer to the door) gets a bright spot. This seems to go off and on a few times, then suddenly the glare of headlights you mention.

        Does anything indcate that headlight is moving? could be it one just turned on after being parked there in off position?

    • wow you’ve done such a great job, but i look at all the videos and can’t make out much..i can definately see that someone was shining lights in and walking past windows but what cars drove past and did u-turns is all too confusing for me. You guys are really doing all the hard stuff and it’s really appreciated and really interesting.

  29. I think it is terribly damning that GZ refers to TM as “the suspect”. This makes it seem like he is playing cop. Just because you declare yourself NW and carry a gun, it doesn’t give you the right to label citizens as “suspects”. TM was not a “suspect”, and there was not even a crime to be suspected of. By saying that, GZ makes it clear that he was playing cop and he triggered an altercation that killed someone, even perhaps unintentionally, by scaring the victim into defending his life, which as it turns out, was not just threatened , but ended. If you had a gun, why would you try to detain a “suspect” without using the gun? That doesn’t make any sense.

    • Toneii

      I brought up that about him referring to Trayvon as “the suspect” in his written statement…but what made me realize that he thought of himself as someone in ‘authority’, is when he tells them either during the reenactment or audio interview, how we was holding him down and saying “don’t move, stay down!”

      • Something else ironic…while GZ repeatedly refers to Trayvon as “the suspect”, at the bottom of the written statement where Inv Singleton signs her name, right above that is the line titled, ‘Report Contains’, and she writes…”Suspect Statement”. LOL!!!

      • gz jumping on top of trayvon after killing him could have been a move to cross-contaminate — getting his dna on trayvon’s sleeve. none of the witnesses that came out right after reported hearing the command, “don’t move, stay down.” or “can you help me restrain this guy.” probably another gz lie. taaffe also used the word “authority” in one of his interviews explaining why gz did what he did. i agree that gz was playing cop. totally agree.

    • Toneii

      that first statement was made on the night, when he thought TM is a stranger up to no good, with no business being there. He did suspect him.

      So “suspect” is a reasonable word to use, what else could be say? “the guy”? “the dead guy” (when he wasn’t dead yet?) ” the nigg?”.

      Suspect means “the guy I was suspicious of”. It could even be the word was suggested by conversation during the interview, and first came from the police.

      About the only other word I can think of that would cover an unknown person would be “subject”.

  30. Aussie,

    Thanks for your questions. I’ll try to answer them all. It also forces me explaining what I did in terms of methodology.

    1st question is about GZ driving lights off. This is possible obviously if he did then I’m wrong on many conclusions I’ve made. However, there is a vehicle with headlights on that stops on TTL by the mailboxes for 10sec (East Pool Hall @ 22:33 ~7:08pm) then went on TTL toward the back entrance (East Pool @ 22:49 ~7:08pm) before making a U-turn further east on TTL. You can see the headlights and rear lights of that car on TTL. The vehicle stopped facing the pool with headlights on creating a huge light spot on the video. Then finally, the headlights are turned off. Given the moment this happened, I see only GZ as an explanation.

    2nd question about vehicle cars passing by th clubhouse from entrance. Cars driving on RVC in front of the clubhouse are caught by 2 cameras: 1) The game room & 2) the Kitchen. The game room video shows 2 window. The kitchen video shows just one. Actually, I believe the two cameras are on 2 corners of the same room but with different angles: a) the game room video shows north-east (toward the gate), & b) the kitchen video shows north-west (toward Frank Taafe’s). All cars caught by one video passing on RVC in front of the clubhouse are also seen in the other within seconds. I’ve checked that all videos of interest are in sync. So, using the 2 windows in the game room plus the 2 angles offered by the 2 cameras, it is easy to check what in direction the cars are going. There are also other indications such as the direction of light beams as well as the possibility of catching rear lights. I’m pretty confident I got the direction of every vehicle right.

    3rd question concerning GZ parked in front of the clubhouse. I should indeed say, no car with headlights on parked in front of the clubhouse. But, no car headlights suddenly appeared on one video without being seen on the other. So, I don’t believe any vehicle’s headlights were turned on/off in front of the clubhouse.

    How I did this? It was difficult as you can hardly make more boring movies. At least at first sight. But then, patterns appeared.
    I first found that all vids are in sync. This was initially found thanks to the blue light of the emergency vehicle. It was later confirmed by the fact that light events are linked from videos to videos. So, I could built the following chain:
    Kitchen Game Room East Pool Hall East Pool. You can see that the chain corresponds to the locations and that the weaker link is between the Game Room & the East Pool Hall because of the junction RVC/TTL at the north gate.
    Then logging in the time lights appear in front of the clubhouse you get an idea of the traffic during the 45min of the videos. This was used to create the histogram (http://imgur.com/a/bcAII). It shows a sudden increase of traffic in the last 15mins with a peak of 6 cars/min at the 38th minute. It has to be mostly due to police & emergency. The vehicle having blue light appears after the traffic peak. So, I had to assume that it is the emergency truck rather than police. The 1st police car is T. Smith at 7:11 and emergency comes minutes before 7:30 when TM is declared dead. Using those two datapoints I have estimated that the vids are from 6:45 to 7:30. Interestingly enough, it placed the beginning of GZ’s call immediately after a small increase of traffic by the clubhouse.

  31. As unitron noted, with the new evidence release the SPD, and Chris Serino specifically, while not necessarily Top Cops, appear to be much more competent that the impressions left by the earlier redacted reports.

    After watching the re-enactment from the 27th, and listening to just the first part of Serino’s interview with GZ on the 29th, my thoughts are drawn back to the Big Picture questions this whole thing started with.

    Anyone who has seen the video re-enactment AND listened closely to Zimmerman’s police call knows the re-enactment is full of falsehoods. Perhaps Zimmerman could merely have been confused, but as the post cwills1 linked above indicates, a trained investigator would ‘profile’ Zimerman’s story as a pack of consciously constructed lies.

    It seems obvious to me that by the 29th, Serino is convinced GZ is lying, and is employing a variety of strategies to get him to reveal more: playing good cop ‘you’re the good guy and I’m trying to help you,’ holding out the threat of contradicting witnesses (I would guess he made up the business about the anonymous eyewitness just to shake GZ), etc. GZ doesn’t really bite. He’s not that stupid, I guess. But he’s really in a predicament. He had to devise the story he told Singleton at a time when he didn’t know Trayvon Martin belonged in the neighborhood, and without being able to review the details of his police call. So, while the story he told might have been plausible if indeed TM had NOT belonged in the community, and if the police had no cause to check the details back against the recording of his call, it starts to fall apart once more facts come to light. But GZ is stuck with the basic framework he told Singleton. He can fudge it a little bit here and there, but basically he stuck himself with an account that HIGHLY problematic, to say the least.

    So here’s where we’re back tot he big picture. Serino doesn’t just suspect GZ’s story has problems on 2/29, he KNOWS GZ’s story has problems. So how in the heck do his superiors, Chief Bill Lee and SA Norm Wolfinger let Zimmerman walk away without facing any charges at all? Lee has now been fired, because he worked for the City of Sanford, and the elected officials of the city knew he was too tainted to continue. But Lee has been highly regarded and scandal free throught his LEO career. He didn’t make the call to release Zimmerman on his own… the word came down from Wolfinger.

    So Wolfinger recuses himself for an undisclosed and probably non-existant conflict of interest, letting Angela Corey take over. And where’s Wolfinger now? Who is holding him to account, asking what he knew and when he knew it? Nobody. Certainly not Corey, who comes from the same stable of Rick Scott cronies as Wolfinger, and had nothing but praise for Wolfinger at the press conference she gave when she took over the case.

    In my mind, Wolfinger is already many times the criminal George Zimmerman will be if he is found guilty of murder or manslaughter in the Martin case. GZ will have ended the life of a single innocent human being. Wolfinger has laid the path for repeated injustices on a mass scale, including additional slaughter of innocents, once the media stops looking.

    • I don’t think Wolfinger recused himself, I think the governor threw him under the bus.

      He announces he’s taking the case to the grand jury, 2 days later the governor announces the case has been turned over to Corey, and it doesn’t take her long to say she’s not going to the grand jury with it.

      I don’t think they want this case getting near a jury of any kind.

      unitron

  32. I’ve posted at kos more on this “circling” stuff as the most damning lie they seem to have GZ’s tail caught in a wringer over.

    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1101917/46553221

    What it says essentially is that they have him on tape contradicting himself on matters that strike at the heart of how the two traveled from the clubhouse to the T, and it strongly suggests that he’s pushed a deliberately false narrative to obscure or omit a likely car to pedestrian foot chase that caused TM to flee, much as I had already guessed even before having all this material to go by.

    Back when Frank Taafee was acting as a (self appointed?) surrogate to push this false narrative he gave a tv interview that was filled with obvious holes. I did some calculations and came to the conclusion that GZ couldn’t have been stationary when the “he’s coming to check me out” actions happened leading up to “sh*t he’s running.”

    Here are my old notes on this, now of course they need to be updated but you can see what I mean. TM moves for a minute or so and passes GZ in the middle somewhere but if he had a relatively constant speed he’d be out of sight before he ran unless GZ moves his car along with him. And that’s why TM ran – because GZ shadowed him with his SUV. GZ denies it but he’s caught lying about why.

    old notes

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/sets/72157629953200036/

    some new notes, not yet organized fully

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/sets/72157630287389764/

    be sure to view the notes accompanying the pics

    IMHO this is where the prosecution has GZ dead to rights caught in material falsehoods. They will use this as a center to build from.

  33. Just watched that reenactment video again

    5:04 “…he cut down here, and made a right. I guess it’s Twin Trees Lane.”

    Oh, so he DID know the name of that street.

    • Well, yeah, by the next day. The thing is, if you listen to the police call, he DOESN’T know the name of the street. And this is before anything has happened that he has any reason to fib about. He’s describing how to get to his truck when he sees TM pick up pace, says “Shit, he’s running” and leaves his big Honda.
      This is one of the reasons I wish they’d done a tox test on GZ. How does he forget the name of the street? (And, no, George, ADHD does not make you forget stuff…) His speech in the police call is slower and more drawn out than it is in the re-enactment or in his earlier police calls. It was around 7PM. He could have had a couple stiff after-work bumps, not enough to make him DWI drunk, but a little buzzed. I remember reading somewhere that the vast majority of violence in the US committed by ‘regular citizens’ rather than ‘career criminals’ is fueled by alcohol consumption.

      • I’d like to see some digging into Z’s movements in the hour or so before the shooting. Most discussion begin with the assumption that he left home when he said he did then focus on the start of his 911 call.

        It’s only a gut feeling, but my suspicion is that Z was out and about earlier than he indicates. Maybe the clubhouse and bank cameras will show something definite.

        Now just say Z had been observing, following, darting around and backtracking, both within the estate and outside prior to the 911 call. Given his excitable character and the complexity of his ‘undercover operations’, it seems feasible to me that he may have lost track of exactly where he was.

        I doubt that having just left home and following one of the two roads to the community gate, he would be in any doubt of his position.

        As soon as he admitted on the 911 call that he didn’t know his location, this paved the way for a continuation of the story to tie up loose ends.

        I sincerely hope that more investigation and details are forthcoming about Z’s movements in the time prior to him spotting Trayvon.

    • I meant to add to the comment I just posted that the issue is not that he forgot the name of Twin Trees at 7PM Sunday, but that he knew his not-knowing-of-the-name would be on the recording of his police call, and could have used that as the basis for concocting the “I went to RVC to find out where I was” tale.

      • I agree with you Whonoze. GZ totally ignores the name of the street is Twin Trees Ln.. I also agree that he tries to use it as an excuse for exiting his vehicle.
        The thing is that is amazing, and you show it very well in your youtube vid, is how GZ dares saying he could find any address while standing by 1211 TTL.

      • “The thing is, if you listen to the police call, he DOESN’T know the name of the street.”

        Good point. If he actually did know it, he probably would have mentioned it to the dispatcher before he got out of the car.

        Neighborhood watch doesn’t know the names of the three streets in his community. Maybe he was just projecting when he said Martin was “on drugs or something.”

      • That a really good analysis. Especially given he left a huge gap from the time of agreeing to stop following to the confrontation in his statements to police on Sunday. It was only the next day he came up with the street sign and looking for the address story as far as I can tell.

        It did seem like he really didn’t know the street on the call, and probably would have mentioned it if he knew when he was saying to go past the clubhouse before he got out his car. Maybe he was projecting when he said he seemed to “be on drugs or something”.

  34. Watched the East Pool video and have to agree w/tchoupi. A vehicle does appear to drive slowly away down TTL and then u-turn back towards the club house.

    We could argue timing, but that sort of move would suggest GZ turned back to watch TM as he made the SPD call. If he was following/chasing Trayvon at that time he would most likely have left his truck facing east as he claims in the reenactment.

    • tchoupi,

      Amsterdam was asking on Daily KOS if the lights/movement at 19:09 and 19:38 also appear as cars passing by.

      I thought they did.

      You?

      • Milo, Amsterdam,

        I’m noticing that the East Pool Hall vid I’m watching seems to be 8sec ahead (shorter). I have the lights at 19:01 & 19:31.

        Those lights are cars going toward the back entrance. You better see those cars (headlights then tail light) on the East Pool vid at 19:03 & 19:32.

        I have a complete list of all vehicles passing by the clubhouse. You can really link the lights event between the kitchen, game room, east pool hall & east pool depending on the route the vehicles take. I’m trying to generate a figure tracking all cars as I’ve generated the histogram that helped me putting a time stamp. It may take a short while.

        In the mean time, I found that the car that stopped by the mailboxes before moving on toward the back gate and making a u-turn actually drove very slowly by the mailboxes. This means that GZ actually, drove passed TM for 28sec, before going further east on TTL and making a u-turn. This must be when TM noticed GZ.

        Here are the detailed elements:

        There are headlights lighting TTL behind the mailboxes (east pool hall vid) and the townhouses near the pool (east pool vid) at 22:15 sharp (on both vids). However, no car takes the curve on TTL by the pool before 22:49, which is soon after the car that stopped behind the mailboxes (east pool hall @ 22:33) left toward the back gate (east pool hall @ 22:43). In every single instances, and there are more than 10, cars headlights lighting TTL behind the mailboxes can be linked to a car taking the curve by the pool on TTL within seconds. Therefore, we have an exception there. The interesting thing is that it is the same car that made a u-turn

        Here are the vids I use as reference.

      • Tchoupi,

        You’ve done an amazing job. But I don’t agree about the lights seen in the east pool hall, If you compare those lights with other cars driving on ttl towards the north gate, they are clearly different. I cannot reconcile the angle of those beams with the headlights of a car. The light is more intense than other cars driving towards the north gate.
        The pool and pool hall videos seem to be in sync, but the light into the poolhall is from 22:33 to 22:43, and you don’t see the headlights in the pool area until 23:31. They should have been seen at the same time.
        Would it be possible that a car was parked facing east on ttl. Lights were left on, somebody walked towards the pool hall with a flashlight. Walked back to his car and made a u turn?

        I still have a problem with the rear lights in 19:09 and 19:39 because you don’t see correlating lights in the game room. My sense is that the video in the game room is not in synch with the one in the pool hall and the pool.

      • I checked the pool hall video. At 23:42 you can see something moving towards the north gate.So that would fit the light in the pool area.

  35. New document dump 100% validates that GZ parked on the corner of TTL and stalked TM in his car. Later he lies about this in the video walk thru.

    His hand drawn map and description of his interview w singleton is released – see MSNBC for links

    http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/26/12420630-police-say-zimmerman-had-chances-to-defuse-situation-before-shooting-martin

    I’m out of here for beer. Months of deductive reasoning proved right.

    GZ pushed a false narrative about TM “doubling back” and circling to cover his car chase.

    Prosecution has him six ways to sunday on this lie. He all but ran the kid down with his car, then jumped out and ran after him and he’s lying about it AFTER admitting as much with his own hand drawing on a map.

    More later… too emotional to write more clearly, but read ANYTHING I’ve written weeks ago – it’s all proven correct.

    • good job WillisNewton. Enjoy the beer/s. Hey does anyone know where i can view all the evidence. Every time there is a release of new evidence it seems to be in different places and i can’t access the open channel msnbc site it just freezes on me every time.

      • oh glad your free NLME, sorry i wasn’t meaning to add any more pressure on you, i just couldn’t access the link given and want to see the sketch. I know you’ve been working really hard on putting together a place to view all the evidence and all of us here really appreciate it. I’m just not sure how they are releasing it all or through what forum. i’m a bit behind you guys (well in front technically). Is it the different media sites that get their hands on it and report it or is there an official release from the defense/court/whoever? And can anyone post another link to that sketch Willis mentioned because my computer hates that msnbc website as much as i hate last call in a bar…

  36. All the digging into the re-enactment and the surveillance videos is great, but there’s a big issue that I don’t think has been properly discussed here yet. W11 (the woman who placed the first 911 call on which the screams and shot are recorded) is backing GZ’s account 100%. In her recorded statement to Serino on 3/2 she says she heard the confrontation begin up on the E-W sidewalk just where GZ says it started,and then she heard it move past her window to the south. She also says it was GZ screaming, etc. etc.
    Now, listening to this recording, I pick up cues that she, her fiance Jeremy (W20), John (W6) and GZ have all gotten together after the 2/27 re-enactment and co-ordinated their stories. I can’t ‘prove’ this, but listen closely for yourself.

    I have been suspicious of W11 and W20 ever since I first discovered they reported they didn’t see anything. I don’t understand how the shouting in the background could come through that clear unless the phone was in a line-of-sight to the source (It’s a question of tonal balance, not volume. The sound is crisp, not muffled, and crispness is all about high frequencies that don’t go around corners…). Jeremy’s statement that he went to the kitchen to get a knife (the kitchen is in the front of the end units, away from the back door) doesn’t parse with W11 yelling at him to ‘get down’ etc.

    I’ve wondered if Jeremy owns the truck that is always parked on the curve of Twin Trees, just South of the sidewalk. (Other info suggests he works out of his home.) There are two people putting stuff in or getting stuff out of this truck in the background of the GZ re-enactment video. So maybe W11 and W20 saw GZ do his walk-through with the cops. W11 says she knows him from the neighborhood association, and refers to him as “George,” in her statement, so it’s not hard to imagine that after the cops left, she called out, ‘Hey George, what was that all about?”

    I don’t know if I’m getting paranoid, but this case is starting to seem like an episode of ‘House.’ i.e. “Everybody lies.” I know GZ isn’t telling the truth. I’m pretty sure DeeDee isn’t telling the truth. I suspect W6, W11 and W20 are not telling the truth… The only person I trust here at this point is The Teacher, who so many people just disregard as traumatized and confused.

    It’s one thing for geeks to closely parse surveillance videos and try to make inference from little blips of light, but this kind of thing probably makes juries fall asleep. A witness who says, “this is what I heard and saw” is likely to carry a lot more weight, even though science shows witness accounts are much less reliable than forensics. If W6, W11 and W20 are all corroborating GZ, he’s got a shot at getting a jury to believe him.

    So it strikes me that “What is to be done?” right now is to really interrogate those witness statements, their contradictions with each other, with known timeline facts established by GZ police call (not much help given how early it ends)n the re-enactment, and the contradictions with their 911 calls. (Alas, contradictions with DeeDee’s account are likely to be useless, as I expect her to collapse like a house of cards if the prosecution calls her to the stand…)

    • re: the two people by the Ford truck at the cut thru – one of them is probably Robert Zimmerman, Sr., who was reported to have been present at the walk thru and watched from a distance. This was reported in the NYT, and the source was “familiar with the investigation.” I did not see them putting anything into that truck. (That truck may not even run, for all I know – it’s always there it seems like… )

      ABC’s Matt Gutman allegedly claimed in a twitter that Serino was a leaker to the press. This may be a rumor that sprang up in the wake of today’s story about Serino getting transferred to patrol duty by his own request at the same pay. Orlando sentinel had that story.

    • Yep. I really feel for Dee Dee. She is young, unsophisticated, neither glib nor slick. Just a simple kid and I’m sure the prosecution realises this.

      The defence team will need to handle her cross-examination carefully because I, for one, find her a sincere and sympathetic witness.

      • I agree. It is mentioned a lot how she stumbles of the telling of someone bumping TM. This may not be deception rather someone recalling a traumatic experience. We must remember, this is her describing the last time she had contact with TM, and she was unable to get him to answer her back to figure out what happened, and moments later came his death. The defense needs to handle her carefully because if they act like Robert Zimmerman Sr. or Frank Taaffe, the judge/jury surely is not going to like that.

  37. Do you have a link to W11’s audio statement?

    I’m with you, though. I feel like I’m getting paranoid, and the conspiracies are starting to swirl in my head more frequently. I have always thought there was something odd about those three witnesses. My thoughts about W6 are in the May 14 post. My problems with W11 and W20 are exactly what you say. Hm, was Jeremy in a white shirt that night? Are they simply coordinating stories to back GZ? John’s story doesn’t add up, and I don’t believe these two don’t know more. It sounded like they were RIGHT THERE, but they saw nothing? If that much came through the phone, how did they not hear more of what was going on outside? Did GZ stop at that house? Did GZ tell them a thief ran behind the houses, and to get their phone in case something happened? I don’t know if that could fit in the timeline, but I just don’t get a good vibe from those three. Yes, their statements need to be dissected, and they need to be interviewed again. Also, I’m uncertain on DeeDee. I need to hear her tell her story uninterrupted, but I do think she said/acted in ways that made her story seem…odd. I’m not sure if she’s saying things as intentional lies or if she really does believe GZ went after TM and confronted first. I think she’s trying hard to say the right thing, but I don’t think she’s been coached. I think the most useful thing that will come from DeeDee is simply the fact that TM was on the phone, which would just make a planned attack seem strange.

    With W6, W11, and W20, I don’t know what will happen. W6 won’t be a great witness just because of his multiple statements, and how they have changed from one to the next. W11 admits she knows him, but not well, just from brief encounters relating to the HOA and NW.

    I think the teacher is a strong witness. People want to disregard her as a crazy old bat, but she gave a LONG statement, and it has NOT changed. I believe she might have mentioned in one of her statements she believed the argument was someone being detained, but that when it continued was when she grabbed the phone and went to look out the window. I don’t think she was confused, I think she witnessed GZ shooting TM. No one utters, “I DON’T WANT TO BE A WITNESS” if they didn’t see anything of relevance. This woman didn’t sound confused, she sounded terrified and what she heard and witnessed. GZ doesn’t have a “young” voice to me. She is clear that their was a loud argument where both sounded to angry. GZ acts as if he were totally chill when the two came into contact. His claim is he said, “No, I don’t have a problem, man.” That doesn’t really fit with the witnesses hearing a loud argument. No one screams that phrase unless they really do mean they have a problem or are insinuating the other has the problem. In addition, she claimed she was looking out the window when this all went down, and she never saw anything GZ described after the shot. She is very clear on the point that seconds after the shot GZ is up and standing, and that she never sees the second person move again. She called GZ the broader man before ever seeing the photos released by the media. In addition, didn’t she make the spontaneous utterance on the phone of something along the lines of “OMG, he just walked up to him and shot him?” I don’t know, but I think she is pretty solid as a witness, and she never waffled in her statement, and doesn’t seem to have been influenced by PD or the other residents. In addition, IIRC, I saw Angela Corey in an interview with someone state she believed one person *saw* it all. I think she meant this witness.

  38. He’s got no shot at an acquittal because he’s caught in a web of lies and no jury would trust him with a burnt match by the time the prosecution is done explaining how, where and why he lied.

    Interesting theory of yours about a gaggle of witnesses entering into a criminal conspiracy, but what possible reason would these good folks have to enter into such a conspiracy, and if they did, why not make up a better tale than “I didn’t see but this one part of it?”

    Others claim Dee Dee was coached, but why wasn’t she “coached” into saying she heard a death threat from GZ?

    Conspiracy theories are all the same – they start with a premise and look for any alleged evidence to prove the theory.

    • I do not believe DeeDee was coached. See my analysis of her statements at http://whonoze.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/deedees-account/

      Nor am I necessarily positing a ‘grand conspiracy.’ If W6, W11 and W20 all know GZ from the neighborhood association, and are on goods terms with him, it’s only natural that they would talk about this unusual and dramatic incident. If you knew GZ, wouldn’t you ask him, “WTF happened George?” And if you thought him to be a stand-up guy, whatever he said might fill in blanks with things you didn’t hear or see all that well, and your brain goes ‘aha!’ and that becomes how you remember it. This might be all that’s going on in W11’s account. Other issues, like the apparent discrepencies between the recorded statements and the 911 call regarding whether Jeremy was in the kitchen etc., could just be motivated by “don’t want to get involved”.

      By your definition, my questions about W11 and W20 are not a conspiracy theory because they started with evidence: the clarity of the background audio suggesting a line of sight. From the first time I heard that recording I said to myself “They have to have seen something.” I’ve been involved in field audio recording for over 40 years, and I know how hard it is to get intelligible recordings, and what factors are involved.

      • jeremy must have seen something because she keeps telling him to get down, he must have been peering out the window. Now i could be wrong but didn’t someone ask GZ what gun he used and it was speculated it may be Jeremy…i can’t remember but think i read something about that somewhere.

      • @jo

        I, too, think Jeremy might have seen something before or after the shot. I only see two reasons in that situation to tell someone “get down.” One would be if the person was in the path that a 2nd shot could hit. She might have thought a 2nd shot might occur, and didn’t want him to be downstairs or by any windows. Also, in a situation like that, you might tell someone to get down if they are peering out a window, and you don’t want the person/people outside to know you witnessed something. At some point, we know Jeremy was not in the same room because she yells at him “get in here.”

        Also, I think Jon M. asked what kind of gun GZ used, not Jeremy. I believe he was the one GZ is referring to in the reenactment as the person he thought was the police at first. I think this is the same guy he had call his wife, too. This is the witness that stated GZ was cool as a cucumber after, and acted like the shooting was nothing, I believe. I think he asked about the gun after GZ said he had to shoot the guy because he was beating up on him. Someone will correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t think Jeremy and/or his wife went outside until police had arrived. I don’t know when or if the other John went outside/back outside/whatever after he said he told them he’d call 911.

  39. I have added a map of the clubhouse’s cameras with an evaluation of corresponding view ranges.
    I have also added a correlation table of the events caught by the cameras. It globally what car, what routes & when. The route in red is very likely GZ’s.

    Later, I’ll draw another map showing the route GZ really took as told by the clubhouse cameras. That route is very different from the one GZ told police. Interestingly, it confirms DeeDee’s statement that TM was at the mailboxes when he spotted a GZ in his truck. It also confirms the reconstitution made in this blog, particularly by NMLE, that is that, when on the phone wit police, GZ was parked on TTL, facing west in order to see the mailboxes. That reconstitution was based entirely on GZ’s call, and we got it right. Finally, as I’ve posted earlier, it shows GZ drove by TM at a very slow pace when TM was at the mailboxes. GZ actually stopped meaning that they surely had eye contact.

    Same link: http://imgur.com/a/bcAII

    • Woah — I salute you! THIS is some excellent work.

      I was disheartened to learn that Zimmerman may have parked north of the clubhouse and then moved to a position facing east on Twin Trees before exiting his vehicle in pursuit of Trayvon. While the timing didn’t make much sense it seemed pretty tough to disprove given what’s currently known/released.

      Well, you’ve done the tough work. Thank you!

      • Thanks. Tough work is what it was. I have totally dried out eyes now.

        I have to say the East Pool Hall video is special. When I watch it, I can’t help thinking about the kid being behind the walls, chatting on the phone with DeeDee, and then comes that car…

    • Yeoman’s work, for sure. Well done, tchoupi.

      Video images are powerful stuff. Hope the prosecution can present in a coherent manner. Maybe arrange multiple screens to represent the different views from inside the clubhouse.

      I’m having a hard time figuring why GZ thought it would be better to tell SPD he made the call at the clubhouse.

      • The thoughts surrounding this question is my personal axe to grind and i hope my area of expertise. GZ works very hard in his statements to police to leave out TM’s running at all. Singleton is the one who brings it up, not GZ.

        IMO GZ is pushing a false narrative that he is caught red handed in when he claims TM “circled” his vehicle while doubling back from the T, the story he tells in the “re-enactment” video. Shortly after, back at the cop shop the investigators play the 311 call for him and he repeatedly insists the “coming to check me out/ hand in his waistband” action is describing action while he is still parked in his initial position.

        But with the latest document dump came a hand drawn map that we have audio of GZ and Singleton preparing. GZ initially makes a mark where he is parked on the curve of TTL but immediately decides to cross it out and put the mark near what i call the “Frank Taafee” position closer to the cut thru.

        I’ve written a lot about it on my flickr site and it seems to be dovetailing INDEPENDENTLY with all the pool hall camera stuff, which I have not researched or been influenced by. In fact, several people on both sides of the fence about GZ’s credibility agreed weeks ago that this was the likely position that matches the audio best.

        The larger implication and why GZ may have pushed this false narrative is that you can infer from this position that there was a slow motion car to pedestrian chase down TTL and that when TM got close to the cut thru corner, he ran off the roadway and behind the buildings with GZ in close pursuit. He ran because he was being stalked by a guy in a car, who moved when he moved and slowly followed him east on TTL.

        GZ avoids telling this by skipping the middle position where he observed TM by the mailboxes – it likely involved a U-turn to face north and then another to chase TM once the “axxhole (that always get away)” passed his vehicle.

        Only like Serino says, he wasn’t a goon.

        It’s long, and repetitive, but here are my notes on all this:

        http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/sets/72157630287389764/

        be sure to read the notes that go with the pics. If you view it in slideshow mode, check the “show info” box upper left, but it’s probably better NOT to view in that mode.

    • @tchoupi – in the picture you posted – Clubhouse Security Video – Kitchen – I clearly see the confessed killer in the shot on the phone.

      • I mean where? Is he sitting on the sofa?

        OK you got me. I’m too tired for this stuff…

      • Amsterdam at Daily Kos places that image at 20.51 into the kitchen video. First there’s some changes of light, then a fairly bright one fills the window then turns blindingly bright. The “figure” princss6 is talking about shows up when the blinding light disappears. It then disappears. It is not an artifact, it’s absent before the bright lights show. ‘

        And it is there, Tchoupi, in your kitchen video, at the left pane of the window on the right of the screen.

      • tchoupi thinks that image is the truck driving on rv towards the north gate. I don’t agree. In Tchoupi’s wonderfull correlation map, if you compare other events as cars driving on rv towards the north gate, you only see a faint light passing by the kitchen window. See 11:09, 22:31 and 30:20 for example. If this is a truck, it must have pulled up towards the clubhouse.

        I must say it is awfully difficult to put together.

      • tchoupi,
        I think what we are seeing at 20:43 is the side image of the truck pulling up at the clubhouse. There is a wall with a window perpendicular to the kitchen window, and what we see is what is reflected in that window. I also think that there is about a 1 minute 20 seconds difference between the game room/ kitchen videos and the pool pool hall videos. Kitchen and game room start later.
        The image in the kitchen is after what you describe as the uturn on ttl. I think he was looking for Trayvon near the mail area. Didn’t see him at first, got into his car, drove back towards rv and while driving spotted Trayvon. He pulled into that parking spot in front of the clubhouse he mentions in the walk-through, but almost immediately backed out again and drove back to the corner of ttl.

      • In the still shot you posted of the Clubhouse Security Video – Kitchen. I see a jacket, white t-shirt, hand up, talking on the phone. The window is double-paned. If you look at the left pane, I believe that is the confessed killer walking past the window on his cellphone.

      • Hi Amsterdam and welcome.

        Yes there are different times in the videos. I think Tchoupi co-ordinated the times by working backwards from when the emergency vehicle showed up. But you two seem to have different areas marked for the camera locations, specifically East Pool Hall.

        But it is great to have two sets of expert eyes on it.

        Is there some technical way of getting 4 vids to play at once on the one screen? That would help with getting the sense of movement. (My video abilities stop at clicking the play button, so….)

      • We have the pool hall video and the pool video at the same location. That was my update. The difficult part is to figure out whether the videos are in synch. Tchoupi has them all synchronized. I don’t believe that is the case. I think the pool and pool hall video are in synch and the kitchen and game room are in synch. But they can’t be all in synch together. I use the arrival of the emergency vehicles for timing too. That is the only event that is recognizable and we have a time for that. But to really see what is coming and going, the videos have to be in synch. I can see when a car is driving on ttl going towards the east gate, and one that is driving on ttl towards the nort gate, but in either case, I have to see car lights in the game room. But events in the game room don’t allways line up in time.
        There is an awfull lot of activity between 19 min and 23:30 min. We get those videos in line, we will know what the exact sequence is.
        Tchoupi’s chart is a great help. I started putting one together, but his looks better.
        Maybe you want to take a look at the chart. Fresh eyes may help.
        I focussed on the 19:01 and 19:31 ones in the pool area. As you can see in the chart 2 cars right behind each other on ttl, going towards the east gate. But no correlating event in the game room. I think that may line up with the activity starting somewhere around 21 min in the game room.
        My eyes are tired, so I’ll take a little break.

  40. Milo says: “I’m having a hard time figuring why GZ thought it would be better to tell SPD he made the call at the clubhouse.”

    This is a fair question. and I’m afraid I can only guess the answer to that question.

    Through out his story, George Zimmerman tries to make us believe a few things:
    1) GZ want us to believe that TM was one of those burglars.
    GZ starts his account with telling about past break-ins.
    He places the beginning of the events where the last break-in occurred.
    2) GZ wants us to believe that he never followed TM.
    This might be why he stated that he parked at the clubhouse
    since he claims that he spotted TM at Taafee’s house, he couldn’t
    go park on TTL without a crystal ball to say where TM will go.
    3) GZ wants us to believe that TM went after him.
    GZ clearly emphasize on that. He places 3 periods when TM
    walked toward/by GZ. The 1st one when he is parked at the clubhouse.
    The 2nd one when TM circles his car. The last one is when he comes
    to beat him up.

    • The prosecution is going to have to concentrate on what they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt at a trail. GZ killed the other witness to the events, and is able to claim whatever he pleases so long as there is no evidence or witness testimony to refute it beyond a reasonable doubt.

      GZ has done a lot of questionable things that night and since, and while it’s fine to speculate about what went on in the missing minutes and while the fight is heard inthe backgound of 911 calls when it comes to trial I think the recorded 311 call is going to be something that can be held up consistently and continually as a benchmark against GZ’s story told to investigators in their various versions. I think the prosecution’s strategy will to be first to destroy GZ’s credibility, (what’s left of it after the passport and pay pal issue, that is) then suggest an overall but slightly vague narrative that fits the same evidence that GZ uses to claim self defense, only in a manner that shows criminal conduct and yes, depraved mindset.

      The “affidavit of probable cause” or whatever it is suggests this strategy already – that GZ profiled, then pursued TM with intent to confront him and did so, and then shot him. No one knows how the fight began but the prosecution doesn’t have to prove it can show how it started – they just have to show that GZ is not credible and so whatever he says happened is up for grabs at best.

      Using the statements GZ gave police, and deductive reasoning to show he’s lied and contradicted himself about the way he arrived at the cut thru, and lied about how TM doubled back and “circled” his car utterly destroys his credibility. I’m not sure what the legal path is, but how could a jury believe what GZ says about the rest of the fight after he’s clearly lied about getting there?

      There are many questions about how the body ends up south of the T, and why the evidence and forensics don’t match his statements/ story exactly, but this case of the circling/doubling back is one in which GZ is caught dead to rights lying to investigators on two occasions, and at the 3rd questioning session on the 29th, he’s even given the opportunity to come clean and he instead repeatedly insists on pushing the false story.

      I realize this is my pet theory and all, but it seems like an incredibly strong arm to lead a legal fight with. Many other avenues of weakness to his story can also be attacked, but as of yet I don’t see one that has such a cut and dried path to convincing a jury that there is no other way to view the story. The recorded 311 call sets a timeline, but once it ends GZ is much more free to retreat into his fantasy version of events.

      If a jury can be made to see anything in the clubhouse videos – an area I am unsure about, but may show promise when combined with the drawings, interview tapes and video contrasted with the 311 timeline/observations there may be the full trifecta to send him up the river – lies, contradictions and independent photographic evidence of these lies.

      • Willi,

        I’m with you 100%. All you have to show is that GZ isn’t credible, and there is no lack of evidence for that.

  41. OKAY, if the clubhouse videos now show him cruising past the mailboxes and doing a u-turn in TTL….

    1) it does not exclude his having first stopped at the clubhouse (maybe with lights doused) and walked around for a quick look. This would be a possible move if he thought TZ had gone down RVC from Taaffe’s area but didn’t see where to (for example by having seen him enter the shortcut from Orlando Ave but not been quick enough to see him exit it inside the estate).

    2) facing WEST in TTL means there’s no way he could see the T junction in the doggie path. Not only from the dark and rain, but from the angle. Which means if he says TM ran “towards the back entrance” he can only have seen him run DOWN TTL, not down the path.

    He did admit in the Serino interview that the “circled my car” was really just TM “walking around it” which he’d have to do if the car was blocking his route.

    This way we are back to square one.
    a) TM runs down TTL and ducks into the second unpaved cut-through. GZ goes through the FIRST cut-through hoping to see him emerge on the other end.
    b) Not seeing him, figures he may have gone through to RVC, so goes through the other unpaved cut-through onto RVC. Where he doesn’t see TM, who is still resting up in the first one he entered.
    c) Meanwhile TM exits the cut-through and goes south towards his house, while GZ is going south on RVC. At the back gate, failing to see TM, he starts back up the doggie path, and there is TM at his own porch, on the phone. Suddenly he says “get them to call me….”
    d) TM is “cornered’ as DeeDee says. Only way to go is north.
    e) 30 seconds later DeeDee hears TM say Why are you following? THis is 1/2 way or more up the path. Small scuffle. Both keep going.
    f) at top of T TM does take a swing, maybe DOES knock GZ down (or he slips and falls from ducking it). TM foolishly thinking it’s over, goes back to the middle area to pickup his things.
    g) GZ goes after him and draws on him to detain him. TM has no choice than to tackle him to the ground and hold him down, so he can’t lift the gun arm.

    • That sounds good and can explain most of the timing. Timing is key in this case.
      The other point I find important is the fact that GZ suddenly changes his mind and says “get them to call me…”. I’m pretty sure that was the result of seeing/hearing TM again.

    • Many here have always believed George Zimmerman stalked Trayvon Martin by car first before chasing after him on foot. The more evidence to back that up the better.

      I don’t believe Zimmerman was AT the clubhouse when he called dispatch, but I think he’s making sure he mentions it just in case he was caught on the community’s surveillance tapes (and it seems he was ca ught on those vids).

      Zimmerman mentioned knowing that the front gate surveillance tape was out of order, so he probably (in hind sight) thought about what may have been caught on the other surveillance tapes that worked and changed his story to cover that part.

  42. Princess6 & Amsterdam,

    This is all very interesting. Thanks for challenging my work.

    I have to say, I fail seeing a person. Particularly a person on a phone. What I see is the right rear of a truck. I have modified the image of concern check it out (http://imgur.com/a/bcAII).

    Concerning not seeing cars thru that same window in other instances, you should be careful as the cameras only take a picture per second. So, the odds of a vehicle moving at 15mph in that narrow frame are slim. Therefore, most images will not catch the car. This is also why, only the East Pool video clearly show cars (headlight, tail light) as they move to or away from the camera.

    Finally, if GZ was on the phone at 20:50 (7:09pm) then we should see the vehicle of Officer T. Smith at around 26:50 (7:11pm). This falls right in the middle of the traffic gap by the club house. There is one vehicle on TTL caught by East Pool & East Pool Hall vids, but it goes toward the north gate (T. Smith comes from the north gate). The first vehicle that could possibly be T. Smith’s is seen at the north gate at 30:54. It actually is the 1st of the 2 instances where a red light can be seen (East Pool Hall @ 31:08)

    • I typed my time wrong: T. Smith should be seen at around 28:50 (7:17pm). The conclusion remains.

    • I saw a person in the dailykos before it was removed. I only saw it on a computer with higher resolution than I’m capable of achieving on another computer.

      I was checking out your new analysis and found it fantastic and liked the way you told the story, but I don’t know how to use your site fully. Can you explain?

      I tried to click the vids, but nothing happened, so I concluded you grabbed screenshots while watch a video. If that’s the case, can you add links to the video so we can see what you mean by this is at such and such a point in the video? (If you can and if it’s not too much work.) If that’s not the case, can you tell me how to see the video you watched to compare what you say to the actual video?

      I also can’t enlarge your analysis tables although I’m sure it’s good info I’d want to see.

      • Thanks for the complement and the recommendation CSFC.
        I have added the links to the 4 main videos. That was a great idea.

        Concerning your question about zooming in, there are 2 options:
        1) The full view resolution – Put the cursor on the image. A mag glass appears at the top right corner of the image. By clicking on it, a new tab opens with the image blown up.
        2) Simple magnification (the best) – Put the cursor on the image. If that image can be magnified, the cursor turns into a mag glass. Right Click on the image it will blow up.

  43. I agree with princess that someone fitting Zimmerman’s description is seen on the clubhouse surveillance video. The red jacket, the gray jacket and the light face is seen in the glass door.

    • Woops! Let me clarify… The red jack with gray panels in the jacket and the face that looks like Zimmerman’s face is seen on the clubhouse surveillance video. Didn’t see Trayvon in the video.

  44. Guys I started to make up a map with all the basic info on it. But it took so long I am too tired to put any suggested movements onto it.

    So here it is, feel free to use it to mentally mark up times.

    The grid is done so one small square is 8 seconds walking or 4 seconds running. I figured that would be easier for matching up with phone call timings, than taking outright distances.

    If you want to scribble on it, and, like me, are not much into graphics work, do a screenshot of it and paste into Paint, which every Windows computer has.

    Thanks, Tchoupi, I borrowed your witness locations.

  45. just a couple of thoughts in no particular order.

    Has there been any mention in any of the evidence released about how Trayvons hands ended up underneath him? I don’t remember seeing anything in the interviews or any explanation given as to how Zimmerman moved his hands apart but they were then found under him?

    Did anyone else mention seeing Zimmerman spread Tray’s arms? I know they saw him put his hands on his back and appear to be looking for something. Perhaps he was looking for an exit wound.

    I think it seems strange to everyone that gz said he grabbed trayvons hands and spread them after the shot and that it would be more likely that he would hold him at gun point. A couple of ideas about this are:

    1) perhaps the kick back smacked him in the nose and he dropped the gun in the grass as he apparently told someone. (just another contradiction, was it “the gun is in the grass” or “i still had my gun in my hand”) but wanted them to think he was still holding his gun because he knows that is what caused his nose injury.

    or

    2) he had tried to detain Trayvon by holding his wrists/hands (would explain the spread of debris as Trayvon would have likely been pulling away, backwards, trying to release his hands). GZ might have realised this might have left bruising/dna on Trayvons hands so he made up an excuse of trying to detain him after the shot to explain away how any bruising may have appeared around the wrist (although i don’t think there was any but had he grabbed trayvons wrists during the struggle he might have expected there to be some)

    Did anyone check if the back of Trayvons hoodie was wet before they turned him over for CPR? This could indicate that Trayvon had been on his back at some point during the struggle as well…

    In the reenactment GZ acts out how he felt Trayvons hand slide down his body to grab the gun, but he indicated the hand slid across his chest and ended under zimmermans inner bicep of steel. What arm was he sliding accross zimmermans body from across the chest? left, right? It doesn’t seem natural either way. And why would he slide his hand at all, wouldn’t he just sit up and grab at the gun (he would have to move his own leg back as well since he is apparently sitting on top). And why would his hand end up under gz’s inner bicep of steel anyway? that’s not the direction of the gun. If someone stuck there hand there on my body i would be anticipating a good under arm tickle before i would suspect they were going to go for my gun holstered at my waist towards the back.

    So many questions. I know some of these ideas might be a bit far fetched but nothing in this case would surprise me anymore….

    • Awesome! I understand that one much better. Also saw the links and will take a look.

      Curious.. Why didn’t use any of the footage from the front doors?

      • I used the front door vids as a way to validate my interpretations of what I see on the kitchen & the game room vid. However, because the front door vid caught less events, it is not worth the effort presenting the data log I made for it.

        Why is there less events caught by the front camera? Simply, because that camera only shoot at the front door in a narrowly confined area, and all events happened behind the camera. So, all you can get are light reflections on the glass window and lighting of the walls.

  46. ok I tried to make sense of times.

    I drew up GZ parked at clubhouse and Trayvon running around corner. This is where GZ claims he tells the dispatcher “he’s running”.

    From here it takes GZ 3 or 4 secs to get to his alleged parking spot, It takes TM 100 seconds to get there. So GZ could not have started to follow immediately OR he went and parked there and TM walked past him from behind. NO WAY TM had time to get into the doggie path plus come back again.

    The other problem, which I didn’t put on the map, is that on the tape GZ got out and started running just after he said Trayvon ran, which on this story would put GZ running from the clubhouse or mailboxes (the original location he Xed on the map for the first police interview).

    That would actually fit better, as he also would have to take 100 seconds running along the east-west section. But we know from the tape he only ran for about 26 – 32 secs, so TM would have had time to get to the T and turn towards the back entrance. Trouble with THAT though is, GZ said he’s going towards the back entrance 80 seconds earlier, ie before he got out of the truck.

    1) it is obvious GZ was not at the clubhouse when he called the police
    2) the only place he could have been, to fit with “He’s running” and getting out of the truck, is on the second bend of TTL, fairly close to where he claims he eventually parked. This is so whether TM ran down TTL or the doggie path.
    3) I believe when he said “he ran down TTL” that is true, except it was from that second bend, not from the clubhouse bend.
    4) he CLAIMS he was at the clubhouse, innocently ringing the non-emergency line, for the purpose of making out TM walked up behind him, and he was not following him.
    But he immediately ruins this display of innocence by backing out and turning into TTL to FOLLOW HIM, except miraculously TM jumped 500 feet (100 seconds worth) to get to the T junction on foot faster than GZ could drive there.

    Tomorrow I might try looking at the other end of the story.

    I wish they’d hurry up and release that bank surveillance video.

    • What’s clear is that when GZ told investigators he was “by the clubhouse” during the 2/29 3rd recording he could not have meant the clubhouse parking lot and been correct. The movements don’t match the recording.

      I think he is at the FIRST bend, or close to it possibly having made a U turn. The timing of he’s coming to check me out/ waistband holding does NOT seem to work out if he is all the way down by the second bend/cut thru.

      It DOES work out very well if GZ is at the first bend, which he indicated on a map when initially questioned by SIngleton.

      I think TM walked from the mailbox area, passed GZ when GZ says “These axxholes always get away” and then GZ puts his car in gear and presumably follows the teen, causing him to run 30 seconds later. This 30 secnds is a key to understanding the position, since if GZ was at the cut thru already TM would have walked out of sight in that time – he clearly does not, as indicated by the “sh*t, he’s running” comment and the exiting of the vehicle and admission of following.

      It’s the “long tail” to the timing that proves thru deductive reasoning that GZ was at or near the first corner as TM passes him.

      Look here for some illustrations regarding this speculation on my part:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/sets/72157630287389764/with/7421584382/

      I think the surveillance video may be useful in establishing movements of GZ but that it has to be used in concert with other knowledge of the incidents, and that what “thcoupl” is suggesting with his latest map may not be fully accurate regarding where the u turn takes place. The distances from the east pool camera are difficult to judge, and I’d say to him to be careful not to make assumptions based on where GZ said he parked – we don’t have any independent evidence that he is telling the truth in his re-eneactment.

      • I agree with your remark concerning where GZ parked. I’ll rephrase my statement in a way to reflect the uncertainty you point at. I’ll keep the fact that the car parked on TTL between the two curves and facing the clubhouse.

        Thanks for your comment. I appreciate.

    • Aussie,

      watch out, the townhouses over there are significantly narrower than what you drew. With the width you assumed, you end up stretching the crime seen way too south from the T.

      To get a better idea of the houses, you can do the following: switch to the map view on googlemap, use zillow, use the seminole county appraiser website (they show all the property records)

      The house block on the TTL (12xx TTL) has 5 addresses. The house block on RVC across the walkway has 6 addresses. All townhouses are 2 storeys. There are only 2 floorplans: 1) the end-of-block house (ex. Jeremy’s) has 3 BRs, 2) the middle-of-block house (ex. John’s) have 2 BRs.

      From the topdown view on googlemap you can see the Bathroom of every single house protruding at the back of the house. This is the easiest marker you can get.

      • Actually, there are three floorplans. All the middle units have the same square footage, but some are divided into 3BR (‘The Cancun’) and some into 2BR (‘The Dominica’). This doesn’t make a difference as far as the witnesses are concerned, though. All the middle units have the same first floor plan, though, which differs distinctly from the first floor layout of the end units (‘The Abaco’) . This does matter in terms of identifying where people say they were, especially when the reference the kitchen, which is in the back in the middle units, and toward the front of the end units.

        http://www.407re.com/RetreatatTwinLakes

        Click on the names of the units in the table to see the floor plans.

      • Tchoupi I made up my grid overlay precisely from the distance marker on the original map. The map itself is a straight screenshot.

        I agree possible I may have put the red X a bit too far south, though it seems to me lined up with John’s place whose backyard it was in.

  47. In the tchoupi’s kitchen (clubhouse) video screen capture, I see the right rear quarter panel of a Honda Ridgeline. The middle bar of the window/door is level with the lower part of the truck’s body. The truck is viewed just about the same angle as the accompanying file pic.

    Along with GZ’s movements in the truck, these videos establish a timeline based on the documented appearance of Officer Smith.

    GZ makes the u-turn and faces the clubhouse just before he calls the SPD NEN.

    • That truck seems awfully close to the kitchen window if that’s what you see. I’m not saying I disagree I just want to follow the speculation a bit further- I just think maybe if that’s what it is, that it seems to have pulled in across the parking spaces, perhaps more consistent with an action of chasing TM as he cuts thru to the mailboxes than if he were still behind the SUV walking down RVC towards the clubhouse.

      The image also seems to only last for one frame. Maybe GZ turns his lights off?

      • Willi,

        Actually it is the opposite. Have a look to the figure labelled “location of cameras…” to understand what I describe below. The figure shows the evaluation of the visibility range we get from the cameras.

        The cameras from the kitchen and the game room show the same window from 2 different angles. So, you can see the parking spot right by the window and RVC in the back. Any event occurring by the window (ex. a person on a phone) must be caught by both cameras at the same time. Any event occurring on RVC away from the window must be caught by both cameras with delays.

        Most cars passing on RVC show a ~2sec delay between the 2 cameras. Depending on the direction of the car, the light is seen first either on the kitchen vid or on the game room vid.

        The large majority of the light events show 2sec delay. Some show longer delays because driving slower.

        ####

        No, GZ doesn’t turn off the light. You can only blame it on the low sampling rate of the cameras (1frame/sec) and their narrow view range.

      • I’m confused now. Opposite of what? I’m trying to agree with you here. Perhaps an illustration of where the SUV is parked on a aerial view would help.

        speculative photo illustration

        Is this what you see? It seems possible, but like I said the form of the car is awfully large in the frame.

        here’s another illustration, crude but effective

        crude illustration for speculation

        is this what you see?

    • It took some effort to find a picture of a Honda Ridgeline similar to GZ’s taken from an angle that is close enough to illustrate what is to be seen through the window. So, I’m happy to read that the effort is paying off. Thanks Milo.

  48. Listening again to the tapes: NO SELF DEFENSE

    Serino Tape 2 starting at 27.02 to 28.29
    They are talking about how the fight went down. GZ saying TM had “pressure on my nose and mouth, suffocating me”.. Then TM starts to reach toward the gun and says “you’re going to die”.

    “he let go so I didn’t need my hand anymore ‘cos he let go of my mouth …” (NEVER having said what defensive or other moves he was needing it for earlier)

    ” that’s when I grabbed his hand and I grabbed…grabbed my firearm and I fired”.

    (…Talk about what kind of gun…)

    Then Serino says “so you’d overpowered him, had his wrist, we call that wrist control, so you had wrist control on him….”

    GZ says moved his gun hand around “not wanting to hit my own hand that I was holding him with …I aimed past my hand…”

    SO
    There was a time when GZ had both hands free, had Trayvon HELD BY THE WRIST and in a position to HOLD HIM AT GUNPOINT. In other words he had the UPPER HAND therefore was in no further DANGER OF DEATH.

    Serino then offers a cold drink and GZ grabs the opportunity to change the subject, to again deny he’d been told to stop following.

    • wow so he didn’t hold travons hand under his bicep, he held his wrist. And he was obviously so fearfull of his life that he could think clearly and rationally enough to make sure he didn’t shoot his own hand. Such clarity for a near vegetable in a life or death struggle. Wow aussie that is a really good find. There are so many different things that this could mean. Nothing that man says is even possible. He was holding Trayvons wrist so he wouldn’t get away.

      I really think what he said to Singleton is very important. He asked if she had shot (or killed?) someone and she said no, and he said something along the lines of how she wouldn’t have to because people would listen to her, or do what she says, or something like that. Does that mean he has killed because Trayvon wouldn’t listen to him or do what he said? This was mentioned by another person here a while back but i cant remember who it was sorry.

  49. IF someone is mounted over you he can use both hands to punch. Taking it in turns with the hands, his weight is always on or behind one of them. Or he can rest one hand on the ground (or better still, on your shoulder) while repeatedly punching with the other.

    If one arm is held, if he’s in any leaning-forward position (as needed for further punching) he will fall flat on his face (well maybe ONTO yours, but he’ll lose his balance for sure). OR he can lean back (ie SIT UP) in order not to fall, putting him at a distance where he can reach to thump your chest but not to do any damage to your face.

    In other words if you have a good grip on one wrist, the person can no longer do you serious harm.

    So there is no need to KILL HIM. If you are afraid he will soon free up the arm you are holding, surely the THREAT of shooting him if he does would be enough to make him stop?

    I have nobody handy to prove this theory on.

    Do any of you have relatives around who are prepared to take part in one more test? if so please try with both hands (using your left, trying to hold both right and left on the attacker).

    • Tchoupi and Amsterdam sure started something having a closer look at those videos. Nobody ever started looking that close until those two did. I’ll leave them to comment on this one.

      • Right! I’m spatially challenged, so you know I have no clue unless it is laid out for me. I don’t know if this aligns with tchoupi and amsterdam’s theories lol. But figured another data point would be helpful.

    • Princss6, When it was pointed out by Amsterdam she saw someone in the pool video walking along the back of the hedges I keyed in on it too, but then I told myself my eyes were probably playing tricks on me because I was up for hours looking at the footage. I couldn’t detect a flashlight at any point as there were too many small flashes throughout the video. You could see there was quite a bit of activity from outside headlights by how large the glares. I’m not an expert in this sort of analysis by any means.

    • I think Taaffe is involved. Never thought that until I saw these videos. I think the videos are out of sync, but I’m taking a little break before I look at it with fresh eyes.
      There is some activity around the time, Trayvon is thought to have arrived at the clubhouse. The guy in the video is right that about 7 min. later a lot of activity is taking place, which seems to involve 2 cars.
      At 19:01 and 19:31 two cars are drivng south on ttl as you can see in the pool video
      Then between 22:14 and 22:43 you can see the flashlight in the pool hall video. I know Tchoupi thinks these are headlights, but the angle from which you could possibly see headlights in the pool hall, as you can see in one of Tchoupi’s maps, makes it allmost impossible. Also the event which Tchoupi says is the car making a uturn as can be seen in the pool video, takes place about a 30 sec after the flashlights.

      What it looks like to me, is 2 cars driving by the mail area. A person getting out and looking to find Trayvon. I think this took place between 7:07 pm and 7:09 pm.

      Between 21:30 and 22:56 you can see cars moving past the gameroom. I think these cars are the same ones you see at 19:01 and 19:31. If the videos are out of sync that would mean there is some kind of meet up in front of the clubhouse and then the cars drive down ttl.

      If the videos are in synch, we somehow miss cars driving past the clubhouse to go south on ttl, and the cars we see passing the game room are driving back to the front of the clubhouse after they have stopped in front of the mail area.

      I think it is possible that Taaffe saw Trayvon entering the community, and followed him to the clubhouse. He may have called Zimmerman and given him a description of Trayvon. That may explain why Zimmerman was able to tell the dispatcher Trayvon was wearing a button on his shirt and white tennis shoes, but he describes the pants as either sweatpants or jeans.

      I’m waiting for Zimmerman’s phonerecords and the video at the bank.

      • Amsterdam, for sure I think Taffe or maybe another person tipped ZImm off to seeing Trayvon enter into the cut through. It was just too much of a coincidence that he was driving to the store and happened upon Trayvon within that small frame of time.

        I did key in on the video at the pool again and see what you are saying. It’s possible Zimmerman did get out of his vehicle and wander around there in view of Trayvon who was walking in that general direction, to give an impression he had some sort of authority in the community I hope more evidence at the clubhouse is revealed.

    • Thanks for the video, princss6.

      It is an interesting take on things. Someone here had speculated that two people may have been on the hunt. It was mentioned awhile back, so I’m not sure who. I know NLME had some thoughts on that and even speculated that Frank Taaffe and George Zimmerman used walkie-talkies in their NW ‘patrols’.

    • Thanks Princess6,

      I have reviewed the video and have to point to a mistake his author made, that is that most of vehicles passing by the clubhouse, particularly the ones coming from the north gate will show a similar signal as the one at ~12:09, on all 4 videos he used. If his interpretation is correct, then we had 10s of vehicles parked in front of the clubhouse that night.

      My guess is that the author did not log all light events in order to find the patterns and and make an interpretation (direction of the light event, intensity, speed). He found two events and built his theory.

      I just used (again) my correlation table (@ http://imgur.com/a/bcAII) to verify that his event at 12:09 isn’t any different than others (~29:11 or ~2:50)

      This is at least my interpretation

      • Thanks, tchoupi. I’m leaving the light events to you all. I honestly can’t make head or tails of it and like I said, didn’t know if the author of the video synched with your take…I’m just that clueless. This is all going above my head!

    • The point in time this author claims FT is running from the scene of the crime is suspiciously close to the time Officer Smith arrives. My guess is this author mistook light reflections from the police car for a figure passing by.

      I have a hard time reasoning why FT (or any accomplice) would suddenly run away while GZ and TM were struggling on the ground.

      • I’ve been speculating CB radios or walkie talkies for a bit…especially if Zimmerman’s call logs don’t show any sort of communications before/shortly after the shooting.

        Unfortunately, Zimmerman’s truck (at a known crime scene) was moved by Shellie. Was that done with Sanford PD’s consent? Anybody on the Neighborhood Watch team care to mention the ways everybody communicated?

        This speculation began shortly after realizing Taaffe & Zimmerman are more than just neighbors (I.e. acquaintances) and Trayvon likely walked directly next to FT’s home (to seek temporary refuge from the rain?).

      • That would fit the profile, wouldn’t it?
        Zimmerman’s father was so vague in describing where gz first spotted Trayvon, that I thought they were trying to hide the fact that gz spotted him near Taaffe’s house.
        When I saw the re-enactment and that was not the case, I couldn’t figure out why that part of the story had so many discrepancies. I didn’t realize that the house Zimmerman supposedly spotted Trayvon, was Taaffe’s until I saw the video with notes.
        If Deedee is right and Trayvon arrived at the clubhouse at about the same time as the 6:54 phone call, Zimmerman arrived much later according to the clubhouse videos, And I think he was looking for him.
        The button and the pants never made sense to me. In the audio interview where gz is confronted with the nen call, he says when he hears himself describing the button, “I don’t even remember that”. Same tone of voice as when he said he didn’t recognize his own voice, when confronted with the screams.
        I’m speculating he is caught on the bank video around the time he supposedly first saw Trayvon.

      • @NLME

        “Unfortunately, Zimmerman’s truck (at a known crime scene) was moved by Shellie. Was that done with Sanford PD’s consent?”

        Nope! They originally thought he was on foot the entire time, and by the time they realized he had been in his vehicle prior to getting on foot, the vehicle had been moved. They could not secure it as part of the crime scene. I’m pretty damn sure Shellie immediately came and moved the vehicle after Jon called her. In fact, I don’t know if you heard it (can’t remember if it’s in the reenactment or one of the interviews), but GZ said Shelley was with his friend/their friend Mark (I think that was the name.), and that’s how she was able to come move the vehicle. I always thought that was weird. GZ went to go grocery shopping, but Shelley was home with his friend? What? How many of the men here would do that? How comfortable would you feel with your buddy just chilling with your wife while you were gone?

  50. Many things are possible. What the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt at trial seems to me to be the pertinent issue.

    If Frank Taaffe was involved in any way with the events of the evening, he’s being awfully bold to talk to the media. Not that I would “put it past him,” as they say.

    But again, what can be easily proven in court is that GZ pushed a false narrative about the way he came to arrive at the T intersection or near it, where his lighted keychain flashlight was found. Try to consider what the strongest testimony and evidence the prosecution can present to a jury – and at the top if the list I’d say the “311” call to police dispatch as contrasted to GZ’s statements to police are irrefutable by the defense since they are the defendant’s own words – words that contradict.

    Conspiracy theories abound. What can be proven at trial is what will be presented to GZ at the proper time to see if he wants to come clean about his obvious lies.

    I don’t mean to disparage those who look at these security camera tapes, but try to see how a jury will view them when the defense also gets to comment on what is seen or not seen in them.

    The prosecution is going to push a somewhat loose narrative of their own – that GZ chased the kid down, that the kid was shot, and that GZ is a liar.

    Most of the rest can be debated either way – who screamed, where they started the struggle, who threw the first punch or lunged to detain the other, etc. Each juror can make up their own mind about what happened exactly, but GZ has foolishly told investigators many times without benefit of a lawyer that the only true version is HIS (contradictory) version. If he isn’t seen as credible then EVERYTHING he said comes into question, even the stuff that DID happen the way he says it.

    Most cases end with a plea bargain, not a trial and there’s little reason to see this one as any different at the core. Right now both sides are running a bluff about how they can prevail at trial but when all the discovery is out there it’s going to be even more obvious than it is already that GZ can’t take the stand, and can’t rely on his earlier statements to police since they are contradictory.

    The prosecution is working hard to shield their strategy. But they can’t help but let some thing slip. Is BdlR bluffing when he said yesterday that he had MULTIPLE witnesses to a chase? It’s quite a bluff, and it seems to be that at present they are not offering GZ a deal until he comes and asks for one.

    That’s the time we will hear about any conspiracies, if ever.

    Or, Shellie might flip on him first.

    • “Most cases end with a plea bargain, not a trial,” but few cases have this kind of national attention and political subtext. If Angela Corey tries 12 year olds as adults, why would she offer a plea to GZ? Even if the jury doesn’t go for Murder 2, and comes back with the lesser included charge of Manslaughter, GZ still gets 20 years, due to Florida’s minimum sentence guidelines for cases involving a) minors and b) firearms. The culture wants some kind of narrative closure on this story, and a plea bargain is not likely to suffice. Public frustration is not going to help anyone’s political career.

      • That may be true but if GZ offers to plead guilty to M2 he may get a reduced sentence recommendation. That’s the sort of deal he’s going to have to ask for.

        I agree Corey is motivated to gain a conviction, but a guilty plea is a bird in the hand. The situation at present is that the defense would have to ask for a deal first I think. But the defense is still getting discovery, has yet to learn about witness 4, 7 and 10, BdlR now claimes there are MULTIPLE witnesses to a chase, and there are 30 more jail calls to find out about as well, we learned at the bond hearing. 30 calls to whom? Will GZ’s whole family face charges of some sort eventually? We don’t know, and GZ has to sit in his cell and sweat it out. And his family is left to wonder which among them will cut a deal first to rat the others out – seems possible, at least that this would be on everyone’s mind. I could see a criminal conspiracy charge being threatened against “Ken,” the father, the sister and Shellie if not more folks depending on what is on those jail calls.

        I could also see GZ making bond only to have it revoked once again based on more review of jail calls, or other evidence such as admissions of criminal behavior proven by wiretap, if the initial passport and money issues gave leverage to the prosecution to gain a warrant.

        There are so many ways this goose is already cooked. The anxiety alone has to be taking a toll on GZ to end it all and plead guilty. He knows what happened that night, and he knows he lied about it in some major regard, that much is obvious to us all now.

        I think the money was hidden and the passport was hidden in preparation for a flight from justice. But for the GPS tracking device, he left jail with the means, motive and opportunity to leave the USA with no debts, $155k and more on the way, a valid passport, family overseas and a damn good head start before his accounts would have been seized. What other motive could he have had to hide so much? If the goal was to plead poverty to gain a low bail amount, he needn’t have moved anything from the pay pal account – just stated he lacked access due to being in jail and stated that when he left it there was a nominal amount.

        But it’s the passport that seals it – he had his wife remove the passport from a joint account and put it into HER safe deposit box, and then turn in the soon to expire one to the court. There’s no excuse for that given that they discussed TWO passports on the call. It’s just difficult to prosecute – not difficult to understand.

      • @willisnewton –

        There is no motivation for Corey to do anything in this case based on re-election prospect. She won by default because she had no challenger and this win by default occurred months ago. She’s a hard-a$$, true.

    • I just realized how the State might make their Murder 2 case, proof of “depraved mind”: Zimmerman’s voice stress test. The discrepencies between his statements and the physical evidence are beyond mere confusions. A jury will probably believe them to be knowing falsehoods. And what kind of person can utter a series of knowing falsehoods without showing stress in their voice? Someone with a “depraved mind?”

      • Except the stress test was not during the commission of the crime. I think they have multiple ways to prove “depraved mind” on that night. A shot to the chest when he could have shot in the leg…depraved indifference…hollow point bullets to the chest…depraved indifference. Trayvon screaming for his life…depraved indifference. Trayvon unarmed, depraved indifference.I think his calm state while being examined by EMT and the videos that night and the interviews offer more to prove depraved indiffernce/mind than the voice stress test. That just proves he is a liar. We ALL know that.

      • “…what kind of person can utter a series of …falsehoods without showing stress in their voice? ”

        Someone who believes them to be true?

        Maybe there’s one George Zimmerman who’s the guy with the whiny, sing-songy voice of the phone call recording, and there’s another one who’s the guy on all of the interviews and re-enactments.

        Parallel universe collision?

        unitron

        • Yeah, disregarding everything up until the confrontation (this is impossible to do), I think Zimmerman believes he was “right” in pulling the trigger. Meaning, he wanted to make sure this asshole scuffling with him didn’t get away and knew being “injured” meant he could rely on a “self defense” claim.

      • I don’t belief the stress test is admissable. As a side note, sociopaths are very good in passing lie detector tests. You need to be able to feel remorse or guilt for it to work

  51. Finished the next segment of my ‘deconstruction’ of GZs ‘re-enactment’ video. (Which has now grown from 2 intended parts to 3.) The new installment focuses on how GZ’s account is contradicted by the timeline established by his police call, the first 911 call, and the distances involved.

    Various time issues have been covered here and there, but hopefully this pulls some things together.

    • Whonoze, good timeline explanations and how it doesn’t match up with the NE dispatch call. When I watched the reenactment they do not show Zimmerman being parked and checking out Trayvon at the clubhouse first before he drives over to the top of Twin Trees Lane and parks his vehicle there. I wonder why that first part was not played out in the video unless when further interrogated at a later date he added that part thinking the investigators may have something else on him, such as video footage from the clubhouse.

      • Whonoze, Whoops! I goofed about GZ not mentioning earlier he had parked at the clubhouse. It is shown in the next day reenactment video that NMLE posted above.

    • whonoze, I love your first Notes video, and have been impatiently waiting for the second, so I’m sorry to say that I’m just a wee bit disappointed. I was so hoping that Part II would begin where the first video had ended, at the T just prior to alleged confrontation. In other words, I was hoping for a smooth continuity between videos, and not a recap of a good portion of the first one.

      You work so hard with these videos and at your blog, so I know I’m being downright silly to ask if you could edit Part I to include some of the notes in Part II (23-second countdown, earliest point to end NE call, and time lapse between RVC and the T), and then edit the second video to begin at the T and include your further notes.

      Anyway, this is fantastic work and I’m looking forward to the opportunity to link them in response to one of the TalkLeft posts and see what Jeralyn has to say about them. I’ve been a bit annoyed with her head-in-the-sand attitude regarding inconsistencies.

      • Alas, you can’t revise YouTube vids without replacing them, which means getting a whole new URL and so on. It’s not silly to ask, and I’d do it if it worked with YT, but it doesn’t since you lose all your links.

    • The video is blocked. Is there another place it can be viewed?

      • They run afoul of YouTube’s auto copyright infringement detection, which seems to think commercial broadcasters own the re-enactment. They block the vid pre-emptively, but then i file a Fair Use claim and they unblock it. it should be OK now.

  52. Good video – there are about a hundred things you could add to that, but you’ve hit many of the high points. Notice that GZ claims specifically that he exited his vehicle to look for a street sign, and then contrast that with the 311 call to dispatch. He leaps from the car three seconds after saying “sh*t, He’s running” and then ADMITS he is following the teen, and CONTINUES jogging after saying “okay” to “we don’t need you to do that.” Then at the T, most likely, he stops and works on his flashlight. How is ANY of this consistent with getting out to find a street sign?

    It’s true that running after someone is not an illegal act in and of itself, but why does GZ find it necessary to lie about it? And note how cool and casually he lies about it. What else is he lying about?

    The distance of the body from the T is almost twice what he paces off, and this telling in the video is the ONLY time he doesn’t characterize the struggle as “sucker punched to the ground” in so many words. Here he adds “stumbling” and some girlish slaps as a defensive move. It’s also odd that he “stumbled” in the direction of his alleged attacker. Elsewhere he claims he fell backwards.

    The closest object to the T that police found was GZ’s lighted keychain flashlight, which George does not mention in the video. He had it on. It was found where he claims TM was standing when he first saw him. The second closest object to the T was TM’s 7Eleven bag, some 30 feet south of the T, and this is the closest item to the T that could be tied to TM. In other words, it’s possible TM was never at the top of the T at all, and proof only suggests at most that he was 8-10 south of it. What was GZ doing south of the T if he was returning to(wards) his vehicle? Who closed the gap between the two individuals?

    Most importantly, however is the impossible story of how he moved from north of the clubhouse to the parking space he claims. He’s left out the middle position where he observed TM at the mailboxes, and mischaracterized TM’s walking past his car (on his route home) as “circling /doubling back” and left out what is clearly left unsaid but strongly suggested – a slow motion car to pedestrian chase down TTL that caused TM to panic and run away.

    GZ marked this middle position on a map, but quickly scratched it out right before he told the “doubled back circling” story for the first time to investigator Singleton.

    map and notes here:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/sets/72157630287389764/with/7267266004/

    thanks for posting that video. Keep going!

  53. What about GZ being left handed ,and having a left handed holster,but wears it on his right side. What about that comment GZ made”I don’t know where that kid is”,on the 911 call?

    • Hi Rebecca.
      Right! how he managed to so easily access the right sided holstered gun that would be pointing to the right and would have been upside down when he pulled it out and then righted it up with a good grip on the trigger with his right hand, is one heck of a contortionist move…and laying on his back pinned down at that. Did you see on the reenactment where he tried to explain how he reached over with his left hand to stop Trayvon from reaching the gun, and all the while Zimmerman who claims it was he screaming help for 45 seconds with no break in his voice and this altercation and struggle began only a minute before!? Wasn’t the comment he made about not knowing where the kid is (to non emergency 311) right before giving out his address to dispatch? Hm, he knew for sure at that time Trayvon was a kid and not an adult. I don’t believe for one minute he was walking along the top of the T all the way toward RVC when he said that. In fact I doubt he even went past it but for a couple of feet. All the while when reenacting his tracks he made sure he didn’t let on he put one step south of the T and walked down there. I truly believe Trayvon was down from the top a good 40 feet while on the phone with Dee Dee and it was then he told her he lost the stalker. Here was Trayvon remaining undisclosed feeling safer when Zimm happened to spot him and approached his within seconds after he hung up from the dispatcher. That was when Trayvon said “Why are you following me?”

  54. Good points on your analysis Willis. You indicate where GZ’s key chain and the plastic bag were laying, but where was Trayvon’s phone found at the scene? I would assume the location of the phone would place the altercation beginning there unless Trayvon picked it up at some point before the final struggle. I could see how Zimmerman’s double back circling reenactment was very vague and you could see how he was shifting his words around trying to explain that. If I recall in one of the audio interrogations he says how he doesn’t remember much from the clubhouse up to where he parked at TTL but when explaining how he goes through to the exit at RVC and back to the T and how the struggle began and ended, he goes into a lot of detail. By constantly repeating how he was walking and not running it’s obvious he is trying to avoid letting on he was pursuing and stalking Trayvon from the get go.

    • Thx aussie, I do appreciate you posting the link with well researched info that I hadn’t viewed before. Where the shell casing was laying in proximity to the position of Trays body and the path of the gun shot wound is definitely a part of the crime scene the experts will use as evidence. It’s not shown in the link, but It’s messed up how the iced tea was placed on top of Trays body and how it makes me think how dumb it was to put it there. I was also thinking about the large flashlight and why it was laying close to Trayvon’s body, but the smaller key chained light was not. I wondered which light Zimm was saying didn’t work. If the large one which wasn’t on was in his pocket it would have easily fallen out onto the ground where the struggle began. The same if it was in his hand. The light colored paper bag which I assume held the iced tea and skittles may have fell out of Trayvon’s hoodie pocket or his hand was also laying not too many feet away from his body. His cell phone was found on the ground almost right next to him. Only the small flashlight on the key chain was furthest away. Zimmerman did walk north away from the scene to the top of the T before the police arrived, and since he said his flashlight wouldn’t turn on, lo and behold there was the small one switched on and working at the top of T. Hm, I wonder why he didn’t pick it up? Maybe because it wasn’t there beforehand. It still brings into question why the larger heavier one was much further down from the T entrance. If the scene was about 40 or 5O feet away, it’s an average lot size width and quite a distance south. Of course we know Zimm has been caught in his repeated lies, so it’s hard to trust his story as being the whole truth and nothing but. He says he has not contradicted himself, my ass! In his grand delusions he must think the experts were born yesterday. It says a lot for his course in criminal justice. lol

  55. Willi,

    I’m just back from camping… I couldn’t reply earlier.

    By opposite, I meant that the truck couldn’t be near the window but had to be further away (actually on RVC).
    I understand now your concern that is that the truck looks big in the window.
    Two factors contribute to that:
    1) There are curtains (check re-enactment vid) closing half of each panel of the window. So, what we really get is half of the window.
    2) The camera points toward the front door. The window itself is about 45deg to the right. Therefore, the effective section of the window thru which we can see RVC is ~30% smaller.
    In other words, it is not that the truck is big but that the section is narrow.

    I have added the result of some image processing I performed. It is not that it is great but at least it shows that what appears at the window is closer to a car than it is to a person on the phone.

    I still have to give details about the timing of the videos and the absence of a truck parking in front of the clubhouse.

  56. Zimmerman says he pulled up in front of the clubhouse to call, but is there anywhere in all the interviews and re-enactments where he says exactly where he was at (what I think is) 7:09:34 PM, when we hear dispatcher Sean say “Sanford Police Department, this line is being recorded, this is Sean”?

    There are some indications that when he dialed and when his call actually got through to dispatcher Sean are distinct events separated in time, but nobody seems to specify how much time.

    unitron

    • He says several times “while I was waiting to get through”, both on the reenactment and on the interview tapes.

      On the video he first says he called as they are still driving along, before they pull into the carpark, where the police voice asks “this is where you got out?” and he says he stayed in the truck “I was just making the call”. and then Trayvon appeared behind him.

      He never at any point in ANY interview state EXACTLY anything. It is all “then” and “oh ..back there…: ” and ” earlier” and “then”. Words that can cover 10 seconds or 10 minutes. In Serino Tape 3 he is specifically asked where he was at specific points of the phone call and he “don’t remembers” all of them.

    • Why would he bring up the “While I was trying to get through” part to the non emergency line? When he dialed did the voice recording tell him to hold until the operator could answer his call? He also when questioned could not place where he was when he dialed and spoke with dispatch. He doesn’t remember, things are foggy!? But when he goes into the rest of his story he has the placement of events down pretty pat. Oh sure!

  57. In DeeDee’s statement, we know she says that Trayvon saw some white guy who was on a phone watching him. It’d be crazy if who he really saw was Frank Taaffe. Frank Taaffe being involved is something we’ve all wondered about for a long time. I keep trying to figure out why DeeDee would say Trayvon was cornered. We have the teacher saying she heard voices then a break in between hearing them again. The first time she heard the voices, I think it is most likely that she was hearing TM and GZ going by on their phones. I think what W11 & W20 describe as the voices getting closer indicating they came from the T was actually getting closer because they moved into the grass and the screams got louder. We still have the one witness who said she saw movement from the south to the T then fists. Why did she change her statement? How did she go from there being two figures with one chasing behind the other, and this person was 10-12ft behind the other.

    • While I entertain the speculation that Frank Taaffe was involved, I am not ready to commit to that theory without a witness.

      I also don’t believe George Zimmerman’s story that he was at the doggie path Tee or at the corner of RVC at the end of his non-emergency call. George Zimmerman walked towards the back gate via one of the 3 parallel paths availabe (RVC, doggie path sidewalk behind houses or Twin Trees) then went through a non-paved, grassy, bush-filled cut-through between the buildings to startle and confront Trayvon Martin on whatever path Trayvon Martin was on. Zimmerman chased Traytvon Martin back down the path in a north-bound direction.

      That’s how it went down. All witness thiat said they saw anything prior to hearing the physical confrontation that are not tainted by George Zimmerman’s influencing gave statements that back that up. Murder 2 .

      • Oh, I’m with you for sure on that. I entertain the idea of FT being somehow involved, but I need proof. A witness, a security vid, or some phone texts/calls. I believe GZ went to where he says, but not to look for an address. I think he ran to that point then went down to the south. I think he got out of his truck and started running to the back before TM got to the path at all. He was trying to cut the kid off at the back. I think he got there, didn’t see the kid, so decided to go meet with PD until he heard or saw TM by his dad’s chick’s house then he changed his mind. At the end of that call, he suddenly got distracted again…by something or someone. TM. TM sees him, and starts walking north. How does his 7-11 bag get on the ground? Maybe TM put it in his hoodie knowing he may have to fight. Who the hell knows. I think he stopped and turned to ask GZ why he was being followed. I think GZ lunged causing TM to swing. I think they stumbled to the ground then began wrestling around in the grass.

      • CommonSense

        I agree with your assessment.I am not willing to commit to Laaffe Taaffe’s involvment, unless a witness comes forward, clubhouse videos are enhanced/cleaned up more, OR there’s something in those text/emails that will do them both in.

      • Witnesses who saw anything prior to the beginning of the struggle?

        I thought that consisted solely of Zimmerman and Martin, with the young lady possibly an earwitness?

        unitron

      • @unitron

        DeeDee – Earwitness per phone records and her statement

        The Teacher – Didn’t see anything before the fight, but remembers voices going by her window then later hearing the voices again. She looked out after the fight started. It is uncertain what all she has to say about what she heard/saw that night. I think we’ve determined she lives at the north end, but not in a residence on either side of that path. We do know she was insistent on the young boy being the one who was screaming, even after told it was GZ.

        Bahadoor (Might be spelled incorrectly) – Two witnesses from the same house. I believe they have been placed at the south end of the T. One of the women stated she saw two figures go past her house with one chasing 10-12ft behind the other then she said she saw fists. She later changed her statement to maybe just seeing one figure, and she said she heard a chase more than saw.

  58. try not to laugh but

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/07/02/gzthecouragious-e-mailed-mark-omara-omara-responds/

    and yes they are right, this looks really bad for the defense. hahaha

    lets guess what is going to go down in that meeting, what are those great minds going to discuss with O’Mara that is going to help George…..

    1. Trayvon should have just run home, and George had every right to follow this suspicious character.

    2. Why do they show pictures of a 14 year old Trayvon because a 17 year old Trayvon is big and scary….oh hold on, O’mara already used that one at the bond hearing….

    hmmm, oh and he also used Johns first statement which is another popular line from GZ’s “fans”.

    the only thing i can think of is he wants to keep the mob happy so the funds keep rolling in…otherwise i have no idea why he would even bother humouring them. I mean they are paying his wage.

    • jo

      I don’t make it a habit to visit sites supporting GZ. But what I found comical is the tagline, “gzthecouragious’….HAHAHAHA. I tried not to laugh…

      • hi Tina, i don’t visit them much either unless i am waiting for something such as the bond hearing. Am waiting for Lester to make a decision so they usually have the latest info. But yes i agree…and the fact that they think they need to council the defence just to make sure they got it right. hahaha. How bad can your case be if you have to look to a bunch of racist idiots to make your case. Bad move O’Mara.

    • LOL LOL LOL
      in fact ROFL ROFL

      sorry Jo. That is just so funny. They take themselves so seriously.

    • For those of you who don’t read down far enough, a sample of the advice being generated over there :
      “We should totally have that think tank thingy. As a last card up someone’s sleeve I think it is important to cultivate the temporary insanity defense. I think that the time to enable this defense should be communicated via a secret gesture. Like O’Mara could look at Zimmerman cross eyed and then Zimmerman can then go into a “fugue state” and start screaming about “alien bungle genies” or something equally insane. Should I special deliver that tip to O’Mara’s office? We don’t want to let that gem fall into the wrong hands. Good thing he included his address in his signature. Please feel free to delete this post if it is too top secret.”

      well there is someone who doesn’t know Google has that gem forEVER now.

  59. george talks a lot with his hands and his body language speaks volumes.

    tray is walking toward george and when he looks for cell in wrong pocket tray punches and gz fell, stumbled and/or was pushed down and tray got on top of him at the corner unit.

    the fight moved south near the tree while gz tried to push tray off of him which this part ended near the utility cover.

    gz screamed for help loudly then tray grabbed his head and covered gz’s nose and mouth. gz tries to sit up and push tray away from him towards the south end where gz told dispatcher tray was headed.

    They “then went through a non-paved, grassy, bush-filled cut-through between the buildings to startle and confront tray on whatever path got him closer to the prey. he told the dispatcher tray was heading south and gz headed south towards the back gate too. but maybe gz cut through to RVC, then right, then at first right … “went through a non-paved, grassy, bush-filled cut-through between the buildings to startle and confront tray on whatever path … OR “cut through to doggie path” OR straight down TTL.

    i think gz mentioned going onto that 3rd neighborhood street where he usually walks his dog before heading back towards his vehicle. i’ll re-listen to one of the Singleton/Serino tapes and get back.

    he did startle and confront tray on whatever path tray was on. gz chased tray back down the path in a north-bound direction. agree.

    one could very easily leave “a small portion of his head/brain on concrete when sensibilities are lost ..explosion certain. @ 11:26 of reenactment.

    Swirm and BIG Swirm coming next.

    Afterwards, Sprawled (w#6, MMA guy) & Crawl (the bitch).

  60. Maybe it’s a small thing, but I’m just livid. For MONTHS one of my key questions has been; where did GZ park his truck when he left it to pursue TM? most of us have assumed, on the basis of the police call, that he was parked on the North side of TTL facing West, so he could easily see TM approach the truck from the clubhouse. And the pattern of lights tchoupi has detected on the clubhouse surveillance vids seems to support this. But GZ says he parked on the North side of TTL facing EAST, because TM was already east of the bend to the South on TTL when he got there.

    What has me so annoyed is that somebody has to KNOW! There were a whole lot of cops and civilian witnesses on the scene. A Ridgeline is a big ass truck. More than one person had to have seen it there, noticed where it was and what direction it was pointing. But do we have one definitive eyewitness report? Is there anything in any report that has been released. Not AFAIK! Driving me batty. Can anyone help?

    • This has been driving me bonkers, too! I haven’t heard of a single witness claiming to have seen his truck OR seeing his wife come move the truck. How long after T. Smith arrived before others showed up on scene? GZ, I believe, asked Jon to call his wife right after T. Smith got there. I think she immediately came and moved the truck, but how did she know where it was located? GZ also made some comment somewhere in one of his interviews, I believe, saying his wife was with his friend, and that’s how she was able to drive the vehicle home.

      • I mentioned on Twitter (I think) a few months back that I wish all responding officers (homicides at least) wear helmet cams (or equivalent).

        Regardless, I assume the dash cams for the responding officers will show Zimmeman’s vehicle’s location. Otherwise, there’s no clear reason — especially days after the murder — for the investigators to question Zimmerman so thoroughly on where he was parked.

    • I’ve always hoped that the SPD had cameras in their cars. They would have had to pass the truck going to the crime scene. No such luck, I suppose.

    • That has been driving me crazy too. I’m sure gz followed Trayvon in his car for about 25 sec. You can hear the gear at 1:43 in the nen call. I’ve been assuming gz followed him from near the first bend on ttl going east towards the cut through. But that is not what you see in the clubhouse videos if we assume the videos begin at 6:45 and tchoupi’s analysis that the last car we see going east made a u turn and headed towards the north gate.
      None of the witnesses were asked if they saw the car. Maybe it is on one of the crime scene photos that have not been released yet.

      • Where GZ parked during the call may not be where he left his truck after all.

        As Amsterdam points out, GZ makes some noises between 1:30 & 1:45 of his SPD call. I’ve never been able to identify those noise. However, it happens right at the time TM seems to be walking passed GZ’s truck, and right before GZ says: “These assholes, …”. It is also ~30sec before TM runs.

        I think that it is reasonable to make the assumption that GZ was maneuvering his truck in order to follow TM. This could be what DeeDee tried to convey when she says: “He said he’s walking, and he said this man is still following him, behind the car.”.

      • @nlme you can hear the windshield wipers throughout most of the beginning of the call. But at 1:43 I think what you hear is the gear. Right before that you can hear hIm moving in his car seat. He was either looking behind him or he was backing out his car.

        • I heard some Honda Ridgeline compartments being searched?

          He definitely was being distracted. You’d expect such distraction if Zimmerman was hunting around for stuff inside his truck. Otherwise Zimmerman would have an opportunity to tell the dispatcher that he was following Trayvon by vehicle?

      • @tchoupi
        I was thinking that too just recently. There is gap of about 2 min between the end of the phonecall and when they met up again. He may have been back near his truck when he ended the call.

      • I have been wondering when exactly GZ grabbed the flashlight and gun. He may have had the gun holstered when he left. As noted, GZ can be heard moving quite a bit before TM runs. I think he at this point he may be adjusting in his seat and/or possibly adjusting the position of his car, potentially. After he states TM is running and the door opens, there is a bit of pause before GZ begins to run. I think it’s this point where he grabbed the flashlight and/or gun considering we hear him tapping on it after running, so we know he had the flashlight at that point. Amsterdam mentions GZ possibly being back near his truck when he ends the call, and I have wondered this as well, but I agree it contradicts with DeeDee’s story. In addition, at the end of GZ’s call to non-emergency, he sounds highly distracted once again, which leads me to believe he heard or saw TM. He agreed to meet PD then abruptly changed his mind. Why?

        Although, I do still wonder about the gap in time, and if at some point he did go back to his car for some reason or other. I wonder if he made any calls or stopped at anyone’s residence in the unaccounted for time gap.

        All the questions that linger about this case are fucking my mind.

        Also, *if* in fact his wife came and moved the car immediately upon the call Jon made for GZ, how she get to the vehicle and drive it home? Did anyone see her get out of a car and get into GZ’s and drive it away? GZ said something along the lines of his wife being with his friend/their friend Mark, which is how she was able to drive the car home. IF she came and moved it after the Jon call, GZ left home to go grocery shopping while he had company. Am I the only one who finds that weird as fuck, if that is indeed the case?

        How do W11 and W20 get to the phone to make the call so fast? Why do they call their neighbor John (W6)? I just think they know more. FT stated the photos were taken by a friend, but I thought Jon indicated he did not know either person? I don’t want to go the grand epic conspiracy route, but something just seems off because this shit is not adding up to me.

    • Thanks tchoupi, so the pavement left two neat little cuts from that severe repeated head bashing but no bruising or grazing or redness. The pavement did not cause those cuts, it couldn’t have been blunt force trauma without added bruising, nothing “blunt” only touches the skin in two precise little areas.

      • Amsterdam, GZ supporters are already spinning about how it doesn’t matter, lol. One actually claimed it didn’t matter what Trayvon’s actual height and weight were compared to GZ because TM had “other physical characteristics” that gave him the advantage. When asked by someone what other physical characteristic could have possibly given TM the advantage, the person responded with “being black!” LOL!!!! I think these people really think that TM grew to 10ft tall, 400lbs. SMDH. What a bunch of delusional nut cases. Do they really expect people to believe that the bigger dude with a gun and anger issues just cowered in fear? PFFFFFT. And I’m a conspiracy theorist simply because I think it’s possible FT alerted GZ to TM, but no, totally sane to think this kid turned into the incredible hulk, though.

      • qetno
        It is amazing what some people will say, to put the blame on a kid who just turned 17. It is no use arguing with these people. Zimmerman’s weight was not on the police report when they initially released it. But it was on the police report in the first document dump. Just read the reactions when I pointed that out. http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1092774/46133632
        And this is on the daily kos. I would expect this kind of bullshit on a right wing blog, but not on a liberal blog.

      • I saw on a Youtube comment that there is no x-ray because noses can’t be x-rayed “because they have no bones”.

        At that level of education, it’s not wonder they’re believing what they are.

      • @Amsterdam – I’m not surprised by what happens at dailykos – I was one of the purgees about a year ago. Doesn’t surprise me at all.

  61. i have a question about witness 9. Is the interview with her they mentioned at the bond hearing the one that we have already heard when she called in to give information? Or did they perhaps speak to her again as part of the new investigation by Corey?

    • The one they want sealed is the 2nd statement; we haven’t heard it, yet. Initially, she did not identify herself when she called the PD on the 28th. That recorded part of her call is the one we have now. The one O’Mara wants sealed is the one she made to the state, which goes further in depth about what she said in the call.

  62. In March I was listening to a radio talk show. They played a the tape of Zim when he first approached Trayvon. Zim had not hung up the phone and in the recording you can hear Zim say ” What are you doing here.” You can hear Trayvon say “Get off me”. Not what up homie or do you have a problem. The phone then goes dead. I know I heard it but now I cant find it anywhere. Cover up?

      • You know, I do remember reading that TM initially knocked on the window of GZ’s car to ask why he was being followed, but that GZ denied he was following him. We’ve all heard the non-emergency call a number of times, and that’s not something that is heard on it. This is never in any official statement or report that I’ve seen, either. In fact, I still see comments from GZ supporters claiming TM punched GZ for asking a question, but we know that’s not part of HIS narrative. I’m curious to know where this bit started.

      • Way back, Tracy Martin was quoted as saying the police had told him “what happened”. This included GZ stating that TM had asked him “what are you following me for” and he’d replied “I am not following you” and rolled up his window.

        “Zim had not hung up the phone and in the recording you can hear Zim say ” What are you doing here.” You can hear Trayvon say “Get off me”.”….
        this sounds like a quote from DeeDee’s evidence. Perhaps they made a “re-enactment” of it????

  63. I’m still trying to complete my report about the clubhouse videos (http://imgur.com/a/bcAII).

    I have published 2 new figures recently: 1 showing Officer T. Smith arrival and how it helped putting a time stamp on the traffic histogram, & 1 about the 1st indication GZ never parked in front of the clubhouse.

    • This is an impressive piece of work, tchoupi. Free beer when you come to Sacramento, too.

      The SPD log for GZ’s call that night also shows Officer Smith “ARV” at 19:17:11.

      I have to wonder if the investigators have discovered this same information. One would certainly hope so. But it would be nice to call and see.

      • Milo that would be the time at the gate. They went down TTL and back around before getting to the actual scene.

        Supposed to be in a recent evidence dump, but not yet released to us, is the car-to-car and man-to-car calls between the police at the scene. At least half of the last dump has not been released yet — the more interesting time-lines half.

      • Aussie, I’m just confirming tchoupi’s 19:17 as the time of Officer Smith’s arrival at the gate. That’s what his timing is based on for GZ’s truck movements.

      • Thanks Milo. I actually go on vacation not too far from your place. But, there is no plan for me to go to Sacramento. Drink the free beer and cheer for the wonderful group here at bcclist.

        I knew I had the 7:17:11 from somewhere but couldn’t remember where exactly. Thanks for fixing my memory. I’ll put a comment on that on the figure.

        The first one who can tell me the arrival time of the ambulance, gets a free beer in Portland OR. The timing I set is consistent with emergency pronouncing TM dead at 7:30pm, but it can really be up to 30sec off.

      • I forgot my questions. Who do you think I should contact to pass on the information? Do you have any email?

      • I’m not likely to get to Portland ever…………

        Still, is this what you need, Tchoupi?

        (First evidence dump page 183)
        Sanford Fire Dept unit 38 got the call at 19.21
        Departed station at 19.22

        arrived on scene 19.27 with “lights and sirens”.

        Trayvon called no response 19.30 (they find SPD doing CPR).
        Then treated GZ in back of police car (approx 9.40) and were available (ie finished here) by 19.51.

        I have a great full-colour catch of this truck coming in, at the 37.12 mark on the Front Door clubhouse video.

      • This is great Aussie. Thanks a lot.

        It confirms my time stamping of the histogram is good enough and possibly up to 30sec too much to the right. The time stamp puts the arrival at the north gate of emergence at 7:25:41 which is 1-2min before getting to the crime scene. This must be about the time it took for the ambulance to reach the crime scene (0.5-1min) and for the emergence people to get out of the truck and get by TM’s body (0.5-1min).

    • tchoupi.caillou

      Thank you so much for your hard work in compiling this info and analyzing the clubhouse security footage.

      If you did want to contact someone, I would think you could contact the Sanford, FL SAO. I suppose you could ask if there was a way to contact BDLR who could have an investigator look over your findings. *shrugs* I don’t know how that all works, though.

  64. Aussie found that site:

    http://www.evidencetrail.net/3-the-shell-casing-and-the-body.html

    It is really interesting (thanks Aussie) and it is really worth going through what they show.

    However something troubles me. I have always assumed TM’s body had his feet toward the walkway. I agree with 1) the body making 45deg angle relative to the walkway, and 2) the head in the general direction of the north (this is well documented). However, my views were that his feet were toward the walkway and his head were toward Jeremy’s / Johnathan’s houses.

    On PoliticNation a while back, we had this interview with Tracy Martin where he explains that pix of the crime scene were shown to him and that Trayvon’s body had his feet on the walkway.

    Does anyone have anymore information about that?

    • The crime scene photos where he’s already under the yellow tarp show his feet toward the houses on Twin Trees Lane and therefore I assume his head toward the sidewalk, although the body is on a non 90 degree angle to the length of the sidewalk so that his feet are further south than his head.

      unitron

      • “The male was lying on his stomach with his head oriented in the general direction of north”…. Anthony Raimondo, 2nd officer on the scene and the one to turn Trayvon over and attempt CPR. He’s the one who asked for a plastic bag, and removed the Iced Tea from Trayvon’s pocket.
        The other early responders just say “lying there” with no direction or position.

        Police photos were not taken until well after this. So if there’s any photo of the original position, it’s not surfaced yet. Jonathan took more than one picture, not just GZ’s head, but said he deleted one??? didn’t say what it was.

      • aussie says:
        He’s the one who asked for a plastic bag, and removed the Iced Tea from Trayvon’s pocket.

        Actually, it was female EMT from SFD. It’s either in her, or one of the other EMTs, written statement.

        • from 2nd evidence dump — Raimundo felt tea. he said he did not remove it. Interviewed by Gilbreath on 4/2/12. Raimundo checked pulse & flipped tray are they both did … Ayala saw gunshot wound under button.

          • from 2nd evidence dump — Raimundo felt tea. he said he did not remove it. Interviewed by Gilbreath on 4/2/12. Raimundo checked pulse & flipped tray or they both did … Ayala saw gunshot wound under button.

            smith transported gz; smith asked if only he and rescue had talked to gz. the zim confirmed. my take only. after arrival in interview room, smith uncuffed gz for a restroom break w/ water and kleenex in hand. smith then noticed gz’s wet back and grass on him after. smith then took “possession of weapon” cleared it & place in gunbox.” smith didn’t notice any body fluids or sweat.” smith’s statement includes gz’s conseal weapons permit was in “gz’s wallet.” March 23rd interview. either officer smith took possession on site or at station after gz went to restroom to “wash up.”

            aka technogrl

            • Smith’s very first statement in the original preliminary report that was on the city of Sanford’s website 3 months ago said he saw that Zimmerman’s back was wet and had grass on it right there at the site of the shooting as he was handcuffing him and taking his gun and holster into custody.

              Get the known facts and timeline straight first, then start weaving your conspiracy theory in the spaces left.

              And everybody, learn to tell the difference between calls to the police and calls to 911.

              unitron

      • Thanks guys.

        I got the general orientation of the head right initially as this is well documented.
        We also know the body makes an ~45deg angle with the walkway. The question is which 45deg? The one with the feet toward the walkway or the one with the head toward the walkway?
        Tracy Martin is really clear about the feet being on the walkway.
        Unitron points to the yellow tarp pix and they indeed suggests Tracy got it wrong.
        I changed the witness map (http://imgur.com/a/bcAII) to reflect what the yellow tarp pix show but I have to admit that I’m not 100% sure this is the right way to go.

      • @ aussie

        Johnathan took three pictures on his phone. One of Trayvon. He transferred the pictures from his phone to his computer and deleted the pictures from his phone.

      • Well then princss6, Jonathan is the only one who has a picture of Trayvon after GZ stood up and before the police arrived.

        The prosecution should ask him nicely to give them a copy. They can always recover it fro his phone or computer even if he deleted t.

      • I think Trayvons feet pointed towards Mary Cutchers house. Not sure.

        Mary Cutcher on 3/3/2012

        MC: I didn’t hear any words, like help or No or anything. It just sounded like someone was in trouble or hurting or something.
        We sort of looked at each other and started walking around toward the sliding glass door and that’s when we hear a gunshot – as I open the sliding glass door I see the kid laying on the ground, I saw the guy,( the kids head was away from us) so I couldn’t see like if he was face up or face down at that time. The guy was standing with his feet, one on each side of the kid and bending over him, and at that time I couldn’t tell if maybe he saw someone shoot him and he’s here to help or to check his pulse or, he was doing CPR, but you don’t stand over him like that to do CPR.

      • More,

        Selma asked him two or three times if everything was alright,( he looked back) and he acknowledged us but he didn’t really know what to say, he didn’t know what to do but he continued to stand over the body and he said, “just call the police”, so I then grabbed my phone but she stayed out there, I can’t say what she saw so I said, get in here, (laughs), get in from outside and lock the door. We went upstairs. The guy stood up and walked away, then he walked back over to the body, I can’t remember if he put his hands back on the body or not but that’s when I knew the kid was face down, actually no, that’s when I was still downstairs on the phone with the police and I walked back outside and he was standing up that’s when I noticed the kid was face-down and not moving and that’s when we locked everything up and he was pacing, not really pacing but he would take a couple of steps and like think, then he’d come back over to the body then I saw flashlights coming and the police were coming around the corner.

  65. I have a question about the holster. As we all know, it is impossible for GZ to draw the gun with his right hand because the gun would have been upside down. My question is, is it possible that he could have had the gun holster clipped on the inside of his pants (right side)? If he did that, the butt of the gun would have been to the rear. I’m not a gun owner so I don’t know if that is a viable/smart way to holster a gun.

    • Go find the pictures of both sides of the holster where it looks olive drab instead of black the way it does in the pictures that include the gun.

      The holster goes inside the waistband on his right hand side and the metal spring clip goes over the waistband to hold it in place and the gun’s butt faces toward’s the back, same as if he was wearing a regular gunbelt and holster on the outside.

      unitron

    • Original evidence dump p14

      Officer T Smith
      “Located on the inside of Zimmerman’s waistband, I removed a black Kel Tec 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster”.

      • i put this in the wrong place above.

        smith transported gz; smith asked if only he and rescue had talked to gz. the zim confirmed. after arrival in interview room, smith uncuffed gz for a restroom break w/ water and kleenex in hand. upon gz’s return, smith noticed gz’s wet back and grass on him. smith then took “possession of weapon” cleared it & place in gunbox.” smith didn’t notice any body fluids or sweat on weapon.” … “gz’s also had his conseal weapons permit in his wallet.” March 23rd interview Officer Smith with O’Steen.

        either officer smith took possession on site or at station after gz went to restroom to “wash up.”

        two dumps, two different statements. hmmm.

        • i wouldn’t be surprised if officer smith is the one that taught gz to shoot.

          serino knows his coworker…

          smith, who knows gz’s family history regarding abusive mother. gz’s mentor. hundred forty five calls to who? now “let us” remove the judge… my dad.

          smith is gz’s pal g. now taaffe don’t look so bad.

          aka thankuboyz aka murdershewrote

  66. tchoupi,

    I didn’t see any analysis of the clubhouse videos in the latest evidence dump.

    SAS Tony Rodriguez gathered that video data and took some pictures of his own. His office might be a good place to start an inquiry of your own.

    Florida Dep’t of Law Enforcement, Investigations: 850-410-8300

    Let us know what you find!

    • They can totally verify Tchoupi’s findings by running a car along each route and matching up the light patterns on the test-run videos with the originals. That is good enough to stand up in court.

      Milo I don’t think they looked at them beyond a quick glance to see if Trayvon showed on them. They only put them in the dump because they had them.

  67. tchoupi et al,

    Just got off the phone with the Florida Dep’t of Law Enforcement. Tony Rodgriguez’ supervisor (Tony is out for the week) will have another guy take a look at your website.

    Gave him my contact info and tchoupi’s blog name. If I don’t hear from them I will recontact next week.

  68. I was wondering if anyone has discussed that GZ shows he reached for the gun with his right hand, and the gun was on his right hip, but GZ is left-handed when writing. Also, if he is left-handed, and the holster is on his right, it would be a cross draw-type holster. If he then pulled the gun with his right hand, the gun would have been upside down.
    Last question: has anyone shared some of this detailed analysis with the prosecution?

      • I finally found it, thanks. I also found information on another site that describes it as a right-hand inside-the-waistband holster, and explains that many lefties shoot right-handed because of the ejection of the casing. One question then, is- how DID GZ shoot: left or right? And I’m just left wondering how Trayvon saw an inside-the-waist gun when it was dark and he probably wasn’t looking away from GZ’s face. But I do realize others have already questioned that. I’ll leave it from here just to follow this – the analysis of the clubhouse videos & timing is fascinating.
        I am writing this after having watched GZ say he has no regrets. And he is so unemotional, so flat. I would like to hear what a ‘shrink’ has to say about his demeanor and comments.

    • Hi Lynda

      the investigators have been made aware of the clubhouse lights analysis, which shows when GZ could have been there and on what route.

      The details of the fight and shooting, I am sure the prosecution will get reenacted by actors, to show what parts of it were possible, if any, the way GZ tells it.

  69. THE GUN:
    Synopsis of facts scattered throughout this blog.

    The Kel-Tec comes in left and rght handed versions. The difference is which direction the shell is ejected, ie to othe outside, not the middle of the body, as the shell is hot enough to burn. Choice of shooting hand depends on dominant eye, not dominant hand. The Kel-Tec is a cheaply made light weigh weapon with substantial kick-back if not held firmly.

    The holster can be worn outside the pants, toward the front, giving an across-body draw. This is recommended for using in a seated position. It can be worn inside the pants, more toward the back (on hips) for a same-sided draw.

    GZ is left-handed. But his gun is a right-handed one. He demonstrates shooting with his right hand. He talks of the holster being on his right hip. The police removed his gun and holster from inside his waistband.

    I do not imagine this places the holster or gun on the outside of the body like they have them in Western movies. Those are deep leather holsters on the thigh, carrying the gun pointing down. This is a cheap soft nylon pouch with velcro or clips on it, holding the gun with the stock not much higher than the barrel. The stock would be partly over the waistband.

    Placing it over the hip-bone would be most uncomfortable, as well as requiring the elbow to be bent back and lifted very high to be able to draw. It would be worn in front of the hip-bone with the stock above the bone.

    The fight: this means GZ would not be lying on the gun if on his back in the fight. But this position would mean having to draw from an awkward position with his elbow twisted out to the side (as the ground prevents it from going back). However just a 1/4 turn onto his left side would make a normal draw possible.

    On the other hand, regardless of his jacket position, a holstered gun in this front-hip position would be barely visible to anyone facing him (even in fair light and not being in a close position that might block the view).

    Walkthrough: In this GZ shows TM’s hand going for the gun (using his left hand to demonstrate TM’s) and shows himself drawing with the right hand. This is not possible if he pinched TM’s arm under his right arm-pit as he shows.

    Other versions: both to MO and to Serino he says he “didn’t need his hand anymore” once TM took one hand off his face (to go for the gun with). (This implies he may have been using his hands to try getting TM’s hands off his mouth/nose but he doesn’t actually ever say so). So then he grabbed TM’s hand/wrist with his own free hand and drew with the other.

    To Serino he says he didn’t want to shoot his hand he was holding TM with, so he aimed around his hand. This implies using his left hand to hold TM’s left hand. This means raising the gun in front of his face to clear the arms which are around elbow-level. This position puts the gun close enough to damage his nose when it kicks back.

    To MO he says he “rotated” the gun. This MAY refer to just moving his hand around an obstruction (his other hand + TM’s hand). However it may also mean the gun was wrong way around when he drew it, ie had been holstered for an across-body draw. This would imply a second or two for jiggling it in his palm to get it into a firing position (with TM not trying to prevent this with his other hand, which was free).

    TAKING IT IN TURNS:

    There is never any interaction in any of GZ’s versions. All the while TM is punching, suffocating etc, GZ lies there and does nothing. Suddenly when he he is holding TM’s left hand with his left hand, TM just sits there and waits for him to draw and shoot, without trying to use his (TM’s) right hand to push down GZ’s right arm to the ground.

  70. CARMAX Story. Been a while…
    Wanted to repost the Carmax story. It’s particularly interesting about GZ calling Carmax main office 65 times to report on his boss, coworkers, and give suggestions to improve company. The main office finally told his boss to get rid of him as they had never had so many calls from an employee and felt he was a troublemaker.(ya think–65 calls, yep that fits “trouble ahead profile) They cut his hours rather than directly terminate him. Probably afraid of some legal action from this instigator even though Fl. Is right to work state.

    This work history also highlights his extreme bullying and extreme ability to deny any such behavior with a “poker face”. This coworker said GZ was so good, he felt maybe he had misinterpreted GZ’s constant put downs.

    Hope this isn’t interrupting flow…don’t see numbers any longer. ?

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